Fair point, however, from what i can see at work is that people just start pounding shots earlier than before. I dont think the hour we close bars has much of an effect on consumer consumption.
Furthermore, I also worked in European bars that only closed after the last clients left and I’ve noticed that customers here tend to binge drink more “because theres only X amount of time left”.
Im no law maker, my work experience isnt any per reviewed research as well so IDK...
If it was true that there was no effect on consumption i.e. sales why did you seem to imply your sales were down when you closed at 1am instead of 3am?
Idk, in my place of work i can clearly see the reason. There’s alot of room between the clients and inter-table mingling is limited by this measure i find.
It’s better than no mask wearing at all but in addition the most important mitigation factor for aerosol spread is still a constant stream of fresh air (i.e. large open windows).
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
Transmission was predominantly through aerosols, which would circulate indoors. All of the mask on and off stuff is really nonsense unless the business has really good air circulation and probably an air filtration system, which most don’t. A lot of these rules are pure virtue theater at this point. They should lift them for fully vaccinated people.
All good points apart from lifting rules for vaccinated people. Looking at UK / US spread of Delta variants and how they are re-introducing mask wearing. You can still get infected with Delta and most importantly spread asymptotically even when vaccinated.
my workplace was like "we're following the government guidelines its perfectly safe" meanwhile they couldnt give a scientific source for the mask off/on nonsense. Lots of studies showing people getting infected in rooms even with distancing and masks. Taking them off while sitting 10 feet from someone isn't magically eliminating COVID indoors.
I finally started going back to the gym and it’s frankly gross seeing people touching their masks every two minutes to take them off/put them back on, then touch/handle equipment, then put their mask right back on. I see people get to a machine and take off their mask and put it down on the machine or in a cup holder then back on their face once their done. Yucky. I had pockets the first time I went so kept my mask there but yesterday didn’t have anywhere to stow it so I just kept it on the whole time. Turned my weight lifting sesh into some cardio.
Useless as you say. Was with a friend that was ordering so much at 00 to keep going for as long as he can. Even i was drinking maybe the same amount by reaching 3, now I have to drink that amount before midnight!
I agree completely. This is a dumb rule made by some old ass disconnected person that doesn’t realize that people will simply accelerate their drinking as it moves closer to closing time, whenever that is.
Sitting on a crowded bus sweating my actual face off as I type this. The day the mask mandate is lifted is the day I rejoice. I can't even begin to imagine what retail workers and kitchen staff go through.
Masks are the easiest lowest cheapest effort to mitigate propagation.
Different situation, but California has reinstated mask mandates. It's not going away for a while.
Not true. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/564618-california-cities-are-defying-new-mask-mandate%3Famp
Also it was LA county, not statewide
Or when doing sports indoors in a giant room full of young vaccinated people? Can we...? This shit is dragging on forever summer is halfway done already...
They aren't all young or all vaccinated though.
I do wonder, given the current vaccination rate, if a couple superspreader events would overwhelm the hospital system, or if we're past that.
The fact that they haven’t lifted mask mandates for fully vaccinated people has made me lose all faith in this government. Honestly, this is total nonsense. The people wearing masks 8+ hours a day in this ridiculous heat is just unnecessary torture that drives some imaginary virtue signaling bullshit that some Canadians seem to thrive on.
Anyway, I couldn’t agree more with you. We are all vaccinated, at least with one shot. In a few weeks we will be near 75% with two shots. It’s time to fucking move on. The only thing that is killing our summer is this ridiculous government.
This is 100% the hardest part of it all. There is no on/off switch to the pandemic, and we're all left wondering what is now safe, or reasonable or what isn't. Of course we're sick of it, and of course the government doesn't want another wave.
I'm considering going back to the gym, visited yesterday and it was a little bit scary. "don't worry you can take your mask off at your station" and I was like "rmph, that IS my concern". I am 2x vaccinated ... but if I'm honest, based on thin air (and bro-culture) I'm sure no more than half of gym-goers are vaccinated.
If you are vaccinated, you are safe. That’s how the vaccines work. Yes, you might still catch it, but if you do it would be a very mild, likely asymptomatic case. At a certain point, we have to let people make their own decisions. The people that chose not get vaccinated merely put themselves at risk. Luckily, they are a small minority here in Quebec.
I’ve been astonished in Quebec at how quickly they took away our freedoms, how long they have shut things down, the insane curfew, and now their approach towards de confinement now that we have vaccines. It’s sad. This government is horrific.
Ooooooh I'm going to very strongly disagree with you here. They do not put just themselves at risk, they put all of us at risk.
Choosing not to vaccinate (other than for medical reasons) is not a personal choice. The world came to a screeching halt because of this virus, that choice is a societal choice, not a personal one. The morons who refuse to vaccinate for whatever Koolaid they decided to drink are putting everyone at risk of restarting the pandemic were they to harbor a nasty variant. Even without that, double vax is not 100% effective, nothing is. There is still a slim chance you develop issues, all this because some idiot is convinced Bill Gates is injecting microchips in them, fuck.
And about the lack of freedom, GTFO of here. I can not stand americans bitching and moaning about "muh freedom" when they've never seen what a real authoritarian government does. It's an insult to all those who did live (and often die) through that shit. Fucking snowflake bullshit. Go and chat with Romanians or Chileans who fled their homes in the 80s, and then let's talk about freedom. I'm not saying I agree with everything the government, nor do I consider notoriously brutal regimes as the benchmark, but come on.
The idea that they put us all at risk is overblown. I ultimately agree with you generally, however, and it’s a real shame that some people are not getting vaccinated. But here in Quebec, we have over 80% of eligible people who are vaccinated. That’s really, really high. We will reach herd immunity here, and really the only people that will be at risk are those that are unvaccinated. Yes, the virus can mutate in non vaccinated individuals, but the fact is that the virus will not spread nearly as quickly now because the vaccine rollout has been so good. Needless to say, we are in a great place right now, but the government clearly doesn’t want anyone believing that. Even if the virus goes wild in the 20%, it can’t do much more than that. And those 20% would all have to be in the same place. In essence, we are nearing the finish line very quickly, if we aren’t already there.
The curfew was an absolute restriction upon all of our freedoms. This is not about being American, which I know many Canadians like to bash (it’s built into them so Canada doesn’t have a constant brain drain to the States, which is bigger, has more opportunities, is more diverse, and overall has much better weather). You don’t have to compare our situation to Chile, or whatever—have some nuance. When the gov says you can’t leave your apartment at 8pm or you might get a ticket? That’s authoritarian theater. Seriously, fuck that. I never thought I would see something like that in a first world country that is supposedly “free.” I get that we have to make sacrifices for one another. But some sacrifices go too far, like that curfew that kept going.
Quebec is a weird place. Needless to say.
I will say, we are at the very top of vaccinations, worldwide. The odds of a shit variant coming from "our" unvaccinated is far lower than it coming from ... well pretty much anywhere in the world. But it still is all about risk mitigation, and this is such an easily avoidable risk. It's such a dick move from these people, I can't even.
I 100% hated the curfew, but also I get it. People everywhere were trying to loophole their way out of sanitary instructions, in the middle of a pandemic! And they still are to this day! MFers insisting on having the entire extended family for an arbitrary jesus day, people coming and going in and out of the country, idiots pretending their husband is a dog to go out at night, now assholes getting fraudulent vaccination papers. Blows my mind the lengths people go to to keep their arbitrary routine despite the entire world being in the shits. Just skip your Cayo Coco trip this year Ginette, fuck!
And from that angle, I hate as much as I get the curfew. It obviously was a way to keep people from hanging out and partying, because they (as a group) could not be trusted to do the right thing. Hell, my mom is a (retired) nurse and yet it took some convincing to do Christmas at a safer time! Like ... you know how bad this is, you're talking to your working friends burning out, some astronomical percentage of them just not showing up to work because they can't take it anymore ... and yet "yay let's all get together"?!
Yes, the curfew absolutely was the equivalent of a big ass sledgehammer to drive in a tiny nail, but I hate saying it ... it worked.
(When I said americans I meant north-americans, not US americans. And I stand by that 100%, your ticket reference says it all, sorry man)
edit - also, have an upvote for a nice discussion on such an emotional subject :)
All I can say is that this is really dumb. I don’t think there is a lot of states, if there are link me to an article. The vast majority of the US is mask free, and has been since May 13th. The Quebec gov may never remove them, so long as people remain convinced that the vaccines don’t work. And the Quebec government is all to blame for this mentality, as they have literally not changed a single thing for fully vaccinated individuals. It’s ridiculous.
Announced today:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/cdc-to-reverse-indoor-mask-policy-to-recommend-them-for-fully-vaccinated-people-in-covid-hot-spots.html
https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959d313428d98ab8aa905bbe287ba0
The first article clearly discusses “hot spots.” Quebec isn't a hotspot right now—not even close. The second article has this in the text:
> “What has not changed,” she added, “is the fact that people who are vaccinated have a huge deal of protection from serious illness, from hospitalization and from death.”
Also:
> If all the unvaccinated people were responsible and wore mask indoors, we would not be seeing this surge,” said Dr. Ali Khan, a former CDC disease investigator who now is dean of the University of Nebraska’s College of Public Health.
Put simply, the rise in cases is happening among the unvaccinated. There are spots in the US that have low vaccination rates, and in these places case counts are going up (big surprise, unvaccinated individuals are at risk of covid). Quebec is in an ENTIRELY different situation as we have over 80% with one dose of the vaccine, and 60% with two doses, *fully vaccinated*. For Quebec, that's not poor vaccination uptake, **that's incredible vaccine uptake.**
Simply put, we should not be required to wear masks in Quebec if we are fully vaccinated.
>The fact that they haven’t lifted mask mandates for fully vaccinated people has made me lose all faith in this government. Honestly, this is total nonsense.
This is the dumbest take I've read in this thread. Vaccinated people can still be infected by the virus and spread it. The mask has also never really been for your own safety. It has been said time and time again that wearing the mask is more effective at protecting others around you than protecting you from others.
Also lmao at masks ruining your summer. Another dumb take I won't comment further on.
Never mind the fact that if you lift masks for the fully vaccinated, you’re essentially lifting them for everyone. No one is going to stand outside of the grocery store to check your vaccine passport and then watch to make sure you continue wearing your mask while inside.
Let me get this straight, your take is that we should wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated? Oh okay, that makes a lot of sense (that’s sarcasm in case you missed it). The point is that they should lift masks for fully vaccinated people. Yes you can still get infected. The risks are very low, however. And transmission by fully vaccinated people is also very low. Do you honestly think masks are the answer to this whole situation now that we have vaccines that are readily available? You aren’t apathetic. You’re just pathetic.
You clearly don’t have to wear a mask 8+ hours in ridiculous heat, so maybe you don’t have a good position to make your claims from?
Anyway, go on keeping your mask close to your face, just like a baby doesn’t want to get rid of their diaper.
>Let me get this straight, your take is that we should wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated?
Sure, why not! Who do you think will take care of them when they get sick? Our public healthcare system! Who's paying for that? Us! And I'm guessing you haven't heard about the Delta variant since you don't seem aware that even vaccinated people are getting sick.
>Do you honestly think masks are the answer to this whole situation now that we have vaccines that are readily available?
It is a part of the solution, yes. Everything that helps is good. Vaccines being available doesn't mean the pandemic is suddenly done.
>You clearly don’t have to wear a mask 8+ hours in ridiculous heat, so maybe you don’t have a good position to make your claims from?
Ohhh, so now we're making baseless assumptions (on top of the personal attacks I didn't include). I do work 8h/day with a mask on doing physical labor, so you're wrong. I don't enjoy it, just as much as everyone, but unlike you, I don't mind small sacrifices for the greater good.
Stay selfish, poorly informed and keep insulting people when you're called out for the idiocy you spread. Makes you look good. (that was also sarcasm, in case you didn't know)
First, I think it’s ridiculous to be held hostage by people who choose not to get vaccinated. Our public healthcare system will indeed have to take care of them, and we do indeed pay for it, but it’s not like our taxes are going to go up as they are already ridiculously high. I find it insane that you would rather wear a mask all day because there are idiots out there that refuse to get vaccinated (but luckily, it’s a small amount, less than 20%, so it doesn’t fucking matter in the long run). This type of thinking that you’re advocating is ultimately ridiculous: should we prevent people from riding motorcycles, driving cars, and so forth? You do realize that the greatest stressors on the healthcare system are accidents and old people? Covid is now very stable in the hospitals and will remain like that because….wait for it… we have vaccines! Big surprise, all those decades of scientific research led to an effective solution that **will end this pandemic, even if you keep the doom and gloom perspective**.
Second, you are clearly uninformed when it comes to the Delta variant and how well vaccines work against it. I’ve linked some articles for you so you can educate yourself. While reading them, you may also want to reflect on calling other people idiots. And if you still want to engage with me, link some articles that support your claims, because otherwise you are making baseless claims—i.e., total bullshit. Yes, people are still getting sick, but case counts are no longer going to be the metric, as people are not getting severe symptoms if they are vaccinated. The future is going to be about hospitalizations going up. Put simply, once there is a high enough vaccine rollout, the pandemic is over. Period.
Stop spreading doom. Get vaccinated. Then move on.
[Don’t worry about worry about variants too much in Canada.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-vaccines-variants-covid-19-1.6063282)
[This study, done in Ontario, has shown that even a single dose is greatly effective against the virus and recommends delaying the second dose of vaccine availability is low](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21259420v2)
> Our findings suggest that even a single dose of these 3 vaccines provide substantial protection against these 4 VOCs, and 2 doses likely provide higher protection. Jurisdictions facing vaccine supply constraints might consider delaying second doses to more rapidly achieve greater overall population protection.
>First, I think it’s ridiculous to be held hostage by people who choose not to get vaccinated.
If wearing a mask is comparable to being held hostage for you, I think you should revisit your priorities.
>This type of thinking that you’re advocating is ultimately ridiculous: should we prevent people from riding motorcycles, driving cars, and so forth?
Great whataboutism here. Unless you meant that it's a slippery slope, which is a logical fallacy anyway.
Also an absolutely terrible analogy either way. There is rules regarding safety like wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, a seat belt in a car and so forth. Just like wearing a mask is a safety precaution.
>While reading them, you may also want to reflect on calling other people idiots.
I didn't call you an idiot, but you on the other hand....
>And if you still want to engage with me, link some articles that support your claims, because otherwise you are making baseless claims—i.e., total bullshit.
Your articles actually support my claim... After 1 dose, the efficiency against the Delta variant is only 33%. That's not exactly safe. If you look at the percentages of efficiency, you'd see that a lot of them are around 70-80% even after 2 doses. That's 1 in 5 cases where the vaccines aren't enough. That's still a lot. Also most of these studies haven't been peer reviewed so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
>The future is going to be about hospitalizations going up.
So you agree that it does put more pressure on our system, and everyone working in it which have been burned out by the pandemic.
>Stop spreading doom.
Being careful and preferring to take our time before removing mask mandates isn't spreading doom.
Clearly, you didn’t read the article I posted. Because if you did, you would have seen this:
> **Against Delta, vaccine effectiveness after partial vaccination tended to be lower compared to Alpha for mRNA-1273 (72%**vs. 83%) and BNT162b2 (56% vs. 66%), but was similar to Alpha for ChAdOx1 (67% vs. 64%). **Full vaccination with BNT162b2 increased protection against Delta (87%)** to levels comparable to Alpha (89%) and Beta/Gamma (84%). Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization or death caused by all VOCs was generally higher than for symptomatic infection after partial vaccination for all three vaccines.
I bolded it for you. But in case you couldn’t understand that paragraph, **it says 72% for one dose.** In other words, stop spreading your misinformation bullshit. Epidemiologists were hoping for vaccines that were above 70%. We have them now. Also, there is not much delta in Quebec. So stop your fear mongering nonsense.
Anyway, still waiting on you to post articles to back up your claims.
Edit: Also, for others reading this—peer review is not the end all be all of scientific knowledge. Peer review takes a lot of time. Changes to the pandemic are happening very fast right now due to the rollout of mass vaccines. These studies are the best information we have, until more information comes out. Don’t discredit them solely because they aren’t peer reviewed. If you are concerned about their legitimacy, look up the authors.
>And a single dose of Pfizer and AstraZeneca were each only about 33 per cent effective against delta.
If we're cherry picking statistics here's one from the very articles you posted.
There might not be much delta in Quebec now as you say, but that doesn't mean that it won't get here.
Anyway, still waiting on you to give me a valid reason for removal of mask mandates instead of deflecting and trying your best to make it seem like taking precautions is fear mongering.
There's no debating in good faith with anti-maskers anyway. It's all selfishness deep down.
I don't know why you're trying to start a debate, you're putting words in my mouth and I'm not interested by your debate lord Andy interpretation of what I said. Get a life.
I don’t believe in the governments ability to manage the ongoing situation, they’ve lost all credibility in my book, so basically anything they say is an asterisk until they change their mind and move the goal post yet again.
Yeah, that’s fair. I do not trust this government in any capacity either. Though I think we can be very hopeful more that we have vaccines. Unfortunately, however, this government has done a horrible job of opening things up now that we are becoming vaccinated. They should have eased restrictions for fully vaccinated people a long time ago, but because they haven’t, people don’t believe in the vaccines. So yeah, fuck this government.
Well they say double vaccinated people can still catch it, still need to wear masks and still need to social distance. So yeah it doesnt seem like they work.
**The vaccines are highly effective against coronavirus.**
[This study, done in Ontario, has shown that even a single dose is greatly effective against the virus and recommends delaying the second dose of vaccine availability is low](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21259420v2)
> Our findings suggest that even a single dose of these 3 vaccines provide substantial protection against these 4 VOCs, and 2 doses likely provide higher protection. Jurisdictions facing vaccine supply constraints might consider delaying second doses to more rapidly achieve greater overall population protection.
If you seriously think the vaccines are not working, then yeah, the Québec government has done a really good job of convincing people that they don't work. The gov would benefit tremendously from easing restrictions on people who are fully vaccinated, as this would encourage more people to get vaccinated.
Anyway, the vaccines work, go get them, and let's all move on.
That was my thought as well. I assume the size restrictions were related to the ability to contact trace.
Then again our 7-day average is 59 case/day so maybe they can warrant that since our capabilities are so high from the April wave. Also our vaccination rate is good and still improving. Maybe it is time to show people the reward of doing the right thing as long as we keep vigilant and are ok with returning to more restrictions if things see an uptick.
EDIT: 7 day average of 59 cases/day was from google and seems to be incorrect. From [https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3](https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3) it seems like on July 3rd the cases are 101, 99, 103, 76, 61 (two day gap), 83 which means roughly a 7 day average of 87 cases per day.
Our 7 day average isn't 59 per day unless the government's doing some weird math. The last 7 days, starting with today, are 75, 102, 121, 101, 99, 103, 76.
I just googled 'quebec coronavirus cases' and the last point is July 23, 7 day average is 59, new cases is 101. I'm cool with putting an edit if you got the source.
My source would be the daily press releases from MSSS. Monday's release includes the weekend's declared cases too.
https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3
The data on Google has two days with 0 cases, bringing down the average a lot. It also has some days with higher numbers, but only one day matches up exactly with data from the MSSS. It doesn't provide an actual source but instead gets pretty wishy-washy about where the numbers come from. I wouldn't trust Google's numbers at all. I wouldn't trust Google with anything, actually.
I just think that they’re dragging their feet for as long as possible to continue to use emergency powers… who can actually enforce a limit of 500 people outdoors? It’s nonsense…
It’s damage limitation in case there is a super spreader event. In Europe you’re seeing clubs/bars where 50 cases can be traced back to one night of partying.
It's something we have to live with now. Cases are inevitably going to go up. We just need to hope that vaccines will do their job and prevent hospitalizations/death.
To be fair, the French are angry about everything coming from authority.
If Macron said not to jump off a cliff they'd all jump down shouting "ouell? what about zis? phoque you macron I do what I want"
Attitude that I very much respect lol
I'm French and I totally agree! People think we are pro-Macron if we agree with **one** thing with him. Like the vaccine: if we're vaccinated, that means we love Macron, apparently
Pretty much all martial arts training centers are open, and have been since July 1st (green zone).
Source: am judoka, have been back on the mats for a few weeks now.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but Judo Québec, the governing body of Judo in the province, has a published, official, itemized guide that indicates what is permitted and in what zones. This guide was submitted and approved by the minister of education & sports, Isabelle Charest.
It's kind of hard to imagine what "we aren't supposed to be" means, here, when the actual government is saying otherwise.
[https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21-098-09\_napperon\_loisir-sport-ete2021\_v16.pdf](https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21-098-09_napperon_loisir-sport-ete2021_v16.pdf)
**Edit**: And here's a much more detailed, phased guide that has been published: [https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Guide-de-retour-aux-Judo-en-periode-de-Pandemie-Covid-19\_14\_juillet-2021\_V2.7.pdf](https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Guide-de-retour-aux-Judo-en-periode-de-Pandemie-Covid-19_14_juillet-2021_V2.7.pdf)
In the above guide, according to Judo Québec and the provincial government, we are currently in "Phase 5".
I went by the official guidelines on the quebec website here
https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/progressive-regional-alert-and-intervention-system/level-1-vigilance-green
> As much as possible, physical distancing guidelines must be respected during sports and physical activities. Participants can come into contact or be in close proximity, **if this is done briefly and infrequently.** Adaptations specific to certain sports or physical activities may be required to limit the amount of prolonged contact between participants.
Im gonna go read what you shared though, thanks!
Those are the *general* guidelines for any sport, but each sport within a federation was able to submit their own COVID-specific protocols.
Judo and Boxing both have very well organized federations, and were thus able to create protocols/plans that were accepted pretty quickly. For sports that don't have provincial-level federations, e.g. BJJ, things are a bit more murky, but in reality most combat sports just use the Judo protocols because they've been approved at the relevant levels of government.
Judo is currently in Phase 5, which effectively means everything is about as normal as it can be: once you're on the mats and class starts, it's basically like it was pre-pandemic. I'm willing to bet that in September/October they'll downgrade to phase 4 if we start to see cases rise, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
We try to minimize the number of training partners by establishing some pseudo-training-bubbles, but in reality that's still just a bit of health-theatre, since if I'm heavy breathing in a dojo with mediocre ventilation for two hours with 24 other people, it doesn't really matter if I stick to one training partner or not.
My informal surveying of most people at practice seems to indicate that nearly all are double vaccinated (as am I!), or at least close to being so.
I'm very pro-sanitary measures in general, but yeah, masks while sparring are effectively useless. If I'm dripping sweat into your eyeballs, chances are the mask isn't going to do anything :)
I train out of Shidokan in NDG, even though I live on the other side of the mountain. Very old school Japanese style dojo, with a really deep talent pool of adult practitioners.
Lots of people have dedicated 15+ years of their lives, in 50+ hour weeks preparing for the Olympics. Those people have taught hundreds of students and spent immeasurable effort preparing for an event that they really would only ever get to compete at once or twice, and absolutely zero consideration was made for them with regards to any planning.
Literally, theatre popcorn got more goverment attention than Canadian/quebec athletes in martial arts.
I know of four jiujitsu schools in the city that died during the pandemic because aid wasn't enough when offered alongside zero planning. I'm sure plenty of karate, judo tkd and other places have the same happen.
Not a single person I know who was affected wanted any special considerations and was happy to suffer for the greater good... Nut none of them think they were sufficiently considered during planning
I'm guessing we'll finally know we're out of the woods when the mask mandate is lifted. As a sweaty fat man that's my Valhalla. Until then, keep safe everyone!
People infected with Delta apparently shed 1260 TIMES the virus as compared to Alpha. That’s a multiple factor as compared to Alpha, not a percentage increase.
That's comparing to the original strain that came out of Wuhan at the end of 2019, not the Alpha variant (formerly UK variant). The sample size is also only 62, but it's been long enough since I studied statistics that I'm not qualified to say if that's enough to be significant.
That same article also says Delta is about twice as transmissible as the original which is in line with everything else we've heard. There's nothing really new or alarming here. Combine that with vaccination rates, the type of vaccine used in China (where the study was done) compared to here, and I don't think you can really draw conclusions from that.
Do you know the statistical threshold for studies in order to derive standard distributions? This is technically twice the minimum for this type of study.
I work in a bar and honestly wtf is the difference selling alcohol till 1 or until 3 other than our sales?
People get drunker as the night goes on, more closes contacts, etc..
Fair point, however, from what i can see at work is that people just start pounding shots earlier than before. I dont think the hour we close bars has much of an effect on consumer consumption. Furthermore, I also worked in European bars that only closed after the last clients left and I’ve noticed that customers here tend to binge drink more “because theres only X amount of time left”. Im no law maker, my work experience isnt any per reviewed research as well so IDK...
If it was true that there was no effect on consumption i.e. sales why did you seem to imply your sales were down when you closed at 1am instead of 3am?
binging 10 shots costs much less than having 5-6 cocktails + food.
Get outta here. Logic does not apply. (have an upvote for brain)
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I think so as well, progressive relaxations throughout the month of August.
What about having to wear a mask when standing up and walking but not while sitting. Makes less sense than a monkey's ass.
Idk, in my place of work i can clearly see the reason. There’s alot of room between the clients and inter-table mingling is limited by this measure i find.
It’s better than no mask wearing at all but in addition the most important mitigation factor for aerosol spread is still a constant stream of fresh air (i.e. large open windows). https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
fair enough
Transmission was predominantly through aerosols, which would circulate indoors. All of the mask on and off stuff is really nonsense unless the business has really good air circulation and probably an air filtration system, which most don’t. A lot of these rules are pure virtue theater at this point. They should lift them for fully vaccinated people.
All good points apart from lifting rules for vaccinated people. Looking at UK / US spread of Delta variants and how they are re-introducing mask wearing. You can still get infected with Delta and most importantly spread asymptotically even when vaccinated.
*asymptomatically
my workplace was like "we're following the government guidelines its perfectly safe" meanwhile they couldnt give a scientific source for the mask off/on nonsense. Lots of studies showing people getting infected in rooms even with distancing and masks. Taking them off while sitting 10 feet from someone isn't magically eliminating COVID indoors.
I finally started going back to the gym and it’s frankly gross seeing people touching their masks every two minutes to take them off/put them back on, then touch/handle equipment, then put their mask right back on. I see people get to a machine and take off their mask and put it down on the machine or in a cup holder then back on their face once their done. Yucky. I had pockets the first time I went so kept my mask there but yesterday didn’t have anywhere to stow it so I just kept it on the whole time. Turned my weight lifting sesh into some cardio.
Useless as you say. Was with a friend that was ordering so much at 00 to keep going for as long as he can. Even i was drinking maybe the same amount by reaching 3, now I have to drink that amount before midnight!
You’re proving my point bud
Prohibition era leftovers, 100%. Gotta control that alcohol.
I agree completely. This is a dumb rule made by some old ass disconnected person that doesn’t realize that people will simply accelerate their drinking as it moves closer to closing time, whenever that is.
virtue signaling
Lol which virtue? Selling booze?
No, the dumb rule is designed to show the government is "doing something" aka virtue signal.
Ahhhh sorry I thought it was addressed at me. I agree with you.
It could be to avoid everyone going out to a bar to celebrate laxed restrictions
Can I stop wearing a mask in a 45 degree kitchen yet?
Sitting on a crowded bus sweating my actual face off as I type this. The day the mask mandate is lifted is the day I rejoice. I can't even begin to imagine what retail workers and kitchen staff go through.
Holy fuck I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I am anything but a germaphobe, but I'm considering wearing a mask on the metro and bus forever.
That's like a guy who pounds a case every night saying he's anything but an alcoholic
Yeah, you definitely have sufficient information to make that call. Good thing you're here.
Imagine ce que c'était dans une classe pas de clim par une chaleur de 30°C +, pendant 7h de temps (le masque était obligatoire dehors également)
Masks are the easiest lowest cheapest effort to mitigate propagation. Different situation, but California has reinstated mask mandates. It's not going away for a while.
Not true. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/564618-california-cities-are-defying-new-mask-mandate%3Famp Also it was LA county, not statewide
You're right, I was just going off the top of my head. Thanks for the correction.
Or when doing sports indoors in a giant room full of young vaccinated people? Can we...? This shit is dragging on forever summer is halfway done already...
They aren't all young or all vaccinated though. I do wonder, given the current vaccination rate, if a couple superspreader events would overwhelm the hospital system, or if we're past that.
The fact that they haven’t lifted mask mandates for fully vaccinated people has made me lose all faith in this government. Honestly, this is total nonsense. The people wearing masks 8+ hours a day in this ridiculous heat is just unnecessary torture that drives some imaginary virtue signaling bullshit that some Canadians seem to thrive on. Anyway, I couldn’t agree more with you. We are all vaccinated, at least with one shot. In a few weeks we will be near 75% with two shots. It’s time to fucking move on. The only thing that is killing our summer is this ridiculous government.
This is 100% the hardest part of it all. There is no on/off switch to the pandemic, and we're all left wondering what is now safe, or reasonable or what isn't. Of course we're sick of it, and of course the government doesn't want another wave. I'm considering going back to the gym, visited yesterday and it was a little bit scary. "don't worry you can take your mask off at your station" and I was like "rmph, that IS my concern". I am 2x vaccinated ... but if I'm honest, based on thin air (and bro-culture) I'm sure no more than half of gym-goers are vaccinated.
If you are vaccinated, you are safe. That’s how the vaccines work. Yes, you might still catch it, but if you do it would be a very mild, likely asymptomatic case. At a certain point, we have to let people make their own decisions. The people that chose not get vaccinated merely put themselves at risk. Luckily, they are a small minority here in Quebec. I’ve been astonished in Quebec at how quickly they took away our freedoms, how long they have shut things down, the insane curfew, and now their approach towards de confinement now that we have vaccines. It’s sad. This government is horrific.
Ooooooh I'm going to very strongly disagree with you here. They do not put just themselves at risk, they put all of us at risk. Choosing not to vaccinate (other than for medical reasons) is not a personal choice. The world came to a screeching halt because of this virus, that choice is a societal choice, not a personal one. The morons who refuse to vaccinate for whatever Koolaid they decided to drink are putting everyone at risk of restarting the pandemic were they to harbor a nasty variant. Even without that, double vax is not 100% effective, nothing is. There is still a slim chance you develop issues, all this because some idiot is convinced Bill Gates is injecting microchips in them, fuck. And about the lack of freedom, GTFO of here. I can not stand americans bitching and moaning about "muh freedom" when they've never seen what a real authoritarian government does. It's an insult to all those who did live (and often die) through that shit. Fucking snowflake bullshit. Go and chat with Romanians or Chileans who fled their homes in the 80s, and then let's talk about freedom. I'm not saying I agree with everything the government, nor do I consider notoriously brutal regimes as the benchmark, but come on.
The idea that they put us all at risk is overblown. I ultimately agree with you generally, however, and it’s a real shame that some people are not getting vaccinated. But here in Quebec, we have over 80% of eligible people who are vaccinated. That’s really, really high. We will reach herd immunity here, and really the only people that will be at risk are those that are unvaccinated. Yes, the virus can mutate in non vaccinated individuals, but the fact is that the virus will not spread nearly as quickly now because the vaccine rollout has been so good. Needless to say, we are in a great place right now, but the government clearly doesn’t want anyone believing that. Even if the virus goes wild in the 20%, it can’t do much more than that. And those 20% would all have to be in the same place. In essence, we are nearing the finish line very quickly, if we aren’t already there. The curfew was an absolute restriction upon all of our freedoms. This is not about being American, which I know many Canadians like to bash (it’s built into them so Canada doesn’t have a constant brain drain to the States, which is bigger, has more opportunities, is more diverse, and overall has much better weather). You don’t have to compare our situation to Chile, or whatever—have some nuance. When the gov says you can’t leave your apartment at 8pm or you might get a ticket? That’s authoritarian theater. Seriously, fuck that. I never thought I would see something like that in a first world country that is supposedly “free.” I get that we have to make sacrifices for one another. But some sacrifices go too far, like that curfew that kept going. Quebec is a weird place. Needless to say.
I will say, we are at the very top of vaccinations, worldwide. The odds of a shit variant coming from "our" unvaccinated is far lower than it coming from ... well pretty much anywhere in the world. But it still is all about risk mitigation, and this is such an easily avoidable risk. It's such a dick move from these people, I can't even. I 100% hated the curfew, but also I get it. People everywhere were trying to loophole their way out of sanitary instructions, in the middle of a pandemic! And they still are to this day! MFers insisting on having the entire extended family for an arbitrary jesus day, people coming and going in and out of the country, idiots pretending their husband is a dog to go out at night, now assholes getting fraudulent vaccination papers. Blows my mind the lengths people go to to keep their arbitrary routine despite the entire world being in the shits. Just skip your Cayo Coco trip this year Ginette, fuck! And from that angle, I hate as much as I get the curfew. It obviously was a way to keep people from hanging out and partying, because they (as a group) could not be trusted to do the right thing. Hell, my mom is a (retired) nurse and yet it took some convincing to do Christmas at a safer time! Like ... you know how bad this is, you're talking to your working friends burning out, some astronomical percentage of them just not showing up to work because they can't take it anymore ... and yet "yay let's all get together"?! Yes, the curfew absolutely was the equivalent of a big ass sledgehammer to drive in a tiny nail, but I hate saying it ... it worked. (When I said americans I meant north-americans, not US americans. And I stand by that 100%, your ticket reference says it all, sorry man) edit - also, have an upvote for a nice discussion on such an emotional subject :)
Many states in the US are already bringing back their mask mandates - I don't see it going away any time soon.
All I can say is that this is really dumb. I don’t think there is a lot of states, if there are link me to an article. The vast majority of the US is mask free, and has been since May 13th. The Quebec gov may never remove them, so long as people remain convinced that the vaccines don’t work. And the Quebec government is all to blame for this mentality, as they have literally not changed a single thing for fully vaccinated individuals. It’s ridiculous.
Announced today: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/cdc-to-reverse-indoor-mask-policy-to-recommend-them-for-fully-vaccinated-people-in-covid-hot-spots.html https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959d313428d98ab8aa905bbe287ba0
The first article clearly discusses “hot spots.” Quebec isn't a hotspot right now—not even close. The second article has this in the text: > “What has not changed,” she added, “is the fact that people who are vaccinated have a huge deal of protection from serious illness, from hospitalization and from death.” Also: > If all the unvaccinated people were responsible and wore mask indoors, we would not be seeing this surge,” said Dr. Ali Khan, a former CDC disease investigator who now is dean of the University of Nebraska’s College of Public Health. Put simply, the rise in cases is happening among the unvaccinated. There are spots in the US that have low vaccination rates, and in these places case counts are going up (big surprise, unvaccinated individuals are at risk of covid). Quebec is in an ENTIRELY different situation as we have over 80% with one dose of the vaccine, and 60% with two doses, *fully vaccinated*. For Quebec, that's not poor vaccination uptake, **that's incredible vaccine uptake.** Simply put, we should not be required to wear masks in Quebec if we are fully vaccinated.
>The fact that they haven’t lifted mask mandates for fully vaccinated people has made me lose all faith in this government. Honestly, this is total nonsense. This is the dumbest take I've read in this thread. Vaccinated people can still be infected by the virus and spread it. The mask has also never really been for your own safety. It has been said time and time again that wearing the mask is more effective at protecting others around you than protecting you from others. Also lmao at masks ruining your summer. Another dumb take I won't comment further on.
Never mind the fact that if you lift masks for the fully vaccinated, you’re essentially lifting them for everyone. No one is going to stand outside of the grocery store to check your vaccine passport and then watch to make sure you continue wearing your mask while inside.
Let me get this straight, your take is that we should wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated? Oh okay, that makes a lot of sense (that’s sarcasm in case you missed it). The point is that they should lift masks for fully vaccinated people. Yes you can still get infected. The risks are very low, however. And transmission by fully vaccinated people is also very low. Do you honestly think masks are the answer to this whole situation now that we have vaccines that are readily available? You aren’t apathetic. You’re just pathetic. You clearly don’t have to wear a mask 8+ hours in ridiculous heat, so maybe you don’t have a good position to make your claims from? Anyway, go on keeping your mask close to your face, just like a baby doesn’t want to get rid of their diaper.
>Let me get this straight, your take is that we should wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated? Sure, why not! Who do you think will take care of them when they get sick? Our public healthcare system! Who's paying for that? Us! And I'm guessing you haven't heard about the Delta variant since you don't seem aware that even vaccinated people are getting sick. >Do you honestly think masks are the answer to this whole situation now that we have vaccines that are readily available? It is a part of the solution, yes. Everything that helps is good. Vaccines being available doesn't mean the pandemic is suddenly done. >You clearly don’t have to wear a mask 8+ hours in ridiculous heat, so maybe you don’t have a good position to make your claims from? Ohhh, so now we're making baseless assumptions (on top of the personal attacks I didn't include). I do work 8h/day with a mask on doing physical labor, so you're wrong. I don't enjoy it, just as much as everyone, but unlike you, I don't mind small sacrifices for the greater good. Stay selfish, poorly informed and keep insulting people when you're called out for the idiocy you spread. Makes you look good. (that was also sarcasm, in case you didn't know)
First, I think it’s ridiculous to be held hostage by people who choose not to get vaccinated. Our public healthcare system will indeed have to take care of them, and we do indeed pay for it, but it’s not like our taxes are going to go up as they are already ridiculously high. I find it insane that you would rather wear a mask all day because there are idiots out there that refuse to get vaccinated (but luckily, it’s a small amount, less than 20%, so it doesn’t fucking matter in the long run). This type of thinking that you’re advocating is ultimately ridiculous: should we prevent people from riding motorcycles, driving cars, and so forth? You do realize that the greatest stressors on the healthcare system are accidents and old people? Covid is now very stable in the hospitals and will remain like that because….wait for it… we have vaccines! Big surprise, all those decades of scientific research led to an effective solution that **will end this pandemic, even if you keep the doom and gloom perspective**. Second, you are clearly uninformed when it comes to the Delta variant and how well vaccines work against it. I’ve linked some articles for you so you can educate yourself. While reading them, you may also want to reflect on calling other people idiots. And if you still want to engage with me, link some articles that support your claims, because otherwise you are making baseless claims—i.e., total bullshit. Yes, people are still getting sick, but case counts are no longer going to be the metric, as people are not getting severe symptoms if they are vaccinated. The future is going to be about hospitalizations going up. Put simply, once there is a high enough vaccine rollout, the pandemic is over. Period. Stop spreading doom. Get vaccinated. Then move on. [Don’t worry about worry about variants too much in Canada.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-vaccines-variants-covid-19-1.6063282) [This study, done in Ontario, has shown that even a single dose is greatly effective against the virus and recommends delaying the second dose of vaccine availability is low](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21259420v2) > Our findings suggest that even a single dose of these 3 vaccines provide substantial protection against these 4 VOCs, and 2 doses likely provide higher protection. Jurisdictions facing vaccine supply constraints might consider delaying second doses to more rapidly achieve greater overall population protection.
>First, I think it’s ridiculous to be held hostage by people who choose not to get vaccinated. If wearing a mask is comparable to being held hostage for you, I think you should revisit your priorities. >This type of thinking that you’re advocating is ultimately ridiculous: should we prevent people from riding motorcycles, driving cars, and so forth? Great whataboutism here. Unless you meant that it's a slippery slope, which is a logical fallacy anyway. Also an absolutely terrible analogy either way. There is rules regarding safety like wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, a seat belt in a car and so forth. Just like wearing a mask is a safety precaution. >While reading them, you may also want to reflect on calling other people idiots. I didn't call you an idiot, but you on the other hand.... >And if you still want to engage with me, link some articles that support your claims, because otherwise you are making baseless claims—i.e., total bullshit. Your articles actually support my claim... After 1 dose, the efficiency against the Delta variant is only 33%. That's not exactly safe. If you look at the percentages of efficiency, you'd see that a lot of them are around 70-80% even after 2 doses. That's 1 in 5 cases where the vaccines aren't enough. That's still a lot. Also most of these studies haven't been peer reviewed so it should be taken with a grain of salt. >The future is going to be about hospitalizations going up. So you agree that it does put more pressure on our system, and everyone working in it which have been burned out by the pandemic. >Stop spreading doom. Being careful and preferring to take our time before removing mask mandates isn't spreading doom.
Clearly, you didn’t read the article I posted. Because if you did, you would have seen this: > **Against Delta, vaccine effectiveness after partial vaccination tended to be lower compared to Alpha for mRNA-1273 (72%**vs. 83%) and BNT162b2 (56% vs. 66%), but was similar to Alpha for ChAdOx1 (67% vs. 64%). **Full vaccination with BNT162b2 increased protection against Delta (87%)** to levels comparable to Alpha (89%) and Beta/Gamma (84%). Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization or death caused by all VOCs was generally higher than for symptomatic infection after partial vaccination for all three vaccines. I bolded it for you. But in case you couldn’t understand that paragraph, **it says 72% for one dose.** In other words, stop spreading your misinformation bullshit. Epidemiologists were hoping for vaccines that were above 70%. We have them now. Also, there is not much delta in Quebec. So stop your fear mongering nonsense. Anyway, still waiting on you to post articles to back up your claims. Edit: Also, for others reading this—peer review is not the end all be all of scientific knowledge. Peer review takes a lot of time. Changes to the pandemic are happening very fast right now due to the rollout of mass vaccines. These studies are the best information we have, until more information comes out. Don’t discredit them solely because they aren’t peer reviewed. If you are concerned about their legitimacy, look up the authors.
>And a single dose of Pfizer and AstraZeneca were each only about 33 per cent effective against delta. If we're cherry picking statistics here's one from the very articles you posted. There might not be much delta in Quebec now as you say, but that doesn't mean that it won't get here. Anyway, still waiting on you to give me a valid reason for removal of mask mandates instead of deflecting and trying your best to make it seem like taking precautions is fear mongering. There's no debating in good faith with anti-maskers anyway. It's all selfishness deep down.
So you think we should mask forever then?
No
But you'll mask until an undetermined date and undetermined vaccination level or undetermined case level?
I don't know why you're trying to start a debate, you're putting words in my mouth and I'm not interested by your debate lord Andy interpretation of what I said. Get a life.
I already stopped. I try, but it’s just too hot.
Only to have everything revoked third week of September lol
Why? You don’t think the vaccines work?
I don’t believe in the governments ability to manage the ongoing situation, they’ve lost all credibility in my book, so basically anything they say is an asterisk until they change their mind and move the goal post yet again.
Yeah, that’s fair. I do not trust this government in any capacity either. Though I think we can be very hopeful more that we have vaccines. Unfortunately, however, this government has done a horrible job of opening things up now that we are becoming vaccinated. They should have eased restrictions for fully vaccinated people a long time ago, but because they haven’t, people don’t believe in the vaccines. So yeah, fuck this government.
Well they say double vaccinated people can still catch it, still need to wear masks and still need to social distance. So yeah it doesnt seem like they work.
I can only hope you are being sarcastic.
where am I not making sense?
**The vaccines are highly effective against coronavirus.** [This study, done in Ontario, has shown that even a single dose is greatly effective against the virus and recommends delaying the second dose of vaccine availability is low](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21259420v2) > Our findings suggest that even a single dose of these 3 vaccines provide substantial protection against these 4 VOCs, and 2 doses likely provide higher protection. Jurisdictions facing vaccine supply constraints might consider delaying second doses to more rapidly achieve greater overall population protection. If you seriously think the vaccines are not working, then yeah, the Québec government has done a really good job of convincing people that they don't work. The gov would benefit tremendously from easing restrictions on people who are fully vaccinated, as this would encourage more people to get vaccinated. Anyway, the vaccines work, go get them, and let's all move on.
These capacity restrictions are completely pointless at this point frankly.
That was my thought as well. I assume the size restrictions were related to the ability to contact trace. Then again our 7-day average is 59 case/day so maybe they can warrant that since our capabilities are so high from the April wave. Also our vaccination rate is good and still improving. Maybe it is time to show people the reward of doing the right thing as long as we keep vigilant and are ok with returning to more restrictions if things see an uptick. EDIT: 7 day average of 59 cases/day was from google and seems to be incorrect. From [https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3](https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3) it seems like on July 3rd the cases are 101, 99, 103, 76, 61 (two day gap), 83 which means roughly a 7 day average of 87 cases per day.
Our 7 day average isn't 59 per day unless the government's doing some weird math. The last 7 days, starting with today, are 75, 102, 121, 101, 99, 103, 76.
I just googled 'quebec coronavirus cases' and the last point is July 23, 7 day average is 59, new cases is 101. I'm cool with putting an edit if you got the source.
My source would be the daily press releases from MSSS. Monday's release includes the weekend's declared cases too. https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communiques/?idcat=3
Cool. Edited.
The data on Google has two days with 0 cases, bringing down the average a lot. It also has some days with higher numbers, but only one day matches up exactly with data from the MSSS. It doesn't provide an actual source but instead gets pretty wishy-washy about where the numbers come from. I wouldn't trust Google's numbers at all. I wouldn't trust Google with anything, actually.
I just think that they’re dragging their feet for as long as possible to continue to use emergency powers… who can actually enforce a limit of 500 people outdoors? It’s nonsense…
With ticket sales for outdoor events
It’s damage limitation in case there is a super spreader event. In Europe you’re seeing clubs/bars where 50 cases can be traced back to one night of partying.
It's something we have to live with now. Cases are inevitably going to go up. We just need to hope that vaccines will do their job and prevent hospitalizations/death.
Sure and that would make sense if we had actual contact tracing. But we don’t.
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Check out the UK, they certainly need contact tracing despite their good vaccination rate
Cases in the UK are dropping and their deaths have remained very low throughout the spike.
Yeah, I can't imagine that it makes any difference once you're at 500 people.
so I can try to get tickets to the habs/rangers game in October?
vaccine passport when
They did this in France and antivaxs are mad as hell lmao! They can't eat in a restaurant without a recent Covid check, how sad /s
To be fair, the French are angry about everything coming from authority. If Macron said not to jump off a cliff they'd all jump down shouting "ouell? what about zis? phoque you macron I do what I want" Attitude that I very much respect lol
I'm French and I totally agree! People think we are pro-Macron if we agree with **one** thing with him. Like the vaccine: if we're vaccinated, that means we love Macron, apparently
Went to a gym yesterday and I really wish it was a "vaccinated only" place. Between the indoors, exertion and bro-culture it leaves me uncomfortable.
You know society is messed up when alcohol is so important lol
Does anyone know about what this means for weddings? I’m assuming the 250 people for seated venues doesn’t apply.
still not a peep about martial arts; fucking shame considering a Montreal woman just took a bronze medal in judo at the olympics.
Pretty much all martial arts training centers are open, and have been since July 1st (green zone). Source: am judoka, have been back on the mats for a few weeks now.
I have too, but we both know that we arent supposed to be.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but Judo Québec, the governing body of Judo in the province, has a published, official, itemized guide that indicates what is permitted and in what zones. This guide was submitted and approved by the minister of education & sports, Isabelle Charest. It's kind of hard to imagine what "we aren't supposed to be" means, here, when the actual government is saying otherwise. [https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21-098-09\_napperon\_loisir-sport-ete2021\_v16.pdf](https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/21-098-09_napperon_loisir-sport-ete2021_v16.pdf) **Edit**: And here's a much more detailed, phased guide that has been published: [https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Guide-de-retour-aux-Judo-en-periode-de-Pandemie-Covid-19\_14\_juillet-2021\_V2.7.pdf](https://judo-quebec.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Guide-de-retour-aux-Judo-en-periode-de-Pandemie-Covid-19_14_juillet-2021_V2.7.pdf) In the above guide, according to Judo Québec and the provincial government, we are currently in "Phase 5".
I went by the official guidelines on the quebec website here https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/progressive-regional-alert-and-intervention-system/level-1-vigilance-green > As much as possible, physical distancing guidelines must be respected during sports and physical activities. Participants can come into contact or be in close proximity, **if this is done briefly and infrequently.** Adaptations specific to certain sports or physical activities may be required to limit the amount of prolonged contact between participants. Im gonna go read what you shared though, thanks!
Those are the *general* guidelines for any sport, but each sport within a federation was able to submit their own COVID-specific protocols. Judo and Boxing both have very well organized federations, and were thus able to create protocols/plans that were accepted pretty quickly. For sports that don't have provincial-level federations, e.g. BJJ, things are a bit more murky, but in reality most combat sports just use the Judo protocols because they've been approved at the relevant levels of government.
Thanks for that, you're absolutely right about things being murky :P What phase on the document you shared is the judo federation currently at?
Judo is currently in Phase 5, which effectively means everything is about as normal as it can be: once you're on the mats and class starts, it's basically like it was pre-pandemic. I'm willing to bet that in September/October they'll downgrade to phase 4 if we start to see cases rise, but I'd love to be proven wrong. We try to minimize the number of training partners by establishing some pseudo-training-bubbles, but in reality that's still just a bit of health-theatre, since if I'm heavy breathing in a dojo with mediocre ventilation for two hours with 24 other people, it doesn't really matter if I stick to one training partner or not. My informal surveying of most people at practice seems to indicate that nearly all are double vaccinated (as am I!), or at least close to being so.
Thanks a ton man! There was a moment I tried to train wearing a mask too, but it didnt work, especially with my asthma. what place to you train?
I'm very pro-sanitary measures in general, but yeah, masks while sparring are effectively useless. If I'm dripping sweat into your eyeballs, chances are the mask isn't going to do anything :) I train out of Shidokan in NDG, even though I live on the other side of the mountain. Very old school Japanese style dojo, with a really deep talent pool of adult practitioners.
FWIW, Klimkait's from Ontario but the national judo centre is in Montréal.
fair enough!
What do the Olympics have to do with it?
Lots of people have dedicated 15+ years of their lives, in 50+ hour weeks preparing for the Olympics. Those people have taught hundreds of students and spent immeasurable effort preparing for an event that they really would only ever get to compete at once or twice, and absolutely zero consideration was made for them with regards to any planning. Literally, theatre popcorn got more goverment attention than Canadian/quebec athletes in martial arts. I know of four jiujitsu schools in the city that died during the pandemic because aid wasn't enough when offered alongside zero planning. I'm sure plenty of karate, judo tkd and other places have the same happen. Not a single person I know who was affected wanted any special considerations and was happy to suffer for the greater good... Nut none of them think they were sufficiently considered during planning
Esti qui sont epais… aucun bon sens le fait que le last call est à minuit ou 1am… le monde se regroupent dans des afters. Ca change sweet fuck all
Why is the header in English and the flyer in French? Both would be helpful and reaching out to a larger public, thank you. Y también en Español 😉
Espanol tambien.
I'm guessing we'll finally know we're out of the woods when the mask mandate is lifted. As a sweaty fat man that's my Valhalla. Until then, keep safe everyone!
People infected with Delta apparently shed 1260 TIMES the virus as compared to Alpha. That’s a multiple factor as compared to Alpha, not a percentage increase.
Like the stuff said in here. Not peer reviewed yet but still discouraging. https://www.livescience.com/covid-delta-variant-transmission.html
Yeah gonna need a source for that one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01986-w
That's comparing to the original strain that came out of Wuhan at the end of 2019, not the Alpha variant (formerly UK variant). The sample size is also only 62, but it's been long enough since I studied statistics that I'm not qualified to say if that's enough to be significant. That same article also says Delta is about twice as transmissible as the original which is in line with everything else we've heard. There's nothing really new or alarming here. Combine that with vaccination rates, the type of vaccine used in China (where the study was done) compared to here, and I don't think you can really draw conclusions from that.
Source.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01986-w
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Do you know the statistical threshold for studies in order to derive standard distributions? This is technically twice the minimum for this type of study.
Do I still need to wear a mask?
Forever. The Quebec gov loves them like babies love their diapers.
Poker is coming back wahooo
Assuming this goes into effect at midnight: does that mean bars will be serving until 1am Sunday "morning"?