Because adding huge amounts kinetic energy to stupid tends to hurt innocent people as much as themselves.
We allow people to wave around their deadly vehicles without immediately sending them to jail. Do the same thing in public with a knife or gun and you're certainly going to jail.
Because you can get your license without them, and they cost money.
As a result, many people will look on them as a waste and unnecessary.
Ignore them. End of the day you're the one doing what makes you comfortable and that is literally all that matters.
You can't get one in TX without the course any longer, been that way for years.
It wasn't a requirement when I got my endorsement, but it probably got changed when someone realized that the Texas Department of Public Safety was literally forcing unlicensed riders to break the law by riding their own bikes to the DPS station to take a riding test.
The biggest complaint most people have about it is the fact that it's a requirement for getting a license, but if you're not in a heavily populated area it's hard to get into a class due to limited schedule openings.
Where I'm at, you'd have to drive an hour to get to the class that may have taken months to get into.
> Where I'm at, you'd have to drive an hour to get to the class that may have taken months to get into.
I would not be surprised if schools popped up pretty quickly if there was good money to be made with the classes.
I’m in an urban area with a lot of riders and during the spring and summer classes are booked out at least a month and despite there being many locations, you often still have to travel 30+ minutes to get to them.
Here you don’t technically need the class but you need to pass a test that is only administered by private instructors. You can go just take the test or take the 2 day class which includes the test at the end.
Took me over a year to get into my class. They have maybe half a dozen range locations and don't have courses listed very far in advance. With only 10 or so apots per class, they fill almost instantly. And without knowing when the courses are posted its near impossible to get a spot.
I don't say this often, but Good Guy Texas. Other states should follow suit.
Add that to C-Class licenses too.
Edit: as for distance to classes ... Well yeah. If you decide to live far away from dense civilization that's what you get for everything. Can't complain about small town problems if you choose to live in a small town.
In PA they aren't mandatory but they are free. Although every few years the state changes the contractor who handles them, so some years it can be well organized and easy to get in, other years its a shit show. When I lived in NY it wasn't a requirement either, but it cost like $300 and were hard to find.
Yeah the state did this neat trick during COVID where a single administrator cancelled the entire MSF program with zero oversight. Lost a significant amount of instructors and the program had to limp back to life in 2021 when they reinstated funding.
I'm NJ the course is optional. If you opt to take it, you complete your road test as the last thing you do as part of the course.
The other option is that you get your permit, follow the crazy permit rules to be allowed to practice, and then show up to take your test. You can take the test on any two wheeled motorized vehicle (I'm sure they've added restrictions about ebikes, but scooters were allowed last I checked). Trikes are a separate endorsement.
I got my endorsement in NJ through the class. I hadn't been on a motorcycle before and I couldn't imagine just jumping on one and figuring all that out. I mean, I could have done it I suppose, but this way was so much easier. I never did get a bike. I got busy and life happens. Lol. If I do get a bike I wouldn't hesitate taking the class again to get some experience.
california, not mandatory. i took the class and then i took my dmv written exam and because i’m only 20, i have to hold a permit for 6 months (which will be march 7th). but if i was 21, i could take the dmv written exam and then do a dmv motorcycle course and get a license that way. although i think the class is far more informative and fun than a dmv course
well didnt apply to me. every where i looked and even at the dmv, because i was under 21, i had to hold a permit for 6 months. maybe it’s different in other states
Having taken the MSF might save my life one day, if it hasn't already and I didn't notice it.
Besides, its basically free with the insurance savings. Cycle Gear gives you a 15% coupon too! My course ended up SAVING me money.
Took entry-level class and the one and only guy that fell off the bike, more than once, in the practice sessions was the guy that claimed he had been riding over a year and actually rode his bike to the class.
It’s always the ones who have to overcompensate. Guy in my class said he’d been riding dirt bikes for years and said it was gonna be easy peasy for him to pass. He didn’t.
The two most experienced riders in my class, two fellas with permits and a little time in the saddle, were definitely in the bottom half of class performance that weekend.
Only person to fall was a tiny gal who was unfortunately at a height disadvantage with the bike. Even then it was just a case of the clutch lever slipping out of her hand at 1-3mph. Grabbed brake but had already tipped too far.
Yes, I loved that. The bikes we used had safety cages around them that turned off the bike if we dropped it. Instructors made sure we knew it was ok to drop it, so we’d know how to pick them back up
No it isn't. I said someone who gives bad advice and/or bullies others for being safe dying means there's one less person giving bad advice out there.
I said nothing about anyone deserving to die, just simple arithmetic.
It’s probably a combination of overconfidence and likening their off-road experience to experience riding on the street or maybe they think you can just ride and figure it out. The course is well worth it though. Your learning curve will be shorter and safer
It's called survivor bias. "I did it X way and look how it worked out for me, I've never gone down."
It's also how you get idiot rich people spouting utter nonsense like "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" instead of admitting that most success is just dumb luck.
I grew up riding dirt and now ride both. I have now a few people that think being skilled at one will lead to skill at the other.
I took a fiend of mine who is a track day wizard out to the woods and he was amazed at how physically demanding off road is.
I took a separate friend to a track day and he was scared to get to low in the corners.
Here in the Netherlands you need extensive training. I had about 20 lessons on a motorcycle. Both in a parking lot and on the road. You do three exams: theory, General Vehicle Control and General Traffic Participation. The first one needs to be successful before you can go on to the second one, which also has to be successful before you can go to the third.
I had about 40 hours of guided riding done before I had my license. Very thankful that we have this. Very few idiotic riders on the road that don't know how to ride. We have idiots who DO know how to ride.
Don’t sweat the haters. I have taken the MSF safety course 2X and it was worth every penny! You can never be too good of a rider (plus discounts on insurance are awesome!)!
Discounts on insurance are absolutely awesome! Plus like someone else said, there’s a lot of safer traffic handling methods they teach that you’ll be able to practice and learn before you’re actually in the situation and it’s too late
It helps to tell people about the endurance discount up front. "Bro, it pays for itself. And Cycle Gear gives you a phat coupon. It's just loaning the money out, it comes back."
Also, that post where he says "9yo kids in India how know to ride a motorcycle"? I live in India and we have statistically disproportionately huge road fatalities, considering the numbers of people actually on the roads. So no, I can safely say that most of us here don't know how to ride properly and we could use more classes and more stringent driving tests and enforcement of traffic rules.
TBH I didn't understand the value of rider training until I did it. I only signed up for the insurance discount. Later I learned that the DMV practical test was also a dysfunctional shit show...bullet dodged.
The way I see it now, teaching yourself to ride a bike is on about the same level as teaching yourself to fly an airplane. It might be doable but you're going to miss a lot of important details, and you won't know until you know, and then it's too late. (Also, yes, I'm a student pilot. It adds perspective.)
Training is always good, no matter what. I rode for 25 years (back before M licenses were a thing). Took the MSF and learned some things.
Some of it was riding (slow speed maneuver techniques), learned were I was strong and where I weak. The most important part was learning motorcycle theory, risk mitigation techniques, road tactics, etc. The stuff you can't teach yourself, and won't live long enough to figure it all out yourself.
Yes I love this and this was so hard to explain to some people. 92% of people that have been in a motorcycle accident have reported themselves to be self taught, and it’s because they probably didn’t know about lane positioning or the SPAT and SEE techniques. There’s also so many people who’ll say you should drop your bike in any sort of danger, and it’s frightening.
I sometimes indulge in those YouTube motorcycle crash/near miss compilations. It's incredible how many people there are in the US who ride motorcycles, but have absolutely no clue what they are doing.
Half the crashes are guys who go into corners a bit fast and suddenly forget how to turn. Most of the time, they would have had no problem making the corner if they actually knew how to ride.
I started riding without the class, but I opted to take it later. It made a big difference. I would like to do more classes but they are few and far between in Montana.
This made me laugh out loud in my office. I have a mental picture of someone FAFOing and saying "it can't be that hard to ride a motorcycle..."
Thanks for the LOL!!
I personally didn't take any classes but I'll never dunk on anyone who does. Riding is super fucking dangerous, especially when the majority of riders I see are racing around busy streets with t-shirts and flip flops.
I’ve seen someone in my own neighborhood do that. I’ve got a busy intersection right outside my neighborhood, and was waiting at a stoplight one day to turn left into the neighborhood area. I hear a motorcycle engine behind me and this guy with a t-shirt, shorts, flip flops, and no helmet goes around me and turns without even slowing down right before a big rig entered the intersection. Luckily the trucker wasn’t going too fast, but had they been, I would’ve witnessed the making of ground up human
Most of what I was taught at the MSF course was risk management and accident avoidance. Learning how to ride the motorcycle was less than half the course. Not that there aren’t people who could stand to learn how to take a corner.
The people who say it's a waste of money don't understand it has a ROI. Spend a little now to save more down the road on insurance payments. Even if you're a 'perfect' driver, it's a smart move money wise.
It was through a college. Even that fee was refundable. Who would refund it is beyond me? Other driving courses here are upwards of up to $250+ and even then you still have to take the riding test at the dmv. I guess one thing chicago / Illinois is doing right.
But you have required theory classes and theory test as well as safety classes and stuff right?
We have one practical exam and one theory exam but before those we have R1&R2 which stand for "risk" R1 is a 3h long lesson on the risks of driving and R2 is a practical lesson on how to act and how to handle the bike when accidents do happen. I haven't done it yet for motorcycle but I did it for cars and then we go to a place that is as slippery as ice and just drive around to get a feel of how bad it is to lose controll of the car.
Without these you aren't even allowed to apply for a practical test
Yes, we had a 3 hour long online class for both days before the on-site classes. Instructors talked about lane positioning, as well as general hazard situations and how to deal with them. On site we did swerving, low speed turns, and very fast stops where they actually measured how far we went after we hit the brakes. I wish they did ice situations, but I live in the Bay Area where we don’t even get snow lol
The term "Wild West" still applies to many, if not most, states here.
Take a stupidly easy written test, take a stupidly easy driving test, and boom, you get to drive or ride death machines to your heart's content. Oh, you're required to have some form of insurance as well.
It's FUCKING retarded and responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year.
I ride with a lot of self taught riders. They absolutely suck to ride with. Can’t stay in a lane, can’t keep appropriate distances, constantly cross over the lane dividers, and don’t pass back signals. And when you mention these things to them, they get upset and start talking about how they’ve been riding for 30+ years.
As a note, I was taught by a self taught rider about 20 years ago. Got out of riding and wanted to get back in. My wife would only agree to me buying a bike if I took the riding course at the local HD dealership. I agreed and then learned all of the things I didn’t know that I didn’t know.
The more important question is "why should we care about the opinions of stupid people?"
The Dunning Kruger effect is real. Some people are simply so clueless that they don't even have a clue as to what they don't know.
There are many stupid people, many of those people support the name I don't like....donorcycles!
Don't worry about it, i grew up riding dirt bikes and still fucked my legs up on a street bike at 15 mph.
I did level 1 of the Keith Code California Super Bike school (many years ago). I had been riding for a long time, but it taught me a lot and improved my riding and understanding of cornering physics. I highly recommend a course.
I took my MSF class after riding with a permit for a year or so. I was 21 and a bit of a street Rossi at the time. The skills test was a cakewalk because I loved low speed parking lot drills and they put us on little 125cc bikes. What I did come out of it learning was how to scan my environment and just how vulnerable we are on public streets. It completely changed my mindset and approach to riding. Glad I took the class when I did because I probably would've wound up wrapped around a tree on a twisty country road without it.
Vulnerable is a really good way to put riding in the streets. My dad rides a big ol’ bmw K1200LT, and his best piece of advice is to ride like you’re invisible. Never assume cars know you’re there.
There are people downvoting my comments specifically, and I know cuz they keep fluctuating from 1 vote to 0 and back to 1 every time I check for new comments. Internet haters are persistent
nah they are retarded for that! i’ve never taken one and i’ve been riding for years, but i would NEVER say that a course is stupid! i actually strongly encourage everyone to take the courses available. i bet all those people are beginners on a stolen R1.
It’s always the R1’s. My boyfriend’s friend bought an R1 as his first bike, and he’s like 20. Says it’s fine because he’s been driving since he was a kid. I just sighed and told my bf that I hoped his friend didn’t die, and he agreed
I was chomping at the bit to get registered for my class. It was the best path towards getting my endorsement and surprisingly I learned A LOT in those 2 days.
Well there is a reason a higher percentage of bikere die in certain countries.
It's like thinking you know how to play chess just because you know how to move the pieces.
There is more to riding than pulling the throttle and squeezing the brakes. But hey. It's their lives.
Best $200 I've ever spent.
Zero riding experience on a road bike at that point.
Learned a ton! Got to ride and got my license all in one weekend. Worth every penny imo
I took the class when I was 39 with a variety of people from age 18 to 60. It was not a waste of $180. It was a little frustrating at first when we were idling back and forth though! But after I learned a lot.
I run the full gamut. I'm a boomer with a full dress Harley with a sidecar. I'm also the guy who self taught himself how to ride in 1983 by getting on a 1975 FX chopper I had just bought. First bike I ever rode, and learning that way was not one of the smarter things I have done. BTW, I still have that bike. That is one end of it.
The other end is that in 2000 I became an instructor in the MSF course here in PA. Taught it for six years until my arthritic knees told me I couldn't run around the range any more playing with cones. Had to put the Electra-Foot attachment on the FX as well, kicking wasn't going so good any more.
People have a tendency (and I was one of them) to be reluctant to admit they have things they can learn. By direct observation, I have seen this to be most true among two subsets of motorcycle riders. Younger males in their twenties and older males in their fifities. About every other class I taught had one person who knew more about riding a motorcycle than I did, or thought they did. I had a guy who flat argued with me about countersteering in the classroom for about fifteen minutes. I think he was one of the dirt bike experts.
I learned that you can't fix stupid, but you can help those who want to be helped. And those were the people I spent the most time on. And I would ask myself "If it weren't for this course, how would this person have learned to ride a motorcycle?" And the answer made me glad to be an instructor and giving back.
I met sooo many riders who never took the safety classes AND had no insurance AND didn’t wear helmets! Don’t listen to the haters. And definitely don’t take advice from them.
Because people are stupid.
I never took a class, but that's because I was broke and couldn't afford it at the time. The one place that had them was pretty much booked by the end of March.
It's 30 odd years later, I'm not going to take one at this point. Will never say you shouldn't take one, and have already told a friend that he should be calling them/e-mailing them now to get in. He's a complete novice and has But we all sit and shoot the shit and discuss various things all the time, and keep educating ourselves. If I was going to take one now, it would strictly be for the insurance break I'd get. If they'd give me one after all this time. I only pay 800 bucks a year. (for here that's fairly inexpensive, if I was on a squid bike it's 1500 a year, same policy, smaller engine) .
Getting education and training is never a bad thing.
Safety first 100% and on top of all that, theres definitely a portion of people who think a motorcycle would be cool, ride one and nope out. Thats awesome, better to know that on a closed lot for a few hundred then several grand and in public.
People are stupid af, that's why. I rode for over a decade after learning on my own and then my license lapsed. Instead of waiting the better part of a year to get an appointment for a road test to get my license back I opted to take the MSF class and get my license back in a weekend. And I'll tell you as an experienced rider who then saw what these new people learn that is is actually a valuable experience. I urged my wife to take the class and when my kids are old enough and if they choose to ride I'll do the same for them. It is hands down better than just getting out there and saying "ok, figure out and don't die!"
These comments are all by people that don’t ride a motorcycle. Take their words with a grain of salt and move on. My MSF course was money well spent. The stuff I learned in that course saved my life multiple times
These machines have a way of humbling us.. all in due time. 🙌❤️ Remember that the joy we share riding together is a sacred thing , but the hardest part is knowing that sometimes our friends rides may end before one's own. That is the part of riding they won't be able to teach you in any class.
I saw a video on this, a guy who delivers flowers to his friend’s grave on his bike because they used to ride together. It’s always so sad and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, even the guys clowning on me up there
People are stupid. I took the MSF course when I started, as well as many advanced rider courses and a race school. I’d take another one tomorrow if I could afford it. Anyone who thinks they’re done learning motorcycle riding technique is just ignorant.
Just took my MSF course this weekend and it was one of the most educational and fun things I’ve done in a while. Brand new to motorcycle riding and yeah I could probably have learned on my own but the confidence and skills I gained are gonna help me out on the road way more than if I never took the class. That’s just a fact. Those idiots that shit on bettering yourself are people you wouldn’t wanna ride with anyway.
Squids exist on and off of motorcycles. Think of all the absolute dipshits you've met in life, especially the brash and boisterous ones. Add a motorcycle and you'd have another squid.
Unfortunately adding a motorcycle now means they comment in motorcycle enthusiast spaces.
Disclaimer: I'm using squid in the most literal sense, not the more responsible "I do stupid shit but I do it where I can only hurt myself" crowd.
I did the Harley academy with my brother and it made me feel so much more safe riding. They teach you some pretty important stuff that could save your life. Being cocky can get you killed. Just take a course
When I was in the military, if you wanted to ride a motorcycle on base, it was mandatory to take a course. They offered them for free, so what the hell.
It’s just trolls. Don’t feed them. Learning how to do something by taking a class isn’t a bad thing. And the class really doesn’t teach you how to ride as much as teach you how to handle emergencies and bad situations and teach you how to look out for bad situations
I’ve been riding since I was 9 but I still took one. it took 3 days but cut my insurance rate in half and I got my license way easier than my DMV test would’ve been
I started riding 27 years ago. Up until pandemic times I either took a class every year or found a book with new safety lessons and skills for me to learn on the bike. It's made me a better safer rider and I recommend all riders, new or old, take a training class. Whether its dirt riding, street smarts, or track day lessons I have never met someone who regretted taking a riding course.
I’ve been riding for almost 35 years, I still take classes when I can. Having an impartial observer watch and coach you is always money well spent.
Even the pros practice.
My original reason for taking the MSF because I have no friends who ride to learn from or even practice with. What I ended up learning was how to be a smarter rider and understand proper handling and tune my senses on the road. Worth every penny.
My teacher told me, “the habits you build in this class will transfer into your daily commute and you’ll be able to pick out who’s a biker just by their habits.”
I teach and had a student who had been riding something like 20-25 years dirty finally take the class.
He didn't know he had to actually turn his head and look through a turn. Like, it was a glass shatter moment for him when he finally tried it and suddenly turning was so much more effective/easy.
So yeah, when people say the MSF is stupid or is only for riding safely in a parking lot/under 25mph.. whatever. Their vehicle registration fees are paying for the class for other smarter people anyway.
I’ve known kids that say it’s dumb and crash out the lot. I skipped it cause I’m broke but trained like a mofo in a lot before hitting the streets. Dad is an ex pro mx racer that taught me so I consider that training enough.
10 yr MSF instructor that came up the same way. Off roads great for developing the physical skills but not the mental needed for street riding. Trees never take left hand turns in front of you.
Don't worry, this is a problem solved through natural selection.
There's a reason that you generally don't see many older bikers wearing no gear and doing squid shit (boomers on Harleys being an exception): you don't live that long if you have a cavalier, arrogant know-it-all attitude when you're still learning to ride.
Lol I personally have met some pretty cool boomers on Harley’s and they’re a lot of fun, but even THEY encouraged me NOT to do what they do. My dad has been riding motorcycles longer than I’ve been alive, and still is. I’m glad I have him as a proper guide to this whole lifestyle
Why do you care what people who aren't you and have no dog in the fight of your education think? It's your ass that knows when and where a professional is needed. Be smart.
Well i will admit i initially learned to ride a motorcycle not from MSF and then i took the MSF and they wanted me to change a bunch of habits - which annoyed the shit out of me. Some things they told me were better and some were not. All in all the class wasn’t toooo helpful to just jump right into the street anyways (which is where i was already riding). While i advise everyone takes it, it is also extremely basic and only teaches you to safely drive in a parking lot. To a total noob without access to a motorcycle its the best thing to do and will get you on a bike semi-comfortably in 2 days. I just wish their bikes wernt total broken POS haha, but hey, that means the other people are truly learning from scratch….which is pretty awesome that this service is even offered!
I have to laugh at this, because MA pretty much has the worst state examiners in the fucking universe for both car and motorcycle. They will fail you for existing. Any way to avoid those turd buckets is a miracle.
Depends on your situation really, the guy that started riding dirt bikes as a child probably doesn't need it. Does that mean he should look down on it? Probably not but people are.... people.
Too expensive.
Too long.
Personally I've just watched tons of training videos for free online. Not as good as hands on training I'm sure, but I've saved $350 and 30 hours of my time.
Eh, If you already know basically how to ride a motorcycle all of the riding instruction is redundant. Safety instruction can be helpful but most of it is self explanatory.
When a rider passes a MSF course to only be allowed to go bar hopping on their Harley they ride 5 times a year it can seem a bit much to say a MSF certification means a lot.
It should definitely be more encouraged. I see ads on instagram about it now, but before, I found out from a marine friend of mine who bought a motorcycle like a month out of bootcamp
A couple reasons.
Some folks have experience before considering a course. These folks may not recognize value in course because, “well I’m doing fine and I never took it.”
The other camp is folks who have had a bad course experience, or have read or heard of a bad course experience. Not every course is equal - it’s only as good as the instructors; and there are some douchey and/or poorly prepared instructors out there.
Well, you could self-educate if you want to become good at it. This probably takes more time than a proper one though.
Also, you *have* to self-educate if your "classes" consists of a half-dead 200cc and an instructor who likes to chat and drink tea much more than help you. You get licence with your only acquired skill is how to find a neutral in a sticky clutch bike within a minute. This is reality in third world.
If there is actual good quality education available and you value your time, it's a good idea.
I started riding dirt bikes around 5 years old, street bikes at 15. After I had been riding 10 years I decided to take the motorcycle safety class and it cleaned up my turns and taught me fundamentals I had been doing wrong. After I took the dirt class too and cleaned up my off road riding. I recommend the class to anyone and everyone.
I remember taking the course in high school after my dad saw a figure that showed that like 90% of motorcycle fatalities were riders without that MSF course. And I mean honestly it’s a fun way to spend a week. Had to do it again after getting back from Afghanistan and the first part of the ride day is painfully boring after having some experience. But some of the later maneuvers were still pretty fun.
I don’t think they are stupid. If you show up with the attitude that practice is good no matter what level you are, you will be more successful. Usually the instructors care about people learning basic skills to avoid dangerous situations. I always recommend to anyone who asks me to take the course regardless of their experience level.
I think the “many” people you speak of are letting their ego take over. If they set that aside they might just learn a thing or two.
Because people are dumb and proud, they don't wanna be told what to do and wanna brag that they've ridden all of their lives without the course. Majority of them are the ones who don't actually have a motorcycle license
The biggest thing I learned from my class was.
How to brake better in an emergency.
And if you’re gonna hit a deer. Speed up, duck down, and brace for impact. Hopefully the deer goes over you. Because if you swerve and crash into a pole it’s going to hurt. Verses. Hitting a deer that’ll absorb a lot of the impact since it’s not fixed to the ground. And a better chance of staying upright and drive on like nothing happen. If you’re going fast enough you’ll go right through it. Think straw in an hurricane going through a tree.
Both sides have a small portion that think the other is stupid for making their decision, just do what you think is best for you and ride your own ride
I was riding for like 6 years before I took my course in July in Florida I was very unhappy with the course but I could have just been too hangry to be objective
In germany it takes a lot of time to get the license and at the end of your license the teachers tend to say. now you know how to move a bike but now really how to handle it, take a safety and lean angle class (which helps tremendusly)
Sad to say it but MSF doesn’t really teach you how to ride. They teach some basics of control, but that’s about it. If you want to really learn riding techniques and control, take a dirt track style school that will teach you how to properly ride a motorcycle so that in low traction events you don’t panic and crash. Cornerspin (http://www.cornerspin.com/main.html) or similar, highly recommend.
Taught me more in 2-days than I learned in two *decades* of track days and road racing on asphalt. Also, this training has prevented at least two big crashes for me personally and many others who have gone there have similar stories.
MSF is like daycare. Cornerspin is like university.
I just got back into motorcycle riding after a 20-year hiatus. When my daughter found out that I was buying a new motorcycle she flipped the fuck out. So I decided to take a motorcycle safety course to ease her mind. And then I got to thinking that even though I had gone 8 years with nothing more than spilling my bike that there's a lot I could learn and it could be nothing but positive. I just took my first class tonight.
You can't fix stupid.... Cocky and deceased is cooler.
You can, sadly it's illegal to kill people.
In the US people regularly get away with killing people by hitting them with a car.
How does it help to kill people who think differently?
In this case its no need to kill. Natural selection will do the job.
Because adding huge amounts kinetic energy to stupid tends to hurt innocent people as much as themselves. We allow people to wave around their deadly vehicles without immediately sending them to jail. Do the same thing in public with a knife or gun and you're certainly going to jail.
I think he was using hyperbole.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Better to be dead and cool then alive and uncool
Because you can get your license without them, and they cost money. As a result, many people will look on them as a waste and unnecessary. Ignore them. End of the day you're the one doing what makes you comfortable and that is literally all that matters.
You can't get one in TX without the course any longer, been that way for years. It wasn't a requirement when I got my endorsement, but it probably got changed when someone realized that the Texas Department of Public Safety was literally forcing unlicensed riders to break the law by riding their own bikes to the DPS station to take a riding test. The biggest complaint most people have about it is the fact that it's a requirement for getting a license, but if you're not in a heavily populated area it's hard to get into a class due to limited schedule openings. Where I'm at, you'd have to drive an hour to get to the class that may have taken months to get into.
> Where I'm at, you'd have to drive an hour to get to the class that may have taken months to get into. I would not be surprised if schools popped up pretty quickly if there was good money to be made with the classes.
I’m in an urban area with a lot of riders and during the spring and summer classes are booked out at least a month and despite there being many locations, you often still have to travel 30+ minutes to get to them. Here you don’t technically need the class but you need to pass a test that is only administered by private instructors. You can go just take the test or take the 2 day class which includes the test at the end.
Took me over a year to get into my class. They have maybe half a dozen range locations and don't have courses listed very far in advance. With only 10 or so apots per class, they fill almost instantly. And without knowing when the courses are posted its near impossible to get a spot.
Well that’s crazy. I’ve done 3 class (different skill levels) and there’s usually 20-25 people and classes are held 3x a week.
I don't say this often, but Good Guy Texas. Other states should follow suit. Add that to C-Class licenses too. Edit: as for distance to classes ... Well yeah. If you decide to live far away from dense civilization that's what you get for everything. Can't complain about small town problems if you choose to live in a small town.
Where the hell do you live that you can get a license without a driving class? It's mandatory where I'm from.
In PA they aren't mandatory but they are free. Although every few years the state changes the contractor who handles them, so some years it can be well organized and easy to get in, other years its a shit show. When I lived in NY it wasn't a requirement either, but it cost like $300 and were hard to find.
Yeah the state did this neat trick during COVID where a single administrator cancelled the entire MSF program with zero oversight. Lost a significant amount of instructors and the program had to limp back to life in 2021 when they reinstated funding.
In MS not only is it not mandatory, it’s almost impossible to get into one.
I'm NJ the course is optional. If you opt to take it, you complete your road test as the last thing you do as part of the course. The other option is that you get your permit, follow the crazy permit rules to be allowed to practice, and then show up to take your test. You can take the test on any two wheeled motorized vehicle (I'm sure they've added restrictions about ebikes, but scooters were allowed last I checked). Trikes are a separate endorsement.
I got my endorsement in NJ through the class. I hadn't been on a motorcycle before and I couldn't imagine just jumping on one and figuring all that out. I mean, I could have done it I suppose, but this way was so much easier. I never did get a bike. I got busy and life happens. Lol. If I do get a bike I wouldn't hesitate taking the class again to get some experience.
I got my endorsement that way, and i'd been riding dirtbikes for years. It's just the right way to do it IMHO.
Not mandatory in CA. Though the skills test is purposefully harder than the class so most people just do the class.
california, not mandatory. i took the class and then i took my dmv written exam and because i’m only 20, i have to hold a permit for 6 months (which will be march 7th). but if i was 21, i could take the dmv written exam and then do a dmv motorcycle course and get a license that way. although i think the class is far more informative and fun than a dmv course
Huh? Since when? My understanding is permits-before-license only applies to <18yo's. Edit: huh, 2017 they enacted the new requirement.
well didnt apply to me. every where i looked and even at the dmv, because i was under 21, i had to hold a permit for 6 months. maybe it’s different in other states
You don't have to take the class to get your endorsement in Nebraska and Arizona. (But it's a lot easier if you do)
California. Nothing needed except a test.
Having taken the MSF might save my life one day, if it hasn't already and I didn't notice it. Besides, its basically free with the insurance savings. Cycle Gear gives you a 15% coupon too! My course ended up SAVING me money.
Took entry-level class and the one and only guy that fell off the bike, more than once, in the practice sessions was the guy that claimed he had been riding over a year and actually rode his bike to the class.
I’ve learned that if someone has to lead with how good they are at something, 80% of the time they are actually not *that* good at said thing lol.
The other 20% are massive failures at life with one, not quite redeeming, skill.
It’s always the ones who have to overcompensate. Guy in my class said he’d been riding dirt bikes for years and said it was gonna be easy peasy for him to pass. He didn’t.
The two most experienced riders in my class, two fellas with permits and a little time in the saddle, were definitely in the bottom half of class performance that weekend. Only person to fall was a tiny gal who was unfortunately at a height disadvantage with the bike. Even then it was just a case of the clutch lever slipping out of her hand at 1-3mph. Grabbed brake but had already tipped too far.
I just started riding again after several years. Taking the MSF basic course was worth it just to be able to pratice on someone else's bike first.
Yes, I loved that. The bikes we used had safety cages around them that turned off the bike if we dropped it. Instructors made sure we knew it was ok to drop it, so we’d know how to pick them back up
Knew an asshole who had similar opinions. That guys problems solved themselves. Too bad he left a kid behind though.
What do you mean? Free kid, hardly used. It's a bargain.
Yeeesh, I’m glad my dad’s first accident at 19 was just over an oil spill and nothing life threatening- or I wouldn’t be here lol
And youre happy about that?
One less mouth spouting dangerous advice.
So if someone doesnt take the msf they deserve to die? Wow
That's not at all what I said.
It is what you implied
No it isn't. I said someone who gives bad advice and/or bullies others for being safe dying means there's one less person giving bad advice out there. I said nothing about anyone deserving to die, just simple arithmetic.
No, somebody died and u said one less mouth spewing bad advice
10 - 1 = 9.
It’s probably a combination of overconfidence and likening their off-road experience to experience riding on the street or maybe they think you can just ride and figure it out. The course is well worth it though. Your learning curve will be shorter and safer
It's called survivor bias. "I did it X way and look how it worked out for me, I've never gone down." It's also how you get idiot rich people spouting utter nonsense like "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" instead of admitting that most success is just dumb luck.
Agree
I grew up riding dirt and now ride both. I have now a few people that think being skilled at one will lead to skill at the other. I took a fiend of mine who is a track day wizard out to the woods and he was amazed at how physically demanding off road is. I took a separate friend to a track day and he was scared to get to low in the corners.
Yea each type of riding has its quirks. Even if the physics are the same.
Here in the Netherlands you need extensive training. I had about 20 lessons on a motorcycle. Both in a parking lot and on the road. You do three exams: theory, General Vehicle Control and General Traffic Participation. The first one needs to be successful before you can go on to the second one, which also has to be successful before you can go to the third. I had about 40 hours of guided riding done before I had my license. Very thankful that we have this. Very few idiotic riders on the road that don't know how to ride. We have idiots who DO know how to ride.
Don’t sweat the haters. I have taken the MSF safety course 2X and it was worth every penny! You can never be too good of a rider (plus discounts on insurance are awesome!)!
Discounts on insurance are absolutely awesome! Plus like someone else said, there’s a lot of safer traffic handling methods they teach that you’ll be able to practice and learn before you’re actually in the situation and it’s too late
It helps to tell people about the endurance discount up front. "Bro, it pays for itself. And Cycle Gear gives you a phat coupon. It's just loaning the money out, it comes back."
Internet comments are definitely not “most people”. Half are probably children.
Also, that post where he says "9yo kids in India how know to ride a motorcycle"? I live in India and we have statistically disproportionately huge road fatalities, considering the numbers of people actually on the roads. So no, I can safely say that most of us here don't know how to ride properly and we could use more classes and more stringent driving tests and enforcement of traffic rules.
TBH I didn't understand the value of rider training until I did it. I only signed up for the insurance discount. Later I learned that the DMV practical test was also a dysfunctional shit show...bullet dodged. The way I see it now, teaching yourself to ride a bike is on about the same level as teaching yourself to fly an airplane. It might be doable but you're going to miss a lot of important details, and you won't know until you know, and then it's too late. (Also, yes, I'm a student pilot. It adds perspective.)
I'd rather pay for the class several times over doing the DMV test once.
Training is always good, no matter what. I rode for 25 years (back before M licenses were a thing). Took the MSF and learned some things. Some of it was riding (slow speed maneuver techniques), learned were I was strong and where I weak. The most important part was learning motorcycle theory, risk mitigation techniques, road tactics, etc. The stuff you can't teach yourself, and won't live long enough to figure it all out yourself.
Yes I love this and this was so hard to explain to some people. 92% of people that have been in a motorcycle accident have reported themselves to be self taught, and it’s because they probably didn’t know about lane positioning or the SPAT and SEE techniques. There’s also so many people who’ll say you should drop your bike in any sort of danger, and it’s frightening.
I sometimes indulge in those YouTube motorcycle crash/near miss compilations. It's incredible how many people there are in the US who ride motorcycles, but have absolutely no clue what they are doing. Half the crashes are guys who go into corners a bit fast and suddenly forget how to turn. Most of the time, they would have had no problem making the corner if they actually knew how to ride. I started riding without the class, but I opted to take it later. It made a big difference. I would like to do more classes but they are few and far between in Montana.
Same people that fuck around and find out probably.
This made me laugh out loud in my office. I have a mental picture of someone FAFOing and saying "it can't be that hard to ride a motorcycle..." Thanks for the LOL!!
I wasn’t going to take the class… glad I did.
Another educated brethren in the community, we love to see it
I personally didn't take any classes but I'll never dunk on anyone who does. Riding is super fucking dangerous, especially when the majority of riders I see are racing around busy streets with t-shirts and flip flops.
I’ve seen someone in my own neighborhood do that. I’ve got a busy intersection right outside my neighborhood, and was waiting at a stoplight one day to turn left into the neighborhood area. I hear a motorcycle engine behind me and this guy with a t-shirt, shorts, flip flops, and no helmet goes around me and turns without even slowing down right before a big rig entered the intersection. Luckily the trucker wasn’t going too fast, but had they been, I would’ve witnessed the making of ground up human
Wisdom over ego is a win every time
Most of what I was taught at the MSF course was risk management and accident avoidance. Learning how to ride the motorcycle was less than half the course. Not that there aren’t people who could stand to learn how to take a corner.
That exactly. I feel like these people think the class is just oh “here’s how you pull the throttle durrrr”
I went cause cheaper insurance rates
The people who say it's a waste of money don't understand it has a ROI. Spend a little now to save more down the road on insurance payments. Even if you're a 'perfect' driver, it's a smart move money wise.
I did one here in IL. It cost $25. Super easy and didn’t require me to take a dmv test. Showed my card and it was added to my drivers license.
Oh wow only $25? I live in Cali so what a steal
It was through a college. Even that fee was refundable. Who would refund it is beyond me? Other driving courses here are upwards of up to $250+ and even then you still have to take the riding test at the dmv. I guess one thing chicago / Illinois is doing right.
So the same as CA. That's only a tad less than I paid.
Oh right on! I wasn’t aware CA had that. Was it through a college class as well?
I'm confused. I'm from Sweden and here we don't have an option, you can not get a license without taking driving lessons. You can do that?
In the States, some require it and some don’t. I wish it was required sometimes though
But you have required theory classes and theory test as well as safety classes and stuff right? We have one practical exam and one theory exam but before those we have R1&R2 which stand for "risk" R1 is a 3h long lesson on the risks of driving and R2 is a practical lesson on how to act and how to handle the bike when accidents do happen. I haven't done it yet for motorcycle but I did it for cars and then we go to a place that is as slippery as ice and just drive around to get a feel of how bad it is to lose controll of the car. Without these you aren't even allowed to apply for a practical test
Yes, we had a 3 hour long online class for both days before the on-site classes. Instructors talked about lane positioning, as well as general hazard situations and how to deal with them. On site we did swerving, low speed turns, and very fast stops where they actually measured how far we went after we hit the brakes. I wish they did ice situations, but I live in the Bay Area where we don’t even get snow lol
The term "Wild West" still applies to many, if not most, states here. Take a stupidly easy written test, take a stupidly easy driving test, and boom, you get to drive or ride death machines to your heart's content. Oh, you're required to have some form of insurance as well. It's FUCKING retarded and responsible for tens of thousands of deaths every year.
The cheaper insurance alone is enough reason to take a class. Fuck em and do you boss.
I ride with a lot of self taught riders. They absolutely suck to ride with. Can’t stay in a lane, can’t keep appropriate distances, constantly cross over the lane dividers, and don’t pass back signals. And when you mention these things to them, they get upset and start talking about how they’ve been riding for 30+ years.
As a note, I was taught by a self taught rider about 20 years ago. Got out of riding and wanted to get back in. My wife would only agree to me buying a bike if I took the riding course at the local HD dealership. I agreed and then learned all of the things I didn’t know that I didn’t know.
The more important question is "why should we care about the opinions of stupid people?" The Dunning Kruger effect is real. Some people are simply so clueless that they don't even have a clue as to what they don't know.
I can definitely say taking the safety course saved my ass, especially when I got on a bike I had no business being on. Ride safe everyone
I still think it strange that lessons aren’t mandatory to get your license……..
I did Harley riders academy. Alright course and the driving portion at the RMV is waived. My new endorsement sent right to my house, can’t beat that.
Same! Bikes were heavy tho and I dropped it my first day lol
"RMV." Roost of Motor Vehicles?
This reminds me. In Red Dead Redemption one guy said he didnt belive in education. Probably these guys
Those are the people who will ride like a beginner for ten years, then tell you it's right because they haven't died.
There are many stupid people, many of those people support the name I don't like....donorcycles! Don't worry about it, i grew up riding dirt bikes and still fucked my legs up on a street bike at 15 mph.
I did level 1 of the Keith Code California Super Bike school (many years ago). I had been riding for a long time, but it taught me a lot and improved my riding and understanding of cornering physics. I highly recommend a course.
Why did you chose Keith. Ode. Specifically?
I took my MSF class after riding with a permit for a year or so. I was 21 and a bit of a street Rossi at the time. The skills test was a cakewalk because I loved low speed parking lot drills and they put us on little 125cc bikes. What I did come out of it learning was how to scan my environment and just how vulnerable we are on public streets. It completely changed my mindset and approach to riding. Glad I took the class when I did because I probably would've wound up wrapped around a tree on a twisty country road without it.
Vulnerable is a really good way to put riding in the streets. My dad rides a big ol’ bmw K1200LT, and his best piece of advice is to ride like you’re invisible. Never assume cars know you’re there.
I took the MSF classes and I'm glad I did. I also don't give two fucks what internet people think.
There are people downvoting my comments specifically, and I know cuz they keep fluctuating from 1 vote to 0 and back to 1 every time I check for new comments. Internet haters are persistent
nah they are retarded for that! i’ve never taken one and i’ve been riding for years, but i would NEVER say that a course is stupid! i actually strongly encourage everyone to take the courses available. i bet all those people are beginners on a stolen R1.
It’s always the R1’s. My boyfriend’s friend bought an R1 as his first bike, and he’s like 20. Says it’s fine because he’s been driving since he was a kid. I just sighed and told my bf that I hoped his friend didn’t die, and he agreed
it is always the r1s. the YZF line are almost just “hypebeast” bikes
I was chomping at the bit to get registered for my class. It was the best path towards getting my endorsement and surprisingly I learned A LOT in those 2 days.
Well there is a reason a higher percentage of bikere die in certain countries. It's like thinking you know how to play chess just because you know how to move the pieces. There is more to riding than pulling the throttle and squeezing the brakes. But hey. It's their lives.
I bet the same dudes clowning on you for taking a class hover both feet above the ground anytime they do less than 10 mph.
Best $200 I've ever spent. Zero riding experience on a road bike at that point. Learned a ton! Got to ride and got my license all in one weekend. Worth every penny imo
Darn, has to wait 6 months for mine cuz I’m not 21, but all the learning was def worth it
I took the class when I was 39 with a variety of people from age 18 to 60. It was not a waste of $180. It was a little frustrating at first when we were idling back and forth though! But after I learned a lot.
I run the full gamut. I'm a boomer with a full dress Harley with a sidecar. I'm also the guy who self taught himself how to ride in 1983 by getting on a 1975 FX chopper I had just bought. First bike I ever rode, and learning that way was not one of the smarter things I have done. BTW, I still have that bike. That is one end of it. The other end is that in 2000 I became an instructor in the MSF course here in PA. Taught it for six years until my arthritic knees told me I couldn't run around the range any more playing with cones. Had to put the Electra-Foot attachment on the FX as well, kicking wasn't going so good any more. People have a tendency (and I was one of them) to be reluctant to admit they have things they can learn. By direct observation, I have seen this to be most true among two subsets of motorcycle riders. Younger males in their twenties and older males in their fifities. About every other class I taught had one person who knew more about riding a motorcycle than I did, or thought they did. I had a guy who flat argued with me about countersteering in the classroom for about fifteen minutes. I think he was one of the dirt bike experts. I learned that you can't fix stupid, but you can help those who want to be helped. And those were the people I spent the most time on. And I would ask myself "If it weren't for this course, how would this person have learned to ride a motorcycle?" And the answer made me glad to be an instructor and giving back.
I met sooo many riders who never took the safety classes AND had no insurance AND didn’t wear helmets! Don’t listen to the haters. And definitely don’t take advice from them.
No helmets either? Very much Natural Selection
These are the same people you’ll hear later in life talking about the time they “had to lay it down.”
The ollll lay’er down lmao
The truthful but impolite answer is that these men are immature cowards.
No bro. Stupid people think Motorcycle Safety Courses are stupid.
Tell me you don't pay for your own insurance without telling me you don't pay for your own insurance.
Because people are stupid. I never took a class, but that's because I was broke and couldn't afford it at the time. The one place that had them was pretty much booked by the end of March. It's 30 odd years later, I'm not going to take one at this point. Will never say you shouldn't take one, and have already told a friend that he should be calling them/e-mailing them now to get in. He's a complete novice and has But we all sit and shoot the shit and discuss various things all the time, and keep educating ourselves. If I was going to take one now, it would strictly be for the insurance break I'd get. If they'd give me one after all this time. I only pay 800 bucks a year. (for here that's fairly inexpensive, if I was on a squid bike it's 1500 a year, same policy, smaller engine) . Getting education and training is never a bad thing.
Safety first 100% and on top of all that, theres definitely a portion of people who think a motorcycle would be cool, ride one and nope out. Thats awesome, better to know that on a closed lot for a few hundred then several grand and in public.
People are stupid af, that's why. I rode for over a decade after learning on my own and then my license lapsed. Instead of waiting the better part of a year to get an appointment for a road test to get my license back I opted to take the MSF class and get my license back in a weekend. And I'll tell you as an experienced rider who then saw what these new people learn that is is actually a valuable experience. I urged my wife to take the class and when my kids are old enough and if they choose to ride I'll do the same for them. It is hands down better than just getting out there and saying "ok, figure out and don't die!"
My dad is the kind of person to be like “you’re an adult, figure it out”, but even his first suggestion was to take a class first
These comments are all by people that don’t ride a motorcycle. Take their words with a grain of salt and move on. My MSF course was money well spent. The stuff I learned in that course saved my life multiple times
These machines have a way of humbling us.. all in due time. 🙌❤️ Remember that the joy we share riding together is a sacred thing , but the hardest part is knowing that sometimes our friends rides may end before one's own. That is the part of riding they won't be able to teach you in any class.
I saw a video on this, a guy who delivers flowers to his friend’s grave on his bike because they used to ride together. It’s always so sad and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, even the guys clowning on me up there
People are stupid. I took the MSF course when I started, as well as many advanced rider courses and a race school. I’d take another one tomorrow if I could afford it. Anyone who thinks they’re done learning motorcycle riding technique is just ignorant.
Just took my MSF course this weekend and it was one of the most educational and fun things I’ve done in a while. Brand new to motorcycle riding and yeah I could probably have learned on my own but the confidence and skills I gained are gonna help me out on the road way more than if I never took the class. That’s just a fact. Those idiots that shit on bettering yourself are people you wouldn’t wanna ride with anyway.
Squids exist on and off of motorcycles. Think of all the absolute dipshits you've met in life, especially the brash and boisterous ones. Add a motorcycle and you'd have another squid. Unfortunately adding a motorcycle now means they comment in motorcycle enthusiast spaces. Disclaimer: I'm using squid in the most literal sense, not the more responsible "I do stupid shit but I do it where I can only hurt myself" crowd.
I called a squid a squid once, didn’t even know what it meant
I did the Harley academy with my brother and it made me feel so much more safe riding. They teach you some pretty important stuff that could save your life. Being cocky can get you killed. Just take a course
When I was in the military, if you wanted to ride a motorcycle on base, it was mandatory to take a course. They offered them for free, so what the hell.
natural selection
It’s just trolls. Don’t feed them. Learning how to do something by taking a class isn’t a bad thing. And the class really doesn’t teach you how to ride as much as teach you how to handle emergencies and bad situations and teach you how to look out for bad situations
I’ve been riding since I was 9 but I still took one. it took 3 days but cut my insurance rate in half and I got my license way easier than my DMV test would’ve been
I started riding 27 years ago. Up until pandemic times I either took a class every year or found a book with new safety lessons and skills for me to learn on the bike. It's made me a better safer rider and I recommend all riders, new or old, take a training class. Whether its dirt riding, street smarts, or track day lessons I have never met someone who regretted taking a riding course.
I’ve been riding for almost 35 years, I still take classes when I can. Having an impartial observer watch and coach you is always money well spent. Even the pros practice.
Right? Lightning McQueen didn’t get better till he met Doc🙄
I also have watched A Twist Of The Wrist about a thousand times lol.
I learned so much from my safety course. These are the same people who would protest seatbelts back in the 70s/80s. Darwin awards are real haha
First I’m hearing this . Everyone one In my group took the course .
My original reason for taking the MSF because I have no friends who ride to learn from or even practice with. What I ended up learning was how to be a smarter rider and understand proper handling and tune my senses on the road. Worth every penny. My teacher told me, “the habits you build in this class will transfer into your daily commute and you’ll be able to pick out who’s a biker just by their habits.”
I teach and had a student who had been riding something like 20-25 years dirty finally take the class. He didn't know he had to actually turn his head and look through a turn. Like, it was a glass shatter moment for him when he finally tried it and suddenly turning was so much more effective/easy. So yeah, when people say the MSF is stupid or is only for riding safely in a parking lot/under 25mph.. whatever. Their vehicle registration fees are paying for the class for other smarter people anyway.
Some people don’t know to turn their heads? Idk how you turn without it! I’m still so glad I took the class
I didn’t realize people thought this way. How insecure must someone be to reject the idea that someone may know something you don’t.
I’ve known kids that say it’s dumb and crash out the lot. I skipped it cause I’m broke but trained like a mofo in a lot before hitting the streets. Dad is an ex pro mx racer that taught me so I consider that training enough.
10 yr MSF instructor that came up the same way. Off roads great for developing the physical skills but not the mental needed for street riding. Trees never take left hand turns in front of you.
Soooo many people use that “I’ve got dirt bike experience” as leverage, and I gotta use that tree comment next time I see one :)
Don't worry, this is a problem solved through natural selection. There's a reason that you generally don't see many older bikers wearing no gear and doing squid shit (boomers on Harleys being an exception): you don't live that long if you have a cavalier, arrogant know-it-all attitude when you're still learning to ride.
Lol I personally have met some pretty cool boomers on Harley’s and they’re a lot of fun, but even THEY encouraged me NOT to do what they do. My dad has been riding motorcycles longer than I’ve been alive, and still is. I’m glad I have him as a proper guide to this whole lifestyle
Because there are so many stupid people
Why do you care what people who aren't you and have no dog in the fight of your education think? It's your ass that knows when and where a professional is needed. Be smart.
I took class. Learned a lot of things I didn’t know. Also I believe it’s like 80% of deaths on a bike are unlicensed drivers.
[удалено]
Because they share the road with all of us, and disproportionately use our health care dollars when they turn themselves into vegetables.
Well i will admit i initially learned to ride a motorcycle not from MSF and then i took the MSF and they wanted me to change a bunch of habits - which annoyed the shit out of me. Some things they told me were better and some were not. All in all the class wasn’t toooo helpful to just jump right into the street anyways (which is where i was already riding). While i advise everyone takes it, it is also extremely basic and only teaches you to safely drive in a parking lot. To a total noob without access to a motorcycle its the best thing to do and will get you on a bike semi-comfortably in 2 days. I just wish their bikes wernt total broken POS haha, but hey, that means the other people are truly learning from scratch….which is pretty awesome that this service is even offered!
I have to laugh at this, because MA pretty much has the worst state examiners in the fucking universe for both car and motorcycle. They will fail you for existing. Any way to avoid those turd buckets is a miracle.
Depends on your situation really, the guy that started riding dirt bikes as a child probably doesn't need it. Does that mean he should look down on it? Probably not but people are.... people.
Too expensive. Too long. Personally I've just watched tons of training videos for free online. Not as good as hands on training I'm sure, but I've saved $350 and 30 hours of my time.
It's not stupid. OTOH, I've been riding safely for over 25 years without it. When am I good enough?
Eh, If you already know basically how to ride a motorcycle all of the riding instruction is redundant. Safety instruction can be helpful but most of it is self explanatory.
When a rider passes a MSF course to only be allowed to go bar hopping on their Harley they ride 5 times a year it can seem a bit much to say a MSF certification means a lot.
When I started riding I didn’t even know that they were offered. This was in 86.
It should definitely be more encouraged. I see ads on instagram about it now, but before, I found out from a marine friend of mine who bought a motorcycle like a month out of bootcamp
A couple reasons. Some folks have experience before considering a course. These folks may not recognize value in course because, “well I’m doing fine and I never took it.” The other camp is folks who have had a bad course experience, or have read or heard of a bad course experience. Not every course is equal - it’s only as good as the instructors; and there are some douchey and/or poorly prepared instructors out there.
Only way to get you’re endorsement in Florida 🤷♂️
Someone said it’s the only way in Texas too
Well, you could self-educate if you want to become good at it. This probably takes more time than a proper one though. Also, you *have* to self-educate if your "classes" consists of a half-dead 200cc and an instructor who likes to chat and drink tea much more than help you. You get licence with your only acquired skill is how to find a neutral in a sticky clutch bike within a minute. This is reality in third world. If there is actual good quality education available and you value your time, it's a good idea.
The fact that it is a option for you guys is wild to me
People are ignorant , what's new ?
Most of them are a scam. How much can you learn about ANYTHING in 1 day?
I started riding dirt bikes around 5 years old, street bikes at 15. After I had been riding 10 years I decided to take the motorcycle safety class and it cleaned up my turns and taught me fundamentals I had been doing wrong. After I took the dirt class too and cleaned up my off road riding. I recommend the class to anyone and everyone.
I take one every year
I remember taking the course in high school after my dad saw a figure that showed that like 90% of motorcycle fatalities were riders without that MSF course. And I mean honestly it’s a fun way to spend a week. Had to do it again after getting back from Afghanistan and the first part of the ride day is painfully boring after having some experience. But some of the later maneuvers were still pretty fun.
Yea, recently it’s 92% of riders that get into crashes reporting they’ve been self taught. They showed that statistic in my class too
Because many many people who ride bikes are stupid.
??? You need them for a licence?
In the States, not all states are required to have it. Doesn’t make sense since there are tons of riders in Cali where I live, but I kinda wish it was
Because they’re cocky lol
I don’t think they are stupid. If you show up with the attitude that practice is good no matter what level you are, you will be more successful. Usually the instructors care about people learning basic skills to avoid dangerous situations. I always recommend to anyone who asks me to take the course regardless of their experience level. I think the “many” people you speak of are letting their ego take over. If they set that aside they might just learn a thing or two.
Because people are dumb and proud, they don't wanna be told what to do and wanna brag that they've ridden all of their lives without the course. Majority of them are the ones who don't actually have a motorcycle license
The biggest thing I learned from my class was. How to brake better in an emergency. And if you’re gonna hit a deer. Speed up, duck down, and brace for impact. Hopefully the deer goes over you. Because if you swerve and crash into a pole it’s going to hurt. Verses. Hitting a deer that’ll absorb a lot of the impact since it’s not fixed to the ground. And a better chance of staying upright and drive on like nothing happen. If you’re going fast enough you’ll go right through it. Think straw in an hurricane going through a tree.
They're literally idi0ts
Cause natural selection.
Both sides have a small portion that think the other is stupid for making their decision, just do what you think is best for you and ride your own ride
I was riding for like 6 years before I took my course in July in Florida I was very unhappy with the course but I could have just been too hangry to be objective
Just don’t take a class through Harley Davidson. Don’t even get me started.
I went thru Harley and I had a great experience, what happened with yours?? :(
In germany it takes a lot of time to get the license and at the end of your license the teachers tend to say. now you know how to move a bike but now really how to handle it, take a safety and lean angle class (which helps tremendusly)
Because people, who though "bikes are easy, I don't need classes" but failed - get can't write about it on the internet.
Sad to say it but MSF doesn’t really teach you how to ride. They teach some basics of control, but that’s about it. If you want to really learn riding techniques and control, take a dirt track style school that will teach you how to properly ride a motorcycle so that in low traction events you don’t panic and crash. Cornerspin (http://www.cornerspin.com/main.html) or similar, highly recommend. Taught me more in 2-days than I learned in two *decades* of track days and road racing on asphalt. Also, this training has prevented at least two big crashes for me personally and many others who have gone there have similar stories. MSF is like daycare. Cornerspin is like university.
I just got back into motorcycle riding after a 20-year hiatus. When my daughter found out that I was buying a new motorcycle she flipped the fuck out. So I decided to take a motorcycle safety course to ease her mind. And then I got to thinking that even though I had gone 8 years with nothing more than spilling my bike that there's a lot I could learn and it could be nothing but positive. I just took my first class tonight.
Invincibility of youth