Yeah seriously I tell my wife I need a new helmet every 5 years so I can get whatever new cool shit Shoei is making. Also because after 5 years I've taken enough rocks to the dome that it starts looking pretty rough.
Hey hey hey now most like buying new things myself included lol. This was more so put out there for the die hard people who insist after a few years a helmet is junk.
I think it's fair to say that in a few years you'll have dropped your helmet once or twice, and while the foam liner might not deteriorate, if you have a fracture in the material of the helmet then you gotta replace it because it isn't gonna protect your noggin in an off.
So unless you have a real fancy helmet that it's worth getting it xrayed to check for a fracture in it, chances are it's worth replacing it if you've ever dropped it on a hard surface.
I want to see this study, curious if these are 'out in the world' helmets that were also dropped.
Would love to see this study done on motorcycle helmets instead of bicycle helmets, as well, given the weight difference and different falling characteristics.
I am neither agreeing or disagreeing but I just want to point out that the article is talking about bicycle helmets, not motorcycle helmets
source: [Age Does Not Affect the Material Properties of Expanded Polystyrene Liners in Field-Used Bicycle Helmets | J. Biomech Eng. | ASME Digital Collection](https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/biomechanical/article-abstract/138/4/041005/371203/Age-Does-Not-Affect-the-Material-Properties-of?redirectedFrom=fulltext)
I get ya. Same type is used in both. It’s the same foam though. Don’t down vote because you think there is a difference. I’d the same exact foam. Edit: I’m loving the downvotes that are hating on a fact lol
This wouldn't even be an expensive study to run.
I do think there would be some unique differences between motorcycle and bicycle helmets in its integrity.
>We have seen helmet shells deteriorate from constant exposure to sunlight. So if you ride thousands of miles every year, five years may be a realistic estimate of helmet life. And helmets have actually been improving enough over time to make it a reasonable bet that you can find a better one than you did five years ago. It may fit better, look better, and in some cases may even be more protective.
Motorcycle helmets go through more abuse than bicycle helmets, I'd rather err on the side of caution and replace it a year too early instead of a year too late
Deteriorate in what fashion tho? You could claim the finish/paint is what is degrading. Or is it the structural integrity of the shell? If so, what is the actual severity of it and how does it impact the safety.
Not much besides word vomit from what I read
I dare say that bicycle helmets get abused way more than motorcycle helmets, but it ,of course, depends on certain factors. My partners bicycle helmet goes through all kinds of weather all year long and is thrown around, dropped and left out over night. My helmet is mostly only used on weekends in dry sunny weather, is never dropped, cleaned after every ride and is stored in a cloth bag in a closet. That said, I agree with you, rather replace a helmet too early than not, but when that is, should be based on the condition of the helmet and not its age (as long as it isn't ancient)
I have actually searched for that type of study before but I couldn't find anything
So until I find something I will stick with my very own "about 10 years" rule
There are definitely differences and I wouldn’t wear a bicycle helmet but the foam is the same. Motorcycle helmets aren’t using some safer foam that is an industry secret.
I believe the density of the foam(s) is different.
For instance, you don't expect a cyclist to crash at 100mph so so can have the foam "give" more for better protection at lower speeds.
Yes, the impact rating for speeds of like 60mph, is much different then the top end of 20mph for bicycle helmets.
A maybe better comparison would be a bike helmet and a snow sports helmet.
Of course if the shell is damaged that isn’t good. Or if the helmet is neglected and left to rot in direct blistering sunlight day in and day out. I haven’t seen anything myself that says a well taken care of helmet that is older than 5 years is unsafe. Plenty of studies out there show they are good for much longer than the mfg’s suggested lifespan.
You are citing that EPS doesn't break down as the basis of your argument. Shell materials do degrade, both epoxy resin (in FRP) and polycarbonate become brittle and less tough due to UV exposure.
Manufacturers suggesting replacement is to do with liability. They can't be sure that the helmet is safe when it is older.
If you want to use a 10 year old helmet you've had sitting in the cupboard go ahead, but mine had the inner liner fall apart.
There’s always exceptions like a rider in Arizona who also lets the helmet bake in the sun hanging off the bike when not in use vs the person in Ohio who see much less sun exposure and who keeps the helmet inside when not in use. All I can say is that I feel they are good for much longer. Also storing things has proven to break down materials that if were being used wouldn’t. Like sneaker collectors know that soles will just crumble apart on shoes that haven’t been used heavily and have just sitting around. However the same shoes that have been worn the whole time the sole is still intact. Sometimes using things expands their longevity.
> both epoxy resin (in FRP) and polycarbonate become brittle and less tough due to UV exposure.
Which is why shells are painted. If it makes you feel safer to spend money, enjoy, but don't attempt garage chemical engineering.
>We have seen helmet shells deteriorate from constant exposure to sunlight. So if you ride thousands of miles every year, five years may be a realistic estimate of helmet life. And helmets have actually been improving enough over time to make it a reasonable bet that you can find a better one than you did five years ago. It may fit better, look better, and in some cases may even be more protective.
From helmets.org
I think the key term you used was "well taken care of", but I'd venture to guess that most people would think they take great care of their helmets even though that may not be the case
You quote that but don’t quote the part where the same page says that most manufacturers use UV inhibitors in their shells and to look out for cracks around the vents and fading to see if the inhibitors are failing.
Sure, and it wasn't an intentional omission; I'm just highlighting that there are valid reasons to consider replacing your helmet sooner rather than later, especially depending on usage.
I'd rather be a year early than a year late. My Shoei says it's good for 7 years; I don't think that's an unreasonable timeline for replacing a piece of gear, especially one with significant usage and high importance
>Same type is used in both.
Bell use different types of foam in different models of helmet. Exactly which models have the same foam used in these bicycle helmet tests?
And were these bicycle helmets given the same tests as motorcycle helmets?
Foam might last longer than five years. But there are a lot of false equivalences in using bicycle tests to learn about motorcycle helmets.
If you store a helmet in a climate controlled environment and keep it clean and dry with manufacturer recommended procedures, it will not suddenly stop working properly after 5 years, this is a fact.
I don’t think most people do that though. They leave it on the bike to cook in the sun when they get off and go somewhere. They leave it in the garage when they get home. They don’t tear it down and clean it properly.
Plastic doesn’t break down without external forces. If you mitigate the external forces, the plastic doesn’t break down; or at least it breaks down WAY slower than it will matter.
So If I store it in my closet, dry it after each ride, inspect it regularly, and ride 12 times a year because I live in Canada, still good for 5 years?
So that means their EPS is extra special though? Or is every other company wrong?
Also no offense to shoei at all, I love their products but I have my doubts they are using a better quality EPS compared to say, Arai.
After several years I notice the cheekpads starting to breakdown and the helmet has a looser fit. I could replace them I guess, but I just buy a new helmet
Do which ever you prefer. I like buying quality safety gear and taking care of it. I have other things I would rather spend money on than replacing a perfectly good helmet.
Agreed most don’t do proper maintenance and care on things and that definitely speeds up the decline. I’m looking at it in the way of it being a helmet that has been taken care of. Can’t expect it to live 7 or 8 or or more years if it’s abused.
The “5 year rule” came about from a study in the 70s of helmets worn by the California Highway Patrol. So 50 years old on a group that does more time riding than just about anyone.
Right, I've almost never seen a bicycle helmet left out in the sun, but I leave my motorcycle helmet out almost every ride. Bicycle helmets also move a lot more air, evaporating sweat before it soaks in and marinates against the EPS, motorcycle helmets are more enclosed and hold a lot more funk.
True, but I still think my motorcycle helmet stays nastier for longer because air doesn't flow through it nearly as much whether I'm wearing it or it's sitting on the shelf. No idea if that has any real impact on the EPS.
Yeah although probably somewhere between 85-95% of helmet construction is the same, the differences can be big in how they wear, break, crash, etc.
For my helmet, it can smell like absolute ass crack, but when I pull all the internal lining and wash, smells brand new. No deeper part of the helmet is visible with the lining in place, so I would assume my lining in this case does a better job of absorbing sweat and other nasties before they can get deeper into the helmet construction.
But I’m not a helmet engineer.
I don't do it myself but many people also ride with a balaclava or some other sort of head covering that is also going to absorb a bunch of sweat, also length of hair is obviously going be an impact as well.
the 5 year rule is going to be in place for the "worst" owners, the bald guys who ride all the time in hot climates and don't temp control their helmets.
Oddly enough, non removable liner helmets and helmets with removable liners have the same life expectancy.
I'm pretty sure its safe to call bullshit on the 5 year rule.
I wish we all lived somewhere you could leave a helmet and expect it to be there and not fucked with when you get back. What a beautiful world it would be.
The concept of helmet expiration is entirely fabricated by the helmet industry. No region in the world, not even the strict EU, has helmet expiry dates. This is is because there is no evidence real world that older helmets are more or less safe than new ones.
Snell Foundation has a 5 year rule, and yet they have never published any data in support of that rule. This is because Snell depends heavily on helmet manufacturers paying them for certification.
I wish SHARP would test old helmets and publish a study, because they proved no correlation between helmet cost and impact protection.
As for this sub, everyone is just parroting websites citing helmet companies opinion, which has a clear conflict of interest.
"At least one shop told a customer that the EPS in his three year old helmet was now "dried out." Other sales people refer to "out gassing" and say that the foam loses gas and impact performance is affected. Still others claim that helmets lose a percentage of their effectiveness each year, with the percentage growing with age. All of that is nothing but marketing hype to sell a replacement helmet before you need it. There is some loss of aromatics in the first hours and days after molding, and helmet designers take account of that for standards testing. But after that the foam stabilizes and does not change for many years, unless the EPS is placed in an oven for some period of time and baked. The interior of your car, for example, will not do that, based on helmets we have seen and at least one lab crash test of a helmet always kept in a car in Virginia over many summers. Helmet shells can be affected by car heat, but not the foam. The Snell Memorial Foundation has tested motorcycle helmets held in storage for more than 20 years and found that they still meet the original standard."
https://helmets.org/replace.htm
The helmet stuff is hilarious to me. If the 5 year "rule" was legit that would have to mean that the second human sweat comes into contact with the EPS that it starts a process causing it to be no longer useful and that the process is linear and any added sweat beyond the first dose does not increase the speed of fucked eps liner at all.
I don't doubt that sweat fucks the EPS liner, to my dumbass self it makes sense. However I have to assume these mega companies are saying 5 years both for profit of people buying new helmets and because they can safely and easily guarantee that the guy who rides daily in a hot environment sweating his ass off in the helmet will also be as protected by the helmet as he should be after 4 years as he was in year 1.
The problem with motorcycle helmets over cycling ones is that they tend to use fabric and soft foams as well as impact resistant EPS (traditional polystyrene) foam.
EPS foam is very stable as noted, but soft foams degrade and collapse relatively quickly, and once that happens the helmet becomes loose, no longer fits correctly and actively can become a danger in itself.
Right. There's more to helmet safety than a test in controlled conditions where the helmet isn't even being worn, hence fit isn't a factor. Deterioration of the foam padding as a huge factor. The can be replaced in some helmets, not in others.
Also, a helmet is a system, it's not just EPS taped to your head. The outer shell is also something that could degrade, cheaper helmets made of polycarbonate which is very susceptible to UV damage. There's also the chin strap as a potential failure point.
So it doesn't all come down to EPS lasts forever.
There’s also the fact that both the strap and the shell themselves can also degrade over time, and you really can’t tell with the shell. Personally I’m not going to risk it, but as with all biking, it’s all about how much personal risk you’re willing to take, at the end of the day.
Yeah, some people are still the same size as they were in high school.
It definitely caught me by surprise that my old helmet size didn't fit any more, but I'm getting close to being able to fit back into it.
I agree this isn’t an open and shut case as there are mitigating factors in every situation. However the manufacturer suggestions of 3-5 years are not accurate at all. I think it was the university of Toronto that did testing on helmets that were 25 years old and they still performed as expected. Notw that’s a long time and I would not wear a 25 year old helmet it just shows us that there’s still a lot of false stigmas with helmets though.
Again, it’s all about the soft foam components. I’ve never had a lid last probably more than 6-7 years before bits of crumbled foam started coming out of it, so it’s obviously internally degrading. Also a helmet that is worn daily for 5 years will be in a completely different condition to one that’s sat in a box for that long. Sweat and body heat will add to the rate of degradation.
That's why I buy an extra padding set for each new helmet, at the time of buying the helmet if possible.
Once the original set gets worn out, I can start over and have a like-new fit.
Best to buy the pad set at the same time as the helmet. No guarantee the padding sets will be available years later.
> helmet becomes loose, no longer fits correctly and actively can become a danger in itself.
Nice theory, but actual data for this? Because others will say an older helmet now has organic MIPS.
Personal preference at that point. I wouldn’t wear shoes that long either although I’ve met a few people over the years that had 10+ year old boots and sneakers that were still going strong.
You are spreading mis information yourself.
This is not research on motorcycle helmets. This is a motorcycle (or circle jerking) subreddit. If you are going to put an excerpt of a study at least put a disclaimer on it that the study has not put material through the testing of what happens when a motorcycle crashes.
I feel like a lot of it is very conditional. A helmet usually sitting in a closet and used for shorter commutes or funsies, is probably perfectly fine after a decade. Those helmets hanging from my coworkers' handlebars outside straight up baking in the sun, probably not so much.
Also probably protects them from some insurance companies\\people putting lawsuits against them when their 35 year old helmet fails in a spectacular way and it is determined that if they had a helmet with any sort of EPS at all they would have been alive.
I cannot blame a company who makes brain saving devices putting a lifespan on them, it seems like a mandatory thing. I do however wish that someone who actually test the rule so we could get a better idea of what the actual lifespan could be.
Same. It's not really about the EPS. Constant use also degrades the more less essential parts of the helmet. I've had the rubber lip on the helmet's underside simply fall off on multiple helmets, different brands, and less than 5 years of use.
The glue on the underside was quite done.
Had visor retention latches break on an hjc c90 after 2 years. Sun visor borderline falling out of place is something I've encountered on 2 helmets thus far.
you and i definitely have the same issues. I am having rubber lip issues with my Aria helmet at the 2 year mark.
I also find that things tend to go down hill once i remove the liner for cleaning. Things becoming looser and you run the risk of tearing coming. I accidentally tore part of the neck liner and now that piece comes loose a lot.
There comes a point where i have multiple non essential part issues and that’s where I decide it’s time to get a new helmet
Haven't torn liners yet to be fair, and I abuse them quite a bit as well.
I find that the liners which contain more cotton tend to be way worse over time than those antibacterial polyester liners.
Have a Caberg Duke 2 used for city chores which has the liner just about done after a single year and a single wash.
I'll go towards the other end of the price spectrum now and spring for an arai or shoei and see how that works out over time though.
Something to bear in mind is that your helmet is not a single component. You've got the shell, which can be a mix of different construction elements; polycarbonate, fiberglass, carbon fiber, etc. and each of those has different ways of being put together. Each of those methods have different ways they can fail over time (other than catastrophic damage) and need to be minded by an owner. UV degradation is the most common mode of wear, with carbon fiber laminates being additionally susceptible to delamination due to UV breakdown of the resins, leading to contaminate intrusion. To be 100% clear, this process is extremely slow and the only time you need to worry about the shell being compromised is if it gets damaged. Deep scratches or cracks would be an indication that the shell is no good and probably needs to be replaced.
The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented, though the rate of degradation is extremely slow. The EPS will become brittle over time, especially if exposed to sunlight, at a rate of 1-2% a year. So, if you stored your helmet outside with the foam exposed to the sun, you might lose 6-10% of the helmet's impact resistance.
Lastly is the liner. This is an equally important part of your helmet and the component most likely to give up the ghost in that 5-7 year threshold manufacturers want you to buy a new helmet in. The liner has the pads and mesh that make the helmet comfortable and keep it snug to the important bits you're trying to protect. These will degrade over time due to exposure to sweat and dirt, including the straps used to secure the helmet to your head. Some of these components are replaceable, others are not. I would argue that these components will probably dictate when you need to get a new lid.
> The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented
link to one single document.
Sure thing:
[https://www.oatext.com/degradation-study-of-used-polystyrene-with-uv-irradiation.php](https://www.oatext.com/degradation-study-of-used-polystyrene-with-uv-irradiation.php)
The conclusion is that the thermal properties of polystyrene are impacted via shrinkage but this study doesn't specifically look at mechanical properties. This one does:
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2238785421003793](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2238785421003793)
Again, the mechanism of degradation is known. I've also pointed out in my original comment that UV exposure to the EPS foam liner of a helmet would require someone to store their lid in the open, upside down, whenever they aren't using it. The fact that only a lunatic would do that lends weight to the idea that the EPS component of a helmet isn't what we should be worried about when it comes to the age of a helmet. We should be concerned with whether or not the helmet has been stored properly and the parts that make contact with our skin. Those components, though not doing the work of directly protecting our dome in a crash, are equally vital and if compromised, should be a reason to get a new helmet.
EDIT: The two articles found are just a few that you can look up. The problem I think most people run into when looking for studies is they include words like motorcycle or helmet. You need to look for polystyrene or high impact polystyrene in your keywords.
>The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented
The documents supplied are talking about the influence of UV. How does an inner foam liner get exposed to significant quantities of UV?
A helmet that you wear every day for years is not going to be "perfectly fine" because it deteriorates as you ride...vibrations, movements, wind resistance all that stuff.
Im curious if the study you sited tested helmets that were not touched or helmets that were used but not crashed. I suspect that there is a difference there...
all my old Shoei helmet's, the Styrofoam main part has held up and looks fine. The interior comfort foam liner is another story. My oldest helmet (20 years give or take) it completely disintegrated and my latest is starting too at a bit over 5+ years. I think the helmets would be fine to use if I could find liners that were still intact for them.
I wonder what environmental conditions were for this study. The foam in a helmet subjected to summer sunlit riding in Texas is probably not going to show exactly the same after 5 years as spring riding in Oregon
So if the helmet is stored properly and is a quality helmet to begin with I agree. Like your bike's tires you inspect the helmet regularly. If it looks worn doesn't fit properly has been banged up or cracked then replace it.
If in good shape you can compare it to newer ones at the local shop and see what is needed or not.
Honestly it's not the EPS that's the problem it's the adhesives and glues used inside. I've held helmets that are only 6 years old and they crumble in my hands because if you remove the cheek pad the whole EPS liner comes out with the pad so I'll stick my 5 year plans.
The way y’all ride, your brains go splat against the inside of your skull at 100mph+. A +2% better helmet ain’t saving your brain from being squashed to a bloody soup.
I’m using a 10 year old Arai. It lives in a sheepskin lined bag, gets cleaned after every ride and feels as good as the day I bought it. It’s like the sell by date on Worcestershire sauce - legally required but bullshit. It used to be a thing with plastic helmets that degrade in uv though.
My helmet is 3.5 years from manufacture and I plan on replacing it at the five year mark. I give not a single shit that bicycle helmets perform to their minimum standard X number of years later. For the same reason I don’t trust DOT labeled helmets, I’ll trust in regular replacements even if it turns out it’s excessive for the sake of confidence in equipment.
I replace my helmet about every 5 years. The padding wears out, the seals tend to dry, the helmet starts to fit looser. That and my head is in there along with my brain. I’ll keep them as protected as possible
Seems a mixed bag - I don't follow the 5 thing like gospel. Keeping a snug fit by replacing your cheekpads or inner liners will do a lot to keep a less than new helmet as safe as can be too.
Surely there is a little hype involved and CYA/marketing on behalf of the MFGs but- there is a lot more than just the foam to consider, each helmet is a little different and may have several layers of different types of foams/other materials for impact protection, the shell construction itself, adhesives, exposure to hot/cold/elements/cleaners, etc. Impact protection at highway speeds vs. typical bicycle crash speeds are a factor too - lot more going on at 70 vs 15.
Definitely a mixed bag and all things aren’t standard for everyone. Yet in general well taken care of non crashed helmets are safe past the general 3-5 year recommendation. I put this out there because I once posted a new helmet I bought (old stock) and people were going crazy that the helmet is from 2020 it’s expired it’s no longer safe lol they make me laugh.
It's also not a bad idea to buy a new helmet after several years as you will inadvertently knock the helmet at some point over the years and when it comes to my head/brain, I'd rather spend $300 every 5 years than get a brain injury.
Thanks, I found that useful info.
Now I will leave before the "it's your head and you should do whatever you can to protect it, that's why I don't even ride anymore" brigade counters you.
This in no way describes how the helmet was stored for that amount of time. The big killer for foam/helmet materials is the sun. I live in AZ and if you leave a bike helmet out in the sun over the summer it will be fucking dust. My kids have done this to me more than once, left their bike helmets where it basically got full sun for two months, and it was done. I think if you stored your helmet in the garage, and use it only once in a while, sure, it would last you a decade easy, but if you're riding every day, that lifespan is cut down quickly.
- Bicycle helmets aren't the same as motorcycle helmets
- This article is only playing about the liner, not the shell or anything else that might or might not go into it
- Why push limits on helmets unless you absolutely have to? Just because it MIGHT be ok doesn't mean you should do it if you can afford to simply just not be the real world test for this sort of thing.
The main protection element is the EPS lining that’s what protects you the most and it’s the same material in the helmets it’s not different. So many are under the false impression that it degrades rapidly and that’s just not true. It’s even been tested and proven that sweat doesn’t break it down which many also believe are true.
I don’t have to find it read studies to tell me that helmets degrade over time. I used to keep my old helmets around, and even had one from about 15 years ago.
I’ve heard many times that the EPS foam outgases and becomes stiffer over time. Maybe, maybe not. It’s really not a concern to me because the open cell foam used in the interior pads break down much faster. Bicycle helmets barely have any padding inside them, so there’s less to break down (I also have kept bicycle helmets for years… there’s a huge difference between the two types of helmet over time). Those pads are what makes the helmet for your head properly. When those are and deteriorate, the helmet becomes loose and is more likely to contribute to injury if you ever decide to use it. Good luck finding new pads for a 10 year old motorcycle helmet.
Another thing I’ve personally observed breaking down is the glues used in the construction of all helmets. Motorcycle helmets seem to be affected more, possibly due to the greater mass retaining heat longer, or perhaps more exposure to the elements/ultraviolet radiation/etc. Whatever the cause, those goes breaking down have resulted in decent enough looking helmets essentially falling apart after a few years of no use at all.
Do what you like, be your own person, blah blah blah. I’ll continue buying my ~$600 helmets every 4 or 5 years.
Maybe the inner foam cushioning doesn't deteriorate over time. However your helmet sees various scenarios where components start to degrade because of other factors.
Your helmet will deflect debris and rocks, slowly chipping away at parts of the outer shell. Your sweat will ingrain itself into the foam cushioning, the repeated putting the helmet on and off cycles will cause the cushioning to be looser. Repeated washes of the cushioning will slowly wear it down too, causing the helmet to feel looser. The cycling of the buckle will slowly wear it down. The mechanical hinges of the visor mechanism will slowly wear down with repeated use. Leaving your helmet in the sun whilst you sit at Cafes or run in to do a shop will start to degrade the outer lining. Washing your helmet with the wrong chemicals. Maybe you dropped your helmet off the bike a couple times too.
All these result in a helmet that is weaker than when it was new. Now it might only be marginally weaker, but at 70mph motorway speeds, or hell even track day speeds, is that a risk worth taking? When companies reccomend swapping your helmet every X years, it's to cover their own backs, you can probably get longer out of it but it's not worth the risk to them if a 15yr old helmet fails and it turns out to be deteriorating materials rather than user negligence. The same way bleach, hand sanitizer etc kills 99.9% of germs, not 100%. They can't test every scenario and they know someone will eventually pop up and sue because it didn't do exactly as advertised, but in a scenario so unique and isolated it either wasn't worth testing for or that there was no way on earth they would have even thought of testing for it.
A new helmet can be as cheap as £50, ECE rated. There's no excuse to not be buying one every 5-6yrs. Besides, most helmets are beaten to shit after that long anyway.
Personal opinion -- Helmets are not something you want to screw around with to save a few dollars. That said, I've never heard 3-5, more like 7-10. Also more than time since manufacture, it's about usage time when you have been wearing and sweating in one. If you ride every day I'd probably say stick to what they say....if you only ride on weekend and like here in Ontario, bike is stored for 6 months each year, you can go a bit longer.
Long time almost daily rider here. For me, it's not the foam, it's the shell. I ride about 100 miles rt to commute. Between sand and gravel being kicked up on the freeway by other vehicles and the summer heat, my shell takes a beating.
We should be glad that people are wearing helmets that are greater than six years (I'm poor and my Arai is 9 years old). Replacing expensive helmets every six years is definitely at least partially related to profit margins. Someone is a lot safer in an old helmet than none at all (or a melon).
Even IF it were all a sham and Big Helmet was just trying to get you to buy more helmets to pad their revenue, why risk it? Helmets are not expensive, but head injuries are.
>If you simply drop your helmet it can be structurally compromised
Maybe if you drop it from the top of a 5 story building. A simple fall off your seat, with no load in it, is NOT going to compromise your helmet. The "no load" is the important part.
https://preview.redd.it/faie5vaf8s4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbc77cdbe9c033ecb10e065d125344457b1b5270
Used but not crashed 26 year old helmets still doing their job ! Say what you want but you can’t argue cold hard facts.
Yeah I'm not dropping $700 - $900 on a bucket every couple years. My first one I did wait too long, about eleven years, but 8 - 9 years is fine by me (of course barring damage/being in an accident, just normal wear and tear and use).
If it's a scam to get people to buy a new helmet every few years, then why do helmet retailers heavily discount older helmets? You'd think they would be on this great conspiracy scam and never discount their older helmets.
But nope, every few years I look up the helmets I liked, that fit me, find a dealer discounting then, and save hundreds of dollars.
My helmet started to get loose after 5 years, I bought it extra snug, but the padding just lost its fit after a lot of miles. It was also starting to “creak” and “click” which I can only connect to expanding and contracting foam. This was an HJC helmet. Felt time to retire it and move On
EPS lasts decades if it's mostly being stored inside.
Tires also don't magically go bad in 7 years. The only source for that information is the tire manufacturers.
The issue isn’t suddenly that the helmet doesn’t work. The performance can reduce somewhat. But a snug fit is important, and also to replace to ensure there is no damage. For example, a big enough drop could damage the helmet. Shoei offer services to scan helmets for this reason. I would definitely replace helmets last 10 years though. And replace after a big hit.
I ride alot and they get gross after awhile even after washing the pads. Also i ride alot of offroad so while it dosent take alot of direct impacts it still gets knocked around a bit. And i just like to change it up every now and then
Well, there's still wear and tear, on the liner, etc. They just get worn.
Even if you have a proper helmet where you can detach the full liner and run it through a washing machine periodically.
If the liner isn't removable, the helmet gets absolutely repulsive relatively quickly.
Currently upgrading my lids, all all bought from 2019-2021. The ece 2022.06 helmet standards are so far ahead of snell and dot that they exceed fim standards now. Some are available sub $200.
Great, do tires next.
Tire is rated for 149mph. Manufacturer, "I would recommend changing those tires every 6 years."
So you are saying that for 6 years, that tire will perform as intended, up to the same 149mph limit that it is rated for?
"Yes."
What if I am only doing 80mph? How long will it be before I can notice a difference at 80mph?
"..."
That tire that is over-designed for what I need, your legal and engineering departments have stated it is good at it's design capacity for that long, if I don't push the tire to it's limits, will it last longer?
"..."
...
If your tire is showing signs that it needs to be replaced, replace it. It is the condition, not the age.
I agree condition is a main factor. I haven’t looked into tires like I have helmets. My opinion based off what I’ve seen presented in actual testing and in my own personal experience helmets just last much longer than people think.
Like milk ? It’s known that milk is good past its expiration date. Go ahead and tell the struggling single mom that the gallon of milk she has in her fridge should be thrown away because it expired yesterday.
Eps can last longer than that... It can also last much less if you don't look after it. As an example, a lot of riders put their gloves in their helmet, this can very quickly destroy the eps (fill bike with fuel, put fumey hand in gloves, fumey gloves in helmet) as well as that liners get worn, vents get broken, they get knocked around and dropped, sweated in, rock chips, visor seals stop sealing...
All these things mean an average helmet should be replaced after 5 years or so. Which is why that recommendation is pretty much industry standard.
It's an interesting study, but in terms of how long you should use a motorcycle helmet for, it isn't particularly relevant.
They totally lost credibility as soon as they quantified an intact shell as anything not cracked and letting sunlight through.
Recommendations tending to be set to cover all but extremely edge cases. If your use case is a short after noon jaunt on an occasional nice day then a helmet will last longer than 5 years. If you actually ride after less then 5 years of gallons of sweat mixed with hair products, 100s of hours of intense UV exposure, 1000s on-offs causing visible wear on the straps, etc. the helmet is toast.
True for the most part with a midrange or up helmet that isn't used everyday, especially in bad weather
Couple years of daily use in heat and rain and I don't even want to bother trying to replace the liners. It's easier to just buy another beater. Save the nice helmets for the fast rides and track
I mean there is evidence that EPS degrades over time.
We can argue how much and over how long but the fact remains that it degrades.
If you have a $100 head buy a $100 helmet and then never replace it.
I value my brain a little more than that so I spend accordingly and replace it within the guidelines.
But again, if you don’t have anything of value to protect up there you can save a lot of money…
Right, so if it degrades then it would eventually need to be replaced.
At which point the replacement is necessary is definitely up for debate and helmet manufacturers don’t exactly have a reason to be 100% honest with this rule of thumb, but I think the point still stands. Your EPS foam degrades over time and with use.
Again, if you don’t value your head or what’s inside of it then buy the cheapest chinesium that passes DOT certification and then never replace it. For me, I find 5 years is suitable to use something and then replace it, but I also work at a motorcycle dealership and ride 10 months of the year, so I can justify it a bit easier than an average consumer.
At the end of the day people should do what makes them happy. For me, that means retiring an old helmet every 5-7 years.
General ballpark 250 for the helmet I got it for 80. 22.06 is safer I don’t argue that but in no way does it make 05 unsafe and suddenly a danger to use.
Lol, good for you?
I wasn't recommending one over the other from a purely regulatory or law abiding perspective. I was recommending it for its improved safety.
Yeah, but it’s an excuse for me to buy a new helmet. Don’t kill it for me.
Yeah seriously I tell my wife I need a new helmet every 5 years so I can get whatever new cool shit Shoei is making. Also because after 5 years I've taken enough rocks to the dome that it starts looking pretty rough.
I just switched from original gt-air to the 3. Nice upgrade
Hey hey hey now most like buying new things myself included lol. This was more so put out there for the die hard people who insist after a few years a helmet is junk.
I think it's fair to say that in a few years you'll have dropped your helmet once or twice, and while the foam liner might not deteriorate, if you have a fracture in the material of the helmet then you gotta replace it because it isn't gonna protect your noggin in an off. So unless you have a real fancy helmet that it's worth getting it xrayed to check for a fracture in it, chances are it's worth replacing it if you've ever dropped it on a hard surface.
Exactly! You put your brains in it.
I want to see this study, curious if these are 'out in the world' helmets that were also dropped. Would love to see this study done on motorcycle helmets instead of bicycle helmets, as well, given the weight difference and different falling characteristics.
Exactly! This information is ruining our time-honored secrets and traditions of being sneaky about buying helmets.
I am neither agreeing or disagreeing but I just want to point out that the article is talking about bicycle helmets, not motorcycle helmets source: [Age Does Not Affect the Material Properties of Expanded Polystyrene Liners in Field-Used Bicycle Helmets | J. Biomech Eng. | ASME Digital Collection](https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/biomechanical/article-abstract/138/4/041005/371203/Age-Does-Not-Affect-the-Material-Properties-of?redirectedFrom=fulltext)
I get ya. Same type is used in both. It’s the same foam though. Don’t down vote because you think there is a difference. I’d the same exact foam. Edit: I’m loving the downvotes that are hating on a fact lol
but safety standards change for motorcycles and a new helmet will vastly outperform a 15 year old helmet
I don’t disagree with new technology comes better safety however I’m not convinced a 6 year old helmet is unsafe 15 is pushing it even for me.
This wouldn't even be an expensive study to run. I do think there would be some unique differences between motorcycle and bicycle helmets in its integrity.
Snell did it, 20 years, no difference: https://helmets.org/replace.htm
>We have seen helmet shells deteriorate from constant exposure to sunlight. So if you ride thousands of miles every year, five years may be a realistic estimate of helmet life. And helmets have actually been improving enough over time to make it a reasonable bet that you can find a better one than you did five years ago. It may fit better, look better, and in some cases may even be more protective. Motorcycle helmets go through more abuse than bicycle helmets, I'd rather err on the side of caution and replace it a year too early instead of a year too late
Deteriorate in what fashion tho? You could claim the finish/paint is what is degrading. Or is it the structural integrity of the shell? If so, what is the actual severity of it and how does it impact the safety. Not much besides word vomit from what I read
I dare say that bicycle helmets get abused way more than motorcycle helmets, but it ,of course, depends on certain factors. My partners bicycle helmet goes through all kinds of weather all year long and is thrown around, dropped and left out over night. My helmet is mostly only used on weekends in dry sunny weather, is never dropped, cleaned after every ride and is stored in a cloth bag in a closet. That said, I agree with you, rather replace a helmet too early than not, but when that is, should be based on the condition of the helmet and not its age (as long as it isn't ancient)
I have actually searched for that type of study before but I couldn't find anything So until I find something I will stick with my very own "about 10 years" rule
There are definitely differences and I wouldn’t wear a bicycle helmet but the foam is the same. Motorcycle helmets aren’t using some safer foam that is an industry secret.
I believe the density of the foam(s) is different. For instance, you don't expect a cyclist to crash at 100mph so so can have the foam "give" more for better protection at lower speeds.
Yes, the impact rating for speeds of like 60mph, is much different then the top end of 20mph for bicycle helmets. A maybe better comparison would be a bike helmet and a snow sports helmet.
Density of the foam would not change its determination lol. Of it does, it is pointless what the density is.
Huh? Could you rephrase that please?
Cool, same materials used. One goes 25ish mph, the other goes 90+. Light wear at 25 is less lethal than light wear at 90.
Did you forget about the helmet's shell?
Of course if the shell is damaged that isn’t good. Or if the helmet is neglected and left to rot in direct blistering sunlight day in and day out. I haven’t seen anything myself that says a well taken care of helmet that is older than 5 years is unsafe. Plenty of studies out there show they are good for much longer than the mfg’s suggested lifespan.
You are citing that EPS doesn't break down as the basis of your argument. Shell materials do degrade, both epoxy resin (in FRP) and polycarbonate become brittle and less tough due to UV exposure. Manufacturers suggesting replacement is to do with liability. They can't be sure that the helmet is safe when it is older. If you want to use a 10 year old helmet you've had sitting in the cupboard go ahead, but mine had the inner liner fall apart.
There’s always exceptions like a rider in Arizona who also lets the helmet bake in the sun hanging off the bike when not in use vs the person in Ohio who see much less sun exposure and who keeps the helmet inside when not in use. All I can say is that I feel they are good for much longer. Also storing things has proven to break down materials that if were being used wouldn’t. Like sneaker collectors know that soles will just crumble apart on shoes that haven’t been used heavily and have just sitting around. However the same shoes that have been worn the whole time the sole is still intact. Sometimes using things expands their longevity.
> both epoxy resin (in FRP) and polycarbonate become brittle and less tough due to UV exposure. Which is why shells are painted. If it makes you feel safer to spend money, enjoy, but don't attempt garage chemical engineering.
So paint doesn't degrade from UV either?! Woah that's great news /s
Americans are funny, they trust marketing from companies selling them something, but would never trust actual engineering studies.
\*Some\* Americans. ;)
~Not all~ americans
>We have seen helmet shells deteriorate from constant exposure to sunlight. So if you ride thousands of miles every year, five years may be a realistic estimate of helmet life. And helmets have actually been improving enough over time to make it a reasonable bet that you can find a better one than you did five years ago. It may fit better, look better, and in some cases may even be more protective. From helmets.org I think the key term you used was "well taken care of", but I'd venture to guess that most people would think they take great care of their helmets even though that may not be the case
You quote that but don’t quote the part where the same page says that most manufacturers use UV inhibitors in their shells and to look out for cracks around the vents and fading to see if the inhibitors are failing.
Sure, and it wasn't an intentional omission; I'm just highlighting that there are valid reasons to consider replacing your helmet sooner rather than later, especially depending on usage. I'd rather be a year early than a year late. My Shoei says it's good for 7 years; I don't think that's an unreasonable timeline for replacing a piece of gear, especially one with significant usage and high importance
Agreed, I’m doing good if I can go 7 years without getting my pants caught on something dismounting and falling over 😂
I ripped a pair of jeans wide open a few months back because the back pocket got caught on a door handle
I downvoted because it seems to bother you, and I'm an asshole.
Good reason lol. It doesn’t bother me as much as people down voting when they think I’m wrong but have no evidence to prove so.
>Same type is used in both. Bell use different types of foam in different models of helmet. Exactly which models have the same foam used in these bicycle helmet tests? And were these bicycle helmets given the same tests as motorcycle helmets? Foam might last longer than five years. But there are a lot of false equivalences in using bicycle tests to learn about motorcycle helmets.
>It’s the same foam though. Is it though? Or is it the same material but a different density? And did they test how density effects the degradation?
[удалено]
The new helmets come with new safety standards - here you go, an excuse
Never lol
So you're saying I don't have to treat my helmets like Leonardo DiCaprio treats his girlfriends?
Why you buying 22 year old helmets?
Have you seen helmet prices these days? I had to buy a DOT sticker and stick it on an old leather football helmet from goodwill
You guys aren’t taking your helmets to a movie theater and running around waving light sabers while you fight the bad guys?!
I guess this is good news, I just replaced a 25yo helmet.
Cost effective at its finest lol
If you store a helmet in a climate controlled environment and keep it clean and dry with manufacturer recommended procedures, it will not suddenly stop working properly after 5 years, this is a fact. I don’t think most people do that though. They leave it on the bike to cook in the sun when they get off and go somewhere. They leave it in the garage when they get home. They don’t tear it down and clean it properly. Plastic doesn’t break down without external forces. If you mitigate the external forces, the plastic doesn’t break down; or at least it breaks down WAY slower than it will matter.
So if I ride every day, sweat like a whore in church, abuse my helmet, is it still good for 5 years?
For you yes
So If I store it in my closet, dry it after each ride, inspect it regularly, and ride 12 times a year because I live in Canada, still good for 5 years?
"you should buy a new helmet every year" --Helmet dealer.
It's not every year though. Shoei for example recommends every 7 years. I'm ok with that.
So that means their EPS is extra special though? Or is every other company wrong? Also no offense to shoei at all, I love their products but I have my doubts they are using a better quality EPS compared to say, Arai.
Depending on original quality I would say 5 years in the minimum it would last.
After several years I notice the cheekpads starting to breakdown and the helmet has a looser fit. I could replace them I guess, but I just buy a new helmet
Do which ever you prefer. I like buying quality safety gear and taking care of it. I have other things I would rather spend money on than replacing a perfectly good helmet.
How much do whores sweat? Izzat what cause their panties to get wet? I always wondered 🤔
Agreed most don’t do proper maintenance and care on things and that definitely speeds up the decline. I’m looking at it in the way of it being a helmet that has been taken care of. Can’t expect it to live 7 or 8 or or more years if it’s abused.
The “5 year rule” came about from a study in the 70s of helmets worn by the California Highway Patrol. So 50 years old on a group that does more time riding than just about anyone.
In the sun for 9 hours a day
Right, I've almost never seen a bicycle helmet left out in the sun, but I leave my motorcycle helmet out almost every ride. Bicycle helmets also move a lot more air, evaporating sweat before it soaks in and marinates against the EPS, motorcycle helmets are more enclosed and hold a lot more funk.
I mean, counterpoint: you’re probably doing a lot more sweating in the first place in a bike helmet
True, but I still think my motorcycle helmet stays nastier for longer because air doesn't flow through it nearly as much whether I'm wearing it or it's sitting on the shelf. No idea if that has any real impact on the EPS.
My foam starts to permanently smell like sweat after 5-6 years. I'm happy to replace it then.
Yeah although probably somewhere between 85-95% of helmet construction is the same, the differences can be big in how they wear, break, crash, etc. For my helmet, it can smell like absolute ass crack, but when I pull all the internal lining and wash, smells brand new. No deeper part of the helmet is visible with the lining in place, so I would assume my lining in this case does a better job of absorbing sweat and other nasties before they can get deeper into the helmet construction. But I’m not a helmet engineer.
I don't do it myself but many people also ride with a balaclava or some other sort of head covering that is also going to absorb a bunch of sweat, also length of hair is obviously going be an impact as well. the 5 year rule is going to be in place for the "worst" owners, the bald guys who ride all the time in hot climates and don't temp control their helmets. Oddly enough, non removable liner helmets and helmets with removable liners have the same life expectancy. I'm pretty sure its safe to call bullshit on the 5 year rule.
I wish we all lived somewhere you could leave a helmet and expect it to be there and not fucked with when you get back. What a beautiful world it would be.
Helmet? I check on my bike in sporadic intervals if it’s anywhere but home. I wish I only had to worry about the helmet
The concept of helmet expiration is entirely fabricated by the helmet industry. No region in the world, not even the strict EU, has helmet expiry dates. This is is because there is no evidence real world that older helmets are more or less safe than new ones. Snell Foundation has a 5 year rule, and yet they have never published any data in support of that rule. This is because Snell depends heavily on helmet manufacturers paying them for certification. I wish SHARP would test old helmets and publish a study, because they proved no correlation between helmet cost and impact protection. As for this sub, everyone is just parroting websites citing helmet companies opinion, which has a clear conflict of interest. "At least one shop told a customer that the EPS in his three year old helmet was now "dried out." Other sales people refer to "out gassing" and say that the foam loses gas and impact performance is affected. Still others claim that helmets lose a percentage of their effectiveness each year, with the percentage growing with age. All of that is nothing but marketing hype to sell a replacement helmet before you need it. There is some loss of aromatics in the first hours and days after molding, and helmet designers take account of that for standards testing. But after that the foam stabilizes and does not change for many years, unless the EPS is placed in an oven for some period of time and baked. The interior of your car, for example, will not do that, based on helmets we have seen and at least one lab crash test of a helmet always kept in a car in Virginia over many summers. Helmet shells can be affected by car heat, but not the foam. The Snell Memorial Foundation has tested motorcycle helmets held in storage for more than 20 years and found that they still meet the original standard." https://helmets.org/replace.htm
Man what a great breakdown. Definitely worth the read !
The helmet stuff is hilarious to me. If the 5 year "rule" was legit that would have to mean that the second human sweat comes into contact with the EPS that it starts a process causing it to be no longer useful and that the process is linear and any added sweat beyond the first dose does not increase the speed of fucked eps liner at all. I don't doubt that sweat fucks the EPS liner, to my dumbass self it makes sense. However I have to assume these mega companies are saying 5 years both for profit of people buying new helmets and because they can safely and easily guarantee that the guy who rides daily in a hot environment sweating his ass off in the helmet will also be as protected by the helmet as he should be after 4 years as he was in year 1.
The problem with motorcycle helmets over cycling ones is that they tend to use fabric and soft foams as well as impact resistant EPS (traditional polystyrene) foam. EPS foam is very stable as noted, but soft foams degrade and collapse relatively quickly, and once that happens the helmet becomes loose, no longer fits correctly and actively can become a danger in itself.
Right. There's more to helmet safety than a test in controlled conditions where the helmet isn't even being worn, hence fit isn't a factor. Deterioration of the foam padding as a huge factor. The can be replaced in some helmets, not in others. Also, a helmet is a system, it's not just EPS taped to your head. The outer shell is also something that could degrade, cheaper helmets made of polycarbonate which is very susceptible to UV damage. There's also the chin strap as a potential failure point. So it doesn't all come down to EPS lasts forever.
So just replace the liner every 5 years. That if it can even be bought...
There’s also the fact that both the strap and the shell themselves can also degrade over time, and you really can’t tell with the shell. Personally I’m not going to risk it, but as with all biking, it’s all about how much personal risk you’re willing to take, at the end of the day.
> once that happens the helmet becomes loose, no longer fits correctly Which you may not notice if your head has gotten fatter.
I don’t think my head’s changed shape in 30 odd years, but yes.
Yeah, some people are still the same size as they were in high school. It definitely caught me by surprise that my old helmet size didn't fit any more, but I'm getting close to being able to fit back into it.
I agree this isn’t an open and shut case as there are mitigating factors in every situation. However the manufacturer suggestions of 3-5 years are not accurate at all. I think it was the university of Toronto that did testing on helmets that were 25 years old and they still performed as expected. Notw that’s a long time and I would not wear a 25 year old helmet it just shows us that there’s still a lot of false stigmas with helmets though.
Again, it’s all about the soft foam components. I’ve never had a lid last probably more than 6-7 years before bits of crumbled foam started coming out of it, so it’s obviously internally degrading. Also a helmet that is worn daily for 5 years will be in a completely different condition to one that’s sat in a box for that long. Sweat and body heat will add to the rate of degradation.
So you are saying it depends more on the condition of the helmet than the age? Makes sense to me.
Yes, but soft foam will degrade far quicker than hard EPS regardless.
I have bought replacement liners for helmets, $50 vs $600. Helmet fits as it did when it was new.
That's why I buy an extra padding set for each new helmet, at the time of buying the helmet if possible. Once the original set gets worn out, I can start over and have a like-new fit. Best to buy the pad set at the same time as the helmet. No guarantee the padding sets will be available years later.
> helmet becomes loose, no longer fits correctly and actively can become a danger in itself. Nice theory, but actual data for this? Because others will say an older helmet now has organic MIPS.
"There's honestly a lot of misinformation that gets passed along." Here's an article about bicycle helmets to prove my point.
This sub is responsible for them 3r quarter profit sales...replace helmet annually plz.
Don’t share this with my spouse. I’ll never be allowed a new helmet again.
That shits nasty after 5-7 years anyway.
Agreed the inner lining and pads do but that’s easily replaceable
Idk getting a new something I use everyday doesn't seem crazy or like a big deal. I don't wear shoes every for 5 years.
Personal preference at that point. I wouldn’t wear shoes that long either although I’ve met a few people over the years that had 10+ year old boots and sneakers that were still going strong.
You are spreading mis information yourself. This is not research on motorcycle helmets. This is a motorcycle (or circle jerking) subreddit. If you are going to put an excerpt of a study at least put a disclaimer on it that the study has not put material through the testing of what happens when a motorcycle crashes.
I'm sure the guys who sell helmets would love to recommend single-use only... but I'm not gonna do that, either.
I buy mid range helmets just so I can replace them with shiny new ones every 3 years I’d much rather do that then have a 10 year old $1000 helmet
Same. As long as it’s 22.05/22.06 ECE and cheap. Why not.
I feel like a lot of it is very conditional. A helmet usually sitting in a closet and used for shorter commutes or funsies, is probably perfectly fine after a decade. Those helmets hanging from my coworkers' handlebars outside straight up baking in the sun, probably not so much.
Just some of the, “we are not liable because…” legalese they put down for their protection.
I can see that. If they say hey we told them after 3 years it was no good and they crashed at 4 and it failed so not our fault.
Also probably protects them from some insurance companies\\people putting lawsuits against them when their 35 year old helmet fails in a spectacular way and it is determined that if they had a helmet with any sort of EPS at all they would have been alive. I cannot blame a company who makes brain saving devices putting a lifespan on them, it seems like a mandatory thing. I do however wish that someone who actually test the rule so we could get a better idea of what the actual lifespan could be.
I ride 12-15,000 miles a year. Replacing my helmet 3-5 years makes sense for me.
Same. It's not really about the EPS. Constant use also degrades the more less essential parts of the helmet. I've had the rubber lip on the helmet's underside simply fall off on multiple helmets, different brands, and less than 5 years of use. The glue on the underside was quite done. Had visor retention latches break on an hjc c90 after 2 years. Sun visor borderline falling out of place is something I've encountered on 2 helmets thus far.
you and i definitely have the same issues. I am having rubber lip issues with my Aria helmet at the 2 year mark. I also find that things tend to go down hill once i remove the liner for cleaning. Things becoming looser and you run the risk of tearing coming. I accidentally tore part of the neck liner and now that piece comes loose a lot. There comes a point where i have multiple non essential part issues and that’s where I decide it’s time to get a new helmet
Haven't torn liners yet to be fair, and I abuse them quite a bit as well. I find that the liners which contain more cotton tend to be way worse over time than those antibacterial polyester liners. Have a Caberg Duke 2 used for city chores which has the liner just about done after a single year and a single wash. I'll go towards the other end of the price spectrum now and spring for an arai or shoei and see how that works out over time though.
Something to bear in mind is that your helmet is not a single component. You've got the shell, which can be a mix of different construction elements; polycarbonate, fiberglass, carbon fiber, etc. and each of those has different ways of being put together. Each of those methods have different ways they can fail over time (other than catastrophic damage) and need to be minded by an owner. UV degradation is the most common mode of wear, with carbon fiber laminates being additionally susceptible to delamination due to UV breakdown of the resins, leading to contaminate intrusion. To be 100% clear, this process is extremely slow and the only time you need to worry about the shell being compromised is if it gets damaged. Deep scratches or cracks would be an indication that the shell is no good and probably needs to be replaced. The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented, though the rate of degradation is extremely slow. The EPS will become brittle over time, especially if exposed to sunlight, at a rate of 1-2% a year. So, if you stored your helmet outside with the foam exposed to the sun, you might lose 6-10% of the helmet's impact resistance. Lastly is the liner. This is an equally important part of your helmet and the component most likely to give up the ghost in that 5-7 year threshold manufacturers want you to buy a new helmet in. The liner has the pads and mesh that make the helmet comfortable and keep it snug to the important bits you're trying to protect. These will degrade over time due to exposure to sweat and dirt, including the straps used to secure the helmet to your head. Some of these components are replaceable, others are not. I would argue that these components will probably dictate when you need to get a new lid.
> The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented link to one single document.
Sure thing: [https://www.oatext.com/degradation-study-of-used-polystyrene-with-uv-irradiation.php](https://www.oatext.com/degradation-study-of-used-polystyrene-with-uv-irradiation.php) The conclusion is that the thermal properties of polystyrene are impacted via shrinkage but this study doesn't specifically look at mechanical properties. This one does: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2238785421003793](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2238785421003793) Again, the mechanism of degradation is known. I've also pointed out in my original comment that UV exposure to the EPS foam liner of a helmet would require someone to store their lid in the open, upside down, whenever they aren't using it. The fact that only a lunatic would do that lends weight to the idea that the EPS component of a helmet isn't what we should be worried about when it comes to the age of a helmet. We should be concerned with whether or not the helmet has been stored properly and the parts that make contact with our skin. Those components, though not doing the work of directly protecting our dome in a crash, are equally vital and if compromised, should be a reason to get a new helmet. EDIT: The two articles found are just a few that you can look up. The problem I think most people run into when looking for studies is they include words like motorcycle or helmet. You need to look for polystyrene or high impact polystyrene in your keywords.
>The inner foam liner, which is the component most often listed as having a shelf life, does experience a process of evaporation over time. This is fairly well documented The documents supplied are talking about the influence of UV. How does an inner foam liner get exposed to significant quantities of UV?
Did you read my entire initial comment and the reply above?
https://youtu.be/QYfgD12JXtg?si=Ct-GTA7izLJRkYG2
A helmet that you wear every day for years is not going to be "perfectly fine" because it deteriorates as you ride...vibrations, movements, wind resistance all that stuff. Im curious if the study you sited tested helmets that were not touched or helmets that were used but not crashed. I suspect that there is a difference there...
all my old Shoei helmet's, the Styrofoam main part has held up and looks fine. The interior comfort foam liner is another story. My oldest helmet (20 years give or take) it completely disintegrated and my latest is starting too at a bit over 5+ years. I think the helmets would be fine to use if I could find liners that were still intact for them.
I wonder what environmental conditions were for this study. The foam in a helmet subjected to summer sunlit riding in Texas is probably not going to show exactly the same after 5 years as spring riding in Oregon
So if the helmet is stored properly and is a quality helmet to begin with I agree. Like your bike's tires you inspect the helmet regularly. If it looks worn doesn't fit properly has been banged up or cracked then replace it. If in good shape you can compare it to newer ones at the local shop and see what is needed or not.
Honestly it's not the EPS that's the problem it's the adhesives and glues used inside. I've held helmets that are only 6 years old and they crumble in my hands because if you remove the cheek pad the whole EPS liner comes out with the pad so I'll stick my 5 year plans.
The way y’all ride, your brains go splat against the inside of your skull at 100mph+. A +2% better helmet ain’t saving your brain from being squashed to a bloody soup.
Who’s y’all lol. My daily commute is 55 tops.
I said this and got downvoted to oblivion
Can’t reason with people who don’t want to accept things.
No kidding
Nolan Modular is the way to go. Hot or cold weather
I’m using a 10 year old Arai. It lives in a sheepskin lined bag, gets cleaned after every ride and feels as good as the day I bought it. It’s like the sell by date on Worcestershire sauce - legally required but bullshit. It used to be a thing with plastic helmets that degrade in uv though.
My helmet is 3.5 years from manufacture and I plan on replacing it at the five year mark. I give not a single shit that bicycle helmets perform to their minimum standard X number of years later. For the same reason I don’t trust DOT labeled helmets, I’ll trust in regular replacements even if it turns out it’s excessive for the sake of confidence in equipment.
That’s your choice and right I’m just saying plenty of evidence showing they last longer than what the mfg says. Not so much saying otherwise.
I replace my helmet about every 5 years. The padding wears out, the seals tend to dry, the helmet starts to fit looser. That and my head is in there along with my brain. I’ll keep them as protected as possible
Seems a mixed bag - I don't follow the 5 thing like gospel. Keeping a snug fit by replacing your cheekpads or inner liners will do a lot to keep a less than new helmet as safe as can be too. Surely there is a little hype involved and CYA/marketing on behalf of the MFGs but- there is a lot more than just the foam to consider, each helmet is a little different and may have several layers of different types of foams/other materials for impact protection, the shell construction itself, adhesives, exposure to hot/cold/elements/cleaners, etc. Impact protection at highway speeds vs. typical bicycle crash speeds are a factor too - lot more going on at 70 vs 15.
Definitely a mixed bag and all things aren’t standard for everyone. Yet in general well taken care of non crashed helmets are safe past the general 3-5 year recommendation. I put this out there because I once posted a new helmet I bought (old stock) and people were going crazy that the helmet is from 2020 it’s expired it’s no longer safe lol they make me laugh.
It's also not a bad idea to buy a new helmet after several years as you will inadvertently knock the helmet at some point over the years and when it comes to my head/brain, I'd rather spend $300 every 5 years than get a brain injury.
Thanks, I found that useful info. Now I will leave before the "it's your head and you should do whatever you can to protect it, that's why I don't even ride anymore" brigade counters you.
No problem ! Drop a gear and disappear lol
I mean, that useful info is only pertinent to bicycle helmets.
This in no way describes how the helmet was stored for that amount of time. The big killer for foam/helmet materials is the sun. I live in AZ and if you leave a bike helmet out in the sun over the summer it will be fucking dust. My kids have done this to me more than once, left their bike helmets where it basically got full sun for two months, and it was done. I think if you stored your helmet in the garage, and use it only once in a while, sure, it would last you a decade easy, but if you're riding every day, that lifespan is cut down quickly.
I lived in Mesa for about 6 months. I’m from the East cost. Man the sun was brutal out there and will definitely destroy stuff fast.
Old helmets are gross. Please let me have my excuses.
No excuse needed ! Fresh and shinny are awesome lol
- Bicycle helmets aren't the same as motorcycle helmets - This article is only playing about the liner, not the shell or anything else that might or might not go into it - Why push limits on helmets unless you absolutely have to? Just because it MIGHT be ok doesn't mean you should do it if you can afford to simply just not be the real world test for this sort of thing.
The main protection element is the EPS lining that’s what protects you the most and it’s the same material in the helmets it’s not different. So many are under the false impression that it degrades rapidly and that’s just not true. It’s even been tested and proven that sweat doesn’t break it down which many also believe are true.
Potentially dispelling the EPS degrading is a fair counter.
I don’t have to find it read studies to tell me that helmets degrade over time. I used to keep my old helmets around, and even had one from about 15 years ago. I’ve heard many times that the EPS foam outgases and becomes stiffer over time. Maybe, maybe not. It’s really not a concern to me because the open cell foam used in the interior pads break down much faster. Bicycle helmets barely have any padding inside them, so there’s less to break down (I also have kept bicycle helmets for years… there’s a huge difference between the two types of helmet over time). Those pads are what makes the helmet for your head properly. When those are and deteriorate, the helmet becomes loose and is more likely to contribute to injury if you ever decide to use it. Good luck finding new pads for a 10 year old motorcycle helmet. Another thing I’ve personally observed breaking down is the glues used in the construction of all helmets. Motorcycle helmets seem to be affected more, possibly due to the greater mass retaining heat longer, or perhaps more exposure to the elements/ultraviolet radiation/etc. Whatever the cause, those goes breaking down have resulted in decent enough looking helmets essentially falling apart after a few years of no use at all. Do what you like, be your own person, blah blah blah. I’ll continue buying my ~$600 helmets every 4 or 5 years.
Maybe the inner foam cushioning doesn't deteriorate over time. However your helmet sees various scenarios where components start to degrade because of other factors. Your helmet will deflect debris and rocks, slowly chipping away at parts of the outer shell. Your sweat will ingrain itself into the foam cushioning, the repeated putting the helmet on and off cycles will cause the cushioning to be looser. Repeated washes of the cushioning will slowly wear it down too, causing the helmet to feel looser. The cycling of the buckle will slowly wear it down. The mechanical hinges of the visor mechanism will slowly wear down with repeated use. Leaving your helmet in the sun whilst you sit at Cafes or run in to do a shop will start to degrade the outer lining. Washing your helmet with the wrong chemicals. Maybe you dropped your helmet off the bike a couple times too. All these result in a helmet that is weaker than when it was new. Now it might only be marginally weaker, but at 70mph motorway speeds, or hell even track day speeds, is that a risk worth taking? When companies reccomend swapping your helmet every X years, it's to cover their own backs, you can probably get longer out of it but it's not worth the risk to them if a 15yr old helmet fails and it turns out to be deteriorating materials rather than user negligence. The same way bleach, hand sanitizer etc kills 99.9% of germs, not 100%. They can't test every scenario and they know someone will eventually pop up and sue because it didn't do exactly as advertised, but in a scenario so unique and isolated it either wasn't worth testing for or that there was no way on earth they would have even thought of testing for it. A new helmet can be as cheap as £50, ECE rated. There's no excuse to not be buying one every 5-6yrs. Besides, most helmets are beaten to shit after that long anyway.
Personal opinion -- Helmets are not something you want to screw around with to save a few dollars. That said, I've never heard 3-5, more like 7-10. Also more than time since manufacture, it's about usage time when you have been wearing and sweating in one. If you ride every day I'd probably say stick to what they say....if you only ride on weekend and like here in Ontario, bike is stored for 6 months each year, you can go a bit longer.
Bell for example only recommends 3. There are many out there that believe helmets are only good for 5 years.
Long time almost daily rider here. For me, it's not the foam, it's the shell. I ride about 100 miles rt to commute. Between sand and gravel being kicked up on the freeway by other vehicles and the summer heat, my shell takes a beating.
My helmets are pretty trashed by the time the expiration date hits anyway.
Then I agree out with the old in with the new. Trashed is trashed.
Don’t leave it in the sun and it will last a lot longer. Uv degrades the shell as well but aside from that they should be fine.
We should be glad that people are wearing helmets that are greater than six years (I'm poor and my Arai is 9 years old). Replacing expensive helmets every six years is definitely at least partially related to profit margins. Someone is a lot safer in an old helmet than none at all (or a melon).
Even IF it were all a sham and Big Helmet was just trying to get you to buy more helmets to pad their revenue, why risk it? Helmets are not expensive, but head injuries are.
If you simply drop your helmet it can be structurally compromised. It’s your life. Don’t get a new helmet. 🤷🏻♂️
Experts seem to disagree with that
>If you simply drop your helmet it can be structurally compromised Maybe if you drop it from the top of a 5 story building. A simple fall off your seat, with no load in it, is NOT going to compromise your helmet. The "no load" is the important part.
https://preview.redd.it/faie5vaf8s4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbc77cdbe9c033ecb10e065d125344457b1b5270 Used but not crashed 26 year old helmets still doing their job ! Say what you want but you can’t argue cold hard facts.
Yeah I'm not dropping $700 - $900 on a bucket every couple years. My first one I did wait too long, about eleven years, but 8 - 9 years is fine by me (of course barring damage/being in an accident, just normal wear and tear and use).
If it's a scam to get people to buy a new helmet every few years, then why do helmet retailers heavily discount older helmets? You'd think they would be on this great conspiracy scam and never discount their older helmets. But nope, every few years I look up the helmets I liked, that fit me, find a dealer discounting then, and save hundreds of dollars.
Remember for some riders 5 years is maybe 10000km but to other riders it’s more like 60000km. Have to look at distance and time.
My helmet started to get loose after 5 years, I bought it extra snug, but the padding just lost its fit after a lot of miles. It was also starting to “creak” and “click” which I can only connect to expanding and contracting foam. This was an HJC helmet. Felt time to retire it and move On
Not suddenly bad, no. Five years on my head would make anything worthy of replacement though….
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Couldn’t agree more
EPS lasts decades if it's mostly being stored inside. Tires also don't magically go bad in 7 years. The only source for that information is the tire manufacturers.
The issue isn’t suddenly that the helmet doesn’t work. The performance can reduce somewhat. But a snug fit is important, and also to replace to ensure there is no damage. For example, a big enough drop could damage the helmet. Shoei offer services to scan helmets for this reason. I would definitely replace helmets last 10 years though. And replace after a big hit.
5 years? Shit i replace mine like every 2
Crazy overkill if the helmet hasn’t been impacted but that’s your choice for a peace of mind and I can’t knock it.
I ride alot and they get gross after awhile even after washing the pads. Also i ride alot of offroad so while it dosent take alot of direct impacts it still gets knocked around a bit. And i just like to change it up every now and then
we have issues with getting rid of foam as a whole.
Well, there's still wear and tear, on the liner, etc. They just get worn. Even if you have a proper helmet where you can detach the full liner and run it through a washing machine periodically. If the liner isn't removable, the helmet gets absolutely repulsive relatively quickly.
get yourself an insurance company that’ll replace your gear
Currently upgrading my lids, all all bought from 2019-2021. The ece 2022.06 helmet standards are so far ahead of snell and dot that they exceed fim standards now. Some are available sub $200.
Great, do tires next. Tire is rated for 149mph. Manufacturer, "I would recommend changing those tires every 6 years." So you are saying that for 6 years, that tire will perform as intended, up to the same 149mph limit that it is rated for? "Yes." What if I am only doing 80mph? How long will it be before I can notice a difference at 80mph? "..." That tire that is over-designed for what I need, your legal and engineering departments have stated it is good at it's design capacity for that long, if I don't push the tire to it's limits, will it last longer? "..." ... If your tire is showing signs that it needs to be replaced, replace it. It is the condition, not the age.
I agree condition is a main factor. I haven’t looked into tires like I have helmets. My opinion based off what I’ve seen presented in actual testing and in my own personal experience helmets just last much longer than people think.
Go ahead and ignore your expiration dates on all your food too please.
Like milk ? It’s known that milk is good past its expiration date. Go ahead and tell the struggling single mom that the gallon of milk she has in her fridge should be thrown away because it expired yesterday.
You really are willfully obtuse aren't you?
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Gotta keep generating revenue can’t have people holding onto helmets any longer than we can help !
Eps can last longer than that... It can also last much less if you don't look after it. As an example, a lot of riders put their gloves in their helmet, this can very quickly destroy the eps (fill bike with fuel, put fumey hand in gloves, fumey gloves in helmet) as well as that liners get worn, vents get broken, they get knocked around and dropped, sweated in, rock chips, visor seals stop sealing... All these things mean an average helmet should be replaced after 5 years or so. Which is why that recommendation is pretty much industry standard. It's an interesting study, but in terms of how long you should use a motorcycle helmet for, it isn't particularly relevant.
Technically decades as they make house insulation from it...
They totally lost credibility as soon as they quantified an intact shell as anything not cracked and letting sunlight through. Recommendations tending to be set to cover all but extremely edge cases. If your use case is a short after noon jaunt on an occasional nice day then a helmet will last longer than 5 years. If you actually ride after less then 5 years of gallons of sweat mixed with hair products, 100s of hours of intense UV exposure, 1000s on-offs causing visible wear on the straps, etc. the helmet is toast.
It was just a scam to sell more helmets. People are suckers.
Planned obsolescence
True for the most part with a midrange or up helmet that isn't used everyday, especially in bad weather Couple years of daily use in heat and rain and I don't even want to bother trying to replace the liners. It's easier to just buy another beater. Save the nice helmets for the fast rides and track
I mean there is evidence that EPS degrades over time. We can argue how much and over how long but the fact remains that it degrades. If you have a $100 head buy a $100 helmet and then never replace it. I value my brain a little more than that so I spend accordingly and replace it within the guidelines. But again, if you don’t have anything of value to protect up there you can save a lot of money…
Yes it degrades like anything but it’s a very long time much longer than you would really have the helmet.
Right, so if it degrades then it would eventually need to be replaced. At which point the replacement is necessary is definitely up for debate and helmet manufacturers don’t exactly have a reason to be 100% honest with this rule of thumb, but I think the point still stands. Your EPS foam degrades over time and with use. Again, if you don’t value your head or what’s inside of it then buy the cheapest chinesium that passes DOT certification and then never replace it. For me, I find 5 years is suitable to use something and then replace it, but I also work at a motorcycle dealership and ride 10 months of the year, so I can justify it a bit easier than an average consumer. At the end of the day people should do what makes them happy. For me, that means retiring an old helmet every 5-7 years.
In any case, everyone should upgrade their helmets from ECE 22.05 to ECE 22.06.
I just bought a .05 helmet definitely won’t be replacing it for .06 as five is still more than adequately safe.
Hope you got a big discount for it then at least, I suppose.
General ballpark 250 for the helmet I got it for 80. 22.06 is safer I don’t argue that but in no way does it make 05 unsafe and suddenly a danger to use.
\*if your country requires the use of an ECE 22.06 certified helmet wich my country thankfully doesn't care about
Lol, good for you? I wasn't recommending one over the other from a purely regulatory or law abiding perspective. I was recommending it for its improved safety.
what was deemed save yesterday will not magically become deadly tomorrow, that's my take on that anyways.