I think he did just fine. He didn't Walken it up at all, imo.
Plus, it's a fun little nod to his part in the Weapon of Choice music video.
The emperor doesn't really have a ton to do so Walken is kind of underused, but I think he did well.
Also, I don't see Walken and just expect him to be all "Walkeny."
I agree. Its kind of a nothing part: you need an actor with a semblence of gravitas, but otherwise it could have been played by anyone with the same results. I actually think that's true of many of the roles in the second film: Rabban, Fenrig, Alia and to some extent Vladimir and even Gurney.
How in the Sam Hell could I know you were a woman? Don’t say “look at my pfp” many men sport women avatars. I added onto a joke after you had what was in my opinion, a bad take. No more, no less.
I liked his casting, but I wanted to see a lot more of him
The film, in my opinion, didnt neally give enough time to explain why he was distraught and the reason for going to Arrakis.
Who else. I wouldnt matter with the lack of screentime. Charles Dance, Ciarian Hinds? Think if he were still alive Patrick Mcgoohan (Braveheart, Escpae from Alcatraz) would have been an amazing choice.
My main gripe with the recent films is just how much they **don't** explain.
Everything else fires on all cylinders except the fact the movies assume you've read the books beforehand.
I agree and conversely, I also think that the books may over explain some things, which gets confusing and the movies more narrow focus helps keep things straight. Watching the movie was aided by having read the book and my re-read of the book was a better experience because I had seen the movie.
In the film prior to that scene Gurney mentioned that Rabin had given him the scar on his face, and at another point he makes it clear to the Fremen that this is his fight because the Harkonnens (of which Raben was the face on Arrakis) had killed his friends and family.
Honestly, I’m not sure how you could have swung it but it would have been cool if we never saw the emperor. Kind of like this very power orchestrator in the background. One of those where your imagination will generally supersede any one that is cast in the role.
I like that idea a lot. I think part of my flabbergasted feeling is that the expectations I had for casting were high for the emperor since they haven’t missed once for other characters
Perhaps because there wasn’t a lot of character development and we saw so little of him that made his scenes feel out of place to me—if he got more screen time maybe he would’ve been more compelling to me in the role
You listen to his line delivery and tell me that was his serous best effort to transform into a character instead of transforming into Christopher Walken-cum-emporer?
Compared to Oscar Isaac’s performance in the last film, Walken didn’t transform. In a movie like this you want to be so immersed you forget who the actor is. But he’s so distinctive that it’s impossible to suspend belief imo
I think it does a lot to communicate that the power of the emperor is the idea of the man rather than the reality. Both Paul and the audience are expecting some larger than life figure when the reality is that the emperor is an empty shirt. This doesn't strike me as being a flaw or bad casting, but a deliberate choice in storytelling.
Yeah that man can can reserved, yet terrifying while making clothes work *for* him
After watching him as Hannibal? I knew he could eat that role in Dune no crumbs lol
I don’t even get why they used him if he had almost nothing to do with
I was excited going into it to see his scenes and he mostly just kinda… cowered in a corner
Same! I definitely wanted someone more imposing; I’m voice and mannerisms.
May seem strange but I bet Phillip Seymour Hoffman would’ve killed this role
We seem to be in the minority with this opinion! I wish my post hadn’t been downvoted so much because I would’ve loved to see more discussion on this! There are some great takes on this thread that have made me question my opinion & I will be keeping them in mind for my next rewatch
I agree with you. They might as well have cast someone unknown. The character barely had any weight to it.
I thought it was strange that the emperor just showed up at Arrakis, to be captured. What kind of emperor does that?
The whole thing was just a bit silly.
Yeah, he was a big mistake. And even Pugh as Irulan was bad choice. The whole Corrino setup was a joke. It's like they ran out of money, and had to shoot the scenes in a hotel or something. I mean, this is suppose to be the Emperor of the Known Universe?? And his palace grounds looks like the back of a La Quinta Inn? Shaddam should've been played by Samuel L Jackson, Ving Rhames, or someone like that.
>Also, Irulan is a blond woman. So Shaddam must be a white guy.
Eh, they gender-bent Kaynes in part one and it was fine. Not saying its the same, but I'd hardly mind it either way.
I replied in the wrong thread. Some people were commenting that Sam L Jackson or Ving Rhames were good fits for the Emperor.
I agree, Walken was not a good call. Mads would have been fine. Someone that can play a charming villain. Imagine Charles Dance. He would have been awesome, but that guy is evil
The race of a character, whether explicitly named or indirectly implied, is a demographic change that can be very interesting to incorporate in adaptations.
In a text whose major themes are the pitfalls of imperial settler-colonialism and resource exploitation as cornerstones of economy, it can make sense to change the race of some characters to challenge or reveal more contemporary forms of racial animus and oppression.
There are certainly circumstances where making demographic changes can take away from the meaning of a text or play, but this is not the case for Dune imo. Adaptation is complicated but as long as thematic mechanics and elements remain profound commentary, making aesthetic demographic changes can enhance an adaptation imo
People out here blindly loving this mediocre movie. It was fine. Part One was more "Dune" where this was "Generic scifi war movie. (Yes I know Dune was first)
I really loved the first one. I felt it was nearly perfect!
My main issue with Dune 2 is with whoever edited the film. The pacing was too fast and character development and exploration wasn’t as much of a focus which meant the stakes of the ((((((((spoiler))))))) destruction of seitch tabr less effective
(((((end spoiler)))))
There just was not enough time spent on the emotional complexities of Paul’s transition and it felt rushed. Especially since the text is an explicitly anti-colonial allegory.
I lay this at the feet of the editors, mostly.
To be fair, he played it fairly straight. He could have gone Full Walken. And I would have loved it.
You never go full Walken!
only one person can actually go full Walken
And that man is Keanu Reeves
I think he did just fine. He didn't Walken it up at all, imo. Plus, it's a fun little nod to his part in the Weapon of Choice music video. The emperor doesn't really have a ton to do so Walken is kind of underused, but I think he did well. Also, I don't see Walken and just expect him to be all "Walkeny."
How so? I’ve seen the music video and the movie and I’m not sure what connects them! Please share!
There's a verse in the song that references Dune. "Walk without rhythm and it won't attract the worm"
Oh, how cool. Thanks!
Dude had like two lines and was on screen for 4 minutes. Did we watch the same movie?
I agree. Its kind of a nothing part: you need an actor with a semblence of gravitas, but otherwise it could have been played by anyone with the same results. I actually think that's true of many of the roles in the second film: Rabban, Fenrig, Alia and to some extent Vladimir and even Gurney.
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Didn’t they say shush?
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How in the Sam Hell could I know you were a woman? Don’t say “look at my pfp” many men sport women avatars. I added onto a joke after you had what was in my opinion, a bad take. No more, no less.
SHUSSSHHHHHHH!!!!
Honestly, he walkened it a lot less than I expected. If anything, he walkened it down.
“BAron…do you…have ANY idea WHO this Mu’adib…COULD BE?” “MAD?!” His line reads are just 🤌🏽
I liked his casting, but I wanted to see a lot more of him The film, in my opinion, didnt neally give enough time to explain why he was distraught and the reason for going to Arrakis. Who else. I wouldnt matter with the lack of screentime. Charles Dance, Ciarian Hinds? Think if he were still alive Patrick Mcgoohan (Braveheart, Escpae from Alcatraz) would have been an amazing choice.
My main gripe with the recent films is just how much they **don't** explain. Everything else fires on all cylinders except the fact the movies assume you've read the books beforehand.
I agree and conversely, I also think that the books may over explain some things, which gets confusing and the movies more narrow focus helps keep things straight. Watching the movie was aided by having read the book and my re-read of the book was a better experience because I had seen the movie.
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In the film prior to that scene Gurney mentioned that Rabin had given him the scar on his face, and at another point he makes it clear to the Fremen that this is his fight because the Harkonnens (of which Raben was the face on Arrakis) had killed his friends and family.
Honestly, I’m not sure how you could have swung it but it would have been cool if we never saw the emperor. Kind of like this very power orchestrator in the background. One of those where your imagination will generally supersede any one that is cast in the role.
I like that idea a lot. I think part of my flabbergasted feeling is that the expectations I had for casting were high for the emperor since they haven’t missed once for other characters
Perhaps because there wasn’t a lot of character development and we saw so little of him that made his scenes feel out of place to me—if he got more screen time maybe he would’ve been more compelling to me in the role
I thought Walken was fine, but I would also have loved to see someone like Anthony Hopkins or James Earl Jones in the role if he wasn't retired.
Both great choices! I bet Laurence Fishbourne would dominate, too
He was Christopher Walkenthrough.
Just because Christopher Walken has been memefied to death doesn't mean he as an actor is unserious
You listen to his line delivery and tell me that was his serous best effort to transform into a character instead of transforming into Christopher Walken-cum-emporer? Compared to Oscar Isaac’s performance in the last film, Walken didn’t transform. In a movie like this you want to be so immersed you forget who the actor is. But he’s so distinctive that it’s impossible to suspend belief imo
I think it does a lot to communicate that the power of the emperor is the idea of the man rather than the reality. Both Paul and the audience are expecting some larger than life figure when the reality is that the emperor is an empty shirt. This doesn't strike me as being a flaw or bad casting, but a deliberate choice in storytelling.
I really like this interpretation!
Nic Cage.
Jason Statham
Jason Statham
Pauley Shore
Keanu Reeves
John Malkovich
Robert Lloyd!
I'm a big fan of Mads Mikkelsen too, and I think he could've brought a more imposing and regal presence to the role.
Yeah that man can can reserved, yet terrifying while making clothes work *for* him After watching him as Hannibal? I knew he could eat that role in Dune no crumbs lol
I don’t even get why they used him if he had almost nothing to do with I was excited going into it to see his scenes and he mostly just kinda… cowered in a corner
I found him wasted in the role. Not a huge fan of his, but this was not how I imagined the scheming Padisha Emperor Shaddam IV
Same! I definitely wanted someone more imposing; I’m voice and mannerisms. May seem strange but I bet Phillip Seymour Hoffman would’ve killed this role
I agree he was miscast, but he certainly didn’t take anything away from my experience. That film is the shit.
Jeff Goldblum
Harvey Firestein
Christopher Walken was perfection.
It was the only part of the film that I thought was the wrong choice. It really took me out of it and his performance was quite lacklustre
We seem to be in the minority with this opinion! I wish my post hadn’t been downvoted so much because I would’ve loved to see more discussion on this! There are some great takes on this thread that have made me question my opinion & I will be keeping them in mind for my next rewatch
I agree with you. They might as well have cast someone unknown. The character barely had any weight to it. I thought it was strange that the emperor just showed up at Arrakis, to be captured. What kind of emperor does that? The whole thing was just a bit silly.
Arrakis needs more...cowbell. Morgan Freeman or Donald Sutherland would be my choices.
We said that so many times while watching 💀
Sutherland would have been marvelous for that role.
I think I would’ve been more excited to see Sutherland in the role had he not done *Hunger Games* already, tbh!
Yeah, he was a big mistake. And even Pugh as Irulan was bad choice. The whole Corrino setup was a joke. It's like they ran out of money, and had to shoot the scenes in a hotel or something. I mean, this is suppose to be the Emperor of the Known Universe?? And his palace grounds looks like the back of a La Quinta Inn? Shaddam should've been played by Samuel L Jackson, Ving Rhames, or someone like that.
Shaddam is described as a man in his 70s but that looks younger than that. Also, Irulan is a blond woman. So Shaddam must be a white guy.
>Also, Irulan is a blond woman. So Shaddam must be a white guy. Eh, they gender-bent Kaynes in part one and it was fine. Not saying its the same, but I'd hardly mind it either way.
I’m sorry I’m not following the point. His whiteness isn’t the basis of my confusion with his being cast for that role.
I replied in the wrong thread. Some people were commenting that Sam L Jackson or Ving Rhames were good fits for the Emperor. I agree, Walken was not a good call. Mads would have been fine. Someone that can play a charming villain. Imagine Charles Dance. He would have been awesome, but that guy is evil
The race of a character, whether explicitly named or indirectly implied, is a demographic change that can be very interesting to incorporate in adaptations. In a text whose major themes are the pitfalls of imperial settler-colonialism and resource exploitation as cornerstones of economy, it can make sense to change the race of some characters to challenge or reveal more contemporary forms of racial animus and oppression. There are certainly circumstances where making demographic changes can take away from the meaning of a text or play, but this is not the case for Dune imo. Adaptation is complicated but as long as thematic mechanics and elements remain profound commentary, making aesthetic demographic changes can enhance an adaptation imo
Ernie Hudson then. Shaddam doesn't have to be a white guy.
I agree should have been someone young, and I also pictured him as a white guy because he had red hair in the book.
How about Ralph or Joseph Fiennes?
People out here blindly loving this mediocre movie. It was fine. Part One was more "Dune" where this was "Generic scifi war movie. (Yes I know Dune was first)
I really loved the first one. I felt it was nearly perfect! My main issue with Dune 2 is with whoever edited the film. The pacing was too fast and character development and exploration wasn’t as much of a focus which meant the stakes of the ((((((((spoiler))))))) destruction of seitch tabr less effective (((((end spoiler))))) There just was not enough time spent on the emotional complexities of Paul’s transition and it felt rushed. Especially since the text is an explicitly anti-colonial allegory. I lay this at the feet of the editors, mostly.
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No, he didn't have the role of Emperor in David Lynch's Dune.
Oh, I see. Meta reference casting. Also, just learned STING was Feyd Ruatha?! And PATRICK STEWART as Gurney?!?? I gotta watch this!!
He's wrong. Christopher Walken didn't play the Emperor in that movie.