They certainly are for the comics. These stories have been rebooted and retconned so many times, we’d need something like the old Lucasfilm EU canon tier lists just to make things a little clearer.
According to Esposito himself, it's barely more than a cameo, but leading to something more. And apparently the reshoots are only 22 days. So likely not much has changed.
I wouldn't mind him playing the older and more vengeful version of Quantumania Kang who finally managed to escape what Scott and Hope did to him. Make him the central Kang threat and show us why the others feared him.
If a post credit sequence was taking 22 days, these films would take *years* to shoot lol. Endgame was in principal for 5 months. A post-credit scene with maybe three different setups isn't taking three weeks.
“Barely more than a cameo, but leading to something more” has been the modus operandi for Marvel ever since Endgame, so yeah that frustratingly tracks.
Just feels like it’s another case now of “Buy tickets to see this two minute scene otherwise you’re gonna be lost when we bring it back up.”
Do you thing he even has to read his scripts anymore? Directors only want him to do one character, he can probably show up acting like Gus Fring and get the feel of the character right even without knowing what the movie is about.
Because it really feels like he has been typecast as Gus Fring.
Dude put in like 3 decades of character actor work and one of the characters finally hit with the zeitgeist. He’s allowed to end his career typecast and rich.
>Despite reports of multiple reshoots on the movie, so far this is the only one. It does not appear to be as extensive as the reshoots that faced Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which lasted six weeks, nor the expensive and extensive reshoots endured by The Marvels. In fact, one insider says Brave New World will cost significantly less than The Marvels overall.
I'm not entirely sure I believe this...
According to Forbes, Dr. Strange 2 had a staggering budget of $413 million, making it more expensive than Avatar 2. The movie certainly doesn't look like a $413 million production. And now seemingly the same thing happening with Captain America 4, how in the hell are Marvel Studios running their production?
Yeah, they don't seem to do the early phases properly? Set up a storyboard, get some key story points and potential shots down, work a lot of the issues out there before real production.
Instead it's like they just start shooting and hope they can put it together in post.
A lot of reshoots in marvel movies are done because of bad test screenings, marvel execs shitting their pants and then demanding reshoots based off the test screenings feedback.
Disney and marvel have a big of a strained relationship, especially because Marvel studios is another hemorrhage source for cash to disney.
Not defending Marvel Studios or anything, but my guess would be that Avatar was fully planned ahead, consisted of a mindbogglingly amount of staged production, and animated by the best VFX technology there is in the industry so the entire budget for that movie went into the final product that we see.
Marvel Studios, on the other hand, is made at high speed and requires a lot of people working crunch time and tend to be fickle, subjected to a lot of changes before arriving to the final product. So a lot of the budget went into stuff that never made it to the screen.
Avatar also depended on development of a whole bunch of new technology, the cost of which can be amortized across all the sequels, along with some of the physical production, too, I’d guess.
It’s just so dumb to me, I don’t remember what the second Dune movie cost but I’m pretty sure it was far less than you’d think because all the CGI shots were meticulously pre planned and the script was probably also finalized before they started shooting.
Marvel on the other hand is busy pissing away money because they change things on the fly and it hasn’t been for the better for a long time. Surely a couple of extra weeks in pre production finalising the script and planning the shoot will save so much over time. The editing process alone must be a nightmare where you’re missing entire sections you have to pretend exist until reshoots happen.
Seems like a cheaper way to make a movie too, having a unified or single voice and vision to create exactly what's needed rather than starting down multiple paths that just get written out and thrown away.
1000%
James Cameron kicked down the doors in Hollywood with the first Terminator movie. It can be hard to see this in modern context, but James Cameron made everybody's heads turn around with Terminator. It was a movie made with a shoe-string budget but this James Cameron nobody was completely confident that he knows how to pull off that movie. He shot every frame of that movie with his own hands. He went into an extreme depth to pull off the effects in the movie all by himself. Every story beats and edits was completely controlled by James Cameron. He handcrafted that whole movie by himself.
Hollywood had never seen a director with this much of confidence and mastery. Terminator launched his career and the craft-making complexity of his movies increased exponentially film by film, breaking many grounds.
James Cameron shot Avatar 2 and the whole of 3rd movie plus the first act of the 4th movie in one go. The reasoning is because the plot arc of the children characters that we saw in the recent Avatar movie will stretch between the second movie and well into the fourth movie before making a time jump for the rest of the fourth movie and the fifth movie. He didn't want the children actors to progressively grow and age a lot in-between those movies if they were shot by the traditional one-film-at-time method.
And you can clearly see in Avatar 2 that every physical camera shots in the movie was 100% by Cameron's hands and/or closely directed shots.
The Avatar sequels were shot in a massive New Zealand film studio facility and James Cameron found out that there was a Amazon's Web Services facility nearby. Cameron and Amazon got into a deal that allowed the Avatar films to be CGI/VFX processed and rendered on a massive Amazon server network in New Zealand.
This director got his film-planning game down to the T.
It's gonna be high regardless. it was impacted by the strikes. Tearing stuff down and bringing stuff back months apart is expensive (as we all saw last year with all the COVID impacted movies)
I liked exactly half of it, which were the most obviously Raimi parts.
So much of it felt like studio meddling though.
When Strange and Mordo had their mandatory Boring Bloodless Zero-Stakes MCU Fistfight^^TM in the Illuminati room it was clear that Disney had fucked with the movie.
That was the weirdest action scene I think I’ve seen in a Marvel movie. Like why did they even have to fight? Was he even part of the Illuminati? If so why did they leave him and Prof X with Strange, and then why did the telepathic Prof X leave Mordo alone with him? I know they wanted Mordo there (to resolve the fact that they set him up as a villain and then forgot about him or whatever) but it’s just an odd waste of screen time for a Dr. Strange fistfight which I don’t think anyone asked for.
You just have to envy Giancarlo Esposito's life. The guy plays the same fucking character in multiple movies, TV shows and even games and producers can't get enough of this shit. Probably only JK "harsh father figure" Simmons has more practice with a single character archetype
Don't forget Kevin "Short/loud/funny guy with lady problems" Hart and Jason "emotionally distant badass with gruff voice and scruffy face" Statham and Michelle "sharp-tongued tough girl in a white tank top who dies" Rodriguez and Samuel L. "Samuel L. Jackson" Jackson.
>Some believe that in terms of its potency and its relevancy, it has the potential to have a similar impact as Black Panther
Some believe the earth is flat
"You've got to do better!"
"How?"
"I don't know, but you just have to try!"
That show was a huge waste of time and the message was so bad and confusing.
I liked the show overall until that moment, which unfortunately killed any desire I had to ever rewatch it. That scene is almost up there with Scott’s Tots for sheer cringe.
*"Do better senator!"*
**"HOW??"**
*Captain falcon gives a thumbs up and then flies away*
Absolute the *last thing* steve would do - give a meaningless monologue speech about fixing issues and then not offer a single
solution or elaboration on the matter before running off.
Worst fucking ending ever.
That was the whole series. It was just shallow wheel-spinning with no thought whatsoever.
... well, except for the one conversation about music. Somebody actually cared about a thing and slipped it into the script. I'm sure plenty of people will roll their eyes and complain about more "Whedonism," but the *rest* of that fucking show was a reminder of how much worse than quippiness and small asides these scripts can get.
The core premise makes no sense.
The people who were dusted...somehow are the ones kicking people out of homes? How does that work they were gone for two years...how would they have the power to displace anyone?
That’s exactly what would happen. When displaced Jews returned to Poland after being liberated they often returned to their homes to find new families had moved in and were even using their stuff.
I don't see how people weren't shouting for blood at the image of Falcon landing with the terrorist's body exactly like a Renaissance painting of an angel holding the body of Christ.
There's on the nose, and then there's through the face and out the brain stem.
I really liked sth like first three episodes, when future U.S. Agent kills a guy with the shield. I was like "goddamn, it's a good character, not being able to step into Steve's shoes, trying his best but ultimately being human who cannot fulfill the idea of Captain America". But then the show tumbled down into this weird messaging about the girl (played by that redhead freckled actress who Disney is hellbent on putting in every fucking IP they posses) who is commiting acts of terrorism yet is somehow portrayed as being in the right.
Ever since Maleficent, every female Disney villain/antagonist is at worst a misunderstood heroine, and we're all worse for it. And in "Falcon and Winter Soldier" this culminated in Sam carrying water for a criminal responsible for deaths of civillians, while scolding elected officials. It really doesn't make a great case for the character, so no wonder this movie is in no rush to hit the theaters.
I’m not as critical as some on the show but I absolutely hated the suit the Wakandans gave him. Like why does he wear a head stocking that covers the bottom 3/4 of his head and not the scalp?
He legit looked way more heroic and badass in jeans and a t shirt in Winter Soldier.
> Like why does he wear a head stocking that covers the bottom 3/4 of his head and not the scalp?
It's because he wears it as both Falcon and Cap in the comics.
But there's a reason they never used the weird half mask for him as Falcon in the MCU, and unfortunately the costume designers here haven't worked out why that is.
Just in general a lot of superhero design cues are rendered unnecessary for a film. In comic books they help make characters immediately distinctive so you could, like, tell who Superman is even though he's looked like a hundred different dudes over the decades drawn by a hundred different people.
But with live-action productions, people are pretty good at telling other people apart, so most flamboyant/flashy/attention-grabbing character designs are way more unnecessary.
Actors don't like their faces getting covered by a mask or helmet because affects their ability to act. Studios don't like actor's faces getting covered too because they paid millions of dollars for that face.
It annoys me to no end that OG Cap (with actual super powers) got a proper helmet, while Falcon Cap (normal human) has his whole damn cranium exposed. Dude is regularly hurtling into things, give the poor guy a real helmet!
I'm really hoping that in the first five minutes he enters a lab where someone is holding a syringe of the serum and accidentally walks into it. Oops, I have super powers now! Otherwise, every fight he's in I'm going to be thinking, that would kill him, that would certainly kill him, that would absolutely kill him.
Couldn't agree more. I have zero interest in this character as a"regular" guy. People freaked out at that criticism during the series, saying he was always just a regular guy as Falcon. Ya, and he was relegated to some sideshow shot in each fight.
I'm cool with Tony Dalton making another MCU appearance in this just so he can say "What's he up to man? What's he doing?" regarding Giancarlo's character
It’s not the same and I’m sorry to say that I’m not interested in the character anymore. Anthony Mackie is a good actor, but this character is no longer a main character.
I was just thinking of Altered Carbon! I loved season 1, but kinda hated 2, in large part due to getting very little from Anthony in the lead. He didn't feel at all like the character from S1, and didn't bring much new to the table that could have made me okay with that.
> He didn't feel at all like the character from S1, and didn't bring much new to the table that could have made me okay with that.
The problem is when you fail at making the character feel the same as the previous one, you have completely failed at making an Altered Carbon story and just made some generic boring-ass sci-fi.
I think most people don't realize he's going to be the lead and there is no more Chris Evans. Chris Evans was Captain America, I have zero interest in watching this. Unless I hear amazing things, I don't see myself going to the movies for Mackie.
Absolutely. People won’t be interested in another captain America, another Thor or another Iron Man. You cannot replace the iconic people behind the mask unless you are rebooting which imo they should have done after the last phase .
I too have 0 interest in watching this.
Mackie ruined season 2 of Altered Carbon. He showed no acting chops. That was the last time he replaced a character in a show... i have little faith this will be much better.
For anyone wondering, word on the street is that the original script had a pretty heavy emphasis on a Marvel character called Sabra.
Sabra, for background, is like the Israeli captain America. She literally wears a Star of David on both her head and chest in the comics.
Given the... current climate... reshoots probably not a terrible idea.
[I don’t see anything to be worried about](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/26110821/unnamed-4.jpg)
As fun as that is, they really incredibly dialed down all Earth politics in the MCU right from the start. Or rather, right after the first Iron Man. In the first Iron Man, there was some impression that it might be about the military industrial complex a bit more and also geopolitics (there was clearly some kind of Iraq / Afghanistan war happening at the time), but later movies seem to have completely abandoned that. As in, at any point in the MCU, can you definitively point out what the US government is like, what their politics are, what the government is doing in general? Not really I think, it's all from the perspective of the heroes and the villains and it just didn't have that global politics character to it.
It's a bit different in the comics, they make some edgy point about things more often. Captain America especially pits "current" US government against Steve Rogers quite a lot.
So yeah Captain Israel is just so out of place in MCU Marvel lol. Funny enough The Boys does have that vibe a lot.
nothing screams quality like reshooting with an entirely new character. I'm sure the story will be unique and cohesive and bringing on Esposito isn't just an attempt at bringing credibility to the film like it was when Far Cry hired him to be a villain.
Yeah, don’t forget took hostages, just straight up murdered people, and committed numerous other violent unlawful acts for no other reason than to promote a feeling of terror and achieve their political goals. It’s a good thing that isn’t the literal definition of terrorism [right](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism)?
And further, said character just inexplicably started doing evil things for no good reason so their actually justifiable motivations can be written off! Classic Marvel.
Also, I didn’t particularly care that Evil Cap killed that bad guy. They killed his partner and best friend and were actively endangering civilians with their actions. I’d rather he didn’t kill, but it didn’t seem like this horrible sin the show made it out to be. I’m supposed to believe Steve never killed anyone?
Nah, Steve reflecting energy beams into people with his shield, the beams that we know are lethal, actually just puts them to sleep. [Kind of like what happens to Bat Man](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f7B2w_VhP0E).
I loved the High Evolutionary in Guardians 3 because he had no sympathetic backstory or motivations. He was an utterly horrible person and that was that.
Sometimes villains are just villains.
he had a motivation: to keep creating different beings and creating his vision of a perfect society. The thing is that you understood it, but also understood why it was wrong and didn't have to be sympathetic to his cause. That's why it worked. He played the part super well, the character's motivations were clear, without trying to be a "but he has a point" type of villain.
He was also a huge hypocrite, because he wanted to make a perfect world with perfect inhabitants... but the moment Rocket turned out to be smarter than him (which a perfect world kinda would imply, right?) it gets him really petty and jealous.
I'm not gonna say that speech singlehandedly killed my hype for this new Captain America movie, but it certainly didn't help. Also the part of his new costume that looks like a diaper over his head is still ridiculous to me.
Basically *'You guys are constantly fucking up and doing super crazy eugenics shit. Black Captain America was right when he said no one should take up the mantle for an institution that has decimated people like me - So I'm going to do the opposite of that and take up Captain America's mantle myself!'*
I liked the show overall until that moment, which unfortunately killed any desire I had to ever rewatch it. That scene is almost up there with Scott’s Tots for sheer cringe.
It’s wild how bad post infinity war the movies have been except for a few. It’s like marvel let someone who doesn’t like the franchise in charge of it and they just try to make movies ticking boxes to appeal to everyone.
That's because the first phases had a plan and goal in mind from the getgo.
They built the Thanos hype for like 10 years and didn't rush it.
Then they absolutely crushed the Iron man and Captain America castings which helped build the verse up.
If you noticed after Endgame they haven't had a clear vision in mind other than the multiverse keeping tons of options open for them.
Mackie is always a decent support character, but he very rarely ever can hold his own as the lead.
He does okay in smaller films like synchronic, but his costars/support actors do a lot of heavy lifting in twisted metal.
Definitely not a leading man, this was very evident with season 2 of Altered Carbon, he was awful as Kovacs, but he's really good in supporting roles like the Adjustment Bureau and The hurt locker.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I don’t inherently dislike the actor, I just think he’s a terrible choice for a franchise carrying role as Captain America.
I also want to reiterate, he’s a phenomenal support actor.
Dude, it seriously was. S1 was possibly the best cyberpunk shows ever made, imho. S2 I couldnt even finish and that is insaaane.
Btw, if anyone disagrees w S1 being best cyberpunk, please tell me whats better cuz id love to watch that lol
I fell in love with S1 of Altered Carbon. S2 felt like... really generic science fiction, man it was disappointing. That show really could have gone places.
So much this. Dude is a great actor and from the recent news about him being the first to check up on Reiner. He is an awesome person.
It just doesn’t work with him being a leader. It feels forced. Yes it did happen in the comic and also it happened with Bucky.
If he had more of a gravitas of a leader then it would have worked.
Look at twisted metal. The show is great and really fun and it works perfect for him. He had that scraper energy and not a leader energy.
I still maintain that non serum Captain America is useless.
In the Falcon and Winter Soldier show everyone gets their asses kicked by the serum people. Even Wyatt Russell’s character, who is shown to be able to hold his own really well, basically loses every fight against an enemy with the serum.
I don’t know, the serum allowed Captain America to do incredible things. Falcon is not like that. He can’t do anything. The minute he fights anyone slightly stronger than him, he’s done outside of plot armor saving his ass. That’s just my opinion though.
They basically ignored the super serum once he got the shield anyways, being able to easily bounce it off walls and embed it 6 inches into tree trunks.
I haven't watched anything since Endgame (except Spider-Man) so I'm out of the loop. Is Sam just going to be a normal human with a suit and a shield and be Captain America? Or is he going to be the Falcon but with a shield? Because it makes zero sense for him to choose a costume and a shield over a suit of armor that is bulletproof and flies and shoots missiles and shit.
Yeah, Bucky is just an overall interesting character with more avenues to go down and the actor is overall better than Mackie.
For me I would have liked to have seen Steve give his friend the Shield knowing Bucky becoming Captain America would put him on a hard path to win over the general public and finally redeem himself from his Winter Soldier days. Even the US Government wouldn't be too happy with Bucky's past reputation.
There was a lot they could have done with it.
Also that scene in the first Captain America film when him and Steve are on the train and Bucky picks up the Shield, I always thought it was foreshadowing it.
I dunno, I wouldn’t trust anyone as Captain America who couldn’t get their family’s boat out from under a mountain of debt. Ya know, being one of the most famous people on the planet, knowing some of the richest people on the planet, and being owed by multiple governments across the planet. If a bank foreclosed on your boat, you don’t have a brain cell.
I know he was brainwashed by HYDRA, but Bucky still murdered many high ranking USA officials. Making him Captain America doesn’t really make sense from a narrative standpoint. The guy who is a decorated member of the US Air Force is a better fit.
I mean Tony Stark basically got thousands of people killed and wiped a nation off the planet by halfassing his Ultron project and didn't have to go to prison. There's a sliding scale of forgiveness in comics
Reshoots were also removing a character from the first draft, an Israeli Mossad agent.
Marvel just completely sucks at timing these days. Falcon & Winter Soldier had to be reshoot because of Covid (plot point has the bad guys trying to unleash a virus to make the population post-Thanos snap again), Secret Invasion had to reshoot because of the invasion in Ukraine (lots of Russia vs US stuff removed including a fight scene at Chernobyl), then Brave New World with a Mossad operative superhero and love interest for Captain Falcon.
They should’ve kept the covid and russia plots, the controversy would’ve gotten more people to care about those shows. Also, I’ve never seen the falcon winter soldier show and if it was about that I would watch it
Yeah I don’t get why there’s always one of those comments in every thread about everything, the ol’ “this is either gonna be sooo good or absolutely terrible,” and it’s always a top comment. It’s like everyone’s gearing themselves up to choose a side and then ride or die with their team.
I’m excited for Captain America too and I hope to love it, but I might not or I might think it’s ok. You might feel differently about it and that’s ok too, let’s just not yuck anyone else’s yum.
>It's either going to be a trainwreck or great, no inbetween.
90% of the time people say this it does in fact end up being inbetween by being "just okay".
So I'm gonna say, no one wants to see Mackie as Cap. They should of canned the whole thing and reconn. Just loke they are basically with the like 5 years of movies and shows
If hypothetically this film does turn out terrible, I don't want Hollywood / Marvel to turn it into a "it's only being hated on because of racists". I'm tired of people with criticism being grouped together with awful trolls because grouping everyone together to make them all look like awful people is a great PR move for the studio to divert all attention away from the films quality. Journalists then talk about toxic fanbases instead while the fanbase go at each others throats.
can someone explain to me what
Anthony Mackie as hero Sam Wilson can do as Captain America?
isn't he just a nice gymnast in a wet suit who can throw a shield.
> Why on earth didn't Marvel immediately pivot to X-Men when the main MCU guys retired?
They didn't own the actual rights to Xmen until mid 2020 when the Fox sale finalized (which, by then, had the pandemic in full swing). By then they had several movies and D+shows in the pipeline, which meant that they couldn't even make something fit in their schedule even if they wanted to. Add that to the fact that any development on the project would take at least a year to do, and they were basically strapped for time. Didn't help that Chapek continued iger's ridiculous pacing and so their output was stretched already. So it was a huge logistics issue with strained resources (because everyone was being laid off too).
It should have been Bucky.
Mackie looks awesome as the Falcon but ridiculous with the shield.
Captain America should be enhanced.
This movie has already failed spectacularly. When your star is threatening to walk because you're shooting from outlines instead of scripts, you are in TROUBLE.
(Yes this is a rumor. I'm allowed to believe it.)
edit: guess the rumors had some merit.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/captain-america-brave-new-world-reshoots-1235912919/
So this movie has a completely new script at this point, right??? Because we have a new villain and that changes everything.
Captain America: Brave New Script
Brave New Plot
New Word Order.
Oh, that's good
Brave New Words
But, but, but the algorithm
It was the algorithm all along.
The Script of Theseus
This is what happens when you don't have a proper Vision on what you want.
What are rewrites but IP persevering?
A script isn't beautiful because it lasts...
But this script was born yesterday.
They certainly are for the comics. These stories have been rebooted and retconned so many times, we’d need something like the old Lucasfilm EU canon tier lists just to make things a little clearer.
Captain America: Second Draft.
Captain America: Delayed Til Winter
According to Esposito himself, it's barely more than a cameo, but leading to something more. And apparently the reshoots are only 22 days. So likely not much has changed.
He’s old Kang
I wouldn't mind him playing the older and more vengeful version of Quantumania Kang who finally managed to escape what Scott and Hope did to him. Make him the central Kang threat and show us why the others feared him.
"Look it's me, I'm here, deal with it. Let's move on"
Ever drunk Bailey's from a shoe?
That would actually be perfect. In a multiverse, no reason not to have one of the Kangs last until he's older and wiser and more dangerous.
You called it
Everything that's been said points to it being the post-credits scene to set up another film.
22 days of shooting is much more than a 60 second post credit scene though.
If a post credit sequence was taking 22 days, these films would take *years* to shoot lol. Endgame was in principal for 5 months. A post-credit scene with maybe three different setups isn't taking three weeks.
GianKANGo!!!
“Only 22 days” is crazy considering I own full films shot in less time that that, but I agree there’s a lot of overreacting in this thread.
I say only 22 days because the original rumors were 6 months lol
“Barely more than a cameo, but leading to something more” has been the modus operandi for Marvel ever since Endgame, so yeah that frustratingly tracks. Just feels like it’s another case now of “Buy tickets to see this two minute scene otherwise you’re gonna be lost when we bring it back up.”
That doesn't make any sense because by the time they bring it up again that 2 minute scene will be all over YouTube.
Could be a tease of his character for a future movie rather than a leading role in this.
He said in an interview it would be a tease followed by a series. Don’t have the link right now
Any guesses who Giancarlo is playing?
Probably a mild mannered villain like always
Do you thing he even has to read his scripts anymore? Directors only want him to do one character, he can probably show up acting like Gus Fring and get the feel of the character right even without knowing what the movie is about. Because it really feels like he has been typecast as Gus Fring.
He's definitely been typecasted since Breaking Bad. I haven't liked a roll he's done since that show
Dude put in like 3 decades of character actor work and one of the characters finally hit with the zeitgeist. He’s allowed to end his career typecast and rich.
I heard someone float him as Professor X. I think he would actually kill it as Professor X.
I'm secretly hoping he's Norman Osborne, and we're getting an Iron Patriot/Dark Avengers thing soon.
Are we finally going to get a comics-accurate Norman with a waves hairdo?
They are having multiple actors play Kang now so he could be one.
>Despite reports of multiple reshoots on the movie, so far this is the only one. It does not appear to be as extensive as the reshoots that faced Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which lasted six weeks, nor the expensive and extensive reshoots endured by The Marvels. In fact, one insider says Brave New World will cost significantly less than The Marvels overall. I'm not entirely sure I believe this...
Yeah, I’m still expecting a final budget of at least $300M
According to Forbes, Dr. Strange 2 had a staggering budget of $413 million, making it more expensive than Avatar 2. The movie certainly doesn't look like a $413 million production. And now seemingly the same thing happening with Captain America 4, how in the hell are Marvel Studios running their production?
Micromanaging and changing massive parts of the movie after it has already finished - it's literally right there in the article.
Yeah, they don't seem to do the early phases properly? Set up a storyboard, get some key story points and potential shots down, work a lot of the issues out there before real production. Instead it's like they just start shooting and hope they can put it together in post.
A lot of reshoots in marvel movies are done because of bad test screenings, marvel execs shitting their pants and then demanding reshoots based off the test screenings feedback. Disney and marvel have a big of a strained relationship, especially because Marvel studios is another hemorrhage source for cash to disney.
This just makes me imagine that Marvel screenings are very similar to all the public forums on Parks and Rec.
Ham and mayonnaise! Ham and mayonnaise!
Not defending Marvel Studios or anything, but my guess would be that Avatar was fully planned ahead, consisted of a mindbogglingly amount of staged production, and animated by the best VFX technology there is in the industry so the entire budget for that movie went into the final product that we see. Marvel Studios, on the other hand, is made at high speed and requires a lot of people working crunch time and tend to be fickle, subjected to a lot of changes before arriving to the final product. So a lot of the budget went into stuff that never made it to the screen.
Avatar also depended on development of a whole bunch of new technology, the cost of which can be amortized across all the sequels, along with some of the physical production, too, I’d guess.
It’s just so dumb to me, I don’t remember what the second Dune movie cost but I’m pretty sure it was far less than you’d think because all the CGI shots were meticulously pre planned and the script was probably also finalized before they started shooting. Marvel on the other hand is busy pissing away money because they change things on the fly and it hasn’t been for the better for a long time. Surely a couple of extra weeks in pre production finalising the script and planning the shoot will save so much over time. The editing process alone must be a nightmare where you’re missing entire sections you have to pretend exist until reshoots happen.
Seems like a cheaper way to make a movie too, having a unified or single voice and vision to create exactly what's needed rather than starting down multiple paths that just get written out and thrown away.
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1000% James Cameron kicked down the doors in Hollywood with the first Terminator movie. It can be hard to see this in modern context, but James Cameron made everybody's heads turn around with Terminator. It was a movie made with a shoe-string budget but this James Cameron nobody was completely confident that he knows how to pull off that movie. He shot every frame of that movie with his own hands. He went into an extreme depth to pull off the effects in the movie all by himself. Every story beats and edits was completely controlled by James Cameron. He handcrafted that whole movie by himself. Hollywood had never seen a director with this much of confidence and mastery. Terminator launched his career and the craft-making complexity of his movies increased exponentially film by film, breaking many grounds. James Cameron shot Avatar 2 and the whole of 3rd movie plus the first act of the 4th movie in one go. The reasoning is because the plot arc of the children characters that we saw in the recent Avatar movie will stretch between the second movie and well into the fourth movie before making a time jump for the rest of the fourth movie and the fifth movie. He didn't want the children actors to progressively grow and age a lot in-between those movies if they were shot by the traditional one-film-at-time method. And you can clearly see in Avatar 2 that every physical camera shots in the movie was 100% by Cameron's hands and/or closely directed shots. The Avatar sequels were shot in a massive New Zealand film studio facility and James Cameron found out that there was a Amazon's Web Services facility nearby. Cameron and Amazon got into a deal that allowed the Avatar films to be CGI/VFX processed and rendered on a massive Amazon server network in New Zealand. This director got his film-planning game down to the T.
It's gonna be high regardless. it was impacted by the strikes. Tearing stuff down and bringing stuff back months apart is expensive (as we all saw last year with all the COVID impacted movies)
six fucking weeks on Doc Strange 2? I so badly want to read the original script now
I think Raimi kinda got fucked over, half the movie feels like it has a different director.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who really really likes that one. 🤷♂️
I liked exactly half of it, which were the most obviously Raimi parts. So much of it felt like studio meddling though. When Strange and Mordo had their mandatory Boring Bloodless Zero-Stakes MCU Fistfight^^TM in the Illuminati room it was clear that Disney had fucked with the movie.
That was the weirdest action scene I think I’ve seen in a Marvel movie. Like why did they even have to fight? Was he even part of the Illuminati? If so why did they leave him and Prof X with Strange, and then why did the telepathic Prof X leave Mordo alone with him? I know they wanted Mordo there (to resolve the fact that they set him up as a villain and then forgot about him or whatever) but it’s just an odd waste of screen time for a Dr. Strange fistfight which I don’t think anyone asked for.
Good to know, in case anyone was wondering whether there will be an unassuming, yet highly intelligent villain mastermind character in the movie.
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Are they going to speak eloquently in a curt and cutting manner?
You just have to envy Giancarlo Esposito's life. The guy plays the same fucking character in multiple movies, TV shows and even games and producers can't get enough of this shit. Probably only JK "harsh father figure" Simmons has more practice with a single character archetype
Don't forget Kevin "Short/loud/funny guy with lady problems" Hart and Jason "emotionally distant badass with gruff voice and scruffy face" Statham and Michelle "sharp-tongued tough girl in a white tank top who dies" Rodriguez and Samuel L. "Samuel L. Jackson" Jackson.
>Some believe that in terms of its potency and its relevancy, it has the potential to have a similar impact as Black Panther Some believe the earth is flat
I bet they thought Sam's "You've got to do better senator" speech would have a similar impact to Black Panther too.
"Stop calling her a terrorist" \**a few episodes earlier...*\* "why'd you kill those innocent people?!"
"You've got to do better!" "How?" "I don't know, but you just have to try!" That show was a huge waste of time and the message was so bad and confusing.
I liked the show overall until that moment, which unfortunately killed any desire I had to ever rewatch it. That scene is almost up there with Scott’s Tots for sheer cringe.
*"Do better senator!"* **"HOW??"** *Captain falcon gives a thumbs up and then flies away* Absolute the *last thing* steve would do - give a meaningless monologue speech about fixing issues and then not offer a single solution or elaboration on the matter before running off. Worst fucking ending ever.
That was the whole series. It was just shallow wheel-spinning with no thought whatsoever. ... well, except for the one conversation about music. Somebody actually cared about a thing and slipped it into the script. I'm sure plenty of people will roll their eyes and complain about more "Whedonism," but the *rest* of that fucking show was a reminder of how much worse than quippiness and small asides these scripts can get.
The core premise makes no sense. The people who were dusted...somehow are the ones kicking people out of homes? How does that work they were gone for two years...how would they have the power to displace anyone?
it should be reversed the people who returned should feel isolated and excluded
That’s exactly what would happen. When displaced Jews returned to Poland after being liberated they often returned to their homes to find new families had moved in and were even using their stuff.
its intresting because you see how the writters view politics they think politicans should do better but offer nothing about how
I don't see how people weren't shouting for blood at the image of Falcon landing with the terrorist's body exactly like a Renaissance painting of an angel holding the body of Christ. There's on the nose, and then there's through the face and out the brain stem.
I really liked sth like first three episodes, when future U.S. Agent kills a guy with the shield. I was like "goddamn, it's a good character, not being able to step into Steve's shoes, trying his best but ultimately being human who cannot fulfill the idea of Captain America". But then the show tumbled down into this weird messaging about the girl (played by that redhead freckled actress who Disney is hellbent on putting in every fucking IP they posses) who is commiting acts of terrorism yet is somehow portrayed as being in the right. Ever since Maleficent, every female Disney villain/antagonist is at worst a misunderstood heroine, and we're all worse for it. And in "Falcon and Winter Soldier" this culminated in Sam carrying water for a criminal responsible for deaths of civillians, while scolding elected officials. It really doesn't make a great case for the character, so no wonder this movie is in no rush to hit the theaters.
It barely nudged the envelope and pretended that was groundbreaking in true corporate fashion.
This movie is going to have the impact of a half filled water balloon.
The suit looks like Captain A Train. It’s the head/goggles part.
I’m not as critical as some on the show but I absolutely hated the suit the Wakandans gave him. Like why does he wear a head stocking that covers the bottom 3/4 of his head and not the scalp? He legit looked way more heroic and badass in jeans and a t shirt in Winter Soldier.
> Like why does he wear a head stocking that covers the bottom 3/4 of his head and not the scalp? It's because he wears it as both Falcon and Cap in the comics. But there's a reason they never used the weird half mask for him as Falcon in the MCU, and unfortunately the costume designers here haven't worked out why that is.
Just in general a lot of superhero design cues are rendered unnecessary for a film. In comic books they help make characters immediately distinctive so you could, like, tell who Superman is even though he's looked like a hundred different dudes over the decades drawn by a hundred different people. But with live-action productions, people are pretty good at telling other people apart, so most flamboyant/flashy/attention-grabbing character designs are way more unnecessary.
Actors don't like their faces getting covered by a mask or helmet because affects their ability to act. Studios don't like actor's faces getting covered too because they paid millions of dollars for that face.
What would you prefer? Yellow spandex?
It annoys me to no end that OG Cap (with actual super powers) got a proper helmet, while Falcon Cap (normal human) has his whole damn cranium exposed. Dude is regularly hurtling into things, give the poor guy a real helmet!
In the TV show, they really, really needed him to be accidentally or maliciously shot up with super-soldier serum.
I'm really hoping that in the first five minutes he enters a lab where someone is holding a syringe of the serum and accidentally walks into it. Oops, I have super powers now! Otherwise, every fight he's in I'm going to be thinking, that would kill him, that would certainly kill him, that would absolutely kill him.
Without powers, It would basically be the Black Widow advil scene for a whole film lol
Couldn't agree more. I have zero interest in this character as a"regular" guy. People freaked out at that criticism during the series, saying he was always just a regular guy as Falcon. Ya, and he was relegated to some sideshow shot in each fight.
We're really not calling him Captain Falcon?
*Nintendo Special Lawyer Team 6 breaks into your home*
Nintendo Lawyers vs Disney Lawyers is honestly the most climactic showdown we could get compared to Infinity War.
> The suit looks like Captain A Train. You're right, I'll never unsee this now :(
I'm cool with Tony Dalton making another MCU appearance in this just so he can say "What's he up to man? What's he doing?" regarding Giancarlo's character
Werner Ziegler
WERNEERRRR ZIIEEEEGLERRRRRRR
It’s not the same and I’m sorry to say that I’m not interested in the character anymore. Anthony Mackie is a good actor, but this character is no longer a main character.
He is a good side actor. But the dude absolutely cannot lead a movie. Marvel is betting on the wrong horse here
Look no further than Altered Carbon. He is an okay actor. That’s not what you want for a lead though, especially for something like Captain America.
I was just thinking of Altered Carbon! I loved season 1, but kinda hated 2, in large part due to getting very little from Anthony in the lead. He didn't feel at all like the character from S1, and didn't bring much new to the table that could have made me okay with that.
> He didn't feel at all like the character from S1, and didn't bring much new to the table that could have made me okay with that. The problem is when you fail at making the character feel the same as the previous one, you have completely failed at making an Altered Carbon story and just made some generic boring-ass sci-fi.
And he is just a guy with a shield, not even the super soldier stuff so he is down graded in his powers.
I think most people don't realize he's going to be the lead and there is no more Chris Evans. Chris Evans was Captain America, I have zero interest in watching this. Unless I hear amazing things, I don't see myself going to the movies for Mackie.
Absolutely. People won’t be interested in another captain America, another Thor or another Iron Man. You cannot replace the iconic people behind the mask unless you are rebooting which imo they should have done after the last phase . I too have 0 interest in watching this.
Interestingly, the emotions you are feeling are literally the exact plot of the falcon becoming captain America in the comics.
I'd watch Zemo tho
Mackie ruined season 2 of Altered Carbon. He showed no acting chops. That was the last time he replaced a character in a show... i have little faith this will be much better.
For anyone wondering, word on the street is that the original script had a pretty heavy emphasis on a Marvel character called Sabra. Sabra, for background, is like the Israeli captain America. She literally wears a Star of David on both her head and chest in the comics. Given the... current climate... reshoots probably not a terrible idea.
[I don’t see anything to be worried about](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/26110821/unnamed-4.jpg)
Yikes. No wonder they changed the character entirely.
Part of me wishing the movie came out at the same time as the war.
🍿
As fun as that is, they really incredibly dialed down all Earth politics in the MCU right from the start. Or rather, right after the first Iron Man. In the first Iron Man, there was some impression that it might be about the military industrial complex a bit more and also geopolitics (there was clearly some kind of Iraq / Afghanistan war happening at the time), but later movies seem to have completely abandoned that. As in, at any point in the MCU, can you definitively point out what the US government is like, what their politics are, what the government is doing in general? Not really I think, it's all from the perspective of the heroes and the villains and it just didn't have that global politics character to it. It's a bit different in the comics, they make some edgy point about things more often. Captain America especially pits "current" US government against Steve Rogers quite a lot. So yeah Captain Israel is just so out of place in MCU Marvel lol. Funny enough The Boys does have that vibe a lot.
Now I’m curious how that timeline played out lol
Isn’t that a hummus brand
That was a bad move even before the current climate
Keep your Israeli military propaganda out of my American military propaganda movie.
nothing screams quality like reshooting with an entirely new character. I'm sure the story will be unique and cohesive and bringing on Esposito isn't just an attempt at bringing credibility to the film like it was when Far Cry hired him to be a villain.
I thought it was coming out soon cuz they had toys in my kid’s happy meal for it, but now they’re doing reshoots? Wut?
They delayed the film a whole year but kept some of the licensing deals, so that's why you're getting happy meal toys for a movie that's not out yet.
It's interesting to watch MARVEL enter its DC era.
And if James Gunn cooks, DC enters its Marvel era.
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Who remembers Falcon‘s speech at the end with the politician? Absolutely shit the bed
Hey! He said do better!
maybe after all these years since FatWS we'll have the answer to the eternal question. Did the senator do better?
"You got to stop calling these reshoots...you have to do better."
i liked the part where he said the person that blew up a building full of people wasnt a terrorist.
And the show paints it as him being correct on the issue even though it’s abundantly obvious he’s not. It’s honestly very funny.
Trying to change what is objectively right or wrong. i.e terrorism is okay if the motive is cool. It's not
Yeah, don’t forget took hostages, just straight up murdered people, and committed numerous other violent unlawful acts for no other reason than to promote a feeling of terror and achieve their political goals. It’s a good thing that isn’t the literal definition of terrorism [right](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism)?
And further, said character just inexplicably started doing evil things for no good reason so their actually justifiable motivations can be written off! Classic Marvel.
Also, I didn’t particularly care that Evil Cap killed that bad guy. They killed his partner and best friend and were actively endangering civilians with their actions. I’d rather he didn’t kill, but it didn’t seem like this horrible sin the show made it out to be. I’m supposed to believe Steve never killed anyone?
Nah, Steve reflecting energy beams into people with his shield, the beams that we know are lethal, actually just puts them to sleep. [Kind of like what happens to Bat Man](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f7B2w_VhP0E).
Dude in the first Howling Commando montage they breach a room and Cap is leading the charge with his 1911. Are they retconning that to blanks now?
it wasn't her fault. it was because generational trauma or some fuckin' bullshit like that.
I loved the High Evolutionary in Guardians 3 because he had no sympathetic backstory or motivations. He was an utterly horrible person and that was that. Sometimes villains are just villains.
he had a motivation: to keep creating different beings and creating his vision of a perfect society. The thing is that you understood it, but also understood why it was wrong and didn't have to be sympathetic to his cause. That's why it worked. He played the part super well, the character's motivations were clear, without trying to be a "but he has a point" type of villain.
He was also a huge hypocrite, because he wanted to make a perfect world with perfect inhabitants... but the moment Rocket turned out to be smarter than him (which a perfect world kinda would imply, right?) it gets him really petty and jealous.
I'm not gonna say that speech singlehandedly killed my hype for this new Captain America movie, but it certainly didn't help. Also the part of his new costume that looks like a diaper over his head is still ridiculous to me.
I remember that it happened but I don't remember anything he actually said.
Basically *'You guys are constantly fucking up and doing super crazy eugenics shit. Black Captain America was right when he said no one should take up the mantle for an institution that has decimated people like me - So I'm going to do the opposite of that and take up Captain America's mantle myself!'*
I liked the show overall until that moment, which unfortunately killed any desire I had to ever rewatch it. That scene is almost up there with Scott’s Tots for sheer cringe.
Wait how many villains are going to be in this? There’s the Leader, Red Hulk, apparently the Serpent Society but they were cut, and now another one?
Tim Blake Nelson is in the cast according to the article. Please tell me he's playing The Leader! edit: confirmed on IMDB. Fantastic
Returning to the MCU nearly 17 years later is wild.
Hopefully he won’t be cut last minute… They won’t be Dune this 2 me again.
I mean he is the main villain along with the red hulk.
I wish they changed the name back to New World Order. Brave new world sounds kinda corny to me.
I can only imagine how it'll possibly make sense in the context of the movie. *"We living in some kinda, brave new world?"*
My favorite part is when Cap said "It's Brave New Worldin' Time"
This movie is going to bomb hard like other recent marvel movies ain't it
It’s wild how bad post infinity war the movies have been except for a few. It’s like marvel let someone who doesn’t like the franchise in charge of it and they just try to make movies ticking boxes to appeal to everyone.
That's because the first phases had a plan and goal in mind from the getgo. They built the Thanos hype for like 10 years and didn't rush it. Then they absolutely crushed the Iron man and Captain America castings which helped build the verse up. If you noticed after Endgame they haven't had a clear vision in mind other than the multiverse keeping tons of options open for them.
Bucky should have been cap. Not to mention Sam has the screen presence of a wet paper towel.
Mackie is always a decent support character, but he very rarely ever can hold his own as the lead. He does okay in smaller films like synchronic, but his costars/support actors do a lot of heavy lifting in twisted metal.
Definitely not a leading man, this was very evident with season 2 of Altered Carbon, he was awful as Kovacs, but he's really good in supporting roles like the Adjustment Bureau and The hurt locker.
I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t inherently dislike the actor, I just think he’s a terrible choice for a franchise carrying role as Captain America. I also want to reiterate, he’s a phenomenal support actor.
God damn Altered Carbon season 2 was a travesty.
Dude, it seriously was. S1 was possibly the best cyberpunk shows ever made, imho. S2 I couldnt even finish and that is insaaane. Btw, if anyone disagrees w S1 being best cyberpunk, please tell me whats better cuz id love to watch that lol
I fell in love with S1 of Altered Carbon. S2 felt like... really generic science fiction, man it was disappointing. That show really could have gone places.
He's awesome in Hurt Locker.
So much this. Dude is a great actor and from the recent news about him being the first to check up on Reiner. He is an awesome person. It just doesn’t work with him being a leader. It feels forced. Yes it did happen in the comic and also it happened with Bucky. If he had more of a gravitas of a leader then it would have worked. Look at twisted metal. The show is great and really fun and it works perfect for him. He had that scraper energy and not a leader energy.
I still maintain that non serum Captain America is useless. In the Falcon and Winter Soldier show everyone gets their asses kicked by the serum people. Even Wyatt Russell’s character, who is shown to be able to hold his own really well, basically loses every fight against an enemy with the serum. I don’t know, the serum allowed Captain America to do incredible things. Falcon is not like that. He can’t do anything. The minute he fights anyone slightly stronger than him, he’s done outside of plot armor saving his ass. That’s just my opinion though.
They basically ignored the super serum once he got the shield anyways, being able to easily bounce it off walls and embed it 6 inches into tree trunks.
This pissed me off so much.
I haven't watched anything since Endgame (except Spider-Man) so I'm out of the loop. Is Sam just going to be a normal human with a suit and a shield and be Captain America? Or is he going to be the Falcon but with a shield? Because it makes zero sense for him to choose a costume and a shield over a suit of armor that is bulletproof and flies and shoots missiles and shit.
Both. Falcon-like equipment plus shield and captain title/suit.
Yeah, Bucky is just an overall interesting character with more avenues to go down and the actor is overall better than Mackie. For me I would have liked to have seen Steve give his friend the Shield knowing Bucky becoming Captain America would put him on a hard path to win over the general public and finally redeem himself from his Winter Soldier days. Even the US Government wouldn't be too happy with Bucky's past reputation. There was a lot they could have done with it. Also that scene in the first Captain America film when him and Steve are on the train and Bucky picks up the Shield, I always thought it was foreshadowing it.
I dunno, I wouldn’t trust anyone as Captain America who couldn’t get their family’s boat out from under a mountain of debt. Ya know, being one of the most famous people on the planet, knowing some of the richest people on the planet, and being owed by multiple governments across the planet. If a bank foreclosed on your boat, you don’t have a brain cell.
I know he was brainwashed by HYDRA, but Bucky still murdered many high ranking USA officials. Making him Captain America doesn’t really make sense from a narrative standpoint. The guy who is a decorated member of the US Air Force is a better fit.
I mean Tony Stark basically got thousands of people killed and wiped a nation off the planet by halfassing his Ultron project and didn't have to go to prison. There's a sliding scale of forgiveness in comics
Yeah but Tony wasn’t chosen to represent America or anything like that. He’s a controversial rich dude.
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Reshoots were also removing a character from the first draft, an Israeli Mossad agent. Marvel just completely sucks at timing these days. Falcon & Winter Soldier had to be reshoot because of Covid (plot point has the bad guys trying to unleash a virus to make the population post-Thanos snap again), Secret Invasion had to reshoot because of the invasion in Ukraine (lots of Russia vs US stuff removed including a fight scene at Chernobyl), then Brave New World with a Mossad operative superhero and love interest for Captain Falcon.
They should’ve kept the covid and russia plots, the controversy would’ve gotten more people to care about those shows. Also, I’ve never seen the falcon winter soldier show and if it was about that I would watch it
Why is that. It could absolutely be perfectly average. There's actually a good chance it's exactly that.
Yeah I don’t get why there’s always one of those comments in every thread about everything, the ol’ “this is either gonna be sooo good or absolutely terrible,” and it’s always a top comment. It’s like everyone’s gearing themselves up to choose a side and then ride or die with their team. I’m excited for Captain America too and I hope to love it, but I might not or I might think it’s ok. You might feel differently about it and that’s ok too, let’s just not yuck anyone else’s yum.
>It's either going to be a trainwreck or great, no inbetween. 90% of the time people say this it does in fact end up being inbetween by being "just okay".
I feel like this is going to flop.
The next great box office bomb. No one gives a fuck about Falcon
100% this is gonna flop so hard
So I'm gonna say, no one wants to see Mackie as Cap. They should of canned the whole thing and reconn. Just loke they are basically with the like 5 years of movies and shows
If hypothetically this film does turn out terrible, I don't want Hollywood / Marvel to turn it into a "it's only being hated on because of racists". I'm tired of people with criticism being grouped together with awful trolls because grouping everyone together to make them all look like awful people is a great PR move for the studio to divert all attention away from the films quality. Journalists then talk about toxic fanbases instead while the fanbase go at each others throats.
It’s gonna be so bad lol
We are so (not) back!! Man… Deadpool and Wolverine might be the last time I see Marvel in theatres.
You need to do better, senator
Captain America: No one gives a shit now.
can someone explain to me what Anthony Mackie as hero Sam Wilson can do as Captain America? isn't he just a nice gymnast in a wet suit who can throw a shield.
Oh this is gonna be BAD.
Usually a great sign... That this movie will stink. What's next they are hirng Zach Snyder for the the script?
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> Why on earth didn't Marvel immediately pivot to X-Men when the main MCU guys retired? They didn't own the actual rights to Xmen until mid 2020 when the Fox sale finalized (which, by then, had the pandemic in full swing). By then they had several movies and D+shows in the pipeline, which meant that they couldn't even make something fit in their schedule even if they wanted to. Add that to the fact that any development on the project would take at least a year to do, and they were basically strapped for time. Didn't help that Chapek continued iger's ridiculous pacing and so their output was stretched already. So it was a huge logistics issue with strained resources (because everyone was being laid off too).
Remember kids, extensive reshoots are a massive red flag that the movie stinks.
It should have been Bucky. Mackie looks awesome as the Falcon but ridiculous with the shield. Captain America should be enhanced. This movie has already failed spectacularly. When your star is threatening to walk because you're shooting from outlines instead of scripts, you are in TROUBLE. (Yes this is a rumor. I'm allowed to believe it.) edit: guess the rumors had some merit. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/captain-america-brave-new-world-reshoots-1235912919/