Setting aside the garment rending that's being done on MSNBC because it'll end up in a ten part podcast, let's look at last night. That so called debate was set up perfectly for the likes of Trump. He could lie and make racist comments without being interrupted. When asked direct questions he could lie and make racist statements and go off on bizarre tangents - all of it uninterrupted. Biden came in with a hoarse voice and way too many facts right out of the brain of some policy wonk on an ego high. Joe Biden is best when he's Uncle Joe and not someone who sounds like a grad school thesis.
Yeah, I remember some pundit saying on Wednesday that THE ONE THING Biden should not do was what Biden did do (i.e., “If you’re explaining, you’re losing”).
I got so tired of the “Number one: _____, number two: ______,” etc.
And, either he forgot to remember he was on television… and that the cameras would be on him the entire time… or nobody told him.
Those split screens were surreal; a couple of times I actually wondered if he was having a mini-stroke.
What an awful night.
It’s not “bed wetting” to make an honest assessment of what we saw with our own eyes. I would vote for my ailing deaf dog before I voted for Trump—make no mistake.
Biden has an incredible record. He stabilized the economy post-Covid, unemployment is at a record low. It’s really impressive. He’s a patriotic, decent human being. But in the world of Tik-Tok spin clips, most low-information voters see the “look at old man Biden” clips and nothing else.
Biden had a few jobs last night and he didn’t get them done. His performance was a disaster and only exacerbated all of the fears swing voters have about him. We need to be honest about that.
Trump is a despicable traitor. He will annihilate what’s left of democracy and civil rights in this country. We need to be real about this situation. A new candidate would be a mess but after that debate, pretending like swing voters will forget Biden’s performance and Trump’s campaign won’t weaponize it into the ground is pure delusion. It’s not simply seeing unflattering articles of clips on TV anymore. Social media can and is already running with this.
The stakes are too high to bury our heads in the sand. I don’t have a good answer but it’s not fair to cast those of us who are concerned as “bed wetters”.
People on this sub prefer to live in delusion. The comments are quite literally telling you that people don’t want the “negative spin,” so they ignore their favorite programs.
HAHA. Thank you for the first real good laugh of the day.
I've already had to unfollow a few podcasts and people on Threads today. The negative spin is not helpful.
I received my MSNBC survey email this morning and I let my disappointment with their coverage be known.
I thought Hayes, O'Donnell and Maddow were the most able to share perspective and big picture the debate during last night's post debate coverage. Everyone else's hair was on fire.
Seriously. As Fetterman said in his Op Ed, “chill the F out”. I hate that they are giving air time to further degrading Biden. How is this helpful? The guy had a bad night, move the fuck on!
By Joe saving his legacy and releasing delegets to Harris. If not, he will go down as stubbornly sinking the ship of state cause of his ego.
Harris/Cuban
This is how you lose elections - causing division within the party.
We already know how great a President Joe can be - he's proven it. And we know how bad trump was - he's proven it as well.
No more teeth gnashing and hand wringing. It's time for the Dems to have Joe's back like the mob that backs trump supports him after every indictment, felony judgement, etc.
I know we are all scared shitless of reliving 2016 - so let's all work together.
I don’t know exactly where I stand in all this nonsense. I’m kind of working through it, honestly.
But this hypocrisy is fucking RIPE with people on the left. GOP is a cult. GOP is living in a different reality. Dems don’t worship their politicians, they think for themselves and don’t blindly follow their leaders off a cliff. We’ve heard them all. But now, when Biden is literally glitching on the world’s biggest stage in the campaign’s most consequential moment?
- “We need to back our guy like MAGA backs theirs.”
I understand I’ll get downvoted and blocked, but whatever. I can’t deal with this shit anymore, far too depressing. MAGA sure is a cult, though. I do agree with that much.
It will go down as the most selfish act in history if he stays in.
Dems are fools if they think they can beat Trump with Biden.
You are conceding election to Trump.
Weak.
If he resigned office, she would be 1st female potus and her numbers would go up.
Stick with Joe and we are going to lose.
Poll today from New Jersey has Trump up 1. That isnt supposed to be a swing state.
If Biden truly wants to save democracy he needs to pick his successor and let them use what little runway remains.
I doubt Biden will live 4 more years.
Remembering how some conservatives literally cried in fear of an Obama presidency, I really don't think they're down with having a female poc in office.
I appreciated Michael Steele's "Calm Down" segment on Joy's show this evening and it looks like she did too.
It's important not to overreact. It's OK to think about options but the reaction can be worse than the thing.
Yeah, I'd say that if you want an opinion that the debate went well, head on over to your RW sites of choice. Although they're all doing laundry today, due to their soiling the sheets last night.
Could be any / all of a number of things...
- It was said he had a cold (I'll give some credence to this, but it sure looked like he improved today!)
- Some people think he was overprepared -- you could see the numbers / facts running around in his head.
- As you know, he's battled a stutter his entire life -- and my guess is that he sometimes finds he's going to use a word that's going to potentially trigger it, and looks for another way to phrase what he wanted to say.
- His voice was raspy. The cold may have contributed to it. But that's not uncommon for him, tbh.
- Besides the stutter, he's been given to malaprops most of his public life. That was also exhibited last night with his 'I beat medicare' comment (ostensibly the worst of his errors).
- With no fact checking in real-time by the moderators, Joe likely felt he was going to have to do it -- but doing that distracted him from his own answers, and robbed him of time.
- Speaking of time, and observing it... Joe is often deferential to a fault, and immediately stopping when his time ended is just the latest example of that.
- You can tell he has an intense dislike of TFG (supposedly, he himself coined 'TSF' ('the sick fuck'). Why do I mention this? Well, as you probably know, if if fills you up with rage to even \*see\* someone, much less need to interact with someone you dislike intensely... it can interfere with your thought patterns (you see him get his Irish up whenever TFG talks about Joe's kids). I speak of this from personal experience, and it may not apply to him.
Now, with all of those things (and there are probably others, I'm sure)...
Today's Joe was in a less-threatening environment -- he wasn't going to have to answer questions on the fly, and he knew what he wanted to say. When that's the case, his voice is much stronger. Yes, the teleprompter helps. And, of course, he and his speechwriters that have been with him a long time know the things that would give a stutterer trouble (alliteration, for example), and avoid those. So he speaks more strongly, knowing he's not going to be tripped up. And I'm sure he reviews the remarks before giving them, of course.
Whoever came up with the "I don't walk / talk as well as I used to, but I know how to tell the truth" today... that would've been a great closing statement. It could still be a good rally phrase / campaign slogan. But if he'd used it last night, it might have saved the night, even if only slightly.
If this was a lot to read through, apologies. But I've been thinking about this most of the day.
One debate night is not the only problem! President Biden would not give interviews especially the in-depth kind to newspapers, tv media, etc. He even passed on the Super Bowl, free media, softball interview. He left a vacuum for the republicans and trump to fill. The people around Biden, it seems to me, have been hiding him. Maybe he has good days and bad days.
I think he has done a great job overall but if he cannot win the election, make the case for why him and not Trump, then he should not be running. And for those who are saying a change in candidate can’t be done, I don’t think you are reading newspapers the last two days. It can be done. And the democrats do have a bench.
Someone needs to lead the charge. Joe cannot dig himself out of the "old aged" hole he is in. I'm thankful he saved us from the orange baffoon and COVID but he must pull out of the race. His mind is not agile enough for the job. And a big hell no to Kamala.
So not only do you want the sitting head of the party (who is not 'enfeebled', no matter what the chattering class says)... you also want to skip right over the titular #2?
That would be a guaranteed schism in the Democratic Party, especially at this date. They'd lose by +10 pts, and we (collectively) would have lost the country, forever. Are you familiar with the '68 DNC?
Please... don't just write to see words appear on the screen... put some thought into what you're proposing.
This has been removed for violating rule #2 - Respectful Dialogue.
We expect all members to treat others with respect, regardless of their views or disagreements. Failure to do so will result in a change with your standing in the community, If a mod corrects the dialogue, do not be disrespectful.
Bedwetting isn't the problem.
The fact that there's not an obvious replacement for Biden should concern anyone who's not in diapers.
That is a significant problem.
Setting aside the garment rending that's being done on MSNBC because it'll end up in a ten part podcast, let's look at last night. That so called debate was set up perfectly for the likes of Trump. He could lie and make racist comments without being interrupted. When asked direct questions he could lie and make racist statements and go off on bizarre tangents - all of it uninterrupted. Biden came in with a hoarse voice and way too many facts right out of the brain of some policy wonk on an ego high. Joe Biden is best when he's Uncle Joe and not someone who sounds like a grad school thesis.
Yeah, I remember some pundit saying on Wednesday that THE ONE THING Biden should not do was what Biden did do (i.e., “If you’re explaining, you’re losing”). I got so tired of the “Number one: _____, number two: ______,” etc. And, either he forgot to remember he was on television… and that the cameras would be on him the entire time… or nobody told him. Those split screens were surreal; a couple of times I actually wondered if he was having a mini-stroke. What an awful night.
I say we start a GoFundMe to supply MSNBC with thousands of rubber sheets to handle all the bed wetting they'll do for a few days.
It’s not “bed wetting” to make an honest assessment of what we saw with our own eyes. I would vote for my ailing deaf dog before I voted for Trump—make no mistake. Biden has an incredible record. He stabilized the economy post-Covid, unemployment is at a record low. It’s really impressive. He’s a patriotic, decent human being. But in the world of Tik-Tok spin clips, most low-information voters see the “look at old man Biden” clips and nothing else. Biden had a few jobs last night and he didn’t get them done. His performance was a disaster and only exacerbated all of the fears swing voters have about him. We need to be honest about that. Trump is a despicable traitor. He will annihilate what’s left of democracy and civil rights in this country. We need to be real about this situation. A new candidate would be a mess but after that debate, pretending like swing voters will forget Biden’s performance and Trump’s campaign won’t weaponize it into the ground is pure delusion. It’s not simply seeing unflattering articles of clips on TV anymore. Social media can and is already running with this. The stakes are too high to bury our heads in the sand. I don’t have a good answer but it’s not fair to cast those of us who are concerned as “bed wetters”.
People on this sub prefer to live in delusion. The comments are quite literally telling you that people don’t want the “negative spin,” so they ignore their favorite programs.
HAHA. Thank you for the first real good laugh of the day. I've already had to unfollow a few podcasts and people on Threads today. The negative spin is not helpful. I received my MSNBC survey email this morning and I let my disappointment with their coverage be known. I thought Hayes, O'Donnell and Maddow were the most able to share perspective and big picture the debate during last night's post debate coverage. Everyone else's hair was on fire.
Seriously. As Fetterman said in his Op Ed, “chill the F out”. I hate that they are giving air time to further degrading Biden. How is this helpful? The guy had a bad night, move the fuck on!
Will Nicole guffah ever again?
Eh, if the Joe Biden that talked today in NC would have shown up last night, this thing would be over. Night and day difference
But he didn't.
Touché but 90 minutes downstairs negate 4 years or the policy beliefs behind it.
Yeah, me too. This narrative needs to end right now.
By Joe saving his legacy and releasing delegets to Harris. If not, he will go down as stubbornly sinking the ship of state cause of his ego. Harris/Cuban
This is how you lose elections - causing division within the party. We already know how great a President Joe can be - he's proven it. And we know how bad trump was - he's proven it as well. No more teeth gnashing and hand wringing. It's time for the Dems to have Joe's back like the mob that backs trump supports him after every indictment, felony judgement, etc. I know we are all scared shitless of reliving 2016 - so let's all work together.
I don’t know exactly where I stand in all this nonsense. I’m kind of working through it, honestly. But this hypocrisy is fucking RIPE with people on the left. GOP is a cult. GOP is living in a different reality. Dems don’t worship their politicians, they think for themselves and don’t blindly follow their leaders off a cliff. We’ve heard them all. But now, when Biden is literally glitching on the world’s biggest stage in the campaign’s most consequential moment? - “We need to back our guy like MAGA backs theirs.” I understand I’ll get downvoted and blocked, but whatever. I can’t deal with this shit anymore, far too depressing. MAGA sure is a cult, though. I do agree with that much.
It will go down as the most selfish act in history if he stays in. Dems are fools if they think they can beat Trump with Biden. You are conceding election to Trump. Weak.
Have you seen her numbers? If they are going to ditch Joe they need to do the same with her.
If he resigned office, she would be 1st female potus and her numbers would go up. Stick with Joe and we are going to lose. Poll today from New Jersey has Trump up 1. That isnt supposed to be a swing state. If Biden truly wants to save democracy he needs to pick his successor and let them use what little runway remains. I doubt Biden will live 4 more years.
Remembering how some conservatives literally cried in fear of an Obama presidency, I really don't think they're down with having a female poc in office.
We dont need their votes. We need what Biden got in 2020.
No. Joe Biden’s career needs to end right now. Get this decrepit motherfucker off the ballot.
Harris is a cackling idiot. She and Joe need to go. Whitmer/Newsom 2024!
I appreciated Michael Steele's "Calm Down" segment on Joy's show this evening and it looks like she did too. It's important not to overreact. It's OK to think about options but the reaction can be worse than the thing.
Someone on the internet called the post-debate punditry “synchronized spiraling” and it’s true. Does anyone have a hot take that is *not* butthurt?
Republicans. They’re ecstatic over the debate.
Yeah, I'd say that if you want an opinion that the debate went well, head on over to your RW sites of choice. Although they're all doing laundry today, due to their soiling the sheets last night.
Keep huffing that copium, brah.
I want to know what happened. The Joe I saw and heard today in North Carolina is the Joe I was expecting to see last night. What the hell happened?
Could be any / all of a number of things... - It was said he had a cold (I'll give some credence to this, but it sure looked like he improved today!) - Some people think he was overprepared -- you could see the numbers / facts running around in his head. - As you know, he's battled a stutter his entire life -- and my guess is that he sometimes finds he's going to use a word that's going to potentially trigger it, and looks for another way to phrase what he wanted to say. - His voice was raspy. The cold may have contributed to it. But that's not uncommon for him, tbh. - Besides the stutter, he's been given to malaprops most of his public life. That was also exhibited last night with his 'I beat medicare' comment (ostensibly the worst of his errors). - With no fact checking in real-time by the moderators, Joe likely felt he was going to have to do it -- but doing that distracted him from his own answers, and robbed him of time. - Speaking of time, and observing it... Joe is often deferential to a fault, and immediately stopping when his time ended is just the latest example of that. - You can tell he has an intense dislike of TFG (supposedly, he himself coined 'TSF' ('the sick fuck'). Why do I mention this? Well, as you probably know, if if fills you up with rage to even \*see\* someone, much less need to interact with someone you dislike intensely... it can interfere with your thought patterns (you see him get his Irish up whenever TFG talks about Joe's kids). I speak of this from personal experience, and it may not apply to him. Now, with all of those things (and there are probably others, I'm sure)... Today's Joe was in a less-threatening environment -- he wasn't going to have to answer questions on the fly, and he knew what he wanted to say. When that's the case, his voice is much stronger. Yes, the teleprompter helps. And, of course, he and his speechwriters that have been with him a long time know the things that would give a stutterer trouble (alliteration, for example), and avoid those. So he speaks more strongly, knowing he's not going to be tripped up. And I'm sure he reviews the remarks before giving them, of course. Whoever came up with the "I don't walk / talk as well as I used to, but I know how to tell the truth" today... that would've been a great closing statement. It could still be a good rally phrase / campaign slogan. But if he'd used it last night, it might have saved the night, even if only slightly. If this was a lot to read through, apologies. But I've been thinking about this most of the day.
I’m not watching today. I’m wait for Lawrence.
Solid plan he'll tell you what to think...smh
Gross Albany Swinger. Stay away.
Felt the same way today about turning on any news or reading any. Then I had Lawrence on and he made me feel much better.
They are so fucked up!
Good insight.
One debate night is not the only problem! President Biden would not give interviews especially the in-depth kind to newspapers, tv media, etc. He even passed on the Super Bowl, free media, softball interview. He left a vacuum for the republicans and trump to fill. The people around Biden, it seems to me, have been hiding him. Maybe he has good days and bad days. I think he has done a great job overall but if he cannot win the election, make the case for why him and not Trump, then he should not be running. And for those who are saying a change in candidate can’t be done, I don’t think you are reading newspapers the last two days. It can be done. And the democrats do have a bench.
His pants changed.
Someone needs to lead the charge. Joe cannot dig himself out of the "old aged" hole he is in. I'm thankful he saved us from the orange baffoon and COVID but he must pull out of the race. His mind is not agile enough for the job. And a big hell no to Kamala.
So not only do you want the sitting head of the party (who is not 'enfeebled', no matter what the chattering class says)... you also want to skip right over the titular #2? That would be a guaranteed schism in the Democratic Party, especially at this date. They'd lose by +10 pts, and we (collectively) would have lost the country, forever. Are you familiar with the '68 DNC? Please... don't just write to see words appear on the screen... put some thought into what you're proposing.
[удалено]
What does FOAH mean?
This has been removed for violating rule #2 - Respectful Dialogue. We expect all members to treat others with respect, regardless of their views or disagreements. Failure to do so will result in a change with your standing in the community, If a mod corrects the dialogue, do not be disrespectful.
Bedwetting isn't the problem. The fact that there's not an obvious replacement for Biden should concern anyone who's not in diapers. That is a significant problem.