The amount of people justifying the seller popping the case is absurd... You do know what sub you're in right?
If it isn't sealed, it's TAMPERED with. That's the point of the stop tape. Send this back, it's very likely dead boxes from serial opened cases.
I wish wizards would label the cases better. A lot of times the mini cases ( for CBBs) have no labeling on them. This is a brand new product so I wouldn’t open the tape if I knew I unloaded off the pallet from distro, but if it’s a box sitting on a shelf for a while I’m probably opening that tape to ensure it’s the right boxes (if the carton is unmarked).
However, if it was listed as a sealed case, it should be a sealed case. TCGPLAYER should back you on getting this returned.
Yea I don't think there's anything wrong with popping a case to verify, but then the sellers just sell it as either an open case or sell the boxes individually.
There's no reason to open it and then list it as sealed, and OP should definitely return it as he's assuming all the risk.
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The odds of opening serials or big chase hits is less than 1 per case. If you're a shop or reseller you'll open cases to hit big cards to resell as singles. Once you hit a big one, the other boxes from that case are considered "dead" because it's extremely unlikely they'll contain a huge value card. Its the nature of the distribution.
Its one of the dirty little secrets of a lot of card dealers who sell sealed and singles. This happens everywhere, with every set.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but does this mean if I really wanted a high value card from a set, I would have a much better chance buying a case of 6 sealed boxes than 6 separate collector booster boxes? If that makes sense
Yes and no, in that it's pretty complicated. Buying in larger sealed pools tends to decrease variance, whereas buying a similar amount of packs in booster packs or bundles, etc, tends to increase variance.
A similar comparison could be made from buying a booster box compared to the number of loose packs. The booster box, though following a 'random' distribution is still going to roughly fall in the average distribution of mythics and rares compared to other sealed booster boxes because they have been more or less evenly packed in an even distribution by the process. That's where the whole theory of box mapping took hold, though I have no idea if it's applicable or how true it was to begin with. A collection of loose packs (36 boosters from draft packs or single cardboard hangers or 12 singleton collector boosters in those ridiculous target boxes) - which are theoretically pulled at random from the print run- could all be banger packs -or- all duds, but still most commonly a mix of both.
For example- if you picked 12 collector boosters out of a pile of all the collector boosters wizards made for a set, you could theoretically be incredibly lucky and pick out 12 that all had serialized cards. But if you picked 12 boosters from a single collector booster box post distribution, you're never going to find one with all 12 holding serialized cards because the presumption is that WOTC has caused them to be distributed more evenly than that.
The same goes for sealed cases in that you're looking at a 6 box untampered window into the presumably evenly distributed print run. So if you open a serialized early from the first box, you go 'wow!' the other serialized cards are probably further away than in the other 5 boxes here. And then you sell those other five presuming that they won't have a serialized pull.
The OP is essentially in a position that they could be looking at 6 collected boxes that are residuals from cases in which a serialized has been nabbed. Their 6 box window into the print run can not be guaranteed to follow the presumed WOTC even distribution at this point.
Box mapping was absolutely real for a few years, I believe around the Theros/Modern Masters 1 era (and potentially other sets before/after).
Essentially, you could determine the pack arrangement by opening a few packs, which would allow you to determine which packs contained mythics (or even perhaps specific cards? Can’t remember). This is why buying loose boosters back then was way more sketchy back then.
If I recall, the collation technology they came up with to put a legend in every pack for Dominaria (2018) also changed how boosters were arranged. Idk, this part might be misremembering
Wait does Wizards seed things? I thought they can’t seed because it would impact the odds they print on packs. Maybe I’m way off but aren’t they under some form of gambling law which is why they have to post the chances of getting mythics and rares? So by seeding wouldn’t they violate that by forcing odds? Like a casino can make it unlikely a machine wins but they can’t set a spin to 0 ever.
Well, seeded is perhaps the wrong word (although in the Lost Legends, those were inserted by hand and then seeded throughout). The presumption is that the methodology wizards uses to sort these types of things into packs/boxes/etc is designed to roughly evenly distribute them, but again, that's not something that is actually known. Because if something doesn't evenly distribute or then randomize them throughout the entire run, you could get a situation in which the first five hundred boosters get serialized cards and 250 of them get shipped to New Jersey.
The odds on a pack for serialized etc doesn't change whether they hand assign then randomize or do some auto-assign, since its based on # of packs with a serialized card vs # without, though.
Reddit has filed for its IPO. They've been preparing for this for a while, squeezing profit out of the platform in any way that they can, like hiking the prices on third-party app developers. More recently, they've signed a deal with Google to license their content to train Google's LLMs.
To celebrate this momentous occasion, we've made a Firefox extension that will replace all your comments (older than a certain number of days) with any text that you provide. You can use any text that you want, but please, do not choose something copyrighted. The New York Times is currently suing OpenAI for training ChatGPT on its copyrighted material. Reddit's data is uniquely valuable, since it's not subject to those kinds of copyright restrictions, so it would be tragic if users were to decide to intermingle such a robust corpus of high-quality training data with copyrighted text.
https://theluddite.org/#!post/reddit-extension
I remember when people told me I was wrong about this with Masterpieces for Kaladesh boxes. I'm glad people are actually coming around.
Now if only we could convince people stamping a number on a card that exists in other forms doesn't make it play any different, special or worth more.
A serialized card is objectively different from other versions of the card, though. There will never be another 420/500 Whatever Card, that's the only one in existence. You may not think that makes it special, but there are lots of other things people disagree about the value of. Your appraisal of the value is one thing, but it's just wrong to say that it's not any different
You're wrong. In 99% of cases, it's the same exact card as any other with a random numbered stamp on it. You're right in that we could disagree about the value.
What you'll start to see here soon is that people won't care about serialized card either because a random stamp isn't going to command a 100000% markup. Either the card is playable and in demand or not.
As an example, if I go and buy some Jordan's or Nike's and stamp a 1/1 stamp on it, does it suddenly become worth $1 million because it's the "only" pair like it? Of course not. That's a hard ass sell.
With WotC making serialized cards a regular thing, I bet that in the coming year or two people will notice this too. Getting a stamp on a $3 chromatic lantern doesn't make it worth $1k+. It's still a crap card, with the same crap art and the stamp doesn't change that.
No - objectively speaking, there's a difference between a serialized card and a non-serialized card. One of them is serialized, and the other isn't. That's all it takes for a difference in value to exist.
I personally agree that paying for serialization is a poor investment that probably won't pay off, but I'm not wrong to say that the cards aren't the same or that people will value them more highly because they're different
They won't.
They really aren't any different. If your non-serialized cards had their print # on them, visible, it would be EXACTLY the same thing. EVERY card is serialized, you just can't SEE it.
If you think that 1/500 card was ACTUALLY the first print of that card to come off the line, I have an alpha volcanic island to sell you. Its legit no different. You're right, it has a nice stamp on it though, but who knows which card of that set was actually the first one off the line. You probably even have some of these types of cards somewhere in bulk.
Additionally, as WotC makes this their main selling point, it'll be no different than full art lands. Remember when they were nice AF and expensive? Now we get them all over the place? Foil, non foil, etc and they're worth like. 50? This serialized phenomenon will be the "new" full art land treatment until it ends the same way.
I had no idea that's how it worked and that it isn't a truly random distribution. I remember back in the day you could open 1 pack from a box and then you would know every single other rare in the box. I heard about that in Onslaught block because stores were (allegedly) taking all the packs with fetches out.
Makes me glad I don't buy packs.
Both packs and sealed boxes/cases are randomized but not fully random.
At the pack level, they do various collations to support limited play for the relevant packs. Set boosters had a theme aspect to the uncommons/commons, etc.
At the box level, the number of Mythics you were likely to get had a distribution of probabilities, but to my understanding it isn't possible to get 0 Mythics or a Mythic in every pack, rather than just being very unlikely.
It's not the same, and there's a much much wider distribution overall now, but yea it's definitely not "true random" that would almost be a nightmare to accomplish honestly. The way they print and pack now is all automated there's no "hey bro shuffle these up" going on haha.
I’ve often wondered if the same rationale works at the pack level.
For example, if you kept opening up packs out of a box till you opened the average amount of mythics in a given box, and then set the rest of the packs in the box aside, would you eventually have a pile of packs with much lower mythic distributions, all without any kind of advanced mapping/trickery?
Is this not gamblers fallacy? Even if the odds are 1 per case that does not mean that a case can only have 1 hit any more than the roulette wheel landing on 36 means it is less likely to hit 36 the next spin. Unless wizards intentionally makes sure only 1 serialized card is sent in a case, which I believe they can’t since they have gambling odds on the packs so they can’t rig it like that. But maybe I’m not understanding this.
People here are no better than gambling addicts, lol. I guess there’s a correlation between people dumb enough to spend money on sealed product and people dumb enough to believe in shit like this, too.
Except this is a silly gambler's fallacy. The odds of opening chase cards are independent from box to box. There's no reason why opening a chase card in one box would change anything about the odds of the other boxes.
Unless (which another commenter has pointed out is actually true) the distribution isn't fully random. If serialized card packs are evenly distributed among displays and cases, making sure to (almost) never put two of them in the same display and case, this method does work.
If we're taking true randomness then you're obviously correct
>Unless (which another commenter has pointed out is actually true) the distribution isn't fully random.
Except the other commenters are spewing nonsense with zero evidence.
>If serialized card packs are evenly distributed among displays and cases, making sure to (almost) never put two of them in the same display and case, this method does work.
But they aren't.
>Except the other commenters are spewing nonsense with zero evidence.
Do you have evidence?
Because if so, I'd love to see it, I have no idea who's right, but I don't care enough to find evidence. But if neither has evidence we can end the conversation here as it's all pure speculation.
There's lots of pictures and videos online of people pulling multiple serialized cards from single boxes, let alone cases. Something that the idea behind "dead boxes" would mean is impossible.
One way to think about it is that the evidence supports both sides. If the chance to open a serialized card is 1/10000, the odds of two being in a box or case is infinitesimal even if it was truly random. So the people who think that Wizards is non-randomly making sure things are evenly distributed feel vindicated and the people who think it is random also think they're right.
Never ordered a wizards sealed case, pretty cool they made their own tape. You can buy rolls of the tape stop tape for Pokémon cases on amazon. As long as everything’s there and isn’t swapped for fakes or something crazy I wouldn’t be to worried about it. If you ever decide to sell it would more than likely be individually. You’re paying for the boxes inside the box not the box itself. Just my opinion, if you prefer sealed I would message buyer ahead of time and make a request. Just my opinion lol
If I'm just buying a box or two I don't mind them reusing shipping materials like this. However, if you're buying an entire case that states it's sealed, this is concerning. This is fraud, based on their own description. Send it back and demand a full refund.
While I agree to this from a “what is right” point of view, it’s very disheartening that OP has to do all that effort of sending it back and arguing to get a refund… only to end up completely empty handed and with no cards. Sure, he can order new ones but that’s another month of waiting.
You're absolutely right. They should further open the packs to make sure they really got ripped off. Then if anything they should send it back for a refund.
Sellers don't pay attention to collectors especially MTG, you are only going to get sealed cases when you specifically request it. People are going to complain and yell an scream because of a website print. Its easy to say fraud but you will find in the real world there is a lot of gray area and it is not clear cut. It might say it on the website like tcg player,
[https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036246613-What-qualifies-as-a-sealed-product](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036246613-What-qualifies-as-a-sealed-product)
there is one line there that say if seal is broken it is not longer sealed, but the seller could have just claimed they thought it meant on the individual boxes seal. End of day there is no consequences other then just refund. So who loses out? YOU.
The lesson everyone should learn is contact the seller before/after you purchase and make sure before they send out it is sealed case like you want it. COMMUNICATE what you want and not make assumptions. If the description did not specifically mention sealed in case with stop tape....i wouldn't trust it. Its not a thing for most people. We only know about it cause we are collectors.
I mean if you don't like American cheese on your cheeseburger and wanted cheddar you don't claim fraud when they give you American right? You ask the restaurant to make sure it is cheddar cheese on your burger or ask them to refund you. Even if it said cheddar on the menu, you would have to prove that they did it maliciously to even possibly get judgement for you in court.
Edit: Even though I am a collector I am never buying a sealed case from a marketplace....cause it is waaay too easy to counterfeit. I will only buy sealed cases from LGS where I can inspect or distributor.
Edit2: All the downvotes, doesn't make it not true folks. Open your mouths and communicate what you want....don't make assumptions when you are buying from Joe shmoe marketplace seller, you are not buying from tcg direct.
If the deal is too good to be true, it probabaly is. OP bought sealed case for no premium and expects it to be a premium. It is nobody but your own fault not doing due diligence. The OP can always return the product. And get a refund... He won't cause he already won getting product 600 below market.
Are you saying “he bought a product for market value and thus he shouldn’t expect the item to be as described, what with only having paid the widely agreed upon price for the product?”
No chance I would keep that. Let's say you don't hit any value; even if the seller was trustworthy and didn't tamper with it in any way, you would still feel cheated or suspicious.
My recommendation is to initiate the complaint/return through TCGPlayer. As many have said already it likely is full of "dead" boxes as far as serialized cards are concerned. If that isn't a concern for you, then feel free to open, but also check the seals on the boxes inside. I will say that not all of my boxes arrived with the best seal/wrap, but they were at least intact.
Is there any evidence that each box in a case is not independent from the other boxes? I've seen a lot of claim about this but can't find any evidence or articles online.
People saying they check to make sure the correct product is inside are talking out of their posterior.
Having received cases of every sealed product since Khans, I can tell you the contents inside the case have never differed from the label on the case, not one product in 9 years.
The *only* reason to open the case is to game the track printing.
Anyone saying otherwise has been told a lie they really believe, is naive, or is in on the same scam.
It is decidedly less labor to ship an unopened case than to ship an opened case. It's not even a question.
There were several sets with no outer label on the 6-box inner cartons. Kamigawa Neon Dynasty, Baldur’s Gate, etc. all look the same from the outside. If you intermix them over time, you end up having no idea what is inside. I bought a label maker and label the outside of the blank inners the second I get them.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you know what track printing is? It assures an even spread across boxes/cases/palettes etc. So if a case was opened and a serialized card was pulled, the rest of the boxes in that case 9 times out of 10 will NOT have a serialized card in them. There is not an even chance per box depending on what sample size you're using and how spread the boxes from that sample size were. There are many many posts about this exact thing and it has been documented in mass box openings when calculating expected value. If I was OP I would definitely look to return those boxes as it's not a sealed case. If I'm buying a case, it will be sealed or I will not buy it.
Yea I understand that, and I agree. But your comment stated that all CBB have the same chance to pull serialized cards and that's actually just a fallacy that WotC promotes. This is the MTGfinance sub though so I think it's important to divest ourselves from the emotional side of what "could" happen and look at the hard data of what is financially best. And in this case a sealed case is a more sound investment than an open one hands down.
I will admit I did a sealed case of ravnica remastered and not only hit 2 serialized cards in the case, but out of the same box. IN NO WAY DOES THIS JUSTIFY RECEIVING A TAMPERED BOX. I ONLY buy sealed cases for product, and will always refuse an “opened to confirm contents” case at all times.
Thanks for this Coco,
that was my thinking. I paid for a case that was labeled as unopened. This has been opened. I'll reach out to TCG player to see what can be done
If it's sold as a case, it's a different price and the buyer should expect the wotc seal to be intact and not open.
You are buying a case and not a sealed box
**Return it, it’s been tampered with. As a seller this would get you in big trouble with such a large purchase and I would never dream of selling such an expensive product already open.**
That’s ludicrous dude, that’s like $1,000 the product needs to be 110% sealed and unopened.
You are not paying simply for a “case” you paid for **a whole unopened case of cards.**
Yeah, if that's the case, and you do not want to open, it would likely generate quite a bit more to just sell the boxes individually, if you have any inclination to sell the product yourself. Hell, the seller may rather you return them! 😂
Lets go deeper on the conspiracy.
Is there any way to tell if that case packaging is for the set you bought or have they been slowly amassing boxes to make up a case to finally send out?
Ya, I'd happily pay at least that for it. I'd think chances are pretty low that it's actually been tampered with. When the next wave hits, they'll probably go back down to about that.
The idea of alternative rarity cards which occur one per case is sort of a new thing for MtG, but players of other card games have been dealing with "case farming" for a few years now.
In the Yugioh tcg, there are these cards called Starlight Rares, which are very fancy variants of desirable cards from the main set. Starlight's drop at the rate of 1/case (a case is 12 boxes of 24 packs, so one Starlight on average per 288 packs).
These cards go for several hundred (a few over 1k) dollars on the secondary market. Vendors will case farm the starlight by opening boxes till they find it, then they sell the remaining boxes as there is a near 0% chance those boxes will contain a starlight. If you wish to have a fair chance of opening that minty starlight, you must buy a sealed case. Buying loose booster boxes is rolling the dice. Not all vendors case farm but it happens a lot. It's the players and collectors who don't have the budget to buy cases of every core set that lose out the most due to this. You will probably see something similar happen in Mtg with the serialized card variants driving the practice.
Your case is compromised, you should send it back, absolutely. I wish you the best of luck with it, you do not deserve the hassle.
cheers
--rabbit
I am reading the comments and clear conclusion is if you want serialised cards and savé some money just order multiple cases, open them, find the serialised then put unopened boxes in the case reseale it and initiate return complaint.
/sarcasm
If its from tcgplayer, I would try to get a refund.
My lgs did this with a standard set, before set boosters and collectors. It was to ensure the product was accurate and actually in there. "Sometimes things get mislabeled" I recalled this when I bought a case (it was a remaster set), and asked to leave it without being opened and did such.
If OP bought this from a small business, I would think that is totally fine, or just reach out to them and see how they handle the situation. As a shop owner, I have had customer claims that items were missing in cases, and that then relies on me to fulfill because I can’t prove that something was actually missing from the case, and I lose money. Ever since that incident I slice open each case when delivered, count the boxes, then reseal the case so I can properly inventory EVERYTHING.
As somebody who works in LGS I would need more information. This photo is actually too vague. If you just bought a a mini case that's only six boxes. It comes in a smaller box that doesn't have that tape on it. If you bought a real case of collector boxes which is four boxes of six, then that tape should not be broken.
A box of six collector boxes comes in a small maybe 9 inch by 5 in box where all the boxes are neatly packed together. The top of that box folds in for the seal. It's not two flaps taped down. I would say there's a great chance that if you open that box there is packing material and a smaller inner box of six collector boxes in a new smaller sealed box
If you want to shoot me a DM or something like that I can send you a picture of what a case of collector boxes looks like because it doesn't look like that
If you only paid $1450 for the case, you would be doing the seller a favor by returning it as they are selling for $2300 right now. The issue is, you don’t know if they boxes have been tampered with, so if you were to resell the boxes, you would be liable for your sale. Quite the predicament
It’s opened. If the listing said unopened you need to get a refund. I work in a card shop and as soon as a case is opened we can’t sell it as sealed. It doesn’t mean the boxes were tampered with but if you ordered an unopened case you should be sent an unopened case.
Prior to all this special form chase card stuff I ALWAYS popped the tape to make sure the correct product was inside before sending to a buyer. Stop tape is basically meaningless even so.
The seller probably was just making sure they were sending a correct order and if you didn't request to have the case sealed when purchasing then this just makes sense to me.
I wouldn't chase ghosts about it. If you really want to you can ask the seller if you can have a sealed case if you send this one back but that seems way more troublesome than it's worth
Only if I listed something as a sealed case would I not. When I owned a store we would pop stuff from the distributor every time because you have a narrow grace period to claim a discrepancy on your order or forever hold your peace. Maybe I'm just old school but if someone buys a case from me and I didn't specify and they didn't ask theres no stop tape that matters to me. Frankly I still think that tape is a pedantic thing to make a fuss over anyway since you can literally buy a roll of it and reapply it if you're an unscrupulous seller but whatever
OP clearly stated it was sold as a sealed product and arrived unsealed so I'm glad you agree they were done wrong
The second you Crack a box that is listed as "sealed" YOU take on the responsibility and have to eat that price difference. You're essentially a middle man when working an LCS.
You should know there's a price difference between a sealed product and not sealed, surely. And especially understand the implication that comes with dealing with collector boxes and serialized cards as well when it comes to ordering a full box and why someone would do that.
Yes which is why I specified that. I clearly stated that if I listed it as sealed I would not crack the tape and if I didn't I would. Plus I list all things with pictures anyway in the state they are currently in so a buyer wouldn't be confused.
It was a rhetorical question because you clearly missed the bit where it was stated to be sold as "sealed".
Why are you acting this dense brother? I know you arent.
cause a marketplace webstore automatically makes the description sealed...doesn't mean the seller knew that sealed meant stop tape sealed. You do realize there are amateur sellers on the marketplace right?
It was advertised as an unopened Fallout collector booster display case.
If you drop $2,000 on a case listed as "unopened," you're going to expect to get an unopened case. Amateur seller or not.
On top of that, what amateur sellers are selling display cases of collector booster boxes?
He preordered fallout collectors case for $1450, not only did he not pay a premium, he paid 600 under market for a product that was later found out was severely alocated. He is complaining that he didn't get a sealed case and thinks he should get an even more discount cause it wasn't stop tape sealed. Bro already won but wants to have his cake and eat it too. Again I am saying don't make assumptions without communication. Just because you spend a lot of money on something doesn't mean the people you gave it to are competent.
I mean if it has 6 sealed collector boxes I don't know how much of a case you have.
I would still pursue this as it's strange. They'd have little reason to open the case.
If it was marketed as an "unopened" case, then this is clearly not unopened. OP should be able to get it returned through TCG. My experience with TCGplayer has been nothing but positive, including one very similar issue to OP's.
As a seller, I always open cases to verify content from distributors. There’s been cases where one of the boxes aren’t what it was supposed to be (JPN vip in place of English vip). The description says unopened - open to interpretation, 6 sealed collector boxes vs 1 sealed case. If it’s a reputable seller, then I wouldn’t worry about it
What is the scam/ problem that you’re worried about aside from “misrepresentation”? The boxes themselves are still sealed? I haven’t heard anything about mapping cases in a long time, is that a concern? Or are you just worried about the distribution of cards across cases and want a “fresh” case. This is entirely cognitive bias to think that sequential booster boxes actually affect the cards you open… it would take a massive sample size to prove whether this it does and therefore only WotC knows, and they’ll never tell. Pretty sure buying a case or 6 boosters boxes ends up the same, and its just copium to think otherwise.
A case (which is what OP purchased) contains a serialized card in one of the collector boxes. If the seller opens 2 cases (6 collector boxes each) hits the serialized card on both cases after 3 collector boxes he can repack the unopened collector boxes into the case ( which OP has now) and ship it knowing these will not have a serialized card since the seller pulled the one that comes per case.
Well, it contains a chance of a serialized card, depending on print run of serialized, it is far from a guarantee. But, by buying a sealed case, the odds are higher, as alot of stores mass open cases, and once they hit a serialized card from that case, they will then sell the remaining boxes with the insight that they do not have a serialized card.
Isn’t it hard to mimic the shrink wrap plastic around the booster boxes? Or if you believe those have been tampered with why not open the box and check the boxes themselves? I haven’t seen much of people opening boxes, the packs, and then resealing it without it looking tampered as hell. A whole case considered tampered with as if the person went through all of those boxes for the serialized cards and then resealed them is an insane amount of time and effort for such minuscule returns. I think your box is fine either way but contact the seller regardless.
The people replying are not saying the original seller opened the boxes and resealed them. This set has serialized chase cards, so you can open a box or two and if you get the serialized hit, the remainder of the boxes are worth “ less” since you know there will not be a hit in them
Call WOTC DIRECT. They'll make it right. Sad thing, you can buy stop tape online. Means nothing from a 3rd party seller, in my opinion . Hope it works out, mate, cheers.
I always open the boxes because I want to make sure of the contents. Are there the right boxes, right number, are the damaged, etc
What could also happen is if the buyer gets it, they could claim it’s filled with junk and then you would be forced a refund
professional tcgplayer seller here: people crack the cases if they are not a wholesaler to make sure the product is correct. Sealed applies to the booster boxers not the shipping box.
If the listing of the product is "Booster Box Case" and is listed as "unopened", the case itself must be unopened. Any excuse given for "nuh huh" is irrelevant because that is how the credit card company is going to see it and base their judgement on. That is all that matters.
The end.
it doesn't say the case is sealed, you're some random nerd who doesn't know what they're talking about and I'm a professional so maybe don't display your ignorance publically.
Except the OP posted a photo of the listing which states the item being offered was a sealed case and the time stamp of his picture predates your post by 5 hours. So your claim it doesn’t say it’s sealed is bullshit. Some “professional”. A professional 🤡 maybe…
Jesus fucking Christ, the word sealed and case is in the listing. The word box is nowhere to be seen. You’re an outright liar.
If you’re a professional seller post your store name so everyone knows to avoid you.
It's funny how it literally doesn't say that and you could check in 15 seconds but you're so ignorant you just keep stammering. Also funny that all the professional sellers are saying it's not a big deal and all the raging nerds think some tcgplayer with good feedback is trying some extravagant scam
Frankly a refund or a partial refund. I'd rather just not open the boxes and get my money back than open 6 potential duds. The entire reason I bought a case rather than 6 individual booster boxes was to have a guarantee of a chance of a serialized card.
It might sound stupid because obviously you're not guaranteed one per case but if I don't get one I'll always have the thought in my head of "was this tampered with". Id rather send it back, wait, and get a sealed case from another seller.
At best, these are 6 individual sealed Collector Booster Displays, but certainly not a sealed Collector Booster Case. These should have been listed as individual sealed CB Displays. OP is right to complain. The only exception is if the seller sold them as a Photo Listing describing that the case was opened.
there is no way on tcg player to sell an open case of 6 booster boxes unless they took a picture....you realize most people are lazy right? The owner certainly can complain and get a refund...it ends there. They should have communicated and or bought from a more reputable source.
I'm not sure if "most people are lazy" is a valid excuse. We don't know who this seller is so we don't know their motivations for shipping an opened case nor whether they are reputable, but we're talking about an item over $1,000, the buyer should have an expectation that item matches the description. And in this case if they're too lazy to sell under a Photo Listing, they should have listed as 6 quantity of Sealed CBBs. Otherwise, what's to stop selling 30 loose packs in an opened box as a Sealed Booster?
It's not an excuse its just expectation on a site that is a market place and not a big store or corporation. Not everyone adheres to marketplace policy. Plus the marketplace doesn't have any consequences for violations of their policy other than a refund. You are right there is nothing to stop people from selling 30 loose packs, in the form of a booster box. But there is a economic hurdle. 30 loose booster packs cost more than most sealed mtg boxes.
The amount of people justifying the seller popping the case is absurd... You do know what sub you're in right? If it isn't sealed, it's TAMPERED with. That's the point of the stop tape. Send this back, it's very likely dead boxes from serial opened cases.
I wish wizards would label the cases better. A lot of times the mini cases ( for CBBs) have no labeling on them. This is a brand new product so I wouldn’t open the tape if I knew I unloaded off the pallet from distro, but if it’s a box sitting on a shelf for a while I’m probably opening that tape to ensure it’s the right boxes (if the carton is unmarked). However, if it was listed as a sealed case, it should be a sealed case. TCGPLAYER should back you on getting this returned.
Yea I don't think there's anything wrong with popping a case to verify, but then the sellers just sell it as either an open case or sell the boxes individually. There's no reason to open it and then list it as sealed, and OP should definitely return it as he's assuming all the risk.
Someone should make a cardboard cookie cutter tool for verifying the cases contents without making an opening big enough to take things out of.
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The odds of opening serials or big chase hits is less than 1 per case. If you're a shop or reseller you'll open cases to hit big cards to resell as singles. Once you hit a big one, the other boxes from that case are considered "dead" because it's extremely unlikely they'll contain a huge value card. Its the nature of the distribution. Its one of the dirty little secrets of a lot of card dealers who sell sealed and singles. This happens everywhere, with every set.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but does this mean if I really wanted a high value card from a set, I would have a much better chance buying a case of 6 sealed boxes than 6 separate collector booster boxes? If that makes sense
Yes. That's why op wants a sealed case.
Thank you
Yes and no, in that it's pretty complicated. Buying in larger sealed pools tends to decrease variance, whereas buying a similar amount of packs in booster packs or bundles, etc, tends to increase variance. A similar comparison could be made from buying a booster box compared to the number of loose packs. The booster box, though following a 'random' distribution is still going to roughly fall in the average distribution of mythics and rares compared to other sealed booster boxes because they have been more or less evenly packed in an even distribution by the process. That's where the whole theory of box mapping took hold, though I have no idea if it's applicable or how true it was to begin with. A collection of loose packs (36 boosters from draft packs or single cardboard hangers or 12 singleton collector boosters in those ridiculous target boxes) - which are theoretically pulled at random from the print run- could all be banger packs -or- all duds, but still most commonly a mix of both. For example- if you picked 12 collector boosters out of a pile of all the collector boosters wizards made for a set, you could theoretically be incredibly lucky and pick out 12 that all had serialized cards. But if you picked 12 boosters from a single collector booster box post distribution, you're never going to find one with all 12 holding serialized cards because the presumption is that WOTC has caused them to be distributed more evenly than that. The same goes for sealed cases in that you're looking at a 6 box untampered window into the presumably evenly distributed print run. So if you open a serialized early from the first box, you go 'wow!' the other serialized cards are probably further away than in the other 5 boxes here. And then you sell those other five presuming that they won't have a serialized pull. The OP is essentially in a position that they could be looking at 6 collected boxes that are residuals from cases in which a serialized has been nabbed. Their 6 box window into the print run can not be guaranteed to follow the presumed WOTC even distribution at this point.
Box mapping was absolutely real for a few years, I believe around the Theros/Modern Masters 1 era (and potentially other sets before/after). Essentially, you could determine the pack arrangement by opening a few packs, which would allow you to determine which packs contained mythics (or even perhaps specific cards? Can’t remember). This is why buying loose boosters back then was way more sketchy back then. If I recall, the collation technology they came up with to put a legend in every pack for Dominaria (2018) also changed how boosters were arranged. Idk, this part might be misremembering
Wait does Wizards seed things? I thought they can’t seed because it would impact the odds they print on packs. Maybe I’m way off but aren’t they under some form of gambling law which is why they have to post the chances of getting mythics and rares? So by seeding wouldn’t they violate that by forcing odds? Like a casino can make it unlikely a machine wins but they can’t set a spin to 0 ever.
Well, seeded is perhaps the wrong word (although in the Lost Legends, those were inserted by hand and then seeded throughout). The presumption is that the methodology wizards uses to sort these types of things into packs/boxes/etc is designed to roughly evenly distribute them, but again, that's not something that is actually known. Because if something doesn't evenly distribute or then randomize them throughout the entire run, you could get a situation in which the first five hundred boosters get serialized cards and 250 of them get shipped to New Jersey. The odds on a pack for serialized etc doesn't change whether they hand assign then randomize or do some auto-assign, since its based on # of packs with a serialized card vs # without, though.
Reddit has filed for its IPO. They've been preparing for this for a while, squeezing profit out of the platform in any way that they can, like hiking the prices on third-party app developers. More recently, they've signed a deal with Google to license their content to train Google's LLMs. To celebrate this momentous occasion, we've made a Firefox extension that will replace all your comments (older than a certain number of days) with any text that you provide. You can use any text that you want, but please, do not choose something copyrighted. The New York Times is currently suing OpenAI for training ChatGPT on its copyrighted material. Reddit's data is uniquely valuable, since it's not subject to those kinds of copyright restrictions, so it would be tragic if users were to decide to intermingle such a robust corpus of high-quality training data with copyrighted text. https://theluddite.org/#!post/reddit-extension
I remember when people told me I was wrong about this with Masterpieces for Kaladesh boxes. I'm glad people are actually coming around. Now if only we could convince people stamping a number on a card that exists in other forms doesn't make it play any different, special or worth more.
In fairness, serial numbers on cards and this lack of variance in cases are not the same thing at all
You are correct, I was just listing another thing I wish people would realize and move on from.
A serialized card is objectively different from other versions of the card, though. There will never be another 420/500 Whatever Card, that's the only one in existence. You may not think that makes it special, but there are lots of other things people disagree about the value of. Your appraisal of the value is one thing, but it's just wrong to say that it's not any different
You're wrong. In 99% of cases, it's the same exact card as any other with a random numbered stamp on it. You're right in that we could disagree about the value. What you'll start to see here soon is that people won't care about serialized card either because a random stamp isn't going to command a 100000% markup. Either the card is playable and in demand or not. As an example, if I go and buy some Jordan's or Nike's and stamp a 1/1 stamp on it, does it suddenly become worth $1 million because it's the "only" pair like it? Of course not. That's a hard ass sell. With WotC making serialized cards a regular thing, I bet that in the coming year or two people will notice this too. Getting a stamp on a $3 chromatic lantern doesn't make it worth $1k+. It's still a crap card, with the same crap art and the stamp doesn't change that.
No - objectively speaking, there's a difference between a serialized card and a non-serialized card. One of them is serialized, and the other isn't. That's all it takes for a difference in value to exist. I personally agree that paying for serialization is a poor investment that probably won't pay off, but I'm not wrong to say that the cards aren't the same or that people will value them more highly because they're different
They won't. They really aren't any different. If your non-serialized cards had their print # on them, visible, it would be EXACTLY the same thing. EVERY card is serialized, you just can't SEE it. If you think that 1/500 card was ACTUALLY the first print of that card to come off the line, I have an alpha volcanic island to sell you. Its legit no different. You're right, it has a nice stamp on it though, but who knows which card of that set was actually the first one off the line. You probably even have some of these types of cards somewhere in bulk. Additionally, as WotC makes this their main selling point, it'll be no different than full art lands. Remember when they were nice AF and expensive? Now we get them all over the place? Foil, non foil, etc and they're worth like. 50? This serialized phenomenon will be the "new" full art land treatment until it ends the same way.
Is it just statistics or is it an actual flaw in the seeding of cards relative to packaging?
Not a flaw so much as a coalition thing to reduce variance. One store getting ten serialized cards isn’t what they want.
I guess the kind of thing you can get away with when it's technically not gambling
It's not a flaw, it's a feature. It's built that way on purpose.
I had no idea that's how it worked and that it isn't a truly random distribution. I remember back in the day you could open 1 pack from a box and then you would know every single other rare in the box. I heard about that in Onslaught block because stores were (allegedly) taking all the packs with fetches out. Makes me glad I don't buy packs.
Both packs and sealed boxes/cases are randomized but not fully random. At the pack level, they do various collations to support limited play for the relevant packs. Set boosters had a theme aspect to the uncommons/commons, etc. At the box level, the number of Mythics you were likely to get had a distribution of probabilities, but to my understanding it isn't possible to get 0 Mythics or a Mythic in every pack, rather than just being very unlikely.
It's not the same, and there's a much much wider distribution overall now, but yea it's definitely not "true random" that would almost be a nightmare to accomplish honestly. The way they print and pack now is all automated there's no "hey bro shuffle these up" going on haha.
I’ve often wondered if the same rationale works at the pack level. For example, if you kept opening up packs out of a box till you opened the average amount of mythics in a given box, and then set the rest of the packs in the box aside, would you eventually have a pile of packs with much lower mythic distributions, all without any kind of advanced mapping/trickery?
Is this not gamblers fallacy? Even if the odds are 1 per case that does not mean that a case can only have 1 hit any more than the roulette wheel landing on 36 means it is less likely to hit 36 the next spin. Unless wizards intentionally makes sure only 1 serialized card is sent in a case, which I believe they can’t since they have gambling odds on the packs so they can’t rig it like that. But maybe I’m not understanding this.
Lol, this is nonsense superstition. Dead boxes aren't a thing.
People here are no better than gambling addicts, lol. I guess there’s a correlation between people dumb enough to spend money on sealed product and people dumb enough to believe in shit like this, too.
Except this is a silly gambler's fallacy. The odds of opening chase cards are independent from box to box. There's no reason why opening a chase card in one box would change anything about the odds of the other boxes.
Unless (which another commenter has pointed out is actually true) the distribution isn't fully random. If serialized card packs are evenly distributed among displays and cases, making sure to (almost) never put two of them in the same display and case, this method does work. If we're taking true randomness then you're obviously correct
>Unless (which another commenter has pointed out is actually true) the distribution isn't fully random. Except the other commenters are spewing nonsense with zero evidence. >If serialized card packs are evenly distributed among displays and cases, making sure to (almost) never put two of them in the same display and case, this method does work. But they aren't.
>Except the other commenters are spewing nonsense with zero evidence. Do you have evidence? Because if so, I'd love to see it, I have no idea who's right, but I don't care enough to find evidence. But if neither has evidence we can end the conversation here as it's all pure speculation.
There's lots of pictures and videos online of people pulling multiple serialized cards from single boxes, let alone cases. Something that the idea behind "dead boxes" would mean is impossible.
One way to think about it is that the evidence supports both sides. If the chance to open a serialized card is 1/10000, the odds of two being in a box or case is infinitesimal even if it was truly random. So the people who think that Wizards is non-randomly making sure things are evenly distributed feel vindicated and the people who think it is random also think they're right.
Never ordered a wizards sealed case, pretty cool they made their own tape. You can buy rolls of the tape stop tape for Pokémon cases on amazon. As long as everything’s there and isn’t swapped for fakes or something crazy I wouldn’t be to worried about it. If you ever decide to sell it would more than likely be individually. You’re paying for the boxes inside the box not the box itself. Just my opinion, if you prefer sealed I would message buyer ahead of time and make a request. Just my opinion lol
For everyone asking it clearly states unopened in the description. [https://imgur.com/a/6yEKVq5](https://imgur.com/a/6yEKVq5)
If I'm just buying a box or two I don't mind them reusing shipping materials like this. However, if you're buying an entire case that states it's sealed, this is concerning. This is fraud, based on their own description. Send it back and demand a full refund.
While I agree to this from a “what is right” point of view, it’s very disheartening that OP has to do all that effort of sending it back and arguing to get a refund… only to end up completely empty handed and with no cards. Sure, he can order new ones but that’s another month of waiting.
You're absolutely right. They should further open the packs to make sure they really got ripped off. Then if anything they should send it back for a refund.
Unless the packs are resealed opening the packs will prove very little.
Lies. It'll prove everything!
It is definitely fraud. The case comes in sealed, and they should be sending it to you in the same state. It is the same as the Commander decks.
That listing is saying that each of the collector boxes is unopened not the case that those boxes came in.
Sellers don't pay attention to collectors especially MTG, you are only going to get sealed cases when you specifically request it. People are going to complain and yell an scream because of a website print. Its easy to say fraud but you will find in the real world there is a lot of gray area and it is not clear cut. It might say it on the website like tcg player, [https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036246613-What-qualifies-as-a-sealed-product](https://help.tcgplayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036246613-What-qualifies-as-a-sealed-product) there is one line there that say if seal is broken it is not longer sealed, but the seller could have just claimed they thought it meant on the individual boxes seal. End of day there is no consequences other then just refund. So who loses out? YOU. The lesson everyone should learn is contact the seller before/after you purchase and make sure before they send out it is sealed case like you want it. COMMUNICATE what you want and not make assumptions. If the description did not specifically mention sealed in case with stop tape....i wouldn't trust it. Its not a thing for most people. We only know about it cause we are collectors. I mean if you don't like American cheese on your cheeseburger and wanted cheddar you don't claim fraud when they give you American right? You ask the restaurant to make sure it is cheddar cheese on your burger or ask them to refund you. Even if it said cheddar on the menu, you would have to prove that they did it maliciously to even possibly get judgement for you in court. Edit: Even though I am a collector I am never buying a sealed case from a marketplace....cause it is waaay too easy to counterfeit. I will only buy sealed cases from LGS where I can inspect or distributor. Edit2: All the downvotes, doesn't make it not true folks. Open your mouths and communicate what you want....don't make assumptions when you are buying from Joe shmoe marketplace seller, you are not buying from tcg direct.
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If the deal is too good to be true, it probabaly is. OP bought sealed case for no premium and expects it to be a premium. It is nobody but your own fault not doing due diligence. The OP can always return the product. And get a refund... He won't cause he already won getting product 600 below market.
Are you saying “he bought a product for market value and thus he shouldn’t expect the item to be as described, what with only having paid the widely agreed upon price for the product?”
Product was below market value.
No chance I would keep that. Let's say you don't hit any value; even if the seller was trustworthy and didn't tamper with it in any way, you would still feel cheated or suspicious.
Magic has some super shady dealers
My recommendation is to initiate the complaint/return through TCGPlayer. As many have said already it likely is full of "dead" boxes as far as serialized cards are concerned. If that isn't a concern for you, then feel free to open, but also check the seals on the boxes inside. I will say that not all of my boxes arrived with the best seal/wrap, but they were at least intact.
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Is there any evidence that each box in a case is not independent from the other boxes? I've seen a lot of claim about this but can't find any evidence or articles online.
We used to open them to verify contents so the purchaser can't say it came with something else in it. So there are other reasons.
Then the store you were doing this for was implementing a terribly bone-headed practice. And you should know better. Scummy.
Then you don’t sell it sealed
he ordered a case, not a sealed case, that's what this is. nightmare buyers here
What do you think the point of that tape is?
Do you have eyes? "Condition: unopened" in the comment you're in the replies of.
Not only are you terrible at communication, you're also a peach. Remind us all where you work so we can never buy from them. Weirdo.
Omg what a nightmare of a seller over there
that’s literally the entire point of the big piece of white tape lol
No you didn't
Return it
Tampered 100% There is no justification to sell a sealed case open.
I’d return and ask for a refund
People saying they check to make sure the correct product is inside are talking out of their posterior. Having received cases of every sealed product since Khans, I can tell you the contents inside the case have never differed from the label on the case, not one product in 9 years. The *only* reason to open the case is to game the track printing. Anyone saying otherwise has been told a lie they really believe, is naive, or is in on the same scam. It is decidedly less labor to ship an unopened case than to ship an opened case. It's not even a question.
There were several sets with no outer label on the 6-box inner cartons. Kamigawa Neon Dynasty, Baldur’s Gate, etc. all look the same from the outside. If you intermix them over time, you end up having no idea what is inside. I bought a label maker and label the outside of the blank inners the second I get them.
Innistrad Block and Baldur as well I think
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you know what track printing is? It assures an even spread across boxes/cases/palettes etc. So if a case was opened and a serialized card was pulled, the rest of the boxes in that case 9 times out of 10 will NOT have a serialized card in them. There is not an even chance per box depending on what sample size you're using and how spread the boxes from that sample size were. There are many many posts about this exact thing and it has been documented in mass box openings when calculating expected value. If I was OP I would definitely look to return those boxes as it's not a sealed case. If I'm buying a case, it will be sealed or I will not buy it.
Agreed 100%
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Yea I understand that, and I agree. But your comment stated that all CBB have the same chance to pull serialized cards and that's actually just a fallacy that WotC promotes. This is the MTGfinance sub though so I think it's important to divest ourselves from the emotional side of what "could" happen and look at the hard data of what is financially best. And in this case a sealed case is a more sound investment than an open one hands down.
I will admit I did a sealed case of ravnica remastered and not only hit 2 serialized cards in the case, but out of the same box. IN NO WAY DOES THIS JUSTIFY RECEIVING A TAMPERED BOX. I ONLY buy sealed cases for product, and will always refuse an “opened to confirm contents” case at all times.
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Sorry if I was sounding insulting. Not my intention. Just a misunderstanding
You haven't sounded insulting at all IMO
Thanks for this Coco, that was my thinking. I paid for a case that was labeled as unopened. This has been opened. I'll reach out to TCG player to see what can be done
You aren’t insulting anybody man. Thank you for explaining
Thanks for the thoughts hand0z. This is fallout by the way. I should have put that in the initial post
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[Chandler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4dd3a8e3-9a90-44f4-996c-57242d3c47a5.jpg?1562587277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chandler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/69/chandler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4dd3a8e3-9a90-44f4-996c-57242d3c47a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Joven](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dabe3af-cd5b-461e-95a4-aad046646419.jpg?1562587046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Joven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/77/joven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dabe3af-cd5b-461e-95a4-aad046646419?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for the laugh 😂
Send it back. Get a refund.
If it's sold as a case, it's a different price and the buyer should expect the wotc seal to be intact and not open. You are buying a case and not a sealed box
**Return it, it’s been tampered with. As a seller this would get you in big trouble with such a large purchase and I would never dream of selling such an expensive product already open.** That’s ludicrous dude, that’s like $1,000 the product needs to be 110% sealed and unopened. You are not paying simply for a “case” you paid for **a whole unopened case of cards.**
What'd you pay for them? Case prices are pretty high right now. It might make sense to just resell it. He'll I might give you your "refund" lol
That’s a good idea. $1450ish for the case so honestly pretty cheap compared to market price rn
Yeah, if that's the case, and you do not want to open, it would likely generate quite a bit more to just sell the boxes individually, if you have any inclination to sell the product yourself. Hell, the seller may rather you return them! 😂
I wonder if this was their plan all along! Conspiracy time!
Lets go deeper on the conspiracy. Is there any way to tell if that case packaging is for the set you bought or have they been slowly amassing boxes to make up a case to finally send out?
Ya, I'd happily pay at least that for it. I'd think chances are pretty low that it's actually been tampered with. When the next wave hits, they'll probably go back down to about that.
The idea of alternative rarity cards which occur one per case is sort of a new thing for MtG, but players of other card games have been dealing with "case farming" for a few years now. In the Yugioh tcg, there are these cards called Starlight Rares, which are very fancy variants of desirable cards from the main set. Starlight's drop at the rate of 1/case (a case is 12 boxes of 24 packs, so one Starlight on average per 288 packs). These cards go for several hundred (a few over 1k) dollars on the secondary market. Vendors will case farm the starlight by opening boxes till they find it, then they sell the remaining boxes as there is a near 0% chance those boxes will contain a starlight. If you wish to have a fair chance of opening that minty starlight, you must buy a sealed case. Buying loose booster boxes is rolling the dice. Not all vendors case farm but it happens a lot. It's the players and collectors who don't have the budget to buy cases of every core set that lose out the most due to this. You will probably see something similar happen in Mtg with the serialized card variants driving the practice. Your case is compromised, you should send it back, absolutely. I wish you the best of luck with it, you do not deserve the hassle. cheers --rabbit
I think is simple, if listing said Unopened then the seller did not deliver the product as listed.
Get a full refund. If they don’t budge Customer service will take care of it.
I am reading the comments and clear conclusion is if you want serialised cards and savé some money just order multiple cases, open them, find the serialised then put unopened boxes in the case reseale it and initiate return complaint. /sarcasm
If its from tcgplayer, I would try to get a refund. My lgs did this with a standard set, before set boosters and collectors. It was to ensure the product was accurate and actually in there. "Sometimes things get mislabeled" I recalled this when I bought a case (it was a remaster set), and asked to leave it without being opened and did such.
If OP bought this from a small business, I would think that is totally fine, or just reach out to them and see how they handle the situation. As a shop owner, I have had customer claims that items were missing in cases, and that then relies on me to fulfill because I can’t prove that something was actually missing from the case, and I lose money. Ever since that incident I slice open each case when delivered, count the boxes, then reseal the case so I can properly inventory EVERYTHING.
As somebody who works in LGS I would need more information. This photo is actually too vague. If you just bought a a mini case that's only six boxes. It comes in a smaller box that doesn't have that tape on it. If you bought a real case of collector boxes which is four boxes of six, then that tape should not be broken.
A box of six collector boxes comes in a small maybe 9 inch by 5 in box where all the boxes are neatly packed together. The top of that box folds in for the seal. It's not two flaps taped down. I would say there's a great chance that if you open that box there is packing material and a smaller inner box of six collector boxes in a new smaller sealed box
If you want to shoot me a DM or something like that I can send you a picture of what a case of collector boxes looks like because it doesn't look like that
If you only paid $1450 for the case, you would be doing the seller a favor by returning it as they are selling for $2300 right now. The issue is, you don’t know if they boxes have been tampered with, so if you were to resell the boxes, you would be liable for your sale. Quite the predicament
It’s opened. If the listing said unopened you need to get a refund. I work in a card shop and as soon as a case is opened we can’t sell it as sealed. It doesn’t mean the boxes were tampered with but if you ordered an unopened case you should be sent an unopened case.
100% dead boxes, don’t push ur luck and get them returned asap.
Sealed is not the same as unopened. Wierd eh?
Prior to all this special form chase card stuff I ALWAYS popped the tape to make sure the correct product was inside before sending to a buyer. Stop tape is basically meaningless even so. The seller probably was just making sure they were sending a correct order and if you didn't request to have the case sealed when purchasing then this just makes sense to me. I wouldn't chase ghosts about it. If you really want to you can ask the seller if you can have a sealed case if you send this one back but that seems way more troublesome than it's worth
But did you pop the tape and advertise/sell as a sealed item? There's a difference here.
Only if I listed something as a sealed case would I not. When I owned a store we would pop stuff from the distributor every time because you have a narrow grace period to claim a discrepancy on your order or forever hold your peace. Maybe I'm just old school but if someone buys a case from me and I didn't specify and they didn't ask theres no stop tape that matters to me. Frankly I still think that tape is a pedantic thing to make a fuss over anyway since you can literally buy a roll of it and reapply it if you're an unscrupulous seller but whatever
OP clearly stated it was sold as a sealed product and arrived unsealed so I'm glad you agree they were done wrong The second you Crack a box that is listed as "sealed" YOU take on the responsibility and have to eat that price difference. You're essentially a middle man when working an LCS. You should know there's a price difference between a sealed product and not sealed, surely. And especially understand the implication that comes with dealing with collector boxes and serialized cards as well when it comes to ordering a full box and why someone would do that.
Yes which is why I specified that. I clearly stated that if I listed it as sealed I would not crack the tape and if I didn't I would. Plus I list all things with pictures anyway in the state they are currently in so a buyer wouldn't be confused.
Then why are you yapping? Poster said it was advertised as sealed and arrived opened. Case closed.
Guy asks me a question then becomes annoyed and rude when i explain. Classic mtgfinance
It was a rhetorical question because you clearly missed the bit where it was stated to be sold as "sealed". Why are you acting this dense brother? I know you arent.
cause a marketplace webstore automatically makes the description sealed...doesn't mean the seller knew that sealed meant stop tape sealed. You do realize there are amateur sellers on the marketplace right?
It was advertised as an unopened Fallout collector booster display case. If you drop $2,000 on a case listed as "unopened," you're going to expect to get an unopened case. Amateur seller or not. On top of that, what amateur sellers are selling display cases of collector booster boxes?
He preordered fallout collectors case for $1450, not only did he not pay a premium, he paid 600 under market for a product that was later found out was severely alocated. He is complaining that he didn't get a sealed case and thinks he should get an even more discount cause it wasn't stop tape sealed. Bro already won but wants to have his cake and eat it too. Again I am saying don't make assumptions without communication. Just because you spend a lot of money on something doesn't mean the people you gave it to are competent.
I mean if it has 6 sealed collector boxes I don't know how much of a case you have. I would still pursue this as it's strange. They'd have little reason to open the case.
If it was marketed as an "unopened" case, then this is clearly not unopened. OP should be able to get it returned through TCG. My experience with TCGplayer has been nothing but positive, including one very similar issue to OP's.
I verify contents all the time. It's rare that things happen at the warehouse but I've seen it before
As a seller, I always open cases to verify content from distributors. There’s been cases where one of the boxes aren’t what it was supposed to be (JPN vip in place of English vip). The description says unopened - open to interpretation, 6 sealed collector boxes vs 1 sealed case. If it’s a reputable seller, then I wouldn’t worry about it
Then you aren't selling sealed cases, you are selling opened cases of sealed booster boxes.
What is the scam/ problem that you’re worried about aside from “misrepresentation”? The boxes themselves are still sealed? I haven’t heard anything about mapping cases in a long time, is that a concern? Or are you just worried about the distribution of cards across cases and want a “fresh” case. This is entirely cognitive bias to think that sequential booster boxes actually affect the cards you open… it would take a massive sample size to prove whether this it does and therefore only WotC knows, and they’ll never tell. Pretty sure buying a case or 6 boosters boxes ends up the same, and its just copium to think otherwise.
A case (which is what OP purchased) contains a serialized card in one of the collector boxes. If the seller opens 2 cases (6 collector boxes each) hits the serialized card on both cases after 3 collector boxes he can repack the unopened collector boxes into the case ( which OP has now) and ship it knowing these will not have a serialized card since the seller pulled the one that comes per case.
Well, it contains a chance of a serialized card, depending on print run of serialized, it is far from a guarantee. But, by buying a sealed case, the odds are higher, as alot of stores mass open cases, and once they hit a serialized card from that case, they will then sell the remaining boxes with the insight that they do not have a serialized card.
Isn’t it hard to mimic the shrink wrap plastic around the booster boxes? Or if you believe those have been tampered with why not open the box and check the boxes themselves? I haven’t seen much of people opening boxes, the packs, and then resealing it without it looking tampered as hell. A whole case considered tampered with as if the person went through all of those boxes for the serialized cards and then resealed them is an insane amount of time and effort for such minuscule returns. I think your box is fine either way but contact the seller regardless.
The people replying are not saying the original seller opened the boxes and resealed them. This set has serialized chase cards, so you can open a box or two and if you get the serialized hit, the remainder of the boxes are worth “ less” since you know there will not be a hit in them
It would be a lot easier to buy the "security tape" on the shipping boxes than trying to reseal opened boosters boxers.
Call WOTC DIRECT. They'll make it right. Sad thing, you can buy stop tape online. Means nothing from a 3rd party seller, in my opinion . Hope it works out, mate, cheers.
Honestly bro, most shops did not get that much quantity. They probably worked to get all your boxes for you.
I always open the boxes because I want to make sure of the contents. Are there the right boxes, right number, are the damaged, etc What could also happen is if the buyer gets it, they could claim it’s filled with junk and then you would be forced a refund
Then you aren't selling sealed cases, you are selling opened cases of sealed booster boxes.
professional tcgplayer seller here: people crack the cases if they are not a wholesaler to make sure the product is correct. Sealed applies to the booster boxers not the shipping box.
Incorrect
you're incorrect
If the listing of the product is "Booster Box Case" and is listed as "unopened", the case itself must be unopened. Any excuse given for "nuh huh" is irrelevant because that is how the credit card company is going to see it and base their judgement on. That is all that matters. The end.
you don't know what you talking about unfortunately the end
This sounds like a seller that gets a lot of charge-backs. You get what you deserve I guess. Keep fighting the good fight!
Incorrect you are
Wrong. Sealed case is sealed case. Period.
it doesn't say the case is sealed, you're some random nerd who doesn't know what they're talking about and I'm a professional so maybe don't display your ignorance publically.
Except the OP posted a photo of the listing which states the item being offered was a sealed case and the time stamp of his picture predates your post by 5 hours. So your claim it doesn’t say it’s sealed is bullshit. Some “professional”. A professional 🤡 maybe…
except it doesn't say the shipping box is sealed it says the boosters boxes are unopened better luck next time pal
The listing says CASE and SEALED. There’s no word of BOX. You’re literally making shit up now. I’m done, there’s no use in arguing with illiterates.
uhm no it doesn't, it says it's a case of unopened booster boxes, thank you for making my point for me
Jesus fucking Christ, the word sealed and case is in the listing. The word box is nowhere to be seen. You’re an outright liar. If you’re a professional seller post your store name so everyone knows to avoid you.
It's funny how it literally doesn't say that and you could check in 15 seconds but you're so ignorant you just keep stammering. Also funny that all the professional sellers are saying it's not a big deal and all the raging nerds think some tcgplayer with good feedback is trying some extravagant scam
I own 5 corporations, you punch a clock at an internet LGS. You also can't read. Best of luck in life, you need it.
yah you own "corporations" that's why your posting nerd info on mtgreddit
😂🤣 You mad actual successful people play mtg, mailroom cardboard dork?
100% agree here. Honestly as a seller, if OP wants a refund, a legitimate seller would accept
Thank god, someone knows what they're talking about! How rare!
So what's your expectation? The seller will send you a package of 6 unqualified boxes? Sounds unreasonable
Frankly a refund or a partial refund. I'd rather just not open the boxes and get my money back than open 6 potential duds. The entire reason I bought a case rather than 6 individual booster boxes was to have a guarantee of a chance of a serialized card. It might sound stupid because obviously you're not guaranteed one per case but if I don't get one I'll always have the thought in my head of "was this tampered with". Id rather send it back, wait, and get a sealed case from another seller.
[удалено]
If it says sealed on the listing, that means sealed, period.
At best, these are 6 individual sealed Collector Booster Displays, but certainly not a sealed Collector Booster Case. These should have been listed as individual sealed CB Displays. OP is right to complain. The only exception is if the seller sold them as a Photo Listing describing that the case was opened.
there is no way on tcg player to sell an open case of 6 booster boxes unless they took a picture....you realize most people are lazy right? The owner certainly can complain and get a refund...it ends there. They should have communicated and or bought from a more reputable source.
I'm not sure if "most people are lazy" is a valid excuse. We don't know who this seller is so we don't know their motivations for shipping an opened case nor whether they are reputable, but we're talking about an item over $1,000, the buyer should have an expectation that item matches the description. And in this case if they're too lazy to sell under a Photo Listing, they should have listed as 6 quantity of Sealed CBBs. Otherwise, what's to stop selling 30 loose packs in an opened box as a Sealed Booster?
It's not an excuse its just expectation on a site that is a market place and not a big store or corporation. Not everyone adheres to marketplace policy. Plus the marketplace doesn't have any consequences for violations of their policy other than a refund. You are right there is nothing to stop people from selling 30 loose packs, in the form of a booster box. But there is a economic hurdle. 30 loose booster packs cost more than most sealed mtg boxes.