Phantom of the Opera is being cast too young. He is not meant to be a couple of years older than Christine, he's meant to be old enough to be her father and that's very much part of his strange allure for her.
I can comfortably say the one in London right now is in his 40s.(original Princeton/rod in londons avenue q).
Cant say anything about the others of recent, though .
The production I saw recently in Melbourne had Josh Piterman who looked younger than Christine. Then you've got Ramin K in the proshot and he looks 27. I need Phantom to be more Michael Crawford aged.
Well, yes, but that's not why. He's meant to be in his 40s or older because he is older, for sure, but he's meant to be an angel sent by her father, not her father himself. He's absolutely not meant to be young and it pisses me off when he is, mostly because it's usually just a good excuse for EC shippers to say "look! It's not *as* problematic now, he's young too!" But he's not pretending to be her father, and that's a misconception that always annoys me, especially because it literally got put into the movie and it's not even correct. "Do you think the spirit of your fathers coaching you?" "Who else, meg?" Well, maybe the angel that he promised to send you? Like, the person the entire song is about? No? Okay. (Or ofc maybe a creepy homicidal stalker of hers but other than that)
Chrisrine isn't sure herself though. She sings a line in the musical which is something like: "Angel or father, friend or Phantom, who is it there staring?"
Yeah, with the implication being "angel" (negative) or "father" (positive), "friend" (positive) or "phantom" (negative). She knows the angel and phantom are connected, because she knows her father is her friend. She's just in such a dark place that she wants to believe that one of them is here for her
It’s always so interesting how different peoples’ opinions are…….
I thought he was very good in Dear Evan Hansen (at least on stage), but that he wasn’t remotely right for Parade.
I still felt like I was watching some version of the Evan Hansen act in Parade, which I could sorta see fit with the Leo Frank character, but actually does not really cover it sufficiently.
I also saw his understudy Max Chernin, and he was so much better. Like so obviously better in that role that I can’t imagine that the rest of the company did not see that as well - hell, probably even Ben knew. I’m hoping they’re gonna let Max lead the upcoming tour.
Overrated maybe— but under talented is *crazy,* cmon now. I think we both know that isn’t quite true, though it’s fair if you don’t enjoy his style of performing personally
when i watched dear evan hansen i didn't like him (or the musical as a whole for that matter), but then i watched the book of mormon and he was amazing
sarah brightman, i can't stand her voice. whenever i hear opening notes of any phantom song when i listen to iheartradio broadway i hit the mute button
Sarah Brightman is one of those people whose voice does not translate well in electronic mediums. When we saw her live, I was astonished at how beautiful her voice was. Somehow it is never half as beautiful when recorded
i loved sarah brightman when i was a teenager. i wanted to sing just like her. and she definitely did help me develop my voice.
and then when i finally took voice lessons as an adult, my voice teacher told me exactly why she didn't like sarah. and i can hear her points. but she will still hold a special place in my heart.
She’s Ine but I feel like she’s been miscast in every role she’s ever played. I don’t think she’d have the career she does was it not for her following
Came here to say this. Her voice is lovely, but she cannot act and constantly does the same Face™️, no matter what emotion she’s trying to convey.
She only gets cast because of her following. But tbh, I don’t even know why she has that following, because her attitude and behaviour on social media is…not it. Very unprofessional and rude imo.
There’s almost too many to name. She regularly uses her platform to complain about service staff, often lashes out at fans who have legit concerns with snotty comments. She’s constantly going on rants about minor grievances in her stories and sends her fans to bully anyone who she feels has wronged her.
One recent example of this type of behaviour was when she saw a tweet from someone asking for book recommendations for their friend with a terminal illness. She recommended her own book, and upon being called out for being inappropriate, deleted her Twitter page and posted an instagram story rant with a lot of eye rolling about social media trolls etc…
Worth reading the [controversies section](https://tattle.life/wiki/carrie-hope-fletcher) of this thread about her. It’s very fair and factual.
Oh, both her and her fanbase go apeshit over any criticism. Iirc, last March she doxxed a fan account bc they criticized how fast she got married. They’re unhinged. In the worst way possible.
Hard agree. Her acting is poor and her accent work is pretty horrific. Shes a decent singer (wish she looked after her voice a bit better) but in a world where there is so much talent I don't believe she was the right choice for any of her roles post her first time in Les mis.
I have to disagree. I saw her as Fantine and she was breathtaking. I’ve never heard a better version of I Dreamed a Dream, and I’ve seen at least 20 Fantines. I haven’t seen her in anything else but in Les Mis she was outstanding.
I don’t like any of these young pretty white boys they keep casting as Sweeney Todd. I don’t care how nice their voices are - I do not believe that Josh Groban or Aaron Tveit would slit people’s throats. They need to get some fucking weirdos to play that guy. Get Terrence Mann.
Saw Michael Cerveris's production live, back in the day. That man would have slit your throat, dragged out your entrails with his bare hands, and eaten them like a starved dog. Seeing him show up after that in TV shows i was watching was a trip, because I'd get a cold shiver of dread even if he wasn't playing a villain. It all played very well into the asylum conceit the production had, which is also just about the last time I've seen the "all the performers are in a looney bin playing these characters and putting on a show" shtick/conceit done well.
I also saw Michael Ceveris and Patti Lupone and the thing that got me about that production was their chemistry. I was sure that after the end of A Little Priest they tore each other’s clothes off and got busy. (Characters, not actors)
Yeah, I agree. I think that's one of the productions where I'd buy that Sweeney wasn't oblivious or above Mrs. Lovett's advances. I think they just used each other, in every sense of the word.
I'm pretty sure after that show, I went home to try and find fanfiction of the show. Tragically, it was the aughties, so if there was anything, it was terrible.
He often plays creepy characters on TV too -- he's amazing in villain roles! And ironically, one of the friendliest and warmest actors I've ever met at a stage door. In real life, he radiates kindness. I've noticed that about a lot of character actors who play villains, actually.
I would have loved if they had cast Norbert Leo Butz as the replacement Sweeney. Not only could he act the hell out of the role, **he’s actually a baritone**!!
Norbert is a tenor! Different sound from Aaron which is another thing..y’all are dreamcasting Raúl too and he’s also a tenor. but listening to The Last Five Years, Norbert’s timbre sounds tenor-y. He just does a lot of covering to sound darker. And just has a more masculine tone. But I still think he sounds like a tenor.
In fairness to Groban and Tveit, they're 44 and 40, respectively, today. The musical doesn't dive deeply into the ages, but in the original penny dreadful story, he was sent to jail for 15 years at the age of 14 or 15 years old. So, by the "canon" Sweeney shouldn't be any older than 30. Casting a 40 year old services the looks a bit better because 15 years in prison that start when you're a teen will probably age you an extra 10 years, if not more. The difficulty is that modern actors have a 21st century nutrition behind them which makes them appear much younger than we think based on older photographs or historical recordings.
Personally, the pretty boy look for Sweeney plays really well imo. He's a nice kid with a lovely wife who got sent to prison and was fucked over by a corrupt society. He's sharpened by his need for revenge and hatred of the world, but he doesn't need to be made ugly and weird to depict that. We have enough of that kind of representation in the world today. Pretty white boys can be just as vile and make the same evil deals that any weird, ugly, old man can.
Yes about Sweeney being attractive, Mrs.Lovett literally says it and, much like Johanna, fell in love before she actually knew him / because of his looks. Also, Todd and Anthony are certainly mirrors of each other, with Anthony being a representation of Todd when he was younger and \~naive\~.
Of course, the Sondheim musical only bears a passing resemblance to the source material, *The String of Pearls*. According to the musical, Sweeney was a youngish married man when he was transported, so casting someone north of around 35 is probably just fine. And, for the record, I thought Groban’s performance was more than fine.
Same!! I really like the "pretty boy" Sweeney thing. It makes it even creepier because he doesn't really look like someone who would slit your throat but he is. Even Lovett calls him beautiful and I've always had this headcanon the Sweeney was really handsome when he was younger lol.
However, from bootleg recordings I've listened to so far, I do think that Aaron was miscast.
they’re trying to make sweeney todd as a whole be sexy with this revival. it’s weird. but the whole thing is still enjoyable. get Con O’Neill in there. man’s face is thirsty for blood
I'd agree if Con O'Neill wasn't the most tenor to ever tenor and Sweeney Todd requires a bass/baritone. I love my feral rat man but voice-wise it wouldn't work.
I also don’t find his acting very spectacular tbh - I feel like he’s doing the same act over and over again, which also doesn’t seem too far removed from who he is in real life. It was great for DEH and he deserves all the praise for that, but I think his range as an actor is quite limited. I doubt he could ever convincingly play a self-confident character.
Alfie Boe. Here’s the thing, this man is insanely talented, but I don’t think musical theater is the right fit for him. His voice feels like it belongs in a classical opera, not musical theatre. His Jean Valjean is so bizarrely out of place that it’s cringey and hard to watch for me. Playing a convict on the run with a perfect polished operatic voice doesn’t fit. The line, “Took the silver, took my fliiiiight” is a prime example. It’s yell/belt/screlt as JVJ is running away, and a perfect vibrato operatic note there is so out of place.
(And yes, I know Les Mis is technically an opera, but you know what I’m meaning when I say classical opera.)
I don't know if it's as unpopular anymore, but I've never particularly liked Laura osnes. Her voice just sounds hollow to me, especially when she tries to sing more quietly
I also don't dislike Jeremy Jordan, but he's not, like, an idol to me. Everyone's so obsessed, and I think he's great, but nothing all too special
Also, I guess a lot of people who play elphaba? It's not to say I dislike them in other roles, but they always get so unnecessarily harsh with their consonants and such a dark tone. I at least feel that way about some of the really popular ones like willemijn verkaik and Jessica vosk, which is interesting because I actually like willemijn a lot better when she's performing in German or Dutch, and I don't know much of Jessica's work, but I've quite enjoyed her in hazbin hotel, even if she's a minor character. But as elphaba (and elphaba in english in willemijn's case), I just don't love them. Idk what it is
Laura Osnes makes really bland, unconnected (and sometimes disjointed) choices.
Her voice is pretty, and her singing technique adequately carries that generic Disney ingenue style, but just listen to (for example) her Cinderella; the acting choices are totally disconnected from the lyrics and often the acting beat.
Carrie Hope Fletcher. I just don’t get the hype. I love Heathers but she made a terrible Veronica. And there were multiple other roles she just butchered
Agreed. I can recognise she’s talented, and some things she’s done genuinely were excellent, but I’m not a fan of her voice and her lack of diction in a lot of performances grate on me.
I don't care much for her either. I saw her in "Sunset Boulevard," and she was fine for the part. However, I read her autobiography, and she comes across as egotistical and cold.
Oh god, prepared for the downvotes here. I think there is a certain brand of very attractive young tenor that people seem to lose their minds over and who I find to be overrated. Think Jeremy Jordan, Aaron Tveit, etc.
I don’t *dislike* these actors. They all have plenty of talent. But the way people fawn over them as if they are god’s gifts to the artform can get a bit grating.
I must fight you now /j . Nah, I get what you mean. I love Jeremy Jordan. Had the perfect over the top acting in Newsies, amazing voice acting in Tangled the Series. Definitely draws people in, and he is amazing, but fans can be a bit…extreme. Unfortunately, he’s not perfect for every role despite what people wish (hope this makes sense? I’m tired. Not meant to be mean or directed at you in any way)
I know people are going to fight me on this, but I genuinely love Jeremy Jordan and I think he's actually underrated. I promise your criticisms are valid even though I don't get it.
Do I think they're the GOAT? Heavens no. Do I absolutely adore both of them anyway? Definitely! But that largely has to do with the fact that I fell in love with them before I found out they did theater, so the fact that they've been on Broadway is just a fun bonus!
Lin Manuel Miranda
I do give him credit
he wrote a whole musical
but i don't think his voice is great & i feel like he takes over every project because Hamilton got popular.
there's a lot of independent musical theatre performers & composers that could have been better, like in Mary Poppins returns.
he pops up everywhere, the same with James Corden.
LMM is, in my opinion, a brilliant lyricist and wonderful composer. He's a good actor, too. But his singing voice is just not it. It's extremely apparent on the Hamilton cast recording when he's singing duets and the other cast members are so good and he's barely in tune.
Yes. When he was in Hamilton and singing every single day, he sounded okay. (Still not great, but also not bad.) Then when he left and stopped singing every day, he'd do stuff online and it was bad. *Bad* bad.
I think he's a genius, pulling Hamilton the musical out of that huge dry book is absolutely incredible. But he needs to just write the show and cast someone else next time.
>It's extremely apparent on the Hamilton cast recording when he's singing duets and the other cast members are so good and he's barely in tune.
I don't agree that he is barely in tune in the Hamilton recording. But I do agree that during duets LMM sounds really out of place. It's his tone that I really dislike, he sounds like a muppet in the Hamilton recording. Which is weird because I don't have that issue with LMM on the In The Heights recording.
Couple of points. First, I apologize in advance if I’m putting words in your mouth, but I don’t quite understand why performers merit disapproval simply because they happen to be popular at the moment. Performers should be judged on their merits. Second, I get your point about Miranda‘s voice. Miranda himself has been quite frank when it comes to discussing his vocal shortcomings. What I personally like about his singing is its emotionally expressive quality. This is something that’s sometimes lacking in the performances of others, even though their voices may be technically superior.
I feel a similar way. I was lucky enough to see Hamilton in the West End and was especially excited to see (and hear) someone else play Hamilton, but the lack of energy - despite the clear upgrade in technicality - was a big letdown for me.
I dont dislike LMM but I agree about the voice. I dont mind it in the context of Hamilton only because Im used to it, but Ive also heard better vocalists for Hamilton’s role.
Other than that I dont have any issues with him and think he’s a really good composer and lyricist.
That was my thought when I finally saw Hamilton live in Chicago last fall. I was nervous going into it since I'd been listening to the Broadway soundtrack for years and associated the songs with the original actors, but I was blown away by the actor who played Hamilton. Hurricane nearly made me cry with how impactful it was with a very talented vocalist.
As someone who has written a musical himself, and who also used to do quite a bit of theater, they are completely different skills and completely different strengths. Just because you're good at one doesn't mean you're good in the other.
I'm not sure he counts as a musical theatre actor, though he does *do* a lot of it, so maybe?
For me, I can't get behind James Cordon. His voice is grating, and his acting is so bland. So much affectation and glibness with no substance. I'd say he's like candyfloss but I love that.
Also, and I am bracing for hate here, Idina Menzel. Yes, she definitely has a fantastic voice, but it's always the same with her (to me, at least). Her Maureen sounds like her Elpheba sounds like her Elsa.
Editing to add: Andrew Polec. He's got an awesome voice for sure, but his acting... It was a masterclass in scenery-chomping. When he was Strat in Bat Out of Hell I honestly hoped for one of his two alts, because they were utterly jaw-droppingly amazing in different ways. And they didn't nom scenery.
Frankly, his presence in the Into the Woods movie renders it unwatchable. There's honestly nothing redeeming about Corden. He is awful on screen, on stage, and in real life.
My sentiments exactly! I groan every time he's inserted into a film, because I know he's going to be just the same vapid and unpleasant character as always. It's like he has one mode and it's the same for every single thing he does.
Obviously agree on James Cordon.
And (hiding and bracing with you - I am not a fan of Idina. Definitely fantastic voice - I get it, but yes... Not for meee
Hugh Jackman. I just can't take his vibrato and this is wild...i preferred Russell Crowe in Les Mis to him because that's how much I hate Hugh Jackman's voice.
Hugh should have been Javert if they wanted him in the movie that much, at least he would have been able to sing Stars in the original key. They should have cast an actual broadway performer to do Valjean
sorry i probably should have slipped the word tenor in the somewhere, not denying hugh's talent but he doesn't quite have the upper end of valjean's range
He's a baritone singing a tenor role. It's very apparent in bring him home it's well outside of his range. Instead of sounding angelic it sounds incredibly strained.
I 100% agree he should have been Javert and it would be an against type casting.
I think they cast Hugh Jackman for the star power and not the voice. He's just not a tenor and could not hit those high notes at all. With Russell Crowe, I got the sense he was just acting harder than he was singing. Jackman was just miscast.
I agree with you. He ruined Les Mis for me. Even Eddie “Kermit the Frog” Redmayne was better. His voice sounded strained and he is so over the top with the vibrato. I thought it was a one-off, maybe because of the crazy diet or the live recording, but then I heard the Greatest Shownan soundtrack and it’s exactly the same. I have no idea how that guy has had a singing career.
She did my friends’ musical comedy show back in November and was delightful in it and very open to what was thrown at her, and could not have been nicer when I met her afterwards (which was very late at night when she probably just wanted to be with people she actually knew). I think she just has a low tolerance for what annoys her and a lot annoys her, and she’s probably outspoken about it in a way that most people are afraid to be (or are encouraged, as women, not to be)
I feel like Idina’s nerves get to her and we wind up with consistency issues, and then people discredit her talent. (I’ve also heard she has asthma, I don’t know if that’s ever been confirmed or just rumored in regards to the Tonys.) I have seen her live and in her element, and it was some of her best vocals I’ve ever heard. Very consistent and truly insane the power with which she belts. I think her nerves just do her in, especially on camera.
I was gonna make this comment.
I saw Idina in Wicked. Ill always remember the night, because Butz was out and Taye Diggs was his understudy. I hadnt known prior to getting the Playbill and flipped. It was the best performances of any live show Ive ever seen. Idina was on fire, her and Taye were completely wrapped up in each other at all the right moments. Just *chefs kiss*.
Saw her again live doing some original songs a few years later and it was so inconsistent, even breaking some notes. And then with the whole Frozen hype, I just didnt get it.
I was a pretty big fan as a kid. Got her album and everything. But as Ive grown older the spark has definitely diminished some.
Agreed. Her hissy fits over people filming or recording are a huge turn-off.
Now, I get you want to keep the integrity of the show. But, you can stop a bootlegger while remaining in character (a death glare in their direction). I personally feel that, if I were an actor my fellow actor stopping a show to yell at a bootlegger would be more distracting to me than the actual bootlegger.
To be clear, she has only stopped a show once, and it was not to stop a bootlegger. It was to stop a photographer that the stage management had failed to warn the cast about. It was a mistake on her part, but it was also a mistake that no one warned the actors there would be frequent flashes and camera noises going off.
The other “incidents” are where she silently grabbed a bootleggers phone without stopping the show (it was returned after the show) and when she yelled at anti-maskers during a talkback *after* the show.
Fine if you don’t like her, it just bugs me how people have the perception that she’s constantly stopping shows to yell at people.
Thank you, thank you. Everyone thinks she’s stopped multiple shows. I’ve had to set the record straight here a few times because people get the details wrong. She’s been on stage for 50 years and has stopped a single show, the context of which is important. She had been tolerating the photographer for the whole act, too, from my understanding, and finally had had it.
She’s a professional in every sense of the word and has performed through all sorts of audiences. It was her penultimate Rose’s Turn. She should have been told about the photographer, and she apologized to her afterward.
I don't even think her voice is that pretty tbh. She hasn't got enough sense of dynamics or expression to flavour the singing enough for musical theatre.
Yes, her inability to dance bugs me to no end. I feel like they had to alter the choreography in Addams Family because of her inability or lack of desire to even try dancing.
Her acting is on par with the 12 year olds the cast on Disney Channel then promptly cancel their shows. So not good.
Her voice is okay but I think she doesn't understand the type of voice she has and gets miscast easily because of her following.
You need to listen to the NY Theater Workshop for Rent. I literally couldn’t believe it was her, she sounds completely different in tone. Personally I think smoking & bad technique did a number on her voice by the time the Broadway show came out. 🤷♀️
I agree. I really never enjoyed her Mimi. But I've been surprised by how much I've enjoyed her in Hazbin Hotel. I feel she's come into her voice more as she's matured and it's a lot less grating.
There's a reason why I don't like listening to the OBC and almost exclusively listen to the movie soundtrack. Her voice is just... thin? Like it doesn't have any depth or emotion.
Why they never released the 2008 version with Renee Elise Goldsberry on CD is beyond me.
God, saying this feels so mean, but for the entire show it felt like he was doing his best to impersonate an anime voiceover actor for a teenage boy protagonist. It was the only thing I didn’t love about hadestown when I went to see it
That’s such an apt description. His portrayal of Orpheus read to me as very late 00’s hipster-inspired, which felt so cringey and dated in 2023. He didn’t seem young he just seemed weird and out of touch.
I dont think this is unpopular at all. From what i've seen, most people aren't big fans of Reeve's Orpheus. Eva on the other hand was amazing and truly carried the show.
I came here to say this. Sure, she can dance her ass off but so can a lot of people on Broadway. I find her voice incredibly grating and technically poor. Also I don't think she's that amazing of an actress.
I almost bought the 2021 Music Man soundtrack with her and Hugh Jackman (my sister is a HUGE Hugh Jackman fan), but chose not to after I watched a couple of clips on Youtube. There's a specific kind of... I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's a tone of voice that some actors have that makes it obvious they're acting, and she has that in spades, *and it bugs me so much.*
Going to get downvoted to hell for this but Sierra Boggess. Don't get me wrong, she's extremely talented and her voice is heavenly. But there's a weird trend of putting down every other actress who plays Christine because "Sierra is better." And it feels rather unfair particularly as Sierra herself goes around telling everyone that they are "enough" and trying to inspire people. And I've liked the other Christines I've heard for what it's worth🤷♀️
I apologize in advance. I know I’m going to annoy you here. I’ve never been a Phantom fan, and one reason of many is the dreadful “Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again.” Cloying, amateurish melody, stilted lyrics, nothing to act.
I was invited to the 25th Anniversary performance on Broadway, and was prepared for the worst. I only had seen Boggess in The Little Mermaid.
She reeled me in from the very moment she appeared on stage. She made the normally passive, damsel-in-distress role of Christine into something entirely new for me. Then came “Wishing…”
Her voice was glorious, but it was her acting — she somehow made that horrible song work! She made it make sense even though it doesn’t. She made it make sense to HER and put that across the footlights. I’ll never forget it.
Her Christine was the driving force behind that anniversary cast, and for me, much more compelling than the Phantom character.
I only saw her in person once, and that was quite late in her career, but even listening to recordings of her in her prime I’ve just never understood the appeal of Carol Channing.
I must speak up about Miss Channing, as she was more talented than people grasped.
The voice and affectation was something she developed for Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and pulled out throughout the years until it became her voice.
In reality, she was not blonde nor squeaky until it became the way to succeed.
Listen to her in Marc Blitzstein's No For An Answer or watch her do her expert impressions of Sophie Tucker, Carmen Miranda or older Marlene Dietrich and you see just what a talent she was.
I saw her do Dolly in the 1970s, 80s and 90s and she got the same huge laughs and waves of love from the audience every time. I saw her one woman show in many locations, even outdoors at Epcot Center to a huge crowd and she wowed everyone.
She also always made a point to never miss a performance... something nobody holds very important these days.
Here's a video of her doing Dietrich
and one of my favorite characters from her act, Miss C. S. :
https://youtu.be/6TTQ0MGY_D4?si=IrxPticXSPGW49a-
Cool video. Thanks for the link. I think I understand your point. I’m not at all saying that she was untalented. Maybe what I’m trying to say is that by the time I was exposed to her she had morphed into the persona you describe so well above. Almost a parody of herself.
Darren Criss.
He sounds fine when he's singing stuff he wrote, and I'm sure he's a pretty decent guy, but I could not stand him on Glee (especially because it basically became the Blaine show the second he got on) and I think pretty much every musical role he has played could and would have been (or has been) played better by others.
darren has a nice voice but he's talked about how he has a vocal defect which stops him fully closing the space between his chords & expanding his range/power, and i think that explains a lot. the problem is he keeps getting cast in roles which call for way more range than he has - he was such a bad fit for freddie in chess. i do think he has an incredible feel for musicality, though.
Darren does NOT have a broadway voice. Case closed. He knows it and has talked about it at length! Acting wise, he brings so much. And, yeah his musicality is out of this world.
Yeah, I think I might enjoy his performance in roles he is right for, but you hit the nail on the head that he keeps getting cast in roles that are out of his range. I really would like to see him in a strictly comedic role because I think he'd have fun with it, like Ogie in Waitress, but his fans would have an absolute conniption shit fit that he wasn't Pomatter.
Oh freddie was sure out of his range. But let's not forget he had 2 days to rehearse that one time role and was a better actor on this that almost all his cast mates
yeah that's fair enough! maybe it was unfair to pick freddie as the example & i know he was sick during the concert too, but i just thought it was a bafflingly bad casting choice. freddie is the ne plus ultra of high tenor roles & darren is the opposite of that. considering chess only ever gets staged in concert nowadays, i thought it did both the show & darren a disservice.
Idina Menzel. The first time I heard her voice I was....surprised lol. It sounded very, very grating to me. And I couldn't understand why people liked it.
Frances Ruffelle. I was genuinely shocked when I heard her in the OLC version of Les Mis from 1985, because it's the one time I've ever heard her *not* sing entirely through her nose. I legit have no idea what happened between being in the London cast and moving to Broadway. Her voice is so jarring that I still can't listen to the OBC version without cracking up at "every word that he says is a dagger in me" because of how jarring it is. You know immediately which of the "lovely ladies" she's playing in the 2012 version (the one who says "make money in your sleep") because no one else sings through her nose like that.
rachel zegler. she gives me such rachel berry vibes and NOT in a good way. She’s good at singing but the way she acts and moves her mouth just….. really gets to me
Her voice is phenomenal but her acting in ballad of songbirds and snakes was honestly distracting, her style felt very theatrical and it didn't translate well on screen. That being said I loved her performance in west side story
I’m scared to admit this lol… Bernadette Peters
I want to like her, I really do. There’s something about the sound of voice that annoys me. I don’t know what it is.
Ellen Greene. Ppl say she’s their favorite Audrey, and that’s cool, but I, I just can’t hear it. I really don’t understand the hype around her Suddenly Seymour. Maybe she’s really good at acting tho.
Jeremy Jordan. Don’t get me wrong, his voice is angelic, you might say, but other than that - I just don’t see the appeal. Loved him as Morningstar tho.
Aaron Tveit. Y’know, his voice is also nice to listen to, but I don’t get why people love him so much. I just don’t get his utterly loyal fanbase.
I saw Ellen do that role live, and she was just so much more intense and wonderful than the film. She had to tone it way back. But she just smashed it.
In rent she was amazing. Maybe even in wicked when it first debuted. BUT now hearing other actresses play Elphaba she is by far the least actress I like in that role now
Hugh Jackman!! And, I'm sorry to say it, because I LOVE the West End, but Carrie Hope Fletcher. She's pretty unremarkable, and is West-End good but not good enough for Broadway. Very much a big fish in a small pond, is what it always feels like.
idina menzel (im sorry pls don’t kill me) her voice is very bright? if thats the correct term? its just my preference j like the darker sounds in a voice
Phantom of the Opera is being cast too young. He is not meant to be a couple of years older than Christine, he's meant to be old enough to be her father and that's very much part of his strange allure for her.
Same with Valjean and Javert! They aren’t supposed to be hunky men!
Well, Valjean is supposed to be a very strong man, even in late middle age
I can comfortably say the one in London right now is in his 40s.(original Princeton/rod in londons avenue q). Cant say anything about the others of recent, though .
The production I saw recently in Melbourne had Josh Piterman who looked younger than Christine. Then you've got Ramin K in the proshot and he looks 27. I need Phantom to be more Michael Crawford aged.
Well, yes, but that's not why. He's meant to be in his 40s or older because he is older, for sure, but he's meant to be an angel sent by her father, not her father himself. He's absolutely not meant to be young and it pisses me off when he is, mostly because it's usually just a good excuse for EC shippers to say "look! It's not *as* problematic now, he's young too!" But he's not pretending to be her father, and that's a misconception that always annoys me, especially because it literally got put into the movie and it's not even correct. "Do you think the spirit of your fathers coaching you?" "Who else, meg?" Well, maybe the angel that he promised to send you? Like, the person the entire song is about? No? Okay. (Or ofc maybe a creepy homicidal stalker of hers but other than that)
Chrisrine isn't sure herself though. She sings a line in the musical which is something like: "Angel or father, friend or Phantom, who is it there staring?"
Yeah, with the implication being "angel" (negative) or "father" (positive), "friend" (positive) or "phantom" (negative). She knows the angel and phantom are connected, because she knows her father is her friend. She's just in such a dark place that she wants to believe that one of them is here for her
Ah, it's such a great story and musical the way it inspires all this analysis. I love it so much.
Ben Platt is every theater kid I went to highschool with. Under talented and overconfident.
Had I only seen him in *Dear Evan Hansen*, I might have agreed with you. Watching his performance in *Parade* really changed my feelings about him.
For me it was Theater Camp. He is amazing in that movie.
It’s always so interesting how different peoples’ opinions are……. I thought he was very good in Dear Evan Hansen (at least on stage), but that he wasn’t remotely right for Parade.
I still felt like I was watching some version of the Evan Hansen act in Parade, which I could sorta see fit with the Leo Frank character, but actually does not really cover it sufficiently. I also saw his understudy Max Chernin, and he was so much better. Like so obviously better in that role that I can’t imagine that the rest of the company did not see that as well - hell, probably even Ben knew. I’m hoping they’re gonna let Max lead the upcoming tour.
Well you would find the movie Theater Camp hilarious, he plays an undertalented and overconfident theater teacher and he gets really unhinged with it.
I cannot get past his super fast and super prevalent vibrato on every single note
Overrated maybe— but under talented is *crazy,* cmon now. I think we both know that isn’t quite true, though it’s fair if you don’t enjoy his style of performing personally
I feel like he peaked in Pitch Perfect. 👀👀
when i watched dear evan hansen i didn't like him (or the musical as a whole for that matter), but then i watched the book of mormon and he was amazing
sarah brightman, i can't stand her voice. whenever i hear opening notes of any phantom song when i listen to iheartradio broadway i hit the mute button
Her voice (and technique) have matured a LOT in the last 30 years. Listen to her on the Repo! soundtrack; she sounds much different.
Chromaggia and Chase the Morning are both so good
Chromaggia makes me cry. It's so beautiful. I love Repo!
Sarah Brightman is one of those people whose voice does not translate well in electronic mediums. When we saw her live, I was astonished at how beautiful her voice was. Somehow it is never half as beautiful when recorded
i loved sarah brightman when i was a teenager. i wanted to sing just like her. and she definitely did help me develop my voice. and then when i finally took voice lessons as an adult, my voice teacher told me exactly why she didn't like sarah. and i can hear her points. but she will still hold a special place in my heart.
And for me it's the woman who plays Carlotta. I am in complete agreement with the Phantom on her. lol
Carrie hope fletcher. She’s good but I feel like there’s nothing special about her voice in comparison to other people I’ve heard
She’s Ine but I feel like she’s been miscast in every role she’s ever played. I don’t think she’d have the career she does was it not for her following
I agree with this with the exception of Eponine
Have to disagree. Saw her as Eponine and hated her. She called in the performance and it was dire. Only time I didn't cry when Eponine died.
Came here to say this. Her voice is lovely, but she cannot act and constantly does the same Face™️, no matter what emotion she’s trying to convey. She only gets cast because of her following. But tbh, I don’t even know why she has that following, because her attitude and behaviour on social media is…not it. Very unprofessional and rude imo.
> because her attitude and behaviour on social media is…not it. Very unprofessional and rude imo. i don't follow her socials, what happened?
There’s almost too many to name. She regularly uses her platform to complain about service staff, often lashes out at fans who have legit concerns with snotty comments. She’s constantly going on rants about minor grievances in her stories and sends her fans to bully anyone who she feels has wronged her. One recent example of this type of behaviour was when she saw a tweet from someone asking for book recommendations for their friend with a terminal illness. She recommended her own book, and upon being called out for being inappropriate, deleted her Twitter page and posted an instagram story rant with a lot of eye rolling about social media trolls etc… Worth reading the [controversies section](https://tattle.life/wiki/carrie-hope-fletcher) of this thread about her. It’s very fair and factual.
I definitely agree. And I feel like I’ll get hate for saying this but I wish we had another Veronica on the UK Heathers soundtrack (sorry!!).
Oh, both her and her fanbase go apeshit over any criticism. Iirc, last March she doxxed a fan account bc they criticized how fast she got married. They’re unhinged. In the worst way possible.
Valid except for I Say No.
Her rabid fan girls and their horrific behaviour mean it's just not worth seeing anything she's in.
Hard agree. Her acting is poor and her accent work is pretty horrific. Shes a decent singer (wish she looked after her voice a bit better) but in a world where there is so much talent I don't believe she was the right choice for any of her roles post her first time in Les mis.
I have to disagree. I saw her as Fantine and she was breathtaking. I’ve never heard a better version of I Dreamed a Dream, and I’ve seen at least 20 Fantines. I haven’t seen her in anything else but in Les Mis she was outstanding.
I don’t like any of these young pretty white boys they keep casting as Sweeney Todd. I don’t care how nice their voices are - I do not believe that Josh Groban or Aaron Tveit would slit people’s throats. They need to get some fucking weirdos to play that guy. Get Terrence Mann.
Some older weirdos, frankly!
literally just have Len Cariou come back
I saw him in ST on Broadway in 1979. Yes, I am old, but he was outstanding (Mrs Lovett was Dorothy Loudon that night, not Angle Lansbury)
I'm old too and saw it with len and Angela and then the tour with George and Angela. I just couldn't stand seeing josh croon his way through it.
We are reddit outliers, you know.
Yeah, Josh Groban was fine, but I never really bought that he'd kill anyone. Michael Cerveris? 100% believed he'd slit someone's throat
Saw Michael Cerveris's production live, back in the day. That man would have slit your throat, dragged out your entrails with his bare hands, and eaten them like a starved dog. Seeing him show up after that in TV shows i was watching was a trip, because I'd get a cold shiver of dread even if he wasn't playing a villain. It all played very well into the asylum conceit the production had, which is also just about the last time I've seen the "all the performers are in a looney bin playing these characters and putting on a show" shtick/conceit done well.
I also saw Michael Ceveris and Patti Lupone and the thing that got me about that production was their chemistry. I was sure that after the end of A Little Priest they tore each other’s clothes off and got busy. (Characters, not actors)
Yeah, I agree. I think that's one of the productions where I'd buy that Sweeney wasn't oblivious or above Mrs. Lovett's advances. I think they just used each other, in every sense of the word. I'm pretty sure after that show, I went home to try and find fanfiction of the show. Tragically, it was the aughties, so if there was anything, it was terrible.
He often plays creepy characters on TV too -- he's amazing in villain roles! And ironically, one of the friendliest and warmest actors I've ever met at a stage door. In real life, he radiates kindness. I've noticed that about a lot of character actors who play villains, actually.
I would have loved if they had cast Norbert Leo Butz as the replacement Sweeney. Not only could he act the hell out of the role, **he’s actually a baritone**!!
Norbert is a tenor! Different sound from Aaron which is another thing..y’all are dreamcasting Raúl too and he’s also a tenor. but listening to The Last Five Years, Norbert’s timbre sounds tenor-y. He just does a lot of covering to sound darker. And just has a more masculine tone. But I still think he sounds like a tenor.
Michael is such a better choice
I saw Michael Cerveris and Patti LuPone. Both were outstanding. Cerveris doing My Friends is one of the most chilling things I’ve seen.
Michael Cerveris is my Sweeney, now and forever.
In fairness to Groban and Tveit, they're 44 and 40, respectively, today. The musical doesn't dive deeply into the ages, but in the original penny dreadful story, he was sent to jail for 15 years at the age of 14 or 15 years old. So, by the "canon" Sweeney shouldn't be any older than 30. Casting a 40 year old services the looks a bit better because 15 years in prison that start when you're a teen will probably age you an extra 10 years, if not more. The difficulty is that modern actors have a 21st century nutrition behind them which makes them appear much younger than we think based on older photographs or historical recordings. Personally, the pretty boy look for Sweeney plays really well imo. He's a nice kid with a lovely wife who got sent to prison and was fucked over by a corrupt society. He's sharpened by his need for revenge and hatred of the world, but he doesn't need to be made ugly and weird to depict that. We have enough of that kind of representation in the world today. Pretty white boys can be just as vile and make the same evil deals that any weird, ugly, old man can.
Yes about Sweeney being attractive, Mrs.Lovett literally says it and, much like Johanna, fell in love before she actually knew him / because of his looks. Also, Todd and Anthony are certainly mirrors of each other, with Anthony being a representation of Todd when he was younger and \~naive\~.
Of course, the Sondheim musical only bears a passing resemblance to the source material, *The String of Pearls*. According to the musical, Sweeney was a youngish married man when he was transported, so casting someone north of around 35 is probably just fine. And, for the record, I thought Groban’s performance was more than fine.
Same!! I really like the "pretty boy" Sweeney thing. It makes it even creepier because he doesn't really look like someone who would slit your throat but he is. Even Lovett calls him beautiful and I've always had this headcanon the Sweeney was really handsome when he was younger lol. However, from bootleg recordings I've listened to so far, I do think that Aaron was miscast.
they’re trying to make sweeney todd as a whole be sexy with this revival. it’s weird. but the whole thing is still enjoyable. get Con O’Neill in there. man’s face is thirsty for blood
I wanted them to make it sexier and cast Joshua Henry lol
Holy crap Con O'Neil would be amazing.
I'd agree if Con O'Neill wasn't the most tenor to ever tenor and Sweeney Todd requires a bass/baritone. I love my feral rat man but voice-wise it wouldn't work.
Terrence motherfrickin' Mann, yes!
Ben Platt. That overwrought vibrato schtick.
I also don’t find his acting very spectacular tbh - I feel like he’s doing the same act over and over again, which also doesn’t seem too far removed from who he is in real life. It was great for DEH and he deserves all the praise for that, but I think his range as an actor is quite limited. I doubt he could ever convincingly play a self-confident character.
Eh. I don’t even give him credit for that, especially when other Evans (see- Andrew Barth Feldman) blow him out of the water
His technique is so bad.
Alfie Boe. Here’s the thing, this man is insanely talented, but I don’t think musical theater is the right fit for him. His voice feels like it belongs in a classical opera, not musical theatre. His Jean Valjean is so bizarrely out of place that it’s cringey and hard to watch for me. Playing a convict on the run with a perfect polished operatic voice doesn’t fit. The line, “Took the silver, took my fliiiiight” is a prime example. It’s yell/belt/screlt as JVJ is running away, and a perfect vibrato operatic note there is so out of place. (And yes, I know Les Mis is technically an opera, but you know what I’m meaning when I say classical opera.)
I don't know if it's as unpopular anymore, but I've never particularly liked Laura osnes. Her voice just sounds hollow to me, especially when she tries to sing more quietly I also don't dislike Jeremy Jordan, but he's not, like, an idol to me. Everyone's so obsessed, and I think he's great, but nothing all too special Also, I guess a lot of people who play elphaba? It's not to say I dislike them in other roles, but they always get so unnecessarily harsh with their consonants and such a dark tone. I at least feel that way about some of the really popular ones like willemijn verkaik and Jessica vosk, which is interesting because I actually like willemijn a lot better when she's performing in German or Dutch, and I don't know much of Jessica's work, but I've quite enjoyed her in hazbin hotel, even if she's a minor character. But as elphaba (and elphaba in english in willemijn's case), I just don't love them. Idk what it is
Laura Osnes makes really bland, unconnected (and sometimes disjointed) choices. Her voice is pretty, and her singing technique adequately carries that generic Disney ingenue style, but just listen to (for example) her Cinderella; the acting choices are totally disconnected from the lyrics and often the acting beat.
*Deep breath in and out* It's fine that you think Jeremy Jordan is just okay. *Cries* In all seriousness, I respect your opinion.
Hahaha Hey, it's all unpopular opinions here. I don't dislike him, he's just not that unique imo
Ouch. I love Jeremy and Laura so much, but I can see where you’re coming from with Laura because I do agree.
I cannot stand Laura Osnes. Her voice is simply not good. I saw South Pacific and the lead was recast as her, and it was abysmal.
Carrie Hope Fletcher. I just don’t get the hype. I love Heathers but she made a terrible Veronica. And there were multiple other roles she just butchered
Lin Manuel Miranda. He may be a terrific writer, but man, the guy can't sing. Pitchy is being kind.
Came here to say this. He’s amazing in every other way, but his singing lacks. Hamilton is sooo much better played by other actors.
Patti Lupone (plz don't kill me)
Is she talented or is she just really loud?
Agreed. I can recognise she’s talented, and some things she’s done genuinely were excellent, but I’m not a fan of her voice and her lack of diction in a lot of performances grate on me.
Same. I don’t like her voice at all.
I don't care much for her either. I saw her in "Sunset Boulevard," and she was fine for the part. However, I read her autobiography, and she comes across as egotistical and cold.
Oh god, prepared for the downvotes here. I think there is a certain brand of very attractive young tenor that people seem to lose their minds over and who I find to be overrated. Think Jeremy Jordan, Aaron Tveit, etc. I don’t *dislike* these actors. They all have plenty of talent. But the way people fawn over them as if they are god’s gifts to the artform can get a bit grating.
Jeremy Jordan is amazing in Newsies because he embodies that quintessential over the top "theater kid" energy. In that case, it works well.
I must fight you now /j . Nah, I get what you mean. I love Jeremy Jordan. Had the perfect over the top acting in Newsies, amazing voice acting in Tangled the Series. Definitely draws people in, and he is amazing, but fans can be a bit…extreme. Unfortunately, he’s not perfect for every role despite what people wish (hope this makes sense? I’m tired. Not meant to be mean or directed at you in any way)
I know people are going to fight me on this, but I genuinely love Jeremy Jordan and I think he's actually underrated. I promise your criticisms are valid even though I don't get it.
DONT TOUCH MY JEREMY JORDAN BABY. I saw him live and he's just so precious. He's the one I will fight you on.
I will join in your crusade
I‘m completely on your side bro😭
Do I think they're the GOAT? Heavens no. Do I absolutely adore both of them anyway? Definitely! But that largely has to do with the fact that I fell in love with them before I found out they did theater, so the fact that they've been on Broadway is just a fun bonus!
*hisssss*
Lin Manuel Miranda I do give him credit he wrote a whole musical but i don't think his voice is great & i feel like he takes over every project because Hamilton got popular. there's a lot of independent musical theatre performers & composers that could have been better, like in Mary Poppins returns. he pops up everywhere, the same with James Corden.
LMM is, in my opinion, a brilliant lyricist and wonderful composer. He's a good actor, too. But his singing voice is just not it. It's extremely apparent on the Hamilton cast recording when he's singing duets and the other cast members are so good and he's barely in tune.
Yes. When he was in Hamilton and singing every single day, he sounded okay. (Still not great, but also not bad.) Then when he left and stopped singing every day, he'd do stuff online and it was bad. *Bad* bad. I think he's a genius, pulling Hamilton the musical out of that huge dry book is absolutely incredible. But he needs to just write the show and cast someone else next time.
>It's extremely apparent on the Hamilton cast recording when he's singing duets and the other cast members are so good and he's barely in tune. I don't agree that he is barely in tune in the Hamilton recording. But I do agree that during duets LMM sounds really out of place. It's his tone that I really dislike, he sounds like a muppet in the Hamilton recording. Which is weird because I don't have that issue with LMM on the In The Heights recording.
The fact that he once duetted with lea Salonga kills me a little. Like, she's so incredibly fabulous and he was... there too
Couple of points. First, I apologize in advance if I’m putting words in your mouth, but I don’t quite understand why performers merit disapproval simply because they happen to be popular at the moment. Performers should be judged on their merits. Second, I get your point about Miranda‘s voice. Miranda himself has been quite frank when it comes to discussing his vocal shortcomings. What I personally like about his singing is its emotionally expressive quality. This is something that’s sometimes lacking in the performances of others, even though their voices may be technically superior.
I feel a similar way. I was lucky enough to see Hamilton in the West End and was especially excited to see (and hear) someone else play Hamilton, but the lack of energy - despite the clear upgrade in technicality - was a big letdown for me.
Yeah, I thought he worked as Hamilton, because he was able to express the emotion well, e en if he was technically...well bad.
I dont dislike LMM but I agree about the voice. I dont mind it in the context of Hamilton only because Im used to it, but Ive also heard better vocalists for Hamilton’s role. Other than that I dont have any issues with him and think he’s a really good composer and lyricist.
Yes, to me he is a talented creative guy but not necessarily a front of camera talent
That was my thought when I finally saw Hamilton live in Chicago last fall. I was nervous going into it since I'd been listening to the Broadway soundtrack for years and associated the songs with the original actors, but I was blown away by the actor who played Hamilton. Hurricane nearly made me cry with how impactful it was with a very talented vocalist.
As someone who has written a musical himself, and who also used to do quite a bit of theater, they are completely different skills and completely different strengths. Just because you're good at one doesn't mean you're good in the other.
I'm not sure he counts as a musical theatre actor, though he does *do* a lot of it, so maybe? For me, I can't get behind James Cordon. His voice is grating, and his acting is so bland. So much affectation and glibness with no substance. I'd say he's like candyfloss but I love that. Also, and I am bracing for hate here, Idina Menzel. Yes, she definitely has a fantastic voice, but it's always the same with her (to me, at least). Her Maureen sounds like her Elpheba sounds like her Elsa. Editing to add: Andrew Polec. He's got an awesome voice for sure, but his acting... It was a masterclass in scenery-chomping. When he was Strat in Bat Out of Hell I honestly hoped for one of his two alts, because they were utterly jaw-droppingly amazing in different ways. And they didn't nom scenery.
Couldn’t agree more about James corden. I feel like he ruins musicals. Thank goodness he stayed out of wicked.
We don’t know the dillamond casting yet 😬
Don’t jinx!!
WE ARE SAFE OFFICIALLY NOW 🥳🥳
Oh my god I hadn't even thought of that. Thank all the musical deities he wasn't involved!
Not a Corden fan. He’s just so pleased with himself that I don’t need to be.
Frankly, his presence in the Into the Woods movie renders it unwatchable. There's honestly nothing redeeming about Corden. He is awful on screen, on stage, and in real life.
My sentiments exactly! I groan every time he's inserted into a film, because I know he's going to be just the same vapid and unpleasant character as always. It's like he has one mode and it's the same for every single thing he does.
Obviously agree on James Cordon. And (hiding and bracing with you - I am not a fan of Idina. Definitely fantastic voice - I get it, but yes... Not for meee
Hugh Jackman. I just can't take his vibrato and this is wild...i preferred Russell Crowe in Les Mis to him because that's how much I hate Hugh Jackman's voice.
Hugh should have been Javert if they wanted him in the movie that much, at least he would have been able to sing Stars in the original key. They should have cast an actual broadway performer to do Valjean
But Hugh Jackman is an actual Broadway performer? With a few Tonys under his belt?
sorry i probably should have slipped the word tenor in the somewhere, not denying hugh's talent but he doesn't quite have the upper end of valjean's range
He's a baritone singing a tenor role. It's very apparent in bring him home it's well outside of his range. Instead of sounding angelic it sounds incredibly strained. I 100% agree he should have been Javert and it would be an against type casting.
I think they cast Hugh Jackman for the star power and not the voice. He's just not a tenor and could not hit those high notes at all. With Russell Crowe, I got the sense he was just acting harder than he was singing. Jackman was just miscast.
I agree with you. He ruined Les Mis for me. Even Eddie “Kermit the Frog” Redmayne was better. His voice sounded strained and he is so over the top with the vibrato. I thought it was a one-off, maybe because of the crazy diet or the live recording, but then I heard the Greatest Shownan soundtrack and it’s exactly the same. I have no idea how that guy has had a singing career.
I get the impression that Barrett Wilbur Weed coasts on being an apathetic cool girl.
She did my friends’ musical comedy show back in November and was delightful in it and very open to what was thrown at her, and could not have been nicer when I met her afterwards (which was very late at night when she probably just wanted to be with people she actually knew). I think she just has a low tolerance for what annoys her and a lot annoys her, and she’s probably outspoken about it in a way that most people are afraid to be (or are encouraged, as women, not to be)
Idina Menzel. The belting drives me up a wall.
I feel like Idina’s nerves get to her and we wind up with consistency issues, and then people discredit her talent. (I’ve also heard she has asthma, I don’t know if that’s ever been confirmed or just rumored in regards to the Tonys.) I have seen her live and in her element, and it was some of her best vocals I’ve ever heard. Very consistent and truly insane the power with which she belts. I think her nerves just do her in, especially on camera.
I was gonna make this comment. I saw Idina in Wicked. Ill always remember the night, because Butz was out and Taye Diggs was his understudy. I hadnt known prior to getting the Playbill and flipped. It was the best performances of any live show Ive ever seen. Idina was on fire, her and Taye were completely wrapped up in each other at all the right moments. Just *chefs kiss*. Saw her again live doing some original songs a few years later and it was so inconsistent, even breaking some notes. And then with the whole Frozen hype, I just didnt get it. I was a pretty big fan as a kid. Got her album and everything. But as Ive grown older the spark has definitely diminished some.
I'm surprised I had to scroll down so far to find Idina - she's probably my top choice for this question
Waiting for the fruit to fly...Patti LuPone.
Agreed. Her hissy fits over people filming or recording are a huge turn-off. Now, I get you want to keep the integrity of the show. But, you can stop a bootlegger while remaining in character (a death glare in their direction). I personally feel that, if I were an actor my fellow actor stopping a show to yell at a bootlegger would be more distracting to me than the actual bootlegger.
To be clear, she has only stopped a show once, and it was not to stop a bootlegger. It was to stop a photographer that the stage management had failed to warn the cast about. It was a mistake on her part, but it was also a mistake that no one warned the actors there would be frequent flashes and camera noises going off. The other “incidents” are where she silently grabbed a bootleggers phone without stopping the show (it was returned after the show) and when she yelled at anti-maskers during a talkback *after* the show. Fine if you don’t like her, it just bugs me how people have the perception that she’s constantly stopping shows to yell at people.
Thank you, thank you. Everyone thinks she’s stopped multiple shows. I’ve had to set the record straight here a few times because people get the details wrong. She’s been on stage for 50 years and has stopped a single show, the context of which is important. She had been tolerating the photographer for the whole act, too, from my understanding, and finally had had it. She’s a professional in every sense of the word and has performed through all sorts of audiences. It was her penultimate Rose’s Turn. She should have been told about the photographer, and she apologized to her afterward.
I agree. I only liked her in Crazy ex Girlfriend.
Carrie Hope Fletcher. Can't act, can't dance and voice is very limited.
Yes, this. She has a very pretty voice but not much else going for her. And she doesn't seem to try very hard to improve either.
I don't even think her voice is that pretty tbh. She hasn't got enough sense of dynamics or expression to flavour the singing enough for musical theatre.
Yes, her inability to dance bugs me to no end. I feel like they had to alter the choreography in Addams Family because of her inability or lack of desire to even try dancing. Her acting is on par with the 12 year olds the cast on Disney Channel then promptly cancel their shows. So not good. Her voice is okay but I think she doesn't understand the type of voice she has and gets miscast easily because of her following.
He voice as definitely improved but Daphne Rubin Vega. Her voice, especially as Mimi, is grating to me
Was watching Hazbin Hotel last night, and at times her rock singing voice reaches the mark, but otherwise her voiceover is.. not inspired.
You need to listen to the NY Theater Workshop for Rent. I literally couldn’t believe it was her, she sounds completely different in tone. Personally I think smoking & bad technique did a number on her voice by the time the Broadway show came out. 🤷♀️
Seconding! I actually do the movie recordings instead cause I can't stand her voice for Mimi
I agree. I really never enjoyed her Mimi. But I've been surprised by how much I've enjoyed her in Hazbin Hotel. I feel she's come into her voice more as she's matured and it's a lot less grating.
There's a reason why I don't like listening to the OBC and almost exclusively listen to the movie soundtrack. Her voice is just... thin? Like it doesn't have any depth or emotion. Why they never released the 2008 version with Renee Elise Goldsberry on CD is beyond me.
Ugh I wish they would! I saw the 2008 version and it was awesome.
Reeve Carney. I've seen him as Orpheus three times. He still grates.
God, saying this feels so mean, but for the entire show it felt like he was doing his best to impersonate an anime voiceover actor for a teenage boy protagonist. It was the only thing I didn’t love about hadestown when I went to see it
That’s such an apt description. His portrayal of Orpheus read to me as very late 00’s hipster-inspired, which felt so cringey and dated in 2023. He didn’t seem young he just seemed weird and out of touch.
This!!! Awful. And Eva noblezada was singing circles around him the entire show.
I dont think this is unpopular at all. From what i've seen, most people aren't big fans of Reeve's Orpheus. Eva on the other hand was amazing and truly carried the show.
This is more casting and is not an original thought: They keep casting people too hunky to play Seymour in Little Shop of Horrors.
Ben Platt
Sutton Foster
I came here to say this. Sure, she can dance her ass off but so can a lot of people on Broadway. I find her voice incredibly grating and technically poor. Also I don't think she's that amazing of an actress.
I love her when she’s cast appropriately. Which seems to be less and less these days.
I almost bought the 2021 Music Man soundtrack with her and Hugh Jackman (my sister is a HUGE Hugh Jackman fan), but chose not to after I watched a couple of clips on Youtube. There's a specific kind of... I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's a tone of voice that some actors have that makes it obvious they're acting, and she has that in spades, *and it bugs me so much.*
I don't really like her voice
i knew i'm not the only one!
She was extremely miscast in The Music Man. That nasally drawl of hers was just not the right voice for the classic music of that show.
Going to get downvoted to hell for this but Sierra Boggess. Don't get me wrong, she's extremely talented and her voice is heavenly. But there's a weird trend of putting down every other actress who plays Christine because "Sierra is better." And it feels rather unfair particularly as Sierra herself goes around telling everyone that they are "enough" and trying to inspire people. And I've liked the other Christines I've heard for what it's worth🤷♀️
I apologize in advance. I know I’m going to annoy you here. I’ve never been a Phantom fan, and one reason of many is the dreadful “Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again.” Cloying, amateurish melody, stilted lyrics, nothing to act. I was invited to the 25th Anniversary performance on Broadway, and was prepared for the worst. I only had seen Boggess in The Little Mermaid. She reeled me in from the very moment she appeared on stage. She made the normally passive, damsel-in-distress role of Christine into something entirely new for me. Then came “Wishing…” Her voice was glorious, but it was her acting — she somehow made that horrible song work! She made it make sense even though it doesn’t. She made it make sense to HER and put that across the footlights. I’ll never forget it. Her Christine was the driving force behind that anniversary cast, and for me, much more compelling than the Phantom character.
Not annoyed at all! That's awesome thanks for sharing! She's an awesome actress and I'm glad you enjoyed the show.
I can’t stand her as Christine. Her voice is too shrill and nasally. She’s not believable as a top quality opera singer.
Only thing that bothers me about Boggess is that she has notably crispy Rs.
I only saw her in person once, and that was quite late in her career, but even listening to recordings of her in her prime I’ve just never understood the appeal of Carol Channing.
I must speak up about Miss Channing, as she was more talented than people grasped. The voice and affectation was something she developed for Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and pulled out throughout the years until it became her voice. In reality, she was not blonde nor squeaky until it became the way to succeed. Listen to her in Marc Blitzstein's No For An Answer or watch her do her expert impressions of Sophie Tucker, Carmen Miranda or older Marlene Dietrich and you see just what a talent she was. I saw her do Dolly in the 1970s, 80s and 90s and she got the same huge laughs and waves of love from the audience every time. I saw her one woman show in many locations, even outdoors at Epcot Center to a huge crowd and she wowed everyone. She also always made a point to never miss a performance... something nobody holds very important these days. Here's a video of her doing Dietrich and one of my favorite characters from her act, Miss C. S. : https://youtu.be/6TTQ0MGY_D4?si=IrxPticXSPGW49a-
Cool video. Thanks for the link. I think I understand your point. I’m not at all saying that she was untalented. Maybe what I’m trying to say is that by the time I was exposed to her she had morphed into the persona you describe so well above. Almost a parody of herself.
I'm sorry but I misread this comment as "I only saw her in prison" and I was like whoa...Carol Channing visited prisons?
Yes. She performed at Folsom with Johnny Cash. 😜
Sutton foster……sorry but I feel like her acting and portrayal doesn’t change much from role to role
Not really controversial, but Lea Michelle can just stop getting roles for the rest of her career and I'll be fine with that.
Darren Criss. He sounds fine when he's singing stuff he wrote, and I'm sure he's a pretty decent guy, but I could not stand him on Glee (especially because it basically became the Blaine show the second he got on) and I think pretty much every musical role he has played could and would have been (or has been) played better by others.
darren has a nice voice but he's talked about how he has a vocal defect which stops him fully closing the space between his chords & expanding his range/power, and i think that explains a lot. the problem is he keeps getting cast in roles which call for way more range than he has - he was such a bad fit for freddie in chess. i do think he has an incredible feel for musicality, though.
Darren does NOT have a broadway voice. Case closed. He knows it and has talked about it at length! Acting wise, he brings so much. And, yeah his musicality is out of this world.
Yeah, I think I might enjoy his performance in roles he is right for, but you hit the nail on the head that he keeps getting cast in roles that are out of his range. I really would like to see him in a strictly comedic role because I think he'd have fun with it, like Ogie in Waitress, but his fans would have an absolute conniption shit fit that he wasn't Pomatter.
Oh freddie was sure out of his range. But let's not forget he had 2 days to rehearse that one time role and was a better actor on this that almost all his cast mates
yeah that's fair enough! maybe it was unfair to pick freddie as the example & i know he was sick during the concert too, but i just thought it was a bafflingly bad casting choice. freddie is the ne plus ultra of high tenor roles & darren is the opposite of that. considering chess only ever gets staged in concert nowadays, i thought it did both the show & darren a disservice.
I loves him in Hedwig and I thought he was so cute in Glee. I saw him perform at Elsie Fest too and he was really great.
Idina Menzel. The first time I heard her voice I was....surprised lol. It sounded very, very grating to me. And I couldn't understand why people liked it.
Frances Ruffelle. I was genuinely shocked when I heard her in the OLC version of Les Mis from 1985, because it's the one time I've ever heard her *not* sing entirely through her nose. I legit have no idea what happened between being in the London cast and moving to Broadway. Her voice is so jarring that I still can't listen to the OBC version without cracking up at "every word that he says is a dagger in me" because of how jarring it is. You know immediately which of the "lovely ladies" she's playing in the 2012 version (the one who says "make money in your sleep") because no one else sings through her nose like that.
Sheridan smith!
i have an intense hatred of ben platt. i went to my local theater house and there was a guy who looked like him and i almost started throwing hands
rachel zegler. she gives me such rachel berry vibes and NOT in a good way. She’s good at singing but the way she acts and moves her mouth just….. really gets to me
Her voice is phenomenal but her acting in ballad of songbirds and snakes was honestly distracting, her style felt very theatrical and it didn't translate well on screen. That being said I loved her performance in west side story
also the way she moves her mouth reminds me of Keira Knightley lol
Ben Platt
Annaleigh Ashford. Every performance is just a manic-pixie-dream-girl with a slightly different accent.
[удалено]
I’m scared to admit this lol… Bernadette Peters I want to like her, I really do. There’s something about the sound of voice that annoys me. I don’t know what it is.
I thought it was a joke voice for the longest time.
Idina Menzel. Blech.
Amen. She started to ruin her voice with Rent and by the time Wicked came around…nope. The timbre of her voice grates me the wrong way. Cant do it.
Ellen Greene. Ppl say she’s their favorite Audrey, and that’s cool, but I, I just can’t hear it. I really don’t understand the hype around her Suddenly Seymour. Maybe she’s really good at acting tho. Jeremy Jordan. Don’t get me wrong, his voice is angelic, you might say, but other than that - I just don’t see the appeal. Loved him as Morningstar tho. Aaron Tveit. Y’know, his voice is also nice to listen to, but I don’t get why people love him so much. I just don’t get his utterly loyal fanbase.
I saw Ellen do that role live, and she was just so much more intense and wonderful than the film. She had to tone it way back. But she just smashed it.
Poor Jeremy is getting picked on today. 😂
Idina Menzel. She is not it for me. Like, don’t get me wrong — she is more talented than I will EVER be. But I just don’t like her voice.
In rent she was amazing. Maybe even in wicked when it first debuted. BUT now hearing other actresses play Elphaba she is by far the least actress I like in that role now
Hugh Jackman!! And, I'm sorry to say it, because I LOVE the West End, but Carrie Hope Fletcher. She's pretty unremarkable, and is West-End good but not good enough for Broadway. Very much a big fish in a small pond, is what it always feels like.
Do you think people on Broadway are better than those in the West End then? That’s certainly an opinion…
Ben Crawford.
idina menzel (im sorry pls don’t kill me) her voice is very bright? if thats the correct term? its just my preference j like the darker sounds in a voice
Colm Wilkinson. I am a Les Mis fan, a Phantom fan. He should have been the Bishop from the start so I’d only have to hear him sing the one song.