Not really though, he knows base ftg and he perfected it to the extent that he created a barrier jutsu with it, and made it cheaper.
But teleportation is teleportation
Besides, tobirama has the edo tensei and tandem paper bomb aswell as ftg slice
in theory he could use Minato as a price of edo tensei, because from Kabuto we saw that in order for one to activate edo he doesn't need to be touching body, just hand seals and that's it.
Don't think Tobi would ever do something like that but, he could use this as last resort
Yeah, similar to how Naruto could use invisible atack which could crash your brain, which was undetectable and no senor could feel it, not even Rinengan could see it yet Naruto used it once at that's it.
.plot
Plot is reason why Tobirama or Kabuto wouldn't use edo tensei that way, after all if you can sacrifice your opponents could for technique you are op, but author gets to big problem, because you are problem for story development.
Single Uzumaki could hold down Kyuubi, if there was at least 5 or 10 Uzumaki they would be able to hold down juubi, which was controlled by Madara and obito so that thing isn't exactly omnipotental, but it would create problem. Hell Naruto having Kushina's Chakra chains was possible, but it would create to much trouble.
Minato with good enough control could teleport kunai in someone's head bit that would not be good for story if he killed Madara by teleporting Kunai in his head. ,now would it be?
Or he could do it to Obito who was still marked by him. But no he didn't used it.
Plot plot plot, only reason why abilities aren't utilize fully.
Plot is not the only reason edo tensei couldn't be used in a live battle realistically.
Go back to the part where Kabuto demonstrates how to use it to Obito.
You need the dead body of the soon-to-be-reanimated person and the human sacrifice next to eachother.
Next, you need a scroll with the edo tensei formula which will encircle both the dead body and the human sacrifice.
And now tell me how Tobirama would be able to pull that shit off against Minato.
Okay this one makes some sense. Now second question, why not teleport object inside of persons body?
And before you mention Chakra let me remind you that energy called Nature energy is all around Minato plus air as well yet he still can teleport meaning that teleportation doesn't care if object A teleports at the place in which another object (Nature Energy and air) exist, meaning that Minato could kill Obito at any second yet he didn't done it. So why?
On that you mentioned enother reason could be that Tobirama just isn't good enough to pull it of (same goes to Kabuto) because of we look at this case, it is clear that object A(edo) doesn't need to be connected to Object B (sacrifice) in order for it to work, enother thing is that Tobirama doesn't need resurrection to be anywhere perfect , all he needs is for his opponents soult to become sacrifice, meaning that weakest of edo would be enough, in Naruto world we know that Chakra can create connections and that both Minato and Tobirama can teleport any object as long as object or subject has their Chakra or can be sensed by them, as such said link can be created via modified genjutsu which last few seconds and links object B to Object A and turns object into sacrifice, meaning that Tobirama still could have done this type of move and sacrificed Minato, but neither him or Kabuto put much thought into this idea.
>Minato with good enough control could teleport kunai in someone's head bit that would not be good for story if he killed Madara by teleporting Kunai in his head. ,now would it be?
The thing is, he has that level of control but as always, PLOT.
THATS WHAT I AM SAYING
Kishimoto created one of the most op power system, but he put humans as main characters, so he constantly had to make sure that techniques wouldn't be used.
Hand seals are not the only thing needed for edo tensei.
Go back to the part where Kabuto demonstrates how to use it to Obito.
You need the dead body of the soon-to-be-reanimated person and the human sacrifice next to eachother.
Next, you need a scroll with the edo tensei formula which will encircle both the dead body and the human sacrifice.
And then hand seals.
And now tell me how Tobirama would be able to pull that shit off against Minato.
Yup his Edo’s would be like Orochimaru vs 3rd
Barely people and more like mindless puppets with a small amount of consciousness and their old power
He didn’t even use them in the war and stated it was stated Orochimaru improved upon his jutsu (because of the Zetsu bodies)
There is still a speed difference between teleportations because of reaction speed.
When minato escapes kamui, obito says "he was really fast. I'll absorb him before he can teleport next time".
During war arc tobirama said "ftg with clones is too slow. Let's use our real bodies" to minato.
So "teleportation is teleportation" is false. One can be superior to the other. Even just runnin would take them around 0,1 seconds anyway. So activating teleportation earlier would make a huge difference.
but minato has sage mode and rasengan also as other said are we giving tobirama the prep time to do edo tensei? also he probably has the unimproved version which even old hiruzen was able to deal with.
Minato has sage mode, which gives him a massive boost in senses/reaction time than he already has (since he's insanely adept with flying raijin), a massive strength boost, and sensory ability, on top of everything he already knows. Tobirama really is not on par, unless he had a bunch of sacrifices prepared, he isn't remotely as adept with the application of teleportation as Minato is, he wouldn't be able to keep up.
Assuming this debate is between alive versions, the only thing Tobirama has over Minato is physical strength and chakra reserve. In everything else Minato has the advantage
Minato's chakra reserves are higher than the average jonin's. But Tobirama's chakra reserves are even more higher than that because he is a senju and has much more battle experience than Minato. But Minato would still beat Tobirama (high diff)
>Tobirama has over Minato is physical strength and chakra reserve
Why physical strength? Both don't have major feats there but Minato can at least briefly juice up with SM.
Chakra reserve is also debatable. Tobirama does have the senju advantage but Minato had enormous chakra in his own right(required to use SM). Personally I see it as, there are hundreds of senju but only 7 known SM users so it's a higher bar.
> Everything else Minato has the advantage
Idk edo tensei can be a pretty big advantage if you give him prep
i mean none of them were helping him do it they were just doing a combo attack on madara. which if anything it shows that hes more confident in his sage mode than he lets on because he pulls it out while having to coordinate with others.
You barely saw alive Minato fight, how would you know, even in Edo version Tobirama just showed better feats than Minato and Minato was buffed with KCM2
Minato is a total jobber though he shits the bed at every opportunity we’ve never seen him not fuck up. Tobirama also has edo tensei so it’s not even a fair comparison. Minato is the weakest of the first 4 hokages.
Nah, I think it's probably Hiruzen. Not that he isn't strong himself...but between the 3 powerhouses that make up the other Hokage...Hiruzen doesnt have a great chance of winning. Yeah, he held his own against two edo tensei Hokage...but Edo tensei are not full power, and a live Tobirama could probably beat Hiruzen, let alone Hashirama. Minato, I can't say for sure...but it's likely he could pull a win if it's between him and Prime Hiruzen, he probably could lose against the current Hiruzen due to experience though. Once again, this is all speculative...it would be cool to have a definitive answer though.
*Edit*-Tensei
It was stated that hiruzen surpassed tobirama during his prime. That’s why he’s called the god of shinobi. He just gets a lot of flack because we don’t have any big feats to compare him to the others and the only screen time we see is of him is as an old man.
Surpassed can be used in a lot of ways, doesn't have to mean strength particularly. Hiruzen surpassed every kage in terms of sheer Knowledge and JUTSU in his repertoire
*Edit as my phone sucks with autocorrect*- Kage
From what I understand: Tobirama is the man that invented Chess but Minato is the worldwide grand master. I'm not trying to sell Tobirama short here. He's a genius and he's responsible for (nearly) all of the most powerful jutsu we see in the show, but other characters perfected those jutsu.
Kind'a like how Isaac Newton figured out gravity but other people later down the road invented ways to use those equations to fly airplanes. Isaac Newton is not lesser because he didn't take his equations to their extremes. This is a literal "Tobirama walked so Minato could run."
Yeah, but the thing is that Tobirama himself is Grad master as well, and we have seen how he is still faster than Minato,
I also think that this question would never truly be fair, because Tobirama died nearly 50 years before Minato even was born and Tobirama lived for few years more than Minato.
P.s. downwoting me is pointless, just write your idea and les have actual discussion.
Tobirama *might be* faster then Minato. Tobirama had that moment where he reacted to Madara's true body when Madara's shadow clone blitzed the tailed beasts, but also Minato had the moment when he teleported in front of Might Guy, caught 5 truth seeking orbs, and then teleported away before Might Guy moved.
I personally would give the edge to Minato in terms of speed there, Yes, Madara said that Tobirama was slowed down because of Edo Tensei so he should have been faster when he was alive, but the same could be said about Minato, and (I believe) it was also stated that he was moving slower thanks to Kyubi Chakra Mode.
Again, I'm not trying to downplay Tobirama. I could see either side of the argument and find it reasonable to claim Tobirama is faster then Minato or vice-versa. I just consider Minato's speed feat to be more impressive.
You know what?
I don't care which is stronger, this two as tag team is one of my favorite.
Both have similar style and both love creating techniques, if they were born in same generation they would be rivals and friends, as for scaling we can't really do much because we don't have good enough data, because Tobirama was Edo tensei, and Minato's none edo tensei screen time isn't enough to put him above Tobirama, while in edo he is amplified by Kurama. At same time Tobirama is like 50 years old? Then he was resurrected.
Yea I think that Tobirama is very enigmatic in terms of how strong/fast he is. Even in edo, he just didn't have a lot of screen time for us to really get a beat on how powerful he really was.
Because Tobirama was from waring clans century in which villages were burn on regular bases and nearly every clan fought against each other?
Mf considered as file on sight by some IWA fussiest means Nothing at all, Tobirama was fucking devil of his time, this man created edo tensei a technique which most definitely require many lives for it to even be created, and even more for it to be used.
This person has senju body, a superior reserves, superior stamina and better senory abilities, he have trained with Hashirama and fought against many Uchiha, his stile is pretty much created to counter fast people and he was even able to react to Juubito were he sent TSO back at him before Minato could even realize what was happening and Minato at that time was juiced up with KCM, base Minato would be walking fodder compared to Tobirama of the Senju clan.
Minato’s techniques are more polished but I don’t think he can make up the difference in chakra levels. Since they use a lot of the same techniques Tobirama is unlikely to be taken by surprise. If it is a drawn out battle I think Tobirama takes the W.
Other side of the table is a tobitard sitting on Tobirama's lap
And wow, it's refreshing to see a sane community for once. If this were somewhere else the comments would be full of people saying he's juubito level
"He invented over 3000 jutsu, you don't know his entire arsenal"
In fact one chap even claimed he has SM, we just haven't seen it. His reasoning for that? Tobirama is smarter than hashirama and he had SM so....
"Remember when you were making out with Kushina and you came right as she touched your leg? It was me, Minato. I jerked you off at super speed so it seemed like you nutted at just a woman’s touch!" - Tobirama
This is a far closer matchup than people think
Both aren't just super OP ninjas, they are super similar ninjas too
Alive Tobirama vs Alive Minato (No SM because SM Minato is clearly stronger than Tobirama)
Tobirama likely takes strength. Though this is close and neither have many strength feats, Tobirama is bigger than Minato
Speed goes to Minato. Physical speed or teleport speed, Minato is far faster. He managed to travel to the ocean, plant a kunai there, come back to the battlefield, have a 15 second chat with Naruto and Sakura and it was only after that that the other Hokage arrived on the battlefield, that's how fast Minato is.
Durability easily goes to Tobirama. He's a Senju and Senju have crazy durability
Chakra is yet again, very close. Tobirama is a Senju and Senju have massive chakra reserves on an average and Tobirama had especially large chakra reserves even among the Senju. Meanwhile Minato managed to master sage mode which requires a massive amount of chakra and he managed to gain access to Kurama's full chakra which also requires a LOT of Chakra. Again it can go either way but considering that Minato can literally spam Hiraishin and Rasengan like it's a joke, I would give chakra to Minato. A single use of Hiraishin requires 3 Elite jonin to pool their chakra together and Minato could use that technique hundreds of times without showing any sign of chakra drainage.
Endurance and Stamina again, most likely goes to Tobirama. Though Minato can also fight for a long time without any fatigue, We know for a fact that Tobirama has insane endurance and Stamina due to being a Senju.
Tobirama easily has FAR more Jutsu, just having all 5 chakra natures gives him a big advantage.
They also have a very similar amount of firepower, Minato's Rasengan was stated to be able to destroy entire mountains when unleashed full power.
And Tobirama can literally pull out a dragon made of water and has tandem explosive tags which explode endlessly. I don't have a clear answer for this one but i'mma go with Minato.
Both are Geniuses but Tobirama has much more knowledge on Jutsu.
Both are academic and intellectual geniuses. Tobirama created a LOT of the systems that the village uses and Minato has, to this day, the highest score in the academy exams. But I'm giving this to Tobirama.
Minato IMO has better battle intelligence. He showed this against Obito during the NINE tails attack and during the war too.
The score so far, Tobirama -5 Minato-4.
When either of these two get a point, it's by a small margin. This fight may even result in a tie or mutual kill.
And no, I didn't type this whole thing all over again, I copy pasted it from earlier.
Not to sound mean but your just making up numbers at this point. Senju and know for these high chakra COMPARED to every one else. now in this 1v1 people start talking bout minatos chakra levels. like if saying other strong people have more chakra then senju, then just burn it all down then. Senju's have weak chakra levels, Uchiha have weak eyes. Sometimes i hate reading these 1v1 between characters because people start pulling crap out there ass to justify something is person over someone else, not using the manga for a base
Senju aren't known for just high chakra levels
They are known as the clan of a thousand skills because they are talented and proficient with everything
Every prominent Senju knows all 5 chakra natures and has mastery over Taijutsu along with proficiency in Genjutsu, kenjutsu and Fuinjutsu.
The Uzumaki are the clan known for insane Chakra reserves and near immortal life force.
Yeah. It was a group but how do you get killed by anyone when you have FTG? Anytime you don’t get OHK you can teleport anywhere you’ve placed a seal prior. The way every strong character in Naruto dies is disrespectful but he made Tobirama look weak.
I really like Tobirama. Wish he had more time in the limelight and a proper send off
As soon as he gets wounded by one person he could teleport back to Konoha. That he got killed off screen I believe is the most disrespectful part by a group that shouldn’t be able to touch him is a low blow laid on top. I think the only way that fight makes sense is Tobirama is depleted of chakra to the point he can’t defend or escape and he couldn’t last long enough for his team to make it to safety. If that’s the case I think that adds to the difference in power with Minato because Minato’s chakra reserves have been shown to be some of the highest in the show (which might be on accident on the writer’s part but is canon).
Tbf the Uzumaki lineage has mastered Tobiramas Jutsus more efficiently than he ever could, Minato has better FTG, Chakra Control, and Rasengan...Not to mention the RDS as a last resort would end up in a draw...Hiruzen took both Hashi and Tobi with Oro arms at his age....also if this is an FP comparison Jin Cloak 2 SM Minato is the strongest kage version outside of Baryon Mode Naruto, DMS Kakashi and Hashirama who are SS Ranks even in current powerscaling of boruto....and yep giving the benefit of doubt to prime hiruzen but Idt he got anything more substantial than enma against the above 3....so thats a stupid take with no substance to back it up...
I was talking about the grandfather, father son trio of Minato, Naruto and Boruto and how they are better...so referred to them with uzumakis as a whole...
To be honest then Hiruzen fought against Hashirama and Tobirama. Kishimoto wanted to create the idea that every new generation kage was stronger than previous, hence why 3rd could beat weakened 1st and 2nd.
But toward Shipuden he changed his mind and we got Hashirama's lore, which Madd it clear that no kage (Minus Naruto) was even close to his power. He was shodai, the strongest shinobi of the world for nearly whole century.
Explain please. I’m open to hear you out. My argument is minato teleport about 5 times, teleported a kyubbi bomb from kurama, fought obito and rasengan, and still could seal halve of kurama. He ran faster than tobirama and beside infinity revival paper bomb nothing hit harder than a rasengan. Also minato is a sealing jutsu master where I don’t think he use another offensive jutsu beside rasengan. Either you die or get seal. Now this is my argument and what can tobirama do? I’m not saying he is weak since he took on 9 tail cloak guys and battle the uchiha daily but nothing he did minato just do better.
Tobirama himself is sealing master as well this mfs created jutsu which was used by Minato.
Tobirama actually had chanse to fight against other sealing masters (Hashirama and Uzumaki) and had far better reaction time than Minato.
I think that Tobirama would be proud if Minato won, because it would mean that Konoha had bright future, but dunno I will still chose Senju.
With kcm hell no not even and if it's alive tobirama he literally just can't not only is kcm minato just better at all the things that I think tobirama is better at chakra reserves and strength minato got all that now and if he was edo he most likely would still lose
Tobirama is better at some things. But minato is better at what truly matters in their fighting style.
Even just rasengan alone could decide who wins this. Databooks say minato didnt like hand seal jutsus because they waste time. Rasengan doesnt require handseals. Minato perfected that teleport>hit fast>mark enemy fighting style.
How does tobirama beat him? Minato is better at flying raijin, has knowledge of uzumaki sealing techniques, is fast asf. He basically perfected what tobirama made. Tobirama has edo tensei ig, but that requires a sacrifice
if we are taking both characters at their strongest tobirama is getting folded by KCM minato. if we are leaving that out its closes but a lot of minato's techniques is tobirama's but stronger. also minato has sage mode so i sort of disagree with the people saying tobirama will win on chakra reserves so i think minato is still winning.
Minato wankers highlight the Obito fight nonstop when the later was just an inexperienced angsty teen. And young Bee could also offed Minato even it it was a mutual death.
Yeah, he sealed Kurama, at the cost of both his and Kushina's lives. Big win.
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Yes yes the typical “flea on site” argument, then you’ll comment on how quickly he figured out Obtio’s thing as if dozens of other characters didn’t also figure it out quickly, Minato’s fans are too predictable
A lot of other characters also got “flee on sight” order, Shisui and Fugaku were one of them, and I’m sure many other characters would’ve also gotten that if they participated in the wars.
As for the Obito thing, Sakura also figured it out when Obito was still Tobi, and Danzo assistants also figured it out, and Konan. He did nothing special
Minato has every bijuu, he created every jutsu, he birthed naruto himself and let kushina take the credit cause he's a nice guy, kaguya was his side piece, he walks madara on a leash. Hmm what else should i add?
What are you smoking bro?
(That would be fun to, see alive Minato who stole every Biju and is now walking around in his office because nobody has balls to fight against someone who has 9 biju in his belly)
Minato does everything better
Not really though, he knows base ftg and he perfected it to the extent that he created a barrier jutsu with it, and made it cheaper. But teleportation is teleportation Besides, tobirama has the edo tensei and tandem paper bomb aswell as ftg slice
Wait , so we’re comparing edo tobirama to alive minato?
No, he means that tobirama created edo tensei and knows how to use it
Does he have a human sacrifice? Because most vs battles don't include that
in theory he could use Minato as a price of edo tensei, because from Kabuto we saw that in order for one to activate edo he doesn't need to be touching body, just hand seals and that's it. Don't think Tobi would ever do something like that but, he could use this as last resort
If that were the case it would have been used offensively. No?
Yeah, similar to how Naruto could use invisible atack which could crash your brain, which was undetectable and no senor could feel it, not even Rinengan could see it yet Naruto used it once at that's it. .plot Plot is reason why Tobirama or Kabuto wouldn't use edo tensei that way, after all if you can sacrifice your opponents could for technique you are op, but author gets to big problem, because you are problem for story development. Single Uzumaki could hold down Kyuubi, if there was at least 5 or 10 Uzumaki they would be able to hold down juubi, which was controlled by Madara and obito so that thing isn't exactly omnipotental, but it would create problem. Hell Naruto having Kushina's Chakra chains was possible, but it would create to much trouble. Minato with good enough control could teleport kunai in someone's head bit that would not be good for story if he killed Madara by teleporting Kunai in his head. ,now would it be? Or he could do it to Obito who was still marked by him. But no he didn't used it. Plot plot plot, only reason why abilities aren't utilize fully.
Plot is not the only reason edo tensei couldn't be used in a live battle realistically. Go back to the part where Kabuto demonstrates how to use it to Obito. You need the dead body of the soon-to-be-reanimated person and the human sacrifice next to eachother. Next, you need a scroll with the edo tensei formula which will encircle both the dead body and the human sacrifice. And now tell me how Tobirama would be able to pull that shit off against Minato.
Okay this one makes some sense. Now second question, why not teleport object inside of persons body? And before you mention Chakra let me remind you that energy called Nature energy is all around Minato plus air as well yet he still can teleport meaning that teleportation doesn't care if object A teleports at the place in which another object (Nature Energy and air) exist, meaning that Minato could kill Obito at any second yet he didn't done it. So why?
On that you mentioned enother reason could be that Tobirama just isn't good enough to pull it of (same goes to Kabuto) because of we look at this case, it is clear that object A(edo) doesn't need to be connected to Object B (sacrifice) in order for it to work, enother thing is that Tobirama doesn't need resurrection to be anywhere perfect , all he needs is for his opponents soult to become sacrifice, meaning that weakest of edo would be enough, in Naruto world we know that Chakra can create connections and that both Minato and Tobirama can teleport any object as long as object or subject has their Chakra or can be sensed by them, as such said link can be created via modified genjutsu which last few seconds and links object B to Object A and turns object into sacrifice, meaning that Tobirama still could have done this type of move and sacrificed Minato, but neither him or Kabuto put much thought into this idea.
>Minato with good enough control could teleport kunai in someone's head bit that would not be good for story if he killed Madara by teleporting Kunai in his head. ,now would it be? The thing is, he has that level of control but as always, PLOT.
THATS WHAT I AM SAYING Kishimoto created one of the most op power system, but he put humans as main characters, so he constantly had to make sure that techniques wouldn't be used.
Hand seals are not the only thing needed for edo tensei. Go back to the part where Kabuto demonstrates how to use it to Obito. You need the dead body of the soon-to-be-reanimated person and the human sacrifice next to eachother. Next, you need a scroll with the edo tensei formula which will encircle both the dead body and the human sacrifice. And then hand seals. And now tell me how Tobirama would be able to pull that shit off against Minato.
Tobirama's Edo wasn't perfect. Those Edos had like 20% power of their real counterparts.
Yup his Edo’s would be like Orochimaru vs 3rd Barely people and more like mindless puppets with a small amount of consciousness and their old power He didn’t even use them in the war and stated it was stated Orochimaru improved upon his jutsu (because of the Zetsu bodies)
KCM Minato vs 80% Tobirama Tobi gets rolled
There is still a speed difference between teleportations because of reaction speed. When minato escapes kamui, obito says "he was really fast. I'll absorb him before he can teleport next time". During war arc tobirama said "ftg with clones is too slow. Let's use our real bodies" to minato. So "teleportation is teleportation" is false. One can be superior to the other. Even just runnin would take them around 0,1 seconds anyway. So activating teleportation earlier would make a huge difference.
but minato has sage mode and rasengan also as other said are we giving tobirama the prep time to do edo tensei? also he probably has the unimproved version which even old hiruzen was able to deal with.
Minato has sage mode, which gives him a massive boost in senses/reaction time than he already has (since he's insanely adept with flying raijin), a massive strength boost, and sensory ability, on top of everything he already knows. Tobirama really is not on par, unless he had a bunch of sacrifices prepared, he isn't remotely as adept with the application of teleportation as Minato is, he wouldn't be able to keep up.
Assuming this debate is between alive versions, the only thing Tobirama has over Minato is physical strength and chakra reserve. In everything else Minato has the advantage
Wouldn’t his chakra traverse be crazy too since he’s able to use uzumaki sealing jutsu?
Minato's chakra reserves are higher than the average jonin's. But Tobirama's chakra reserves are even more higher than that because he is a senju and has much more battle experience than Minato. But Minato would still beat Tobirama (high diff)
>Tobirama has over Minato is physical strength and chakra reserve Why physical strength? Both don't have major feats there but Minato can at least briefly juice up with SM. Chakra reserve is also debatable. Tobirama does have the senju advantage but Minato had enormous chakra in his own right(required to use SM). Personally I see it as, there are hundreds of senju but only 7 known SM users so it's a higher bar. > Everything else Minato has the advantage Idk edo tensei can be a pretty big advantage if you give him prep
Oh shit. If Lord First is dead this might be a wrap.
Edo Minato has KCM
>>Assuming this debate is between alive versions .
with sage mode minato would probably at least match if not exceed his strength and chakra reserve
https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png He’s never used sage mode in combat from what we see lmao
I mean he says that but then he goes into sage mode no problem when attacking madara
No he doesn’t he never uses it, link your proof
[https://imgur.com/a/PvweOcM](https://imgur.com/a/PvweOcM)
My bad, it still looks like he needs a team just to use it
i mean none of them were helping him do it they were just doing a combo attack on madara. which if anything it shows that hes more confident in his sage mode than he lets on because he pulls it out while having to coordinate with others.
Minato has the strength boost from sage mode too, I doubt Tobirama could lift one of those giant petrified frogs.
You barely saw alive Minato fight, how would you know, even in Edo version Tobirama just showed better feats than Minato and Minato was buffed with KCM2
I feel we're forgetting about Minato being extremely mentally nerfed while he was in KCM2
We saw more alive Minato than Tobirama so you just disproved your own argument
Edo Tobirama is relative to alive Tobirama, and Minato was buffed with KCM2 so he was waay more powerful than when he was alive
Minato does way more as an edo
He literally teleported 10 Tails' tailed beast bomb the size of a stadium.
Minato is a total jobber though he shits the bed at every opportunity we’ve never seen him not fuck up. Tobirama also has edo tensei so it’s not even a fair comparison. Minato is the weakest of the first 4 hokages.
Tobirama's power move is begging his big bro to jump in.
Nah, I think it's probably Hiruzen. Not that he isn't strong himself...but between the 3 powerhouses that make up the other Hokage...Hiruzen doesnt have a great chance of winning. Yeah, he held his own against two edo tensei Hokage...but Edo tensei are not full power, and a live Tobirama could probably beat Hiruzen, let alone Hashirama. Minato, I can't say for sure...but it's likely he could pull a win if it's between him and Prime Hiruzen, he probably could lose against the current Hiruzen due to experience though. Once again, this is all speculative...it would be cool to have a definitive answer though. *Edit*-Tensei
It was stated that hiruzen surpassed tobirama during his prime. That’s why he’s called the god of shinobi. He just gets a lot of flack because we don’t have any big feats to compare him to the others and the only screen time we see is of him is as an old man.
Surpassed can be used in a lot of ways, doesn't have to mean strength particularly. Hiruzen surpassed every kage in terms of sheer Knowledge and JUTSU in his repertoire *Edit as my phone sucks with autocorrect*- Kage
Prove this
Tell Tobirama that Minato will father a child that saves an Uchiha. Watch him override this cannon event.
Ops about to be fodder for narutopowerscaling
From what I understand: Tobirama is the man that invented Chess but Minato is the worldwide grand master. I'm not trying to sell Tobirama short here. He's a genius and he's responsible for (nearly) all of the most powerful jutsu we see in the show, but other characters perfected those jutsu. Kind'a like how Isaac Newton figured out gravity but other people later down the road invented ways to use those equations to fly airplanes. Isaac Newton is not lesser because he didn't take his equations to their extremes. This is a literal "Tobirama walked so Minato could run."
Yeah, but the thing is that Tobirama himself is Grad master as well, and we have seen how he is still faster than Minato, I also think that this question would never truly be fair, because Tobirama died nearly 50 years before Minato even was born and Tobirama lived for few years more than Minato. P.s. downwoting me is pointless, just write your idea and les have actual discussion.
Tobirama *might be* faster then Minato. Tobirama had that moment where he reacted to Madara's true body when Madara's shadow clone blitzed the tailed beasts, but also Minato had the moment when he teleported in front of Might Guy, caught 5 truth seeking orbs, and then teleported away before Might Guy moved. I personally would give the edge to Minato in terms of speed there, Yes, Madara said that Tobirama was slowed down because of Edo Tensei so he should have been faster when he was alive, but the same could be said about Minato, and (I believe) it was also stated that he was moving slower thanks to Kyubi Chakra Mode. Again, I'm not trying to downplay Tobirama. I could see either side of the argument and find it reasonable to claim Tobirama is faster then Minato or vice-versa. I just consider Minato's speed feat to be more impressive.
You know what? I don't care which is stronger, this two as tag team is one of my favorite. Both have similar style and both love creating techniques, if they were born in same generation they would be rivals and friends, as for scaling we can't really do much because we don't have good enough data, because Tobirama was Edo tensei, and Minato's none edo tensei screen time isn't enough to put him above Tobirama, while in edo he is amplified by Kurama. At same time Tobirama is like 50 years old? Then he was resurrected.
Yea I think that Tobirama is very enigmatic in terms of how strong/fast he is. Even in edo, he just didn't have a lot of screen time for us to really get a beat on how powerful he really was.
Tobirama himself said minato is faster.
Give me the argument.
There is absolutely nothing shown that makes me think tobirama could beat minato while they lived
Why was tobi not as feared as "flee on sight" Minato
Probably got overshadowed by hashirama and madara, but he’s not beating minato shit I’m pretty sure prime hiruzen whoops him
Iirc it was said that young Hiruzen had long surpassed Tobirama
Hiruzen is all propaganda bro
He surpassed him in being a deadbeat
Maybe in the Uchiha death count (under his hokage term)
Because Tobirama was from waring clans century in which villages were burn on regular bases and nearly every clan fought against each other? Mf considered as file on sight by some IWA fussiest means Nothing at all, Tobirama was fucking devil of his time, this man created edo tensei a technique which most definitely require many lives for it to even be created, and even more for it to be used. This person has senju body, a superior reserves, superior stamina and better senory abilities, he have trained with Hashirama and fought against many Uchiha, his stile is pretty much created to counter fast people and he was even able to react to Juubito were he sent TSO back at him before Minato could even realize what was happening and Minato at that time was juiced up with KCM, base Minato would be walking fodder compared to Tobirama of the Senju clan.
Why was Hashirama not as feared as "flee on sight" Minato?
"The Ultimate Shinobi", aka the founding shadow absolutely was "flee on sight".
There was no reason for that label. People just routinely did exactly that.
He doesn't?
I personally thinks he doesn't but I just wanted to see how pissed everyone would be
Minato’s techniques are more polished but I don’t think he can make up the difference in chakra levels. Since they use a lot of the same techniques Tobirama is unlikely to be taken by surprise. If it is a drawn out battle I think Tobirama takes the W.
This is secret but I actually believe this I'm just lying to save my karma level
Other side of the table is a tobitard sitting on Tobirama's lap And wow, it's refreshing to see a sane community for once. If this were somewhere else the comments would be full of people saying he's juubito level
Let's not forget madara wankers though
I'll take madara being wanked to hashi level than tobirama being wanked to hashi level, any day of the week
I fully agree tobirama is 100% not madara or hashirama level it isn't a contest plus isn't madara sub hashirama level anyway?
Base Madara is sub hashi yea
I like Tobirama more than Minato, but I am not delulu enough to think that Tobirama has chanse to do ANYTHING against Juubito on 1vs 1 fight.
BuT hE bLiTzEd HiM
Blitz Juubito all you want, Tobirama just doesn't have technique to deal with him.
"He invented over 3000 jutsu, you don't know his entire arsenal" In fact one chap even claimed he has SM, we just haven't seen it. His reasoning for that? Tobirama is smarter than hashirama and he had SM so....
Rage bait post OP
"Remember when you were making out with Kushina and you came right as she touched your leg? It was me, Minato. I jerked you off at super speed so it seemed like you nutted at just a woman’s touch!" - Tobirama
This is a far closer matchup than people think Both aren't just super OP ninjas, they are super similar ninjas too Alive Tobirama vs Alive Minato (No SM because SM Minato is clearly stronger than Tobirama) Tobirama likely takes strength. Though this is close and neither have many strength feats, Tobirama is bigger than Minato Speed goes to Minato. Physical speed or teleport speed, Minato is far faster. He managed to travel to the ocean, plant a kunai there, come back to the battlefield, have a 15 second chat with Naruto and Sakura and it was only after that that the other Hokage arrived on the battlefield, that's how fast Minato is. Durability easily goes to Tobirama. He's a Senju and Senju have crazy durability Chakra is yet again, very close. Tobirama is a Senju and Senju have massive chakra reserves on an average and Tobirama had especially large chakra reserves even among the Senju. Meanwhile Minato managed to master sage mode which requires a massive amount of chakra and he managed to gain access to Kurama's full chakra which also requires a LOT of Chakra. Again it can go either way but considering that Minato can literally spam Hiraishin and Rasengan like it's a joke, I would give chakra to Minato. A single use of Hiraishin requires 3 Elite jonin to pool their chakra together and Minato could use that technique hundreds of times without showing any sign of chakra drainage. Endurance and Stamina again, most likely goes to Tobirama. Though Minato can also fight for a long time without any fatigue, We know for a fact that Tobirama has insane endurance and Stamina due to being a Senju. Tobirama easily has FAR more Jutsu, just having all 5 chakra natures gives him a big advantage. They also have a very similar amount of firepower, Minato's Rasengan was stated to be able to destroy entire mountains when unleashed full power. And Tobirama can literally pull out a dragon made of water and has tandem explosive tags which explode endlessly. I don't have a clear answer for this one but i'mma go with Minato. Both are Geniuses but Tobirama has much more knowledge on Jutsu. Both are academic and intellectual geniuses. Tobirama created a LOT of the systems that the village uses and Minato has, to this day, the highest score in the academy exams. But I'm giving this to Tobirama. Minato IMO has better battle intelligence. He showed this against Obito during the NINE tails attack and during the war too. The score so far, Tobirama -5 Minato-4. When either of these two get a point, it's by a small margin. This fight may even result in a tie or mutual kill. And no, I didn't type this whole thing all over again, I copy pasted it from earlier.
he never travel to the ocean...his marks NEVER disappear so he just TP to his mark near the ocean
Even if we remove that part. Base Minato is still 15-30 seconds faster than the other Hokage
Not to sound mean but your just making up numbers at this point. Senju and know for these high chakra COMPARED to every one else. now in this 1v1 people start talking bout minatos chakra levels. like if saying other strong people have more chakra then senju, then just burn it all down then. Senju's have weak chakra levels, Uchiha have weak eyes. Sometimes i hate reading these 1v1 between characters because people start pulling crap out there ass to justify something is person over someone else, not using the manga for a base
Senju aren't known for just high chakra levels They are known as the clan of a thousand skills because they are talented and proficient with everything Every prominent Senju knows all 5 chakra natures and has mastery over Taijutsu along with proficiency in Genjutsu, kenjutsu and Fuinjutsu. The Uzumaki are the clan known for insane Chakra reserves and near immortal life force.
Didn’t tobirama die to the autistic brothers eating nine tails 😂😂
It's crazy how there is people who actually think Tobirama beats Minato. Minato fucking STOOOMPS dude.
Didn’t the gold and silver bros kill Tobirama? That shits embarrassing
Wasn't there way more other guys with em
Yeah. It was a group but how do you get killed by anyone when you have FTG? Anytime you don’t get OHK you can teleport anywhere you’ve placed a seal prior. The way every strong character in Naruto dies is disrespectful but he made Tobirama look weak. I really like Tobirama. Wish he had more time in the limelight and a proper send off
Tbh getting killed while getting jumped isn't really disrespectful not much people can really survive that and I also wish he went out differently
As soon as he gets wounded by one person he could teleport back to Konoha. That he got killed off screen I believe is the most disrespectful part by a group that shouldn’t be able to touch him is a low blow laid on top. I think the only way that fight makes sense is Tobirama is depleted of chakra to the point he can’t defend or escape and he couldn’t last long enough for his team to make it to safety. If that’s the case I think that adds to the difference in power with Minato because Minato’s chakra reserves have been shown to be some of the highest in the show (which might be on accident on the writer’s part but is canon).
Well I forgot the circumstances but you do have a point
Hiruzen wasn't afraid to fight tobirama. He wanted NOTHING to do with Minato
Tbf the Uzumaki lineage has mastered Tobiramas Jutsus more efficiently than he ever could, Minato has better FTG, Chakra Control, and Rasengan...Not to mention the RDS as a last resort would end up in a draw...Hiruzen took both Hashi and Tobi with Oro arms at his age....also if this is an FP comparison Jin Cloak 2 SM Minato is the strongest kage version outside of Baryon Mode Naruto, DMS Kakashi and Hashirama who are SS Ranks even in current powerscaling of boruto....and yep giving the benefit of doubt to prime hiruzen but Idt he got anything more substantial than enma against the above 3....so thats a stupid take with no substance to back it up...
Minato is not an uzumaki, but your still right about his efficiency with the jutsu he uses
I was talking about the grandfather, father son trio of Minato, Naruto and Boruto and how they are better...so referred to them with uzumakis as a whole...
To be honest then Hiruzen fought against Hashirama and Tobirama. Kishimoto wanted to create the idea that every new generation kage was stronger than previous, hence why 3rd could beat weakened 1st and 2nd. But toward Shipuden he changed his mind and we got Hashirama's lore, which Madd it clear that no kage (Minus Naruto) was even close to his power. He was shodai, the strongest shinobi of the world for nearly whole century.
The Edo 1st and 2nd hiruzen fight have probably 1/10 of their power
Idk how this fight is so controversial but I'm still getting upvotes
Because it’s a shitpost
Fax
Explain please. I’m open to hear you out. My argument is minato teleport about 5 times, teleported a kyubbi bomb from kurama, fought obito and rasengan, and still could seal halve of kurama. He ran faster than tobirama and beside infinity revival paper bomb nothing hit harder than a rasengan. Also minato is a sealing jutsu master where I don’t think he use another offensive jutsu beside rasengan. Either you die or get seal. Now this is my argument and what can tobirama do? I’m not saying he is weak since he took on 9 tail cloak guys and battle the uchiha daily but nothing he did minato just do better.
Edo tensei.
I don’t see that on the card. I play uno hard. They didn’t write edo lol
Tobirama himself is sealing master as well this mfs created jutsu which was used by Minato. Tobirama actually had chanse to fight against other sealing masters (Hashirama and Uzumaki) and had far better reaction time than Minato. I think that Tobirama would be proud if Minato won, because it would mean that Konoha had bright future, but dunno I will still chose Senju.
Tobirama is not a joke. He’s legit insane. But a fight between them would end in a draw since either opponent can retreat easily if things get hairy.
I’m finna draw 25 because that’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever heard
I guess I’m a minato wanker
Eh everyone has opinions
Can he beat dead Minato though?
With kcm hell no not even and if it's alive tobirama he literally just can't not only is kcm minato just better at all the things that I think tobirama is better at chakra reserves and strength minato got all that now and if he was edo he most likely would still lose
Tobirama is Theeeee Jutsu inventor tho ….
Such a dumb take im struggling to tell if it’s bait or not
Tobirama is better at some things. But minato is better at what truly matters in their fighting style. Even just rasengan alone could decide who wins this. Databooks say minato didnt like hand seal jutsus because they waste time. Rasengan doesnt require handseals. Minato perfected that teleport>hit fast>mark enemy fighting style.
How does tobirama beat him? Minato is better at flying raijin, has knowledge of uzumaki sealing techniques, is fast asf. He basically perfected what tobirama made. Tobirama has edo tensei ig, but that requires a sacrifice
if we are taking both characters at their strongest tobirama is getting folded by KCM minato. if we are leaving that out its closes but a lot of minato's techniques is tobirama's but stronger. also minato has sage mode so i sort of disagree with the people saying tobirama will win on chakra reserves so i think minato is still winning.
Minato the goat
Imo given enough time I'm sure Tobirama would create a jutsu just to deal with Minato.
Who takes the advantage in iq Minato the highest score in the academy or Tobirama who created it
Minato wankers highlight the Obito fight nonstop when the later was just an inexperienced angsty teen. And young Bee could also offed Minato even it it was a mutual death. Yeah, he sealed Kurama, at the cost of both his and Kushina's lives. Big win.
Actually Minato beats Tobirama because of his sealing jutsu.
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Minato is the better Tobirama, and in the OG series he was stated to be the "strongest" hokage. Later
On OG ot was stated that 1<2<3<4 But Kishimoto changed his mind in shipuden, so we can't really use OG version of powerscale
Minato would kill tobirama mid diff
Alive Minato > Alive and Edo Tobirama I kicked it up a notch even further, its 2024 and youtube is for free
If minato was replaced with itachi the comment section would be a warzone RN
Nah it would be cold war if America and Russia weren't bluffing
I just can't. Minato would never just die to Jonin. Until then, I need a crazy argument for Tobirama.
I like Tobirama and think the guy #DidNothingWrong but nothing supports that he is beating Minato, especially how he died.
Minato has sage mode and kyubby mode and improved spacial jutsu made by Tobirama Minato wins
Alive minato...also this is a purposely aggravating shit post any so say whatever you want
Even that is questionable to be honest. Base Minato was walking fodder if you were fast enough to catch him, which Tobirama was able to do
Tobirama whoops Minato and it’s not close. No I’m not debating and No I’m not responding to yours.
Honestly Minato is not that powerful, he’s just charismatic and gives off the vibe that he’s stronger than he actually is
You don't strike fear into every single enemy force with the color of your hair because you're charismatic. You do it by murdering a lot of mfs
Yes yes the typical “flea on site” argument, then you’ll comment on how quickly he figured out Obtio’s thing as if dozens of other characters didn’t also figure it out quickly, Minato’s fans are too predictable
Right because using facts makes us predictable lol lemme just make shit up to prove my point🤣
A lot of other characters also got “flee on sight” order, Shisui and Fugaku were one of them, and I’m sure many other characters would’ve also gotten that if they participated in the wars. As for the Obito thing, Sakura also figured it out when Obito was still Tobi, and Danzo assistants also figured it out, and Konan. He did nothing special
Minato has every bijuu, he created every jutsu, he birthed naruto himself and let kushina take the credit cause he's a nice guy, kaguya was his side piece, he walks madara on a leash. Hmm what else should i add?
What are you smoking bro? (That would be fun to, see alive Minato who stole every Biju and is now walking around in his office because nobody has balls to fight against someone who has 9 biju in his belly)
I cant be predictable so delusion was the way
Delulu is solulu bro, use your max potential