Seems like an easy opportunity to cut him down, until next year when the man may get to play with his own son…4 years of balling out of your mind after a long career of finals appearances (and rings) topped off by the all time Daddery of playing in the NBA with your actual son sure sounds like maybe the most mind blowing sports achievement I’ve ever even considered.
As someone who grew up near akron and watched lebron and kyrie all through college in Cleveland. I would have given anything to see them stay together. Still a huge fan of both players
Honestly tho
Lebrons performance in LA these last few years have been incredible to watch, it's not even like he just was a big playing post up ball getting easy work in stay padding
Man ran the floor, led his team, and balled out while doing it. If he somehow wins another ring he's the goat Idgaf what anyone says but even without it I think it's hard to argue against him as the goat now that we see the longevity
No 40 year old has ever been able to do what Lebron can do right now, not Kareem, not Nowitzki, not even MJ was able to produce like this. Lebron is insane
had to look up the dunk i was remembering, but was not prepared for the Mark Jackson-ism [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUMJFqctiA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUMJFqctiA)
We definitely would have. He was our top scorer and a good defender back then. Dude was key to the team, but without him I believe we had Corey Brewer starting, when he was more of a spark plug off the bench. 38-3 at home is no joke
Would love to see him remain a free agent until after his son is drafted then he'd just join that team.
Issues that come with that:
* Teams may draft Bronny higher just in hopes of getting his dad to join them, and for a discount
* Any team that dad is on would instantly have to think "win-now" and may need to make some offseason moves to accommodate that
* Etc...
By "offseason moves" I meant having to give up future stars/picks to get him a win-now team as opposed to a future stars team, which was the 2019 Lakers and their attempt to trade 236 players for AD at the deadline.
2020 Lakers feels like a lifetime ago. Really thought we were going to see more finals appearances. Disappointing that I started tuning into LeBron post Cavs era. I wish that bubble season had fans as well, the atmosphere was dogshit to watch on screen and I wish I could experience that championship with the proper energy it deserved
A finals appearance at the Lakers with a proper atmosphere would be so lit
I think they win for sure in 2021 without AD going down and Bron not getting hurt earlier on. Maybe the Westbrook trade doesn’t happen after they win and they continue beyond that too
He’s both so good that teams should build around him and old to the point that while great, he can’t carry a team single handidly like in his prime. How are those conflicting viewpoints?
I could imagine in 2016 if you swapped the cavs and one of the top 3 the cavs don't get out of the west. Going through 2/3 of prime KD russ thunder, 73 win warriors and 67 win spurs isn't easy for anyone
He 100% is missing 4 years in a row. 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2018 he was owned by the best of the west and 2016 he isn't going through away series against OKC and GSW. He had a very easy run in the weak east to finals all those years.
Homie you skipped a year he won it right in the middle lol what are we doing.
He literally did beat the warriors in 16 and they beat the Thunder so idk how you can say he definitely wouldn’t make it.
2015 they honestly might win it all because I think they beat the warriors with a healthy Love and Kyrie. Then they get a weak East matchup after their injuries.
What squad would Lebron have been part of in the west from 2014 to 2017 of he doesn't go back to Cleveland? If he goes to Houston with Harden there's a very strong chance that Houston is able to own the West.
Honestly I always thought if LeBron and cp3 played together in their primes no one beats them. The level of consistent floor raising between them was crazy. Complementary skills, total package players imo. Swap Blake for LeBron and those clippers would be TOUGH
I don’t believe he’d miss 4 straight in his prime, no. The 2015 and 2016 teams were both basically toss ups against the Dubs if healthy.
But he also wouldn’t have won more than two conference titles in any 4 year stretch.
I get it, bron is your goat, but can you please acknowledge how stacked the west has been for most of the years this century?
It’s not like bron was unbeatable in finals against western teams during his prime.
West has always been harder.
If Bron was on any of those western teams they’d be a juggernaut also. And with a good supporting cast he won in 2012, 2013, and 2016. Safe to say he’d be making the finals pretty consistently regardless, albeit not every single season.
Replied to someone saying that Lebron wouldn't get to the Finals every season with the Cavs team out west, which I agree with but gave the two teams I think he could've joined in FA out west in 2014. One of them was the Lakers, which wouldn't happen with Kobe's injuries and contract. The other was the Warriors:
The 13-14 Warriors were 6th in the standings and got knocked out in 7 by the Clips, but they won 51 games in a stacked West that season and Curry was an All-Star averaging 24, 4 and 8, got Iguodala who was an All-Star two seasons before that and had a budding Klay Thompson. Fairly attractive proposition, even if we don't use hindsight. You've got an All-Star waiting for a number one option and two decent pieces for a Steph, Klay, Iguodala, Lebron, Bogut(?) lineup. Plus, they almost had the cap-space. Would've had to trade away some assets and a couple players but who wouldn't to get Lebron?
We put him on that Warriors team and it's already wraps for the next 5 years at least, maybe even 8 depending on the contract situations and how they handle them.
Side note: I agree that that Cavs team does not get to the finals every year for 5 years in the West. Side, side note: Didn't mention Draymond because he wouldn't really be a factor in decision making imo in 2013-14 and probably never blossoms with Lebron joining the Dubs. Very different career trajectories for both.
TLDR: Only team I think Lebron could've joined out west is the Warriors and we know what would've happened.
Obviously west was better. I’m saying a much bigger difference is Lebron isn’t in his prime anymore. Do you think the Suns a couple years ago or Nuggets are beating prime Lebron?
Couple years ago Bron wasn't in his prime too and i think he missed the playoffs.
During Lebron prime years in the West there was: prime Kobe (2008-2013), prime Dirk (2006-2012), prime Nash (2005-2010), prime Spurs (2007-2016), prime OKC (2010-2012), prime CP3 (2008-2018), prime Steph (2013-2022), prime KD (2010-2019), prime Harden (2014-2020), prime Kawhi years (2014-2018), prime AD (2012-2019). Moreover there were several teams that were at their all time high or close to it in those years, like the Grit and Grind Grizzlies, Portland, Utah, Clippers...
I mean of course not all of those teams will beat Lebron, but just from 2015 to 2018 Lebron and his Cavs won't get to the Finals each year like they did if they were in the West, just because the competition was too high and it would be easier to get out early with a bad matchup. Meanwhile the East was trash, not even saying it was so and so, it was straight trash! Consider that in 2015 Kyle Korver was an All Star in the East...
LeBron was 3-6 vs the west in the finals coming from the east. 8 of those were after he started forming super teams to win championships. Even when LeBron was in his prime playing with multiple other all stars he couldn't beat the top west teams more than he lost.
There’s more context to that:
2 of them came against the Kd warriors. Not just because they were a west team but because they were literally the greatest team ever
1 was against the warriors where Kyrie and KLove got hurt and his 2nd leading scorer was Mozgov
Another was against the spurs when he was 22 and had arguably the worst finals roster ever.
Lebron was still playing like a god in all of those finals except against the mavs (which is a legit knock) but if Kyrie and KLove don’t get hurt in 2015 and if KD doesn’t join the warriors Lebron probably has at least two more rings
We're also talking in a vaccuum where Lebron doesn't end up joining a team out west in FA in 2014. If he did, he had two options imo because of cap space and pieces, the Lakers and the Warriors. Lakers are out, Kobe's 36, has a terrible contract for the next 2 seasons.
But the Warriors, without hindsight, would not be a super team (Curry was a 1 time All-star and Iggy won one 2 years before 13-14 but as a reserve, and only because he was the best player on a barely .500 sixers team but did have an 1st All-Defensive team).
The 13-14 Warriors were 6th in the standings and got knocked out in 7 by the Clips, but they won 51 games in a stacked West that season and Curry was an All-Star averaging 24, 4 and 8, got Iguodala who was an All-Star two seasons before that and had a budding Klay Thompson. Fairly attractive proposition, even if we don't use hindsight. You've got an All-Star waiting for a number one option and two decent pieces for a Steph, Klay, Iguodala, Lebron, Bogut(?) lineup. Plus, they almost had the cap-space. Would've had to trade away some assets and a couple players but who wouldn't to get Lebron?
We put him on that Warriors team and it's already wraps for the next 5 years at least, maybe even 8 depending on the contract situations and how they handle them.
side note: Didn't mention Draymond because he wouldn't really be a factor in decision making imo in 2013-14 and probably never blossoms with Lebron joining the Dubs. Very different career trajectories for both.
TLDR: Only team I think Lebron could've joined out west is the Warriors and we know what would've happened. (Also would never have done it, but yes he would not have gone to the Finals every season with that Cavs team out West, but he wouldn't be on the Cavs. He'd be on a guilt-free Warriors team, most likely).
It is funny when people talk about LeBron not having to go through the west they act like he would've been on those dysfunctional Kings team or something
The 2007 cavs making the finals is the point. The east sucked ass. Lebron has a bunch of finals appearances because the east is a travesty. His time in the West is more indicative of how it would have gone for him.
Instead of having to fight through the kobe Lakers, Duncan spurs, dirk Mavs, Nash suns, KD thunder, curry warriors, Harden rockets, then the KD+curry warriors, he was fighting Paul George lmao
The best playoff team LeBron beat to make the finals in his first 7 years was a 53-29 pistons team without Ben Wallace. After joining the Heat it was either the big 3 Celtics (ancient and wade averaged 30ppg their first playoff series) or the Rose Bulls, who were completely outmatched. Then who? The Paul George pacers and the hawks? Teams with players that have never done anything ever?
Lebron played in the east 15 years and made the playoffs 13 times and never faced a 50-win team in the first round, and had many seasons where he didn't even fight a 50-win team in the second round. In the West he's already had to fight a 50-win team in the first round 3 times in 6 years, and this west isnt nearly as strong as it was in its heyday of the mid 2000s and 2010s.
Having to play against good teams almost every round (and sometimes every round) significantly lowers your chances of making the finals and of course winning a chip. Lebron getting a free ride to the eastern conference finals every year meant he only had to really try in a single series before getting a shot at a ring, while the West teams beat the shit out of each other. He's been jumping from team to team for nearly 15 years to team with other all stars to accumulate as many rings as possible. It isn't like he was on bad teams most of the time.
chill he shouldnt have mentioned 2007 but his point stands that pretty much no team in history was beating KD warriors or the 2015 warriors with 2/3 of your best players injured lol. so saying 3-6 can be misleading regarding his record against the west.
Not that it discredits your point about the East being weaker than the West. No one's refuting that.
Nevertheless, consider the fact that LBJ had the shortest offseason for 9 years in a row and was consistently healthy and the best player on his teams every single year. We've seen greats like Dwade and their decline after just 3 straight finals.
And no, his time in the West would not have been indicative of how it would have gone for him. wtf? If he chose to join a strong team in the west and won you'd use the same superteam / running from the grind argument against him. If he joined a random team in the west and won nothing because as you say, the west is ridiculously good, you'd call him a bust.
If you'd want to accurately compare against MJ or any dynasty for example, he'd have to be drafted to a competent franchise in the West.
And to make things even easier in the east when they went to Miami in 2011 they basically weakened two of the strongest teams in the east to make it easier to make finals. Outside of Rose the east had garbage players for most of 2011 to 2018.
I’m assuming you still clown on him for his finals record though. You can’t have it both ways. If he made the finals cause the East was a cakewalk then you can’t constantly bring up his finals record and use it to trash him. If he played in the west the whole time his finals record would look more clean. But then you’d say wow he only made the finals 4 times what a bum. Can’t have it both ways
He only had a super team in Miami where he was 2-2 in the finals. His Cleveland teams were not super teams. He was 1-1 against the pre-KD warriors. it is a bit dishonest to omit he also was playing against the KD warriors (the ultimate super team in nba history) in two of those finals.
He absolutely had a super team with the Cavs his second stint there. What teams out had anywhere close to the firepower of Lebron/Kyrie/Klove? Just because the KD Warriors existed doesn't mean LeBron didn't have a stacked team. It was certainly more stacked than any of the other eastern conference teams by far. And in a post about finals appearances, playing in that dog shit eastern conference with super teams matters a lot. When Lebron wasn't teamed up with 2 other all stars in the worst conference in NBA history, he only made the finals a single time, facing two 41-41 teams and a 53-29 pistons team without Ben Wallace to get there.
Lebron making 10 NBA finals has way more to do with the East being ass than him being great. He's still great, but you don't make the finals that much unless your conference is shit. Magic also made 9 NBA finals when the West was a joke.
People will talk about this a lot more in 15 -20 years the East was terrible in the 2010s, I remember in 2017 looking at the Cavs roster with Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Korver, shumpert, smith when they played the Celtics with Isaiah Thomas, Jae crowder, Avery Bradley thinking how much better the Cavs were. Mind you the Celtics were the number 1-2 seed that year lol.
It looks worse because with the exception of AD Lebron has always relegated his centers into role players, but anyone who watched Love in Minnesota absolutely saw the Cavs as a superteam at their inception
Chris Bosh the year before joining Lebron in Miami: 24.0/10.8/2.4 on 51.8/36.4/79.7 splits on 16.5 shots per game.
Kevin Love the year before joining Lebron in Cleveland: 26.1/12.5/4.4 on 45.7/37.6/82.1 splits on 18.5 shots per game.
In the 4 seasons Bosh played with Lebron, he was relegated to a pick-and-pop player and his shots per game shrunk to 13.0 per game. In the 4 seasons Love played with Lebron, he was relegated to a pick-and-pop player and his shots per game shrunk to 13.0 per game.
And then there's Anthony Davis, who averaged 26.7/11.3/2.5 on 51.3/32.4/79.9 splits on 19.3 fga/game in his last 4 seasons on the Pelicans. In his 5 years as Lebron's teammate has has never even reached 18 fga/game in any season. His first year with the Lakers he scored more points/game than Lebron despite Lebron shooting more per game (19.4/game for Lebron, 17.7 for Davis). You would think as Lebron got older that he would have lightened his load and relied more on Davis, but the last 3 years the discrepancy has been 21.8 James, 17.4 Davis (2021-22), 22.2 James, 17.2 Davis (2022-23), and even this year with Lebron at 39 years old and Davis playing more games than ever for the Lakers, it was still 17.9 James, 16.9 Davis.
If the Lakers had had a Wade/Irving, Lebron almost certainly would have relegated Davis to a 3rd option pick-and-pop player just like he did to Bosh and Love. Its just the way Lebron likes to play the game. It isn't that those guys were bad players, this is just what happens when Lebron is your teammate
So Kyrie and Love on their own were successful franchise players who carried their teams to the playoffs every year before Lebron showed up? That what Bosh and Wade were before the Heat super team was formed?
All 3 were all stars, 2 of them were All NBA, 1 of them is the 2nd greatest player of all time. Sounds pretty super to me. Also Kyrie played way better in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs than Wade did from 2012-2014. Love from 2015-2017 was also not that far off Bosh from 2012-2014.
The names sound and are worse but Lebron didnt team up with a prime Wade and prime Bosh, both players had to massively reduce their roles and change their styles and were perenially injured.
Kinda disagree on this, people shit on Laker roster, but actually they have legit 7 players out there, Vando was injured or else they would have 8. DLo is inconsistent but is still better than more than half of the league best 3rd guy out there.
Rui was disappointment in this playoffs, but he belong out there not much different than KCP for example. In comparison Denver has 5 guys, all the others provide nothing. At the end of the day the big difference with Denver this year was that Jokic and Murray are simply better than Lebron and AD for me. If you switch those 4 i think the Lakers would have won and would be title contender.
Agree to disagree.
1. DLo is not championship level #3 guy. He's not better than JDub, MPJ, Gobert/KAT, Harden, Beal (although he was terrible these playoffs), DWhite, Khris, Jarrett Allen, OG, and Turner). He may be better than half the 3rd best players on teams in the league but that's not going to cut it if the Lakers want to compete for chips.
2. Rui is a good role player but he's not the same caliber as KCP. KCP has literally shown he can be the 4th or 5th best guy on 2 different championship squads. Rui simply hasn't shown that yet.
3. Even if you think Denver only has 5 guys, which I don't necessarily disagree with, those 5 guys are much much better than the Lakers best 5. Aaron Gordon has made a ton of clutch plays at the ends of these games and has done more than any role player on the Lakers side. MPJ has shot lights out, and KCP has defended pretty well on the perimeter to neutralize Reaves/DLo. On the other side, every Lakers role player has been inconsistent at best and ineffective in some cases.
Nah man. For one MPJ outplayed Murray this series. Murray just hit the big shots at the end. Second if Rui, Prince, and Dinwiddie were legit then so were Reggie, Watson, and Braun. Third the Nuggets had 5 of the top 8 players in the series imo with Reeves really only being better than KCP out of the Nuggets starting 5.
>For one MPJ outplayed Murray this series. Murray just hit the big shots at the end.
Wtf? Who was talking about this?
>Second if Rui, Prince, and Dinwiddie were legit then so were Reggie, Watson, and Braun.
Big difference here is that Rui Prince and Dinwiddie combined for 18.2 ppg while Reggie Watson and Braun for just 10.4. Then the 3 of them had a net rating better than the 3 from the Lakers. Also if you take in KCP for Watson or Reggie this doesn't change much, and still we are talking of guys 5 to 7.
Denver bench stinks this year if Reggie is that washed and Braun can't hit threes. On top if KCP isn't knocking too you get why they have 2 close win and a loss out of 5 games...
Lmfao. Which team is better than having Lebron James and Anthony Fucking Davis?
Whole nother thread out there trying to prove that LBJ and AD played like top 5 players these playoffs.
We saying he’s so good but still needs so much more help than AD; that be paradoxical in nature.
I think people have legitimately gaslit themselves into thinking they wouldn't have wanted their team to win that ring in order to hate on the Lakers/LeBron
Don’t see how people keep using this logic. If the world sinks into the ocean, the one team with the fucking fish will win the chip.
Is that a fair chip? No the Bucks woulda just been lucky to have Khris Middleton.
The fact that you’re posting this and a bunch of idiots are going to use this as means to try and tear him down shows how much the intelligence and fandom around the game have declined.
Making it 8 straight years is still super impressive because of the insane durability, consistency, and stamina required.
That being said it is pretty crazy that LeBron faced ONE total First Team All-NBA player before the Finals during that 8 year run in the East, Rose his first year with the Heat. That’s it.
why do i always hear this argument about mj facing plumbers, etc
as you said, bron faced one 1st team all nba, and mj played against all time HOFers like magic, bird, isaiah, shaq, etc. i don't understand the argument...
hiv magic, baby shaq, never beat bird, only beat isiah after getting the nba to change the rules for him. (imagine if lebron did that) also doesnt make sense to bring up western conference players when everyone knows lebron had way harder finals opponents
Yeah, I don’t think Jordan ever had a winning record against Bird’s Celtics until Bird’s final season in the league.
Before Jordan got Pippen, a very young Jordan went 1-17 against prime Bird over 2 seasons (regular season and playoffs included), including consecutive first round playoff sweeps.
It wasn’t Jordan’s fault though, he played very well.
Sure but the East always had at least 1 other team that was good. Most of the ECFs were always really competitive. Those Lebron teams had to work hard to win those series
It was but Lebron still beat the spurs and golden state so it’s not like him coming out of the East meant the Cavs were inferior teams.
The whole Lebron east argument gets old when you consider if Lebron was drafted to a western conference team he probably wins a title earlier because western conference teams are generally managed better. Any of those mid to late 2000s western conference teams with an athletic prime Lebron easily decimate the west . He literally won a title as a 35-36 year old with the lakers and got past Jokic albeit a younger less developed incarnation . He’s just old now
Mavs with Lebron ? Ring in 06’
Spurs with Lebron? Lol GG super dynasty
Lakers with Lebron ? Again GG
Suns with Lebron ? They probably win in 06’ + 07’ probably 2010 as well
Jazz with Lebron ? Even if you switch boozer for bron deron with LBJ and AK47 is deadly
Nuggets with Lebron? They win in 09’ with billups and young JR . Bare minimum they make the finals . Dwight beat 09’ Lebron but those cavs teams sucked
Blazers with Lebron? Who’s stopping Aldridge and Lebron
Because he only played the best West teams lol. If he was in the West his entire career playing teams like the Blazers and Jazz in the 1st round he’d obviously have a higher win%
Point proven for how stupid an argument finals losses is. If anything it should be a positive that Lebron has lost the last 4 years because that means no more finals losses. Right?
When you make 9 finals in a decade it becomes a unfair standard and unrealistic expectation many individuals will hold you to and expect it of you every season and somehow hold it against you and your legacy if it doesn't. To make 8 straight finals in a major league of a team sport is one of the most or the most unappreciated achievement in the modern era of pro sports as many of us will understandably never understand just how hard it is to make he finals once let alone 8 times and as the team leader each time.
The fact something like this is even discussed as hes approaching 40 just shows the ridiculous level of scrutiny Lebron faces. What really should be discussed is the fact a 39 year old is still playing at a MVP level and the best player on the team...
Lebron is in a league of his own. His legacy is cemented and only grows year by year. Most these guys will never get to one Finals, let alone god knows how many he’s gotten to, while carrying the load. 40 years old, still scoring 25,8,8. He’s unbelievable.
Damn this just makes me sad, if you told me this fact 4 years ago I would have naturally assumed it was cause he had fallen off like every other player his age. The fact that he has been putting in these amazing seasons on such poorly constructed teams is a shame, even if he shares a lot of the blame for that.
It's amusing when you look back at the 2010s, the eastern conference was in shambles, LeBron and Bosh cowardliness literally killed the whole conference, 35 wins was already enough to contend for a 8th seed spot in the east. It was also the start of the soft generation, the rules prohibiting contact, etc.. luckily the west remained competitive, they were able to stop LeBron on his tracks. I hope the NBA recover eventually, bring back physicality, limit the formation of "super teams" and so on
What?
You mean to tell me, he went West where there was competition and didn't get to the finals every year
Almost as if he played in an awful conference for more than a decade and cake walked into the finals
#Greatness
He’s played in the eastern conference most of his career that plays a big factor to his consistency. Since maybe 1999 after the bulls era, the league has been Western conference dominant. Here and there you get East to win some. It’s hard with win and NBA championship let alone get to the finals. If he was on a west team early in his career who knows if he’d have all those appearances.
That's a dumb what-if game, though, because we don't know who would have been on that west team with him. There are way too many scenarios to ever consider "what if," including a scenario where he lands on a well managed team and has more rings than he does today.
Seems like an easy opportunity to cut him down, until next year when the man may get to play with his own son…4 years of balling out of your mind after a long career of finals appearances (and rings) topped off by the all time Daddery of playing in the NBA with your actual son sure sounds like maybe the most mind blowing sports achievement I’ve ever even considered.
Don’t be distasteful. He’s already played with Kyrie, whom he adores. Playing with his second oldest son is a good high note to bow out on, too.
If Kyrie and Bron stayed together it would’ve been one of the most legendary duos of all time
As someone who grew up near akron and watched lebron and kyrie all through college in Cleveland. I would have given anything to see them stay together. Still a huge fan of both players
Honestly tho Lebrons performance in LA these last few years have been incredible to watch, it's not even like he just was a big playing post up ball getting easy work in stay padding Man ran the floor, led his team, and balled out while doing it. If he somehow wins another ring he's the goat Idgaf what anyone says but even without it I think it's hard to argue against him as the goat now that we see the longevity
No 40 year old has ever been able to do what Lebron can do right now, not Kareem, not Nowitzki, not even MJ was able to produce like this. Lebron is insane
He’s did win a ring. He’s gonna win the next 4 in season tournaments too.
I know? That's why I said if he wins another ring
I was trying to make a joke about the in season tournament. Sorry
Oh I'm sorry I genuinely did not pick that up but I'm also dumb high
It was a bad joke anyways lol
Oh no actually solid joke Lebron won mickey mouse ring and the in season tournament is the equivalent I like it
LeTired
LeThargy
Well, have a nap
Even though he’s probably overthinking the loss that night of sleep in LA must hit different
[Damn! I was hoping you had gotten the reference to this classic, lol](https://youtu.be/kCpjgl2baLs?si=-dTwJxK52KVlkxka)
Lmao my bad man I missed this one from back in the day
Glad to be there for half that run
I still miss your Ty Lawson teams tho
Need to bring back the powder blues asap
had to look up the dunk i was remembering, but was not prepared for the Mark Jackson-ism [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUMJFqctiA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUMJFqctiA)
That 2013 team has a special place in most Nuggets fans’ hearts. We might’ve made more noise with a healthy Gallinari, but who knows
We definitely would have. He was our top scorer and a good defender back then. Dude was key to the team, but without him I believe we had Corey Brewer starting, when he was more of a spark plug off the bench. 38-3 at home is no joke
Would love to see him remain a free agent until after his son is drafted then he'd just join that team. Issues that come with that: * Teams may draft Bronny higher just in hopes of getting his dad to join them, and for a discount * Any team that dad is on would instantly have to think "win-now" and may need to make some offseason moves to accommodate that * Etc...
Any team with young/future stars would have to be willing to give court control to Lebron. It instantly becomes Lebrons team.
By "offseason moves" I meant having to give up future stars/picks to get him a win-now team as opposed to a future stars team, which was the 2019 Lakers and their attempt to trade 236 players for AD at the deadline.
2020 Lakers feels like a lifetime ago. Really thought we were going to see more finals appearances. Disappointing that I started tuning into LeBron post Cavs era. I wish that bubble season had fans as well, the atmosphere was dogshit to watch on screen and I wish I could experience that championship with the proper energy it deserved A finals appearance at the Lakers with a proper atmosphere would be so lit
I think they win for sure in 2021 without AD going down and Bron not getting hurt earlier on. Maybe the Westbrook trade doesn’t happen after they win and they continue beyond that too
the west ain’t easy
Or you know, he's 40 fucking years old
And still could have made it if the dumb ass FO didn’t let half their championship team walk.
Or if Solomon Hill didn’t dolphin dive into his knees when we were 21-6.
[удалено]
He’s both so good that teams should build around him and old to the point that while great, he can’t carry a team single handidly like in his prime. How are those conflicting viewpoints?
He’s just old. If it was prime Lebron this wouldn’t be the case.
Did you forget the juggernauts out West from 2013 through 2019?
You think k he’s missing the finals 4 years in a row out west? He hasn’t gone 4 years without winning a finals before this year since 2012
I could imagine in 2016 if you swapped the cavs and one of the top 3 the cavs don't get out of the west. Going through 2/3 of prime KD russ thunder, 73 win warriors and 67 win spurs isn't easy for anyone
I mean I don’t think they would have to beat all 3 and they beat the best of the 3 so.
in the east *
Yeah he beat the best team in the west those years.
He 100% is missing 4 years in a row. 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2018 he was owned by the best of the west and 2016 he isn't going through away series against OKC and GSW. He had a very easy run in the weak east to finals all those years.
Homie you skipped a year he won it right in the middle lol what are we doing. He literally did beat the warriors in 16 and they beat the Thunder so idk how you can say he definitely wouldn’t make it. 2015 they honestly might win it all because I think they beat the warriors with a healthy Love and Kyrie. Then they get a weak East matchup after their injuries.
What squad would Lebron have been part of in the west from 2014 to 2017 of he doesn't go back to Cleveland? If he goes to Houston with Harden there's a very strong chance that Houston is able to own the West.
Honestly I always thought if LeBron and cp3 played together in their primes no one beats them. The level of consistent floor raising between them was crazy. Complementary skills, total package players imo. Swap Blake for LeBron and those clippers would be TOUGH
I don’t believe he’d miss 4 straight in his prime, no. The 2015 and 2016 teams were both basically toss ups against the Dubs if healthy. But he also wouldn’t have won more than two conference titles in any 4 year stretch.
I get it, bron is your goat, but can you please acknowledge how stacked the west has been for most of the years this century? It’s not like bron was unbeatable in finals against western teams during his prime. West has always been harder.
If Bron was on any of those western teams they’d be a juggernaut also. And with a good supporting cast he won in 2012, 2013, and 2016. Safe to say he’d be making the finals pretty consistently regardless, albeit not every single season.
Replied to someone saying that Lebron wouldn't get to the Finals every season with the Cavs team out west, which I agree with but gave the two teams I think he could've joined in FA out west in 2014. One of them was the Lakers, which wouldn't happen with Kobe's injuries and contract. The other was the Warriors: The 13-14 Warriors were 6th in the standings and got knocked out in 7 by the Clips, but they won 51 games in a stacked West that season and Curry was an All-Star averaging 24, 4 and 8, got Iguodala who was an All-Star two seasons before that and had a budding Klay Thompson. Fairly attractive proposition, even if we don't use hindsight. You've got an All-Star waiting for a number one option and two decent pieces for a Steph, Klay, Iguodala, Lebron, Bogut(?) lineup. Plus, they almost had the cap-space. Would've had to trade away some assets and a couple players but who wouldn't to get Lebron? We put him on that Warriors team and it's already wraps for the next 5 years at least, maybe even 8 depending on the contract situations and how they handle them. Side note: I agree that that Cavs team does not get to the finals every year for 5 years in the West. Side, side note: Didn't mention Draymond because he wouldn't really be a factor in decision making imo in 2013-14 and probably never blossoms with Lebron joining the Dubs. Very different career trajectories for both. TLDR: Only team I think Lebron could've joined out west is the Warriors and we know what would've happened.
Obviously west was better. I’m saying a much bigger difference is Lebron isn’t in his prime anymore. Do you think the Suns a couple years ago or Nuggets are beating prime Lebron?
Couple years ago Bron wasn't in his prime too and i think he missed the playoffs. During Lebron prime years in the West there was: prime Kobe (2008-2013), prime Dirk (2006-2012), prime Nash (2005-2010), prime Spurs (2007-2016), prime OKC (2010-2012), prime CP3 (2008-2018), prime Steph (2013-2022), prime KD (2010-2019), prime Harden (2014-2020), prime Kawhi years (2014-2018), prime AD (2012-2019). Moreover there were several teams that were at their all time high or close to it in those years, like the Grit and Grind Grizzlies, Portland, Utah, Clippers... I mean of course not all of those teams will beat Lebron, but just from 2015 to 2018 Lebron and his Cavs won't get to the Finals each year like they did if they were in the West, just because the competition was too high and it would be easier to get out early with a bad matchup. Meanwhile the East was trash, not even saying it was so and so, it was straight trash! Consider that in 2015 Kyle Korver was an All Star in the East...
LeBron was 3-6 vs the west in the finals coming from the east. 8 of those were after he started forming super teams to win championships. Even when LeBron was in his prime playing with multiple other all stars he couldn't beat the top west teams more than he lost.
There’s more context to that: 2 of them came against the Kd warriors. Not just because they were a west team but because they were literally the greatest team ever 1 was against the warriors where Kyrie and KLove got hurt and his 2nd leading scorer was Mozgov Another was against the spurs when he was 22 and had arguably the worst finals roster ever. Lebron was still playing like a god in all of those finals except against the mavs (which is a legit knock) but if Kyrie and KLove don’t get hurt in 2015 and if KD doesn’t join the warriors Lebron probably has at least two more rings
We're also talking in a vaccuum where Lebron doesn't end up joining a team out west in FA in 2014. If he did, he had two options imo because of cap space and pieces, the Lakers and the Warriors. Lakers are out, Kobe's 36, has a terrible contract for the next 2 seasons. But the Warriors, without hindsight, would not be a super team (Curry was a 1 time All-star and Iggy won one 2 years before 13-14 but as a reserve, and only because he was the best player on a barely .500 sixers team but did have an 1st All-Defensive team). The 13-14 Warriors were 6th in the standings and got knocked out in 7 by the Clips, but they won 51 games in a stacked West that season and Curry was an All-Star averaging 24, 4 and 8, got Iguodala who was an All-Star two seasons before that and had a budding Klay Thompson. Fairly attractive proposition, even if we don't use hindsight. You've got an All-Star waiting for a number one option and two decent pieces for a Steph, Klay, Iguodala, Lebron, Bogut(?) lineup. Plus, they almost had the cap-space. Would've had to trade away some assets and a couple players but who wouldn't to get Lebron? We put him on that Warriors team and it's already wraps for the next 5 years at least, maybe even 8 depending on the contract situations and how they handle them. side note: Didn't mention Draymond because he wouldn't really be a factor in decision making imo in 2013-14 and probably never blossoms with Lebron joining the Dubs. Very different career trajectories for both. TLDR: Only team I think Lebron could've joined out west is the Warriors and we know what would've happened. (Also would never have done it, but yes he would not have gone to the Finals every season with that Cavs team out West, but he wouldn't be on the Cavs. He'd be on a guilt-free Warriors team, most likely).
It is funny when people talk about LeBron not having to go through the west they act like he would've been on those dysfunctional Kings team or something
Why not Houston? They were gonna sign max CB until he dipped and came back to Miami.
The 2007 cavs making the finals is the point. The east sucked ass. Lebron has a bunch of finals appearances because the east is a travesty. His time in the West is more indicative of how it would have gone for him. Instead of having to fight through the kobe Lakers, Duncan spurs, dirk Mavs, Nash suns, KD thunder, curry warriors, Harden rockets, then the KD+curry warriors, he was fighting Paul George lmao The best playoff team LeBron beat to make the finals in his first 7 years was a 53-29 pistons team without Ben Wallace. After joining the Heat it was either the big 3 Celtics (ancient and wade averaged 30ppg their first playoff series) or the Rose Bulls, who were completely outmatched. Then who? The Paul George pacers and the hawks? Teams with players that have never done anything ever? Lebron played in the east 15 years and made the playoffs 13 times and never faced a 50-win team in the first round, and had many seasons where he didn't even fight a 50-win team in the second round. In the West he's already had to fight a 50-win team in the first round 3 times in 6 years, and this west isnt nearly as strong as it was in its heyday of the mid 2000s and 2010s. Having to play against good teams almost every round (and sometimes every round) significantly lowers your chances of making the finals and of course winning a chip. Lebron getting a free ride to the eastern conference finals every year meant he only had to really try in a single series before getting a shot at a ring, while the West teams beat the shit out of each other. He's been jumping from team to team for nearly 15 years to team with other all stars to accumulate as many rings as possible. It isn't like he was on bad teams most of the time.
chill he shouldnt have mentioned 2007 but his point stands that pretty much no team in history was beating KD warriors or the 2015 warriors with 2/3 of your best players injured lol. so saying 3-6 can be misleading regarding his record against the west. Not that it discredits your point about the East being weaker than the West. No one's refuting that. Nevertheless, consider the fact that LBJ had the shortest offseason for 9 years in a row and was consistently healthy and the best player on his teams every single year. We've seen greats like Dwade and their decline after just 3 straight finals. And no, his time in the West would not have been indicative of how it would have gone for him. wtf? If he chose to join a strong team in the west and won you'd use the same superteam / running from the grind argument against him. If he joined a random team in the west and won nothing because as you say, the west is ridiculously good, you'd call him a bust. If you'd want to accurately compare against MJ or any dynasty for example, he'd have to be drafted to a competent franchise in the West.
And to make things even easier in the east when they went to Miami in 2011 they basically weakened two of the strongest teams in the east to make it easier to make finals. Outside of Rose the east had garbage players for most of 2011 to 2018.
I’m assuming you still clown on him for his finals record though. You can’t have it both ways. If he made the finals cause the East was a cakewalk then you can’t constantly bring up his finals record and use it to trash him. If he played in the west the whole time his finals record would look more clean. But then you’d say wow he only made the finals 4 times what a bum. Can’t have it both ways
He only had a super team in Miami where he was 2-2 in the finals. His Cleveland teams were not super teams. He was 1-1 against the pre-KD warriors. it is a bit dishonest to omit he also was playing against the KD warriors (the ultimate super team in nba history) in two of those finals.
He absolutely had a super team with the Cavs his second stint there. What teams out had anywhere close to the firepower of Lebron/Kyrie/Klove? Just because the KD Warriors existed doesn't mean LeBron didn't have a stacked team. It was certainly more stacked than any of the other eastern conference teams by far. And in a post about finals appearances, playing in that dog shit eastern conference with super teams matters a lot. When Lebron wasn't teamed up with 2 other all stars in the worst conference in NBA history, he only made the finals a single time, facing two 41-41 teams and a 53-29 pistons team without Ben Wallace to get there. Lebron making 10 NBA finals has way more to do with the East being ass than him being great. He's still great, but you don't make the finals that much unless your conference is shit. Magic also made 9 NBA finals when the West was a joke.
People will talk about this a lot more in 15 -20 years the East was terrible in the 2010s, I remember in 2017 looking at the Cavs roster with Lebron, Kyrie, Love, Korver, shumpert, smith when they played the Celtics with Isaiah Thomas, Jae crowder, Avery Bradley thinking how much better the Cavs were. Mind you the Celtics were the number 1-2 seed that year lol.
I'm shocked this is upvoted lol. This sub hates context. That said 2018 was definitely a full carry by lebron.
If that Cavs team is your definition of a super team then the league has multiple super teams every season for the last 50 years.
It looks worse because with the exception of AD Lebron has always relegated his centers into role players, but anyone who watched Love in Minnesota absolutely saw the Cavs as a superteam at their inception
Chris Bosh the year before joining Lebron in Miami: 24.0/10.8/2.4 on 51.8/36.4/79.7 splits on 16.5 shots per game. Kevin Love the year before joining Lebron in Cleveland: 26.1/12.5/4.4 on 45.7/37.6/82.1 splits on 18.5 shots per game. In the 4 seasons Bosh played with Lebron, he was relegated to a pick-and-pop player and his shots per game shrunk to 13.0 per game. In the 4 seasons Love played with Lebron, he was relegated to a pick-and-pop player and his shots per game shrunk to 13.0 per game. And then there's Anthony Davis, who averaged 26.7/11.3/2.5 on 51.3/32.4/79.9 splits on 19.3 fga/game in his last 4 seasons on the Pelicans. In his 5 years as Lebron's teammate has has never even reached 18 fga/game in any season. His first year with the Lakers he scored more points/game than Lebron despite Lebron shooting more per game (19.4/game for Lebron, 17.7 for Davis). You would think as Lebron got older that he would have lightened his load and relied more on Davis, but the last 3 years the discrepancy has been 21.8 James, 17.4 Davis (2021-22), 22.2 James, 17.2 Davis (2022-23), and even this year with Lebron at 39 years old and Davis playing more games than ever for the Lakers, it was still 17.9 James, 16.9 Davis. If the Lakers had had a Wade/Irving, Lebron almost certainly would have relegated Davis to a 3rd option pick-and-pop player just like he did to Bosh and Love. Its just the way Lebron likes to play the game. It isn't that those guys were bad players, this is just what happens when Lebron is your teammate
Noted top 75 player Kyrie Irving, all stars Jr Smith and Iman Shumpert. Cavs were 4-23 without Lebron from 2015-2017
The 2018 rockets would’ve cooked them too
>His Cleveland teams were not super teams. 2nd stint Cavs were absolutely a super team.
So Kyrie and Love on their own were successful franchise players who carried their teams to the playoffs every year before Lebron showed up? That what Bosh and Wade were before the Heat super team was formed?
Kyrie Love & Lebron were all stars, in their prime, that teamed up together. 1000% a super team. I don’t want to hear it.
All 3 were all stars, 2 of them were All NBA, 1 of them is the 2nd greatest player of all time. Sounds pretty super to me. Also Kyrie played way better in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs than Wade did from 2012-2014. Love from 2015-2017 was also not that far off Bosh from 2012-2014. The names sound and are worse but Lebron didnt team up with a prime Wade and prime Bosh, both players had to massively reduce their roles and change their styles and were perenially injured.
Cavs weren't superteams? tf?
And he's 6-3 against the West while past his prime on a team in the West. What's your point?
While missing how many playoffs?
It especially ain't easy when the roster is simply not talented enough to get there.
He just needs another superteam
the Nuggets have a stacked roster and no one says this shit about Jokic. basketball is a team sport
Or you know, a team that’s not giving serious playoff minutes to Spencer Dinwididdie, Taurean Prince and Jaxson Hayes.
Kinda disagree on this, people shit on Laker roster, but actually they have legit 7 players out there, Vando was injured or else they would have 8. DLo is inconsistent but is still better than more than half of the league best 3rd guy out there. Rui was disappointment in this playoffs, but he belong out there not much different than KCP for example. In comparison Denver has 5 guys, all the others provide nothing. At the end of the day the big difference with Denver this year was that Jokic and Murray are simply better than Lebron and AD for me. If you switch those 4 i think the Lakers would have won and would be title contender.
Agree to disagree. 1. DLo is not championship level #3 guy. He's not better than JDub, MPJ, Gobert/KAT, Harden, Beal (although he was terrible these playoffs), DWhite, Khris, Jarrett Allen, OG, and Turner). He may be better than half the 3rd best players on teams in the league but that's not going to cut it if the Lakers want to compete for chips. 2. Rui is a good role player but he's not the same caliber as KCP. KCP has literally shown he can be the 4th or 5th best guy on 2 different championship squads. Rui simply hasn't shown that yet. 3. Even if you think Denver only has 5 guys, which I don't necessarily disagree with, those 5 guys are much much better than the Lakers best 5. Aaron Gordon has made a ton of clutch plays at the ends of these games and has done more than any role player on the Lakers side. MPJ has shot lights out, and KCP has defended pretty well on the perimeter to neutralize Reaves/DLo. On the other side, every Lakers role player has been inconsistent at best and ineffective in some cases.
Nah man. For one MPJ outplayed Murray this series. Murray just hit the big shots at the end. Second if Rui, Prince, and Dinwiddie were legit then so were Reggie, Watson, and Braun. Third the Nuggets had 5 of the top 8 players in the series imo with Reeves really only being better than KCP out of the Nuggets starting 5.
>For one MPJ outplayed Murray this series. Murray just hit the big shots at the end. Wtf? Who was talking about this? >Second if Rui, Prince, and Dinwiddie were legit then so were Reggie, Watson, and Braun. Big difference here is that Rui Prince and Dinwiddie combined for 18.2 ppg while Reggie Watson and Braun for just 10.4. Then the 3 of them had a net rating better than the 3 from the Lakers. Also if you take in KCP for Watson or Reggie this doesn't change much, and still we are talking of guys 5 to 7. Denver bench stinks this year if Reggie is that washed and Braun can't hit threes. On top if KCP isn't knocking too you get why they have 2 close win and a loss out of 5 games...
Lmfao. Which team is better than having Lebron James and Anthony Fucking Davis? Whole nother thread out there trying to prove that LBJ and AD played like top 5 players these playoffs. We saying he’s so good but still needs so much more help than AD; that be paradoxical in nature.
It’s not a 2v2 you dumbass. Tell me any team that won the championship without quality role players
If Curry had AD he would have 6 rings
Yes the one thing Curry lacked in his career was star teammates
If LeBron had the same rosters Curry has had he would have 8.
Bron doesn’t make the playoffs with the Warriors 2022 championship team
Lmao.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. LeBron with the 2022 Warriors wins 60 plus games and doesn't lose more than one game a series.
LOL WHAT
Won a title his 2nd year there 😭
Disney World is in the East Coast
Didn’t realize only Eastern conference teams played in the Bubble This sub is brain dead
At Disneyland and never got close again which proves how ass that ring was. The only rings worse are Bill Russells rings against la fitness players
“We all played under the same conditions but I don’t like the team that ended up winning so i’m going to downplay it”
I think people have legitimately gaslit themselves into thinking they wouldn't have wanted their team to win that ring in order to hate on the Lakers/LeBron
Don’t see how people keep using this logic. If the world sinks into the ocean, the one team with the fucking fish will win the chip. Is that a fair chip? No the Bucks woulda just been lucky to have Khris Middleton.
In respectability of a championship, ADisney>KDIsney warriors
They lost to the eventual champs last year in the conference finals. Does that not count as never got close again?
They got sweeped
They made the conference finals and beat your Warriors on the way
The Lakers are one of three teams in the West to win a championship since he got there.
Bro made it to the WCF last year and lost to the eventual Champs
Neither is playing at 40
hes going east for sure this offseason. He is going to be a big hit in Orlando - the home of Walt Disneyworld.
Funny you think he’s leaving LA
he cant hack it in the west - his only chance to get back is from the east. Could be the Knicks - COuld be Orlando
Holy shit what a dumb take.
36-37-38-39 who can compete in any conference at this age “west ain’t easy”
mj finished his second three peat at 36
Mfers just come on here and lie. Both Bron and MJ won their last chips at 35.
The fact that you’re posting this and a bunch of idiots are going to use this as means to try and tear him down shows how much the intelligence and fandom around the game have declined.
every hater's current favorite player is gonna be retired by the time they hit LeBron's age. Enjoying their money and sore joints.
Correct
I would assume the reverse, that people see this stat and think damn, he made the finals a lot
The East was so weak back then. Still is but back then it was so ass
Making it 8 straight years is still super impressive because of the insane durability, consistency, and stamina required. That being said it is pretty crazy that LeBron faced ONE total First Team All-NBA player before the Finals during that 8 year run in the East, Rose his first year with the Heat. That’s it.
why do i always hear this argument about mj facing plumbers, etc as you said, bron faced one 1st team all nba, and mj played against all time HOFers like magic, bird, isaiah, shaq, etc. i don't understand the argument...
hiv magic, baby shaq, never beat bird, only beat isiah after getting the nba to change the rules for him. (imagine if lebron did that) also doesnt make sense to bring up western conference players when everyone knows lebron had way harder finals opponents
Yeah, I don’t think Jordan ever had a winning record against Bird’s Celtics until Bird’s final season in the league. Before Jordan got Pippen, a very young Jordan went 1-17 against prime Bird over 2 seasons (regular season and playoffs included), including consecutive first round playoff sweeps. It wasn’t Jordan’s fault though, he played very well.
What rules were changed for him just curious
the nba made the flagrant foul rule for him after he complained about the pistons to david stern
East fans coping because Bron owned them for close to a decade
He went off against 15 year old Tatum 🔥🔥🔥🤣
He's 5-2 versus your team in the playoffs
And yet in big 2024 Tatum still has zero rings so looks like you’ll have to come up with new excuses..
He should join 2 superstars and win it like Lebron did 😂
Yeah he should, your only championship in the last 40 years was by a superteam
Hey it worked for Paul "I faked an injury because I shit my pants" Pierce, so maybe Tatum should try that.
your team is jaylen brown KP jrue and derrick white??
Almost like Tatum has had a great team for his entire career so he has no reason to leave bozo
Current Tatum has the same number of chips and mvps as 15 year old Tatum 🔥🔥🔥
The East still stinks tho.
Sure but the East always had at least 1 other team that was good. Most of the ECFs were always really competitive. Those Lebron teams had to work hard to win those series
fr
It was but Lebron still beat the spurs and golden state so it’s not like him coming out of the East meant the Cavs were inferior teams. The whole Lebron east argument gets old when you consider if Lebron was drafted to a western conference team he probably wins a title earlier because western conference teams are generally managed better. Any of those mid to late 2000s western conference teams with an athletic prime Lebron easily decimate the west . He literally won a title as a 35-36 year old with the lakers and got past Jokic albeit a younger less developed incarnation . He’s just old now Mavs with Lebron ? Ring in 06’ Spurs with Lebron? Lol GG super dynasty Lakers with Lebron ? Again GG Suns with Lebron ? They probably win in 06’ + 07’ probably 2010 as well Jazz with Lebron ? Even if you switch boozer for bron deron with LBJ and AK47 is deadly Nuggets with Lebron? They win in 09’ with billups and young JR . Bare minimum they make the finals . Dwight beat 09’ Lebron but those cavs teams sucked Blazers with Lebron? Who’s stopping Aldridge and Lebron
Oh I’m going to save this comment. Lebron in the west would have been an insane run.
It sucks more ass now if anything, look at this year... Only Celtics have a chance. Others are all first round exits in the west.
Why haven’t JT and JB gone to the finals then every year since? Or Giannis?
That year when the second best team in the east was a Celtics team missing their two best players yikes
That's what happens when someone larger, younger, and less athletic than you takes your crown AND throne. And then makes you dance for his amusement.
He’s ancient years old, maybe it’s time you adjust your expectations
Can’t believe he was in the finals like 9 seasons in a row, wasn’t it? In itself that’s quite a feat that might never get replicated
this aint the weak East no mo
He also ain’t 29 no more lol
he's had a losing playoff record vs. West teams his whole career even if we look at him pre turning 30
Because he only played the best West teams lol. If he was in the West his entire career playing teams like the Blazers and Jazz in the 1st round he’d obviously have a higher win%
Probably half the finals appearances though
And 0 finals losses
Point proven for how stupid an argument finals losses is. If anything it should be a positive that Lebron has lost the last 4 years because that means no more finals losses. Right?
Better than MJ then
There's no telling. It's all hypothetical. So maybe let's drop this fantasy talk.
who knows? West aint a forgiving conference. and he'd still have to play more elite teams just to get to the Finals
Wouldn't have mattered.
Peak Lebron instead of 39 year old definitely wins the series against the nuggets lol
When was the last time the blazers made the finals? 1990?
More importantly he won the coveted in season tournament
When you make 9 finals in a decade it becomes a unfair standard and unrealistic expectation many individuals will hold you to and expect it of you every season and somehow hold it against you and your legacy if it doesn't. To make 8 straight finals in a major league of a team sport is one of the most or the most unappreciated achievement in the modern era of pro sports as many of us will understandably never understand just how hard it is to make he finals once let alone 8 times and as the team leader each time. The fact something like this is even discussed as hes approaching 40 just shows the ridiculous level of scrutiny Lebron faces. What really should be discussed is the fact a 39 year old is still playing at a MVP level and the best player on the team...
So we discredited his legacy because he made the finals so much but lost so much and now hes being discredited for not making the finals at all
Still the best basketball player of all time.
Because it’s the west. Eastern conference has usually been extremely top heavy which makes it much much easier to get to the finals
Lebron is in a league of his own. His legacy is cemented and only grows year by year. Most these guys will never get to one Finals, let alone god knows how many he’s gotten to, while carrying the load. 40 years old, still scoring 25,8,8. He’s unbelievable.
That’s kinda crazy
I guess this is the flip side of the stupid "first player with 27 points, 45 slurpees and 3 paper clips in a game since Art Duncanson in 1827" stats
LeWashed /s
Damn this just makes me sad, if you told me this fact 4 years ago I would have naturally assumed it was cause he had fallen off like every other player his age. The fact that he has been putting in these amazing seasons on such poorly constructed teams is a shame, even if he shares a lot of the blame for that.
It's amusing when you look back at the 2010s, the eastern conference was in shambles, LeBron and Bosh cowardliness literally killed the whole conference, 35 wins was already enough to contend for a 8th seed spot in the east. It was also the start of the soft generation, the rules prohibiting contact, etc.. luckily the west remained competitive, they were able to stop LeBron on his tracks. I hope the NBA recover eventually, bring back physicality, limit the formation of "super teams" and so on
LeStans about to downvote you into oblivion for the truth
Retire already ffs
Why?
Western Conference
Lebron James is overrated - does anyone still think he’s the goat?
God is great 🙏🏽
What? You mean to tell me, he went West where there was competition and didn't get to the finals every year Almost as if he played in an awful conference for more than a decade and cake walked into the finals #Greatness
He’s played in the eastern conference most of his career that plays a big factor to his consistency. Since maybe 1999 after the bulls era, the league has been Western conference dominant. Here and there you get East to win some. It’s hard with win and NBA championship let alone get to the finals. If he was on a west team early in his career who knows if he’d have all those appearances.
That's a dumb what-if game, though, because we don't know who would have been on that west team with him. There are way too many scenarios to ever consider "what if," including a scenario where he lands on a well managed team and has more rings than he does today.
Fans of Lebron's 4-6 finals record should be shook. Him making it 10 times is a lot less impressive when you find out only one year was in the west
But then he wouldn't have lost 6 times in the finals and so it cancels out
Ohhhh, he wouldn't lose any wins either? 🤣
If the east is as bad as everyone says it was then no
Very true. Weak conference merchant.
Gentlemen Swept in the 1st round of the playoffs….add that to his legacy.
As the oldest player in the league averaging 25/8/8, yes add that to his legacy indeed
Glazed while losing the classic 4-6 special
What should we add to yours? Left a spicy reddit comment?