QUESTION: Why was a foul called on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander on last sequence after contact was made with the ball first and what did you see on the review that would suggest otherwise?
BROTHERS: During the review we saw that Shai (Gilgeous-Alexander) initially starts on the ball, but then he slides off of it and clearly makes illegal contact with (P.J.) Washington’s arm while he still has control of the ball and is in the act of shooting. Since the ball was not dislodged by the contact, the ensuing contact to the arm is illegal. Had the ball been dislodged when Shai hit it, the contact afterwards would have been deemed marginal, which did not happen here.
Not really. 3 free throws with 2.5 seconds left and no timeouts to advance the ball? Or 2 points with 3 seconds left and a time out to advance to their half.
Only matters if he goes against the Mavs in this case cause he historically kinda hates Cuban.
At least that's the narrative Mavs fan like to tell themselves.
It’s obvious that that’s what happened, but the rules can be ambiguous at times. I’ve seen that foul get overturned, iirc the announcers thought it wasn’t a foul originally because he hit ball first.
Then you also have to factor in the fact that you’ll have no idea what a reffing crew led by Tony brothers will rule, especially with the option to either end or extend the series (depending on your POV).
From what I understand about the rules, they made the right call, and I was surprised they made that call.
A foul on a three against MPJ by one of the Minnesota players was overturned on review in the exact same situation, except contact with the ball was even less than what Shai did. It's definitely not being called consistently.
In fact, there is no rule that contacting the ball first even matters. Rule 12B section 1.b.5
>Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player’s speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm.
Elsewhere in rule 12 it clarifies that the hand is part of the ball if it is in contact with the ball. That's all that is mentioned and the two do not interact with each other. Brothers might have just assumed that if the ball was knocked free the hit to the forearm wouldn't affect Washington's speed/wicked/etc. but that seems unlikely given it probably would affect his ability to try to recover the ball.
Definitely wasn't obvious what the interpretation was supposed to be given how often its called the other way or how similar "ball first contact after" plays get officiated but the clarifications all make a ton if sense and it was a great call live.
What’s is the cardinal sin of defending 3’s ? DO NOT ever foul a 3 point shooter, especially when it’s a desperation 3 that ends your season at the free throw line. Just a dumb play and he will have to live with.
No one is saying it, but Shai looked gassed in the 4th quarter. He was initiating switches the first 3 quarters, but in the 4th, passing the ball as soon as he got across the timeline. He also had times where he was guarding no one. Shai left that shot wide open and had to flail to contest because of it.
They tested him for a while in the 3rd(?) too. He had to be tired from carrying his team. Anyways, this looks like it’s going to be a fun rivalry in the years to come
> I guess it was like a bit of a hail mary?
I think so. It's also the type of play where if he hadn't challenged it, fans in the game thread would probably be losing their minds.
Yeah 100% , people would be going crazy if he didn’t since many didnt know the rule about needing to dislodge the ball. Obviously not challenging is better in this situation and he’s not making decisions based on social media opinions. Probably a desperation move
But is was a clear foul. PJ was shooting extremely bad from the line, so he could’ve just tied the game even. At the worst they would need a 2 to tie. 2.5 is enough to get a decent shot in.
Yea even if the Thunder coaching staff had time to view the replay, there's always a chance the ref disagrees and says the ball came loose a tiny bit and the contact was incidental. Even a 10% chance of getting the call overturned is still probably your best opportunity
Not sure if they would count Kyrie's putback off that attempt if the challenge was successful. That would still out them up. But either way, Dallas would have the ball. Wouldve preferred the timeout to just advance the ball and draw up a play
wouldnt have awarded the putback
it wouldve been Mavs ball thats true. but Thunder up by 1 and Mavs have < 3 seconds to score.
Thunder would take that scenario over being down instead and having < 3 seconds to score with a timeout
Maybe but considering they blew a 16 point lead in the final half, not betting on their offense to generate a good shot and actually hit it was the right call imo
People who thought it wasn't a foul: I could have made a better call in a split second without the benefit of replay or different camera angles!
People who thought it was a foul: I could have made a better call in a split second without the benefit of replay or different camera angles!
QUESTION: Why was a foul called on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander on last sequence after contact was made with the ball first and what did you see on the review that would suggest otherwise? BROTHERS: During the review we saw that Shai (Gilgeous-Alexander) initially starts on the ball, but then he slides off of it and clearly makes illegal contact with (P.J.) Washington’s arm while he still has control of the ball and is in the act of shooting. Since the ball was not dislodged by the contact, the ensuing contact to the arm is illegal. Had the ball been dislodged when Shai hit it, the contact afterwards would have been deemed marginal, which did not happen here.
Good explanation, correct call. It sucks but we should have never been in this last-second position to begin with.
Kyrie got the rebound regardless. The foul call did OKC a favor
Not really. 3 free throws with 2.5 seconds left and no timeouts to advance the ball? Or 2 points with 3 seconds left and a time out to advance to their half.
>3 free throws with 2.5 seconds left There would've been like 1-1.5 left at most with the Kyrie putback
No one forced a challenge
Yep, throwing the timeout away for that challenge was such a rookie move.
You didn’t need to waste the timeout lmao
Risky move for sure but not a waste considering they’ve overturned calls like that this season
Show me one I’m curious
They called a foul on buddy hield against Jaylen Brown when he hit the ball then his head but pacers challenged and the call was overturned.
Send da video
Lmao child, can’t even use google.
I mean fuck Tony Brothers he absolutely sucks, but that seems like a pretty good and succinct explanation
Oh Tony Brothers? Enough said.
Is he wrong or right?
He couldn’t be more right. Not sure why it being Tony Brothers matters
Only matters if he goes against the Mavs in this case cause he historically kinda hates Cuban. At least that's the narrative Mavs fan like to tell themselves.
Hes 100% correct
Varies from game to game 🤷🏽♂️
Wasn't obvious? Shai couldn't strip the ball & made clear contact on all of PJ's arm
It’s obvious that that’s what happened, but the rules can be ambiguous at times. I’ve seen that foul get overturned, iirc the announcers thought it wasn’t a foul originally because he hit ball first. Then you also have to factor in the fact that you’ll have no idea what a reffing crew led by Tony brothers will rule, especially with the option to either end or extend the series (depending on your POV). From what I understand about the rules, they made the right call, and I was surprised they made that call.
A foul on a three against MPJ by one of the Minnesota players was overturned on review in the exact same situation, except contact with the ball was even less than what Shai did. It's definitely not being called consistently. In fact, there is no rule that contacting the ball first even matters. Rule 12B section 1.b.5 >Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player’s speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm. Elsewhere in rule 12 it clarifies that the hand is part of the ball if it is in contact with the ball. That's all that is mentioned and the two do not interact with each other. Brothers might have just assumed that if the ball was knocked free the hit to the forearm wouldn't affect Washington's speed/wicked/etc. but that seems unlikely given it probably would affect his ability to try to recover the ball.
Definitely wasn't obvious what the interpretation was supposed to be given how often its called the other way or how similar "ball first contact after" plays get officiated but the clarifications all make a ton if sense and it was a great call live.
If only Shai was a pacer and his jersey said Nembard on the back, then the contact would’ve been marginal
The ball wasn't knocked loose. (If it had been knocked loose, then the contact on the arm would've been OK.)
What’s is the cardinal sin of defending 3’s ? DO NOT ever foul a 3 point shooter, especially when it’s a desperation 3 that ends your season at the free throw line. Just a dumb play and he will have to live with.
No one is saying it, but Shai looked gassed in the 4th quarter. He was initiating switches the first 3 quarters, but in the 4th, passing the ball as soon as he got across the timeline. He also had times where he was guarding no one. Shai left that shot wide open and had to flail to contest because of it.
They tested him for a while in the 3rd(?) too. He had to be tired from carrying his team. Anyways, this looks like it’s going to be a fun rivalry in the years to come
I agree but Kyrie made the put back. Don’t get me wrong maybe if he doesn’t foul the ball bounces a different way but will not the end all.
Dumb challenge.
Must be inexperience from the coach of the year. He should have known that rule.
He knew the rule I think. I guess it was like a bit of a hail mary? He should’ve probably trusted more in his guys to score with 2.5 left.
> I guess it was like a bit of a hail mary? I think so. It's also the type of play where if he hadn't challenged it, fans in the game thread would probably be losing their minds.
Yeah 100% , people would be going crazy if he didn’t since many didnt know the rule about needing to dislodge the ball. Obviously not challenging is better in this situation and he’s not making decisions based on social media opinions. Probably a desperation move
Think he forgot it because of the high stakes situation. Goes on to show everyone needs to be clutch in these moments and not only the players
I don't think he forgot, I think you just go for it even if there's a small chance of it being overturned
You don't need a very high chance of it being overturned for it to be worth it. The chance of you scoring with 2.5s on an inbound is pretty low
2.5 seconds is plenty of time to get a good shot a from mid court
Agree. Not to mention, OkC seemed to have a ridiculous points per possession with ATOs, all series.
Whereas in the off-chance the challenge worked, they’d have the lead. Calling for the challenge was the right choice.
But is was a clear foul. PJ was shooting extremely bad from the line, so he could’ve just tied the game even. At the worst they would need a 2 to tie. 2.5 is enough to get a decent shot in.
Yea even if the Thunder coaching staff had time to view the replay, there's always a chance the ref disagrees and says the ball came loose a tiny bit and the contact was incidental. Even a 10% chance of getting the call overturned is still probably your best opportunity
Exactly. They likely go home regardless, why not give it a go? It’s not like he’s gonna be saving it for next game lol
Burned their timeout and couldn’t advance. Very dumb
It led to the dumbest challenge in NBA history (short history)
Yup. Even if you win that challenge, Kyrie had the follow up and you would still lose the ability to advance the ball with a timeout
if you win the challenge you still have the lead and dont give up free throws not sure what you're implying
Not sure if they would count Kyrie's putback off that attempt if the challenge was successful. That would still out them up. But either way, Dallas would have the ball. Wouldve preferred the timeout to just advance the ball and draw up a play
wouldnt have awarded the putback it wouldve been Mavs ball thats true. but Thunder up by 1 and Mavs have < 3 seconds to score. Thunder would take that scenario over being down instead and having < 3 seconds to score with a timeout
Tbf, with 2 seconds left in the series and the opponent about to shoot 3 free throws if he didn’t, there was literally no harm in giving it a shot lol
It used their last time out which didn’t let them advance the ball. 2.5 isn’t a ton of time but a ton more likely from mid court than full court
Maybe but considering they blew a 16 point lead in the final half, not betting on their offense to generate a good shot and actually hit it was the right call imo
Did you watch the end of the game? SGA was getting good looks almost every time.
Shai only took 4 shots in the fourth. He wasn’t even looking for shots. If you go back and rewatch, he became a spectator
They deserve it for banking game on a challenge
Great call
People who thought it wasn't a foul: I could have made a better call in a split second without the benefit of replay or different camera angles! People who thought it was a foul: I could have made a better call in a split second without the benefit of replay or different camera angles!