Hartenstein would easily be the best big on our roster. Our other centers are duren who is a long way away, and James fucking Wiseman. I don’t think having 2 serviceable centers on a roster is a bad idea
Wiseman is a free agent too and I doubt we bring him back unless it’s on a really small deal to be a third string. We only have one center signed on our roster, not sure how we got the narrative that we have a bunch of centers on our roster. Rim protecting center is one of our biggest needs
Brother, have you been here? We have smokeshows like you wouldn't believe...But we also have the worst of the worst when it comes to toothless methheads
She's an Oklahoma smokeshow
He's an asshole from back home
She'll never make it out alive
Of that small-town bar scene
Where small vices kill your big dreams
He'd take you home, but he's too drunk to drive
For that amount of money, they'd deal with it if it was their best offer. She can fly around while he's on road trips. Being really rich in a place is much different than being the average person in a place. I'm no fan of Orlando but a flight or (soon) a train to Miami is pretty quick from Orlando.
I feel like whoever is going to pay him $20M is gonna regret it since he’s pretty much just a guy that you need next to 6 or 7 much more talented people.
So unless everyone is already acquired and paid… he’s going to take a spot that ought to be going towards a higher skilled player.
Happens with mid C’s every offseason though so idk.
It's crazy how top heavy the Center position is. Like they're all either All-Star MVP or near playoff unplayable.
These true mid tier good guys are all gonna get paid.
I'm higher on Hartenstein than most. I still cry over the Nuggets letting him walk for nothing.
Mid centers are the hardest to value.
Gafford/Lively and Horford were the winning centers in the conference finals. If you’re outside the Jokic/Embiid/Bam/Sabonis/Gobert tier I’m not sure it’s worth paying double the price of Gafford
Hell I’m not even sure it’s worth it outside of Jokic/Embiid who can create their own offense. Warriors won chips with Looney at center. Unless the bigs are dominant offensively I think it’s better to spend the money on great guards and 2 way wings, kinda like Dallas has done.
Disagree. Thunder FO has been clear they want Chet at the 5. I don’t think they are gonna want to pay that much for a backup big and I don’t think Isaiah is gonna want to come off the bench.
I’d hate for you guys to lose Hart. I say that as someone who needs him back on the Lakers, but I love how much NY has embraced him and how y’all team just flows together.
25th/26th pick in an awful draft is not nearly as much certainty as Precious who is a really flexible backup 4/5 option. If he’s cheap, no reason not to re-sign him.
He’s also an RFA which usually means the team can get a pretty friendly deal.
Jalen Brunson was a 2nd round pick . Lmao . You can’t always judge by appearances alone . The league is filled with massive athletic freaks . There’s not enough of high character players who work through their slights . But they are in every draft . Jrue holiday . Brunson . Sengun . Sabonis . A ton I’m sure I’m missing .
25/26 is still not a range where you’re likely to find someone ready to contribute playoff minutes for even 10 minutes off the bench in their rookie year, plus they’re gonna have that pick anyway in case they somehow are ready.
The awful 2013 draft had Giannis. The legendary 2003 draft was pretty terrible after the 5th pick. Not only is it too early to judge how good a draft is but after the lottery it’s all kinda the same anyways
yeah i dont understand that sentiment. billions of people on the planet and one year the human race just stops producing elite athletes lol. generational anomalies are the only thing that dont pop up every year for obvious reasons
I think that is only because just extrapolate what people say about top end of the draft to the whole draft. I can understand no star potential in the draft - we generally have very few great talents every year. Variance is such that there will just be years where there is 0 players you can be decently certain are gonna be all stars. That said nobody in r/nba knows fuck all about 20+ draft picks
only the top 10 is “awful,” it’s honestly one of the better drafts for the rest of the first round. many guys who went mid first round in other drafts would go in the second round in this one. like precious for example lol, i can name you like 8 late first round projected prospects from this draft we would’ve taken over him.
what is the point of making any comments about late picks in a draft. there's always random ass guys who stand out and fit into teams and do well. precious himself was the 20th pick.
He's the 3rd string 4/5 though. Shouldn't get more than like 5-6 mil a year imo which is basically what he's paid now.
Only way they should resign him for more than that is if Hartenstein walks for nothing.
He had a pretty solid stretch February/March-ish when they were really down a lot of big men and Isaiah was struggling with a sore Achilles. But then he moved back down the rotation.
Hartenstein said he was willing to re-sign with the Clippers for peanuts. He might take a a small pay cut to say with the Villanova 3 and make it to the ECF/NBA Finals with NYK imo
They have the full Bird rights for OG, the early bird for I-Hart, so there's no issue extending those 2 except for the obvious desire to stay below the second apron. If they sign OG to about $36m/year and I-Hart to the max they can offer, that puts them at about $181M, which is $9m below the second apron for next season.
They also have a team option for about $25 mill on Bogdonavich, which I imagine they want to keep for next year both for depth and as a tradeable expiring...but they have that too if they absolutely need to jettison some salary.
They are likely not going to re-sign Precious...who honestly is not really in the rotation unless there's multiple losses in the frontcourt.
The OKC Thunder makes a lot of sense and they have the cap space.
They can plug him in at the 5 when they need to go big.
Chet will be their main small ball 5.
He'd definitely help their rebounding weaknesses. He's active enough on offense that he wouldn't wreck their spacing either. And he's the same age as SGA, fits their timeline.
Not only their rebounding, he's a fantastic passer in the short roll and has a good floater. That passing with OKC shooting and spacing could be lethal.
You can't defend a big with a floater and the ability to touch pass. Doesn't really matter whether they can shoot or not, nobody can block them literally or figuratively.
I just meant that he's still pretty young and they wouldn't need to be as concerned about age related decline during the contract. His physical prime should line up with SGA's physical prime.
Timeline and taxes are just a weird thing this Reddit over thinks. Kyrie, horrford, Hayward didn't match brown and Tatum's timeline and while that lineup never really worked out. It very likely let to current success.
The timeline should always be to try and win and surround assets with valuable players.
I agree with you for the most part but I think timeline is important when you have a top 5 player in their 20s. If you ignore timeline you end up like the Bucks who have surrounded late 20s Giannis with a mid 30s supporting cast, and he’ll almost assuredly ask out in a couple years.
OKC lost because the Mavs were shooting as if the rim was 2X big and the Thunder shooting like it was 2X small. We memorize the lobs but forget PJ Washington hitting 3s like it was warm ups.
It's also though that reminder that they BARELY had playoff experience as a whole. I feel that they beat the Mavs if they shot like the regular season Thunder, which they CLEARLY did not (again, they are basically 1-4 year players w/out experience).
I'd hate for their offseason success to be if they got a big vs replacing their bench with actual hardened vets who can lead them through the playoffs
Presti’s comments in the end of year conference line up with this. He said that Chet and JWill only played together for 2.5% of the season, and that was on purpose. They’re not going to abandon small ball because they got out-shot by the conference champions.
They also have bench space so I think they’ll fill out the bench rather than trading it.
I agree but also who should they have made a move for? The only clear one available was outbidding the Pacers for Siakam, I don’t think there were any other great 4s on the market this time. Making a move just to make one might have been more damaging in the long-term.
I like his fit for them, but not for $100 mill in future cap space if they don’t plan on making Chet a 4 full-time and want to keep 5 out spacing for SGA. There are also decent centers they could trade for who don’t cost $100 mill, and better ones like Allen. And cheaper options in FA who rebound and shoot better like Jalen Smith.
They did better against the Mavs than the TWolves did, I like Hartenstein but I don’t think adding him wins them that series. They need Jalen and Chet to get better and/or add a bigger piece. You can get rebounding and size for cheaper.
There is zero chance Chet will primarily be a 4. A top 5 offense and defense were built around him at 5. I think a big 4 is way more likely than a big 5. Hartenstein isn’t getting paid $100 million to come off the bench.
Yeah they have the cap space now, but over the lifetime of that contract they will have a lot of key players due for big raises and $20-25mil in years 3-4 for the backup center seems like a bad idea if they want to maintain cap flexibility and/or add a second star to pair with SGA over the next two seasons.
Which would be so so dumb. Good FOs and coaches must understand that good teams need to be able to win in many different ways. Marrying to a single style of winning is usually not a good idea.
Getting iHart means they get the option to play differently
100 million bucks, he's not starting over Robinson when he's healthy again, and OKC was the 1 seed in the West.
Are you trying to say the Thunder are a downgrade from the Knicks?
I think he's pretty solidified as the starting moving forward. While the team is definitely intrigued by the idea of Mitch and OG on the floor at the same time, the dynamic that was opened up by Hartenstein being in the starting unit clearly showed a lot more. Plus less minutes on Mitch's body wouldn't hurt.
Also I'd argue his role next to Chet is less secure than his role next to Mitch, given Chet's trajectory. Not that it necessarily matters if he's making 20m dollars more.
He could start together with Chet in theory, or even if not start, still play alongside Chet for long stretches of the game. But of course defensively I’m not sure about their fit, Thunder would for sure want to keep Chet as the rim protector and I don’t know if Hartenstein can guard wings on the perimeter.
OKC is an interesting fit. Hurts their spacing a bit but he’d mesh pretty seamlessly on offense aside from that, while adding rim protection and rebounding. I just don’t know that asking Chet to stretch to the perimeter on defense is the best long-term solution— I’d rather try to get a big rebounding wing and hold onto that five-out identity
Knicks ideally want him to sign a 1+1 so they can get his full Bird rights then give him the big contract after. It's up to Isaiah if he wants to run it back on a 1+1 or cash out and get paid now.
It would make sense for him to like NY. They have a ton of synergy and one of the most dedicated guards of the year.
Or maybe he just trying to get that cash. Either way it's a smart move for him as an individual.
2 very different players. Mitch is a defense big, that’s pretty much all he can provide that and some O boards. He comes up huge against games vs embiid and other big name bigs holding them down.
On the other hand ihart gels more with the team on offense.. has a weird inside the arc floater game and can get you buckets, rebounds. His defense while not bad does not compare to what Mitch can do. Personally I’d take ihart because Mitch is more injury prone and while his defense is elite he provides less options for the team in the floor.
I was cringing the other day reading Knicks fans on Twitter saying that $72M would be an acceptable overpay for him.
People just haven't adjusted their thinking to what the rising cap means. A starting-caliber player is worth $20M/year as a baseline now.
I’ve always thought we should just discuss this in terms of % of the cap. Discussing $$ amounts when they keep skyrocketing just muddies the water. Discussing in % of cap would make comparisons way easier.
For sure, but for the media's purposes, "$20M a year contract" is always going to be a more interesting headline/tweet than "15% of the cap contract" even if the latter is more relevant for actually trying to figure out player values.
yeah starting at 16 is below his value. ideally the knicks present him w the 4 72 and more flexible options like a 2+1PO version of that. okc and orlando make sense from the outset of the offseason. we’ll see how far vibes go if there’s potential for nearly 30m more over 4.
I remember even when Brunson was signing people got so hung up on the $100M price as if that was a huge sum of money he hadn’t proven he was worth… he was like the 16th highest paid PG lol.
Obviously he has proven worth way more than that in hindsight but even at the time it was like people didn’t realize his deal only paid him like an average starter.
It's actually gonna keep going up at roughly the same rate -- 10 percent a year -- because they implemented cap smoothing this time.
But a 10 percent a year increase still adds up quick.
I mean he did say that Hartenstein was a lock for MIP last year which was pretty delusional. And that he’d win the starting job from Robinson within the first 2 months of last season (which even now isn’t a sure thing).
But yes he was definitely onto something
Is it really a hit when year after year he says the dude is a literal MVP caliber player, only for him to again just be a solid role player lol?
Also said Edwards would bust, Lamelo would bust, Wiseman would be a star, Jonah Bolden would be a star...
Dude's the definition of broken clock is right twice a day
Dallas and New York both are showing how centers can bring you success. People scoff at Rudy Gobert’s salary but funnily enough the Wolves also reached the final 4. The Knicks would have too if healthy.
Centers are going to go from the most underpaid position to rightfully compensated for key defensive/rebounding presence.
In 2024 basketball is painful to watch when there aren’t skilled centers out on the floor.
It seriously pissed me off how little Cuban and Nelson valued centers in the late Dirk years/early Luka years.
>Dallas and New York both are showing how centers can bring you success
>It seriously pissed me off how little Cuban and Nelson valued centers in the late Dirk years/early Luka years
Ironic that Tyson Chandler was a starter for both the best Mavs and the best Knicks teams of the last 20 years.
Really only like 2. OG and Hartenstein. Burks can come back on the min if he wants. Same with Precious
Dream off-season is to re-sign iHart and OG, Sign a bench guard/wing on the MLE, get Brunson extended on that 4/$156m
That’s the goal, and I think the dream is to trade bojan and a ton of picks for another starting wing. Targets ranging from mikal to a Pels wing. It’s time to strike while the iron is hot
If he ends up getting like a $85M offer, we can’t really fault him for leaving us. This is business at the end of the day and no one is leaving $10M+ on the table
because the knicks only signed him to a 2 year contract which only gives them early bird rights and thus limits how much over the cap they can go over for him. If they had signed him to a 3 year contract, they would have full bird rights and offer him more.
That's not the problem, the title is just worded poorly, or the author doesn't understand Bird rights.
His contract is limited because the Knicks will be over the cap, not because of his Bird rights. Other teams can sign him to more because they have actual cap room to sign him to those deals.
Bird rights allow the Knicks to go over the cap to sign him, and the size of the contract is limited by the types of Bird rights the player falls under.
Bird rights (afaik) are strictly advantageous. As the players current team, it gives them the option to resign him (which they would not otherwise have if they were over the cap), the size of the contract is just not an unlimited amount.
> The Knicks will be limited to offering their center a four-year, $72.5 million deal because of his early Bird rights
Really \^inaccurate, better phrasing would be:
> The Knicks would not normally be able to resign Hartenstein because of their cap situation, but because of his early bird rights, they get the opportunity to offer him up to $72.5 million
It’s hard for guys to find a role with teams and he has a huge one with the Knicks. I could see him taking the 2 million a year discount if he only gets offers for 80 million.
Reminds me when people claimed austin Reaves was going to get a 100+ m contract as a restricted free agent. That at the least the spurs would offer him 4 yr 84 mil.
He ended up 4 yr 54 mil, 2 mil less than the max the lakers could offer him.
25 million from OKC would make sense if their ownership is willing to go way above the apron 4 years from now for a 5th/6th man. If not, they should use their picks to keep stockpiling talent and spend internal or for a top 10 guy.
I’d much rather go with option 2
It's wild how many fans still can't comprehend salaries in 2024 due to the continually increasing salary cap. Super max players are on the verge of making *$80 million* per year. So no, $20 mil for a role player isn't crazy.
porjected
but what is porzingis porjected
Kristpas Prozingis
Am I pergnat?
I was porjected from the restaurant once they realized I couldn’t pay my bill
OKC, Magic and Pistons are mentioned as possible suitors. Fischer also says that other possible options will be available when the offseason starts.
Have the Pistons considered not going for an all-center lineup next year?
Hartenstein would easily be the best big on our roster. Our other centers are duren who is a long way away, and James fucking Wiseman. I don’t think having 2 serviceable centers on a roster is a bad idea
Wiseman is a free agent too and I doubt we bring him back unless it’s on a really small deal to be a third string. We only have one center signed on our roster, not sure how we got the narrative that we have a bunch of centers on our roster. Rim protecting center is one of our biggest needs
Is Duren that far away? His stats looked very solid for a 20 year old, but I didn't watch much Pistons.
He’s awesome and my favorite player but he doesn’t really help us win games with his current defense and lapses of focus
Is Duren not considered a big? I swear that dude was doing insane mid season
thankfully I'm not sure if Hartenstein and his supermodel wife will want to live in any of those cities
What, you don’t think she wants to be the prettiest girl in Oklahoma?
Brother, have you been here? We have smokeshows like you wouldn't believe...But we also have the worst of the worst when it comes to toothless methheads
And those smoke shows are married at 22 to now fat former high school football players
don't forget the somewhat overweight former single A baseball players (lmao)
Never been but there are Oklahoma smoke shows according to Zach Bryan
Any area with a major D1 university nearby is going to bring in some smokeshows.
She's an Oklahoma smokeshow He's an asshole from back home She'll never make it out alive Of that small-town bar scene Where small vices kill your big dreams He'd take you home, but he's too drunk to drive
I'm fairly confident meth heads congregate near professional basketball teams. We all have them and in large numbers.
On a per capita basis, Oklahoma has to be pretty high in the rankings. Former Oklahoman
As someone who’s visited OKC multiple times this is true.
What's wrong with Disney World?
too many lines
I'm sure Hartenstein can afford Genie+ 😅
That shit makes the lines worse dawg
For that amount of money, they'd deal with it if it was their best offer. She can fly around while he's on road trips. Being really rich in a place is much different than being the average person in a place. I'm no fan of Orlando but a flight or (soon) a train to Miami is pretty quick from Orlando.
Orlando is cool. But are the Magic a fit?
I think he ll take that right on the chin for when he’s making an extra 30 mil, has less income tax and life is just straight up cheaper
Okc needs this guy the most.
I feel like whoever is going to pay him $20M is gonna regret it since he’s pretty much just a guy that you need next to 6 or 7 much more talented people. So unless everyone is already acquired and paid… he’s going to take a spot that ought to be going towards a higher skilled player. Happens with mid C’s every offseason though so idk.
He fits significantly better on the Knicks than many teams in the nba .
It's crazy how top heavy the Center position is. Like they're all either All-Star MVP or near playoff unplayable. These true mid tier good guys are all gonna get paid. I'm higher on Hartenstein than most. I still cry over the Nuggets letting him walk for nothing.
Mid centers are the hardest to value. Gafford/Lively and Horford were the winning centers in the conference finals. If you’re outside the Jokic/Embiid/Bam/Sabonis/Gobert tier I’m not sure it’s worth paying double the price of Gafford
Hell I’m not even sure it’s worth it outside of Jokic/Embiid who can create their own offense. Warriors won chips with Looney at center. Unless the bigs are dominant offensively I think it’s better to spend the money on great guards and 2 way wings, kinda like Dallas has done.
I know he would help our rebounding but we need shooting too. Hope we don’t go for him.
Okc would be a perfect fit for both parties
Disagree. Thunder FO has been clear they want Chet at the 5. I don’t think they are gonna want to pay that much for a backup big and I don’t think Isaiah is gonna want to come off the bench.
How the heck are the Knicks gonna re-sign Hartenstein, Anunoby and Achiuwa? That's like 70m per season for those three.
do they want to re-sign achiuwa?
There’s literally no reason to re-sign Precious. Can definitely find someone in the draft that’s cheaper.
Re-sign Precious if we lose iHart and we don't have to overpay. Otherwise, the Knicks are not in a rush.
Use promo code ihart to get 20% off your first year of the achiuwa contract
I know Precious has been a lot better with you guys than he was with us. But that’s a massive downgrade if it happens.
I’d hate for you guys to lose Hart. I say that as someone who needs him back on the Lakers, but I love how much NY has embraced him and how y’all team just flows together.
Not sure why he called him iHart but he was definitely talking about Hartenstein lol.
iHart is his nickname, since the team already has a Hart
His first name is Isaiah. Easier to spell out iHart than Hartenstein tbf.
Josh Hart is not in danger of losing his spot. It's Isaiah Hartenstein (iHart) who we might lose.
Idk, Precious is a very very good backup plus he knows his role in the Knicks. If you can keep him for cheap you do it.
All comes down to what he's going to get paid. If we could lock him up for McBride money, his defensive versatility alone justifies it.
25th/26th pick in an awful draft is not nearly as much certainty as Precious who is a really flexible backup 4/5 option. If he’s cheap, no reason not to re-sign him. He’s also an RFA which usually means the team can get a pretty friendly deal.
Its only called awful because of the lack of high end talent at the top of the draft. A lot of good potential roleplayers all throughout.
Jalen Brunson was a 2nd round pick . Lmao . You can’t always judge by appearances alone . The league is filled with massive athletic freaks . There’s not enough of high character players who work through their slights . But they are in every draft . Jrue holiday . Brunson . Sengun . Sabonis . A ton I’m sure I’m missing .
25/26 is still not a range where you’re likely to find someone ready to contribute playoff minutes for even 10 minutes off the bench in their rookie year, plus they’re gonna have that pick anyway in case they somehow are ready.
The awful 2013 draft had Giannis. The legendary 2003 draft was pretty terrible after the 5th pick. Not only is it too early to judge how good a draft is but after the lottery it’s all kinda the same anyways
Any time a draft gets called awful it always still produces great players.
yeah i dont understand that sentiment. billions of people on the planet and one year the human race just stops producing elite athletes lol. generational anomalies are the only thing that dont pop up every year for obvious reasons
One year they all stayed in school to cash NIL checks
I think that is only because just extrapolate what people say about top end of the draft to the whole draft. I can understand no star potential in the draft - we generally have very few great talents every year. Variance is such that there will just be years where there is 0 players you can be decently certain are gonna be all stars. That said nobody in r/nba knows fuck all about 20+ draft picks
only the top 10 is “awful,” it’s honestly one of the better drafts for the rest of the first round. many guys who went mid first round in other drafts would go in the second round in this one. like precious for example lol, i can name you like 8 late first round projected prospects from this draft we would’ve taken over him.
what is the point of making any comments about late picks in a draft. there's always random ass guys who stand out and fit into teams and do well. precious himself was the 20th pick.
Precious has actually been decent on the Knicks
only as a small ball 5, he's been about what Raptors fans have been saying about him whenever he plays the 4
It'd be interesting to see him next to randle though, that's for sure
He's the 3rd string 4/5 though. Shouldn't get more than like 5-6 mil a year imo which is basically what he's paid now. Only way they should resign him for more than that is if Hartenstein walks for nothing.
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He had a pretty solid stretch February/March-ish when they were really down a lot of big men and Isaiah was struggling with a sore Achilles. But then he moved back down the rotation.
They'll re-sign OG Sounds like they'll be priced out of Hartenstein Which then means that they could probably keep Achiuwa, but do they want to?
Hartenstein said he was willing to re-sign with the Clippers for peanuts. He might take a a small pay cut to say with the Villanova 3 and make it to the ECF/NBA Finals with NYK imo
precious isnt a must keep...
achiuwa will come back for cheap or not at all
Our 2 all stars have really team friendly contracts
They have the full Bird rights for OG, the early bird for I-Hart, so there's no issue extending those 2 except for the obvious desire to stay below the second apron. If they sign OG to about $36m/year and I-Hart to the max they can offer, that puts them at about $181M, which is $9m below the second apron for next season. They also have a team option for about $25 mill on Bogdonavich, which I imagine they want to keep for next year both for depth and as a tradeable expiring...but they have that too if they absolutely need to jettison some salary. They are likely not going to re-sign Precious...who honestly is not really in the rotation unless there's multiple losses in the frontcourt.
The OKC Thunder makes a lot of sense and they have the cap space. They can plug him in at the 5 when they need to go big. Chet will be their main small ball 5.
He'd definitely help their rebounding weaknesses. He's active enough on offense that he wouldn't wreck their spacing either. And he's the same age as SGA, fits their timeline.
Not only their rebounding, he's a fantastic passer in the short roll and has a good floater. That passing with OKC shooting and spacing could be lethal.
That fucking floater was destroying us at times.
Have you met SGA? It just doesn't miss. Frustrating as hell.
I haven’t met him, no, but he seems like a chill dude
was so annoying, would look like it has no shot and its all net
His floater is better than just “good”, I don’t think it’d be far fetched to say he had the best floater of any big man in the league
Jokic is the best, but Isiah played with Jokic a hot minute so I'm sure something rubbed off.
You can't defend a big with a floater and the ability to touch pass. Doesn't really matter whether they can shoot or not, nobody can block them literally or figuratively.
Yeah, he just gobbles up offensive rebounds. They were really missing that against the Mavs.
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I just meant that he's still pretty young and they wouldn't need to be as concerned about age related decline during the contract. His physical prime should line up with SGA's physical prime.
Timeline and taxes are just a weird thing this Reddit over thinks. Kyrie, horrford, Hayward didn't match brown and Tatum's timeline and while that lineup never really worked out. It very likely let to current success. The timeline should always be to try and win and surround assets with valuable players.
I agree with you for the most part but I think timeline is important when you have a top 5 player in their 20s. If you ignore timeline you end up like the Bucks who have surrounded late 20s Giannis with a mid 30s supporting cast, and he’ll almost assuredly ask out in a couple years.
OKC lost because the Mavs were shooting as if the rim was 2X big and the Thunder shooting like it was 2X small. We memorize the lobs but forget PJ Washington hitting 3s like it was warm ups. It's also though that reminder that they BARELY had playoff experience as a whole. I feel that they beat the Mavs if they shot like the regular season Thunder, which they CLEARLY did not (again, they are basically 1-4 year players w/out experience). I'd hate for their offseason success to be if they got a big vs replacing their bench with actual hardened vets who can lead them through the playoffs
Presti’s comments in the end of year conference line up with this. He said that Chet and JWill only played together for 2.5% of the season, and that was on purpose. They’re not going to abandon small ball because they got out-shot by the conference champions. They also have bench space so I think they’ll fill out the bench rather than trading it.
Literally the youngest team in NBA history to make the 2nd round. There’s such a double standard for OKC.
I agree but also who should they have made a move for? The only clear one available was outbidding the Pacers for Siakam, I don’t think there were any other great 4s on the market this time. Making a move just to make one might have been more damaging in the long-term.
I like his fit for them, but not for $100 mill in future cap space if they don’t plan on making Chet a 4 full-time and want to keep 5 out spacing for SGA. There are also decent centers they could trade for who don’t cost $100 mill, and better ones like Allen. And cheaper options in FA who rebound and shoot better like Jalen Smith. They did better against the Mavs than the TWolves did, I like Hartenstein but I don’t think adding him wins them that series. They need Jalen and Chet to get better and/or add a bigger piece. You can get rebounding and size for cheaper.
There is zero chance Chet will primarily be a 4. A top 5 offense and defense were built around him at 5. I think a big 4 is way more likely than a big 5. Hartenstein isn’t getting paid $100 million to come off the bench.
If it's a 4 year deal it really wont be bad at all in years 3 and 4 with the 10% cap increases.
Yeah they have the cap space now, but over the lifetime of that contract they will have a lot of key players due for big raises and $20-25mil in years 3-4 for the backup center seems like a bad idea if they want to maintain cap flexibility and/or add a second star to pair with SGA over the next two seasons.
Taking a guy for 100m to ride the pine is wild
They won't do it. OKC is addicted to playing small ball at all costs. It's like Presti addicted to hoarding picks.
Agree, they want the 5 out spacing. I also have a hard time believing they are going to commit $23-$25 annually to Chet's backup.
I honestly like Achiuwa as a fit more than Hartenstein. Chet needs to be guarding the 5 and Hartenstein or him being stuck on the 4 is a bad time.
Which would be so so dumb. Good FOs and coaches must understand that good teams need to be able to win in many different ways. Marrying to a single style of winning is usually not a good idea. Getting iHart means they get the option to play differently
Why would he want to take on a smaller role after he proved he could be a starting center on a conference finals level team?
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100 million bucks, he's not starting over Robinson when he's healthy again, and OKC was the 1 seed in the West. Are you trying to say the Thunder are a downgrade from the Knicks?
He is 100% starting over Robinson if he’s back next year regardless of health
No. I’m saying the role you described is smaller. And why would OKC pay a backup $100 million? That’s still starter money these days
I think he's pretty solidified as the starting moving forward. While the team is definitely intrigued by the idea of Mitch and OG on the floor at the same time, the dynamic that was opened up by Hartenstein being in the starting unit clearly showed a lot more. Plus less minutes on Mitch's body wouldn't hurt. Also I'd argue his role next to Chet is less secure than his role next to Mitch, given Chet's trajectory. Not that it necessarily matters if he's making 20m dollars more.
He could start together with Chet in theory, or even if not start, still play alongside Chet for long stretches of the game. But of course defensively I’m not sure about their fit, Thunder would for sure want to keep Chet as the rim protector and I don’t know if Hartenstein can guard wings on the perimeter.
It’s a bad fit. I don’t think the Thunder would be interested.
Really interested to see where he goes. Knicks really need him, just rough that they don’t have full Bird rights
OKC is the best fit and can outbid most teams
OKC is an interesting fit. Hurts their spacing a bit but he’d mesh pretty seamlessly on offense aside from that, while adding rim protection and rebounding. I just don’t know that asking Chet to stretch to the perimeter on defense is the best long-term solution— I’d rather try to get a big rebounding wing and hold onto that five-out identity
I hear you but it will be at least 2-3 years before Chet can really play that role full time. He needs the age and muscle
He played it full time this year (literally every game) and we had a top 5 defense
If Chet starts eating cheeseburgers like Zion he’ll be there in a year.
With OKC though, it's been rumoured they don't want anyone on deals longer than 2 years so when Chet/Jdub are on their extensions they have space.
Valanciunas might be a better fit in that case
Knicks ideally want him to sign a 1+1 so they can get his full Bird rights then give him the big contract after. It's up to Isaiah if he wants to run it back on a 1+1 or cash out and get paid now.
Can't do a 1+1 (team or player option) with early bird rights. The 2nd year can be non-guaranteed (that's a huge risk for the player though).
He hasn't made a lot of money in his career yet, that would be a huge risk when he can ink an $85M+ deal right now and he's set for generations.
It would make sense for him to like NY. They have a ton of synergy and one of the most dedicated guards of the year. Or maybe he just trying to get that cash. Either way it's a smart move for him as an individual.
Good for him. Most times all you need is some extra playing time to properly develop or show what you can do.
Agreed. He's improved so much already just in the last year.
Which big fits the team better and which do you prefer though? Him or M Robinson?
IHart easily. Mitch fucks our spacing and provides little to nothing on offense besides put back dunks.
2 very different players. Mitch is a defense big, that’s pretty much all he can provide that and some O boards. He comes up huge against games vs embiid and other big name bigs holding them down. On the other hand ihart gels more with the team on offense.. has a weird inside the arc floater game and can get you buckets, rebounds. His defense while not bad does not compare to what Mitch can do. Personally I’d take ihart because Mitch is more injury prone and while his defense is elite he provides less options for the team in the floor.
I really want iHart to stay but I can’t blame him if he takes the cash. Really enjoyed his time on the Knicks.
I was cringing the other day reading Knicks fans on Twitter saying that $72M would be an acceptable overpay for him. People just haven't adjusted their thinking to what the rising cap means. A starting-caliber player is worth $20M/year as a baseline now.
I’ve always thought we should just discuss this in terms of % of the cap. Discussing $$ amounts when they keep skyrocketing just muddies the water. Discussing in % of cap would make comparisons way easier.
For sure, but for the media's purposes, "$20M a year contract" is always going to be a more interesting headline/tweet than "15% of the cap contract" even if the latter is more relevant for actually trying to figure out player values.
It's hard to even do that now, since starting next summer the cap will be going up 10% every year.
yeah starting at 16 is below his value. ideally the knicks present him w the 4 72 and more flexible options like a 2+1PO version of that. okc and orlando make sense from the outset of the offseason. we’ll see how far vibes go if there’s potential for nearly 30m more over 4.
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it’s like people idea of cap space got stuck in 2013 lmao 4/80 is great role player money
I remember even when Brunson was signing people got so hung up on the $100M price as if that was a huge sum of money he hadn’t proven he was worth… he was like the 16th highest paid PG lol. Obviously he has proven worth way more than that in hindsight but even at the time it was like people didn’t realize his deal only paid him like an average starter.
Brunson’s deal looked fine when he signed it, then looked like a steal when Poole and I think Herro signed their’s latter the same offseason.
folks don't realize the cap has gone up 25% in the past 2-3 years, and is about to go up by a LOT more
It's actually gonna keep going up at roughly the same rate -- 10 percent a year -- because they implemented cap smoothing this time. But a 10 percent a year increase still adds up quick.
Still don’t get why the clippers let him walk
Yea that was a stupid move. They picked John Wall over him
or the cavs
Or the Nuggets.
Or the Rockets
EG 2/2
Man is an absolute legend who 99.99% of bball fans will never know about
He said Anthony Edwards would be a bust lol
I mean he did say that Hartenstein was a lock for MIP last year which was pretty delusional. And that he’d win the starting job from Robinson within the first 2 months of last season (which even now isn’t a sure thing). But yes he was definitely onto something
He's said more than just those two things but those are two huge hits tbh
he's had some misses but he stanned the hardest for Jokic and Hartenstein where he hit on both
Stanned for Jokic to the point of getting banned lol. True martyr for his guy
Is it really a hit when year after year he says the dude is a literal MVP caliber player, only for him to again just be a solid role player lol? Also said Edwards would bust, Lamelo would bust, Wiseman would be a star, Jonah Bolden would be a star... Dude's the definition of broken clock is right twice a day
Orlando plz
I think someone like donte would fit us much better compared to Hartenstein
Dallas and New York both are showing how centers can bring you success. People scoff at Rudy Gobert’s salary but funnily enough the Wolves also reached the final 4. The Knicks would have too if healthy. Centers are going to go from the most underpaid position to rightfully compensated for key defensive/rebounding presence. In 2024 basketball is painful to watch when there aren’t skilled centers out on the floor. It seriously pissed me off how little Cuban and Nelson valued centers in the late Dirk years/early Luka years.
Every team in the final 4 have capable centers, and 6/8 in rnd 2 had excellent center play.
>Dallas and New York both are showing how centers can bring you success >It seriously pissed me off how little Cuban and Nelson valued centers in the late Dirk years/early Luka years Ironic that Tyson Chandler was a starter for both the best Mavs and the best Knicks teams of the last 20 years.
Noooooooo!!!!!!!????? Not him!
Knicks gotta pay like 8 people lol
Really only like 2. OG and Hartenstein. Burks can come back on the min if he wants. Same with Precious Dream off-season is to re-sign iHart and OG, Sign a bench guard/wing on the MLE, get Brunson extended on that 4/$156m
That’s the goal, and I think the dream is to trade bojan and a ton of picks for another starting wing. Targets ranging from mikal to a Pels wing. It’s time to strike while the iron is hot
theyre underpaying Brunson Randle and DDV though, which should help
Kings 🤝 Knicks Unable to sign fan-favorites cuz of stupid cba rules
I think the rule makes sense, it must sucks when it bites your team.
What’s the reasoning for us being able to offer less money than everyone else?
It's so you can't get around the cap. Otherwise you could sign a player for a low amount to get their bird rights, then max their next contract.
But doesn’t it hurt the player who wants to stay in his current situation if all money could be equal?
you don't have the cap space...
iHart was willing to take the paycut for the Clips last time, hope he feels the same with the Knicks.
We’ll take that brightskin mfer
Yup Grizzlies would be a great fit
Knicks fans acting like he’s gonna take a massive pay cut because he “loves New York” is hilarious
He’s a winner. Grab his ass Rob.
If he ends up getting like a $85M offer, we can’t really fault him for leaving us. This is business at the end of the day and no one is leaving $10M+ on the table
It makes no sense to me that the rules would allow other teams to offer a bigger contract than the players current team.
because the knicks only signed him to a 2 year contract which only gives them early bird rights and thus limits how much over the cap they can go over for him. If they had signed him to a 3 year contract, they would have full bird rights and offer him more.
That's not the problem, the title is just worded poorly, or the author doesn't understand Bird rights. His contract is limited because the Knicks will be over the cap, not because of his Bird rights. Other teams can sign him to more because they have actual cap room to sign him to those deals. Bird rights allow the Knicks to go over the cap to sign him, and the size of the contract is limited by the types of Bird rights the player falls under. Bird rights (afaik) are strictly advantageous. As the players current team, it gives them the option to resign him (which they would not otherwise have if they were over the cap), the size of the contract is just not an unlimited amount. > The Knicks will be limited to offering their center a four-year, $72.5 million deal because of his early Bird rights Really \^inaccurate, better phrasing would be: > The Knicks would not normally be able to resign Hartenstein because of their cap situation, but because of his early bird rights, they get the opportunity to offer him up to $72.5 million
It’s hard for guys to find a role with teams and he has a huge one with the Knicks. I could see him taking the 2 million a year discount if he only gets offers for 80 million.
Reminds me when people claimed austin Reaves was going to get a 100+ m contract as a restricted free agent. That at the least the spurs would offer him 4 yr 84 mil. He ended up 4 yr 54 mil, 2 mil less than the max the lakers could offer him.
Porjected? More like richjected
25 million from OKC would make sense if their ownership is willing to go way above the apron 4 years from now for a 5th/6th man. If not, they should use their picks to keep stockpiling talent and spend internal or for a top 10 guy. I’d much rather go with option 2
Porjected
Nice! Get paid bro.
The little tear drop shot of his about to get him paid
Great last name for a Spur. Be great next to Wemby.
Can I offer you a KAT in these trying times?
KAT on the Knicks would be hella good for the knicks I feel though no? I'm not well read enough on the wolves lmai
Jokic of the East.
He’s improved a lot since his rocket days. Hope he gets a big payday.
STARTENSTEIN
I can’t believe we got rid of this guy and paid Zeke
Can the knicks clear some cap? I hope he stays healthy was awesome I honestly would trade Mitchell to maybe get some stuff on the sides and keep him
It's wild how many fans still can't comprehend salaries in 2024 due to the continually increasing salary cap. Super max players are on the verge of making *$80 million* per year. So no, $20 mil for a role player isn't crazy.
Someone get eg a fucking NBA job already the man knows ball
Get the bag Isaiah
Where is that guy from a few years ago who was saying Hartenstein was the next Jokic? It’s not over yet.
Good for him. Lived him when he was with the rockets. He didn’t get to play cause he was fucking the coaches wife 🤷♂️
John Wall and Clippers Lawrence Frank send their regards