Anyone who watches without hate can see he is not 100% and struggling to move. That frustrates him and that shows in form of whining and fouling but please stop acting like he didn't carry his team to the finals despite his defensive defects.
He's getting treated just like Lebron early in his career and people are acting like he's being crucified.
Dude dragged his team to the finals and got all the flowers for nearly a week. Media was having "took the greatest player alive from Jokic" conversations.
But being banged up doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs like he is. People are calling him out like every other superstar.
>But being banged up doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs like he is.
I agree. It doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs, and he deserves the criticism for that.
But there are way too many people who are claiming that Luka isn't injured at all and is "faking" an injury, which is just completely insane. He is clearly hobbled and is taking pain shots before every game.
Wrapped like a mummy and getting toradol shots. I think during the OKC series Luka was asked if this was the regular season he'd be playing and he said no.
Haters are a sad group of people lol, just doing mental gymnastics to continue fueling their hate. I started enjoying the NBA so much more after I just appreciated all the players and stopped hating.
People still claim Mahomes faked an ankle injury in the Super Bowl a few years ago to either avoid criticism for losing or look like a hero if they won. Honestly injury deniers are crazier than flat earthers in my book
Luka is definitely injured and I’ve been pointing that out in most Luka hate threads.
But exaggerating injuries (especially when you are losing) is as old as sports, so I’m not going to say injury deniers are crazier than flat earthers.
The Luka complaining criticisms are warranted, but this revisionist history about him not being a "winning player" despite all of the winning shit he's done every single year in the playoffs is just incredible.
Haha, yeah, that's always a good one. The amount of people who said Tatum wasn't a winner even though he's been to like 5 conference finals and 1 finals before this was just absurd. Of course Luka is a winning player! He carried in a bunch of playoff series that his team won. He doesn't have a ring at age 25 or whatever, but he is clearly a winning player. It's maddening that so many people suggest otherwise!
Let me clarify, you can find any small bucket of people putting crazy takes out there no matter the topic. Most of the time its trolls or crazy haters.
But there isn’t a common belief among rational people that he is faking injuries. He is getting literal injections to manage pain, it’s obviously real.
To be fair, that was, without a doubt one of the most one-sided, from a talent perspective, NBA finals in the modern era. That Spurs team was so so much more talented than that Cavs team. I still think back on that series sometimes and can't believe the cavs made it to the finals to begin with
The experience of the Spurs in the playoffs at that time was pretty impressive and their main trio was just hitting their prime as well. Coaching was top tier, they had all the advantages.
It’s the worst supporting cast in NBA Finals history. Even AI’s Sixers were significantly better. If Bron got drafted to even an average organization, he’d have crushed MJ’s six.
If the Mavs get swept tonight then Luka will follow LeBrons path. I remember when LeBron took the Cavs to the Finals and got swept by San Antonio. Felt bad for him, but Pop had a better team.
It was also the playoff year of Baron “Fucking” Davis that I will never get over as a Mavs fan.
Except Luka is three years older than Lebron was at that point. Lebron also didn't have anyone close to Kyrie's level. I am not sure these paths are all that similar.
Best friends and I were in HS about to go on a band trip to Chicago so we thought it would be a good idea to watch the game at my house since in the morning we’d all need to go to the airport. We were gonna have a fun time that night.
And then we lost.
It was a quiet night after that…
“He’s not moving at 100% so it’s okay that he dives to try and foul bait, along with complaining to refs all game”
I don’t get some of these posters lol.
Are we pretending that Luka hasn’t been complaining to refs his whole career? The complaining aspect isn’t new. The bad defense is definitely at a different level than before. Most of it is injury. Some of it is conditioning. Some of it is that he clearly doesn’t prioritize improving that part of his game.
He’s young and this will be a formative experience for him. I’d bet we see a better version of him next year.
Conditioning is definitely a large part of it. Do y'all remember like 20 games in last season when Luka admitted to the media during a slump that he was feeling exhausted? Has he made any noticeable changes in his diet or workout regiment?
He really does need to lose like 15-20 pounds this offseason. I know people argue that his weight helps him get inside, but the man can hit impossible fadeaways like no one else. He'll be fine, there's really no way to defend it. If Luka wants to play at an elite level in his mid 30s, he really needs to change some stuff up. It may take him 2 years to do it, but if he can replace those 15-20 pounds of fat and convert it to muscle, he'll be deadly.
It's definitely been a trend that's only getting worse each season. He was fine his rookie year and tolerable his 2nd year. I've always thought that Luka has the worst body language in the NBA, even worse than Lebron. He's one of the most exciting players to watch on offense in a long time and it's the reason why I watch a LOT of Mavs games. Everyone is laughing and high fiving but as soon as things aren't completely going his way, it all falls apart.
Luka could be my favorite player but his non-existent leadership and constant bitching at refs (which seems to be every other game I watch) always makes me question if he actually can be an all time great. Yes, Lebron was always a crybaby (I'm a Lebron hater) but even he was never this bad until late into his career, which I sort of give him the "Im too old for this shit" pass.
It's much easier to deal with an injury when you dictate the movement versus where you are reacting to someone. On offense, you can play to what you are still able to do relatively well. Where on defense, you don't get that luxury.
Ok, but letting your man blow past you because of injury is one thing. Luka in game 3 was fouling after they blew past him and was trying to just jump in front of the guy he was defending. Gilbert Arenas said it best: it's like 2k defense.
To me, the offensive end is where it's been most obvious that he's physically struggling. In Game 2, which is the one he was listed as questionable to play in leading up to the game, he was moving like a stiff 45 year old man at the Y who's still recovering from his last run 3 days ago. He was slow and ginger and careful and obviously consciously limiting himself in what kind of movements he made and what kind of attacks he employed. The fact that he was still able to put up 32-11-11 in that state (with 4 steals!) just speaks to what a generational talent he is.
Compare some highlights from the playoffs vs him during the season. He isn't moving nearly as well on offense either. Not much lift on his shots either.
Moving on offense != moving on defense. Different skills, different muscles, ect. It is harder on many levels to defend than to attack.
Luka needs to be better on defense, but the issue is not effort nor is it conditioning. It's frustration/mental mistakes, and injuries. Criticize him all you want for the former but I don't care to see much criticism of his effort.
I don't get how people think his conditioning could possibly be bad despite having just played an NBA season while having the highest usage rate in the league. How would that even make sense?
Luka isn't even chubby. It would be a feat of human physiology to have excess body fat while engaging in that level of activity. He's just really solidly built and is wearing an extra inch of padding under his jersey since his chest injury.
man there were two posseions on game 3 that he shoot a stepback a fell to the ground with no one near, he is hurt, he still playing good IMO,and boston would win even if he is at 80% so whatever, boston its just too god (things you can do when Brooklyn gifts you picks)
The hate blinds you to only focus on the results like too many others are. His movement is off on offense but he just still has other ways to score/facilitate and the team has no other option than for him to keep trying which even for elite healthy players that aren’t “fat” wears them down by the end of the game at that volume. People really should be talking about how good the Celtics are but that’s not how the internet works sadly so here we are finding weird stuff to hate on like him barely not getting his foot all the way down as a player barrels into him with elbow out. See I can slip into it too lol.
I'm not going to allow this revisionist history.
Did you not watch the first or second round of the playoffs? Did you not see how badly he performed in certain games where Kyrie stepped up to lead the team to a win?
Luka may be the best player on the Mavs and the primary reason they made it to the Finals, but he certainly did not "carry" them there
You are making a strawman argument…no one said Kyrie hasn’t been good throughout most of the playoffs, but the Mavs revolves around Luka….their whole identity is based on Luka’s gravity attacking the paint and finding wide open corner shooters or lob targets.
Kyrie certainly was a great 2nd offensive weapon and was a pressure release valve, but Luka absolutely carried this team to the finals. Did you conveniently forget all the games Kyrie was weak? He averaged 16 points in the 2nd round…Luka has consistently been the best player by far on the Mavs, and hell even in the playoffs as a whole. Great players are allowed to have scattered bad games..
Again, I am not saying Luka is not the best player on the Mavs and the primary reason they are in the Finals. But he is far from having "carried" this team into the Finals. Maybe it's a difference how we view the term, but carrying to me implies that Luka made it there in spite of other factors. But the reason he made it *is because his teammates stepped up when he was playing poorly*.
Examples:
Round 1 Game 3, Mavs win 101-90: Luka shoots 28% FGP and 21% from 3. Scores 22 points. Kyrie scores 21 but on much better shooting - 47% FGP and 43% from 3. Luka also has 5 TOs this game compared to Kyrie's 2. The Mavs won this game *in spite* of Luka, otherwise they likely go down 1-2 for the series.
While Luka had great overall stats the next 3 games, he shot a combined 4-27 from 3: 1-9, 2-8, 1-10. Kyrie, on the other hand, shot 12-28, with only a bad Game 5 performance of 1-7.
Round 2 Game 1: 32% FGP and 1-8 from 3, scoring 19 points. Mavs lose.
Round 2 Game 3: 22 points on 1-4 3PT shooting. Kyrie only scores 22 as well but makes clutch left-handed runner in the final minute to make it a 2 possession lead. PJ Washington leads team with 27 points. Without Kyrie and PJ stepping up and shooting much more efficiently, Mavs lose this game and go down in the series 1-2.
Round 2 Game 4: 30% FGP and 22% from 3, going 2-9 and 6-20 overall for 18 points. Mavs lose this game, and again, if Kyrie and PJ don't step up the prior game, Mavs would be in 1-3 hole.
It is just not true that Luka "carried" this team. He likely does not make it past the 1st or 2nd round without his teammates stepping up when he was not playing well.
You cherry picking 3 games proves nothing my man. He is the reason Washington, DJJ, Lively and Gafford have looked way better than they are as role players.
Sorry, this just is a bad take…Luka definitely carrier this team, regardless of a few bad games here and there, especially when he was most hobbled early on.
Dude, *he got carried by his team to avoid going down 1-2 in the first round and 1-3 in the second round.* I pretty conclusively proved it. Those games mattered *a ton.*
I'm not going to change your mind either way so I'm done 🤷♂️
Who even expected this Dallas team to end up in the finals? They are there due to Luka magic. He has been the best player for Dallas in every playoffs series. In fact, he has probably been the best player even when we compare Dallas and their opponent team in the playoffs up to this point. Despite being banged up we can argue he is still the best player in the finals. Boston just has too many weapons. For Dallas to win both Kyrie and Luka need to go crazy in the same game. That hasn't happened. Kyrie had 2 bad games. Luka had foul trouble in the last one.
I thought we will be taken out by the Clippers as usual but we won. Then we won again the next round, then won again. It fueled the thought “hey maybe we can win the finals with a team that was just put together, 2 rookies and a guy playing on 1 leg!”
I agree, I don’t think the whining and fouling is the issue - part of winning the finals is getting to that point and being conditioned enough to perform at the highest level that deep into the season. I think if there is anything Luka should take away from this run, it is the importance of conditioning.
It’s funny how fans pick and choose which ones deserve criticism for lack of defense bc of their offensive effort. It’s just a sliding scale in which each player is judged.
What you said can all be true but that doesn't really excuse or disprove some of the big stuff people are saying about him.
Him giving up on the entire defensive posession when his guy blows by him isn't a result of him being hobbled. It's a result of him not being engaged.
Him going on year 6 of constantly bitching to the refs isn't a result of him not being 100%. It's a result of who he has been as a player basically his entire NBA career.
TV execs are angry that this will be a short series and already have a bias against him. That’s why he’s getting dogged on like this and I’m not even defending what he did last game.
Yeah, and it's honestly a joke that the narrative has been trashing Luka instead of how unreal Boston is. I'm not even mad right now, nobody beating this team when they are locked in like this.
Yeah that can be a reason, but yelling and whining at everyone is still bitch shit. We get it dude, you think you’re the only one banged up? Only you get fouls called on you?
That he is unfairly judged based on playoff success when he’s (again according to Brunson) one of the most dominant players he’s played against who completely controls the game/pace/etc.
And he also refutes the stupid notion that Embiid “doesn’t care” about his lack of playoff success and things like that
Overall basically an Embiid hater’s 9/11 😁
Exactly that. It's Christmas. It's viewed as a day filled with joy and happiness. It's generally viewed as a good day, if not the best day of the year, by many. My 12/25 would be if the Mavs reverse sweep.
The opposite is 9/11. Day when the twin towers fell and a lot of people died. The opposite of what Christmas is. This would be my Mavs getting swept 4-0 which is very likely.
Yeah I mean the guy was crying after losing to the raptors and he was playing this year on one leg and half a face. Whatever you think about his playstyle he definitely wants to win a title
If Embiid wasn’t injured this year, I think there’s a strong chance they win that series and make it to ECF. I’m an Embiid hater, but he showed he can perform in the playoffs this year—he just really didn’t look right late in the series.
This sounds like you just want it to be an Embiid hater's 9/11 so that you can feel good about it lol. I'm an Embiid hater and 9/11 for that would be for him to get out of the 2nd round for once in his career lol. Though I don't think I need to be too worried about that.
Bro this is a Taylor Rooks sitdown interview, in what world is any player ever gonna talk shit about somebody else when asked a question about them instead of just diplomatically complimenting them while trying to come off as understanding and insightful?
What's he gonna say lol, "Embiid's a bum that crashes in the 4th and flames out in the second round every year?" yeah right bro can you imagine the sports media HURRICANE 🤣 Players do respect Embiid because they know how hard it is to stop him firsthand, dude's a giant and you gotta watch out because he's gonna be out there spinning and barreling into you with the force of a small grizzly bear. Maybe Brunson also feels a particular affinity with him as a fellow free throw merchant. Imagine if they teamed up, the Ornstein and Smough of free throw mercantilism.
To be fair isn't that almost what they did to Gobert? lol. They brought him up in the podcast and Brunson goes "That's the league's DPOY. Not my DPOY" and start talking about whether he can be DPOY if people want to attack and score on him. It just certainly wasn't totally praising him just because he got mentioned in a public conversation.
honestly he’s fully right. i’m a celtics fan and a jokic fan so i’m gonna give embiid plenty of shit but he’s easily a top 5 player, i’d probably put him \#3, and he gets shit even for this year where he genuinely played incredibly well in the playoffs. easily one of the most disrespected players in the league
Sure, because a player's opinion is 100% true and gospel. Brunson said it so Embiid magically didn't disappear in a lot of deciding games that 6ers lost in the second round. Why don't we just decide playoff games via player podcasts instead of playing the games?
Man, people would rather just hate Brunson too since he’s not trashing on his old teammate and friend. It’s honestly crazy how quick fans brought the knives out for Luka and anyone who associates with him. Wild times.
The whole Luka thing is weird because he has been visibly hurt for the entire playoffs. This whole run has been legendary given how bad he looked physically in the first round. The Celtics have felt inevitable all year with the only exception being speculation that the Nuggets would flip a switch at some point.
Sports media is driven on recency bias. Doesn’t matter what Luka/the Mavs have done the entire playoff run- now that they’re losing and he’s complaining so they’re chokers and he’s a whiner!
Not to say he’s undeserving of criticism but the season has been awesome, beating teams people didn’t expect us to pretty much the whole way. Luka has generally been fantastic in the playoffs. The Celtics are simply too deep for us to keep up.
R/nba and some fans torch whoever is in their sights. They were roasting Brunson in their games for being a flopper. Embiid. Shai. Luka is just the guy right now.
Always happens, when a superstar fails to perform to the expected level
It happens, he'll bounce back and be loved again
Most of the criticism is warranted to a degree though.
Some of the criticism is warranted, but much of it misses the point to me.
Criticizing him for the whining, his mental lapses (offensively and defensively), and how he acts when he's frustrated - justified. Criticizing him for his defense not being good enough - justified.
Criticizing him for lack of effort, desire, ect - that's nonsense to me. Even defensively. Luka has put in the effort all year long - not always enough, not always consistently, but he's no longer 'not even trying'.
Luka is carrying one of the largest offensive loads in history, against multiple elite defensive teams (OKC, Wolves, Boston), while nursing 2-3 semi-major injuries. That does not mean he's immune from criticism but so much of it completely misses the mark.
And any Mavs fan that wants to shit on the guy can fuck off in my book. We're still lucky as hell to have him, flaws and all.
Good thing 95% of the criticism has been from the first paragraph i e justified according to you. You see any small deviation from 100% correct on point criticism and now it's so much of it lmao.
I mean the people saying luka suck are stupid, but thats mostly just random trolls.
Luka is always whining on the court, and try to compare it to early career lebron which is insanity. Luka is literally out there kicking and screaming like a baby while foul baiting all game and is costing them this series single handedly. He is an amazing player but deserves almost all of the legitimate criticism he is getting.
Oh shit a reasonable take that doesn’t paint the guy who took his team to the finals and averaged insane numbers as some broken shitty player? The disappointment in composure and defense is justified but people are legitimately acting like Luka is some broken player now. It’s wild how quick the media and fans are to cut down a young player after a couple performances. Happened to Ant in the WCF and now is happening to Luka in the Finals. If the Celtics would’ve lost it would’ve happened to Tatum. Stinks
It's has already happened to Tatum and Brown in 2022 and 2023 respectively.
It's happened to Ant this year. It'll probably happen to Brunson next year. NBA discourse is fucking terrible.
It's not only that. It's that we build these guys up the moment they have a couple good games, like people calling Edwards the next MJ after a good game, and then calling him a bum after a bad one. It's just exaggeration all-around.
it's particularly bad during the playoffs and gets at its worst during the finals.
The finals are when everyone, including many many people who never watch basketball much at all, tune in, and they all want to have their opinion heard and are here for the drama
I've seen insanely bad takes and a lot of them are from unflaired users who don't like basketball as much as they like criticizing things
There's also gloating from Celtics fans which is fair. Of course you're gonna talk smack when your team lays out a beatdown like this. It's worse than it would be though because they got trashed for making it to the Finals in a weak East, which isn't fair, and hated on for being the Celtics, which is 100% fair.
It was such garbage and he deserved none of it. Ant immediately told everyone to stfu with the Jordan stuff and they still ran with it. And so the cycle of overhyping a young player just to intentionally tear then down starts again...
It appears to be happening to Tatum regardless lmao. Catching so much heat for his shot not falling, despite being great at all other things basically. Sometimes your botlane is 12-2 in lane, you just gotta sit under tower, ward, farm, focus on objectives and build tanky. Luka's problem is his botlane is also feeding their ass off
People who know ball and have spent any real time watching the NBA understand that he's a great player who is still growing up in the game. Hopefully he'll learn from this experience and grow into someone who can lead a team to a title.
He’s physically fucked up. He can’t even bend his knees to get into defensive position. Watch him. Anytime play stops he leans over to take weight off of his injuries. He was at like 75% against OKC and has been declining since.
Let’s not forget that Ant was smoked physically by the west finals. It’s not easy playing this hard, this long.
Luka is getting the Lebron treatment. Lebron was also getting hate when he kept failing to win a title. Everybody knew how great he was that everyone was pissed when he kept failing to live up to it. Luka is going through the same thing.
Ppl know how great Luka is, so they're frustrated when he fails to get over the hump.
The players who constantly chirp at the refs will always have people who dislike them. When during every break you go to the refs instead of your bench it's hard to watch.
On a personal level, watching Kyle Anderson get a soft ass tech call for a hand gesture while walking away, while Luka can literally SCREAM and not get anything.
This is why the NBA is incredibly difficult to watch sometimes. Fouls are very subjective because the rules allow for the to be and players know how to bend those rules and “sell/draw a foul”.
Idk where you get that idea. Luka, long before this finals, has been pretty universally criticized for his style of play (foul baiting) and complaining.
Similar to when Harden came on the scene, just add on a lot more complaining.
Anyone who watches without hate can see he is not 100% and struggling to move. That frustrates him and that shows in form of whining and fouling but please stop acting like he didn't carry his team to the finals despite his defensive defects.
He's getting treated just like Lebron early in his career and people are acting like he's being crucified. Dude dragged his team to the finals and got all the flowers for nearly a week. Media was having "took the greatest player alive from Jokic" conversations. But being banged up doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs like he is. People are calling him out like every other superstar.
>But being banged up doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs like he is. I agree. It doesn't give you a free pass to cry to the refs, and he deserves the criticism for that. But there are way too many people who are claiming that Luka isn't injured at all and is "faking" an injury, which is just completely insane. He is clearly hobbled and is taking pain shots before every game.
The man is wrapped up like a mummy. If people think he has been faking this for like 3 series now, then they need their head checked.
Go to any (negative) post about Luka in the last week or so, and you will unfortunately find plenty of them.
Just a bunch of sad fucks who pretend to hate Luka for his whining when it’s mainly because he destroyed their teams.
Salty Suns fans, mostly. Check out their sub, all they do is trash Luka. As if their sorry team didn’t just get swept in the first round
Wrapped like a mummy and getting toradol shots. I think during the OKC series Luka was asked if this was the regular season he'd be playing and he said no.
Haters are a sad group of people lol, just doing mental gymnastics to continue fueling their hate. I started enjoying the NBA so much more after I just appreciated all the players and stopped hating.
That’s right, I look back and see how many players I took for granted because of how much hating I did in my younger years.
That’s fake blood coming out of his knee every game. Open your eyes bro.
People still claim Mahomes faked an ankle injury in the Super Bowl a few years ago to either avoid criticism for losing or look like a hero if they won. Honestly injury deniers are crazier than flat earthers in my book
Luka is definitely injured and I’ve been pointing that out in most Luka hate threads. But exaggerating injuries (especially when you are losing) is as old as sports, so I’m not going to say injury deniers are crazier than flat earthers.
The Luka complaining criticisms are warranted, but this revisionist history about him not being a "winning player" despite all of the winning shit he's done every single year in the playoffs is just incredible.
Haha, yeah, that's always a good one. The amount of people who said Tatum wasn't a winner even though he's been to like 5 conference finals and 1 finals before this was just absurd. Of course Luka is a winning player! He carried in a bunch of playoff series that his team won. He doesn't have a ring at age 25 or whatever, but he is clearly a winning player. It's maddening that so many people suggest otherwise!
Why focus on those people though? Why do you have to be affected by randos online?
Haven’t seen a single person claim he is faking an injury
I've seen plenty. Heck, I myself thought he was embellishing the thoracic business til I heard about the mummy wrap.
Let me clarify, you can find any small bucket of people putting crazy takes out there no matter the topic. Most of the time its trolls or crazy haters. But there isn’t a common belief among rational people that he is faking injuries. He is getting literal injections to manage pain, it’s obviously real.
When LeBron was in his first finals he shot 35% from the field and scored 22 PPG.
To be fair, that was, without a doubt one of the most one-sided, from a talent perspective, NBA finals in the modern era. That Spurs team was so so much more talented than that Cavs team. I still think back on that series sometimes and can't believe the cavs made it to the finals to begin with
The experience of the Spurs in the playoffs at that time was pretty impressive and their main trio was just hitting their prime as well. Coaching was top tier, they had all the advantages.
He didn't have enough help and was playing against the Big 3 Spurs. Lebron was also only 22 during his first finals appearance.
It's insane to think about. Being 22 and the main player on your first finals appearance.
Even main player is an understatement lol look at that fucking squad.
LeBron had about twice as many PPG as the #2 scorer on his roster, which was Larry Hughes lmao. He also led them in assists. Good lord.
It’s the worst supporting cast in NBA Finals history. Even AI’s Sixers were significantly better. If Bron got drafted to even an average organization, he’d have crushed MJ’s six.
A lot of people didn't realize they were witnessing greatness, but the media had another agenda.
Dude was as old as Anthony Edwards is now and had no other teammates that San Antonio really had to fear defensively, of course he didn't shoot well!
Cmon bro. 22 year old LeBron didn’t have a number 2 anywhere close to Kyrie or the role players Luka does.
And played defense
God damn nephews. 1. Compare roster spots 2-7 2. Compare age 3. Compare defense 4. Compare PPG -- 22 PPG then is like 27-30 PPG today
Didn’t Stephen Smith have him on all NBA second team and didn’t he finish 3rd in MVP Voting ? I agree with your last point but not your other ones.
You’re pathetic if you actually agree with the what the knuckleheads criticizing Luka are saying.
Even if he wasn’t banged up, he would be crying to the refs the same way
If the Mavs get swept tonight then Luka will follow LeBrons path. I remember when LeBron took the Cavs to the Finals and got swept by San Antonio. Felt bad for him, but Pop had a better team. It was also the playoff year of Baron “Fucking” Davis that I will never get over as a Mavs fan.
Except Luka is three years older than Lebron was at that point. Lebron also didn't have anyone close to Kyrie's level. I am not sure these paths are all that similar.
He also went through the weak East
How dare you insult Anderson Verejão! He might not be at Kyrie’s level…or position…but he kinda helped? But agreed. Luka makes his own path
Baron still haunts me man. I feel that
Best friends and I were in HS about to go on a band trip to Chicago so we thought it would be a good idea to watch the game at my house since in the morning we’d all need to go to the airport. We were gonna have a fun time that night. And then we lost. It was a quiet night after that…
There wasn’t anything in the world that Baron Davis would have no issues ruining that year. RIP fun band trip
So, losing in the CSF/CF the next 3 years before putting on a lavish PR production to announce he's taking his talents elsewhere?
Agreed. He can be maybe the best player in the world but also playing injured while also complaining to the refs too much. Both can be true.
He didn't drag his team to the finals lol?
[удалено]
Difference is that he often does it at the expense of getting back on Defense
He is definitely not moving freely, but let’s not give him as pass on the whining. It’s ridiculous after every play.
“He’s not moving at 100% so it’s okay that he dives to try and foul bait, along with complaining to refs all game” I don’t get some of these posters lol.
Except you just made that quote up lol. All the op said was he’s not 100% -> that frustrates him. No where did he say it was justified
Rules for thee and not for me mindset. Any other player would be getting raked over the coals but not the golden boy
Except Luka is getting raked over the coals lol
Are we pretending that Luka hasn’t been complaining to refs his whole career? The complaining aspect isn’t new. The bad defense is definitely at a different level than before. Most of it is injury. Some of it is conditioning. Some of it is that he clearly doesn’t prioritize improving that part of his game. He’s young and this will be a formative experience for him. I’d bet we see a better version of him next year.
Conditioning is definitely a large part of it. Do y'all remember like 20 games in last season when Luka admitted to the media during a slump that he was feeling exhausted? Has he made any noticeable changes in his diet or workout regiment? He really does need to lose like 15-20 pounds this offseason. I know people argue that his weight helps him get inside, but the man can hit impossible fadeaways like no one else. He'll be fine, there's really no way to defend it. If Luka wants to play at an elite level in his mid 30s, he really needs to change some stuff up. It may take him 2 years to do it, but if he can replace those 15-20 pounds of fat and convert it to muscle, he'll be deadly.
It's definitely been a trend that's only getting worse each season. He was fine his rookie year and tolerable his 2nd year. I've always thought that Luka has the worst body language in the NBA, even worse than Lebron. He's one of the most exciting players to watch on offense in a long time and it's the reason why I watch a LOT of Mavs games. Everyone is laughing and high fiving but as soon as things aren't completely going his way, it all falls apart. Luka could be my favorite player but his non-existent leadership and constant bitching at refs (which seems to be every other game I watch) always makes me question if he actually can be an all time great. Yes, Lebron was always a crybaby (I'm a Lebron hater) but even he was never this bad until late into his career, which I sort of give him the "Im too old for this shit" pass.
I’m watching with a lot of hate and he is moving pretty good on the offensive end but he is struggling on defense.
lmao I respect the upfront honesty
It's much easier to deal with an injury when you dictate the movement versus where you are reacting to someone. On offense, you can play to what you are still able to do relatively well. Where on defense, you don't get that luxury.
Ok, but letting your man blow past you because of injury is one thing. Luka in game 3 was fouling after they blew past him and was trying to just jump in front of the guy he was defending. Gilbert Arenas said it best: it's like 2k defense.
To me, the offensive end is where it's been most obvious that he's physically struggling. In Game 2, which is the one he was listed as questionable to play in leading up to the game, he was moving like a stiff 45 year old man at the Y who's still recovering from his last run 3 days ago. He was slow and ginger and careful and obviously consciously limiting himself in what kind of movements he made and what kind of attacks he employed. The fact that he was still able to put up 32-11-11 in that state (with 4 steals!) just speaks to what a generational talent he is.
Compare some highlights from the playoffs vs him during the season. He isn't moving nearly as well on offense either. Not much lift on his shots either. Moving on offense != moving on defense. Different skills, different muscles, ect. It is harder on many levels to defend than to attack. Luka needs to be better on defense, but the issue is not effort nor is it conditioning. It's frustration/mental mistakes, and injuries. Criticize him all you want for the former but I don't care to see much criticism of his effort.
I don't get how people think his conditioning could possibly be bad despite having just played an NBA season while having the highest usage rate in the league. How would that even make sense?
Completely agree. I think there's likely room for improvement, but that doesn't mean he's a "fatty" or is out of shape.
Because he's a little chubby. Meanwhile Edwards was visibly exhausted agaimst the Mavs and you don't hear anything about his conditioning.
Luka isn't even chubby. It would be a feat of human physiology to have excess body fat while engaging in that level of activity. He's just really solidly built and is wearing an extra inch of padding under his jersey since his chest injury.
If you think he’s moving well offensively, you need to watch more Luka.
man there were two posseions on game 3 that he shoot a stepback a fell to the ground with no one near, he is hurt, he still playing good IMO,and boston would win even if he is at 80% so whatever, boston its just too god (things you can do when Brooklyn gifts you picks)
The hate blinds you to only focus on the results like too many others are. His movement is off on offense but he just still has other ways to score/facilitate and the team has no other option than for him to keep trying which even for elite healthy players that aren’t “fat” wears them down by the end of the game at that volume. People really should be talking about how good the Celtics are but that’s not how the internet works sadly so here we are finding weird stuff to hate on like him barely not getting his foot all the way down as a player barrels into him with elbow out. See I can slip into it too lol.
Who in the world has acted or suggested to that he didn’t carry his team to the finals?
Most takes on here seem to come from people who get amnesia every game or two.
redditors love arguing against points that nobody was making.
"And y'all said Steph Curry wasn't a bucket smh"
I'm not going to allow this revisionist history. Did you not watch the first or second round of the playoffs? Did you not see how badly he performed in certain games where Kyrie stepped up to lead the team to a win? Luka may be the best player on the Mavs and the primary reason they made it to the Finals, but he certainly did not "carry" them there
You are making a strawman argument…no one said Kyrie hasn’t been good throughout most of the playoffs, but the Mavs revolves around Luka….their whole identity is based on Luka’s gravity attacking the paint and finding wide open corner shooters or lob targets. Kyrie certainly was a great 2nd offensive weapon and was a pressure release valve, but Luka absolutely carried this team to the finals. Did you conveniently forget all the games Kyrie was weak? He averaged 16 points in the 2nd round…Luka has consistently been the best player by far on the Mavs, and hell even in the playoffs as a whole. Great players are allowed to have scattered bad games..
Again, I am not saying Luka is not the best player on the Mavs and the primary reason they are in the Finals. But he is far from having "carried" this team into the Finals. Maybe it's a difference how we view the term, but carrying to me implies that Luka made it there in spite of other factors. But the reason he made it *is because his teammates stepped up when he was playing poorly*. Examples: Round 1 Game 3, Mavs win 101-90: Luka shoots 28% FGP and 21% from 3. Scores 22 points. Kyrie scores 21 but on much better shooting - 47% FGP and 43% from 3. Luka also has 5 TOs this game compared to Kyrie's 2. The Mavs won this game *in spite* of Luka, otherwise they likely go down 1-2 for the series. While Luka had great overall stats the next 3 games, he shot a combined 4-27 from 3: 1-9, 2-8, 1-10. Kyrie, on the other hand, shot 12-28, with only a bad Game 5 performance of 1-7. Round 2 Game 1: 32% FGP and 1-8 from 3, scoring 19 points. Mavs lose. Round 2 Game 3: 22 points on 1-4 3PT shooting. Kyrie only scores 22 as well but makes clutch left-handed runner in the final minute to make it a 2 possession lead. PJ Washington leads team with 27 points. Without Kyrie and PJ stepping up and shooting much more efficiently, Mavs lose this game and go down in the series 1-2. Round 2 Game 4: 30% FGP and 22% from 3, going 2-9 and 6-20 overall for 18 points. Mavs lose this game, and again, if Kyrie and PJ don't step up the prior game, Mavs would be in 1-3 hole. It is just not true that Luka "carried" this team. He likely does not make it past the 1st or 2nd round without his teammates stepping up when he was not playing well.
You cherry picking 3 games proves nothing my man. He is the reason Washington, DJJ, Lively and Gafford have looked way better than they are as role players. Sorry, this just is a bad take…Luka definitely carrier this team, regardless of a few bad games here and there, especially when he was most hobbled early on.
Dude, *he got carried by his team to avoid going down 1-2 in the first round and 1-3 in the second round.* I pretty conclusively proved it. Those games mattered *a ton.* I'm not going to change your mind either way so I'm done 🤷♂️
Yeah because you’re saying dumbass shit lol
Who even expected this Dallas team to end up in the finals? They are there due to Luka magic. He has been the best player for Dallas in every playoffs series. In fact, he has probably been the best player even when we compare Dallas and their opponent team in the playoffs up to this point. Despite being banged up we can argue he is still the best player in the finals. Boston just has too many weapons. For Dallas to win both Kyrie and Luka need to go crazy in the same game. That hasn't happened. Kyrie had 2 bad games. Luka had foul trouble in the last one.
I thought we will be taken out by the Clippers as usual but we won. Then we won again the next round, then won again. It fueled the thought “hey maybe we can win the finals with a team that was just put together, 2 rookies and a guy playing on 1 leg!”
I agree, I don’t think the whining and fouling is the issue - part of winning the finals is getting to that point and being conditioned enough to perform at the highest level that deep into the season. I think if there is anything Luka should take away from this run, it is the importance of conditioning.
It’s funny how fans pick and choose which ones deserve criticism for lack of defense bc of their offensive effort. It’s just a sliding scale in which each player is judged.
What you said can all be true but that doesn't really excuse or disprove some of the big stuff people are saying about him. Him giving up on the entire defensive posession when his guy blows by him isn't a result of him being hobbled. It's a result of him not being engaged. Him going on year 6 of constantly bitching to the refs isn't a result of him not being 100%. It's a result of who he has been as a player basically his entire NBA career.
Damn this is coming from a Celtics fan
He's always been a whiner my guy. Biggest cry baby in the league. I've been saying it for years.
Stop making excuses for a grown man throwing temper tantrums. He does this every game, not just when he’s banged up.
No one is 100% when playing in June. Its part of the game.
TV execs are angry that this will be a short series and already have a bias against him. That’s why he’s getting dogged on like this and I’m not even defending what he did last game.
Yeah, and it's honestly a joke that the narrative has been trashing Luka instead of how unreal Boston is. I'm not even mad right now, nobody beating this team when they are locked in like this.
he just seems whiny, jeez.
He's still by far their best player in the finals also. 1 good Kyrie game doesn't change that.
He's been whining as much his whole career.
Yeah that can be a reason, but yelling and whining at everyone is still bitch shit. We get it dude, you think you’re the only one banged up? Only you get fouls called on you?
Why is this fucking guy so damn likable
He stores all the right answers in his bigass head.
Found Josh Hart's burner.
I fucking love jalen brunson. Such a chill attitude on and off the court
until he makes the finals and everyone sees how much he foul baits then r/nba turns on him when hes down 0-3 to OKC in a couple years lol
Not in Dallas anymore. That is why.
This sub is REALLY not gonna like his Embiid take from this same podcast
What did he say?
That he is unfairly judged based on playoff success when he’s (again according to Brunson) one of the most dominant players he’s played against who completely controls the game/pace/etc. And he also refutes the stupid notion that Embiid “doesn’t care” about his lack of playoff success and things like that Overall basically an Embiid hater’s 9/11 😁
Nah a Embiid hater’s 9/11 will be when he gets out of the 2nd round. Right now it’s still 12/25
So never lol
it's 12/25 everyday babyyy
What does 12/25 mean in this context? I see it all the time, no clue what happened on that date except it's Christmas morning.
Exactly that. It's Christmas. It's viewed as a day filled with joy and happiness. It's generally viewed as a good day, if not the best day of the year, by many. My 12/25 would be if the Mavs reverse sweep. The opposite is 9/11. Day when the twin towers fell and a lot of people died. The opposite of what Christmas is. This would be my Mavs getting swept 4-0 which is very likely.
12 for 25 shooting. So an excellent game for whoever it is we're hating on at the moment
> it's Christmas
You answered your own question
nobody has ever said that embiid doesnt care about the playoffs, obviously thats not true
Yeah I mean the guy was crying after losing to the raptors and he was playing this year on one leg and half a face. Whatever you think about his playstyle he definitely wants to win a title
If Embiid wasn’t injured this year, I think there’s a strong chance they win that series and make it to ECF. I’m an Embiid hater, but he showed he can perform in the playoffs this year—he just really didn’t look right late in the series.
If embiid wasn’t injured is the story of his career
This sounds like you just want it to be an Embiid hater's 9/11 so that you can feel good about it lol. I'm an Embiid hater and 9/11 for that would be for him to get out of the 2nd round for once in his career lol. Though I don't think I need to be too worried about that.
Fortunately, now that we all love Embiid, we have the sixers fans to give us something to hate til next season.
Bro this is a Taylor Rooks sitdown interview, in what world is any player ever gonna talk shit about somebody else when asked a question about them instead of just diplomatically complimenting them while trying to come off as understanding and insightful? What's he gonna say lol, "Embiid's a bum that crashes in the 4th and flames out in the second round every year?" yeah right bro can you imagine the sports media HURRICANE 🤣 Players do respect Embiid because they know how hard it is to stop him firsthand, dude's a giant and you gotta watch out because he's gonna be out there spinning and barreling into you with the force of a small grizzly bear. Maybe Brunson also feels a particular affinity with him as a fellow free throw merchant. Imagine if they teamed up, the Ornstein and Smough of free throw mercantilism.
Ornbombs? Love me some Ornstein. Hope he delivers good news this summer.
lol i never thought i would see a thread on reddit that requires context from both dark souls and football to understand
Lol at Ornstein and Smough. I tip my hat to you lmao
To be fair isn't that almost what they did to Gobert? lol. They brought him up in the podcast and Brunson goes "That's the league's DPOY. Not my DPOY" and start talking about whether he can be DPOY if people want to attack and score on him. It just certainly wasn't totally praising him just because he got mentioned in a public conversation.
He's French it's an exception
honestly he’s fully right. i’m a celtics fan and a jokic fan so i’m gonna give embiid plenty of shit but he’s easily a top 5 player, i’d probably put him \#3, and he gets shit even for this year where he genuinely played incredibly well in the playoffs. easily one of the most disrespected players in the league
Embiid is not a top 5 player. The idea of Embiid is a top 5 player
I mean let’s just add an asterisk saying “when he’s healthy”
A healthy Embiid is a top 5 player. Unfortunately we don’t get to see that Embiid in the playoffs. Literally not once.
Please elaborate
Health
Top 5 players are usually in shape enough to finish games
I only watch the conference finals and the finals. Who is Embiid?
Sure, because a player's opinion is 100% true and gospel. Brunson said it so Embiid magically didn't disappear in a lot of deciding games that 6ers lost in the second round. Why don't we just decide playoff games via player podcasts instead of playing the games?
Its always 12/25 for me especially when my knicks eliminated embiid round 1 😃
That’s not surprising. This sub genuinely hates Embiid. Luka isn’t hated, he’s just on the losing team of the series meaning he gets heat
Man, people would rather just hate Brunson too since he’s not trashing on his old teammate and friend. It’s honestly crazy how quick fans brought the knives out for Luka and anyone who associates with him. Wild times.
The whole Luka thing is weird because he has been visibly hurt for the entire playoffs. This whole run has been legendary given how bad he looked physically in the first round. The Celtics have felt inevitable all year with the only exception being speculation that the Nuggets would flip a switch at some point.
Yeah I think people forgot the Celtics are fucking stacked. There isn’t shame in losing to them.
Sports media is driven on recency bias. Doesn’t matter what Luka/the Mavs have done the entire playoff run- now that they’re losing and he’s complaining so they’re chokers and he’s a whiner! Not to say he’s undeserving of criticism but the season has been awesome, beating teams people didn’t expect us to pretty much the whole way. Luka has generally been fantastic in the playoffs. The Celtics are simply too deep for us to keep up.
R/nba and some fans torch whoever is in their sights. They were roasting Brunson in their games for being a flopper. Embiid. Shai. Luka is just the guy right now.
Always happens, when a superstar fails to perform to the expected level It happens, he'll bounce back and be loved again Most of the criticism is warranted to a degree though.
Some of the criticism is warranted, but much of it misses the point to me. Criticizing him for the whining, his mental lapses (offensively and defensively), and how he acts when he's frustrated - justified. Criticizing him for his defense not being good enough - justified. Criticizing him for lack of effort, desire, ect - that's nonsense to me. Even defensively. Luka has put in the effort all year long - not always enough, not always consistently, but he's no longer 'not even trying'. Luka is carrying one of the largest offensive loads in history, against multiple elite defensive teams (OKC, Wolves, Boston), while nursing 2-3 semi-major injuries. That does not mean he's immune from criticism but so much of it completely misses the mark. And any Mavs fan that wants to shit on the guy can fuck off in my book. We're still lucky as hell to have him, flaws and all.
Good thing 95% of the criticism has been from the first paragraph i e justified according to you. You see any small deviation from 100% correct on point criticism and now it's so much of it lmao.
I mean the people saying luka suck are stupid, but thats mostly just random trolls. Luka is always whining on the court, and try to compare it to early career lebron which is insanity. Luka is literally out there kicking and screaming like a baby while foul baiting all game and is costing them this series single handedly. He is an amazing player but deserves almost all of the legitimate criticism he is getting.
I'd expect any active player to not shit on another one, this isn't surprising at all
Why is his take way better than anyone's take in the media LOL??
Because nba media is legitimately repulsive
because nba media is driven by hate and ‘failure’
Oh shit a reasonable take that doesn’t paint the guy who took his team to the finals and averaged insane numbers as some broken shitty player? The disappointment in composure and defense is justified but people are legitimately acting like Luka is some broken player now. It’s wild how quick the media and fans are to cut down a young player after a couple performances. Happened to Ant in the WCF and now is happening to Luka in the Finals. If the Celtics would’ve lost it would’ve happened to Tatum. Stinks
It's has already happened to Tatum and Brown in 2022 and 2023 respectively. It's happened to Ant this year. It'll probably happen to Brunson next year. NBA discourse is fucking terrible.
It's not only that. It's that we build these guys up the moment they have a couple good games, like people calling Edwards the next MJ after a good game, and then calling him a bum after a bad one. It's just exaggeration all-around.
Journalists need to make a name for themselves on Twitter, everyone needs the spiciest take possible
it's particularly bad during the playoffs and gets at its worst during the finals. The finals are when everyone, including many many people who never watch basketball much at all, tune in, and they all want to have their opinion heard and are here for the drama I've seen insanely bad takes and a lot of them are from unflaired users who don't like basketball as much as they like criticizing things
There's also gloating from Celtics fans which is fair. Of course you're gonna talk smack when your team lays out a beatdown like this. It's worse than it would be though because they got trashed for making it to the Finals in a weak East, which isn't fair, and hated on for being the Celtics, which is 100% fair.
It’s happening to Tatum right now in this sub.
Ring culture is the worst.
I hate how they set up Ant by comparing him to Jordan and people still fell for that shit. People are just looking for excuses to hate.
It was such garbage and he deserved none of it. Ant immediately told everyone to stfu with the Jordan stuff and they still ran with it. And so the cycle of overhyping a young player just to intentionally tear then down starts again...
This sub loves to shit on Skip and SAS for their hot takes then turn around and make the same dumbass takes on here.
It appears to be happening to Tatum regardless lmao. Catching so much heat for his shot not falling, despite being great at all other things basically. Sometimes your botlane is 12-2 in lane, you just gotta sit under tower, ward, farm, focus on objectives and build tanky. Luka's problem is his botlane is also feeding their ass off
Less than a month ago, we were applauding Luka's defense. Everybody's just trying to get clicks and put their spin on things, it's dumb.
It's playoffs. It gets extra spicy with reactionary takes this time of year
People who know ball and have spent any real time watching the NBA understand that he's a great player who is still growing up in the game. Hopefully he'll learn from this experience and grow into someone who can lead a team to a title.
He’s physically fucked up. He can’t even bend his knees to get into defensive position. Watch him. Anytime play stops he leans over to take weight off of his injuries. He was at like 75% against OKC and has been declining since. Let’s not forget that Ant was smoked physically by the west finals. It’s not easy playing this hard, this long.
Jalen would be a bad redditor
He would be downvoted so hard and get care messages sent from Reddit lol
Luka is getting the Lebron treatment. Lebron was also getting hate when he kept failing to win a title. Everybody knew how great he was that everyone was pissed when he kept failing to live up to it. Luka is going through the same thing. Ppl know how great Luka is, so they're frustrated when he fails to get over the hump.
The players who constantly chirp at the refs will always have people who dislike them. When during every break you go to the refs instead of your bench it's hard to watch. On a personal level, watching Kyle Anderson get a soft ass tech call for a hand gesture while walking away, while Luka can literally SCREAM and not get anything.
Lebron played defense though
Lebron was healthy too
Excellent come to the Knicks luka, theres an honorary Villanova degree on the line
This is why the NBA is incredibly difficult to watch sometimes. Fouls are very subjective because the rules allow for the to be and players know how to bend those rules and “sell/draw a foul”.
Mavs fans will have the last laugh. Not this year but soon. The West better wake up.
treatment reach stupendous fragile vase deer plant special tan chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Definitely is.
The irony being that Tatum is the biggest cry baby in the league. Nothing ever said about him.
jalen Brunson talking fax
Watch out, someone who knows what he is talking about
People I've now seen criticize Luka Doncic: a lot of Celtics, Suns, and Hawks flairs lmao! Stay mad
Why would the Celtics fans be mad? It’s 3-0 in the finals they should be praising Luka’s hard nosed defense.
Hate?? Luka is genuinely liked across the league Hate is Jaysum Tatum who people criticize because he shoots
Idk where you get that idea. Luka, long before this finals, has been pretty universally criticized for his style of play (foul baiting) and complaining. Similar to when Harden came on the scene, just add on a lot more complaining.
Taylor Rooks is bae 😍
Luka has been fouled like hell trough the series, but only few calls. No wonder it starts boiling
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I don't know if they get here with him
I dont think much changes for them, this year at least, if they swapped
Players of this era aren't going to criticize each other. They all wanna be friends and shit.
lol they *are* friends. They were drafted to the Mavs the same year and were teammates for 4 seasons.