man i went to one game brooklyn vs knicks a couple years back , after shoot around every player from both teams went back to the locker room except for Royce O’Neale, he stayed out for about 10 minutes extra strictly practicing three-point shots
Then like the very first play of the game, he drained a three and consequently drained like 4 total 3s for the game and the Nets won
i am a knicks fan but def respected tf outta that lol
was a cool moment
Probably also went that entire month without making a layup. Dude has negative touch when driving to the rim. Just chucks is straight off the backboard
It's pretty hilarious to see a bench player in the NBA making about $1 million less than the best player in the NHL (Connor McDavid). The difference in salaries is wild.
Royce ONeale didn’t waste everyone’s time and bring a series back from 0-3 to Game 7 just to lose like McDavid.
Royce ONeale just got swept and kept it moving. He deserves more as far as im concerned.
Yes but that doesn't dispute or change the fact that NFL teams have like 5x the players to pay. I think the NFL brings in twice the revenue the NBA does but having 12 guys vs 50+ to pay.
I mean the best contracts are actually in baseball, and I’d argue it’s equally or less popular. It’s all about how well the players negotiated in the past. The NFL has by far the worst contracts relative to its own sport
Just shows the power David stern did with his tenure, he made basketball global and in return players are now reaping those rewards. He was the first commissioner to truly see the value of having a players association with the owners.
NHL is super exciting but yes besides playoffs I feel
Like you don’t hear much about hockey lol but god damn is it fun to watch maybe NHL needs to do the same to get more TV rights?
I dunno, Ishbia has been pretty notoriously willing to spend. If anything, I’d take this as a sign they intend to keep Royce for the long haul by making it more team friendly than tradeable.
You guys are going to be past the second apron to the point where any trades will be extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible.
Pretty sure second apron teams can’t combine multiple players into a single trade, and more importantly any trade will require the salaries to match exactly
Hence the point. Whatever target we had, that’s what we should’ve signed Royce for so we could actually trade for someone to make a difference. Using Royce’s Bird Rights to sign his contract to match was pretty much our best option to upgrade / escape hell this season
That would require having a specific trade target in mind to have Royce’s contract match exactly. But since this is a new deal, I don’t think he’s eligible to be traded until December anyways.
So I don’t think that strategy would really be that viable anyways. If that one target you designed Royce’s contract around is no longer available in December, it doesn’t really matter and you’re in the same position
I think it’s more beneficial for the Suns to have Royce on a lower deal that is less of a burden towards the apron in future years, than to have given him an inflated contract just for the chance to trade him for one specific player later in the year
We got the 2031 pick, plus the other second we just picked up too. That 2031 should be immensely valuable as of now because our team is gonna be shit in like 2-3 years let alone by 2031. Genuine first overall pick potential lmao
If we could dump the shit out of Beal for that pick P L E A S E. Problem is it’s Beal nobody wants him, and he still has that no trade clause so we’re stuck on that one like a hostage situation. We either need a serviceable PG, or a big who can space. My first target would’ve been Brook Lopez who I feel like a damn near guaranteed 1st overall pick plus salary matching is more than fair for. Next up would just be to call up offices with disgruntled stars and see how low you can get a guy for because after Boston picked up Porzingis for next to nothing you never know.
Yeah I dunno what the point in digging a deeper hole. Should just look to salvage whatever you can get for KD if team isn’t doing well by the deadline.
That’s mostly right but not exactly. The salaries don’t have to match, we just can’t trade for a player who makes more than what we’re sending out. And you’re right about aggregating outgoing players, that’s off the table. We can’t include cash either. But we can trade one player for multiple players as long as their combined salaries don’t exceed the salary we’re sending out.
this guy reads CBA’s, good shit. Not that I don’t believe you, I’ve just heard so many contradicting statements regarding the whole thing it’s hard to understand what the hell we actually can do lol
With full Bird rights, a team can offer a player up to the maximum salary allowed (up to five years with 8% annual raises), even if the team is over the salary cap. Bird rights reset when a player hits free agency and they transfer with a player in a trade, so it's basically how many years since this player was a free agent. Royce O'Neal's bird rights started accruing in Utah, got transferred along with him to Brooklyn, and again when he got traded to Phoenix.
More like "he's not bad."
He's ok at everything you'd expect from a 3nD, not really great at anything. I'm sure 11M/year seems a bit much for people but these days that seems about right for a player who's a step above vet min guys
Yeah, the ones that are better than meh make 20M/year now though and the elite ones make 40M/year and get traded for 5 first rounders.
For 11M, I'll take meh
11m/yr is a good deal for a solid rotation 3nD guy and with 4 years it will look better and better. There will definitely be worse contracts handed out this year for bench guys.
I’ve been happy with it. Banking on the coaching change doing most of the legwork but we brought in some actual athletes which will make this season more fun
Hoping for a decent backup PG in free agency
This being 4 years is pretty rough for Phoenix imo.
Royce is an okay role player now, but he’s 31. He’s probably going to be a non-contributor when he’s in the latter stages of that contract
“Solid off-season” as they run it back to another first round exit lol.
That being said however, they’re essentially fucked themselves so badly that they literally have no choice other than to run it back. Supporting that dumpster fire of an organization sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Ball is life 🙏. You understand me bro 🤝. Fuck working our shitty-ass 9-5 jobs in order to make a living and fuck getting a social life. All that matters in life is how our basketball teams (which the only reason we support them is because we just so happened to grow up close to our basketball team’s location) perform.
Buddy we don't all have a Finals worthy roster lead by Luka Doncic. Our situation is as far from ideal as you can get, but at least the powers that be are trying to make it work instead of going full tank mode or selling the house for nothing.
Basically just this and turned 22 into Ryan Dunn, Oso Igadoro, and two future seconds.
I guess we also picked up the option for David Roddy, which seems incredibly inconsequential
I'm sure it's a descending deal that starts out high enough for him to be eligible to trade for players who signed an mle.
Gotta have tradeable contracts to do anything
> ~$11m for 35 year old Royce O'Neale seems a lot.
Guy who will be good for 20+ minutes a night with general good health in his career and plays defense. It's a good deal, even in his age 34 season.
$11M will be so little in 4 years. MLE money is projected at $17M the final year of that contract
$11M for him now is kind of a steal so it balances out
After the final day of the season (after the Celtics won) teams could start to negotiate with their own players. Tomorrow teams can start negotiating with any free agents, not just your own and contracts can be signed beginning of 6th July.
With nba salaries it makes sense when you think about how many players can be in the league for the sport of basketball. If you aren’t the 7th best player on any team in the league you’re just good enough to be pursued and paid well. If you’re the 7th best player on an NFL roster you’re a goddamn fucking blue chip stud.
Why not test the free agent market to see if there is something else out there? If he doesn't care about winning he can probably get more money elsewhere and if he cares about winning he can find better opportunities elsewhere.
Suns have his Bird rights and are capped out and have essentially no other options to sign anyone aside from minimum contract players, I would think it's pretty unlikely anyone else would have offered him a larger contract overall.
Royce "Big Trade Chip" O'Neale
Royce “Windhorst’s Oracle” O’Neale
Yupperz
There was a month stretch where he hit every “pump fake, side step three” and it was marvelous. I miss him
Nets legend
Always happy for Royce, enjoyed his time here.
man i went to one game brooklyn vs knicks a couple years back , after shoot around every player from both teams went back to the locker room except for Royce O’Neale, he stayed out for about 10 minutes extra strictly practicing three-point shots Then like the very first play of the game, he drained a three and consequently drained like 4 total 3s for the game and the Nets won i am a knicks fan but def respected tf outta that lol was a cool moment
Ya we like him too, solid player and teammate.
Royce is just a fun dude to have on your team
Feel like he was one of a few who played hard really even
He a good playoff role player sometimes he straight cash from 3
Probably also went that entire month without making a layup. Dude has negative touch when driving to the rim. Just chucks is straight off the backboard
It's pretty hilarious to see a bench player in the NBA making about $1 million less than the best player in the NHL (Connor McDavid). The difference in salaries is wild.
one third of immanuel quickley or jordan poole
Royce ONeale didn’t waste everyone’s time and bring a series back from 0-3 to Game 7 just to lose like McDavid. Royce ONeale just got swept and kept it moving. He deserves more as far as im concerned.
A true man of the people
Yeh because the NBA is more populr
Yes but they are also blowing away NFL contracts as well… That’s probably the better comparison.
NBA = more games and less players per roster
Yeah there are like 50+ players on an NFL roster and like 12 players on an NBA roster. Profit sharing my dude
The NFLPA is also incredibly weak compared to the NBAPA
But that again is a direct symptom of there being fewer players in the NBA.
Was gunna say… NFL makes an absurd amount of money… NBA doesn’t come close to it.
Yes but that doesn't dispute or change the fact that NFL teams have like 5x the players to pay. I think the NFL brings in twice the revenue the NBA does but having 12 guys vs 50+ to pay.
I mean Ben Simmons gets paid like Patrick Mahomes.
Only QBs are making NBA Star money
I mean the best contracts are actually in baseball, and I’d argue it’s equally or less popular. It’s all about how well the players negotiated in the past. The NFL has by far the worst contracts relative to its own sport
McDavid is goated but I'd probably take Royce on the ice over Darnell Nurse.
Just shows the power David stern did with his tenure, he made basketball global and in return players are now reaping those rewards. He was the first commissioner to truly see the value of having a players association with the owners. NHL is super exciting but yes besides playoffs I feel Like you don’t hear much about hockey lol but god damn is it fun to watch maybe NHL needs to do the same to get more TV rights?
Gary Bettman is just an awful, awful commissioner.
Jumping hard
huh
Any cap wizards care to explain how Suns are able to do this?
Bird Rights
Sorcery!
I'm not well versed in bird law, what sort of rights do they have
It’s no different than the spaghetti policy
Its pretty simple, all standard boilerplate
The right to bear wings
The right to fight like a crow
and eating 300m on tax
they are gonna blow past the 2nd apron and dont care about the penalties at that point its just a matter of re-signing their guys
Bird law
Bird rights let you resign players over the cap
We had bird rights, and frankly we should’ve gave him more to try and create a tradeable contract lol
Yeah im surprised you guys didnt give him a Bruce Brown type contract, but I guess there is a limit on how much Ishbia is willing to spend.
I dunno, Ishbia has been pretty notoriously willing to spend. If anything, I’d take this as a sign they intend to keep Royce for the long haul by making it more team friendly than tradeable.
You guys are going to be past the second apron to the point where any trades will be extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible. Pretty sure second apron teams can’t combine multiple players into a single trade, and more importantly any trade will require the salaries to match exactly
Hence the point. Whatever target we had, that’s what we should’ve signed Royce for so we could actually trade for someone to make a difference. Using Royce’s Bird Rights to sign his contract to match was pretty much our best option to upgrade / escape hell this season
That would require having a specific trade target in mind to have Royce’s contract match exactly. But since this is a new deal, I don’t think he’s eligible to be traded until December anyways. So I don’t think that strategy would really be that viable anyways. If that one target you designed Royce’s contract around is no longer available in December, it doesn’t really matter and you’re in the same position I think it’s more beneficial for the Suns to have Royce on a lower deal that is less of a burden towards the apron in future years, than to have given him an inflated contract just for the chance to trade him for one specific player later in the year
And add to that lack of draft picks to send with
We got the 2031 pick, plus the other second we just picked up too. That 2031 should be immensely valuable as of now because our team is gonna be shit in like 2-3 years let alone by 2031. Genuine first overall pick potential lmao
You gonna need that pick to dump Beal… Jk but who is out there you could realistically get and be worth 50m or whatever extra tax
If we could dump the shit out of Beal for that pick P L E A S E. Problem is it’s Beal nobody wants him, and he still has that no trade clause so we’re stuck on that one like a hostage situation. We either need a serviceable PG, or a big who can space. My first target would’ve been Brook Lopez who I feel like a damn near guaranteed 1st overall pick plus salary matching is more than fair for. Next up would just be to call up offices with disgruntled stars and see how low you can get a guy for because after Boston picked up Porzingis for next to nothing you never know.
Yeah I dunno what the point in digging a deeper hole. Should just look to salvage whatever you can get for KD if team isn’t doing well by the deadline.
That’s mostly right but not exactly. The salaries don’t have to match, we just can’t trade for a player who makes more than what we’re sending out. And you’re right about aggregating outgoing players, that’s off the table. We can’t include cash either. But we can trade one player for multiple players as long as their combined salaries don’t exceed the salary we’re sending out.
this guy reads CBA’s, good shit. Not that I don’t believe you, I’ve just heard so many contradicting statements regarding the whole thing it’s hard to understand what the hell we actually can do lol
Bird rights
Had his bird rights
Lucky for you I’m an expert in Bird Law 🦅
Bird rights
Owner got bank.
With full Bird rights, a team can offer a player up to the maximum salary allowed (up to five years with 8% annual raises), even if the team is over the salary cap. Bird rights reset when a player hits free agency and they transfer with a player in a trade, so it's basically how many years since this player was a free agent. Royce O'Neal's bird rights started accruing in Utah, got transferred along with him to Brooklyn, and again when he got traded to Phoenix.
Bird Law
Mortgage money machine go brrrr
It's just a write-off for Ishbia
Royce the type of player that no one talks about but when you see him you’re like ‘he nice’
More like "he's not bad." He's ok at everything you'd expect from a 3nD, not really great at anything. I'm sure 11M/year seems a bit much for people but these days that seems about right for a player who's a step above vet min guys
These guys are securing the Bag Left and Right.
Eh I’m partial a bit of Royce ball, he’s nice every time I’ve seen him but I also completely forgot he exists until this post
He’s a 3 and D player that is more like an average shooter and an average defender. Definition of meh
Yeah, the ones that are better than meh make 20M/year now though and the elite ones make 40M/year and get traded for 5 first rounders. For 11M, I'll take meh
**serviceable** /sûr′vĭ-sə-bəl/ adjective 1. Ready for service; usable. 1. *See* Royce O'Neale
But below Royce is total fuckin dogshit. I’ll take his $11m competent roleplayin ass all day errday. The drop off in the NBA is insane.
And to think this guy was somehow the second best defender on the Conley-Bojan Jazz team
11m/yr is a good deal for a solid rotation 3nD guy and with 4 years it will look better and better. There will definitely be worse contracts handed out this year for bench guys.
Agreed. Actually there already was with the Richaun Holmes deal
He can be streaky. When his shots are not falling, you wonder wtf is he playing
he's crazy clutch in KD/Kyrie last season
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I’d say he’s a better passer than most typical 3 & D guys, he also has his niche of being the Pump Fake God
You summed him up really well actually
Except he is a horrendous slasher/finisher. Zero threat going to the basket
Idk there’s good and there’s bad I went to a Bulls/Nets game he was wide open from 3 all game and went 0/12
That’s why you don’t let your 7th best player or something take 12 3s lol.
Yeah I remember that being posted on here, idk he’s above average I’d say but gets no attention
Ya he's the guy you put your worst defender on in the playoffs and just bet on him shooting poorly most games
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Oh shit I never knew he played there One of my fav EL teams to watch, beautiful team ball
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Ah gotcha thanks
Good for both sides, solid off-season for Phoenix so far
I’ve been happy with it. Banking on the coaching change doing most of the legwork but we brought in some actual athletes which will make this season more fun Hoping for a decent backup PG in free agency
This being 4 years is pretty rough for Phoenix imo. Royce is an okay role player now, but he’s 31. He’s probably going to be a non-contributor when he’s in the latter stages of that contract
Oh hes gonna suck in 4 years and it won’t be easy to trade but I don’t think they had many other options at this point
“Solid off-season” as they run it back to another first round exit lol. That being said however, they’re essentially fucked themselves so badly that they literally have no choice other than to run it back. Supporting that dumpster fire of an organization sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Probably, but the alternative is doing more mentally healthy things than watch bball and I am NOT doing that
Ball is life 🙏. You understand me bro 🤝. Fuck working our shitty-ass 9-5 jobs in order to make a living and fuck getting a social life. All that matters in life is how our basketball teams (which the only reason we support them is because we just so happened to grow up close to our basketball team’s location) perform.
Good god your post history.
Buddy we don't all have a Finals worthy roster lead by Luka Doncic. Our situation is as far from ideal as you can get, but at least the powers that be are trying to make it work instead of going full tank mode or selling the house for nothing.
lol downvoted for speaking the truth and shit talking the suns? wtf has this sub fallen to?
What did they do ?
Draft and this
Basically just this and turned 22 into Ryan Dunn, Oso Igadoro, and two future seconds. I guess we also picked up the option for David Roddy, which seems incredibly inconsequential
One future second, we use one to move up and get Oso
Yeah, the future second we burned was a top 45 protected Celtics 2nd though so kinda useless
Hard to imagine he wouldn't have atleast got MLE on the open market.
I think it is about the lenght of the contract for him. 44m in total is a nice package and insurance for him.
1 yr MLE vs guaranteed $44 million. Not a tough choice for a 35 yrs old role player
He’s 31. He will be 35 at the end of the contract lol.
Suns should’ve given him more this their only salary to trade
That's honestly better than I thought. 11m per year is good for a 3 and d guy.
~$11m for 35 year old Royce O'Neale seems a lot. Get the bag tho
He had all the leverage since Suns could only replace him with vet minimum players.
Guy just turned 31. So this deal will run through his 31/32/33/34 seasons.
Exactly, even if he's not great in 4 years, I think it's a good contact for both sides
$11m really shouldn’t be “too much” for a 34 year old Royce O’Neale. This contract is fair value for both sides.
By then $11m will be absolute peanuts
11m is practically peanuts now lmao
I would like some peanuts please 🤲🏽
11m can buy many peanuts
We have no other option to sign decent players, it was a must do for us.
I'm sure it's a descending deal that starts out high enough for him to be eligible to trade for players who signed an mle. Gotta have tradeable contracts to do anything
> ~$11m for 35 year old Royce O'Neale seems a lot. Guy who will be good for 20+ minutes a night with general good health in his career and plays defense. It's a good deal, even in his age 34 season.
34 and let’s not pretend like 11M is some grand amount in the NBA. it’s less than MLE.
Pretty sure it doesn't matter for the Suns,beyond Ishbia footing a higher tax bill
$11M will be so little in 4 years. MLE money is projected at $17M the final year of that contract $11M for him now is kind of a steal so it balances out
Seems fine, by that point he'll just be filler salary in a trade.
Lol definitely what the Suns are worried about is what their books will look like in 4 years. Good analysis bud.
Suns had to do it, or lose him for nothing.
It was always gonna be around this much if he returned. Makes him easier to trade later with the new 2nd apron rules
Solid 3&D starter in a hard-capped team that can't take new salaries
He’s 35????? I swear he came into the league like 6 years ago
Nah I mean at the end of this deal. He'll apparently only be 34 at the end of it because his birthday was recently
Royce: I want that PJ Tucker deal Agent: Bet, I'll get an extra year on it, too.
Royce is also like 8 years younger and a bit more capable and well rounded so
It was more so a joke on the AAV being almost identical to PJ's deal if anything not about Royce's effectiveness right now
Good for him for getting 4 years wow
Steal
Super solid deal.
Can someone explain how this is going down already I thought teams can’t negotiate until tommorow? And free agency began on July 6?
Teams are allowed to begin negotiating with their own free agents as soon as the Finals end
After the final day of the season (after the Celtics won) teams could start to negotiate with their own players. Tomorrow teams can start negotiating with any free agents, not just your own and contracts can be signed beginning of 6th July.
They changed it so now you can negotiate with your own free agents early.
With nba salaries it makes sense when you think about how many players can be in the league for the sport of basketball. If you aren’t the 7th best player on any team in the league you’re just good enough to be pursued and paid well. If you’re the 7th best player on an NFL roster you’re a goddamn fucking blue chip stud.
That's a lot of money for a 6'4" forward that was clearly showing signs of decline last season.
The alternative is vet minimum FAs.
I get it. It's just going to be underwater if he continues to decline
This whole franchise except for the guy whose initials are DB is going to be underwater this time next year. We only got one shot now.
Solid deal for Suns
pretty fair deal I'd say
crazy cheap deal.
That's about his value. Are you expecting him to get 20M/year?
Feel likes it’s cheap with the cap going up for a forward that’s solid. I expected 15m a year
Werent we gonna intentionally sign him for more for potential trade purposes in the future?
That’s a crazy good deal.
I like this
So, it'll be the five starters, O'Neal, and the rest of a G-League team? Have I got that correct?
Great deal
Pretty solid contract
His playoff numbers: 5 ppg on 32%/33%.0% splits, avging 5.5 FGA/gm in 26 min/gm. In gm 4 he played 37 minutes and shot 2-7. Meh
You know of FAs with a similar skillset and role that will take a minimum and have better?
Most overrated 3&D player
Attaboy Royce, get that bag.
Oh wow I actually like this contract to help Cleveland with Okoro. Pretty similar kinds of players.
Okoro is 23, Royce is 31. the two have nothing to do with each other.
Yeah. They have everything to do with each other. But troll on
Disagreeing isn’t what trolling is.
if Royce was eight years younger with the same skill set he’d get significantly more. the two aren’t comparable.
Why not test the free agent market to see if there is something else out there? If he doesn't care about winning he can probably get more money elsewhere and if he cares about winning he can find better opportunities elsewhere.
Suns have his Bird rights and are capped out and have essentially no other options to sign anyone aside from minimum contract players, I would think it's pretty unlikely anyone else would have offered him a larger contract overall.
KD traded confirmed
How the fuck can they afford so many players??
This will definitely be a bad contract the last two years
I'd bet on him getting traded before his contract expires. Doubt he's with the Suns all 4 years.
who?
Donovan Mitchell put this guy on the map btw
All of that just to get swept again in the 1st round? What a terrible deal
Hey some teams lose in the 1st round the season before they win the Finals 😁 a guy can dream