Not necessarily. Often the gap narrows as other teams catch up a bit physically and get more used to higher competition. The USA will definitely still be heavy heavy favourites especially with this class but the higher in age group the more the gap narrows
is the US known for having more physically mature kids? why would the gap narrow as they get older? usually, the opposite occurs as slight edges accumulate over time.
Cant say for sure but as an outsider it always baffles me how u18 US athletes always look the most physically mature out there. Are they eating other smaller kids is that it
Have you seen zion age 16?
Depends on playstyle as well I think. I used to play soccer in The Netherlands when I was a kid, which was a lot more based on technique and tactics, but when we played against Celtic (Scotland) in an international tournament, they played a lot more physical than we ever encountered and their players were massive as well compared to most of our players since that suited their style.
A similar thing happened to me playing rugby in the US in high school. We were a bunch of jacked up American football players who had played rugby for a couple years as an offseason sport. We just wanted to hit. We played an Argentinian travel team who trotted out like 10 quick little 5'8" boys. Our pack easily had 1000 pounds on them. We thought we'd have a chance if we could impose ourselves physically. Instead the Argentinian team spent the whole game kicking around us and then falling down before going into a tackle, then recycling the ball before much of a ruck formed. They outskilled us significantly and we could never actually get a clean hit on them. In the second half they subbed on 5 more quick little 5'8" guys who were just as skilled. The fresh legs nullified any wear and tear we had been able to deliver. They dominated us, winning the game by like 30 points. It was pretty stark to see how their superior skills and drilling could nullify the physical differences.
just looked up the pictures for both u17 rosters (canada and US) and the players all look like normal teenagers to me. Canada has more range in height since the shortest player on their team is 5ft 10 and the tallest is 7ft 7 while the us is all 6ft 3 - 6ft 10.
These kids are definitely more physically developed than normal but thats true for all athletic kids at high levels and is especially true for basketball since it selects for height more than any other sport in the world. US' main advantage over Canada is having a 9x larger pool of athletes to draw from and that advantage isn't going to dissipate as the kids get older.
Right, but the advantage does dissipate somewhat as they get older, because there’s no age constraint at the senior level
There may only be a single world class talent in any given year from a country like Canada (if that), but when those single talents from each year can combine, the depth of the talent pool doesn’t matter, it’s only about the players at the top. Sure Dillon Brooks is a much worse player than say, Kawhi, but the gap between them is still significantly smaller than a bunch of the top college recruits in the US, and the Canadians who are largely happy just to go D1
The US has the same advantage of being able to combine their most talented players onto the same team as well? Again, we tend to see more seperability at the top, not less.
US having a larger talent pool doesn't just mean they have more depth of talent but also better talent at the top. It's just that this Canadian national team is one of if not the best Canadian team the country has produced, so it creates the illusion that the talent evens out more when that hasn't been the case historically.
Pictures don't really show the difference. When you actually watch them play, see them side by side it becomes more obvious. It's also more obvious when they're playing and the US players are able to physically move their opponents wherever they want on the court due to their strength advantage.
But ya I agree that the advantage comes from being able to select and train kids from one of the most diverse nations with the 3rd largest population in the world.
In a sense, yes they are eating smaller kids. We are well known for having a high obesity rate, large portion sizes comparative to the rest of the world, and a high meat(protein) intake compared to the rest of the world. In those of us that aren't active, the diet turns into the obesity rate. In a high level athlete that's hitting the weight room every day, that translates into 17 year olds that are as developed as the rest of the worlds 20 year olds. Everyone at that level has access to great nutrition around the world, but when your culture includes eating portions twice the size as everyone else, you're gonna end up bigger
I’d assume wider interest in the sport, it’s more likely you’ll get early developers if you’ve got a bigger pool + they’re the most likely to get scouted out of the group. Eventually it evens out more as other keep developing and growing
Well no, generally speaking as players get more experienced the ones who are already good get a lot better than their peers. Players start off mostly similar when they are young and get more and more seperation from the general pool as they get older.
In any sport kids who develop earlier will have an advantage but this advantage doesn't disproportionately help America vs other countries. You have to remember there are tons of american kids as well with a ton of talent going through puberty later than their peers who will also benefit from getting older. The main advantage of having a larger pool of players to draw from is gonna still be there as the players get older.
Comparing USA & Canada assuming both countries have a large population and similar developmental rates you’ll definitely have more of these early developers in whichever population is larger. Developing the necessary skills also evens out the playing field, if the general level of play is lower then physical attributes end up mattering even more.
Playing field also evens out because of development “capping out”, the pool of people who had their growth spurt at 17 is bound to be less than the pool of people who had their growth sport from 13-20 for any final fully developed height.
I would assume the same thing that occurs in soccer. Smaller countries best 17 year old probably isn't on the 17u they are already on the national team or a pro team
I'd say that the marginal benefit of raw athleticism decreases with age. For younger kids, the advantage of raw athleticism is really big since that's essentially all they have. Once folks start training and learning, those raw physical advantages are less of a big deal.
For example of you took the top 50 US players and the top 50 Canadian players and put them through a decade of the same training. You would likely see a much smaller gap in ability between the two groups than you did at the beginning.
Largest pool to choose from, greatest number of physical specimens to choose from. It’s a math problem at that age, because other countries best players are just much more likely to still be developing physically.
It's just obvious on sight.
They'll all improve physically with age but there'll be diminishing returns with a bunch of the US players as they're already mostly filled out.
Canada's most obvious example of a player with advanced size and diminishing future returns was Anthony Bennett. His body remained essentially unchanged into adulthood.
The US team has both tremendous size in height and strength. Most of the big Canadian players have the height but are incredibly thin as you'd normally expect for kids that age. Players like Illic, Meyer, Animali, Wal all have decent length, athleticism but severely lack strength.
Canadas best big prospect Osaruyi does have the length and strength but played a bit soft.. I suspect he might be injured in some way bc he missed a few early games in the tourney and didn't log many minutes in the ones he did play.
However, team USA is not just physically better, they're also more skilled as a roster. Canada has a couple of high skill players but not enough to truly compete at this point.
It's not that the gap is narrowing but most of the top USA guys don't play in more than one U event because of timing. Why play in the u19 when you're headed to the draft?
We may just have significantly more kids. Gives us the odds at more big mature ones. Lotta these dudes are sons of former players too, which I’m sure helps.
Not sure about most schools but my friend played open division vs ball brothers and its pretty common that kids are held back a year just so they compete at one age older than regular freshmen.
gap also narrows because you only need 5 players out there. It's easier to find just 5 good ones in a country of any age, but 5 below 17 it causes countries with a lot of players and systems for them to play from a younger age to have a huge advantage.
Like how team USA is favoured in the Olympics but the best 4 players in the world are not American.
Can confirm. When I was in 8th grade we played in the smallest class in basketball, but had one of the better teams in the state for our grade. Went to bigger tourneys and beat a lot of the bigger schools and such (this was before AAU got really big). We were faster and more athletic than everyone else. Fast-forward to highschool and none of us grew very much only had a couple kids over 6 foot. We weren't very good.
Must be a harsh moment for those other teams. You are one of the best players in your country. You probably watch a lot of NBA highlights and allow yourself to dream, 'I'm good enough. I can get to that level.'
Then you get completely mauled by this USA team. Wake up call.
I grew up in China, my favorite player and idol was the lead PG of the Chinese National team. He was the shit.
I remembered thinking maybe my man was not an all star in the NBA, but surely he could start for some contending teams. An elite six man at worst, only if he was given the opportunity. Fucking racist GMs.
Then God Shammgod decided to show up in the CBA one season.
Shammgod made my man trumble around like he was playing Twister in back to back to back possessions. I remembered at half time, my guy just stood under the basket and had that thousand yard stare. Our little group was in utter shock. Like this dude was not even in the league?!!
Broke my heart, but made me focus on maths and physics, so it kinda worked out for me in the long run.
I had the reverse experience, I was the best ping pong player among my friend group in high school, then I went to college and joined the "table tennis club" thinking it would be a great confidence builder. NOPE, played against a kid from China for the first time and never came back.
Yeah, not surprised.
I was at a corporate challenge, I got assigned as a ref for Ping Pong. It was literally 75% Asian participation.
And the few Beckys and Jimmys got slaughtered double quick by Asian milfs and dad bodes. None made it past the initial round.
And Hockey in Canada was tough as fuck as well. My best friend was literally D1 in Hockey in China. Not regular run of the mill D1 player either, he led all rookies in goals in Chinese equivalent of NCAA. Came over during Junior year, I got him the very best Hockey stick money can buy. He went to a community game and got absolutely destroyed by middle aged accountants and never used that stick again. His career was over.
He was still the fastest skater, but he can't turn nearly as well, and had zero idea about Canadian checking.
He held his own in Canadian basketball though, Massive putback dunked on my boss out of nowhere. I was worried about my career for a second.
I can laugh about it now, but at the time, it felt like that scene in Independence Day when the Aliens spaceship blew up the Whitehouse.
Every Chinese fan was asking, how could we beat that?!!
Turns out the answer was Yao Ming.
I'm sure the US forced around 20 of them though. It's not like every turn over is a straight up pass to the other team. And no way Chinese 16 year olds have seen athleticism like the IS squad before.
Edit US
Yeah, I thought Team China would do good since they beat the Frenchies, then they spent the next game looking for their teeth that were kicked out of their face.
OKC is not even in their final form yet.. Scary thought
coincidentally, he just had a good game in helping the philippines upset latvia the other day: https://www.espn.ph/basketball/gilas/story/_/id/40489770/gilas-pilipinas-pull-stunning-upset-latvia-keep-olympic-dream-well-alive
thus fueling 2 more years of unhinged filipino basketball fan instagram comments
I played with a guy like that in middle school lol, idk about 225 but he was definitely 6’5” and jacked for his age. He sucked ass at basketball but somehow still got a scholarship
This is just a comment that sprung to mind since you had to clarify the kid is isn’t fat….but It’s weird to me how skewed some people view weights for athletic people…and I guess they also don’t scale for height that well. That’s a solid kid to be sure but at that height 225 isn’t close to fat. I guess the NBA sub is a little different than, say the football sub though, since NBA guys almost always underreport weight and do not update it after high school. (Some are almost comical like a 6’10 guy listed at 180 or something. He would be see through lol)
They’re twins and both on the team and both really good. The other one just didn’t get a growth spurt though, maybe he still will. Cam is 6’9, Cayden is only 6’4.
I have a twin sister (I’m a man) and growing up from like ages 9 to 12 my sister was taller than me by a few inches, it sucked. Then I got my growth spurt and I shot all the way up to 5’5!! While my sister stayed 5’2. Now it feels so good to tower over her ;)
And then add AJ Dybanasta who might actually be the number 1 pick over boozer in 2026 and a bunch of other 5 star guys and it’s just 80 point blow out after 80 point blow out every game.
Maybe that will be the new Meta in a few years.
Get 15 Dawgs and just full press with the reserves, then send in the starters as strike teams to Shock and Awe.
Um, a jump shooting team winning a championship was thought to be impossible 20 years back, you never know.
I think that one OKC team with
Russ - Roberson - KD - Ibaka - Adam
had that swarming quality to it. Just relentless and long arms everywhere. If Roberson could have shot slightly better, they would have taken the Warriors out. Even today, he could be reliably replaced by some other role player.
Swarming in the half court is very different than full court with double the square footage to cover.
Full court at higher levels of play gets broken down easily and leads to very easy buckets after spending a tremendous amount of energy.
Way harder to play this type of defense in the NBA. Mostly because the ball-handling skill is so much higher, almost everyone can bring the ball up against tight 1 on 1 defense. You could send two defenders to stop the ball, but a good outlet pass leads to a 4 on 3 situation in favor of the offense.
I think athletic teams can press as a change of pace to try and force a couple quick turnovers, but once the other team realizes what you're doing you'll be giving up a lot of easy baskets. Plus its tiring as hell to play this way, hard to imagine any team being able to keep that up 48 minutes/game over a playoff series.
College basketball have had full pressing nonstop teams for decades. We all know it’s strength and weaknesses. An example was the mid 2010’s West Virginian teams. It’s not feasible in the NBA because guards are that skilled. Guards already know how to deal with full pressing
What kind of shitty comparison is that? You’re talking about a style of play changing throughout the decades, while the point is that such a gap in talent between 2 NBA teams is impossible as of yet
The league going from non-shooting to shooting doesn’t change anything about parity
Just like it takes a special shooting team like the Warriors to make people believe winning through shooting is possible, and that changed the meta of the league, it may take a special, super athletic and 15 men deep team to make the league believe that style may be viable.
Once people saw how the Warriors played, the change in style was relatively fast. The Warriors style of play would be considered the norm these days.
And OKC almost beat the slightly more talented Warrior team through energy and length, so talent parity is not the main factor here.
With the right team make up, and sufficient talent on top, I would like to see a team try this.
Shooting is a skill though, defense requires a aloooot of energy. We saw what happened to Ant when he tried to chase Kyrie around he was gassed on offense. This will never be a viable scheme because teams will run out of gas.
Um, I think you are probably right.
With that said, I would still like to see some deep, athletic, and long teams try it, not for the full game, but for short sprints of shock and awe, or even closing out the game.
If you recall, even the Warriors had a traditional lineup, with traditional centers such as Bogut, etc. The Death Lineup was used at opportune times and produced tremendous results. Some teams can use the same time management, actually my team can try it.
Say if we are playing some second unit, with a shakey backup PG, and we put out:
Smart - Bane - Vince Williams Jr - Lamar Stevens - JJJ. Before the other team calls a timeout, we can overwhelm lots of teams defensively for a solid 3-4 minutes
Say if Pera says fuck the aprons, I am gonna take 3 of them, and we managed to trade/sign some OG/Bridges level defender to replace Stevens, who is to say
Ja - Bane - VWJ - OG - JJJ would not work as a closing unit as a defensive orientated juggernaut. It might even work out if GG focuses on D, our Prince is only 19 years old, builds like LeBron and shoots like TMac, what if he defends like Tony Allen?
Fun to think about, no?
It is a fun thing to think about, but teams do already use the press in short/desperate situations. IIRC, the Toronto Raptors used it in their 30+ point comeback against the Mavericks a few years ago. I'm sure there are other examples of teams using a press in small spurts to surprise other teams. The issue, however, is that if you are consistently using the press, teams will plan for it. While this can work in college, NBA players are too good at controlling the ball. Like, Jokic is a press-break cheat code.
I think teams are sticking to the 9-10 men rotation like it is the ten commandments.
With the deeper talent pool and better training method, would some GM try to team build a 15 men lineup with focus on defense, length, athleticism, short minutes, and all out effort?
And I am not saying do it for the whole game, or always full court. Just make on-ball pressure a priority, and balls to the wall defensive efforts a requirement.
It is like me with Muay Thai, opening round, I am sharp, I am moving around, I slip punches and check kicks, but by round 4, my old ass can't keep with the youngins, and will often get lit up. It was a very desperate feeling.
Quickley is a good ball handler, but what if he battled Vince Williams Jr and that new Psycho White boy Cam Spencer all game, both giving foaming at the mouth efforts, then when it is 10 minutes left, and he looks up, it is Marcus Smart at the half court only played 16 minute prior and with 5 fouls to give.
And if you build a team for that to be true for all 5 positions. Most teams are not ready to deal with that depth/effort deficiency, the same way most teams were not equipped to deal with the Warriors with shooting at all positions a decade back.
To catch up with the team building, it will take a couple seasons or longer.
It is almost prudent for us to try that at the G league level as a Proof of Concept.
Fun to think about but you also need to score/gets dead ball situation to set up the press in the first place, not a lot of scoring going on in that lineup.
> With that said, I would still like to see some deep, athletic, and long teams try it, not for the full game, but for short sprints of shock and awe, or even closing out the game.
It’s like… every nba team uses this tactic against GSW…
I’ve never fully understood why more NBA teams don’t run a full court press. I don’t think you could run it all game, every game, but it can be just as useful, if not more useful, as a change of pace defense as a 2-3 zone I see quite a few teams running nowadays.
I’ve always felt like the NBA does a better job than the NFL at integrating lower level schemes in to high level games, but this is definitely something they’re slacking on. It feels like almost every year a team makes a deep run in the NCAA tourney off the back of the full court press. That tells me that the foundation is there for it to work, but I’d imagine it has more to do with buy in from the pros, especially the all stars. A good FCP can be devastating, but one guy not being completely locked in means the other team has a free layup on the other end. That’d be tough for just about anyone in the NBA over the course of 82+ games.
Can't look for it right now, but there is a clip on youtube that I stumble across occasionally of Kyrie when he was 19 on the USA Select team scrimmaging against Team USA and Kobe and Durant try to trap him full court.
Sure, it's just practice, but it's also Kobe and Durant and Kyrie is just a kid, but it illustrates extremely well why a full court press can't work against NBA point guards.
It worked a couple times in this playoffs if I’m not mistaken. Again, not a full time coverage for sure, but it can certainly swing momentum in couple minute spurts, especially if you’re a deep team that can put 5 absolute dogs on the court like the Knicks/Pacers/Celtics can.
U19 is a bit difference since as far as I can tell, the US often sends a group they isn't anything close to their "A" team.
For example, in that game against Turkey, Tobe Awaka led the team in minutes with 30. The same Awaka that was coming off averaging 3 points and 4 rebounds in 10 minutes per game with Tennessee.
Usa never had a talent drought . It’s just guys getting hurt. AD and Zion careers got heavily diminished by constant injuries . Ja too with injuries n controversy but he’s not an mvp talent to me like the other two . When you think about Zion injuries ( and even Davis) it’s quite easy to understand why it looks like America is weaker cos there mvp lvl
Players got injured n limited . Then immediately after you had lamelo and Ant, lamelo hurt by injuries too he’s a legit offensive dynamo .
I mean, US is a huge country so obviously it will generate good players, but I still contend there's been a noticeable dropoff. Look at the team USA roster and the number of guys over 30. Also, the injury thing you could argue is the direct result of AAU and how many games it forces young guys to play.
The only reason team USA has a ton of guys over 30 is because the older guys are still really good and have seniority. Guys like Ja, Brunson, Banchero, Trae, Brown, etc could all play and be really good.
Well the answer is we’re seeing unprecedented longevity from the older guys lmao. Like LeBron, Curry and KD are all still playing at ridiculously high levels and are arguably top 5-10 players. It’s more of a testament to the old generation than it is an indictment of the new gen.
Injuries have always and will always be a thing in sports. I don't think the USA has a talent drought but it's also 100% true that many other countries have had a significant rise in the talent they've been producing.
>US talent drought is officially over.
Looking at Dybantsa, Flagg, Boozer, Peat, Traore, Bailey coming into the NBA.....and obviously, we have Chet, Zion, and Banchero right now as proven players...
In theory, this is like Lebron-Wade-CP3-Carmelo-Dwight reinforcing players like T-Mac, Kobe, Amare, etc. Might take them until 2028 to become some new Dream Team but the talent is there.
You might actually be right, especially given his surname. I might be confusing him with the other guard who is going to Rutgers
Either way, there's potential for good American talent coming in to replace the old era
I didn’t think they needed to. When they mentioned one team is U-17, I figured it was common sense to assume all teams are U-17
Edit: you know what? I think I’m in the minority with that assumption after reading other comments. I just thought it was common sense a bunch of 16-17 year olds weren’t dominating a team full of actual pros
There are still flaws in the US youth development system compared to Europe, but they are being addressed quickly. The idea of G League Ignite (even though it is abolished), the introduction of NIL, and even some college teams play matches against professional clubs around the world, all shows that the US basketball administrators is acting quickly to retain the superiority of US basketball.
Europe has had a strong generation and has taught us a lot about how to play the game but the US still has a massive talent pool. Not that I expect Europe to stop pumping out high end talent but I do think we'll see our bigs catch up on the skill front.
It's also kind of a foregone conclusion even if you imagine the culture/process to be equal as far as cultivating talent - Canada is not particularly populous, it'd be like 49 states going up against California in an all-star game.
Yeah they have talent of course, but there's a 9 to 1 advantage in talent pool.
oh man, you had me thrown with the title. I thought it was Team Canada playing an exhibition game against the u17 US team lol
probably should add the 'u17' qualifier to both for idiots like me
Hell yeah I'm rooting so hard for Dybansta. First person from my home town since fucking Marvin Hagler to get big. I hope he's the next big star in the NBA.
I really believe if there’s a flaw in US basketball development, it’s in how different the collegiate game is from the NBA because our youth have put belt to ass for as long as I can remember
USA doesnt produce fundamentally sound players and international players are more skilled has gotta be the two dumbest argument in the world. These guys cant handle the ball for jack anything.
They beat them 118-36 last year when they were u16
And it was in the final. It’s not like Canada was ass
I guess u18 tournament will be the same outcome, and u19, u20.
Not necessarily. Often the gap narrows as other teams catch up a bit physically and get more used to higher competition. The USA will definitely still be heavy heavy favourites especially with this class but the higher in age group the more the gap narrows
is the US known for having more physically mature kids? why would the gap narrow as they get older? usually, the opposite occurs as slight edges accumulate over time.
Cant say for sure but as an outsider it always baffles me how u18 US athletes always look the most physically mature out there. Are they eating other smaller kids is that it Have you seen zion age 16?
Depends on playstyle as well I think. I used to play soccer in The Netherlands when I was a kid, which was a lot more based on technique and tactics, but when we played against Celtic (Scotland) in an international tournament, they played a lot more physical than we ever encountered and their players were massive as well compared to most of our players since that suited their style.
A similar thing happened to me playing rugby in the US in high school. We were a bunch of jacked up American football players who had played rugby for a couple years as an offseason sport. We just wanted to hit. We played an Argentinian travel team who trotted out like 10 quick little 5'8" boys. Our pack easily had 1000 pounds on them. We thought we'd have a chance if we could impose ourselves physically. Instead the Argentinian team spent the whole game kicking around us and then falling down before going into a tackle, then recycling the ball before much of a ruck formed. They outskilled us significantly and we could never actually get a clean hit on them. In the second half they subbed on 5 more quick little 5'8" guys who were just as skilled. The fresh legs nullified any wear and tear we had been able to deliver. They dominated us, winning the game by like 30 points. It was pretty stark to see how their superior skills and drilling could nullify the physical differences.
just looked up the pictures for both u17 rosters (canada and US) and the players all look like normal teenagers to me. Canada has more range in height since the shortest player on their team is 5ft 10 and the tallest is 7ft 7 while the us is all 6ft 3 - 6ft 10. These kids are definitely more physically developed than normal but thats true for all athletic kids at high levels and is especially true for basketball since it selects for height more than any other sport in the world. US' main advantage over Canada is having a 9x larger pool of athletes to draw from and that advantage isn't going to dissipate as the kids get older.
Right, but the advantage does dissipate somewhat as they get older, because there’s no age constraint at the senior level There may only be a single world class talent in any given year from a country like Canada (if that), but when those single talents from each year can combine, the depth of the talent pool doesn’t matter, it’s only about the players at the top. Sure Dillon Brooks is a much worse player than say, Kawhi, but the gap between them is still significantly smaller than a bunch of the top college recruits in the US, and the Canadians who are largely happy just to go D1
The US has the same advantage of being able to combine their most talented players onto the same team as well? Again, we tend to see more seperability at the top, not less. US having a larger talent pool doesn't just mean they have more depth of talent but also better talent at the top. It's just that this Canadian national team is one of if not the best Canadian team the country has produced, so it creates the illusion that the talent evens out more when that hasn't been the case historically.
Pictures don't really show the difference. When you actually watch them play, see them side by side it becomes more obvious. It's also more obvious when they're playing and the US players are able to physically move their opponents wherever they want on the court due to their strength advantage. But ya I agree that the advantage comes from being able to select and train kids from one of the most diverse nations with the 3rd largest population in the world.
>the tallest is 7 ft 7 ??? What do you even do with a 7’7” football player
In a sense, yes they are eating smaller kids. We are well known for having a high obesity rate, large portion sizes comparative to the rest of the world, and a high meat(protein) intake compared to the rest of the world. In those of us that aren't active, the diet turns into the obesity rate. In a high level athlete that's hitting the weight room every day, that translates into 17 year olds that are as developed as the rest of the worlds 20 year olds. Everyone at that level has access to great nutrition around the world, but when your culture includes eating portions twice the size as everyone else, you're gonna end up bigger
I’d assume wider interest in the sport, it’s more likely you’ll get early developers if you’ve got a bigger pool + they’re the most likely to get scouted out of the group. Eventually it evens out more as other keep developing and growing
Well no, generally speaking as players get more experienced the ones who are already good get a lot better than their peers. Players start off mostly similar when they are young and get more and more seperation from the general pool as they get older. In any sport kids who develop earlier will have an advantage but this advantage doesn't disproportionately help America vs other countries. You have to remember there are tons of american kids as well with a ton of talent going through puberty later than their peers who will also benefit from getting older. The main advantage of having a larger pool of players to draw from is gonna still be there as the players get older.
Comparing USA & Canada assuming both countries have a large population and similar developmental rates you’ll definitely have more of these early developers in whichever population is larger. Developing the necessary skills also evens out the playing field, if the general level of play is lower then physical attributes end up mattering even more. Playing field also evens out because of development “capping out”, the pool of people who had their growth spurt at 17 is bound to be less than the pool of people who had their growth sport from 13-20 for any final fully developed height.
I would assume the same thing that occurs in soccer. Smaller countries best 17 year old probably isn't on the 17u they are already on the national team or a pro team
oh that makes sense actually. I'm not sure how it works in canada but the best european players like Luka were already pro by the time they were 16.
I'd say that the marginal benefit of raw athleticism decreases with age. For younger kids, the advantage of raw athleticism is really big since that's essentially all they have. Once folks start training and learning, those raw physical advantages are less of a big deal. For example of you took the top 50 US players and the top 50 Canadian players and put them through a decade of the same training. You would likely see a much smaller gap in ability between the two groups than you did at the beginning.
Canada has the population of California. US has 10x the population total and a much larger interest in the sport.
Largest pool to choose from, greatest number of physical specimens to choose from. It’s a math problem at that age, because other countries best players are just much more likely to still be developing physically.
Very few places and very few few sports outside of Tennis and Soccer receive that kind of attention and training for a teenagerin rest of the world.
yes that has been the case for the past couple of decades
It's just obvious on sight. They'll all improve physically with age but there'll be diminishing returns with a bunch of the US players as they're already mostly filled out. Canada's most obvious example of a player with advanced size and diminishing future returns was Anthony Bennett. His body remained essentially unchanged into adulthood. The US team has both tremendous size in height and strength. Most of the big Canadian players have the height but are incredibly thin as you'd normally expect for kids that age. Players like Illic, Meyer, Animali, Wal all have decent length, athleticism but severely lack strength. Canadas best big prospect Osaruyi does have the length and strength but played a bit soft.. I suspect he might be injured in some way bc he missed a few early games in the tourney and didn't log many minutes in the ones he did play. However, team USA is not just physically better, they're also more skilled as a roster. Canada has a couple of high skill players but not enough to truly compete at this point.
American kids are eating good lol
It's not that the gap is narrowing but most of the top USA guys don't play in more than one U event because of timing. Why play in the u19 when you're headed to the draft?
We may just have significantly more kids. Gives us the odds at more big mature ones. Lotta these dudes are sons of former players too, which I’m sure helps.
Not sure about most schools but my friend played open division vs ball brothers and its pretty common that kids are held back a year just so they compete at one age older than regular freshmen.
gap also narrows because you only need 5 players out there. It's easier to find just 5 good ones in a country of any age, but 5 below 17 it causes countries with a lot of players and systems for them to play from a younger age to have a huge advantage. Like how team USA is favoured in the Olympics but the best 4 players in the world are not American.
Can confirm. When I was in 8th grade we played in the smallest class in basketball, but had one of the better teams in the state for our grade. Went to bigger tourneys and beat a lot of the bigger schools and such (this was before AAU got really big). We were faster and more athletic than everyone else. Fast-forward to highschool and none of us grew very much only had a couple kids over 6 foot. We weren't very good.
The U.S. tends to have less of an "A" team each year as well, as players have alternative commitments.
LeBron suiting up for the u40 team
This years team seems more like the over 30 team
Probably, the top guys stop playing after U17 pretty often though.
Is this a typo?? edit: holy shit no it's not. Wtf...
They had been slaughtering everyone, beating China by 80 and the Philippines by almost 100.
I think China had like 30 turnovers.
Yeah, they probably had not seen that kind of ball pressure. I think the US team is doing that to everyone though.
Yeah, they’re playing full court press even up by 50. For the training I’d guess.
Probably conditioning and also showing how willing the kids are to do unfun things.
When you’re getting tons of turnovers pressing is probably fun. It only sucks if it’s not working and you’re wearing yourself out for nothing.
It's to humiliate the opponent and remind the rest of the world who the real world champions are
Must be a harsh moment for those other teams. You are one of the best players in your country. You probably watch a lot of NBA highlights and allow yourself to dream, 'I'm good enough. I can get to that level.' Then you get completely mauled by this USA team. Wake up call.
I grew up in China, my favorite player and idol was the lead PG of the Chinese National team. He was the shit. I remembered thinking maybe my man was not an all star in the NBA, but surely he could start for some contending teams. An elite six man at worst, only if he was given the opportunity. Fucking racist GMs. Then God Shammgod decided to show up in the CBA one season. Shammgod made my man trumble around like he was playing Twister in back to back to back possessions. I remembered at half time, my guy just stood under the basket and had that thousand yard stare. Our little group was in utter shock. Like this dude was not even in the league?!! Broke my heart, but made me focus on maths and physics, so it kinda worked out for me in the long run.
I had the reverse experience, I was the best ping pong player among my friend group in high school, then I went to college and joined the "table tennis club" thinking it would be a great confidence builder. NOPE, played against a kid from China for the first time and never came back.
Yeah, not surprised. I was at a corporate challenge, I got assigned as a ref for Ping Pong. It was literally 75% Asian participation. And the few Beckys and Jimmys got slaughtered double quick by Asian milfs and dad bodes. None made it past the initial round. And Hockey in Canada was tough as fuck as well. My best friend was literally D1 in Hockey in China. Not regular run of the mill D1 player either, he led all rookies in goals in Chinese equivalent of NCAA. Came over during Junior year, I got him the very best Hockey stick money can buy. He went to a community game and got absolutely destroyed by middle aged accountants and never used that stick again. His career was over. He was still the fastest skater, but he can't turn nearly as well, and had zero idea about Canadian checking. He held his own in Canadian basketball though, Massive putback dunked on my boss out of nowhere. I was worried about my career for a second.
Thanks for sharing, this story is hilarious to me, even if unintentional
I can laugh about it now, but at the time, it felt like that scene in Independence Day when the Aliens spaceship blew up the Whitehouse. Every Chinese fan was asking, how could we beat that?!! Turns out the answer was Yao Ming.
Imagine being the star in your country. No one even is close and you face these guys that make you look like you havent hoop in your life lol
Bro you didn't have to go and make it sad for all of us
I'm sure the US forced around 20 of them though. It's not like every turn over is a straight up pass to the other team. And no way Chinese 16 year olds have seen athleticism like the IS squad before. Edit US
what about the ISIS squad tho?
The Islamic caliphate team didn't qualify.
They bombed in the semis
They had the lead and then literally self-destructed.
sanctions
This is why I just write what I want edited and don't change it lol
France actually gave them a run for money and then lost to China
Yeah, I thought Team China would do good since they beat the Frenchies, then they spent the next game looking for their teeth that were kicked out of their face. OKC is not even in their final form yet.. Scary thought
Kai Sotto with the huge 3 to cut the lead to 97
Where is my man Sotto these days? If NBA is currently unrealistic, I would love to see him in the CBA. There is money to be made
He ain't even good enough for that lol
coincidentally, he just had a good game in helping the philippines upset latvia the other day: https://www.espn.ph/basketball/gilas/story/_/id/40489770/gilas-pilipinas-pull-stunning-upset-latvia-keep-olympic-dream-well-alive thus fueling 2 more years of unhinged filipino basketball fan instagram comments
He's being recruited by 5 25 NBA teams to be their starting Center but he refuses to leave Japan.
Nets are in prime position to tank 2 years and get their Tatum-Brown combo they should’ve gotten 10 years ago 😂
Cam Boozer looks like a grown man.
If you listen, you can hear his father yelling!
HOLDAT!!!
GET THAT SHIT!
GET THAT SHIT JO!
And if you squint just a bit, you can picture Thibs in that voice
His gravelly bark always gets caught on the mic
GET UP! GET UP! GET UP!
I play with a kid like this. He’s like 16 and easily the best dunker at my gym. He’s probably 6’4” and 225 already and not fat. It’s kinda crazy.
> 16 > He’s probably 6’4” and 225 already and not fat. Is he not a 5 star recruit in at least 1 sport?
Don’t know him that well, but maybe? He’s super aggressive in the paint and gets a lot of dunks, but doesn’t have a good jumper yet.
I played with a guy like that in middle school lol, idk about 225 but he was definitely 6’5” and jacked for his age. He sucked ass at basketball but somehow still got a scholarship
"somehow" i think you answered that mystery bud lol
This is just a comment that sprung to mind since you had to clarify the kid is isn’t fat….but It’s weird to me how skewed some people view weights for athletic people…and I guess they also don’t scale for height that well. That’s a solid kid to be sure but at that height 225 isn’t close to fat. I guess the NBA sub is a little different than, say the football sub though, since NBA guys almost always underreport weight and do not update it after high school. (Some are almost comical like a 6’10 guy listed at 180 or something. He would be see through lol)
That’s an outrageous build for 16
Sounds like he has potential to be a linebacker or tight end too.
Wait is this Carlos’ son?
They’re twins and both on the team and both really good. The other one just didn’t get a growth spurt though, maybe he still will. Cam is 6’9, Cayden is only 6’4.
Lol imagine being 5 inches shorter than your twin
I know. It must suck. He’s really good but he’s like 20 spots lower than his brother on 2026 big boards cuz 6’9 is just so much more enticing.
The funny thing is - he's 17 on ESPNs Top 100 while Cameron is #2. Not too bad for being the much shorter twin
I have a twin sister (I’m a man) and growing up from like ages 9 to 12 my sister was taller than me by a few inches, it sucked. Then I got my growth spurt and I shot all the way up to 5’5!! While my sister stayed 5’2. Now it feels so good to tower over her ;)
this sounds like a nightmare for opposing teams lol
One of the games, every other play the commentator was just like “boozer to boozer for the ferocious slam” in an Australian accent. It was great.
And then add AJ Dybanasta who might actually be the number 1 pick over boozer in 2026 and a bunch of other 5 star guys and it’s just 80 point blow out after 80 point blow out every game.
That is wild I didn’t even know that was possible for twins. I always thought twins of the same sex we’re basically the same height
They're fraternal
I guess they meant they weren't aware fraternal twins could be of the same sex
Yup
Bro was born in 2007 wtf
It helps to be over a foot taller than more than half the grown men on the planet.
They full press every games I watch, from France to Philipnes and China...
Press is super effective if you just want to win quickly and there is a huge gap in talent. You see it in high school often.
Still common in college It's just NBA PGs are really, really good
Maybe that will be the new Meta in a few years. Get 15 Dawgs and just full press with the reserves, then send in the starters as strike teams to Shock and Awe.
It requires an insane gap in talent and skill between the two rosters. Not feasible or realistic to see it in the NBA
IDk, Rick Pitino seemed to get his teams to outplay their talent using similar methods.
Um, a jump shooting team winning a championship was thought to be impossible 20 years back, you never know. I think that one OKC team with Russ - Roberson - KD - Ibaka - Adam had that swarming quality to it. Just relentless and long arms everywhere. If Roberson could have shot slightly better, they would have taken the Warriors out. Even today, he could be reliably replaced by some other role player.
Swarming in the half court is very different than full court with double the square footage to cover. Full court at higher levels of play gets broken down easily and leads to very easy buckets after spending a tremendous amount of energy.
Way harder to play this type of defense in the NBA. Mostly because the ball-handling skill is so much higher, almost everyone can bring the ball up against tight 1 on 1 defense. You could send two defenders to stop the ball, but a good outlet pass leads to a 4 on 3 situation in favor of the offense. I think athletic teams can press as a change of pace to try and force a couple quick turnovers, but once the other team realizes what you're doing you'll be giving up a lot of easy baskets. Plus its tiring as hell to play this way, hard to imagine any team being able to keep that up 48 minutes/game over a playoff series.
College basketball have had full pressing nonstop teams for decades. We all know it’s strength and weaknesses. An example was the mid 2010’s West Virginian teams. It’s not feasible in the NBA because guards are that skilled. Guards already know how to deal with full pressing
What kind of shitty comparison is that? You’re talking about a style of play changing throughout the decades, while the point is that such a gap in talent between 2 NBA teams is impossible as of yet The league going from non-shooting to shooting doesn’t change anything about parity
Just like it takes a special shooting team like the Warriors to make people believe winning through shooting is possible, and that changed the meta of the league, it may take a special, super athletic and 15 men deep team to make the league believe that style may be viable. Once people saw how the Warriors played, the change in style was relatively fast. The Warriors style of play would be considered the norm these days. And OKC almost beat the slightly more talented Warrior team through energy and length, so talent parity is not the main factor here. With the right team make up, and sufficient talent on top, I would like to see a team try this.
Shooting is a skill though, defense requires a aloooot of energy. We saw what happened to Ant when he tried to chase Kyrie around he was gassed on offense. This will never be a viable scheme because teams will run out of gas.
This might work a few times in the NBA, but generally these players are going to be too good at press breaking, leading to a bunch of layups.
Um, I think you are probably right. With that said, I would still like to see some deep, athletic, and long teams try it, not for the full game, but for short sprints of shock and awe, or even closing out the game. If you recall, even the Warriors had a traditional lineup, with traditional centers such as Bogut, etc. The Death Lineup was used at opportune times and produced tremendous results. Some teams can use the same time management, actually my team can try it. Say if we are playing some second unit, with a shakey backup PG, and we put out: Smart - Bane - Vince Williams Jr - Lamar Stevens - JJJ. Before the other team calls a timeout, we can overwhelm lots of teams defensively for a solid 3-4 minutes Say if Pera says fuck the aprons, I am gonna take 3 of them, and we managed to trade/sign some OG/Bridges level defender to replace Stevens, who is to say Ja - Bane - VWJ - OG - JJJ would not work as a closing unit as a defensive orientated juggernaut. It might even work out if GG focuses on D, our Prince is only 19 years old, builds like LeBron and shoots like TMac, what if he defends like Tony Allen? Fun to think about, no?
It is a fun thing to think about, but teams do already use the press in short/desperate situations. IIRC, the Toronto Raptors used it in their 30+ point comeback against the Mavericks a few years ago. I'm sure there are other examples of teams using a press in small spurts to surprise other teams. The issue, however, is that if you are consistently using the press, teams will plan for it. While this can work in college, NBA players are too good at controlling the ball. Like, Jokic is a press-break cheat code.
I think teams are sticking to the 9-10 men rotation like it is the ten commandments. With the deeper talent pool and better training method, would some GM try to team build a 15 men lineup with focus on defense, length, athleticism, short minutes, and all out effort? And I am not saying do it for the whole game, or always full court. Just make on-ball pressure a priority, and balls to the wall defensive efforts a requirement. It is like me with Muay Thai, opening round, I am sharp, I am moving around, I slip punches and check kicks, but by round 4, my old ass can't keep with the youngins, and will often get lit up. It was a very desperate feeling. Quickley is a good ball handler, but what if he battled Vince Williams Jr and that new Psycho White boy Cam Spencer all game, both giving foaming at the mouth efforts, then when it is 10 minutes left, and he looks up, it is Marcus Smart at the half court only played 16 minute prior and with 5 fouls to give. And if you build a team for that to be true for all 5 positions. Most teams are not ready to deal with that depth/effort deficiency, the same way most teams were not equipped to deal with the Warriors with shooting at all positions a decade back. To catch up with the team building, it will take a couple seasons or longer. It is almost prudent for us to try that at the G league level as a Proof of Concept.
Fun to think about but you also need to score/gets dead ball situation to set up the press in the first place, not a lot of scoring going on in that lineup.
> With that said, I would still like to see some deep, athletic, and long teams try it, not for the full game, but for short sprints of shock and awe, or even closing out the game. It’s like… every nba team uses this tactic against GSW…
Really good basketball players can handle the press with ease
I’ve never fully understood why more NBA teams don’t run a full court press. I don’t think you could run it all game, every game, but it can be just as useful, if not more useful, as a change of pace defense as a 2-3 zone I see quite a few teams running nowadays. I’ve always felt like the NBA does a better job than the NFL at integrating lower level schemes in to high level games, but this is definitely something they’re slacking on. It feels like almost every year a team makes a deep run in the NCAA tourney off the back of the full court press. That tells me that the foundation is there for it to work, but I’d imagine it has more to do with buy in from the pros, especially the all stars. A good FCP can be devastating, but one guy not being completely locked in means the other team has a free layup on the other end. That’d be tough for just about anyone in the NBA over the course of 82+ games.
Can't look for it right now, but there is a clip on youtube that I stumble across occasionally of Kyrie when he was 19 on the USA Select team scrimmaging against Team USA and Kobe and Durant try to trap him full court. Sure, it's just practice, but it's also Kobe and Durant and Kyrie is just a kid, but it illustrates extremely well why a full court press can't work against NBA point guards.
It worked a couple times in this playoffs if I’m not mistaken. Again, not a full time coverage for sure, but it can certainly swing momentum in couple minute spurts, especially if you’re a deep team that can put 5 absolute dogs on the court like the Knicks/Pacers/Celtics can.
That’s always how Team USA plays. Even at the senior level they love to press.
Yeah this team is stacked and destroying everyone like back in the 90s when the pros first came back. US talent drought is officially over.
To be fair since the establishment of U17 World Cup in FIBA, the US has won every single editions.
The US will likely always dominate age-related tourneys because of the smaller player pool.
[удалено]
U19 is a bit difference since as far as I can tell, the US often sends a group they isn't anything close to their "A" team. For example, in that game against Turkey, Tobe Awaka led the team in minutes with 30. The same Awaka that was coming off averaging 3 points and 4 rebounds in 10 minutes per game with Tennessee.
with stats like that, it sounds like he's on pace for a 4 year guaranteed deal from the lakers
He’s missing the most important stat, coming from the balls of Lebron.
US has never lost a game at the U17 or U16 level in any tournament I believe lol
Those kids dont play around. They are relentless. They are watching the draft rankings lol
Usa never had a talent drought . It’s just guys getting hurt. AD and Zion careers got heavily diminished by constant injuries . Ja too with injuries n controversy but he’s not an mvp talent to me like the other two . When you think about Zion injuries ( and even Davis) it’s quite easy to understand why it looks like America is weaker cos there mvp lvl Players got injured n limited . Then immediately after you had lamelo and Ant, lamelo hurt by injuries too he’s a legit offensive dynamo .
I mean, US is a huge country so obviously it will generate good players, but I still contend there's been a noticeable dropoff. Look at the team USA roster and the number of guys over 30. Also, the injury thing you could argue is the direct result of AAU and how many games it forces young guys to play.
The only reason team USA has a ton of guys over 30 is because the older guys are still really good and have seniority. Guys like Ja, Brunson, Banchero, Trae, Brown, etc could all play and be really good.
The question is why are the young guys not yet so much better than team 35 and up that it isn’t a question who will go.
Well the answer is we’re seeing unprecedented longevity from the older guys lmao. Like LeBron, Curry and KD are all still playing at ridiculously high levels and are arguably top 5-10 players. It’s more of a testament to the old generation than it is an indictment of the new gen.
Injuries have always and will always be a thing in sports. I don't think the USA has a talent drought but it's also 100% true that many other countries have had a significant rise in the talent they've been producing.
It's a lot better when the talent is more spread out nationality wise like it is right now.
>US talent drought is officially over. Looking at Dybantsa, Flagg, Boozer, Peat, Traore, Bailey coming into the NBA.....and obviously, we have Chet, Zion, and Banchero right now as proven players... In theory, this is like Lebron-Wade-CP3-Carmelo-Dwight reinforcing players like T-Mac, Kobe, Amare, etc. Might take them until 2028 to become some new Dream Team but the talent is there.
Isn’t Traore French?
You might actually be right, especially given his surname. I might be confusing him with the other guard who is going to Rutgers Either way, there's potential for good American talent coming in to replace the old era
Yeah Dylan Harper is also going to Rutgers. He looks like he could be special.
Dybantsa chucked a 3 and airballed by like 2 feet in the first 4 seconds of the game. That shit was funny
Conceivable that OKC might end up with a few of those dudes.
AJ, Peat, and Holt all strike me as Presti guys. Holt could be really good
Oh its u17… bro gave me a heart attack thinking it was the actual team
So I’m out of the loop but are they playing the other countries 17 year olds or are they playing grown men?
No, it’s a U17 tournament lol OP could have made that more clear, but yeah.
Lol thanks.
*Our kids were bodying Brooks and Dort*
I didn’t think they needed to. When they mentioned one team is U-17, I figured it was common sense to assume all teams are U-17 Edit: you know what? I think I’m in the minority with that assumption after reading other comments. I just thought it was common sense a bunch of 16-17 year olds weren’t dominating a team full of actual pros
I dunno about all that, I’m just happy to help people clear up the confusion.
And here my dumbass thought they were taking a shit on Shai, Brooks, and Dort.
I had the same question lol
Presti honing in on his targets
The death of USA basketball has been greatly exaggerated
There are still flaws in the US youth development system compared to Europe, but they are being addressed quickly. The idea of G League Ignite (even though it is abolished), the introduction of NIL, and even some college teams play matches against professional clubs around the world, all shows that the US basketball administrators is acting quickly to retain the superiority of US basketball.
Europe has had a strong generation and has taught us a lot about how to play the game but the US still has a massive talent pool. Not that I expect Europe to stop pumping out high end talent but I do think we'll see our bigs catch up on the skill front.
I mean, we do have Embiid. So, that kinda counts. lol
It's also kind of a foregone conclusion even if you imagine the culture/process to be equal as far as cultivating talent - Canada is not particularly populous, it'd be like 49 states going up against California in an all-star game. Yeah they have talent of course, but there's a 9 to 1 advantage in talent pool.
I wish it was easier to find places to watch this
The Fiba basketball YouTube channel is streaming it live
Thank you!
Good looks
it’s extremely easy. fiba streams every single game of every youth tournament on their youtube channel. there are tournaments all summer long.
Courtside 1891
Dybansta and Peat are probably the nicest on the team IMHO.
I thought I was in /r/hockey for a minute and then saw the score was 66-27 and was so incredibly confused.
Kendrick vs Drake the biopic
They not like us
Beat 'em and hide the Bible if God watchin'
Boozer and Dybantsa are too good man
Mathematically it makes sense. USA has 10 times the talent pool over Canada.
North American Diff.
Canada is a part of North America
just watch the first 6 minutes of this game that all u need to really see .
That’s not surprising
You forgot to mention Tyran Stokes
The 25 and 26 draft classes are really going to be it. The Nets have got to be feeling good lol.
https://i.imgur.com/durBqtQ.gif finally some revenge for the world cup
Is this a surprise?
look out world 2032 olympics
oh man, you had me thrown with the title. I thought it was Team Canada playing an exhibition game against the u17 US team lol probably should add the 'u17' qualifier to both for idiots like me
Is anyone surprised? They would beat the best pro women’s team even worse lol
Peat has a brother who's an NFL 3-time Pro-Bowler. If he makes the NBA, would that be the first NFL/NBA brother combo?
The Falcons' WR from a few years ago, Harry Douglas, was NBA player Toney Douglas' brother. I can't remember anyone else to be honest.
Hell yeah I'm rooting so hard for Dybansta. First person from my home town since fucking Marvin Hagler to get big. I hope he's the next big star in the NBA.
'25 and '26 draft classes are fucking loaded
> Really highlights how good this 26’ draft class could be. Or how bad it is given they were losing 66-27 at the half
I really believe if there’s a flaw in US basketball development, it’s in how different the collegiate game is from the NBA because our youth have put belt to ass for as long as I can remember
Them dog walking them Gilas young bloods remains fresh on my mind
Ugh I hate 48 minute full presses vs clearly inferior team. Just feels like unfair bullying
I mean, they not like us.
USA doesnt produce fundamentally sound players and international players are more skilled has gotta be the two dumbest argument in the world. These guys cant handle the ball for jack anything.
bryce is in the roster right? how was he on the court?