It's not too late. Get the refs together, talk it over, and say it was an inadvertent whistle. They've reversed themselves before on less ridiculous calls, and you have 100% certain proof that the call was wrong, as the clock is still stuck up there at 16.
to be fair like, most everyone knows that rule. anyone who's been in enough basketball to be involved in the NBA ought to know that rule.
Deeeefinitely referees ought to know that rule...
This is when NFL referess would turn on their mic and simply say, "There is no foul on the play." Like, I threw the flag, we chatted about it, turns out I was wrong. Geez.
A better question would be, does the ref in the trail position use the shot clock for 8 second violations?
Im sure they probably use it because its easier but I would think maybe they use a hand count because thats what they must use when the shot clock is turned off at the end of a quarter.
Maybe then he had a faulty hand count
no way a hand count for 8 seconds. If they did that we'd see this mistake all the time I think.
They should use the shot clock, but wait for 15 to read on the clock, not 16.
At the end of the quarter they often do use a hand count. Watch the trailing referee sometime and how they move their forearm. It’s the same way they do a 3 second violation. I’m sure most though give it a little more leeway to ensure they don’t call it too soon though.
>The rule in question, in case it’s not your job to watch every moment of every NBA playoff game, is at what point on the shot clock referees are supposed to blow the whistle when the offensive team fails to get the ball over halfcourt in eight seconds.
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>Subtraction dictates that this occurs when the shot clock reads :16. Simple. Twenty-four minus eight equals 16. Right? **Wrong**.
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>The countdown clock on the shot clock works the same way, only backwards. For the first 19 seconds of the possession, the shot clock posts only full seconds.
>When there are 16 seconds on the shot clock, there are actually 16 seconds plus a few tenths. **If the refs called an eight-second violation as soon as the clock hit :16, they would actually be whistling the play dead at :16.9 — robbing the offensive team of almost a full second.**
>In the final five seconds of the shot clock, tenths of a second get added. Again, think of the stopwatch. If the players, officials, coaches and fans could not read tenths of a second at the end of the clock, the shot clock would read :00 for a full second before the buzzer sounded. Instead, we see the timer count down in tenths of a second to ultimate zero, :00.00. Knowing how many tenths of a second are on the clock is vital, so a team knows whether it has enough time for a shot or just a tip-in attempt.
Read more at: https://nesn.com/2013/05/nbas-seemingly-contradictory-shot-clock-eight-second-violation-rule-really-not-that-complicated/
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*In case others want the official statement on this and not the blogger explaining it:
http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/8-second-violation/
Pop quiz, what do they highlight in the video? Time's up. That's right, the FIFTEEN seconds on the shot clock.
The game clock doesn’t stop after made shots until there’s less than 2 minutes in the quarter left. Additionally in this case, it reads 6:08 when there’s still 24 on the shot clock. Shit call by the ref
I did not know this either. You happen to have any links for this rule? Not challenging, just would love to read if you have. I'll google on my own though of course.
You can pull some cheeky stuff with it though, like roll the ball up and not pick it up and waste 15 20 seconds. It doesn't seem like much but with say three minutes and your down that's a whole possession pretty much. I've seen ty Lawson do it the most.
Right, since you have a full 8 seconds.
Starting from 24, 0-1 takes the clock down to 23,
1-2 takes it to 22,
2-3, 21,
3-4, 20,
4-5, 19,
5-6, 18,
6-7 to 17, and
7-8 to 16.
The 8th second (8-9) ends when the clock switches to 15.
Related example: if you're counting the time it takes to do something, what number do you start with? 1, right? But if you start at 1, 0 seconds have actually passed. 1 second passes when you say "2"
[Yes; at the end of yesterday's Rockets Timberwolves game, the ref waves at Gerald Green to tell him he needs to go over halfcourt] (https://youtu.be/Wx2XLWOr1pg?t=561)
That is a good question. I have always had this question in the back of my mind when it's the end of the game, and people sort of wander over to the other side, but there was only 19 seconds
You'd think this would actually come up more when there's like 19 seconds left and the team that's up has the ball so the other team tries to run backcourt trap on them.
I've seen a crunch time eight second violation with a trap before. Had to have been circa 2001 or so (iirc, it used to be ten seconds too). Definitely not common, but you see teams make bad passes and turn the ball over to avoid the eight second violation fairly frequently.
Yes because the eight second count is it’s own violation that is not really connected to the shot clock. The shot clock is just an easy way to keep track of the time if that makes sense.
I know that the rule isn't actually linked to the shotclock, but as far as I can tell that's the only way referees call it. Do you know of any examples of an eight second violation being called with the shotclock turned off?
When in backcourt you will see the ref counting by doing an arm swing. They also do this for five seconds, but I can't remember the last time I've seen that called. Pretty much if your covered and don't move the ball forward for five seconds it should be a turnover. I think it would really change holding for the last shot, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it in the nba
I edited, and added from the official site the violation video, but you're right, if NBA doesn't hire the german all their little videos are suspect :)
Good post.
To add: It used to be a violation at :16 when the shot clock reset to 24.**9** per [this link](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/997755-its-official-explaining-the-nbas-2011-12-season-points-of-emphasis).
I've said this many many times
NBA needs to make the entire half court line a line that LIGHTS UP when a SEPARATE timer that counts off 8 seconds from the time of possession change
Or, just have a big red light on each side of the court at half court that light up when 8 seconds have expired.
We wouldn't have idiot refs manually counting and fucking up like this in a fucking playoff game.
This is absolute garbage. Even if it landed exactly at 8 seconds, Rubio stepped over half court before 9 seconds. The look on the ref's face says it all, as if he had been at war wtf.
It was a mistake by the ref b/c the clock needs to hit 15 for it to be called. But if the rule were 16, that would have been the right call. You haven’t made it across the line until both feet and the ball cross. One foot is not enough.
Worst part is that an 8 second violation is impossible if the shot clock still reads 16.
The clock never hit 15.
It would be like calling a 3 seconds violation when the shot clock still reads 23, 22, or 21.
I assume this is one of the things that can't be overturned be review.
Like how when they call a foul on a 3-point attempt, and when they review to see if it was actually a 3. Half the time we all see it wasn't an actual foul, but they can't overturn a foul call so they have to just look at the feet/line and call that.
I was thinking that, too, but I thiiiiink you can only do that before you call something. So if he blew the whistle and *immediately* realized the fuck up, he can call inadvertent whistle. But in this case he already called the 8 seconds.
I think out of bounds calls are the only ones I’ve seen refs do the “my bad” gesture and overturn it.
The okc anouncers ARE THE FUCKING WORST. Just call out a bad call even if it's against your team. I also just hate the way these two voices sound as well, but maybe I'm also just out of my cotton-picking mind. Yeah, fuck these guys and fuck that ref.
This was just an offensively terrible call. Rubio was well and truly in the clear and unpressured, this ref was looking for an excuse to call something. Terrible job.
I just don't understand why a ref would be looking for this so much in a playoff game. Also the clock had just barely hit 16 if it did at all. The fact that some asshole ref was looking to make this call in this situation is weird to me. Like why are you fixated on one of the least important calls in the game and getting it wrong in the playoffs ?
Yeah that's what I'm saying. I've seen a lot more times when it is hovering on 16 to 15 and it isn't called if they are stepping over the line. It's such a minor rule and they give a lot of leeway like with a 5 second count. But this one was like basically at the stroke of 16 so it was a full second early. Like the ref had to be trying to make this call happen for some reason and then wouldn't even consider that he just royally fucked up the call. This is the kind of stuff that just makes it really hard to sympathize with players berating officials for me. It has to be infuriating to know that the refs are wrong so often and just accept their bullshit reasoning.
I hate shit like this. 2 years ago in our ECF against Cle when it was tied 2-2. Biyombo was bringing the ball upcourt on an inbound in when the raps were making a push and took one step before dribbling and was called with a travel.
It's like okay, he travelled, but this happens literally 50 times a game.
These are the little things that can cost a team the game. In the playoffs 1 possession can change everything. This is where mistakes can not be made, it's as basic as it can get.
I didn't watch the game so I didn't see all of that. But to hear it pisses me off. I would be for any team that happened to honestly. Just brings back all the bad memories of the cheating refs back in earlier playoff days.
Daryl Morey calls these "points of high leverage" and its a real stat the rockets (and most likely boston) track because momentum has significant impact on the game.
Exactly. He has that type of intangible thing that can disrupt a player or even team's momentum and cause them to underperform suddenly. Pisses me off when I see fans saying " he can't shoot get rid of the bum " as if he doesn't bring anything else to the table.
Man, they weren't able to say that those 10 or 12 games after the hand injury before the tendon injury, though!! He was on another level, and I hope he comes back just like that.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are plays that change the momentum of the game, regardless of when in the game, outside of the first few minutes. You can just sense it, sometimes, even as a mere spectator. Obviously, the earlier in the game they happen, the better the chance for a team to recover...basketball is a game of runs, after all. Players aren't robots, they react mentally, emotionally. A bad call, a sloppy pass, a made basket by the opposition, can sometimes mean much more than just a couple free throws, a turnover, or three more points.
In game 2 between POR and NOP, the Blazers finally got over the hump and took a one point lead late in the 4th. Next time down, Mirotic hit a contested, high arching, three, late in the shot clock, and you could just feel the air being taken out of the arena...gasps and groans. I considered this one of those "points of high leverage" moments. There was still two minutes or so to go, but at that point, it felt like the Blazers had tumbled halfway back down that hill they tried all game to scale. These sorts of instances both negatively impact one team, and positively impact the other.
If you shout at the tv for your team's coach to call a timeout after the opponent runs off 10 straight points, then it shouldn't be hard to wrap your head around points of high leverage.
> Those free throws were each worth a point, and so were the free throws before and/or after...so it's all the same.
What if a bad call put someone in foul trouble, ended a terrific attempt at a defensive stand, stopped the game for 10-15 seconds so one team could regroup from their opponent having gone on a major run to get themselves back in the game, the player who made the free throws hadn't made a shot and seeing the ball go through the net got him going., etc.
There was a moment in game 2 of Phi-Mia where Spo showed his own knowledge of this too.
Philadelphia hadn't scored for like 3 minutes and then someone scored a 3 and the whole arena erupted. Spo immediately calls timeout to stop the momentum they would've gained from that.
FTR the Thunder were already on a 5-0 run I believe.
Then that call happened and the offense just kind of fell apart.
Not giving a team the, legal, chance to respond to a small run totally disrupted the flow of the game.
Yea can't find anything tying this exact comment to Morey but found some interesting stuff online.
This was probably the best article with some studies regardingMomentum/TOs: https://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/1/31/742421/basketball-strategy-a-disc
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2006/05/a_timeout_to_kill.html
Typically, they found that teams, on average, go on a 5-0 run during a momentum swing, and that is typically when a time out is called.
The timing of the calling the time out is key. If a momentum swing is recognized, a time out may be able to kill any potential damage. But if it isn’t really a momentum shift, you may have just wasted a time out.
Edit: Found a Thesis on it https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/bitstream/handle/10066/6918/2011PermuttS_thesis.pdf?sequence=2
FML I'm supposed to be studying instead I'm reading someone else thesis!
Rubio was a doofus right after, spent the next few possessions totally out of the game arguing with the refs and playing needlessly tight defence (outside of the scheme so could get caught on picks and wasn't controlling a zone just the man he was on). Snyder ended up needing to bench him.
It might not have been the sole reason for giving up a 19-0 run, but it was definitely the catalyst.
I'm blaming it on Harpring (Jazz TV broadcaster). He said "the Thunder are on a 13-0 run, the last thing you want is for them to go 19-0..." weird number for him to pull out of the air.
Just so I can stop any new people who don't understand the rules from making the same post another dozen times:
The game clock does not stop after a basket unless it's in the final 2 minutes of the game/OT. A dead ball is when a timeout is called, out of bounds is called, a foul is called, or free throws are being taken. Making a shot doesn't count as a dead ball, and the game clock doesn't start when the inboundee touches the ball. A The shot clock does, and that's why you use the shot clock to count an 8 second violation. Counting the game clock down is not accurate.
I hate Cage as the color commentator. He blatantly dismisses what replays shows and continues his initial call. There are a few and far in between examples where he changes his initial impression/comments/call and plenty of times when I was watching the OKC feed where he's just ignoring what replays are showing and continuing his outrage. If he stayed quiet or homerish lame comment, but he maintains his indignant tone about some of them where I got irrationally angry at him.
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Back to the play, 24 - 8 = 16. Is it an 8 second violation and therefore you have SEVEN seconds to get across?
After 7 seconds, the clock shows 16. When it hits 15 thats when the full 8 seconds has passed. So if the clock shows 16 it can technically be anything from 7.1 to 7.9 seconds in to the clock. Or am i thinking wrong?
You are correct. 23 is anything between 23.00 and 23.9999... 16 is anything between 16.0 and 16.9999... so the full 8 seconds expire when the clock goes into the 15s...
So that means that the clock pretty much only shows 24 when it is stopped, as it instantly goes to 23 when its started? I never noticed that, pretty interesting.
Right, I think otherwise it would be impossible to tell if you're starting the clock on time - you'd need that number change to be near simultaneous with the start of the clock.
You are correct. Only when the shot clock hits 15 should an 8 second be called. People cross half court on 16 all the time, this is not called.
Shit ref, shit call.
That's what I was thinking and makes sense to me about all the other time violations.
24 shot clock violation, means full 24 seconds have transpired. So the "whistle" if there was one (given we have the buzzer now) would happen on the 25th second, when the full 24th second has occurred.
Thunder announcers are fucking trash, and the guy's stutter is unbearable to hear. Choose a different profession than commentating you stuttering mess.
Our commentators are garbage. Except Matt Pinto, who only fills in when our regulars are given a night off.
I'm pretty sure Pinto would be the regular commentator, except he's eager to call out the team when they're playing shitty, and the broadcast wants nothing but forced positivity for casual fans. He does the radio, though, so we can just mute the TV and turn that on.
I once had a super crash course on refereeing but i remember we had to sort of show that we were counting down the time to the player by stretching our arms out palm towards the floor and bend sway it back and forth in a rhythmic fashion.
in any case, bullshit call.
Nah. If you were going to rig the game there are dozens of calls you can make that are judgment calls. Given all the tools a ref has, it would be incredibly stupid to try to influence a game with a call that's objectively wrong.
They pretty routinely start the clock before the inbound pass is touched too (hard to see off camera here but looks suspect). Calls like this are why we need performance based pay for refs, which if enforced properly would also stave off some concerns of point shaving.
Not even taking into account the clock shows he still had time, there is no way you can be watching when the guy bringing the ball up crosses half court and the clock closely enough to make that call.
I'm sure I saw years ago a similar thing where the call was overturned because one of the other officials corrected the original call because the shot clock was still on like 16.3 or something. Can't remember what game though.
Rubio is smarter than the ref. He yells “did it say :15?” Ref knew he f’d up.
[when u know u fucked up but it's too late](https://i.imgur.com/nxvaAf8.jpg)
ive seen that face in my nightmares
why doesnt he have teeth (assuming your nightmares have strong character development)
It's not too late. Get the refs together, talk it over, and say it was an inadvertent whistle. They've reversed themselves before on less ridiculous calls, and you have 100% certain proof that the call was wrong, as the clock is still stuck up there at 16.
to be fair like, most everyone knows that rule. anyone who's been in enough basketball to be involved in the NBA ought to know that rule. Deeeefinitely referees ought to know that rule...
The refs face in the videos says it all, looks like my dog when he's been in the trash.
“what do you want me to say uhh, sorry? it’s not like it’s the playoffs relax”
This is when NFL referess would turn on their mic and simply say, "There is no foul on the play." Like, I threw the flag, we chatted about it, turns out I was wrong. Geez.
Sometimes NBA refs will say it was an inadvertent whistle and just reset the play.
I didn't watch this game, did they really go through with the turn over?
I mean, the end of the video clearly shows OKC inbounding the ball.
I couldn't tell, that's why I asked.
If you look really closely you can see all 10 players on the other side of the court after the whistle
He definitely didn’t expect Rubio to have known exactly how much time had ticked away.
thought he was about to call a T tbh
Yeah, it gave me the impression that if Ricky said another word he would get a technical foul called on him.
Yeah, I think he looks like he knows he fucked that up.
A better question would be, does the ref in the trail position use the shot clock for 8 second violations? Im sure they probably use it because its easier but I would think maybe they use a hand count because thats what they must use when the shot clock is turned off at the end of a quarter. Maybe then he had a faulty hand count
no way a hand count for 8 seconds. If they did that we'd see this mistake all the time I think. They should use the shot clock, but wait for 15 to read on the clock, not 16.
At the end of the quarter they often do use a hand count. Watch the trailing referee sometime and how they move their forearm. It’s the same way they do a 3 second violation. I’m sure most though give it a little more leeway to ensure they don’t call it too soon though.
I've seen hand counts for three and five second violations. I guess logic would dictate they'd do it for eight, but I've never seen it.
I mean at that point the logic doesn't stop them from hand counting the shot clock.
I mean, he probably does. Everyone makes mistakes.
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>The rule in question, in case it’s not your job to watch every moment of every NBA playoff game, is at what point on the shot clock referees are supposed to blow the whistle when the offensive team fails to get the ball over halfcourt in eight seconds. - >Subtraction dictates that this occurs when the shot clock reads :16. Simple. Twenty-four minus eight equals 16. Right? **Wrong**. - >The countdown clock on the shot clock works the same way, only backwards. For the first 19 seconds of the possession, the shot clock posts only full seconds. >When there are 16 seconds on the shot clock, there are actually 16 seconds plus a few tenths. **If the refs called an eight-second violation as soon as the clock hit :16, they would actually be whistling the play dead at :16.9 — robbing the offensive team of almost a full second.** >In the final five seconds of the shot clock, tenths of a second get added. Again, think of the stopwatch. If the players, officials, coaches and fans could not read tenths of a second at the end of the clock, the shot clock would read :00 for a full second before the buzzer sounded. Instead, we see the timer count down in tenths of a second to ultimate zero, :00.00. Knowing how many tenths of a second are on the clock is vital, so a team knows whether it has enough time for a shot or just a tip-in attempt. Read more at: https://nesn.com/2013/05/nbas-seemingly-contradictory-shot-clock-eight-second-violation-rule-really-not-that-complicated/ - *In case others want the official statement on this and not the blogger explaining it: http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/8-second-violation/ Pop quiz, what do they highlight in the video? Time's up. That's right, the FIFTEEN seconds on the shot clock.
You can see Rubio asking "did it say 15?" He clearly understands the rules better than the ref does.
I love the Ref's face right after Ricky asks that, it's like he either can't process what Ricky is saying or realizes how he fucked up
It's alright, the refs fouled out Steven Adams to make up for it. I'm happy with the results.
Because Steven Adams fouled Gobert when he was going up, it wasn't a make up call
It was pretty clearly a foul. It made me cry bitter tears, but it was a foul.
THANK YOU!
[Yeah, so basically...](https://imgur.com/lP9Phrz)
LMAO
He must feel so embarrassed, damn thats a silly mistake.
But the game clock went from 6:10 to 6:00 before he crossed?
The game clock doesn’t stop after made shots until there’s less than 2 minutes in the quarter left. Additionally in this case, it reads 6:08 when there’s still 24 on the shot clock. Shit call by the ref
Never knew that was a thing!! Guess I only ever pay attention to clock in crunch time
Actually I messed it up a bit, it stops after 2 minutes in the 4th and OT, but in the other quarters it only stops in the last minute.
I did not know this either. You happen to have any links for this rule? Not challenging, just would love to read if you have. I'll google on my own though of course.
[Section V](http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_5.html) my man
NOICE! Thanks
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You can pull some cheeky stuff with it though, like roll the ball up and not pick it up and waste 15 20 seconds. It doesn't seem like much but with say three minutes and your down that's a whole possession pretty much. I've seen ty Lawson do it the most.
I only learned this after playing 2k.
This is such an interesting thread. Thanks for pointing that out.
So essentially refs should blow the whistle when the shot clock reads 15 secs remaining right?
Yup 15 is the only way to guarantee the full 8 seconds, otherwise we'd need the tenth decimal to start at 17 seconds. 24.00 - 7.99 = 16.01
But where is the chasm between 15.9 and 16, it should be 15.9 but then you get a free .1 and that's against the law
Ooh... what if ref blew the whistle at 16.00?!
He didn't
Right, since you have a full 8 seconds. Starting from 24, 0-1 takes the clock down to 23, 1-2 takes it to 22, 2-3, 21, 3-4, 20, 4-5, 19, 5-6, 18, 6-7 to 17, and 7-8 to 16. The 8th second (8-9) ends when the clock switches to 15.
Related example: if you're counting the time it takes to do something, what number do you start with? 1, right? But if you start at 1, 0 seconds have actually passed. 1 second passes when you say "2"
Is it possible to get an 8 second violation when the shot clock is turned off because there are fewer than 24 seconds left in the quarter?
[Yes; at the end of yesterday's Rockets Timberwolves game, the ref waves at Gerald Green to tell him he needs to go over halfcourt] (https://youtu.be/Wx2XLWOr1pg?t=561)
Whoa, nice catch.
Yeah he was like come on this game is over if you just get across half court, don't make me call this bs.
But then they don't call travels and people coming into the court in the final seconds.so why this?
I noticed this too, don’t think I had ever seen that before!
That is a good question. I have always had this question in the back of my mind when it's the end of the game, and people sort of wander over to the other side, but there was only 19 seconds
You'd think this would actually come up more when there's like 19 seconds left and the team that's up has the ball so the other team tries to run backcourt trap on them.
I've seen a crunch time eight second violation with a trap before. Had to have been circa 2001 or so (iirc, it used to be ten seconds too). Definitely not common, but you see teams make bad passes and turn the ball over to avoid the eight second violation fairly frequently.
Yes because the eight second count is it’s own violation that is not really connected to the shot clock. The shot clock is just an easy way to keep track of the time if that makes sense.
I know that the rule isn't actually linked to the shotclock, but as far as I can tell that's the only way referees call it. Do you know of any examples of an eight second violation being called with the shotclock turned off?
When in backcourt you will see the ref counting by doing an arm swing. They also do this for five seconds, but I can't remember the last time I've seen that called. Pretty much if your covered and don't move the ball forward for five seconds it should be a turnover. I think it would really change holding for the last shot, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it in the nba
Good stuff bro, (as always).
If this source isn't from a 10-year veteran German referee, then why the fuck are we listening to it?
I edited, and added from the official site the violation video, but you're right, if NBA doesn't hire the german all their little videos are suspect :)
Good post. To add: It used to be a violation at :16 when the shot clock reset to 24.**9** per [this link](http://bleacherreport.com/articles/997755-its-official-explaining-the-nbas-2011-12-season-points-of-emphasis).
I've said this many many times NBA needs to make the entire half court line a line that LIGHTS UP when a SEPARATE timer that counts off 8 seconds from the time of possession change Or, just have a big red light on each side of the court at half court that light up when 8 seconds have expired. We wouldn't have idiot refs manually counting and fucking up like this in a fucking playoff game.
This is absolute garbage. Even if it landed exactly at 8 seconds, Rubio stepped over half court before 9 seconds. The look on the ref's face says it all, as if he had been at war wtf.
He literally stepped over half court before the ref blew the whistle.
Yup. he was 2 seconds early.
It was a mistake by the ref b/c the clock needs to hit 15 for it to be called. But if the rule were 16, that would have been the right call. You haven’t made it across the line until both feet and the ball cross. One foot is not enough.
But odd how only 1 foot for a backcourt
No it makes perfect sense, both feet and the ball need to be across half otherwise you're considered in the back court
Worst part is that an 8 second violation is impossible if the shot clock still reads 16. The clock never hit 15. It would be like calling a 3 seconds violation when the shot clock still reads 23, 22, or 21.
Why didnt the other refs come and correct him. No way none of them knew that it was the 15 mark.
Yeah not a single one of them looked up at the shotclock after the whistle which still very clearly said "16" and overturned it? Ridiculous.
I assume this is one of the things that can't be overturned be review. Like how when they call a foul on a 3-point attempt, and when they review to see if it was actually a 3. Half the time we all see it wasn't an actual foul, but they can't overturn a foul call so they have to just look at the feet/line and call that.
They could call it an inadvertent whistle or something.
I was thinking that, too, but I thiiiiink you can only do that before you call something. So if he blew the whistle and *immediately* realized the fuck up, he can call inadvertent whistle. But in this case he already called the 8 seconds. I think out of bounds calls are the only ones I’ve seen refs do the “my bad” gesture and overturn it.
This would be too easy to abuse I think. We'd be hearing unsure whistles constantly and then correct it if they feel like it.
Refs have been hardly correcting each other at all this year. Its bullshit.
That’s one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen like the 16 was still on the shot clock after any red could have corrected him.
The okc anouncers ARE THE FUCKING WORST. Just call out a bad call even if it's against your team. I also just hate the way these two voices sound as well, but maybe I'm also just out of my cotton-picking mind. Yeah, fuck these guys and fuck that ref.
michael cage is the worst. like i always watch opposing team's announcers cos its fun, michael cage is literally the WORST
They're def homers.
I was very confused when this happened
so were the refs apparently
This was just an offensively terrible call. Rubio was well and truly in the clear and unpressured, this ref was looking for an excuse to call something. Terrible job.
I just don't understand why a ref would be looking for this so much in a playoff game. Also the clock had just barely hit 16 if it did at all. The fact that some asshole ref was looking to make this call in this situation is weird to me. Like why are you fixated on one of the least important calls in the game and getting it wrong in the playoffs ?
The clock actually needs to hit 15(!!!) for it to be a correct call...
Yeah that's what I'm saying. I've seen a lot more times when it is hovering on 16 to 15 and it isn't called if they are stepping over the line. It's such a minor rule and they give a lot of leeway like with a 5 second count. But this one was like basically at the stroke of 16 so it was a full second early. Like the ref had to be trying to make this call happen for some reason and then wouldn't even consider that he just royally fucked up the call. This is the kind of stuff that just makes it really hard to sympathize with players berating officials for me. It has to be infuriating to know that the refs are wrong so often and just accept their bullshit reasoning.
> I just don't understand why a ref would be looking for this so much in a playoff game. Point shaving
I hate shit like this. 2 years ago in our ECF against Cle when it was tied 2-2. Biyombo was bringing the ball upcourt on an inbound in when the raps were making a push and took one step before dribbling and was called with a travel. It's like okay, he travelled, but this happens literally 50 times a game.
The more and more I watch Jazz games, the more I see people mess with Ricky. I don't understand it because he's such a awesome dude.
Home team was losing
Russ and Okc need to get further in the playoffs. That or he hates Utah.
I could see how they could make this call if there was a full-court press, but Rubio was just bringing the ball up without any pressure! So weird.
These are the little things that can cost a team the game. In the playoffs 1 possession can change everything. This is where mistakes can not be made, it's as basic as it can get.
Rubio was incensed for the following 3-4 possessions. This is the possession where Thunder's 19-0 run started.
I didn't watch the game so I didn't see all of that. But to hear it pisses me off. I would be for any team that happened to honestly. Just brings back all the bad memories of the cheating refs back in earlier playoff days.
That Lakers vs. Kings series still pisses me off to this day. Sac was absolutely robbed by those cunt refs
Gary Zielinski bad calls/non-calls are an immediate upvote for me
oh man the cut from when rubio is asking "did it say 15?" to the ref's dope-y face... i believe this is where we go "fuck the refs"?
Yeah that’s not suspect.
No big deal. It only caused a huge momentum shift that ignited a 19-0 Thunder run. Why do the refs need to know the rules anyways?
Thank goodness they were able to fight back after this.
Are you seriously blaming a 19-0 run on one bad call? Lmao
Daryl Morey calls these "points of high leverage" and its a real stat the rockets (and most likely boston) track because momentum has significant impact on the game.
aka why someone might pay Marcus Smart.
Exactly. He has that type of intangible thing that can disrupt a player or even team's momentum and cause them to underperform suddenly. Pisses me off when I see fans saying " he can't shoot get rid of the bum " as if he doesn't bring anything else to the table.
Man, they weren't able to say that those 10 or 12 games after the hand injury before the tendon injury, though!! He was on another level, and I hope he comes back just like that.
Same man, same. We could really use what he brings to the table for these playoffs
Shhhh, let them keep thinking that so we get to hold on to my beautiful Marcus. Bought his jersey his rookie year. Have not been dissapointed.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are plays that change the momentum of the game, regardless of when in the game, outside of the first few minutes. You can just sense it, sometimes, even as a mere spectator. Obviously, the earlier in the game they happen, the better the chance for a team to recover...basketball is a game of runs, after all. Players aren't robots, they react mentally, emotionally. A bad call, a sloppy pass, a made basket by the opposition, can sometimes mean much more than just a couple free throws, a turnover, or three more points. In game 2 between POR and NOP, the Blazers finally got over the hump and took a one point lead late in the 4th. Next time down, Mirotic hit a contested, high arching, three, late in the shot clock, and you could just feel the air being taken out of the arena...gasps and groans. I considered this one of those "points of high leverage" moments. There was still two minutes or so to go, but at that point, it felt like the Blazers had tumbled halfway back down that hill they tried all game to scale. These sorts of instances both negatively impact one team, and positively impact the other. If you shout at the tv for your team's coach to call a timeout after the opponent runs off 10 straight points, then it shouldn't be hard to wrap your head around points of high leverage. > Those free throws were each worth a point, and so were the free throws before and/or after...so it's all the same. What if a bad call put someone in foul trouble, ended a terrific attempt at a defensive stand, stopped the game for 10-15 seconds so one team could regroup from their opponent having gone on a major run to get themselves back in the game, the player who made the free throws hadn't made a shot and seeing the ball go through the net got him going., etc.
There was a moment in game 2 of Phi-Mia where Spo showed his own knowledge of this too. Philadelphia hadn't scored for like 3 minutes and then someone scored a 3 and the whole arena erupted. Spo immediately calls timeout to stop the momentum they would've gained from that.
just wanted to say this was a great comment my guy
damn, this was a nice write up. you explained what i was thinking XD
FTR the Thunder were already on a 5-0 run I believe. Then that call happened and the offense just kind of fell apart. Not giving a team the, legal, chance to respond to a small run totally disrupted the flow of the game.
> Daryl Morey calls these "points of high leverage" I'm having trouble finding this on Google.
Yea can't find anything tying this exact comment to Morey but found some interesting stuff online. This was probably the best article with some studies regardingMomentum/TOs: https://www.tomahawknation.com/2009/1/31/742421/basketball-strategy-a-disc http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2006/05/a_timeout_to_kill.html Typically, they found that teams, on average, go on a 5-0 run during a momentum swing, and that is typically when a time out is called. The timing of the calling the time out is key. If a momentum swing is recognized, a time out may be able to kill any potential damage. But if it isn’t really a momentum shift, you may have just wasted a time out. Edit: Found a Thesis on it https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/bitstream/handle/10066/6918/2011PermuttS_thesis.pdf?sequence=2 FML I'm supposed to be studying instead I'm reading someone else thesis!
Yes he is, because it is a real statistical phenomenon. It's a psychology thing.
It did contribute but caused is probably going too far haha.
No, but you cannot deny that it was a huge turning point in the game.
Rubio was a doofus right after, spent the next few possessions totally out of the game arguing with the refs and playing needlessly tight defence (outside of the scheme so could get caught on picks and wasn't controlling a zone just the man he was on). Snyder ended up needing to bench him. It might not have been the sole reason for giving up a 19-0 run, but it was definitely the catalyst.
I'm blaming it on Harpring (Jazz TV broadcaster). He said "the Thunder are on a 13-0 run, the last thing you want is for them to go 19-0..." weird number for him to pull out of the air.
did you see that ludicrous display last night?
I’m mad I can’t remember the next line in this gag
What was Synder thinking, sending Crowder in that early?
That's Utah's problem, they always try to walk it across halfcourt.
Lol, too perfect
Just so I can stop any new people who don't understand the rules from making the same post another dozen times: The game clock does not stop after a basket unless it's in the final 2 minutes of the game/OT. A dead ball is when a timeout is called, out of bounds is called, a foul is called, or free throws are being taken. Making a shot doesn't count as a dead ball, and the game clock doesn't start when the inboundee touches the ball. A The shot clock does, and that's why you use the shot clock to count an 8 second violation. Counting the game clock down is not accurate.
Snyder looking like he's about to murder someone. Come to think about it, he's looking like he usually does
https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/17/6994557/terrifying-quin-snyder-meme-nba-jazz-coach
I hate Cage as the color commentator. He blatantly dismisses what replays shows and continues his initial call. There are a few and far in between examples where he changes his initial impression/comments/call and plenty of times when I was watching the OKC feed where he's just ignoring what replays are showing and continuing his outrage. If he stayed quiet or homerish lame comment, but he maintains his indignant tone about some of them where I got irrationally angry at him. - Back to the play, 24 - 8 = 16. Is it an 8 second violation and therefore you have SEVEN seconds to get across?
After 7 seconds, the clock shows 16. When it hits 15 thats when the full 8 seconds has passed. So if the clock shows 16 it can technically be anything from 7.1 to 7.9 seconds in to the clock. Or am i thinking wrong?
You are correct. 23 is anything between 23.00 and 23.9999... 16 is anything between 16.0 and 16.9999... so the full 8 seconds expire when the clock goes into the 15s...
So that means that the clock pretty much only shows 24 when it is stopped, as it instantly goes to 23 when its started? I never noticed that, pretty interesting.
Right, I think otherwise it would be impossible to tell if you're starting the clock on time - you'd need that number change to be near simultaneous with the start of the clock.
You are correct. Only when the shot clock hits 15 should an 8 second be called. People cross half court on 16 all the time, this is not called. Shit ref, shit call.
That's what I was thinking and makes sense to me about all the other time violations. 24 shot clock violation, means full 24 seconds have transpired. So the "whistle" if there was one (given we have the buzzer now) would happen on the 25th second, when the full 24th second has occurred.
Exactly, so this call was a fraud
you are right. If not the 0 could be 0.9 and it's not how it works with the clock/alarm thing.
Thunder announcers are fucking trash, and the guy's stutter is unbearable to hear. Choose a different profession than commentating you stuttering mess.
Our commentators are garbage. Except Matt Pinto, who only fills in when our regulars are given a night off. I'm pretty sure Pinto would be the regular commentator, except he's eager to call out the team when they're playing shitty, and the broadcast wants nothing but forced positivity for casual fans. He does the radio, though, so we can just mute the TV and turn that on.
Those two announcers are equally as pathetic as that ref. Basic fundamental basketball.
to be fair 16 in spanish is 14, can see how the ref got confused
Wait, I thought in Spanish 14 came after 3, so if he were counting off seconds, he'd call a violation with 20 on the shot clock?
16 = dieciseis 14 = catorce I don't get it, am I missing something?
It's the legal age for sex
[I still feel like I'm missing something](https://i.imgur.com/7TtmYCh.png)
I mean most people on r/NBA wouldn't know that
Refs were bought and paid for
And people think refs try their best to be unbiased. LUL
The playclock stops dead at sixteen when he blew the whistle. I mean - it says sixteen. The ref’s mistake is frozen in time, and glaring back at him.
Needless to say this clown won't be officiating the next rounds. Does the NBA send refs up and down the G-league? It would be a great implementation.
He even looks like Joey Crawford
I once had a super crash course on refereeing but i remember we had to sort of show that we were counting down the time to the player by stretching our arms out palm towards the floor and bend sway it back and forth in a rhythmic fashion. in any case, bullshit call.
They do that on inbounds, but with the shot clock it isn't necessary for 8 second calls.
honestly haven't watched too many jazz games this year....when did Rubio become Seth Rollins?
How are nba refs so shitty, like they can't be that unintentionally dumb
I honest to god think this is the first 8 second violation Rubio's been called for in his career. Dude doesn't make that kind of mistake.
[He made it though](https://imgur.com/YjZWwyP)
Is the ref already backing up? Would be interesting to see the body language in these 2 seconds
It was a bad call. Mental mistake by ref.
The two hardest problems in computer science are cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
Haha... I like your comment Mr. foleyatverkTestDeleteMe2
I think OKC went on a 19-0 run after this too. Pretty terrible call.
This game was full of them on both sides. Ridiculous shit. Let them play.
Worst call of the playoffs so far, and there have been a lot of shit calls
Disgraceful. League is so obviously rigged to get closer games for higher ratings...
Nah. If you were going to rig the game there are dozens of calls you can make that are judgment calls. Given all the tools a ref has, it would be incredibly stupid to try to influence a game with a call that's objectively wrong.
They out to get my beautiful Spanish boy but it's all good 5/8 from threes we Klay now
so stupid that once you make a call you can't go back on it even if everyone knows its plain wrong
That's the glare of a very, very dense man.
I love when the refs have absolutely no feel for the game.
How is something like this not overturned after a very brief discussion.
They went on a 19-0 run after this. I was pissed.
They pretty routinely start the clock before the inbound pass is touched too (hard to see off camera here but looks suspect). Calls like this are why we need performance based pay for refs, which if enforced properly would also stave off some concerns of point shaving.
Not even taking into account the clock shows he still had time, there is no way you can be watching when the guy bringing the ball up crosses half court and the clock closely enough to make that call.
The worst part is he looks to have gotten over with still 17 seconds on the shot clock.
Rubio "WHAT? Look *points at shot clock* does it say 15? No? is it 15?" Official *looks at shot clock before reset* ".....Oh Shit"
We won't be seeing him in round 2
I'm sure I saw years ago a similar thing where the call was overturned because one of the other officials corrected the original call because the shot clock was still on like 16.3 or something. Can't remember what game though.
What's the applauding for?
Was there a makeup call for this?
Blazer fan here, I would take more eager calls like that in these playoffs.
Whoa. They might start calling travel next.
THAT’S A VIOLATION!