(A) No.
(B) Who gives a fuck about "energizing democrats"? We're all gonna vote blue no matter what. The issue is capturing that sliver of undecided/independent voter we need to push it over the top. And "female empowerment, rah" isn't gonna appeal to those folks.
B) uhhhh, anyone who wants a democratic presidency? Have we just collectively decided to forget that the base being energetic and motivated is incredibly important for elections?
Do people think this sub is the base lol? Half the left has been calling him “genocide joe” for months. I know it’s a cliche to talk about this sub being out of touch but Jesus Christ, this is what people think a base at maximum motivation is?
Whaaaaa? You mean the people that constantly attack Dems from the left (with insane takes like “Genocide Joe” before the election (bur for some reason ignore that the Republican candidate would do), then vote 3rd party to teach Dems “a lesson” (if they bother to vote at all) aren’t the Democratic base? Color me shocked!
I doubt that women would be unelectable simply due to being women, but I also doubt that simply being women also wouldn't be energizing enough for people at this point, even with the issue of abortion rights.
Accept that the electorate is bigoted and nominate some cishet white Christian men from the heartland like Andy Beshear or Roy Cooper. Maybe Josh Shapiro but he's Jewish.
I say that as a trans woman. We don't have the luxury of ignoring that the electorate sucks. The stakes are too high. We absolutely have to win 2024.
Swing voters are freaked out by what they see as Dems being too far left. Best way to assuage that is with some white bread candidates. Policy is less important than optics.
>Accept that the electorate is bigoted and nominate some cishet white Christian men from the heartland like Andy Beshear or Roy Cooper
It's 2024 not 2008. Wouldn't most people who would have defected to Republicans due to bigotry have long done so by now? Of course, I do think that having a "cishet white Christian man" either as president or VP candidate wouldn't be a bad idea either, if they are simply a good candidate.
They have zero name recognition with the average voter and there is zero appeal. I don’t understand why people drop these seemingly random names as if they are gonna come save the day.
I meant that the electorate is bigoted overall, not that every individual is bigoted (although that could probably be argued). And yes, a lot of the bigotry is coming from cishet white Christians. They're the core supporters of the Republican Party which is a threat to democracy. We need to design the ticket to allay their delusional fears so that bigoted swing voters in that group can have someone to vote for besides Trump.
The people you worry about are probably already strongly Republican. Such people wouldn't defect to Democrats anyways even if you ran a candidate so white, male, and Christian that he makes Trump look like an atheist woman of color. So if Biden is really not a good candidate, then the best thing would be to find whoever is actually electable, without worrying too much about their identities.
Honestly, I think people are just panicking too much.
I’ll be honest, my general vibe is pure doom. Only reasonable course of action to me seems to be getting Joe in front of cameras a whole lot, hope he’s able to keep up energy and hope that the entropy of the news cycle throws us a bone or two.
But one thing I know for sure is that voters hate women. Who is a two woman ticket going to flip?
Democrats don't need to energize Democrats they need to win over independents and Trump-doubting Republicans.
Of course both Gretchen and Kamala are far better choices than Trump, but that doesn't matter if the majority in PA, GA, AZ, WI do not make that choice. And they won't make that choice for either of these two women.
The person that can beat Trump is a white male with a military and/or business background. The DEI agenda needs to wait four more years. Otherwise it will be set back a decade or more if Trump wins.
>Democrats don't need to energize Democrats they need to win over independents and Trump-doubting Republicans.
And how are they going to do that when they don't even try to appeal to them.
If they want to appeal to moderates they need to stop treating them the same as they treat extremists.
Someone who supports almost all trans rights with the exception of sports and child transitioning, is an ally, not an enemy.
It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong as that's already much farther than many conservatives are willing to go.
Someone who supports a New Hampshire style abortion law of up to 24 weeks with exceptions beyond that for fatal fetal diagnosis or the life of the mother is an ally, not an enemy.
Compare them to almost all anti-abortionists and one would have to admit that the NH law is practically progressive when compared to them.
Someone who thinks citizens can have AR-15 style rifles with silencers and 60 round magazines but also Believes in instituting universal Background checks without exceptions for all gun transfers, safe storage laws, and only having to pass the background check and mandatory gun safety class/es to own semi-automitic firearms, or at least to conceal carry them is an ally not an enemy.
There's more of course but i think those are the big ones except for immigration which is the biggest but i don't have time to write about that now.
People who hold the above views are at best tolerated and at worst demonized when trying to he part of the Democrats or just supporting a candidate they both agree on.
The tent NEEDS to be BIGGER!
You are talking about issues that you care about. But many independents don't consider trans rights to be an issue at all, or may have an opinion on abortion but don't vote based on it.
Most people on the fence will vote on the economy and general vibes. Mainstream voters associate the vigor of a candidate with their ability to influence the economy. That's where Biden is slipping and likely can't recover.
But more than anything, a majority of Americans are just looking for a "normal" president at this point. Because of Trump, only Democrats can give them that. But time is running short.
I chose those things because in my personal experience interacting with many independents in the NY/NJ area and whatever i see them wrote online those subjects are often discussed and i also see Democrats (and not just the progressives) criticizing people who hold those views.
My personal views on Trans rights and abortion are more progressive than the moderate views i wrote in the previous comment whereas i am actually even more pro-gun than the moderate view i wrote previously.
Views on the economy seems to IMO to be vibes based so it's a messaging problem not a policy problem.
Immigration is a separate issue and complicated, it's not as simple as open borders or building a wall, but iirc based on polls it was that and the economy which are the most important to voters overall.
Yes, they're looking for someone "normal" but that's not enough, Democrats need to be able to offer someone better than just normal to be sure of being liked by moderates/independents and of winning the election.
Dude even people on this sub, which has a QUEEN ping group, hate that Hillary had the audacity to run for president, much less the general electorate.
I can't even imagine how much more voters would lose their shit over a non-white woman who worked as a prosecutor.
(A) No. (B) Who gives a fuck about "energizing democrats"? We're all gonna vote blue no matter what. The issue is capturing that sliver of undecided/independent voter we need to push it over the top. And "female empowerment, rah" isn't gonna appeal to those folks.
B) uhhhh, anyone who wants a democratic presidency? Have we just collectively decided to forget that the base being energetic and motivated is incredibly important for elections?
My point is that "the base" is already as motivated as they're gonna be.
Really? You think that after last night the Dems are at maximum enthusiasm? What fucking planet is this lol
We don't need to motivate the base any further. They're motivated by hating Trump (correctly). We need to motivate swing voters.
Do people think this sub is the base lol? Half the left has been calling him “genocide joe” for months. I know it’s a cliche to talk about this sub being out of touch but Jesus Christ, this is what people think a base at maximum motivation is?
The left aren't the base of the Democratic party.
Whaaaaa? You mean the people that constantly attack Dems from the left (with insane takes like “Genocide Joe” before the election (bur for some reason ignore that the Republican candidate would do), then vote 3rd party to teach Dems “a lesson” (if they bother to vote at all) aren’t the Democratic base? Color me shocked!
The democrats aren’t a left wing party, they’re a broad center left coalition.
Hilariously bad idea
Hell no The voters HATE women
I doubt that women would be unelectable simply due to being women, but I also doubt that simply being women also wouldn't be energizing enough for people at this point, even with the issue of abortion rights.
Nope, I’m not even gonna humor this
Clinton won popular vote in 2016. Voters are not unwilling to vote for a woman. Just gotta find a good one.
Yeah I doubt it right now
No
Any recs?
Accept that the electorate is bigoted and nominate some cishet white Christian men from the heartland like Andy Beshear or Roy Cooper. Maybe Josh Shapiro but he's Jewish. I say that as a trans woman. We don't have the luxury of ignoring that the electorate sucks. The stakes are too high. We absolutely have to win 2024. Swing voters are freaked out by what they see as Dems being too far left. Best way to assuage that is with some white bread candidates. Policy is less important than optics.
>Accept that the electorate is bigoted and nominate some cishet white Christian men from the heartland like Andy Beshear or Roy Cooper It's 2024 not 2008. Wouldn't most people who would have defected to Republicans due to bigotry have long done so by now? Of course, I do think that having a "cishet white Christian man" either as president or VP candidate wouldn't be a bad idea either, if they are simply a good candidate.
Both those dudes are like white bread.
That's literally the point.
They have zero name recognition with the average voter and there is zero appeal. I don’t understand why people drop these seemingly random names as if they are gonna come save the day.
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I meant that the electorate is bigoted overall, not that every individual is bigoted (although that could probably be argued). And yes, a lot of the bigotry is coming from cishet white Christians. They're the core supporters of the Republican Party which is a threat to democracy. We need to design the ticket to allay their delusional fears so that bigoted swing voters in that group can have someone to vote for besides Trump.
The people you worry about are probably already strongly Republican. Such people wouldn't defect to Democrats anyways even if you ran a candidate so white, male, and Christian that he makes Trump look like an atheist woman of color. So if Biden is really not a good candidate, then the best thing would be to find whoever is actually electable, without worrying too much about their identities. Honestly, I think people are just panicking too much.
Just genuinely curious!
Probably not, no.
What do you think the best course of action is? Just curious!
I’ll be honest, my general vibe is pure doom. Only reasonable course of action to me seems to be getting Joe in front of cameras a whole lot, hope he’s able to keep up energy and hope that the entropy of the news cycle throws us a bone or two. But one thing I know for sure is that voters hate women. Who is a two woman ticket going to flip?
Stop trying to make Kamala Harris happen. For the life of me I’ll never understand this. She did horrendous in the primaries.
Wes Moore/Mary Peltola or Beshear/McBath 🙏
Energize democrats? I guess, probably. Would it be an improvement or worse than the biden age debacle for swing voters is the convo to have.
If Kamala was the candidate the final result would be Trump +10 instead of Trump +2 or 3.
Democrats don't need to energize Democrats they need to win over independents and Trump-doubting Republicans. Of course both Gretchen and Kamala are far better choices than Trump, but that doesn't matter if the majority in PA, GA, AZ, WI do not make that choice. And they won't make that choice for either of these two women. The person that can beat Trump is a white male with a military and/or business background. The DEI agenda needs to wait four more years. Otherwise it will be set back a decade or more if Trump wins.
>Democrats don't need to energize Democrats they need to win over independents and Trump-doubting Republicans. And how are they going to do that when they don't even try to appeal to them. If they want to appeal to moderates they need to stop treating them the same as they treat extremists. Someone who supports almost all trans rights with the exception of sports and child transitioning, is an ally, not an enemy. It doesn't matter if they're right or wrong as that's already much farther than many conservatives are willing to go. Someone who supports a New Hampshire style abortion law of up to 24 weeks with exceptions beyond that for fatal fetal diagnosis or the life of the mother is an ally, not an enemy. Compare them to almost all anti-abortionists and one would have to admit that the NH law is practically progressive when compared to them. Someone who thinks citizens can have AR-15 style rifles with silencers and 60 round magazines but also Believes in instituting universal Background checks without exceptions for all gun transfers, safe storage laws, and only having to pass the background check and mandatory gun safety class/es to own semi-automitic firearms, or at least to conceal carry them is an ally not an enemy. There's more of course but i think those are the big ones except for immigration which is the biggest but i don't have time to write about that now. People who hold the above views are at best tolerated and at worst demonized when trying to he part of the Democrats or just supporting a candidate they both agree on. The tent NEEDS to be BIGGER!
You are talking about issues that you care about. But many independents don't consider trans rights to be an issue at all, or may have an opinion on abortion but don't vote based on it. Most people on the fence will vote on the economy and general vibes. Mainstream voters associate the vigor of a candidate with their ability to influence the economy. That's where Biden is slipping and likely can't recover. But more than anything, a majority of Americans are just looking for a "normal" president at this point. Because of Trump, only Democrats can give them that. But time is running short.
I chose those things because in my personal experience interacting with many independents in the NY/NJ area and whatever i see them wrote online those subjects are often discussed and i also see Democrats (and not just the progressives) criticizing people who hold those views. My personal views on Trans rights and abortion are more progressive than the moderate views i wrote in the previous comment whereas i am actually even more pro-gun than the moderate view i wrote previously. Views on the economy seems to IMO to be vibes based so it's a messaging problem not a policy problem. Immigration is a separate issue and complicated, it's not as simple as open borders or building a wall, but iirc based on polls it was that and the economy which are the most important to voters overall. Yes, they're looking for someone "normal" but that's not enough, Democrats need to be able to offer someone better than just normal to be sure of being liked by moderates/independents and of winning the election.
Dude even people on this sub, which has a QUEEN ping group, hate that Hillary had the audacity to run for president, much less the general electorate. I can't even imagine how much more voters would lose their shit over a non-white woman who worked as a prosecutor.
If Michele was the top of ticket, they could pick anyone for vp
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