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She was among the least-liked candidates during the primaries. She was only chosen, I'm sorry to say, for a more diverse ticket. She has no charisma or personality.
I'm starting to suspect Biden picked her *because* of her unpopularity. If he's going to have people constantly complaining he's too old, it helps if the replacement is not great either.
Folks in here want to say she’s a terrible politician who can’t run a campaign, but she knew when to drop out and rally behind the guy to get the VP slot and that’s why she’s where she is and Pete is at DOT.
Revisionist take. She dropped out early and was never competitive. Her campaign was terribly ran and imploded by December 2019. She should get as much credit for the eventual rally behind Biden as Beto.
It stems from the belief that she's the Democratic Marco Rubio, a robotic empty suit that gets wheeled out whenever it suits the party.
I like Kamala more than most and would be fine with her as the nominee, but it's not hard to understand where that view comes from.
People are posting polls, but maybe this will be a more salient illustration.
___
Article by the NYT Editorial Board calling on Biden to drop out:
[To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html)
**Top Comment:**
> He should announce that he is stepping aside for the sake of the country on July 4. He would go down in history forever as a true American patriot. +3787
Article by the NYT calling on Kamala Harris to replace Biden, located just under the previous one on the homepage:
[Kamala Harris Could Win This Election. Let Her.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/kamala-harris-biden-debate.html)
**Top Comment:**
> Hoo boy. There's delusion. There's clinical delusion. And then, there's this. +1641
___
Many such cases, I'm afraid. If you have a NYT subscription, go through both articles' comments and see just how adamant these people are that:
i.) Biden should drop out, and...
ii.) Harris is not the one to replace him.
I've had real conversations where people say they do not like Biden because of his age and maybe he needs to retire early. Then, when I remind them Harris is the VP, they groan or just stop the conversation. There might not be a coherent reason why voters dislike her, except for the feeling she is not "it." She is simply not liked by many and it could get worse under the limelight.
To give a reason why she isn’t “it”
[This basically sums it up](https://youtu.be/72vUngNA9RM?si=qmqsfS3SaEq-4oH8). Harris somehow cannot come across as genuine or charismatic at all. Whether that’s a Selina Meyer level of narcissistic power. Or she’s simply an awkward person in the front of the camera and never figured how to “fake it.” I can’t say.
SNL nailed it a few years ago when it seemed like during the primaries she was hunting for a “cool aunt energy” and seemed more fixated on trying to create big statements in the debates to go viral rather than seeming any sort of genuine about any issue or her whole pitch for the Presidency.
She’s completely devoid of anything resembling political skill or talent. She’s ambitious, photogenic, reasonably smart, and that package has gotten her pretty far…. But there’s no making up for what is obviously missing.
Does it really matter at this point? All you need is someone that apparently breathes and is capable of responding to Trump's lies, which Harris would excel at being a former prosecutor.
When Clinton ran she had 38 years of opposition research and propaganda that had been shaping public opinion about her.
I'm a leftist and most of the hate for Harris was fueled by the George Floyd protests and anti-police sentiments. It was a vocal minority on the left espousing sentiments that were popular for a brief period, but thoroughly rejected by Americans within a year. In the eyes of the public, Harris is much better than Clinton.
Harris was unpolished in 2020, but she's come a long way.
>a person with an unlikeable personality who comes off as very unpersonable
People who have met Clinton in person say she’s like insanely warm. It’s a shame that the electorate didn’t get those vibes.
For fun, here’s an anecdote I read on a different sub:
“I've sat down to a (group) dinner with the Clintons and this is 100% spot on.
I was never a fan, and I watched that doc she made about her 2016 loss and actively disliked her after that. But after that dinner, I couldn't remember why. Amazing how comes off SO BAD in her own press material (like the doc) but is so warm and personable in person! This was about 2 years ago.”
Who knows. Kill me for repeating this hackneyed observation, but I think there is certainly a double standard when it comes to lady politicians. Almost anything they do gets chalked up to not being likable when its like…Maybe we aren’t used to seeing women in power? I remember when Clinton tried to be more relatable, people just mocked her for being dorky. Like that stupid boba tea meme.
These attitudes are pretty pervasive about women in politics. They are either seen as too harsh to be likable, or not competent enough to engage politically. Even when talking about women voters, the phrases “wine moms” or “resist-a-libs” are pejoratives. It’s kind of maddening to read 19 year old dudes mock 30+ year old women for being politically active/engaged. You know, because why should they have a place in political discourse?
I've heard much the same about Harris: completely warm and personable in person (she is a politician after all!) but not popular on the political stage.
I don't doubt that sexism is part of the vibes issue – especially having seen some of the mud slung at her earlier in her career – and racism too, insofar as it's assumed by some that idpol got her to where she is. But I think there are other factors too: she's Californian – worse, she's a Yay Arean 😉 – and she's further to the left than Biden (but a former prosecutor and DA so anathema to much of the left wing).
> People who have met Clinton in person say she’s like insanely warm. It’s a shame that the electorate didn’t get those vibes.
Watch her interview on Stern, where she's relaxed.
_That_ woman would have won, hands down.
During her campaign, she would switch from progressive to moderate and back depending on which faction of her staff she talked with last.
I was never her fan, but she’s the only possible option to replace Biden without generating a ton of infighting. And at this point, I’ll take it.
Progressives are liberals ya ding dong. They don't want to overthrow capitalism. Well I mean Bernie probably does, but he's so constrained by the political reality that he can't even say that out loud. Progressives are not socialists. It isn't allowed.
For me her campaign history shows she isn’t ready to be a leader. Even graded on the curve of campaigns, which are notoriously dysfunctional, her campaigns have been exceptionally shitshow like. She appointed her sister campaign chair…
The president’s single biggest role is managing a massive bureaucracy. They directly appoint thousands and through their team lead millions. I don’t feel she is able to successfully delegate and manage at that scale.
Of course the number of voters who care about this is probably in the double digits so it is irrelevant to actual conversations about electability lol
She won multiple statewide elections in CA and ran one national race.
That one national campaign wasn’t great, but why is she the only one who gets branded as forever done after one national race? How many times did Biden and Bernie get to run a national race?
How are so many here failing to see such stark double standards applied to Harris?
[Kamala Harris Is Gaining Swing-State Voters' Trust to Step In for Biden](https://archive.is/2024.05.24-094614/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-24/kamala-harris-gains-voter-trust-in-2024-election-swing-state-poll)
Harris beats every other dem mentioned here as the top pick amongst potential Biden replacements including Buttigieg and Whitmer.
She also would likely win the delegate vote in an open convention. People are delusional crazy if they think the delegates who were specifically selected to be rabid partisan Biden/Harris voters are going to abandon her for some generic Midwestern Democrat that has no national level experience at all.
“Still, despite voters’ uptick in confidence in Harris, she trailed Trump by 7 percentage points in a hypothetical head-to-head, wider than the 4-point advantage Trump held over Biden in the poll.”
And that’s why Biden should lead the ticket.
But the OP is asking about the Kamala hate in this sub and why everyone presumes it wouldn’t obviously be her if it wasn’t Biden. Amongst democrats who would be deciding, she leads comfortably and is the next top pick after Biden.
Yeah if Biden drops out I'd prefer someone more competitive (although she might be as competitive as anyone else), but if Biden stays in and wins I honestly hope he resigns and lets her be president. I think she's a better politician than candidate.
She did basically call Biden a racist and segregationist in the first primary debate, than laughed it off when questioned by Colbert ad "it was a *debate* hahaha!"
Since then I've never really liked her. Not a reason not to vote for/nominate her, though.
People saying that this is a race thing are acting like the pundits wouldn't declare Michelle Obama the candidate in a heartbeat.
Harris is just unlikable. She is like a less competent Hillary with less baggage but the same fundamental issues.
Women are only good candidates in the hypothetical. We fawn over them until they actually run. It happened with Hillary, it happened with Warren, it would happen with Michelle Obama, and it’ll happen with Gretchen Whitmer, too. “I’d vote for a woman, just not THAT woman.” But they all become “THAT woman” eventually.
I just named Elizabeth Warren, and forgot to even mention Kamala Harris. I’ve watched it happen in real time. They’re always shrill or cold or calculating or just have something about them. It’ll happen again. Same as it ever was.
This sub is slow to update its priors. She has a higher approval rating than Biden, is good at attacking Trump, and isn't a senior citizen. In a vacuum, I'd say that she's a below-replacement level pick. In 2020, she couldn't decide if she should be the progressive or moderate pick, pleasing nobody. People talk about her being a woman, but frankly we were a Comey Letter away from electing a woman in 2016. If anything, I feel like Dobbs improves a woman's chances, all else being equal.
Trump is not a strong candidate, I'd argue weaker than in 2016 or even 2020. The fact that Biden was essentially tied before this debate, tells me that if Dems put up somebody who voters see as ok, they'd have a pretty damn good shot.
And then you have people like my dad who says he’d vote for Condi Rice but has a problem with the idea of voting for Kamala, simply because she’s just not likable. He will be voting for Biden though.
Aside from a little golf, doing interviews, and being part of the College Football Playoff Selection Committee, I don’t think she’s done too much. Not sure what his affinity with her is.
Mostly just be rumored as a potential VP
There were rumors in 2008 and 2012, and Bob Woodward's book in 2018 had a claim from Reince Priebus that after the Access Hollywood tape there were attempts that Pence was onboard with to pivot to a Pence/Rice ticket
She only has a higher approval because she hasn't had to actually appear in any meaningful manner to the public nor has had to actually make any political decisions. If you want her real approval rating, look at her success (lack thereof) in the 2020 primary.
The reasons the electorate as a whole doesn't seem to like her and the reasons people tuned into politics sometimes don't like her are... slightly different.
I checked out her website during her 2020 Dem candidate election, hoping to find out where she stood and what she’d do.
Her platform was extremely shallow, and I’m not sure any issue had more than a paragraph of text. It was all vague promises without substance or any concrete proposals for how to actually achieve them.
Compared to Warren, for example, who was writing position papers on basically every topic… it was very disappointing. Why are you even running, if you don’t have any ideas for what to do when you get there?
It has been a couple years, but after the 2020 debates I had a strong dislike of her. She comes off as fake, condescending, and tries to play the race + gender card where it is not appropriate. She flip flopped her positions on issues quickly whenever she thought it would be politically useful.
It's because many folks are repeating past criticisms that don't apply anymore, like her supposed low approval rating. That isn't even true anymore considering how she isn't more disapproved of than Biden. He's way more unpopular.
>Kamala has a net approval of -10.1% compared to Biden's 17.9%
From the FiveThirtyEight website
She leads Biden's approval by like, 2 points. That counts for something, right? /s
Nevermind, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in approval. It seems that more people are don't knows.
Her approval rating is based on her being in the public equivalent of the basement and based on her making literally 0 decisions of consequence. Her lack of actual approval was evident in the 2020 primary. She is not a winning candidate. You can blame it on whatever you want, but she could be a straight white man and she'd still lose.
Its cause she's a black liberal woman from California thats why.
Like theres no beating around the bush I'm black i like her she's not winning the rust belt. She's too vilified by the media.
She to many people is like a reverse trump it sounds odd but from the conservative standpoint her being her and how she acts drives them nuts so they'll go out in droves to vote against her
I was just chatting with some of my black friends about Kamala replacing Joe, and they were all of the opinion “I don’t think she could win…”
Black people aren’t stupid. They remember where Kamala finished in the 2020 primary. So many elitist white people fretting “We’ll offend black voters if we don’t stick with a black candidate…”. Black people know how the world works…*in very real fucking ways*. They don’t need someone to protect their feelings. They often have better political instincts than the so-called experts.
They’ll vote for who they think can win.
Why doesn’t Biden pick another vp…could be a black person or not, then announce he will serve one more year as a transition president before stepping down. That way they run as like a package deal. Or is that not allowed?
All arguments for Kamala hinge on electoral math, making abortion more of an issue, what demographics she should hypothetically be able to secure, etc.
Not a single one of the arguments for Kamala include any reference to her accomplishments as VP (she has none) or her skill as a politician (bad).
Even the things she should be good at, she sucks at. Her abysmal interview with Dana Bash following the Dobbs decision showed that she should never be considered for elected office again.
You nailed it. You can be a woman, black, or from California. You cannot be all three at once. Kamala would get slaughtered in a general election. For all the people that say, “But the polling!” The polls are wrong. She’s not running for president right now so whatever the polls say is wrong. The polls were completely wrong about Trump in 2016 and I wasn’t fooled then either. A huge portion of America is small minded and hateful. A huge portion of America is racist and/or misogynist even if they would never admit it. A huge portion of America absolutely hates California and believe it is some kind of Mad Max hellscape.
Some of us actually remember how she went from supporting universal healthcare to not in literally under 12 hours during the 2020 primary campaign. She has the political instincts of a wet piece of wood. Her gender and race certainly play a part with a certain part of the population. For the rest of us with brains, that has nothing to do with it, and her lack of any logical sense has everything to do with it. She has done precisely nothing with her vice presidency. She is a nothing politician.
She dropped out pretty early in the 2020 primary because she doesn't have much support. I can't really see that having changed in 2024.
Gavin and Gretchin and other people have the benefit of not having already been rejected by the dem electorate.
There’s a lot of people who would be mad if she’s not the choice, but she’s a terrible politician and it’s not clear exactly what her values are.
She might get in through Biden not being able to go any more but there’s zero chance she’d win a contested primary IMO.
you know what all these gabagools think. You'll even see it in this sub.
"There's just something about her". I wonder what it could be.
"She's just so unlikeable". Hmm.. gee where have I heard that before.
"She doesn't have what it takes". About a powerful senator and the goddamn VP.
"She's whiny/overbearing/bossy/sassy/too coastal/too elitist". For any of that, just read uppity in it's place.
Idk I just feel like she has a dark vision for America...
In all seriousness it is true that her being a black woman colors people's perception of her as well as perception of her electability. But there are also some legitimate reasons to be sour on her.
* Allegations and rumors of office drama have plagued her as long as she has been in office. Her 2020 campaign was exceptionally mismanaged. She has not demonstrated a great radar for skill, loyalty, and internal chemistry in the people she surrounds herself with.
* She can be a very good communicator when presented with issues she is passionate about, like abortion and criminal justice. When confronted with other issues, her disinterest can be very transparent, coming across as uninformed and unserious.
* I don't get the sense that she has a super coherent worldview on a lot of issues. This ideological flexibility could go both ways electorally-- she can avoid taking unpopular positions or she can get stuck answering for flip-flops. She seemed to be more firmly centrist back in state and local office but she was so easily pulled to the left during her 2020 campaign which worries me.
* She needs more media training period. If she replaces Biden she needs to run a tight ship and not have her "you exist in the context of all in which you live" type moments become her version of Biden's senior moments.
those are all reasonable asks.
yet, she's the *only* one that can easily access the $200m+ cash on hand of the biden campaign due to her being on the current ticket. Joe exiting is what everyone here has been screaming for. But there's 0% chance his replacement is anyone other than Kamala. When faced with that *reality*, everyone, including a lot of anons in this thread, all of sudden develop cold feet and start hedging. Your list doesn't explain that. Everyone is clamoring for a "safe" pair of hands and she explicitly offers that. You tell me what's going on?
Yeah, I mostly agree. I do not think Harris would be a catastrophic nominee at all. I do think she has some issues that would need to be worked out, though.
She flip flopped on a major political position - healthcare - within 12 hours of beginning her 2020 primary campaign. She is not a serious candidate, even if she was a straight white man.
There’s no doubt that her being a black woman would be an issue with the electorate. But now you’re straight up veering in to “if you don’t like her you must be a bigot.”
This couldn't be more on the nose if you tried.
Everyone has been screaming they want a safe pair of hands because Joe isn't fit and the election is too risky and we just need someone Dems can go "phew, at least they're cogent" and breathe a sigh of relief.
Well, we have someone who's the VP and is articulate and pretty boring. And she has the advantage of being able to leverage the $200 mil cash on hand that the campaign has which any other nominee won't be able to easily. And yet all of a sudden, including in this very thread, people will climb over each other to claim she's terrible and blah blah blah. You tell me why?
>
> Everyone has been screaming they want a safe pair of hands because Joe isn't fit and the election is too risky and we just need someone Dems can go "phew, at least they're cogent" and breathe a sigh of relief.
I'm not. So you're calling me a bigot because of what some other people are saying?
> Well, we have someone who's the VP and is articulate and pretty boring. And she has the advantage of being able to leverage the $200 mil cash on hand that the campaign has which any other nominee won't be able to easily. And yet all of a sudden, including in this very thread, people will climb over each other to claim she's terrible and blah blah blah. You tell me why?
Because she has the charisma of a Yield sign. Because she felt like a weak as Hell candidate in the primary and hasn't done anything in 4 years as VP to increase her profile.
These are not substantive reasons to not like her. If you just don’t like her for no reason, it’s a fair conclusion to draw.
Ron desantis had a weird laugh. How many times have you heard anyone cite that as their reason for disliking him? No one. They dislike him for his psychotic anti woke (ie anti free speech) enforcement or another of many substantive policy reasons.
Nobody ever gives these as reasons for not liking male politicians because they’re completely irrational bases to evaluate political candidates. It’s holding her to a double standard on something impossible to measure: groundless feels.
>They dislike him for his psychotic anti woke (ie anti free speech) enforcement or another of many substantive policy reasons.
Disagree, he was pretty unpopular during the GOP primaries where the electorate shared his opinions. He has a legitimate debilitating lack of charisma.
Plenty of people dogged on Desantis for the pic of him looking like a loser in front of Joe Biden. Get real. There's literally a candidate in recent history who was a straight white male who lost his chance because he did a weird yell.
I think you’re missing the point.
Sure, people dogged Desantis over that.
Not a single person, if you asked why they weren’t getting behind Desantis, would rely on that as a reason for withholding their support.
To double underline the point: the reasons for nonsupport are substantive, not hollow bullshit reasons like “I don’t like the way he laughs” or “he looked stupid in a photo one time,” as reasons for writing him off completely.
Given this sub's worship of Hillary, it's not the woman thing they don't like. The black thing though for sure, this sub gets consistently fucking nasty whenever black issues are brought up
For this sub theres a decent amount of people too willing to hate on a black woman anonymously.
But there is a truth to it where she just kind of reeks of politician. She tried to be progressive in the debate which came off as pandering because everyone knows her background.
Its like when people review bomb movies imo. Yea its fair to give it a 4-6/10 but acting like its a 1 means youre needlessly offended by it.
**Rule VIII:** *Submission Quality* Submissions should contain some level of analysis or argument. General news reporting should be restricted to particularly important developments with significant policy implications. Low quality memes will be removed at moderator discretion. Feel free to post other general news or low quality memes to the stickied Discussion Thread. --- If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
She was among the least-liked candidates during the primaries. She was only chosen, I'm sorry to say, for a more diverse ticket. She has no charisma or personality.
I'm starting to suspect Biden picked her *because* of her unpopularity. If he's going to have people constantly complaining he's too old, it helps if the replacement is not great either.
The Mike Pence strategy
Legitimately terrible idea for the preservation of the republic if that’s the case. I choose not to believe that
This is a r/politics level of a dumb hot take. You know this sub has gone to shit when comments like this get upvoted.
Harris was the most qualified person to be VP, but there’s always going to be the guy that says black people don’t deserve their accomplishments.
Folks in here want to say she’s a terrible politician who can’t run a campaign, but she knew when to drop out and rally behind the guy to get the VP slot and that’s why she’s where she is and Pete is at DOT.
Revisionist take. She dropped out early and was never competitive. Her campaign was terribly ran and imploded by December 2019. She should get as much credit for the eventual rally behind Biden as Beto.
[удалено]
He promised a woman for VP. His short list included a bunch of white women. Don’t try to rewrite history to dump someone’s accomplishments.
It stems from the belief that she's the Democratic Marco Rubio, a robotic empty suit that gets wheeled out whenever it suits the party. I like Kamala more than most and would be fine with her as the nominee, but it's not hard to understand where that view comes from.
People are posting polls, but maybe this will be a more salient illustration. ___ Article by the NYT Editorial Board calling on Biden to drop out: [To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html) **Top Comment:** > He should announce that he is stepping aside for the sake of the country on July 4. He would go down in history forever as a true American patriot. +3787 Article by the NYT calling on Kamala Harris to replace Biden, located just under the previous one on the homepage: [Kamala Harris Could Win This Election. Let Her.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/kamala-harris-biden-debate.html) **Top Comment:** > Hoo boy. There's delusion. There's clinical delusion. And then, there's this. +1641 ___ Many such cases, I'm afraid. If you have a NYT subscription, go through both articles' comments and see just how adamant these people are that: i.) Biden should drop out, and... ii.) Harris is not the one to replace him. I've had real conversations where people say they do not like Biden because of his age and maybe he needs to retire early. Then, when I remind them Harris is the VP, they groan or just stop the conversation. There might not be a coherent reason why voters dislike her, except for the feeling she is not "it." She is simply not liked by many and it could get worse under the limelight.
To give a reason why she isn’t “it” [This basically sums it up](https://youtu.be/72vUngNA9RM?si=qmqsfS3SaEq-4oH8). Harris somehow cannot come across as genuine or charismatic at all. Whether that’s a Selina Meyer level of narcissistic power. Or she’s simply an awkward person in the front of the camera and never figured how to “fake it.” I can’t say. SNL nailed it a few years ago when it seemed like during the primaries she was hunting for a “cool aunt energy” and seemed more fixated on trying to create big statements in the debates to go viral rather than seeming any sort of genuine about any issue or her whole pitch for the Presidency.
My father hates her because she called Biden a racist just to become his VP a few weeks later.
She did not call Biden a racist. She literally said the exact opposite.
https://youtu.be/S6-UC8yr0Aw?si=lq_wO1Z37-rzgnLW If you can’t read subtext than your right.
I don’t think that this happened. Can you provide a link?
She’s completely devoid of anything resembling political skill or talent. She’s ambitious, photogenic, reasonably smart, and that package has gotten her pretty far…. But there’s no making up for what is obviously missing.
Does it really matter at this point? All you need is someone that apparently breathes and is capable of responding to Trump's lies, which Harris would excel at being a former prosecutor.
Most people forgot she even existed these past 4 years.
Did you just fall out of a coconut tree?
Yes 🗿
As a leftist, this kind of made me like her a lot to be honest. It's basically historical materialism refined to a very cute and funny phrase.
The same reason your average American didn’t like Clinton, an person with an unlikeable personality who comes off as very unpersonable.
When Clinton ran she had 38 years of opposition research and propaganda that had been shaping public opinion about her. I'm a leftist and most of the hate for Harris was fueled by the George Floyd protests and anti-police sentiments. It was a vocal minority on the left espousing sentiments that were popular for a brief period, but thoroughly rejected by Americans within a year. In the eyes of the public, Harris is much better than Clinton. Harris was unpolished in 2020, but she's come a long way.
This, when Hillary was looking to win the primary in 2008 they fucking played a movie from 1994 or whatever about how bad they were.
>a person with an unlikeable personality who comes off as very unpersonable People who have met Clinton in person say she’s like insanely warm. It’s a shame that the electorate didn’t get those vibes. For fun, here’s an anecdote I read on a different sub: “I've sat down to a (group) dinner with the Clintons and this is 100% spot on. I was never a fan, and I watched that doc she made about her 2016 loss and actively disliked her after that. But after that dinner, I couldn't remember why. Amazing how comes off SO BAD in her own press material (like the doc) but is so warm and personable in person! This was about 2 years ago.” Who knows. Kill me for repeating this hackneyed observation, but I think there is certainly a double standard when it comes to lady politicians. Almost anything they do gets chalked up to not being likable when its like…Maybe we aren’t used to seeing women in power? I remember when Clinton tried to be more relatable, people just mocked her for being dorky. Like that stupid boba tea meme. These attitudes are pretty pervasive about women in politics. They are either seen as too harsh to be likable, or not competent enough to engage politically. Even when talking about women voters, the phrases “wine moms” or “resist-a-libs” are pejoratives. It’s kind of maddening to read 19 year old dudes mock 30+ year old women for being politically active/engaged. You know, because why should they have a place in political discourse?
I've heard much the same about Harris: completely warm and personable in person (she is a politician after all!) but not popular on the political stage. I don't doubt that sexism is part of the vibes issue – especially having seen some of the mud slung at her earlier in her career – and racism too, insofar as it's assumed by some that idpol got her to where she is. But I think there are other factors too: she's Californian – worse, she's a Yay Arean 😉 – and she's further to the left than Biden (but a former prosecutor and DA so anathema to much of the left wing).
Hillary writes compellingly about the challenges women face in politics in her book _What Happened._
> People who have met Clinton in person say she’s like insanely warm. It’s a shame that the electorate didn’t get those vibes. Watch her interview on Stern, where she's relaxed. _That_ woman would have won, hands down.
Gee I wonder what they have in common
when viewed through the lens of the media telling you to feel that way
Dawg, I’ve talked to so many people, Harris just isn’t likable, she comes off as fake as that staged Schumer grilling picture
During her campaign, she would switch from progressive to moderate and back depending on which faction of her staff she talked with last. I was never her fan, but she’s the only possible option to replace Biden without generating a ton of infighting. And at this point, I’ll take it.
> she would switch from progressive to moderate and back No, she would switch from progressive to liberal and back. There's a difference.
She would switch from hard-leftist to mild social democrat. The only true liberal candidate is Chase Oliver.
Progressives are liberals ya ding dong. They don't want to overthrow capitalism. Well I mean Bernie probably does, but he's so constrained by the political reality that he can't even say that out loud. Progressives are not socialists. It isn't allowed.
For me her campaign history shows she isn’t ready to be a leader. Even graded on the curve of campaigns, which are notoriously dysfunctional, her campaigns have been exceptionally shitshow like. She appointed her sister campaign chair… The president’s single biggest role is managing a massive bureaucracy. They directly appoint thousands and through their team lead millions. I don’t feel she is able to successfully delegate and manage at that scale. Of course the number of voters who care about this is probably in the double digits so it is irrelevant to actual conversations about electability lol
I’m sure it would be much less difficult now after being the vp and picking up where biden left off
She won multiple statewide elections in CA and ran one national race. That one national campaign wasn’t great, but why is she the only one who gets branded as forever done after one national race? How many times did Biden and Bernie get to run a national race? How are so many here failing to see such stark double standards applied to Harris?
[Kamala Harris Is Gaining Swing-State Voters' Trust to Step In for Biden](https://archive.is/2024.05.24-094614/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-24/kamala-harris-gains-voter-trust-in-2024-election-swing-state-poll) Harris beats every other dem mentioned here as the top pick amongst potential Biden replacements including Buttigieg and Whitmer.
She also would likely win the delegate vote in an open convention. People are delusional crazy if they think the delegates who were specifically selected to be rabid partisan Biden/Harris voters are going to abandon her for some generic Midwestern Democrat that has no national level experience at all.
“Still, despite voters’ uptick in confidence in Harris, she trailed Trump by 7 percentage points in a hypothetical head-to-head, wider than the 4-point advantage Trump held over Biden in the poll.”
And that’s why Biden should lead the ticket. But the OP is asking about the Kamala hate in this sub and why everyone presumes it wouldn’t obviously be her if it wasn’t Biden. Amongst democrats who would be deciding, she leads comfortably and is the next top pick after Biden.
I like Kamala actually and I wouldn't mind her being president if Biden dies. She's pretty hated though and she's not very charismatic
Yeah if Biden drops out I'd prefer someone more competitive (although she might be as competitive as anyone else), but if Biden stays in and wins I honestly hope he resigns and lets her be president. I think she's a better politician than candidate.
I wouldn’t be upset if Biden won and then resigned on January 21st
She did basically call Biden a racist and segregationist in the first primary debate, than laughed it off when questioned by Colbert ad "it was a *debate* hahaha!" Since then I've never really liked her. Not a reason not to vote for/nominate her, though.
People saying that this is a race thing are acting like the pundits wouldn't declare Michelle Obama the candidate in a heartbeat. Harris is just unlikable. She is like a less competent Hillary with less baggage but the same fundamental issues.
Women are only good candidates in the hypothetical. We fawn over them until they actually run. It happened with Hillary, it happened with Warren, it would happen with Michelle Obama, and it’ll happen with Gretchen Whitmer, too. “I’d vote for a woman, just not THAT woman.” But they all become “THAT woman” eventually.
What evidence for this exists besides Hillary.
I just named Elizabeth Warren, and forgot to even mention Kamala Harris. I’ve watched it happen in real time. They’re always shrill or cold or calculating or just have something about them. It’ll happen again. Same as it ever was.
Because the majority of Americans won't fucking vote for her. Do you understand how elections work?
This sub is slow to update its priors. She has a higher approval rating than Biden, is good at attacking Trump, and isn't a senior citizen. In a vacuum, I'd say that she's a below-replacement level pick. In 2020, she couldn't decide if she should be the progressive or moderate pick, pleasing nobody. People talk about her being a woman, but frankly we were a Comey Letter away from electing a woman in 2016. If anything, I feel like Dobbs improves a woman's chances, all else being equal. Trump is not a strong candidate, I'd argue weaker than in 2016 or even 2020. The fact that Biden was essentially tied before this debate, tells me that if Dems put up somebody who voters see as ok, they'd have a pretty damn good shot.
And then you have people like my dad who says he’d vote for Condi Rice but has a problem with the idea of voting for Kamala, simply because she’s just not likable. He will be voting for Biden though.
This is the second time I've seen Condi Rice mentioned in like 24ish hours; has she done anything in politics since the Bush administration?
She's running the Hoover Institution at Stanford. Once a university wonk, always a university wonk. 😛
Aside from a little golf, doing interviews, and being part of the College Football Playoff Selection Committee, I don’t think she’s done too much. Not sure what his affinity with her is.
Mostly just be rumored as a potential VP There were rumors in 2008 and 2012, and Bob Woodward's book in 2018 had a claim from Reince Priebus that after the Access Hollywood tape there were attempts that Pence was onboard with to pivot to a Pence/Rice ticket
She only has a higher approval because she hasn't had to actually appear in any meaningful manner to the public nor has had to actually make any political decisions. If you want her real approval rating, look at her success (lack thereof) in the 2020 primary.
Kamala’s failure in 2020 was not because of her policy platform, it was because of who she is as a person.
She has the most legitimate claim to the nomination, but she would lose badly. She would lose worse than this malfunctioning version of Biden would
The reasons the electorate as a whole doesn't seem to like her and the reasons people tuned into politics sometimes don't like her are... slightly different.
I checked out her website during her 2020 Dem candidate election, hoping to find out where she stood and what she’d do. Her platform was extremely shallow, and I’m not sure any issue had more than a paragraph of text. It was all vague promises without substance or any concrete proposals for how to actually achieve them. Compared to Warren, for example, who was writing position papers on basically every topic… it was very disappointing. Why are you even running, if you don’t have any ideas for what to do when you get there?
It has been a couple years, but after the 2020 debates I had a strong dislike of her. She comes off as fake, condescending, and tries to play the race + gender card where it is not appropriate. She flip flopped her positions on issues quickly whenever she thought it would be politically useful.
She's got the same draw as Ronald Desantis
It's because many folks are repeating past criticisms that don't apply anymore, like her supposed low approval rating. That isn't even true anymore considering how she isn't more disapproved of than Biden. He's way more unpopular. >Kamala has a net approval of -10.1% compared to Biden's 17.9% From the FiveThirtyEight website
Is her total approval higher though? I'd imagine this number gets carried by a lot of don't knows
She leads Biden's approval by like, 2 points. That counts for something, right? /s Nevermind, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in approval. It seems that more people are don't knows.
Her approval rating is based on her being in the public equivalent of the basement and based on her making literally 0 decisions of consequence. Her lack of actual approval was evident in the 2020 primary. She is not a winning candidate. You can blame it on whatever you want, but she could be a straight white man and she'd still lose.
Its cause she's a black liberal woman from California thats why. Like theres no beating around the bush I'm black i like her she's not winning the rust belt. She's too vilified by the media. She to many people is like a reverse trump it sounds odd but from the conservative standpoint her being her and how she acts drives them nuts so they'll go out in droves to vote against her
I was just chatting with some of my black friends about Kamala replacing Joe, and they were all of the opinion “I don’t think she could win…” Black people aren’t stupid. They remember where Kamala finished in the 2020 primary. So many elitist white people fretting “We’ll offend black voters if we don’t stick with a black candidate…”. Black people know how the world works…*in very real fucking ways*. They don’t need someone to protect their feelings. They often have better political instincts than the so-called experts. They’ll vote for who they think can win.
Why doesn’t Biden pick another vp…could be a black person or not, then announce he will serve one more year as a transition president before stepping down. That way they run as like a package deal. Or is that not allowed?
Tbh I think Biden should replace Harris with Booker. If he doesn’t leave at least replace the VP with someone younger.
Booker is great
All arguments for Kamala hinge on electoral math, making abortion more of an issue, what demographics she should hypothetically be able to secure, etc. Not a single one of the arguments for Kamala include any reference to her accomplishments as VP (she has none) or her skill as a politician (bad). Even the things she should be good at, she sucks at. Her abysmal interview with Dana Bash following the Dobbs decision showed that she should never be considered for elected office again.
You nailed it. You can be a woman, black, or from California. You cannot be all three at once. Kamala would get slaughtered in a general election. For all the people that say, “But the polling!” The polls are wrong. She’s not running for president right now so whatever the polls say is wrong. The polls were completely wrong about Trump in 2016 and I wasn’t fooled then either. A huge portion of America is small minded and hateful. A huge portion of America is racist and/or misogynist even if they would never admit it. A huge portion of America absolutely hates California and believe it is some kind of Mad Max hellscape.
Let's be honest... you can't even be two. But three is a death sentence
No, it's because she's a shit candidate with no leadership ability, no political instincts, and no chance of winning.
She comes off as a fake person who thinks she is better than you.
Some of us actually remember how she went from supporting universal healthcare to not in literally under 12 hours during the 2020 primary campaign. She has the political instincts of a wet piece of wood. Her gender and race certainly play a part with a certain part of the population. For the rest of us with brains, that has nothing to do with it, and her lack of any logical sense has everything to do with it. She has done precisely nothing with her vice presidency. She is a nothing politician.
She dropped out pretty early in the 2020 primary because she doesn't have much support. I can't really see that having changed in 2024. Gavin and Gretchin and other people have the benefit of not having already been rejected by the dem electorate.
There’s a lot of people who would be mad if she’s not the choice, but she’s a terrible politician and it’s not clear exactly what her values are. She might get in through Biden not being able to go any more but there’s zero chance she’d win a contested primary IMO.
Have you seen her talk for more than 10 minutes. She’s the queen of the word salad.
I don’t think he should stand down but she is the most qualified replacement. Senator, VP.
He has very bad takes on islam. Oh, you mean Kamala
you know what all these gabagools think. You'll even see it in this sub. "There's just something about her". I wonder what it could be. "She's just so unlikeable". Hmm.. gee where have I heard that before. "She doesn't have what it takes". About a powerful senator and the goddamn VP. "She's whiny/overbearing/bossy/sassy/too coastal/too elitist". For any of that, just read uppity in it's place.
Idk I just feel like she has a dark vision for America... In all seriousness it is true that her being a black woman colors people's perception of her as well as perception of her electability. But there are also some legitimate reasons to be sour on her. * Allegations and rumors of office drama have plagued her as long as she has been in office. Her 2020 campaign was exceptionally mismanaged. She has not demonstrated a great radar for skill, loyalty, and internal chemistry in the people she surrounds herself with. * She can be a very good communicator when presented with issues she is passionate about, like abortion and criminal justice. When confronted with other issues, her disinterest can be very transparent, coming across as uninformed and unserious. * I don't get the sense that she has a super coherent worldview on a lot of issues. This ideological flexibility could go both ways electorally-- she can avoid taking unpopular positions or she can get stuck answering for flip-flops. She seemed to be more firmly centrist back in state and local office but she was so easily pulled to the left during her 2020 campaign which worries me. * She needs more media training period. If she replaces Biden she needs to run a tight ship and not have her "you exist in the context of all in which you live" type moments become her version of Biden's senior moments.
those are all reasonable asks. yet, she's the *only* one that can easily access the $200m+ cash on hand of the biden campaign due to her being on the current ticket. Joe exiting is what everyone here has been screaming for. But there's 0% chance his replacement is anyone other than Kamala. When faced with that *reality*, everyone, including a lot of anons in this thread, all of sudden develop cold feet and start hedging. Your list doesn't explain that. Everyone is clamoring for a "safe" pair of hands and she explicitly offers that. You tell me what's going on?
Yeah, I mostly agree. I do not think Harris would be a catastrophic nominee at all. I do think she has some issues that would need to be worked out, though.
She flip flopped on a major political position - healthcare - within 12 hours of beginning her 2020 primary campaign. She is not a serious candidate, even if she was a straight white man.
There’s no doubt that her being a black woman would be an issue with the electorate. But now you’re straight up veering in to “if you don’t like her you must be a bigot.”
This couldn't be more on the nose if you tried. Everyone has been screaming they want a safe pair of hands because Joe isn't fit and the election is too risky and we just need someone Dems can go "phew, at least they're cogent" and breathe a sigh of relief. Well, we have someone who's the VP and is articulate and pretty boring. And she has the advantage of being able to leverage the $200 mil cash on hand that the campaign has which any other nominee won't be able to easily. And yet all of a sudden, including in this very thread, people will climb over each other to claim she's terrible and blah blah blah. You tell me why?
Because she'll lose. That's why.
> > Everyone has been screaming they want a safe pair of hands because Joe isn't fit and the election is too risky and we just need someone Dems can go "phew, at least they're cogent" and breathe a sigh of relief. I'm not. So you're calling me a bigot because of what some other people are saying? > Well, we have someone who's the VP and is articulate and pretty boring. And she has the advantage of being able to leverage the $200 mil cash on hand that the campaign has which any other nominee won't be able to easily. And yet all of a sudden, including in this very thread, people will climb over each other to claim she's terrible and blah blah blah. You tell me why? Because she has the charisma of a Yield sign. Because she felt like a weak as Hell candidate in the primary and hasn't done anything in 4 years as VP to increase her profile.
Articulate? Have you seen her on television?
These are not substantive reasons to not like her. If you just don’t like her for no reason, it’s a fair conclusion to draw. Ron desantis had a weird laugh. How many times have you heard anyone cite that as their reason for disliking him? No one. They dislike him for his psychotic anti woke (ie anti free speech) enforcement or another of many substantive policy reasons. Nobody ever gives these as reasons for not liking male politicians because they’re completely irrational bases to evaluate political candidates. It’s holding her to a double standard on something impossible to measure: groundless feels.
>They dislike him for his psychotic anti woke (ie anti free speech) enforcement or another of many substantive policy reasons. Disagree, he was pretty unpopular during the GOP primaries where the electorate shared his opinions. He has a legitimate debilitating lack of charisma.
Sure if you assume the the default state is liking a candidate enough to think they should be president.
Plenty of people dogged on Desantis for the pic of him looking like a loser in front of Joe Biden. Get real. There's literally a candidate in recent history who was a straight white male who lost his chance because he did a weird yell.
Dean’s campaign was over well before the Dean Scream.
I think you’re missing the point. Sure, people dogged Desantis over that. Not a single person, if you asked why they weren’t getting behind Desantis, would rely on that as a reason for withholding their support. To double underline the point: the reasons for nonsupport are substantive, not hollow bullshit reasons like “I don’t like the way he laughs” or “he looked stupid in a photo one time,” as reasons for writing him off completely.
You’re not wrong.
Given this sub's worship of Hillary, it's not the woman thing they don't like. The black thing though for sure, this sub gets consistently fucking nasty whenever black issues are brought up
For this sub theres a decent amount of people too willing to hate on a black woman anonymously. But there is a truth to it where she just kind of reeks of politician. She tried to be progressive in the debate which came off as pandering because everyone knows her background. Its like when people review bomb movies imo. Yea its fair to give it a 4-6/10 but acting like its a 1 means youre needlessly offended by it.
Harris Wittels was a great comedian; went way too soon
The Overton window has shifted far enough right that swing voters will not elect a black woman. Sad times.