Like u/Astramancer_ said. Columbine is the original, burned into the public consciousness; Uvalde is likewise burned in, not because it’s new, but because of the horror of the response.
I think it was more a comment about how it's actually remembered. There's a lot of school shooting between columbine today, yet if you ask a random person to list them they'll probably list Columbine, Sandy Hook, and now Uvalde.
Hey at least you guys always work as bad example for other countries.
Whenever shootings happen where police inted, there is more training in my country for police to deal with shootings.
This is how we got police officers to engage active shooters within 3 minutes of receiving the call in my country. Because they were trained on Columbine data.
What’s even worse is that the cops on the scene were actively preventing people from trying to run into the building to save the kids themselves. Those unarmed parents had more balls than the cops with guns and body armor
Next do the dozens of officers that came in bulletproof riot gear but stood out in the hallway as the kids were texting for help for something like 40 minutes.
He's a rare case where the level of cowardice is so high, its crossed a line in to criminal, and it's the line of criminal where a US cop is being held accountable.
That's a line that's so far in the distance, i don't think many people believed it existed.
There has to be some kind of accountability for this incredible failure of leadership. Their collective incompetence is a direct result of failed leadership. I still can't believe the abject cowardice we saw that day. Not even one of them said fuck this I'm going in.
The PARENTS were jumping the fence to go break in and tactically retrieve their kids. Other parents were held, more or less at gunpoint, preventing them from doing so. This town has millions in funding for a local PD and a school district PD. They did active shooter drills in full gear in that school less than a year before. Then they just did *FUCKING NOTHING* while a psychopath was on a spree for *AN HOUR*!
This man needs to be made an example of. The Nashville school shooting should be the textbook response.
If you're a first responder and are unwilling to put your life before the lives of innocents, find another career.
That's a good point. When cops are called out on doing a bad job they just stop doing their job all together. It happened in Minneapolis after George Floyd.
"If we can't kill with impunity, what's the point?"
>I'm predicting a lot of dead cops because of that.
IM NOT!!!! If Uvalde didn't get people mobbing the cops then I predict NOTHING will make that happen.
It's all talk.
Yep. If my kid is in a school where I'm hearing shots popping off and a cop is willing to shoot me to prevent me from going in because they're too cowardly to do so, then I guess I'll be dying with a back full of bullet holes.
I don't own a gun, and you'd have to shoot me to stop me from going into the school if my daughter was in there.
This isn't a gun ownership issue, it's a cowardice issue.
There should probably be a new word to describe the utterly heinous level of cowardice displayed that day. Cowardice that caused that much unimaginable pain to so many innocent babies and all their families who survive them is a whole other universe of “cowardice”.
I told my daughter if something pops off at school get out of the building through a window or exit and take your chances outside. Shelter in place is for the kids without a plan. Don’t roam the halls looking for a way out, where ever you are, there is likely a window. That’s your exit.
Every cop there should be charged with accessories to the murders that happened while guarding the killer. If you or I sat outside and stopped people at gunpoint from saving people while a killer was massacring we would be charged, they should have the same
If you stood by as a nurse or doctor while those in your charge died before your eyes, you’d be thrown out of the profession, shunned, criminally charged, and personally sued into oblivion.
This. As a nurse I don't get a free pass with violent patients that are deteriorating.
Reminds me of that tweet about Wendy's workers being better at de-escelating because they get fired if they don't.
Meanwhile these cunts had bullet proof vests, ARs and 300plus of them.
Cops are trained that their primary objective is to make it home to their families alive at the end of the day. These cowards all made it home alive, so for them, all went according to training, and it was a good day.
>If you're a first responder and are unwilling to put your life before the lives of innocents, find another career.
Period. The reason FR get my unquestionable respect is because I presume this is how they feel.
you know the supreme court has already opined that police are not responsible for protecting anyone, saving anyone, etc.
Gonna go a little political here but it needs to be stated. The true purpose of any police force in America is to protect the rich and their property...
i honestly believe that all officers there, from any agency, especially any that prevented action by others, should be on trial for criminally negligent homicide.
Accomplices. They are accomplices to the murder of 21 people. Had they just passively stood around it would be negligent homicide, but when they *actively* prevented others they became accomplices. They should be facing the maximum sentence that Texas has for being accomplices to the murder of 21 people.
Wouldn't stand up. The police have no legal obligation to protect you. You'd have to get the Supreme Court to take a look at Castle Rock vs Gonzalez, at the very least.
This discussion has nothing to do with "no obligation to protect."
It's about the Uvalde police prolonging a murder spree by actively stopping parents and other law enforcement agencies who tried to save their children.
It's not about the actions Uvalde police failed to do.
It's about the actions they took: to protect an active shooter on a murder spree of children.
I don't know why this nonsense keeps coming up in these Ulvade threads. It is an absurd talking point that has nothing to do with anything. These cops prevented non cops from taking action and it cost the lives of at least a few of the victims.
I can understand not being obligated to protect others. I hate it, it feels completely counter to the purpose of law enforcement, but that's the law as it is today.
It's stopping civilians from defending helpless people that fills me with rage. [Defense of others](https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/criminal-defense/defense-strategies/defense-of-others#:~:text=Texas%20law%2C%20as%20defined%20in,use%20of%20unlawful%20force%3B%20and) who are in imminent danger is legal in Texas, so what grounds do those officers have for blocking the parents from defending their own children?
But it is insane that they don't. That is the entire fundamental point of them having fire arms
Your obligated to put your life on the loke on the military
Hey! You forgot, it's also for protecting themselves! Cops LOVE protecting themselves!
They're trained to see just about everything they might encounter as a direct threat to their very life and to act with lethal force in response. You know, so that they can get home to their families!
Which reminds me: Don't forget that they're taught that the sex they have right after killing a human being is the best sex they'll ever have in their lives!
Should also be noted, they’re not exactly armed to protect *your* property. So no duty to defend and no duty to guard the private property of citizens.
One of the cops was outside the window and asked shout out if you can hear me, and the little girl shouted help im here, and this gave away her location and the killer came and shot the girl. I distinctly remember this story. anyone have the source?
[https://www.businessinsider.com/uvalde-student-shot-after-cops-told-kids-shout-help-survivor-2022-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/uvalde-student-shot-after-cops-told-kids-shout-help-survivor-2022-5)
Yes, this happened.
Final count of law enforcement that arrived, and did nothing, was over 400 at final count. According to Wiki, anyway. It makes my stomach hurt.
What’s also wild is the folks of Uvalde re-elected leaders that FAILED in the process. And supported Abbott. That’s a mystery for me.
It's human nature, unfortunately. The number of people who had kids in the school vs the number of residents that voted in a Texas town. The bias that focus on authority, status quo and team loyalty often beats logic or self interest.
You know how people always bring up, "good cops?" They say, "But there are good cops! Cops who are good people!"
Woah! There he is! The Good Cop the prophecies talked about! Over 400 police on site, and out of them, *one* actually tried to go in and do something. Albeit, it's because his own wife was inside, but we'll still give it to him. There he is. There's the good cop!
And just like we normally see, the 400 bad cops stood in the way of the good cop and fucked him over.
Honestly? Send each and every one of them a birthday card each year, for each soul lost. “Jacklyn would have been 11 today”, “Jose would have been 12”, “Eva 46”, and on and on and on.
They should feel guilt for decades of their failing. The impact their inaction had lasts a lifetime, and as such, they should be reminded of it.
“Layla would be graduating college at this age.”
Yeah actually one of the school teachers that got shot called her husband who was a cop on scene. He is seen on body camera crying and begging to go in. Says he will go first because they are waiting for a freaking tactical shield. They just pull him away.
The thing is, this only works if it goes beyond Uvalde.
Uvalde wasn't an exception but an inevitability of police culture. And the idea of putting consequences and personal responsibility into their field is enough for some of these thugs to quit and we've decided we don't want them to quit, so we won't incorporate any consequences. We need the bodies, never mind which are good and which are the fucking worst.
It's utterly insane.
>Uvalde wasn't an exception but an inevitability of police culture.
There's a lot of truth to this. When Uvalde happened, the wider policing community rallied behind defending the police response, because so much of modern US police culture is about protecting themselves instead of the community. They tried to immediately shift the blame to the teachers for somehow being at fault for holding up the response (refusing to give police a key to get into the room was the most common lie I saw being peddled), or on the media for showing the security footage "out of context". It's always someone else's fault, not theirs.
r/ProtectAndServe permabanned anyone who suggested that the police could've done a better job, even if the users were other law enforcement officers speaking from their own training and experience.
There have been some notable critical voices from within policing, but they're the minority, and mostly come from former cops who no longer have to worry about keeping their jobs. Because being too critical of your fellow cops is one of the only ways that police unions allow cops to actually lose their jobs.
She 1) escaped from police custody, 2) ran UNARMED and UNPROTECTED into the school, 3) got BOTH of her children, one of which was close enough that she could hear the shooter, 4) got an entire classroom out, and 5) got harassed by the police because she told the truth while being on probation. Also probably because she wasn't white.
She's a badass, pure and simple.
It's not just failed leadership. All law enforcement officers on scene failed and should be held accountable.
They wore their cute cowboy hats, and their donated military gear, but couldn't find the courage to save children being massacred.
If you watch the video of them cowering in the hallway, you'll see one fat donut cop in the lower left, hiding around the corner. He was so visibly frightened the entire time, that he was on the verge of panic. He stayed behind a smaller guy, and wouldn't look around the corner until the smaller guy did, and then he'd stay as hidden behind the smaller guy as much as he could, glance out, and then go back to hiding around the corner.
That guy's boss should have fired him as soon as he watched that video, but I'll bet that guy is still on the force. If I lived in that town, and saw him eating at the local diner, I'd call him a coward right to his face, in front of his family. And I would say it to him every time I saw him around town for the rest of our lives. I'd NEVER let him forget the day his repulsive cowardice allowed all those children to be murdered.
I think this situation really opened a lot of Americans eyes to what law enforcement has become in this country. If it's not picking the low hanging fruit of generating revenue off of minor traffic infractions, then it's not worth their time to deal with.
Uvalde also shows why pigs don't like being filmed. Documents how worthless/corrupt they are.
Law enforcement has always been problematic. There are folks in law enforcement that consider it their mission to help the people they serve. There are others who are just there for the power. The problem is that there's no way to tell them apart from a distance.
Its technically not "incompetence". Cops are trained that only their lives mean anything, and that its better for them to be safe than for anyone else to be. After all, they're not legally required to protect anyone.
That whole "urban warrior" horseshit training should be brought up in question more often. It's where all this tacticool fake-military dumbass behavior comes from. Instead of getting actual training, they're going to idiot camp where a bunch of stolen valor douchebags sell the line of thinking that EVERYONE'S OUT TO GET YOU COPS, IT'S US VS THEM!
It's not the whole cause of shitty policing but it damn sure doesn't help.
Actively prevented others from going in. Every single one of them should be hounded as cowards for the rest of their life, wherever they go.
They deserve no peace.
I remember school district chief Pete Arredondo had won a seat on the city counsel shortly prior to idiot boy's murder spree at the elementary school. After the anger and disgust of the abysmal handling of the shooting ol' Pete showed up to the city counsel ready to take his seat and honestly didn't expect the outrage that he received when he showed up. He clowned up protecting everyone's kids and then shows up like he did an oopsie daisy and it was on to new business. WTF.
Side note: The mayor at the time wrote something to the effect that the media were cowards for showing CCTV video from the school of what went on inside the building, not any of the slaughter, just police activity. That got me livid. Usually don't fire off angry e-mails, but I sent one to him saying that sometimes shutting the fuck up is better than opening the mouth and spouting bullshit, and that this was a perfect example of when to shut the fuck up.
Columbine. Sandy Hook. Parkland. **Nothing changed**. People and politicians care more about their fucking guns than they do **first graders** and the message is clear.
That is some Homer Simpson level shit right there. The CEO is still the CEO even if they left their computer and phone at the house. There's a hostile takeover??? No shit, how the hell was I supposed to know, I was busy playing video games.
Sad we're at this point, but maybe we need people to see the footage of the various shootings for a change instead of being so hush hush about it. Right now it is far too easy to mentally disassociate when it doesn't impact you and people just see numbers.
I mean hell, the solution right now people are floating is to have teachers (who are already underpaid) take on the role of security. I'm of the mind unless people are shown the consequences of allowing so many guns in the wild they will keep drinking the "muh rights!" kool-aid.
When there is zero accountability for police they feel zero shame. Instead of being ashamed for a monumental act of cowardice that should bear heavily on each of these losers’ heads, they got to go home thinking it was just a rough day on the job.
He's a piece of shit and the whole police department is a pack of cowardly cunts, but seriously, would you want him turning up to your kids funeral?
I think not attending is about the only decision that could be made.
How Texas of Uvalde to see their neighbors mourning, and an A-list celebrity go on TV at the whitehouse to beg for anything to be done, and all they can muster the energy for is to clean the bolt carrier group of their assault rifles and mutter "what a shame" under their breath with complete apathy and disregard. I fucking hate Texas. What a shithole.
It's because rural America is all about isolating yourself from progressive ideas. Ideas that typically espouse the benefits of community. Rural America is full of selfish assholes who don't trust their neighbors.
Yeah while the situation is terrible I have little sympathy at this point. Every election involving Abbott has been and will be a referendum on if you condemn the Uvalde response as a voter. Seems a majority of them are good with bullet riddled children as long as they don’t have to admit that they were wrong or change their politics.
Or they will spend a fortune and botch it, and he’ll walk away with an acquittal.
And the entire trial will be a circus of Republican interference and manipulation, no matter the outcome. It will be seen as tainted regardless.
How any of the “responding” officers can even show their faces around town baffles me. That the townspeople didn’t run them out of town is pretty surprising.
Shows the true color of Texas right there. All fucking talk, all 'yes sir of course sir would you like me to suck your dick after i've finished polishing your boots sit' in reality.
I hope they make the charges stick, but I'm doubtful. Yes there's a lot of case law that the police (usually) don't have an obligation to protect anyone in particular.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/
But do they have an obligation if they actively cordon the scene and prevent (physically, arrest, etc.) others from helping?
That’s a completely different question.
As early as 1856 in the _South v Maryland_, the SC ruled that police officers did not have a duty to protect an individual from harm unless they had a special relationship with that individual.
It is known as the public duty doctrine.
I’m not a lawyer but later in 1981 in _Warren v District of Columbia_ the SC court ruled “the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists”.
They need to be held responsible to their actions. If you or I fuck up doing x, and would go to jail, why do cops get to laugh off doing x?
What we see is just the natural consequence of giving power and removing responsibility
Simple insurance like doctors have and a registry would go a long way. Taxpayers pay out all lawsuits instead of the union, and getting fired means you simply move to the next town over. It's never gonna happen, but this would change this quite quickly.
It blows my mind the amount of man hours spent mindlessly on the side of the road policing minor speeding infractions. Truly a jobs program for otherwise unhirable individuals
Even if they are not legally obligated to help (which is ridiculous), they should 100% be charged with neglect or event negligent homicide because they **physically stopped others from saving the kids' lives**.
If an officer decides a situation is too risky for *them*, that doesn't give them the right to block OTHER first responders who do not deem it too risky.
Of course they'd argue they had a duty to stop others from placing themselves in harms way. But you see, you can't argue that at the same time you argue that you don't have a duty to protect people. You can't have it both ways: Either the police AND civilians are allowed to make risk calculations for themselves weighing their own lives against the lives of others OR the police are reaponsible for protecting all civilian lives. They can't opt to protect the parents from the gunmen while allowing the children to be massacred.
Children are in the care of the state so that is all out the window. Someone is responsible and since obviously teachers are not going to be charged, the police finally get their turn to face a modicum of accountability. Felony charges too, to boot. 10 year maximum per charge.
If no one were held accountable, then that would mean that in fact, schools do NOT have any authority or responsibility of care over children while under the care of the state, meaning kids can tell literally teachers and cops in school to go fuck themselves every single day and face 0 consequences because they have no actual authority over the student. They cannot both claim wild authoritarian rule over students while at school (that is what they do) while literally having no accountability for a mass murderer that was allowed to finish what he wanted to do for over an hour while some fat police chief crapped himself.
Not only that, the police actively prevented the guardians of the children from rescuing their own sons and daughters. This is beyond the pale and starts to suggest that police officers, as representatives of the state, were actively working to assist the terrorist in taking more lives. As you can see this is multiple standard deviations beyond the standard "qualified immunity" blanket response. When children die through the intentional actions of authority figures all that PC bullshit about QI flies right out the window. When children are involved, the standard playbook gets shredded and folks face the music, whether youre a rank and file cop or some fat shmuck police chief with both his own thumbs inserted firmly into his own asshole.
Not unless a special care duty was in place.
And I personally would say that instant the police prevented others from coming to the aid of the children they assumed a special care and thus are responsible for the children's safety.
Good,
Don't sign up and take an oath if you can't perform your duties. Especially if that duty is protecting fucking children from an active shooting. Absolutely disgraceful human beings in that police department.
Disgraceful humans in general, tragic loss of life because why? They cared more about themselves than children being killed, it is infuriating and pathetic.
Those indictments are the very least that should be done to those remarkably inept police officers who *completely failed* to protect the children from being slaughtered. The Uvalde PD cops showed incompetence and cowardice that defies belief.
I’ve never been so angry after hearing about the (lack of) police response during Uvalde. They absolutely FAILED those kids and teachers and their families. Hopefully this is the first of many to come and maybe we can start holding the police accountable for doing their damn jobs. I have no respect for Uvalde police.
One of the most galling things about watching that video (and there many things). Was all of them standing around with their thumbs up their butts while the shooting was still occurring and one of them casually saunters over and uses the hand sanitizer.
Uvalde really illustrated something that’s always been true, but which most people don’t realise: the police exist to enforce the law, not to protect people.
Have said this before but they had gone through training for this exact scenario. They would’ve been paid well to attend (extra time/overtime). Clearly either the training was a massive waste of tax payer money or those that attended were happy to pocket the extra money and pay no attention.
Go look up the outcome of that and you'll be really pissed off. He was found not guilty because he had no special duty to protect, he got his job back with backpay, he was hired in the next precinct over, and then he retired with a full pension.
Phillip braillsford murdered Daniel shaver in cold blood and he gets 35 k for life free . Amber guyger murdered botham jean in his apartment in cold blood and she's probably about to get paroled this September.
There should be 376 former officers--permanently stripped of badge, gun, pension, and the ability to obtain another civil service position-- currently awaiting trial for accessory to murder and criminal negligence.
In the UK. Don't know if US people know but there was a massive bomb attack in Manchester at an Ariana Grande (might have got spelling wrong of her name). concert.
An inquiry afterwards revealed how all the different emergency responders, police, fire, ambulance, were totally useless because all the leaders were risk assessing.
Inside the arena members of the public were saving lives by making tourniquets out of belts, getting people out on makeshift stretchers made from bits of concession stands and railings, and staying with and comforting the dying.
It's the paralysis of who should be our heroes by weird over analysis. It must be said that the basic pay paramedics, police and rescue people wanted to get in there and were frustrated and furious.
Different situations but similar problem.
The only time anything related to this story would belong in uplifting news would be if every single pig who was there that day suddenly burst into flames and were dragged screaming and melting into hell in exchange for the children being returned back to life.
Way to go dude, you set a whole new bar for cowardice..
Uvalde is going to be remembered like Columbine.
That's unfair to Columbine cops. At the time people assumed hostages were for demands. Uvalde and 30 years of knowing that wasn't the case.
Like u/Astramancer_ said. Columbine is the original, burned into the public consciousness; Uvalde is likewise burned in, not because it’s new, but because of the horror of the response.
I think it was more a comment about how it's actually remembered. There's a lot of school shooting between columbine today, yet if you ask a random person to list them they'll probably list Columbine, Sandy Hook, and now Uvalde.
I don't like living in a world where I can easily name 5 school shootings.
Florida's always hurts me. It's February 14th and it breaks my heart still. No relationship. Just damn.
Oh so nothing at all will change and we'll still be talking about it 30 years later
If nothing changed after Sandy Hook, you guys have no chance.
I have known this.
Hey at least you guys always work as bad example for other countries. Whenever shootings happen where police inted, there is more training in my country for police to deal with shootings. This is how we got police officers to engage active shooters within 3 minutes of receiving the call in my country. Because they were trained on Columbine data.
What’s even worse is that the cops on the scene were actively preventing people from trying to run into the building to save the kids themselves. Those unarmed parents had more balls than the cops with guns and body armor
What's even worse is they ended up harassing a parent who did rescue her kid.
Next do the dozens of officers that came in bulletproof riot gear but stood out in the hallway as the kids were texting for help for something like 40 minutes.
He's a rare case where the level of cowardice is so high, its crossed a line in to criminal, and it's the line of criminal where a US cop is being held accountable. That's a line that's so far in the distance, i don't think many people believed it existed.
There's a lot of yellow roses in Texas.
Imagine being so negligent that people will know your name over the actual shooter's.
There has to be some kind of accountability for this incredible failure of leadership. Their collective incompetence is a direct result of failed leadership. I still can't believe the abject cowardice we saw that day. Not even one of them said fuck this I'm going in.
The PARENTS were jumping the fence to go break in and tactically retrieve their kids. Other parents were held, more or less at gunpoint, preventing them from doing so. This town has millions in funding for a local PD and a school district PD. They did active shooter drills in full gear in that school less than a year before. Then they just did *FUCKING NOTHING* while a psychopath was on a spree for *AN HOUR*! This man needs to be made an example of. The Nashville school shooting should be the textbook response. If you're a first responder and are unwilling to put your life before the lives of innocents, find another career.
Parents learned from this however. Next time they won’t be held at gunpoint because they’ll know it’s a death sentence for their kids.
If there's another school shooting in uvalde I'm predicting a lot of dead cops because of that.
Nah they will not even leave the station just watch the news and then try to take credit for the lives they "saved".
That's a good point. When cops are called out on doing a bad job they just stop doing their job all together. It happened in Minneapolis after George Floyd. "If we can't kill with impunity, what's the point?"
>I'm predicting a lot of dead cops because of that. IM NOT!!!! If Uvalde didn't get people mobbing the cops then I predict NOTHING will make that happen. It's all talk.
yup! i figured after uvalde we would get a new governor but nope! same old shit!!!
Yep. If my kid is in a school where I'm hearing shots popping off and a cop is willing to shoot me to prevent me from going in because they're too cowardly to do so, then I guess I'll be dying with a back full of bullet holes.
[удалено]
I don't own a gun, and you'd have to shoot me to stop me from going into the school if my daughter was in there. This isn't a gun ownership issue, it's a cowardice issue.
There should probably be a new word to describe the utterly heinous level of cowardice displayed that day. Cowardice that caused that much unimaginable pain to so many innocent babies and all their families who survive them is a whole other universe of “cowardice”.
The fact that there realistically might be a "next time" is seriously messed up to think about.
There's no 'might' about it. There were 12 more shootings with fatalities in the second half of that year alone. This will happen again.
I told my daughter if something pops off at school get out of the building through a window or exit and take your chances outside. Shelter in place is for the kids without a plan. Don’t roam the halls looking for a way out, where ever you are, there is likely a window. That’s your exit.
Every cop there should be charged with accessories to the murders that happened while guarding the killer. If you or I sat outside and stopped people at gunpoint from saving people while a killer was massacring we would be charged, they should have the same
If you stood by as a nurse or doctor while those in your charge died before your eyes, you’d be thrown out of the profession, shunned, criminally charged, and personally sued into oblivion.
Can you imagine doctors blocking the OR because the director didn't give an OK to go in?
or firefighters hanging out on the sidewalk and tackling you for trying to spray a garden hose on your burning house
What we need to do is end qualified immunity. That was just another day for them.
Yup 100%. We are responsible for people’s lives just like they are. It is insane they aren’t required to do their job.
This. As a nurse I don't get a free pass with violent patients that are deteriorating. Reminds me of that tweet about Wendy's workers being better at de-escelating because they get fired if they don't. Meanwhile these cunts had bullet proof vests, ARs and 300plus of them.
It’s insane to think that these men had the mentality of self preservation over putting their lives on the line to protect *children.*
They put their lives on the line for state property
Cops are trained that their primary objective is to make it home to their families alive at the end of the day. These cowards all made it home alive, so for them, all went according to training, and it was a good day.
May they never find peace again.
>If you're a first responder and are unwilling to put your life before the lives of innocents, find another career. Period. The reason FR get my unquestionable respect is because I presume this is how they feel.
you know the supreme court has already opined that police are not responsible for protecting anyone, saving anyone, etc. Gonna go a little political here but it needs to be stated. The true purpose of any police force in America is to protect the rich and their property...
376 law enforcement officers “responded” to the scene. Fucking cowards, all of them.
Cowards don't show up only to stop others from helping. This is much worse than cowards
i honestly believe that all officers there, from any agency, especially any that prevented action by others, should be on trial for criminally negligent homicide.
Accomplices. They are accomplices to the murder of 21 people. Had they just passively stood around it would be negligent homicide, but when they *actively* prevented others they became accomplices. They should be facing the maximum sentence that Texas has for being accomplices to the murder of 21 people.
Wouldn't stand up. The police have no legal obligation to protect you. You'd have to get the Supreme Court to take a look at Castle Rock vs Gonzalez, at the very least.
This discussion has nothing to do with "no obligation to protect." It's about the Uvalde police prolonging a murder spree by actively stopping parents and other law enforcement agencies who tried to save their children. It's not about the actions Uvalde police failed to do. It's about the actions they took: to protect an active shooter on a murder spree of children.
I don't know why this nonsense keeps coming up in these Ulvade threads. It is an absurd talking point that has nothing to do with anything. These cops prevented non cops from taking action and it cost the lives of at least a few of the victims.
I can understand not being obligated to protect others. I hate it, it feels completely counter to the purpose of law enforcement, but that's the law as it is today. It's stopping civilians from defending helpless people that fills me with rage. [Defense of others](https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/criminal-defense/defense-strategies/defense-of-others#:~:text=Texas%20law%2C%20as%20defined%20in,use%20of%20unlawful%20force%3B%20and) who are in imminent danger is legal in Texas, so what grounds do those officers have for blocking the parents from defending their own children?
But it is insane that they don't. That is the entire fundamental point of them having fire arms Your obligated to put your life on the loke on the military
The fundamental reason they are armed is to protect property. Gross isn’t it?
Hey! You forgot, it's also for protecting themselves! Cops LOVE protecting themselves! They're trained to see just about everything they might encounter as a direct threat to their very life and to act with lethal force in response. You know, so that they can get home to their families! Which reminds me: Don't forget that they're taught that the sex they have right after killing a human being is the best sex they'll ever have in their lives!
Should also be noted, they’re not exactly armed to protect *your* property. So no duty to defend and no duty to guard the private property of citizens.
*monkeys paw curls* Congrats! Police will now protect people, __because people are now property. Again.__
There's got to be a legal term for this. Verges on aiding and abetting.
Accessory to murder
One of the cops was outside the window and asked shout out if you can hear me, and the little girl shouted help im here, and this gave away her location and the killer came and shot the girl. I distinctly remember this story. anyone have the source?
[https://www.businessinsider.com/uvalde-student-shot-after-cops-told-kids-shout-help-survivor-2022-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/uvalde-student-shot-after-cops-told-kids-shout-help-survivor-2022-5) Yes, this happened.
Obstruction of justice
Malicious neglect of duty.
“Forbearance” comes close
Final count of law enforcement that arrived, and did nothing, was over 400 at final count. According to Wiki, anyway. It makes my stomach hurt. What’s also wild is the folks of Uvalde re-elected leaders that FAILED in the process. And supported Abbott. That’s a mystery for me.
They're the battered wife covering for their husband.
It's human nature, unfortunately. The number of people who had kids in the school vs the number of residents that voted in a Texas town. The bias that focus on authority, status quo and team loyalty often beats logic or self interest.
How many names were in the ballet? If the incumbent was the only name he could have got ten votes and still won if nobody organized against him.
It should be a wake up call. Cops aren’t what they say they are.
And waited 90 mins to go in, directly against their training, and NO police officers were injured.
Minus the one who was trying like hell to get in and was held back. His wife was one of the teachers who died that day.
You know how people always bring up, "good cops?" They say, "But there are good cops! Cops who are good people!" Woah! There he is! The Good Cop the prophecies talked about! Over 400 police on site, and out of them, *one* actually tried to go in and do something. Albeit, it's because his own wife was inside, but we'll still give it to him. There he is. There's the good cop! And just like we normally see, the 400 bad cops stood in the way of the good cop and fucked him over.
I’m sure all 376 got paid for their hours
It's called group think. It's important to think for yourself and not rely on others to think for you.
Honestly? Send each and every one of them a birthday card each year, for each soul lost. “Jacklyn would have been 11 today”, “Jose would have been 12”, “Eva 46”, and on and on and on. They should feel guilt for decades of their failing. The impact their inaction had lasts a lifetime, and as such, they should be reminded of it. “Layla would be graduating college at this age.”
Yeah actually one of the school teachers that got shot called her husband who was a cop on scene. He is seen on body camera crying and begging to go in. Says he will go first because they are waiting for a freaking tactical shield. They just pull him away.
Letting the cop who isn’t a coward go in would make all the cowardly cops look bad.
It made them look even worse by not letting him in.
I would actually become Chris Dorner if my loved one died while my coworkers sat around.
Kind of surprised we don't see more of them.
The thing is, this only works if it goes beyond Uvalde. Uvalde wasn't an exception but an inevitability of police culture. And the idea of putting consequences and personal responsibility into their field is enough for some of these thugs to quit and we've decided we don't want them to quit, so we won't incorporate any consequences. We need the bodies, never mind which are good and which are the fucking worst. It's utterly insane.
>Uvalde wasn't an exception but an inevitability of police culture. There's a lot of truth to this. When Uvalde happened, the wider policing community rallied behind defending the police response, because so much of modern US police culture is about protecting themselves instead of the community. They tried to immediately shift the blame to the teachers for somehow being at fault for holding up the response (refusing to give police a key to get into the room was the most common lie I saw being peddled), or on the media for showing the security footage "out of context". It's always someone else's fault, not theirs. r/ProtectAndServe permabanned anyone who suggested that the police could've done a better job, even if the users were other law enforcement officers speaking from their own training and experience. There have been some notable critical voices from within policing, but they're the minority, and mostly come from former cops who no longer have to worry about keeping their jobs. Because being too critical of your fellow cops is one of the only ways that police unions allow cops to actually lose their jobs.
Forget a shield. Get your ass in there. Do your job. You wanted a tin badge on your chest. Go earn it
Doorkickers in actual war zones don't even bother with shields, and they are going up against actually armed enemies.
Yet the one unarmed mom went in and cleared a whole classroom.
And if I’m not mistaken the Uvalde cops harassed her because of it. Because she revealed their cowardice to the world.
Is she the one from the news interview that they tried to stop?
Yes, and they threatened her with probation violation for going on TV
She did WHAT?!
She 1) escaped from police custody, 2) ran UNARMED and UNPROTECTED into the school, 3) got BOTH of her children, one of which was close enough that she could hear the shooter, 4) got an entire classroom out, and 5) got harassed by the police because she told the truth while being on probation. Also probably because she wasn't white. She's a badass, pure and simple.
She's my hero, what's her name?
Angeli Gómez
Thank you. What a hero.
If you have time, watch some of her interviews in which she describes what happened. Both heartbreaking and infuriating.
Bravest person in town.
She annoyed the police and disregarded orders. In most jurisdictions that’s an execution. She should be happy getting 20 years in prison/s
And what’s worse, they stopped the parents going in to try to save their own children!!!
It's not just failed leadership. All law enforcement officers on scene failed and should be held accountable. They wore their cute cowboy hats, and their donated military gear, but couldn't find the courage to save children being massacred.
If you watch the video of them cowering in the hallway, you'll see one fat donut cop in the lower left, hiding around the corner. He was so visibly frightened the entire time, that he was on the verge of panic. He stayed behind a smaller guy, and wouldn't look around the corner until the smaller guy did, and then he'd stay as hidden behind the smaller guy as much as he could, glance out, and then go back to hiding around the corner. That guy's boss should have fired him as soon as he watched that video, but I'll bet that guy is still on the force. If I lived in that town, and saw him eating at the local diner, I'd call him a coward right to his face, in front of his family. And I would say it to him every time I saw him around town for the rest of our lives. I'd NEVER let him forget the day his repulsive cowardice allowed all those children to be murdered.
I think this situation really opened a lot of Americans eyes to what law enforcement has become in this country. If it's not picking the low hanging fruit of generating revenue off of minor traffic infractions, then it's not worth their time to deal with. Uvalde also shows why pigs don't like being filmed. Documents how worthless/corrupt they are.
Law enforcement has always been problematic. There are folks in law enforcement that consider it their mission to help the people they serve. There are others who are just there for the power. The problem is that there's no way to tell them apart from a distance.
“has become” It opened a lot of eyes to what the police as an institution always has been.
Another example of how police have become increasingly useless and more costly at the same time.
Some parents tried. The police stopped them
Its technically not "incompetence". Cops are trained that only their lives mean anything, and that its better for them to be safe than for anyone else to be. After all, they're not legally required to protect anyone.
That whole "urban warrior" horseshit training should be brought up in question more often. It's where all this tacticool fake-military dumbass behavior comes from. Instead of getting actual training, they're going to idiot camp where a bunch of stolen valor douchebags sell the line of thinking that EVERYONE'S OUT TO GET YOU COPS, IT'S US VS THEM! It's not the whole cause of shitty policing but it damn sure doesn't help.
Actively prevented others from going in. Every single one of them should be hounded as cowards for the rest of their life, wherever they go. They deserve no peace.
I remember school district chief Pete Arredondo had won a seat on the city counsel shortly prior to idiot boy's murder spree at the elementary school. After the anger and disgust of the abysmal handling of the shooting ol' Pete showed up to the city counsel ready to take his seat and honestly didn't expect the outrage that he received when he showed up. He clowned up protecting everyone's kids and then shows up like he did an oopsie daisy and it was on to new business. WTF. Side note: The mayor at the time wrote something to the effect that the media were cowards for showing CCTV video from the school of what went on inside the building, not any of the slaughter, just police activity. That got me livid. Usually don't fire off angry e-mails, but I sent one to him saying that sometimes shutting the fuck up is better than opening the mouth and spouting bullshit, and that this was a perfect example of when to shut the fuck up.
Politicians should have to view that footage. They should’ve be able to avoid what happened when they vote on laws keeping stuff like this happening.
“The sound of children screaming has been removed.”
Dude, January 6th happened and nothing's changed.
Columbine. Sandy Hook. Parkland. **Nothing changed**. People and politicians care more about their fucking guns than they do **first graders** and the message is clear.
Yeah but remember, he “didn’t consider himself the incident commander” so it’s not his fault, right? After all he “forgot” his radio…
That is some Homer Simpson level shit right there. The CEO is still the CEO even if they left their computer and phone at the house. There's a hostile takeover??? No shit, how the hell was I supposed to know, I was busy playing video games.
Wants all the benefits with none of the responsibility.
Sad we're at this point, but maybe we need people to see the footage of the various shootings for a change instead of being so hush hush about it. Right now it is far too easy to mentally disassociate when it doesn't impact you and people just see numbers. I mean hell, the solution right now people are floating is to have teachers (who are already underpaid) take on the role of security. I'm of the mind unless people are shown the consequences of allowing so many guns in the wild they will keep drinking the "muh rights!" kool-aid.
When there is zero accountability for police they feel zero shame. Instead of being ashamed for a monumental act of cowardice that should bear heavily on each of these losers’ heads, they got to go home thinking it was just a rough day on the job.
The state will spend a fortune prosecuting him and then King Abbott will wave his magic wand and pardon him.
The voters of Uvalde chose Abbott again after the shooting so its what they want.
[удалено]
Hey man, "Wheelie" is insensitive. It's Greg "Whiny Piss Baby" Abbott.
That's uncalled for, and I'm positive he will not stand for that kind of hurtful speech.
He's a piece of shit and the whole police department is a pack of cowardly cunts, but seriously, would you want him turning up to your kids funeral? I think not attending is about the only decision that could be made.
How Texas of Uvalde to see their neighbors mourning, and an A-list celebrity go on TV at the whitehouse to beg for anything to be done, and all they can muster the energy for is to clean the bolt carrier group of their assault rifles and mutter "what a shame" under their breath with complete apathy and disregard. I fucking hate Texas. What a shithole.
It's rural Texas. They proved they're morally bankrupt. "Rural America" in general is. "Small town community" is a total and utter lie.
Unfortunately it is also suburban America too. My parents voted for abbot as well
It's because rural America is all about isolating yourself from progressive ideas. Ideas that typically espouse the benefits of community. Rural America is full of selfish assholes who don't trust their neighbors.
Yeah while the situation is terrible I have little sympathy at this point. Every election involving Abbott has been and will be a referendum on if you condemn the Uvalde response as a voter. Seems a majority of them are good with bullet riddled children as long as they don’t have to admit that they were wrong or change their politics.
Or they will spend a fortune and botch it, and he’ll walk away with an acquittal. And the entire trial will be a circus of Republican interference and manipulation, no matter the outcome. It will be seen as tainted regardless.
I wish you weren't right about this.
Hasnt the supreme court already ruled previously that cops have no duty to protect citizens? which is a fuckin farce
Yep. Doctors, nurses, and teachers have a greater punishment for dereliction of duty, and they don't even have body armor or guns. Fucking COWARDS.
The first people society should hold to account for THEIR action (or inactions) are the very ones we task to hold society account for OUR actions.
And they just so happen to be the ones often immune to accountability.
Good now charge the rest of the cowards. Lots of cops standing around doing nothing while children were being shot up and dying.
Even worse, they were stopping the parents that were trying to go in and save their kids. They should all be locked up.
The article states the parents are suing everyone and everything. Good.
How any of the “responding” officers can even show their faces around town baffles me. That the townspeople didn’t run them out of town is pretty surprising.
Most of them came from surrounding areas, Uvalde only has 40~ cops and maybe half of them actually live in Uvalde.
Shows the true color of Texas right there. All fucking talk, all 'yes sir of course sir would you like me to suck your dick after i've finished polishing your boots sit' in reality.
Didn't the Supreme Court already rule that police are not legally obligated to help?
I hope they make the charges stick, but I'm doubtful. Yes there's a lot of case law that the police (usually) don't have an obligation to protect anyone in particular. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/
The good news is the Supreme Court doesn't give a fuck about precedent. The bad news is the Supreme Court.
They unfortunately do (when it’s convenient for them only).
But do they have an obligation if they actively cordon the scene and prevent (physically, arrest, etc.) others from helping? That’s a completely different question.
The charges are abandoning and endangering a child. New charges crop up if you don't help a child, even if you're a cop, I'm assuming.
I seem to recall that Uvalde police didn't merely *not respond*; they showed up and *actively obstructed* rescuers, including parents.
I can't imagine HELPING a killer murder innocent children for an hour. I hope those cops never sleep a single night again.
As early as 1856 in the _South v Maryland_, the SC ruled that police officers did not have a duty to protect an individual from harm unless they had a special relationship with that individual. It is known as the public duty doctrine. I’m not a lawyer but later in 1981 in _Warren v District of Columbia_ the SC court ruled “the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists”.
They shouldn’t also get legal protections, then
This, if you're not expected to protect people from harm, then no qualified immunity.
maybe it being a public school puts them in the state's care and thus the police have a special relationship with them while in the school
Especially since Texas has fucking school district police
Cops are paid a premium to risk their lives. Guess it's time to start paying them minimum wage if they aren't obligated to protect and serve.
Policing in America needs to be reimagined. What we have right now is not working for anyone except police officers.
They need to be held responsible to their actions. If you or I fuck up doing x, and would go to jail, why do cops get to laugh off doing x? What we see is just the natural consequence of giving power and removing responsibility
Simple insurance like doctors have and a registry would go a long way. Taxpayers pay out all lawsuits instead of the union, and getting fired means you simply move to the next town over. It's never gonna happen, but this would change this quite quickly.
It blows my mind the amount of man hours spent mindlessly on the side of the road policing minor speeding infractions. Truly a jobs program for otherwise unhirable individuals
Absent a special relationship. It can be argued that the school police have a special relationship to the school children.
Even if they are not legally obligated to help (which is ridiculous), they should 100% be charged with neglect or event negligent homicide because they **physically stopped others from saving the kids' lives**. If an officer decides a situation is too risky for *them*, that doesn't give them the right to block OTHER first responders who do not deem it too risky. Of course they'd argue they had a duty to stop others from placing themselves in harms way. But you see, you can't argue that at the same time you argue that you don't have a duty to protect people. You can't have it both ways: Either the police AND civilians are allowed to make risk calculations for themselves weighing their own lives against the lives of others OR the police are reaponsible for protecting all civilian lives. They can't opt to protect the parents from the gunmen while allowing the children to be massacred.
Children are in the care of the state so that is all out the window. Someone is responsible and since obviously teachers are not going to be charged, the police finally get their turn to face a modicum of accountability. Felony charges too, to boot. 10 year maximum per charge. If no one were held accountable, then that would mean that in fact, schools do NOT have any authority or responsibility of care over children while under the care of the state, meaning kids can tell literally teachers and cops in school to go fuck themselves every single day and face 0 consequences because they have no actual authority over the student. They cannot both claim wild authoritarian rule over students while at school (that is what they do) while literally having no accountability for a mass murderer that was allowed to finish what he wanted to do for over an hour while some fat police chief crapped himself. Not only that, the police actively prevented the guardians of the children from rescuing their own sons and daughters. This is beyond the pale and starts to suggest that police officers, as representatives of the state, were actively working to assist the terrorist in taking more lives. As you can see this is multiple standard deviations beyond the standard "qualified immunity" blanket response. When children die through the intentional actions of authority figures all that PC bullshit about QI flies right out the window. When children are involved, the standard playbook gets shredded and folks face the music, whether youre a rank and file cop or some fat shmuck police chief with both his own thumbs inserted firmly into his own asshole.
Not unless a special care duty was in place. And I personally would say that instant the police prevented others from coming to the aid of the children they assumed a special care and thus are responsible for the children's safety.
Good, Don't sign up and take an oath if you can't perform your duties. Especially if that duty is protecting fucking children from an active shooting. Absolutely disgraceful human beings in that police department.
Disgraceful humans in general, tragic loss of life because why? They cared more about themselves than children being killed, it is infuriating and pathetic.
Especially when you've just trained for this exact situation in that exact location
First responders deserve our respect because they run towards the danger....when they don't like in Uvalde that respect goes out the window.
Look, they only had 376 good guys with guns. If they had 377 it would have been an entirely different outcome.
Just needed a teacher with a gun to lead the charge
Not only did they not respond but they prevented parents from going in to save their children. Fucking apalling shit.
A man so yellow he’s got a job in the Simpsons.
Chief Wiggum wouldn't have fucked this up so badly
Chief Wiggum might actually be is less yellow.
Fuck those cops that sat outside while those kids died. I'd say I hope they're haunted by it, but I know they haven't missed a nights sleep over it.
Good. How these fucks have walked free with 0 accountability for this long is baffling
Those indictments are the very least that should be done to those remarkably inept police officers who *completely failed* to protect the children from being slaughtered. The Uvalde PD cops showed incompetence and cowardice that defies belief.
I’ve never been so angry after hearing about the (lack of) police response during Uvalde. They absolutely FAILED those kids and teachers and their families. Hopefully this is the first of many to come and maybe we can start holding the police accountable for doing their damn jobs. I have no respect for Uvalde police.
One of the most galling things about watching that video (and there many things). Was all of them standing around with their thumbs up their butts while the shooting was still occurring and one of them casually saunters over and uses the hand sanitizer.
How about the part where they stopped parents from going in? Makes my blood fucking boil.
Uvalde really illustrated something that’s always been true, but which most people don’t realise: the police exist to enforce the law, not to protect people.
Have said this before but they had gone through training for this exact scenario. They would’ve been paid well to attend (extra time/overtime). Clearly either the training was a massive waste of tax payer money or those that attended were happy to pocket the extra money and pay no attention.
The officer that worked on campus of the big Florida school shooting was charged with crimes, so not first ever criminal charge for failure to respond
Go look up the outcome of that and you'll be really pissed off. He was found not guilty because he had no special duty to protect, he got his job back with backpay, he was hired in the next precinct over, and then he retired with a full pension.
Phillip braillsford murdered Daniel shaver in cold blood and he gets 35 k for life free . Amber guyger murdered botham jean in his apartment in cold blood and she's probably about to get paroled this September.
I would bet a million dollars he won’t face any consequences.
Those cowards took the job cause they want to bully others, not save them.
There should be 376 former officers--permanently stripped of badge, gun, pension, and the ability to obtain another civil service position-- currently awaiting trial for accessory to murder and criminal negligence.
In the UK. Don't know if US people know but there was a massive bomb attack in Manchester at an Ariana Grande (might have got spelling wrong of her name). concert. An inquiry afterwards revealed how all the different emergency responders, police, fire, ambulance, were totally useless because all the leaders were risk assessing. Inside the arena members of the public were saving lives by making tourniquets out of belts, getting people out on makeshift stretchers made from bits of concession stands and railings, and staying with and comforting the dying. It's the paralysis of who should be our heroes by weird over analysis. It must be said that the basic pay paramedics, police and rescue people wanted to get in there and were frustrated and furious. Different situations but similar problem.
Uvalde police were cowards that day. In my opinion their actions lead to deaths of innocent people. They should pay.
Follow that trail of incompetence as far as it goes, wherever it takes you!!
There were over three hundred of them. Why aren't they getting charged?
I need a blue lives matter apologist to make that case why this shouldn't happen.
Worthless pigs, every single one of them.
This is better suited in /r/upliftingnews.
The only time anything related to this story would belong in uplifting news would be if every single pig who was there that day suddenly burst into flames and were dragged screaming and melting into hell in exchange for the children being returned back to life.
[children screams were removed from the recording]
One of the first thing this guy did was throw his radio away so he couldn’t listen or communicate. Absolutely unbelievable.
Good. Fucking spineless pos.
He wasn't the only coward that failed. Bullshit to only charge one.