Keenan Allen seems to fit this mold. He’s pretty slow by receiver standards, isn’t really a 50/50 ball athlete, but his route running is top notch and he’s crafty at gaining separation.
That would’ve hurt seeing maybe the most underrated receiver in the NFL, currently, playing for the Vikings especially when Cousins was traded there. I’m also glad Cousins isn’t there anymore. Another kind of underrated player who’s actually pretty damn god
I think better examples are Anquan Boldin and Jerry Rice…both ran 4.7s. For perspective, Chase Daniel, the career backup QB, put up almost the same 40 and shuttle times as both of them.
Boldin was my first thought. That 4.7 forty dropped into the second round and then had like 10 catches and 200 yards in his first game
[Fun fact- he also had a rocket for an arm](https://youtu.be/_zFcwoigip0?si=C9NNYk4ZYvWvfbsp)
Jerry Rice is the biggest example of having a different football speed
How the fuck does Rome Odunze have a similar style to Keenan Allen? Rome was a deep ball receiver in college. Fast and big with penix throwing piss missiles to him down field. I’m praying to every imaginable god that the bears crash and burn this season (flus fired new coach in for rookie qb after year 1 the cycle repeats)
No one likes him and it was probably exacerbated by a complete lack of training but Vontaze Burfict finished last in the 40 with a 5.09, last in the broad jump, and second to last in the vertical leap.
[His RAS was legitimately a 0.2](https://ras.football/2020/01/23/vontaze-burfict-ras/?amp)
That's so weird, he wasn't great but he was Def better than John Ross. I remember him making some big preseason plays a few years ago, i thought he would be solid
Sometimes you see a 6 in RAS and you are like maybe they can overcome their athletic deficiencies, but Landry literally had a 0 RAS. Dude bombed testing, but was a good football player.
Jarvis Landry was an under 6ft WR who ran a 4.77s 40 yard dash (bottom 22% of all Combine WRs), 1.65 10-yard dash (bottom 3%), a 28.5 inch vertical (bottom 1%), a 110" broad jump (bottom 2%), 7.55s 3-cone (bottom 1%), and 4.57s SS (bottom 2%).
Landry has a 0.32 RAS.
Still a 5x Pro Bowler and led NFL in receptions in 2017. Currently has a 9 year career but just got invited to try out with Jacksonville.
Another one is Terrell Suggs while not as bad as Landry still bottom 50% in most athletic testing numbers for DE/EDGE. Short arms and small hands.
He was DROY(2003), DPOY (2011), 2x All-Pro and 7x Pro Bowler.
Though I'd argue his poor testing was more not taking predraft training seriously rather than him being a terrible athlete.
Unironically, Antonio Brown. His RAS score [is mediocre at best](https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=8792&p2=20956&pos=), but per [PFRs Hall of Fame Monitor](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm) he has the stats of a hall of fame receiver. The only receivers above him not in the hall are Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, Julio Jones, and Torry Holt (and Julio/Larry will be first ballot). No one else at his level comes close to being as poorly graded physically compared to even the NFL average traits.
The GOAT football player (sorry Brady).
No other player scored that high in any position or separated himself that much from the next highest. He more than doubled the 2nd best (Moss).
Interesting point.
Rice though had crazy stamina. I’m pretty sure much of his achievement came because he’d be sprinting in the second half while everyone else was gassed. I’d like to see his second-half stats compared to first half and how that matches up with his peers.
It’s not like they’re the only great QBs ever. Countless WRs had shots with some awesome QBs.
Also, bringing up Jerry is how people knock down Joe and Steve so it goes both ways.
A lot of that is size related for AB and that wasn’t such a big deal as offenses became more spread oriented. His 40/shuttle times were pretty spot on with Ochocincos. Feel like AB could have easily run better than the 4.55 recorded as well. Not everyone spends weeks training to do their absolute best at the combine.
A lot of veteran WRs and CBs end up still doing decent based on reading the opposition pre-snap and figuring out the right place to be at the right time. Granted, usually the veterans still on teams were guys who were stars in their prime.
Seahawks' WR Steve Largent wasn't very physically gifted by most measures, but he could change directions in a hurry. He attributed it to "thick ankles".
His athleticism wasn't really measurable. I consider balance and body control athleticism, but his ability to slide through holes, shift balance to evade tackles, and get into positions of leverage while pushing through defenders was very good, but not something that could be tested.
He was a natural runner with the ball in ways faster, more agile, and more explosive RBs simply weren't. That's athleticism to me.
But yeah, his measurables sucked.
Cooper Kupp is probably the best answer. Marginal athlete that graded poorly at his combine. Was expected to be an average starter at best, but has certainly dominated to the tune of record stats and at 1 time was the highest paid receiver in the league.
I mean his 3 cone and short shuttle were still in top 20% of all WR who have participated at the Combine. When you watch his 40 he isn't clean at all in his 3 point stance start. A lot of side to side movement.
Dude was definitely more athletic than his 40 time but just is faster running from upright start than in a 3 point.
Knew that about Puka, didn’t know that about Kupp. A lot of draft heads were saying the same stuff about Keon Coleman’s slow testing but fastest gauntlet drill. Will be interesting to see how he does in this mold of slow tester, fast player
It depends on what aspect of athleticism you look at. Some of the greatest linebackers couldn't run, and some of the greatest cornerbacks couldn't deadlift.
I also want to say Bobby Wagner. He is very slow, especially laterally, and isn't especially strong for a linebacker playing in a 3-4 defense.
10x all pro, 9x pro bowl says everything you need to know about how succesful he is.
Jason Witten I feel like wasn’t ever the most athletic but made up for it in several other ways
Edit: I just remember him being slow as fuck though, so maybe I’m wrong
He threw for 1800 and ran for 1300 his senior year. He was appointment viewing for those mac games due to his athleticism. Had the fastest short shuttle of the year he was drafted . He was drafted solely for being an athlete they hoped to find a position
I dont think Richard Sherman was super athletic relative to how well he played. Sure everyone in the NFL tends to be athletic compared to a regular person... but sherman used his brains and craftiness a lot..
I think it depends on how people define athleticism.
For example, Keenan Allen isn’t super fast or have a crazy vertical but his agility, acceleration/explosiveness, and change of direction is almost unmatched. Many mic’ed up segments have had DBs talking to him about how crazy it is that he can cut or change direction with zero change in speed. To me, he’s very athletic, but many would say he’s not because of the lack of speed and jumping which is all a lot of people look at for athleticism.
Few players come to mind:
Pepper Johnson Giants MLB, as he aged, was thought to be too slow. Giants kept trying to replace him, but his football IQ meant he was always where he needed to be.
Sam Mills, Saints MLB was small enough that teams wouldn't even give him a shot. HC Mora brought Sam with him to the NFL. Again, elite football IQ allowed him to always be where he needed to be.
Marquis Colston, Saints WR, was thought to be too slow for WR and too small for TE. His route running and first step separation allowed him to be a day one impact player.
Travis Kelce? Dude ain't strong for a TE, definitely ain't fast by any means as well, but built his entire career solely off game IQ and in-play route adjustments.
He's making a strong case for GOAT TE despite not being as physically gifted as other GOAT TE candidates like Gronk or uncle Shannon.
RAS is measured at the combine right? Not an accurate assessment of how they play on the field and/or how they have played throughout their careers.
I mean, can you really say Kelce hits as hard or runs as fast as Gronk (or Sharpe)?
Correct that RAS is measured at combine. But if we're talking about being physically gifted, that's what the RAS score is designed to reflect.
Runs as fast? Yes. Kelce had a slightly better 40 time, and Kelce has taken screens 80 yards for touchdowns. Late-career Kelce relies more on IQ than before, but he is/was an exceptional athlete
He has an 80 yard touchdown in his career. He was definitely at least as fast as Gronk
Also what does this even mean? The dude is like 35, obviously he isn’t gonna have the same athleticism he had at the combine 11 years ago
No data to back this up but I feel like Julian Edelman is the perfect answer to the question. College QB turned NFL WR and is one of the most productive skill position players in post season history. Was forced to play in the slot because he was absolutely useless outside the numbers.
He wasn't useless outside the numbers, and he also wasn't pure slot, he was hybrid and lined up at x and z at times.
Also idk if he really fits anyway? Does athletic only mean straight line speed? Because he was crazy agile and also ran with a lot of power for his size. When he broke tackles, sometimes it was by changing direction and sometimes it was by running straight through a guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2hgJoCbshk
99% of these highlights with him on offense are him in the slot or inside the numbers doing excellent routes and reads to get open . "Sneaky athletic" is literally a synonym for white and unathletic lmao.
Keenan Allen seems to fit this mold. He’s pretty slow by receiver standards, isn’t really a 50/50 ball athlete, but his route running is top notch and he’s crafty at gaining separation.
I wanted the Vikes to take him over Cordarelle Patterson
I love Cordarelle. Soon I’ll love Keenan. The circle of life, or something.
That would’ve hurt seeing maybe the most underrated receiver in the NFL, currently, playing for the Vikings especially when Cousins was traded there. I’m also glad Cousins isn’t there anymore. Another kind of underrated player who’s actually pretty damn god
I think better examples are Anquan Boldin and Jerry Rice…both ran 4.7s. For perspective, Chase Daniel, the career backup QB, put up almost the same 40 and shuttle times as both of them.
Boldin was my first thought. That 4.7 forty dropped into the second round and then had like 10 catches and 200 yards in his first game [Fun fact- he also had a rocket for an arm](https://youtu.be/_zFcwoigip0?si=C9NNYk4ZYvWvfbsp) Jerry Rice is the biggest example of having a different football speed
Don’t think he’s that slow…no official 40 time but doesn’t look plodding on the field at all.
And now he can teach a rookie with a similar style that IS athletic. Imagine Kennan Allen's brain in Rome Odunze's body *chef's kiss
Nah, you didn’t watch Rome play much I can see
How the fuck does Rome Odunze have a similar style to Keenan Allen? Rome was a deep ball receiver in college. Fast and big with penix throwing piss missiles to him down field. I’m praying to every imaginable god that the bears crash and burn this season (flus fired new coach in for rookie qb after year 1 the cycle repeats)
Lol you look funny now
He already imparted all his knowledge into Quentin Johnson last year.
No one likes him and it was probably exacerbated by a complete lack of training but Vontaze Burfict finished last in the 40 with a 5.09, last in the broad jump, and second to last in the vertical leap. [His RAS was legitimately a 0.2](https://ras.football/2020/01/23/vontaze-burfict-ras/?amp)
Wow, that's insane. Some players just play a lot more athletic than they test
[удалено]
Quez Watkins. Ironically, we brought in Jon Ross for a workout to replace him.
That's so weird, he wasn't great but he was Def better than John Ross. I remember him making some big preseason plays a few years ago, i thought he would be solid
True but IIRC he isn’t THAT un-athletic, he just had a disaster pre draft process
unless he was on the steelers then they and talking heads would love him
Nobody wanted that dude on their team lol even some Bengals fans
Rent free
Maybe not dominated but have you ever seen Jarvis Landry's combine numbers?
Sometimes you see a 6 in RAS and you are like maybe they can overcome their athletic deficiencies, but Landry literally had a 0 RAS. Dude bombed testing, but was a good football player.
Priest Holmes. 5'9, 210lbs and ran a 4.73 40(!) and didn't breakout until he was 28-29 years old.
Only 1 name comes to mind BOBBY BOUCHER
Jarvis Landry was an under 6ft WR who ran a 4.77s 40 yard dash (bottom 22% of all Combine WRs), 1.65 10-yard dash (bottom 3%), a 28.5 inch vertical (bottom 1%), a 110" broad jump (bottom 2%), 7.55s 3-cone (bottom 1%), and 4.57s SS (bottom 2%). Landry has a 0.32 RAS. Still a 5x Pro Bowler and led NFL in receptions in 2017. Currently has a 9 year career but just got invited to try out with Jacksonville.
Another one is Terrell Suggs while not as bad as Landry still bottom 50% in most athletic testing numbers for DE/EDGE. Short arms and small hands. He was DROY(2003), DPOY (2011), 2x All-Pro and 7x Pro Bowler. Though I'd argue his poor testing was more not taking predraft training seriously rather than him being a terrible athlete.
Also Chiefs legend and super bowl winner, Terrel Suggs
Unironically, Antonio Brown. His RAS score [is mediocre at best](https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=8792&p2=20956&pos=), but per [PFRs Hall of Fame Monitor](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm) he has the stats of a hall of fame receiver. The only receivers above him not in the hall are Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, Julio Jones, and Torry Holt (and Julio/Larry will be first ballot). No one else at his level comes close to being as poorly graded physically compared to even the NFL average traits.
Oh my god the gap for Jerry Rice
his career is worth more than *three* average hof careers…pure insanity
The GOAT football player (sorry Brady). No other player scored that high in any position or separated himself that much from the next highest. He more than doubled the 2nd best (Moss).
The only reason to have Brady over Rice is because of the relative importance of QB to every other position
That’s why I call Brady the most valuable player of all time. But Rice is the greatest football player of all time.
I just want to point out how funny it is that the top two GOATs were both famously “unathletic” compared to the standards for their position.
Interesting point. Rice though had crazy stamina. I’m pretty sure much of his achievement came because he’d be sprinting in the second half while everyone else was gassed. I’d like to see his second-half stats compared to first half and how that matches up with his peers.
Right place at the right time. Game was evolving not taking away from his legacy or legend but QBs and rules were favorable at that time.
Wait, do you think the rules were *more* favorable for passing in his era?
More favorable than previous eras.
The next best players record-wise had their primes after him in more favorable eras...
Good point. Cards on the table I think Johnson is the GOAT because he had little support and was a threat always.
Calvin or Chris? I'm assuming Calvin because I don't think anyone has ever made a case for Chris to be the GOAT.
Calvin.
That doesn’t explain him more than doubling all his peers. You’d think the guys playing in the same time would have similar stats then.
Sorry my next comment was look who was throwing to him. Montana and Young. 2 really good QBs. Stacked teams.
It’s not like they’re the only great QBs ever. Countless WRs had shots with some awesome QBs. Also, bringing up Jerry is how people knock down Joe and Steve so it goes both ways.
Good point...
Served up by Montana and then Young...c'mon...
A lot of that is size related for AB and that wasn’t such a big deal as offenses became more spread oriented. His 40/shuttle times were pretty spot on with Ochocincos. Feel like AB could have easily run better than the 4.55 recorded as well. Not everyone spends weeks training to do their absolute best at the combine.
Brandon Browner ran a 4.68 and had a 5.22 RAS as a CB, dude was a monster of a press corner though
A lot of veteran WRs and CBs end up still doing decent based on reading the opposition pre-snap and figuring out the right place to be at the right time. Granted, usually the veterans still on teams were guys who were stars in their prime.
Richard Sherman wasn’t especially fast quick footed, he just absolutely knew where to be before the WR did.
This is about to get very lunch pail
Seahawks' WR Steve Largent wasn't very physically gifted by most measures, but he could change directions in a hurry. He attributed it to "thick ankles".
Zach Thomas was short, slow, unathletic LB that had a career as good as Brian Urlacher's
Gah, beat me to it.
Zach Thomas was better than Urlacher. Its a crime he took so long to get to the hall
Terrell Davis and Arian Foster.
In what world is Arian Foster not athletic?
In the real world? [Arian Foster RAS testing.](https://ras.football/2019/12/21/arian-foster-ras/)
Yeah he was undrafted for a reason
He stayed too long at Tennesee .... he should have left after his junior year..
He was struggling with a hamstring injury at the time...he has talked about this...
His athleticism wasn't really measurable. I consider balance and body control athleticism, but his ability to slide through holes, shift balance to evade tackles, and get into positions of leverage while pushing through defenders was very good, but not something that could be tested. He was a natural runner with the ball in ways faster, more agile, and more explosive RBs simply weren't. That's athleticism to me. But yeah, his measurables sucked.
JC Jackson is dominating the Chargers dead cap space
Cooper Kupp is probably the best answer. Marginal athlete that graded poorly at his combine. Was expected to be an average starter at best, but has certainly dominated to the tune of record stats and at 1 time was the highest paid receiver in the league.
Didn’t he like change how he runs and got a lot quicker or something once in the league though?
He literally got faster after his acl healed
I mean his 3 cone and short shuttle were still in top 20% of all WR who have participated at the Combine. When you watch his 40 he isn't clean at all in his 3 point stance start. A lot of side to side movement. Dude was definitely more athletic than his 40 time but just is faster running from upright start than in a 3 point.
Yeah he put up near elite numbers in the agility drills and that’s a lot more important than straight line speed.
Kupp had mediocre testing numbers but elite game speed (via GPS tracking data). Its the same way the Rams found Nacua.
Knew that about Puka, didn’t know that about Kupp. A lot of draft heads were saying the same stuff about Keon Coleman’s slow testing but fastest gauntlet drill. Will be interesting to see how he does in this mold of slow tester, fast player
Came here to say this
You know what's funny? They found Kupp's replacement virtually the same way.
Jerry rice
He had crazy stamina though. When everyone was gassed in the second half he’d be sprinting like nothing.
He ran like a 4.7 or something
Unremarkable for a wr
It depends on what aspect of athleticism you look at. Some of the greatest linebackers couldn't run, and some of the greatest cornerbacks couldn't deadlift.
Anquan Boldin is the correct answer. Hines Ward also is the correct answer. That area of football was a beauty to watch as a kid.
I also want to say Bobby Wagner. He is very slow, especially laterally, and isn't especially strong for a linebacker playing in a 3-4 defense. 10x all pro, 9x pro bowl says everything you need to know about how succesful he is.
Bobby was extremely athletic what are you talking about? https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/bobby-wagner?position=ATH
Jason Witten I feel like wasn’t ever the most athletic but made up for it in several other ways Edit: I just remember him being slow as fuck though, so maybe I’m wrong
Jason Witten scored a 9.62 RAS his draft year, he was only slow when he was older https://ras.football/2019/12/16/jason-witten-ras-6421/
Still managed to get himself open all the damn time
His last 5 years, he was incredibly slow, but good God if he wasn't always open for the 1st down.
And only needed a helmet most of the time
Mark bavaro from the giants in the 80s
Hilarious to say it now, but Mr. Became Crazy (Antonio Brown) was 5'10" and ran a 4.48 second 40, and he was a HoF-caliber receiver.
Dwight Clark
Richard Sherman
Julian Edelman
He threw for 1800 and ran for 1300 his senior year. He was appointment viewing for those mac games due to his athleticism. Had the fastest short shuttle of the year he was drafted . He was drafted solely for being an athlete they hoped to find a position
That late 00s-late 10s assembly line of receivers and pass catching RBs
[counterpoint](https://ras.football/2020/01/05/julian-edelman-ras/?amp)
Cris Carter
Jack Lambert because he lost so much weight from when the season started to when it ended.
Steve Largent…. 4.7/40 had great hands and a HOFer
I dont think Richard Sherman was super athletic relative to how well he played. Sure everyone in the NFL tends to be athletic compared to a regular person... but sherman used his brains and craftiness a lot..
Hines Ward? He was of course a tremendous athlete, but he definitely wasn’t especially big, fast, or quick.
I think it depends on how people define athleticism. For example, Keenan Allen isn’t super fast or have a crazy vertical but his agility, acceleration/explosiveness, and change of direction is almost unmatched. Many mic’ed up segments have had DBs talking to him about how crazy it is that he can cut or change direction with zero change in speed. To me, he’s very athletic, but many would say he’s not because of the lack of speed and jumping which is all a lot of people look at for athleticism.
Jarvis Landry's [RAS](https://ras.football/2020/01/03/jarvis-landry-ras/) score
Deandre Hopkins is a good example of this: https://ras.football/2019/12/27/deandre-hopkins-ras/
Few players come to mind: Pepper Johnson Giants MLB, as he aged, was thought to be too slow. Giants kept trying to replace him, but his football IQ meant he was always where he needed to be. Sam Mills, Saints MLB was small enough that teams wouldn't even give him a shot. HC Mora brought Sam with him to the NFL. Again, elite football IQ allowed him to always be where he needed to be. Marquis Colston, Saints WR, was thought to be too slow for WR and too small for TE. His route running and first step separation allowed him to be a day one impact player.
Osama bin laden
Travis Kelce? Dude ain't strong for a TE, definitely ain't fast by any means as well, but built his entire career solely off game IQ and in-play route adjustments. He's making a strong case for GOAT TE despite not being as physically gifted as other GOAT TE candidates like Gronk or uncle Shannon.
Kelce had a RAS of 9.29 vs. Gronk 9.31. That's pretty comparable athletically.
RAS is measured at the combine right? Not an accurate assessment of how they play on the field and/or how they have played throughout their careers. I mean, can you really say Kelce hits as hard or runs as fast as Gronk (or Sharpe)?
Correct that RAS is measured at combine. But if we're talking about being physically gifted, that's what the RAS score is designed to reflect. Runs as fast? Yes. Kelce had a slightly better 40 time, and Kelce has taken screens 80 yards for touchdowns. Late-career Kelce relies more on IQ than before, but he is/was an exceptional athlete
He has an 80 yard touchdown in his career. He was definitely at least as fast as Gronk Also what does this even mean? The dude is like 35, obviously he isn’t gonna have the same athleticism he had at the combine 11 years ago
Are you high? Kelce is extremely athletic lmao
Kelce had an RAS in the 92nd percentile. Young Kelce was a physical freak for his size
He was/is athletic as heck. He was called Baby Gronk early in his career for a reason.
No data to back this up but I feel like Julian Edelman is the perfect answer to the question. College QB turned NFL WR and is one of the most productive skill position players in post season history. Was forced to play in the slot because he was absolutely useless outside the numbers.
He wasn't useless outside the numbers, and he also wasn't pure slot, he was hybrid and lined up at x and z at times. Also idk if he really fits anyway? Does athletic only mean straight line speed? Because he was crazy agile and also ran with a lot of power for his size. When he broke tackles, sometimes it was by changing direction and sometimes it was by running straight through a guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2hgJoCbshk 99% of these highlights with him on offense are him in the slot or inside the numbers doing excellent routes and reads to get open . "Sneaky athletic" is literally a synonym for white and unathletic lmao.