He gave some absolutely great quotes. I still think about this one
> People call you and they want the second pick in the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog. Go away, leave me alone, I ain’t got time to screw around
Well if you're gonna blame him for all the draft bungling then you at least have to give him credit for drafting the two best players currently on the roster in Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas
Jason Garrett is the one who pounded the table for Andrew Thomas.
I will give him half-credit for Dex though - he had tried and failed to trade up for Brian Burns, had no real backup plan so picked the best player at the position he knew best. It was totally due to his skill as a scout that we got Dex, not any skill as a GM.
Don’t forget Giants legend Kadarius Toney. 5D chess move by Gettleman to draft him so Schoen could trade him to the Chiefs and he could stop Philly from getting another ring.
The draft isn't the only area Gettleman fucked up, he also regularly gave contacts to beyond washed dudes such as a 31 year old Jonathan Stewart and a broken Kyle Rudolph AFTER we found out that he had a broken foot.
But really, you can't say that he was cashing checks since that implies apathy at your job. Gettleman actively participated in the destruction of our team.
Darius Slayton has been a solid role player and at times make electric plays but is prone to drops. Still, he seems like a good locker room guy and both Eli and Danny (especially Danny) clicked with him, so I'll give DG some credit for snagging him in the 5th.
Blake Martinez and James bradberry were immediate impact free agent signings.
Other than that and sexy dexy / AT like others have mentioned, it’s been a rough few years for the gmen
...its been a rough 13 years now. But then again i didn't have to live through the 70's when we were a laughingstock like my dad had to - and he stayed a fan. Some things just are imprinted on the soul, I can't help but love the team
Dave Caldwell managed to build a roster that was 37-86 over 7 god damn years in Jacksonville.
He missed most of his draft picks and was equally bad at signing FA's. Football terrorist of the highest degree.
Was he the one who allowed Gus Bradley to somehow stick around as HC for 4 years despite his record screaming that he should've been dismissed in year 2?
Well it’s not as black and white as that.
First everyone claims gus Bradley as one of the worst coaches ever. So is it Caldwells fault the coach sucked ? Would it have mattered if he got more pieces ?
He also took over for gene smith who didn’t draft really anyone of note. Is a GM supposed to go from a completely decimated team to being good in 1 off season ? Should it take 2? 3?
He for sure picked some pretty good players and signed some pretty good free agents. Put together a historically great defence.
He signed Calais Campbell, Boyue, drafted Allen Robinson, James Robinson (before he got injured), cam Robinson, Javan Taylor, yannick, Jalen Ramsey, he took Myles Jack in the 2nd after everyone was passing on him who turned out to be pretty good. Telvin Smith.
The question was is he just collecting a paycheck and not trying. I think the facts prove that to be false.
His last season was the Covid year. We literally were trading away and cutting everyone hedging if there would even be a season and to clear cap and to put us in position to draft TLaw. I don’t think at minimum the first and last season should be held against him.
Then he got hired pretty quickly by howie in Philly who a lot of people think is one of the best GMs in football. Seems people who this sub think are pretty good at their job think he’s not as bad as people on Reddit would want you to believe.
There's no division that is as familiar with long term irrelevance and mediocrity like the AFC south. Except for the Colts. Nice to be able to draft Manning and Luck.
>He missed most of his draft picks and was equally bad at signing FA's.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take
\- ~~Wayne Gretzky~~
\- Michael Scott
The "logic" was Easterby wasn't trying to win. He was trying to turn the Texans into a cult and a house of God. He didn't hire people based on their ability to win football games. He simply hired people who thought exactly the same way he did.
I think the logic was "we need to have a head coach for this season and this season only, who's willing to take a job like that?" And Culley was willing. Certainly wasn't a decision based on winning football games.
Tbf I do think Millen tried (I don't believe for a second that he drove the Lions into the shitter on purpose). He just wasn't cut out to be a GM. It was William Dunce Ford's fault for choosing to ignore his warnings that he wasn't qualified and hiring him anyways.
Didn't just keep him. He signed him to an extension and made him one of the highest paid GMs in the NFL at the time. WCF sounded like a great guy to work for if you're looking for a job where you don't actually have to perform and do your job but will be guaranteed raises and long-term job security every year regardless.
He sucked beyond being incompetent though. In 2007 he called Al Davis and told him not to draft Jamarcus Russell and to take Calvin because he was still so loyal to his ole ball coach. That right there was a fireable offense.
That was a prime example of why he wasn't cut out to be a GM. He wasn't cutthroat enough for it and was too nice a guy (case in point in that situation going out of his way to do another team a favor as opposed to the team he's employed by).
I mean it’s not his fault for taking the job, it’s the owners for offering it. He was upfront about his capabilities and was for whatever reason still offered the job. If someone offered me a job that pays millions a year, whether I’m competent or not, I’m taking it (unless it’s something like a neurosurgeon obviously)
Wasn't Cerrato actually fired by one of Snyder's GMs because he brought no value to the organization only for Danny to immediately fire that GM and rehire Cerrato himself?
Yeah. In 2001 they hired Marty Schottenheimer and gave him control over personnel decisions. Marty fired Vinny. The team then finished on an 8-3 run and looked really promising. Then Snyder fired Marty, rehired Vinny, and hired Steve Spurrier as head coach.
It can't be said enough: fuck Dan Snyder.
I like how after the Chargers got completely embarrassed on TNF, Spanos fired both him and Staley on the same day. He didn’t even give him a chance to finish out his duties. Reminds me of the Lions axing Patricia and Quinn right after Thanksgiving.
Given our track record... Things are going pretty well with him so... But then again, I'm used to being castrated three times a day with this organization and maybe I'm good with it cuz he only castrates me twice a day. Idk
I mean Telesco was bad enough that they changed their entire philosophy when they hired Jim which means that Telesco was at least partially to blame and had large amounts of autonomy over the chargers roster.
Tbh this could go either way. He spent money in FA and drafted well enough in the first but he also had no incentive to build a sustained good team because the Spanos family was fine with mediocrity for years.
I lean towards he was just incompetent and ownership never lit a fire under his ass to improve.
Wasn't he with the Chargers for a long time? Like "does this guy have blackmail material on Dean Spanos to have kept his job this long" long time? The results don't exactly justify how long he was with the Chargers for.
Telesco was pretty average as a GM, calling him not serious isn’t fair. He got fired because he could for the life of him hire a good coach but who has any idea how much the Spanii had to do with coaching hires.
How much of it is reputation as well? Spanos is an owner who fired a coach after a 14-2 season (and many coaches worth a damn out there greatly value job security and ownership's commitment to them long-term). In between Schottenheimer and Harbaugh they've consistently hired mediocre to bad coaches (when the best of the bunch was Norv Turner you know that's not good).
Absolutely true as well. Plus TT gets criticism for not having good depth on the roster after the top end guys but depth players require good coaching to become good contributors. The top end guys are usually going to be relatively good anyway (eg Joey Bosa) and it's the bottom of the roster guys that need the most coaching. So even if TT was great at picking prospects the coaches have to take those prospects and make them into good players.
Maybe TT isn't a great GM and is only mediocre but that is still probably an upgrade over every other Raiders personnel person in like 20 years. And with all the first round busts the Raiders have had in that time period a guy who regularly hits on those picks is a nice change.
He was a social media GM. He’d make big splashy moves with seemingly no consideration for fit and team composition. They always had horrible depth, haven’t had an every down back in ages, and had the slowest wr room in the league coupled with an o-line that couldn’t pass block when inevitably a starter goes down. It must have been one of the easiest offenses in the league to gameplan for despite having Herbert.
I have an unpopular opinion: half the FO executives right now are what you’re describing. The reason we don’t see it, however, is because they prioritize an entertaining team that makes money over a winning team. Because there’s absolutely a difference.
If we are talking about useless front offices, we need not go beyond the Cleveland Browns.
- Mike Holmgren
- Ray Farmer
- Mike Lombardi (especially terrible)
- Tom Heckert
- George Kokinis
Considering the personnel decisions Holmgren made I'm not convinced that he wasn't a sleeper agent as well. Also Haslam came from Pittsburgh so there's that lol. For how good the Rooneys are at running a stable NFL organization former minority owners who have left Pittsburgh to buy their own teams (Haslam, Tepper) have been the exact opposite of that.
Minus the Watson contract (which I 100% believe was a Jimmy Haslam decision). But yes, the way the Haslams completely stay out of operations with the Columbus Crew is exactly how they should be running the Browns. The Browns are a bigger investment though so they'll always be more hands on with them.
Yes. Somehow, not the worst thing he did. He traded the fifth overall pick for what ended up becoming Alex Mack (21), Mohammed Massaquoi (50), David Veikune (52), Coye Francis (191) and James Davis (195). Also got Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, and Abram Elam in the trade. Only Mack had an above-average career.
Marty Hurney was fired by Carolina (largely for creating what was at the time one of the worst salary cap situations in the NFL), became a talk radio host, and then returned on an “interim basis” before reclaiming the job until Tepper cleaned out the Jerry Richardson hires.
Given that Jerry Jones (an owner, not technically an exec … I know, but he’s heavily involved) has the most highly valued franchise in North America, but also the lowest cash spending in the league over the past decade-plus, and lowest this year by $50M, I think it’s fair to lump in whatever Dallas executive that he’s puppeteering.
Jerry deserves a ton of criticism. But, he is 10th effective cap spending this year before paying Ceedee and potentially extending Dak. His FA spending looks lower than a lot of teams because he has paid a lot of "his guys" a ton of money instead of doing it in FA.
The whole point of cash spending is to circumvent the cap by spreading out the hits. You do this by extending your guys early. Look at Philly for an example of what happens when the owner is willing to spend. It's not about FAs, it's about when you extend your guys and extending before other guys get extensions. Had he extended Dak and Lamb earlier they would have had more money to work with this season.
But if you look at resources/income available related to results, you’d expect more than one playoff win/season sometime in the last quarter century.
Lauding his transactions or roster management is one thing. This thread is more about results. And many of the metrics suggest he’s cheap.
That's not how the NFL works. You can't buy championships just by having the more valuable franchises. The salary cap also has a salary floor, which guarantees each team spends the same amount in players over a period of time (4 years, I believe). In this regard, every team is the same when it comes to money spent on salaries. Jerry has also poured a ton into practice facilities, team resources, etc. He has many flaws but being cheap isn't one. And not having as many playoff wins as might be hoped is a criticism on his competence in the front office but not on him phoning it in as the question asks.
You can't buy them no, but you can essentially circumvent the cap by spending cash via signing bonuses since they prorate over the life of the contract. You don't have to be a high cash spender every season, but if you do it right, it allows you to extend multiple star players and save money against the cap in the long run giving you more flexibility in the future.
The floor doesn’t guarantee every team spends the same amount over four years, it just guarantees you had to spend the minimum to cover your own ass. Teams can and do spend beyond that.
How they treat all their players like an animal in a zoo too. Jerry needs to go. Says they’re going “all in” and doesn’t make a single move for a FA before the draft. I guess he’s planning on living off of pick 6’s the regular season again?
honestly just dissolve the cowboys, have a lottery to divide their players amongst the league, and bring back the supersonics as an NFL team, who says no?
Ita about the owner. If I tell GM to build me a championship team that's one thing. If I tell GM to build me the best team given budget X that's quite another. If I tell GM just make us competitive given budget X so that I maintain profit level Y thats another. The Culverhouses of original Buccaneers ownership were famous for the last approach.
The Bucs weren't even competitive under Culverhouse so I don't think his bar for the team was even that high. The only years where it looked like they had somewhat of a pulse under him were the Doug Williams years (and Williams was run out of town because Culverhouse thought he wasn't worth paying more than $120K to).
Indeed. IIRC the Culverhouses had, during their ownership, one of the most profitable US pro sports franchises in the Buccaneers. And that team was non competitive.
The salary cap is not just the maximum a team can spend, there's also a minimum and a running average. If you add up every teams spending (on players) over a 10 year period, there won't be much of a difference between the highest and lowest spending teams.
There has only been a floor since 2013. The prior 20 years of the salary cap era there was no floor so owners could be as cheap as they liked while being able to stomach the terrible product they were putting on the field.
If we go by what we saw on the 2012 Hard Knocks I think Jeff Ireland was a significantly worse GM for the Dolphins than Grier. That guy wasn't just bad, he actively treated players like shit (watching the Vontae Davis trade happen live on Hard Knocks was just uncomfortable and poorly handled on Ireland's part).
John Idzik intentionally tanked so he could pick his own HC, and to get the immensely popular (at the time) Rex Ryan fired. He cleared a ton of cap without signing anyone of value. No one from the "Idzik 12" draft got a second contract.
Truly believe Idzik was there just for a paycheck
Eh disagree. He was absolutely terrible at his job but the reason he got the job in the first place is because the position was so unwanted. Woody Johnson telling prospective GMs they had to keep Rex Ryan for a year probably turned off a lot of candidates.
I liked Rex when he was here, but he should've been fired after 2012 season alongside Tannenbaum and the owner should've given the new regime a clean slate to work with. And the cap situation was absolutely terrible so we were going to have to take our lumps regardless. Worst thing that happened in 2013 was the team overperforming with an 8-8 record when it was clearly obvious they weren't good. Regression was inevitable in 2014 and everything fell apart.
Scott Pioli. He really had no business being a GM, but he stood next to Belichek at the right time.
Like assistance coaches standing next to a great qb at the right time then get a HC job. He had some hits no doubt, but the draft is just a part of being a GM, and he didn’t do anything else particularly well.
Jack Easterby did have a plan with the Texans and it was just get Nick Caserio by all means. It kind of blew back on him since the Texans got in trouble for tampering and he got fired. But he did get Caserio and Texans fans love the dude.
That was O'Brien really. Jack was buddies with O'Brien and got hired that way. Then the two of them worked to try and get Caserio.
Funny enough, those two are long gone but Caserio is still here doing a good job.
The David Culley hire had Easterby's stench all over it (I mean how could you possibly justify hiring a head coach as unqualified as him). Where the Texans are now has much more to do with Caserio than Easterby.
Wasn’t his original plant to hire Josh McCown as HC despite him being only one year removed from playing and with his only experience being an assistant on his son’s high school team?
Jags? Seems like whenever they have good young players to build around they completely turn around and shit the bed. Owner seems like he's ok with a mediocre team as long as the team is making money but I guess that can be said about most teams
They currently have our previous GM, the one who made our owner get rid of Jim Harbaugh.
Idk if Baalke’s been doing his job down in Jacksonville since he’s been there, but I will always begrudge him for his stupid feud with the ‘Baugh.
Baalke has way too much of an ego, or at least when he was with us.
But I guess I’m referring more to the owner Khan in regards to the Jags. I believe he’s one of those hands on owners but he’s so bad at it. I’m glad York took a step back after the Jim/Trent fiasco
Khan is as far from hands on as you can get. He completely removes himself from operations and lets the football guys run it, to a fault - which is why he keeps guys around too long.
Baalke created nothing but divisions & cliques in the locker room to undermine Harbaugh. Jed was either too naive or too disinterested to notice what was happening under his nose. Then there was Trent's draft record; bust after bust after bust... too long a list and FFS I'm so glad he's gone. Just feel bad for Jags fans being stuck with him.
Since I don't see him here on mobile, Steve Keim. Completely dogshit at drafting, mediocre in free agency outside of the DeAndre Hopkins swindling of the Texans (but how much of that was actually him being smart and how much of it was Bill O'Brien being very highly regarded), to say nothing of embarrassing the team with his conduct outside of the organization.
Thank Christ Michael Bidwill pulled his head out of his ass and cut the losses on him and Kingsbury last off-season.
Look at the millions of dollars Matt Millen was paid to suck in Detroit because WCF was too loyal to him to fire him (and even gave him an extension and made him one of the highest paid GMs in the NFL during that timeframe). If an owner was continuously rewarding you for poor results like that eventually you'd probably develop an apathetic attitude towards trying to build a winner as well (especially if you know you're already getting paid).
If you take a big swing and miss everyone calls for your head regardless. If you build conservatively and can stay above .500 and make the playoffs a time or two, you look competent and get to keep being a multi-millionaire
Matt Millen.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Millen#Detroit\_Lions\_management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Millen#Detroit_Lions_management)
Terry Fontenot.
He’s drafted poorly and advised against hiring Bill as the coach.
He’s taken a Tight End and a Wide Receiver in the first when they had other issues to deal with, including QB.
Then he fixes it with a lucrative deal to a guy who is coming off and then spends a highly valuable pick on his back up.
Either that or Arthur Blank is meddling a lot.
>Then he fixes it with a lucrative deal to a guy who is coming off
Not only that, they're about to get dinged for tampering because they were in contact with Cousins before free agency officially started.
Baalke is a franchise terrorist, and not only managed to banish Jim Harbaugh to the shadow realm (Michigan), but also oversaw the biggest roster collape I've ever seen when literally *everyone* on the team decided to retire in 2015. Now he spends his time drafting obscure D-linemen that sometimes work out, paying his own picks with the 49ers absurd sums to join his little Duvaal D-line project, and wasting a very talented young QB's career.
The Bills is Russ Brandon. He was the President when Ralph was sick/dying/dead and built the team to sell tickets, not win. Signing TO for example, he did well but everyone knew it was just a pit stop for him.
He was a poor GM, but that wasn't his skill set. He was a "nonfootball ops" exec before that, I think. He, and Whaley for that matter, were just inept in that position.
Whaley and Nix were under Brandon and alongside Marv , so ya.
At least those guys were football guys and tried, even though they sucked. That’s different than just worrying about ticket sales.
Came here to suggest him. According to his Wiki he’s no longer affiliated with any NFL teams. Last role was SPECIAL ASSISTANT to the GM. So pretty much Dwight Schrute for the Jags.
Pretty much any team mired in mediocrity. Their goals are just to be decent and not get fired, not to be amazing. You gotta take things one step at a time.
Ryan Pace got the gig because he had a cool haircut, so I’m going to give him an honorable mention.
Not necessarily just collecting a paycheck, but definitely Michael Scott levels of delusion and critical thinking.
I think there's a lot of them that are mainly trying to keep their job as long as possible, which means they're fine winning 8-11 with a team that has no chance of making it past the divisional round.
You're not going deep in the playoffs with a mid-grade QB making 30-40 million, and you've immediately put a low ceiling on your team for a raised floor. Seahawks picking up Geno kept them average but there was no way they'd ever be a top 5 team in their conference with him.
Same with the Raiders/Saints both paying Derek Carr, Bucs paying Baker (I like him and he's decent, but they'll never contend), Miami is gonna pay Tua a ton even though he's made 1 playoff appearance (and another when injured) and lost both, Daniel Jones with the Giants, Cousins multiple places, The Colts multiple years in a row with aging QB's instead of trying to draft one.
If a rookie QB doesn't have playoff success on his rookie contract, what are the chances that changes when he goes from 5% to 15-20% of the cap? Basically none, but every FO will still give them a contract, because they'll keep their job longer than resetting and trying to draft a QB that might be a total bust.
A lot of FO's will simply try to make a competent team to keep their job over risking drafting a QB bust and losing their job after 1 year. It's hard to blame a lot of them though cause there's not enough good QB's to go around, and the middle guys keep getting paid only 10-15 mil less than the stars, which is a huge disadvantage.
That’s a tough one. It’s one thing to be incompetent. It’s another to be willfully negligent. Without being in the room, I’d just be stabbing in the dark.
Thomas Dimitrov for the Falcons. My God he was bad but what stands out is signing Todd Gurley AFTER he had been diagnosed with degenerative knee issues.
Anyone named Spanos, but only because they can't get jobs anywhere else but with the family.
Think if Eric and Donald Trump Jr. Were handed the keys to an NFL franchise
Did Gettleman do *anything* good for the Giants?
He gave some absolutely great quotes. I still think about this one > People call you and they want the second pick in the draft for a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog. Go away, leave me alone, I ain’t got time to screw around
Gettleman needs more than one glizzy
This is even funnier when you realize giants were giving away pepsi to season ticket holders lol
Well if you're gonna blame him for all the draft bungling then you at least have to give him credit for drafting the two best players currently on the roster in Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas
Jason Garrett is the one who pounded the table for Andrew Thomas. I will give him half-credit for Dex though - he had tried and failed to trade up for Brian Burns, had no real backup plan so picked the best player at the position he knew best. It was totally due to his skill as a scout that we got Dex, not any skill as a GM.
Good scout horrible GM is Gettleman in a nutshell.
Classic example of being promoted to the point of incompetence
Don’t forget Giants legend Kadarius Toney. 5D chess move by Gettleman to draft him so Schoen could trade him to the Chiefs and he could stop Philly from getting another ring.
The draft isn't the only area Gettleman fucked up, he also regularly gave contacts to beyond washed dudes such as a 31 year old Jonathan Stewart and a broken Kyle Rudolph AFTER we found out that he had a broken foot. But really, you can't say that he was cashing checks since that implies apathy at your job. Gettleman actively participated in the destruction of our team.
He set the standard with that BS Alec Ogletree contract.
The Stewart contract was a sign of what was to come. Guy could barely move but since Gettleman had him in Carolina he had to get his guy. So dumb.
Gettleman always gets his hog mollies
Those pictures of his draft room setup being a single laptop amid a gigantic mountain of paper binders was certainly very funny if nothing else.
Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas. Xavier McKinney was a good player too. That's pretty much it.
Darius Slayton has been a solid role player and at times make electric plays but is prone to drops. Still, he seems like a good locker room guy and both Eli and Danny (especially Danny) clicked with him, so I'll give DG some credit for snagging him in the 5th.
Blake Martinez and James bradberry were immediate impact free agent signings. Other than that and sexy dexy / AT like others have mentioned, it’s been a rough few years for the gmen
...its been a rough 13 years now. But then again i didn't have to live through the 70's when we were a laughingstock like my dad had to - and he stayed a fan. Some things just are imprinted on the soul, I can't help but love the team
He hired 4 computer folks.
Drafted dexter lawrence
He was 1/3 on first rounders that year.. boy did I think the nose tackle was the worst pick of them. Boy was I wrong.
The giants saw what happened in Carolina and said they wanted that. Thanks for that accorsi you just for men fuck head.
Dave Caldwell managed to build a roster that was 37-86 over 7 god damn years in Jacksonville. He missed most of his draft picks and was equally bad at signing FA's. Football terrorist of the highest degree.
Was he the one who allowed Gus Bradley to somehow stick around as HC for 4 years despite his record screaming that he should've been dismissed in year 2?
Caldwell didn’t have firing or hiring power. Khan decided that.
Khaaaaaannn
I've done far worse than kill you. I've *hurt* you. And I wish to go on... *hurting* you.
He also built a team that was a quarter away from the Super Bowl.
His teams finished in last place for 7 of out the 8 seasons he was GM though. That’s pretty hard to defend.
Well it’s not as black and white as that. First everyone claims gus Bradley as one of the worst coaches ever. So is it Caldwells fault the coach sucked ? Would it have mattered if he got more pieces ? He also took over for gene smith who didn’t draft really anyone of note. Is a GM supposed to go from a completely decimated team to being good in 1 off season ? Should it take 2? 3? He for sure picked some pretty good players and signed some pretty good free agents. Put together a historically great defence. He signed Calais Campbell, Boyue, drafted Allen Robinson, James Robinson (before he got injured), cam Robinson, Javan Taylor, yannick, Jalen Ramsey, he took Myles Jack in the 2nd after everyone was passing on him who turned out to be pretty good. Telvin Smith. The question was is he just collecting a paycheck and not trying. I think the facts prove that to be false. His last season was the Covid year. We literally were trading away and cutting everyone hedging if there would even be a season and to clear cap and to put us in position to draft TLaw. I don’t think at minimum the first and last season should be held against him. Then he got hired pretty quickly by howie in Philly who a lot of people think is one of the best GMs in football. Seems people who this sub think are pretty good at their job think he’s not as bad as people on Reddit would want you to believe.
Sounds like he’s just a Robinson merchant
Not sure what you mean ? He also picked the good Josh Allen. Idk why I left him out. Prolly the best player he picked. Him or Ramsey.
That team had over a quarter of the wins the Jags had under Caldwell lol
Yea Caldwell should have coached also I guess.
There's no division that is as familiar with long term irrelevance and mediocrity like the AFC south. Except for the Colts. Nice to be able to draft Manning and Luck.
Outside of his playoff season; the 2013-2020 Jags minis were 27- 85 with a .241 win percentage. That makes it even worse.
WEST CALD-WELL
>He missed most of his draft picks and was equally bad at signing FA's. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take \- ~~Wayne Gretzky~~ \- Michael Scott
Scott Pioli
He got the stairwells clean.
i'm starting to think this Gettleman fella wasn't bringing his best
I’m not sure what Jack easterby was doing. It sure wasn’t football.
I think Jesus had the wheel and Christ is he a bad GM.
Without exaggerating, I think he was trying to build a cult.
Ruining a city's professional football team might not have been the best way of gaining followers
The Easterby works in mysterious ways.
There was definitely no logic whatsoever behind the David Culley hire. That hire had Easterby's fingerprints all over it.
The logic was that he was a lame duck from the moment he’s hired I’m not saying it was good logic, but it was some form of obvious and evident logic
The "logic" was Easterby wasn't trying to win. He was trying to turn the Texans into a cult and a house of God. He didn't hire people based on their ability to win football games. He simply hired people who thought exactly the same way he did.
I think the logic was "we need to have a head coach for this season and this season only, who's willing to take a job like that?" And Culley was willing. Certainly wasn't a decision based on winning football games.
Matt Millen told the owner he wasn't qualified but did still take the job The rest is history
Tbf I do think Millen tried (I don't believe for a second that he drove the Lions into the shitter on purpose). He just wasn't cut out to be a GM. It was William Dunce Ford's fault for choosing to ignore his warnings that he wasn't qualified and hiring him anyways.
I agree. He was trying. He was just so far in over his head and completely unable to do the job effectively.
And keeping him for 8 years. I knew that Millen would be on here lol
Didn't just keep him. He signed him to an extension and made him one of the highest paid GMs in the NFL at the time. WCF sounded like a great guy to work for if you're looking for a job where you don't actually have to perform and do your job but will be guaranteed raises and long-term job security every year regardless.
He sucked beyond being incompetent though. In 2007 he called Al Davis and told him not to draft Jamarcus Russell and to take Calvin because he was still so loyal to his ole ball coach. That right there was a fireable offense.
That was a prime example of why he wasn't cut out to be a GM. He wasn't cutthroat enough for it and was too nice a guy (case in point in that situation going out of his way to do another team a favor as opposed to the team he's employed by).
That’s on the ownership. It was so obvious he was in over his head and not able to do the job, but they gave it to him and kept him for so long.
I mean it’s not his fault for taking the job, it’s the owners for offering it. He was upfront about his capabilities and was for whatever reason still offered the job. If someone offered me a job that pays millions a year, whether I’m competent or not, I’m taking it (unless it’s something like a neurosurgeon obviously)
And I sure as hell wouldn't even consider saying anything about not being qualified
Bruce Allen
C'mon. According to him the culture in Washington was "damn good" while he was there lol.
Bruce Allen and Vinny Cerrato perfected the art of saying yes to Snyder lmao. Textbook check collectors
And Vinny Cerrato before him. 20 years of garbage between the two of them.
Wasn't Cerrato actually fired by one of Snyder's GMs because he brought no value to the organization only for Danny to immediately fire that GM and rehire Cerrato himself?
Yeah. In 2001 they hired Marty Schottenheimer and gave him control over personnel decisions. Marty fired Vinny. The team then finished on an 8-3 run and looked really promising. Then Snyder fired Marty, rehired Vinny, and hired Steve Spurrier as head coach. It can't be said enough: fuck Dan Snyder.
Winning off the field.
I'm surprised Telesco isn't on the list. Then again, maybe he really did try, but he just is that incompetent.
I like how after the Chargers got completely embarrassed on TNF, Spanos fired both him and Staley on the same day. He didn’t even give him a chance to finish out his duties. Reminds me of the Lions axing Patricia and Quinn right after Thanksgiving.
I like that the Raiders then signed him
Me too. Favorite moment of offseason so far.
Given our track record... Things are going pretty well with him so... But then again, I'm used to being castrated three times a day with this organization and maybe I'm good with it cuz he only castrates me twice a day. Idk
He will make amazing big name signings. Your depth will be what causes you to barely miss the playoffs, though.
We were perennial off-season champs for a reason
Hold me mama im scared
Eh, Spanos is the problem with the Chargers. Can't blame the GM when ownership doesn't care about football or winning.
I mean Telesco was bad enough that they changed their entire philosophy when they hired Jim which means that Telesco was at least partially to blame and had large amounts of autonomy over the chargers roster.
Tbh this could go either way. He spent money in FA and drafted well enough in the first but he also had no incentive to build a sustained good team because the Spanos family was fine with mediocrity for years. I lean towards he was just incompetent and ownership never lit a fire under his ass to improve.
Wasn't he with the Chargers for a long time? Like "does this guy have blackmail material on Dean Spanos to have kept his job this long" long time? The results don't exactly justify how long he was with the Chargers for.
Telesco was pretty average as a GM, calling him not serious isn’t fair. He got fired because he could for the life of him hire a good coach but who has any idea how much the Spanii had to do with coaching hires.
You can only hire coaches the owner is willing to pay for and before Harbough was hired Spanos wasn't opening the checkbook much
How much of it is reputation as well? Spanos is an owner who fired a coach after a 14-2 season (and many coaches worth a damn out there greatly value job security and ownership's commitment to them long-term). In between Schottenheimer and Harbaugh they've consistently hired mediocre to bad coaches (when the best of the bunch was Norv Turner you know that's not good).
Absolutely true as well. Plus TT gets criticism for not having good depth on the roster after the top end guys but depth players require good coaching to become good contributors. The top end guys are usually going to be relatively good anyway (eg Joey Bosa) and it's the bottom of the roster guys that need the most coaching. So even if TT was great at picking prospects the coaches have to take those prospects and make them into good players. Maybe TT isn't a great GM and is only mediocre but that is still probably an upgrade over every other Raiders personnel person in like 20 years. And with all the first round busts the Raiders have had in that time period a guy who regularly hits on those picks is a nice change.
Not to mention that the firing of Schottenheimer and every shitty coach since have only had Dean and John Spanos as their common denominators.
He was a social media GM. He’d make big splashy moves with seemingly no consideration for fit and team composition. They always had horrible depth, haven’t had an every down back in ages, and had the slowest wr room in the league coupled with an o-line that couldn’t pass block when inevitably a starter goes down. It must have been one of the easiest offenses in the league to gameplan for despite having Herbert.
I have an unpopular opinion: half the FO executives right now are what you’re describing. The reason we don’t see it, however, is because they prioritize an entertaining team that makes money over a winning team. Because there’s absolutely a difference.
If we are talking about useless front offices, we need not go beyond the Cleveland Browns. - Mike Holmgren - Ray Farmer - Mike Lombardi (especially terrible) - Tom Heckert - George Kokinis
Wasn't Kokinis the one who quit mysteriously in the middle of his first year as GM and nobody really knew why?
he was definitely a Ravens sleeper agent
Considering the personnel decisions Holmgren made I'm not convinced that he wasn't a sleeper agent as well. Also Haslam came from Pittsburgh so there's that lol. For how good the Rooneys are at running a stable NFL organization former minority owners who have left Pittsburgh to buy their own teams (Haslam, Tepper) have been the exact opposite of that.
Haslam has been much better with the current FO. Stays away from operations and is just a checkbook.
Minus the Watson contract (which I 100% believe was a Jimmy Haslam decision). But yes, the way the Haslams completely stay out of operations with the Columbus Crew is exactly how they should be running the Browns. The Browns are a bigger investment though so they'll always be more hands on with them.
Yes. Somehow, not the worst thing he did. He traded the fifth overall pick for what ended up becoming Alex Mack (21), Mohammed Massaquoi (50), David Veikune (52), Coye Francis (191) and James Davis (195). Also got Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff, and Abram Elam in the trade. Only Mack had an above-average career.
Marty Hurney was fired by Carolina (largely for creating what was at the time one of the worst salary cap situations in the NFL), became a talk radio host, and then returned on an “interim basis” before reclaiming the job until Tepper cleaned out the Jerry Richardson hires.
As bad as Marty Hurney was, he did have a great track record with 1st round picks.
Given that Jerry Jones (an owner, not technically an exec … I know, but he’s heavily involved) has the most highly valued franchise in North America, but also the lowest cash spending in the league over the past decade-plus, and lowest this year by $50M, I think it’s fair to lump in whatever Dallas executive that he’s puppeteering.
Given the Cowboys draft record the past decade its hard for me to call them unserious. The Jones' problem is they're too stubborn in their ways
Cowboys have become very good at the draft ever since Stephen Jones gave Jerry the fake steering wheel on the shopping cart.
I would co-sign this, and also put lots of blame at the foot of Stephen Jones
Jerry deserves a ton of criticism. But, he is 10th effective cap spending this year before paying Ceedee and potentially extending Dak. His FA spending looks lower than a lot of teams because he has paid a lot of "his guys" a ton of money instead of doing it in FA.
The whole point of cash spending is to circumvent the cap by spreading out the hits. You do this by extending your guys early. Look at Philly for an example of what happens when the owner is willing to spend. It's not about FAs, it's about when you extend your guys and extending before other guys get extensions. Had he extended Dak and Lamb earlier they would have had more money to work with this season.
But if you look at resources/income available related to results, you’d expect more than one playoff win/season sometime in the last quarter century. Lauding his transactions or roster management is one thing. This thread is more about results. And many of the metrics suggest he’s cheap.
I think the more valid criticism is that he over values his players more than he is cheap. How is paying Zeke/Dak/Amari all top 5 money "cheap"?
That's not how the NFL works. You can't buy championships just by having the more valuable franchises. The salary cap also has a salary floor, which guarantees each team spends the same amount in players over a period of time (4 years, I believe). In this regard, every team is the same when it comes to money spent on salaries. Jerry has also poured a ton into practice facilities, team resources, etc. He has many flaws but being cheap isn't one. And not having as many playoff wins as might be hoped is a criticism on his competence in the front office but not on him phoning it in as the question asks.
You can't buy them no, but you can essentially circumvent the cap by spending cash via signing bonuses since they prorate over the life of the contract. You don't have to be a high cash spender every season, but if you do it right, it allows you to extend multiple star players and save money against the cap in the long run giving you more flexibility in the future.
The floor doesn’t guarantee every team spends the same amount over four years, it just guarantees you had to spend the minimum to cover your own ass. Teams can and do spend beyond that.
How they treat all their players like an animal in a zoo too. Jerry needs to go. Says they’re going “all in” and doesn’t make a single move for a FA before the draft. I guess he’s planning on living off of pick 6’s the regular season again?
honestly just dissolve the cowboys, have a lottery to divide their players amongst the league, and bring back the supersonics as an NFL team, who says no?
My only objection is that I believe the Triangles are more deserving. They would help bring awareness to geometry and the Illuminati.
WHO TURNED MY FRIGGIN CAR INTO A TRIANGLE
31 teams' fans would be in favor of this
God
Ita about the owner. If I tell GM to build me a championship team that's one thing. If I tell GM to build me the best team given budget X that's quite another. If I tell GM just make us competitive given budget X so that I maintain profit level Y thats another. The Culverhouses of original Buccaneers ownership were famous for the last approach.
The Bucs weren't even competitive under Culverhouse so I don't think his bar for the team was even that high. The only years where it looked like they had somewhat of a pulse under him were the Doug Williams years (and Williams was run out of town because Culverhouse thought he wasn't worth paying more than $120K to).
100% There are owners across all sports perfectly content with only extracting revenue from the team with no intent or care about competing.
Indeed. IIRC the Culverhouses had, during their ownership, one of the most profitable US pro sports franchises in the Buccaneers. And that team was non competitive.
The salary cap is not just the maximum a team can spend, there's also a minimum and a running average. If you add up every teams spending (on players) over a 10 year period, there won't be much of a difference between the highest and lowest spending teams.
There has only been a floor since 2013. The prior 20 years of the salary cap era there was no floor so owners could be as cheap as they liked while being able to stomach the terrible product they were putting on the field.
I think we have to define " not much difference?" If you're spending $10 and I'm spending $8 that's 20% less.
Chris Grier is the longest tenured GM in the NFL without a playoff win, and Dolphins fans still worship the ground he walks
If we go by what we saw on the 2012 Hard Knocks I think Jeff Ireland was a significantly worse GM for the Dolphins than Grier. That guy wasn't just bad, he actively treated players like shit (watching the Vontae Davis trade happen live on Hard Knocks was just uncomfortable and poorly handled on Ireland's part).
John Idzik intentionally tanked so he could pick his own HC, and to get the immensely popular (at the time) Rex Ryan fired. He cleared a ton of cap without signing anyone of value. No one from the "Idzik 12" draft got a second contract. Truly believe Idzik was there just for a paycheck
Eh disagree. He was absolutely terrible at his job but the reason he got the job in the first place is because the position was so unwanted. Woody Johnson telling prospective GMs they had to keep Rex Ryan for a year probably turned off a lot of candidates. I liked Rex when he was here, but he should've been fired after 2012 season alongside Tannenbaum and the owner should've given the new regime a clean slate to work with. And the cap situation was absolutely terrible so we were going to have to take our lumps regardless. Worst thing that happened in 2013 was the team overperforming with an 8-8 record when it was clearly obvious they weren't good. Regression was inevitable in 2014 and everything fell apart.
Terry Pegula got incredibly lucky with his hires for the Bills. He broke the Sabres and seems to be broke
I know how it’s supposed to be said, but it always mentally scans the same way as Dracula first
LOL. I'm imagining a vampire with dildos for fangs
Hiring McBeane was a good move, not any more lucky than any good hire.
The owner of the Oakland As
Scott Pioli. He really had no business being a GM, but he stood next to Belichek at the right time. Like assistance coaches standing next to a great qb at the right time then get a HC job. He had some hits no doubt, but the draft is just a part of being a GM, and he didn’t do anything else particularly well.
Jack Easterby did have a plan with the Texans and it was just get Nick Caserio by all means. It kind of blew back on him since the Texans got in trouble for tampering and he got fired. But he did get Caserio and Texans fans love the dude.
That was O'Brien really. Jack was buddies with O'Brien and got hired that way. Then the two of them worked to try and get Caserio. Funny enough, those two are long gone but Caserio is still here doing a good job.
The David Culley hire had Easterby's stench all over it (I mean how could you possibly justify hiring a head coach as unqualified as him). Where the Texans are now has much more to do with Caserio than Easterby.
Wasn’t his original plant to hire Josh McCown as HC despite him being only one year removed from playing and with his only experience being an assistant on his son’s high school team?
Yep. Because he was a "man of faith".
Ah yes, the Dayton Moore Qualifications standard. A man of good faith as there’s a drive….
He got fired bc he didnt stay off of Lovie's practice field
Jags? Seems like whenever they have good young players to build around they completely turn around and shit the bed. Owner seems like he's ok with a mediocre team as long as the team is making money but I guess that can be said about most teams
They currently have our previous GM, the one who made our owner get rid of Jim Harbaugh. Idk if Baalke’s been doing his job down in Jacksonville since he’s been there, but I will always begrudge him for his stupid feud with the ‘Baugh.
Baalke has way too much of an ego, or at least when he was with us. But I guess I’m referring more to the owner Khan in regards to the Jags. I believe he’s one of those hands on owners but he’s so bad at it. I’m glad York took a step back after the Jim/Trent fiasco
Khan is as far from hands on as you can get. He completely removes himself from operations and lets the football guys run it, to a fault - which is why he keeps guys around too long.
Baalke created nothing but divisions & cliques in the locker room to undermine Harbaugh. Jed was either too naive or too disinterested to notice what was happening under his nose. Then there was Trent's draft record; bust after bust after bust... too long a list and FFS I'm so glad he's gone. Just feel bad for Jags fans being stuck with him.
Baalke’s been drafting like shit
Baalke literally managed to nuke the 49ers from the inside, not surprised to see what's happening in Jacksonville.
What’s happening in Jacksonville?
Since I don't see him here on mobile, Steve Keim. Completely dogshit at drafting, mediocre in free agency outside of the DeAndre Hopkins swindling of the Texans (but how much of that was actually him being smart and how much of it was Bill O'Brien being very highly regarded), to say nothing of embarrassing the team with his conduct outside of the organization. Thank Christ Michael Bidwill pulled his head out of his ass and cut the losses on him and Kingsbury last off-season.
I was fully convinced Keim was untouchable after Michael Bidwill refused to fire him after his DUI.
But why would someone do this and just coast knowing that they will ultimately get fired if they don't produce? I have never understood this.
Look at the millions of dollars Matt Millen was paid to suck in Detroit because WCF was too loyal to him to fire him (and even gave him an extension and made him one of the highest paid GMs in the NFL during that timeframe). If an owner was continuously rewarding you for poor results like that eventually you'd probably develop an apathetic attitude towards trying to build a winner as well (especially if you know you're already getting paid).
But wouldn't your motivation be to keep the bucks coming in for as long as possible?
If you take a big swing and miss everyone calls for your head regardless. If you build conservatively and can stay above .500 and make the playoffs a time or two, you look competent and get to keep being a multi-millionaire
$$$
But wouldn't your motivation be to keep the bucks coming in for as long as possible?
Matt Millen. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Millen#Detroit\_Lions\_management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Millen#Detroit_Lions_management)
Terry Fontenot. He’s drafted poorly and advised against hiring Bill as the coach. He’s taken a Tight End and a Wide Receiver in the first when they had other issues to deal with, including QB. Then he fixes it with a lucrative deal to a guy who is coming off and then spends a highly valuable pick on his back up. Either that or Arthur Blank is meddling a lot.
>Then he fixes it with a lucrative deal to a guy who is coming off Not only that, they're about to get dinged for tampering because they were in contact with Cousins before free agency officially started.
For sure the FO of the White Sox! Oops sorry wrong sub.
Baalke is a franchise terrorist, and not only managed to banish Jim Harbaugh to the shadow realm (Michigan), but also oversaw the biggest roster collape I've ever seen when literally *everyone* on the team decided to retire in 2015. Now he spends his time drafting obscure D-linemen that sometimes work out, paying his own picks with the 49ers absurd sums to join his little Duvaal D-line project, and wasting a very talented young QB's career.
John Stanton...wait, wrong sport my b
Bob Quinn. Worst GM in Lions history, yes even over Millen.
The Bills is Russ Brandon. He was the President when Ralph was sick/dying/dead and built the team to sell tickets, not win. Signing TO for example, he did well but everyone knew it was just a pit stop for him.
He was a poor GM, but that wasn't his skill set. He was a "nonfootball ops" exec before that, I think. He, and Whaley for that matter, were just inept in that position.
Buddy nix, Doug Whaley, tom Donahoe, marv levy
Whaley and Nix were under Brandon and alongside Marv , so ya. At least those guys were football guys and tried, even though they sucked. That’s different than just worrying about ticket sales.
I forgot Russ Brandon was also president of the sabres too.
Ok just let’s stop. I’m sad.
Bruce Allen
Loved his Dad. Hated him, and his Governor brother.
I mean. Jerry?
Mike Sherman
Mike Brown, Bengals owner used to be the popular answer to this question. It’s nice to not see this anymore.
Tbf who is MB actually stealing paychecks from? Himself lol?
Dave Ziegler
Came here to suggest him. According to his Wiki he’s no longer affiliated with any NFL teams. Last role was SPECIAL ASSISTANT to the GM. So pretty much Dwight Schrute for the Jags.
Pretty much any team mired in mediocrity. Their goals are just to be decent and not get fired, not to be amazing. You gotta take things one step at a time.
I can only speak to my team: Trent Baalke
Pretty much every GM we've had since the 60's. Brad Holmes is the exception.
Tom Flores in Seattle.
Jack Easterby.
Ruston Webster - probably a name only Titans fans know. But a draft/FA record probably only slightly better than Matt Millen.
Ryan Pace got the gig because he had a cool haircut, so I’m going to give him an honorable mention. Not necessarily just collecting a paycheck, but definitely Michael Scott levels of delusion and critical thinking.
A majority of the Tampa bay Buccaneers history
Fired staff from the Chargers 2023/24 season
Easterby didn’t care about winning at all. He cared about absolute control of his fiefdom.
Jack Easterby
I think there's a lot of them that are mainly trying to keep their job as long as possible, which means they're fine winning 8-11 with a team that has no chance of making it past the divisional round. You're not going deep in the playoffs with a mid-grade QB making 30-40 million, and you've immediately put a low ceiling on your team for a raised floor. Seahawks picking up Geno kept them average but there was no way they'd ever be a top 5 team in their conference with him. Same with the Raiders/Saints both paying Derek Carr, Bucs paying Baker (I like him and he's decent, but they'll never contend), Miami is gonna pay Tua a ton even though he's made 1 playoff appearance (and another when injured) and lost both, Daniel Jones with the Giants, Cousins multiple places, The Colts multiple years in a row with aging QB's instead of trying to draft one. If a rookie QB doesn't have playoff success on his rookie contract, what are the chances that changes when he goes from 5% to 15-20% of the cap? Basically none, but every FO will still give them a contract, because they'll keep their job longer than resetting and trying to draft a QB that might be a total bust. A lot of FO's will simply try to make a competent team to keep their job over risking drafting a QB bust and losing their job after 1 year. It's hard to blame a lot of them though cause there's not enough good QB's to go around, and the middle guys keep getting paid only 10-15 mil less than the stars, which is a huge disadvantage.
Tom Telesco is a football terrorist
That’s a tough one. It’s one thing to be incompetent. It’s another to be willfully negligent. Without being in the room, I’d just be stabbing in the dark.
Whoever's been running the Chargers these last few years. I feel sorry for Herbert.
Thomas Dimitrov for the Falcons. My God he was bad but what stands out is signing Todd Gurley AFTER he had been diagnosed with degenerative knee issues.
Anyone named Spanos, but only because they can't get jobs anywhere else but with the family. Think if Eric and Donald Trump Jr. Were handed the keys to an NFL franchise