I agree.
I both hate Deshaun as a horrible person who doesn’t deserve to be in the league, and acknowledge during his Texans days he played QB very well.
During his Texans stint I was watching a game, and he was making incredible play after incredible play. I thought to myself "man, I sure would love to have Deshaun Watson as my quarterback."
And then the fucking monkey paw curled.
As a Texans fan he was good but also he usually beat up on bad teams , we would always always lose to any playoff caliber team except for a couple exceptions , although honestly it always felt like that was because BoB was being outcoached
Yeah, he's a piece of shit, but this is just rewriting reality. If he had kept playing like he had pre holdout, he probably would have ended up a hall of famer. He was a genuinely great QB.
But he liked rape more than football, and now his mental game is destroyed. Sucks to suck.
I hate Watson as a person hust as much as anyone in this thread, but this is an absolute shit take. He was a consensus top 10 QB before the allegations came to light and his contract dispute with the Texans started.
Early Watson feasted on backyard ball with his ability to make people miss and chuck it to a somehow consistently underrated Hopkins.
I never thought his fundamentals or ability to read a defense were that great.
Now it seems like either his body can't do it, or his mind doesn't trust that his body can do it.
Ill agree to this. My biggest issues with Watson as a football player was he held the ball for way too damn long trying to make something out of nothing. Occasionally he hit a highlight but there were a lot of terrible sacks mixed in. He was still really good but he never progressed past the weakness of hero ball.
> My biggest issues with Watson as a football player was he held the ball for way too damn long trying to make something out of nothing
Would you say that the fix to this is to throw it away to someone even if they probably won't be able to catch it, thus making them have a high rate of incompletions due to inaccuracy.
I always thought he was like a gunslinging version of Russell Wilson. And Russ himself is someone who has a much better statline than his actual contribution.
The years where Russ was an MVP candidate he never had the team around him or a great record for a vote. Those teams where he had an o-line that was paid in a couple of large pizzas and two sides of wings, I don’t think there was a more impactful player than him.
Just no one is going to give the mvp to a QB who dragged a team to 9-7
As one of the world's largest Russell Wilson haters, I can confirm this. He carried that offense on his back for a long time. Even years where he had a good team, so often he'd somehow escape a sack and run or throw for a first down. This guy is in my nightmares as a Niners fan.
Early Watson is what Justin Fields hoped he could become.
Obviously it’s not as simple as that, but Watson played hero ball, made some fucking insane plays, and just wanted to compete and never gave up. That Texans team was also very easy to root for between Hopkins, Watson coming back from injury his rookie year, and JJ Watt a year after all of his fundraising for Houston culminating in the man of the year award.
Houston had been a punching bag for awhile and they seemed like they were trending is a great direction
We owe a large part of our current success and hype to that trade. God bless the Cleveland Browns for being morally depraved enough to make that happen and God bless Caserio for not budging on the trade value.
I'll be honest, I've given out boilerplate NDAs to some business partners before. Just people who weren't in a position to have an NDA on hand, and they knew I would, and they trusted our partnership enough to ask for my help.
I never thought anything of it, never had malice on either side, just trying to help someone out. Could be the same here on the Texans side.
And the hotel room where it’s happening. Surely nothing fishy is going on when a player needs the team hotel for “massages” with different massage therapist that literally no other player is doing. Nope don’t look into that. Lalalalala I can’t hear you.
And who gives NDAs for massage therapist ? Gotten plenty and never was that a thing. But I get it. Make excuses for the shitty team.
I mean, you can make the case the team knew he was hiring women for sex and aided and abetted that. I’m not sure you can provide any evidence they knew or suspected he was sexually assaulting them. And that seems like a pretty significant difference to me.
The Texans provided the rooms to Watson and other Texans players/staff as a perk. It was more of a country club/resort than a hotel, complete with a gym, spa, etc. and is frequented by a ton of rich Houstonians.
They didn't provide the rooms "for massages." They provided a membership to the club and Watson scheduled the massages, typically by messaging random independent masseuses on Instagram.
They didn't provide NDAs for massage therapists. The head of security provided a single NDA when Watson requested it for when a woman posted on Instagram that she was going to "expose him." Watson re-used it for all of the massage therapists.
That was all in the Washington Post investigation that revealed most of what we know about the situation. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the Texans and how they handled this whole situation, but at least get the facts right when doing it.
>Make excuses for the shitty team.
you sound incredibly salty; you didn't read the whole story and just want to try to dunk a divison rival but I get it; I would be upset too if I choked a division lead away, I just paid a QB who was supposed to be generational but instead has the same statlines as Gardner Minshew does through 50 games, and going to be probably 2nd or 3rd in the division going forward
Good news for you, [you don't have to imagine it](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/21753/deshaun-watson).
Bad news, it's only 3 more years!
Good news, the huge cap hits actually only start this season.
The complete cowardice of that still really bothers me. If you’re an old pos, and say this is the best shot for a championship before you die - I can get that. I’d think it’s shitty, I’d hope you lose, but I get it. To parade wives, and daughters out as scapegoats is just cowardice. Stand by your decision.
Funny thing is there are backups better than 2022 and 2023 Watson.
Bro has barely 200 total ypg and 16 total TDs in 12 starts.
Fields, Howell, aand a couple other backups clear those numbers.
Dude walked off a cliff. Went from a consensus Top 10 QB in many peoples eyes, was taken to court for SA and checked out. Reputation was ruined, so checked out once he got his bag.
Imagine being good enough at something that you can be under investigation for 20+ sexual assaults and still get 240 million fully guaranteed as long as you can stay out of trouble for 5 years. You can even be ass and it wont affect the cash.
Imagine being not good enough at something, but still getting $240m guaranteed
I’m not trying to take away from what DeShaun was, but he’s not worth the contract and has since been severely underwhelming by comparison.
It was close to two years on the couch by the time he actually played for the Browns due to the suspension. He has played a grand total of 12 NFL games since the 2020 season ended
Winston is the better QB but I doubt they start him since they cant do anything about Watsons contract
Slander is a making a false statement that damages someone reputation. Not only is this facts I don't think you could say anything ruin Watsons reputation.
I'm just rejoicing in the fact that this spectacularly backfired and most likely stopped the human-garbage that is Haslam from being in serious contention to win a ring.
Imagine this team but with 3 extra first round picks, Kirk Cousins and like 10 million extra in cap space. And all Haslam had to do was say 'You know what I'm just not gonna go for the serial sex offender'
It's a chicken and the egg type logical loop. If Haslem didn't deserve to be smited, God might not smite the Browns... But if Haslem wasn't the type of awful human who deserves to be smited he wouldn't have ever traded for the rapist in the first place.
Browns fans spent years getting dunked on by everyone else.
They were good for like 1 season, and become unbearable pretty much immediately, and now many of them defend a dude who raped dozens of women.
I hope they suck for another 50 years.
Take his best game (because that’s the only one that matters) and multiply it by 17 (because it’s obviously repeatable). That’s gonna be his stat line. This analysis brought to you by the smartest ~~rapist~~ Watson fan
Remember Mayfield in Carolina? He was still suffering from his bad shoulder, and looked terrible.
I was and still am a Baker stan, but I am also honest enough to say that the dude needed at least a year of rest to recover, but neither he nor the Browns were willing to allow it.
Someone in this subreddit once legitimately told me “Ok yeah he’s a rapist but can we not talk purely from a football perspective for a second?”
Fuck no we can’t lmao.
"Minimum 175 attempts"
Trevor Siemian only had 153 pass attempts though, why's he on the list? Daniel Jones, Jimmy G, and Easton Stick also don't meet that threshold.
Honestly this comment should be higher. Kinda makes you question the numbers, but then the stat itself is a pretty subjective so hard to even check that.
Yeah it’s a weird stat to prove because it can subjective on what is inaccurate but Watson is ass cheeks. Unfortunately your franchise love to punish it fans so you got to hope he can somehow revive his career but at this point he doesn’t even look interested in football.
Unironically, as a Seahawks fan I saw the headline and figured Geno would be one of the lower rates. The ball goes where he wants it... sometimes he should want it to go somewhere else, sometimes he is throwing it in the dirt because of the blocking and play design, but he doesn't miss that often.
Geno Smith is severely underrated at the moment. He is very clearly above the Dalton line (or whatever modern day equivalent you wanna use). He is, legit, a good QB.
Yep. IMO we'll probably end up extending him if he performs well in Grubb's offense. We have enough talent around Geno to make a run if the Defense and OL come together.
I agree. Fans give Goff and Baker huge props for reinventing themselves with other teams. Geno is a perfect example of this as well. Geno was a laughing stock with the Jets. I only remember when that teammate punched him and broke his jaw. Then we had that [Geno with a crooked jaw meme.](https://imgur.com/new-york-jet-geno-smith-had-his-jaw-broken-today-im-suggesting-this-be-his-new-profile-picture-until-he-returns-CJeCnSy)
Edit: Added the the meme
Ik Enkempali, who was a 6 rnd draft pick punched Geno in a dispute over 500 bucks.
Geno also road the bench as a back up on both Giants as well as the Chargers before again riding the bench for a few years in Seattle.
Geno deciding to back up Rivers, Eli and Russell was a really underrated career move. There's no question he learned a lot from those three (very different) near-HoF QBs.
And he didn't look particularly great for us in 2021 when he came in after Russell's finger injury. I have to admit, I wasn't looking forward to the 2022 season after he was named the starter.
We have a fucking steal in Geno. Yeah, he struggled last year, but our entire OL died week one, and Geno got hurt week four. Analytics showed he was still a pretty efficient QB all things considered, and I can't point to any game he lost us.
With Grubb as OC (who was my hope for the Seahawks to hire the moment DeBoer left for Alabama) I have a lot of confidence Geno's play style will slot right into the type of offense we will run this year.
The Dalton line was never meant to be an indicator of average. It was supposed to be the worst qb you are ok calling a franchise qb. If you are above it then you are a franchise qb, if not you are likely a journeyman/bridge qb or too young to tell
Hot take, but if this doesn’t feel representative of anything, it’s probably because this is an opinion masquerading as a statistic. A lot of that in NFL analysis these days.
The biggest problem with NFL analysis is people thinking one stat is supposed to represent everything. This is one stat that represents one small factor. That's it.
It's not a grandiose point.
It's entirely possible that 36.7% of Lamar's incompletions were do to inaccurate passes while at the same time he doesn't have a lot of incompletions (of the 34 QBs with 200+ Att, Lamar was 19th/34 in number of incompletions).
This is only looking at the incompletions themselves.
it doesn't have to. It's just one stat.
The biggest flaw with analytics is that so many people forget stats don't tell you how to think. You have to apply them to context.
The second biggest flaw is the rhetoric and semantics, which I think is what that commenter was trying to point out.
This isn't a statistic with tangible parameters, which by itself is pretty common and I think would fall mostly under your point.... but more importantly it's a statistic without any explicit definition in how it was recorded.
It literally is just an opinion, because there's no accompanied methodology nor inherently associated definition. This isn't a "stat" that you can cite without saying how exactly you're citing it.
It's an opinion ranking.
I would argue the biggest flaw is looking at one stat line in isolation. Analytics is powerful for the ability to take hundreds of stats and hundreds of thousands of data points to make a decision. Pulling one row doesnt tell you very much
Even a deep pool of analytics doesn't make a decision for you. You still have to apply the data to your context.
* For example on 3rd & 2 from the opponent 47
* you can pool every 3rd &2 run play in the last 10 seasons, see the success rate, see the win% increase if successful, the opponent win% if unsuccessful. Etc.
* But you still have to know your team, know their team, know the flow of the current game, etc.
* Then apply that data to your situation.
Yea I’ve always wondered why stats like your example never talk about the O Lines that were successful and O Lines that were not.
Are most of the successful conversions due to having a beef ass O Line dominating the trenches? Probably
So if your O Line isn’t good, even if the numbers say to go, it’s a terrible decision for your specific team.
Obvious example I know, just using it to make a point of how much some of these analytics aren’t taking into account.
This is exactly the point. The "advanced metric" crowd gets a free pass even though there's a consistent problem with random people on couches watching game film without context is pretty clearly not a good way to make a statistic.
In this particular instance, you are also using a wildly inappropriate measurement (percentage of incompletions) that makes the problem even worse. NFL advanced metrics are largely junk science. Opinions with more steps.
Right. I was looking at it surprised by some of the names on it. And they're not far behind Watson. It's fun to poke at it because, "lol Watson is bad at football" but Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson, CJ Stroud, Trevor Lawrence... They're not far behind.
Why don't you take a poll of each of those player's relevant fan bases and see how many want to move on from them.
Per PFF, Lamar Jackson had the 9th best adjusted completion rate in the league.
Tyrod Taylor had the 6th best CPOE.
I agree, I'm just not sure what Sharp thinks this means.
Lamar had 150 incomplete passes and 22 throwaways.
So 128 * .367 = 47, 47 / 16 = 2.9
Lamar had 2.9 incompletions per game that were due to inaccurate throws lol. That seems like a "who fucking cares" metric.
I didn't point out what it means. I just presented the exact same data in a different way that is IMO easier to contextualize.
I don't think it *means* anything.
2.9 off-target passes per game is 1 more than, say, Geno Smith or Patrick Mahomes, and that 1 pass could be the difference between winning and losing a tight game.
But this stat isn't showing that Lamar had 2.9 off-target passes per game and Mahomes had 1 fewer.
Per PFR charting Lamar had 73 bad throws last season and Mahomes had 75.
but that's more on the receiver.
If the question is 'was it a bad throw' context of 'but it was caught' doesn't change the answer of 'yes it was a bad throw'
It’s weird cuz people praise CJ for the deep ball but this statistic reminded me that he actually missed a good amount of deep throws or had underthrown completions on deep passes. One- off statistics definitely don’t tell the story of a season
I'm a Texans fan so I watched a lot of his games. I noticed he was really good at throwing the ball away if he didn't like what he saw. A lot of times he would just sail it out of bounds on purpose. Maybe I'm biased and saw what I wanted, but it sure looked like it was intentional, remember, he set the rookie record for attempts without an INT
> this is a bs statistic.
this is true if you don't understand how to interpret statistics and just lazily assign a binary good/bad to players based one on singular piece of information like this stat.
i’m pretty sure it’s because Riddler was pretty noticeably inaccurate. to see him end up where he did is a surprise. there have been other comments pointing out flaws with this stat, namely that it’s claimed to have a 175 attempt threshold yet has multiple players below that threshold. let’s drop the snark
Are we going to accept this Stat is accurate to shit on Watson, while also admitting the rest are in a similar tier of inaccuracy as watson, or will we not?
I'm interested to see how this one turns out
Edit: a word
im curious what you mean by "the rest are in a similar tier of inaccuracy". comparing Watson (43%) to Pickett (10th from the bottom at 35%) is a pretty significant difference, an 8% difference is big. and that's not comparing him to players ranked well on this list, just someone who is almost out of the bottom ten.
Na this list checks out pretty well. The only QB's that *feel* like they don't belong that low on the list are Love and Stroud. Love may have gotten hot late but he was very innaccurate early when he wasn't gelling with his receivers, and while Stroud was awesome he had some struggles expected of a rookie QB here and there.
So yes, lets please keep shitting on Watson.
Kinda wild to me that Zach is not higher up on this list, but clearly there isn’t much correlation between this stat and the ultimate results the QBs are putting out.
2022 solidified his reputation of being inaccurate because he had the yips or whatever but it really wasn’t an issue last year. Whatever you want to say about Zach his ability to throw the ball is top tier
I'm still curious to see if Zach could turn it around with an oline that could actually block and comptent recievers. Dude was on the Jets and they made Flacco look like trash
Calculated as:
> sum of incompletions due to inaccurately charted passes (overthrows, underthrows, too far in front or behind receiver) / all incompletions
This statistic is useful for each individual QB to know if practicing accuracy is the best way to improve their completion percentage. For any other utility, it's important to take into context what their completion percentage is, and the context of their pass attempts (under-pressure, throw-aways, amazing receivers who catch inaccurate passes anyways, depth of pass, etc.)
It does not reflect whether a QB throws a lot of inaccurate passes. To exaggerate the point, consider a QB X, who has thrown one incompletion all year, and it was due to an inaccurate pass. Meanwhile, QB Y has thrown 200 incompletions in a year, and 100 of them were due to inaccuracy. So, QB X has a "rate of incompletions due to inaccurate passes" of 100%, while QB Y is 50%.
The brilliant thing about posting statistics like these as journalism, is that the general public will misinterpret it and come to falty, but spicy conclusions, on their own. Statistics are not useful, and are sometimes harmful, without correct interpretation. Good journalism would have applied the statistic and helped the readers interpret it.
What a lot of these stats show is that a lot more than pure accuracy goes into playing QB.
Not that there isn't some useful info here, and you'll probably never find true tier 1 guys in the bottom 10 (Lamar being the point of argument here, though he hasn't been consistently tier 1.)
Air Yards per attempt ...
Among the highest in the league:
Watson: 9.2
CJ Stroud: 9.1
Tyrod Taylor: 8.9
Lamar Jackson: 8.7
Jordan Love: 8.5
And then, among the lowest in the league:
Jake Browning: 6.3
Patrick Mahomes: 6.6
Russell Wilson: 7.0
Jared Goff: 7.0
🤔
What I mean is that it may be indication that he's not true tier-1 going forward. Also, fwiw, his EPA and EPA/play were not indicative of him being true tier 1, and any case for his MVP (which I do consider at least somewhat valid cases) has to be based on the success of the Ravens' offense overall.
I'm not 100% if that logic always holds up, since I know at one point Mahomes was average in this. I don't know if he was ever bottom 10 though.
This stat is kinda of a bs things as it is too subjective. I mean you don’t need to use this stat to prove Watson sucks. Just put up his stat line for the games he played this year. Then put on the film. Dude is washed and the browns are paid him 240M. He doesn’t even look interested in football anymore. I don’t even understand how the browns organization has been able to keep fans interested. I will give browns fans credit they’re dedicated if anything
For Deshaun Watson to have that many inaccurate passes, yet get paid so much...I just can't make sense of it. I get that he had some great years, but I don't think any of those years justify a $240 million contract.
And that's to say nothing about his off-the-field issues.
Deshaun's covid year statline is made even crazier by fact his career since looks like a cliff.
Even when he was statistically good it's because he was a garbage time merchant. Always been overrated
This is just wrong. Disclaimer: rapists are bad
I agree. I both hate Deshaun as a horrible person who doesn’t deserve to be in the league, and acknowledge during his Texans days he played QB very well.
During his Texans stint I was watching a game, and he was making incredible play after incredible play. I thought to myself "man, I sure would love to have Deshaun Watson as my quarterback." And then the fucking monkey paw curled.
I heard he was the best third string safety the team ever had as well.
As a Texans fan he was good but also he usually beat up on bad teams , we would always always lose to any playoff caliber team except for a couple exceptions , although honestly it always felt like that was because BoB was being outcoached
Plus the defense was so awful back then that no lead was safe.
> we would always always lose to any playoff caliber team except for a couple exceptions A QB alone can't beat a playoff team.
Yeah, he's a piece of shit, but this is just rewriting reality. If he had kept playing like he had pre holdout, he probably would have ended up a hall of famer. He was a genuinely great QB. But he liked rape more than football, and now his mental game is destroyed. Sucks to suck.
Eh, garbage time merchant is going too far but he was overrated. He was never the top 5 guy people talked about him as
He wasn’t even *accused* of rape. He was facing misdemeanor charges and they elected not to pursue them.
I hate the rapist as much as the next guy but some of those Texans teams were dogshit. They had NINE takeaways for all of 2020 lmao
I hate Watson as a person hust as much as anyone in this thread, but this is an absolute shit take. He was a consensus top 10 QB before the allegations came to light and his contract dispute with the Texans started.
Early Watson feasted on backyard ball with his ability to make people miss and chuck it to a somehow consistently underrated Hopkins. I never thought his fundamentals or ability to read a defense were that great. Now it seems like either his body can't do it, or his mind doesn't trust that his body can do it.
Ill agree to this. My biggest issues with Watson as a football player was he held the ball for way too damn long trying to make something out of nothing. Occasionally he hit a highlight but there were a lot of terrible sacks mixed in. He was still really good but he never progressed past the weakness of hero ball.
> My biggest issues with Watson as a football player was he held the ball for way too damn long trying to make something out of nothing Would you say that the fix to this is to throw it away to someone even if they probably won't be able to catch it, thus making them have a high rate of incompletions due to inaccuracy.
I always thought he was like a gunslinging version of Russell Wilson. And Russ himself is someone who has a much better statline than his actual contribution.
People dog on Russell so much but he was a legit MVP candidate/QB anyone would want for a few years.
The years where Russ was an MVP candidate he never had the team around him or a great record for a vote. Those teams where he had an o-line that was paid in a couple of large pizzas and two sides of wings, I don’t think there was a more impactful player than him. Just no one is going to give the mvp to a QB who dragged a team to 9-7
As one of the world's largest Russell Wilson haters, I can confirm this. He carried that offense on his back for a long time. Even years where he had a good team, so often he'd somehow escape a sack and run or throw for a first down. This guy is in my nightmares as a Niners fan.
> Russell Wilson. Russ was better than DeShaun, might still be, we will see this year.
Early Watson is what Justin Fields hoped he could become. Obviously it’s not as simple as that, but Watson played hero ball, made some fucking insane plays, and just wanted to compete and never gave up. That Texans team was also very easy to root for between Hopkins, Watson coming back from injury his rookie year, and JJ Watt a year after all of his fundraising for Houston culminating in the man of the year award. Houston had been a punching bag for awhile and they seemed like they were trending is a great direction
Even the season that people thought he was top 5 or whatever his team was 4-12. Trash.
People said that for years about Stafford.
I don't know why you have so many nay sayers on this point. It's a fact. The dude never put up stratospheric numbers in a close game, that's a fact.
Am i the only one who can’t understand this comment lol
240m guaranteed lmfao
The gift that keeps on giving to everyone other than Browns fans.
We owe a large part of our current success and hype to that trade. God bless the Cleveland Browns for being morally depraved enough to make that happen and God bless Caserio for not budging on the trade value.
And let’s all take this time to remember the Texans were sued with Watson for helping him do those terrible acts.
Yep don't provide NDAs for your players, hope no one else is doing that.
I'll be honest, I've given out boilerplate NDAs to some business partners before. Just people who weren't in a position to have an NDA on hand, and they knew I would, and they trusted our partnership enough to ask for my help. I never thought anything of it, never had malice on either side, just trying to help someone out. Could be the same here on the Texans side.
And the hotel room where it’s happening. Surely nothing fishy is going on when a player needs the team hotel for “massages” with different massage therapist that literally no other player is doing. Nope don’t look into that. Lalalalala I can’t hear you. And who gives NDAs for massage therapist ? Gotten plenty and never was that a thing. But I get it. Make excuses for the shitty team.
I mean, you can make the case the team knew he was hiring women for sex and aided and abetted that. I’m not sure you can provide any evidence they knew or suspected he was sexually assaulting them. And that seems like a pretty significant difference to me.
The Texans provided the rooms to Watson and other Texans players/staff as a perk. It was more of a country club/resort than a hotel, complete with a gym, spa, etc. and is frequented by a ton of rich Houstonians. They didn't provide the rooms "for massages." They provided a membership to the club and Watson scheduled the massages, typically by messaging random independent masseuses on Instagram. They didn't provide NDAs for massage therapists. The head of security provided a single NDA when Watson requested it for when a woman posted on Instagram that she was going to "expose him." Watson re-used it for all of the massage therapists. That was all in the Washington Post investigation that revealed most of what we know about the situation. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the Texans and how they handled this whole situation, but at least get the facts right when doing it.
>Make excuses for the shitty team. you sound incredibly salty; you didn't read the whole story and just want to try to dunk a divison rival but I get it; I would be upset too if I choked a division lead away, I just paid a QB who was supposed to be generational but instead has the same statlines as Gardner Minshew does through 50 games, and going to be probably 2nd or 3rd in the division going forward
Damn bro you really had to do it to us
Nah we moved on to the "Y'all look so different" stage. Life comes at you fast in the NFL
You get what you fuckin deserve
Imagine how good the Browns would be right now without all that cap space wasted on Watson and with all the picks they gave up.
I prefer not to imagine that. Instead I imagine the Browns giving Watson a record-breaking contract extension.
Good news for you, [you don't have to imagine it](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/21753/deshaun-watson). Bad news, it's only 3 more years! Good news, the huge cap hits actually only start this season.
No new money though :(
Amen
Sold their soul for the 27th best QB
But the owner's daughter apparently said it was ok.
Yeah this is 100% on her. She really dropped the ball
Can we nationalize the NFL yet? I don't think this "Owner" thing is working.
The complete cowardice of that still really bothers me. If you’re an old pos, and say this is the best shot for a championship before you die - I can get that. I’d think it’s shitty, I’d hope you lose, but I get it. To parade wives, and daughters out as scapegoats is just cowardice. Stand by your decision.
Funny thing is there are backups better than 2022 and 2023 Watson. Bro has barely 200 total ypg and 16 total TDs in 12 starts. Fields, Howell, aand a couple other backups clear those numbers.
Woah woah woah… 230mil*
Dude walked off a cliff. Went from a consensus Top 10 QB in many peoples eyes, was taken to court for SA and checked out. Reputation was ruined, so checked out once he got his bag.
Imagine being good enough at something that you can be under investigation for 20+ sexual assaults and still get 240 million fully guaranteed as long as you can stay out of trouble for 5 years. You can even be ass and it wont affect the cash.
Imagine being not good enough at something, but still getting $240m guaranteed I’m not trying to take away from what DeShaun was, but he’s not worth the contract and has since been severely underwhelming by comparison.
I was amazed at the number of people who thought he would just hop off the couch after not playing for over a year and still be top 10.
Rogers totally will though!
I am very curious to see how Week 1 goes this time with A-a-ron visiting the Field of Jeans. P.S. Thanks for letting us sign Leonard Floyd <3
Hopefully he provides you with great joy in the future!
Floyd has an opportunity to do the funniest thing.
It was close to two years on the couch by the time he actually played for the Browns due to the suspension. He has played a grand total of 12 NFL games since the 2020 season ended Winston is the better QB but I doubt they start him since they cant do anything about Watsons contract
Wake up babe, new Deshaun Watson slander just dropped. Slip a thumb in my ass
Slander is a making a false statement that damages someone reputation. Not only is this facts I don't think you could say anything ruin Watsons reputation.
I mean, he could always be worse, at least he hasn't murdered someone or something...?
Yet
In the Browns' defense, they assumed he'd be suspended for a year and lose out on $1m of that.
They specifically structured his deal to ensure he would lose a minimum amount of money from the suspension.
I remember saints fans wanting to trade for him lmao.
CMAO
...Chili My Ass Off?
Factory of sadness
Since he's bad at football now, can we talk about the rapes?
Careful browns fans will tell you to get over it by now
I'm just rejoicing in the fact that this spectacularly backfired and most likely stopped the human-garbage that is Haslam from being in serious contention to win a ring.
It's incredible how poorly this went for the Browns.
Imagine this team but with 3 extra first round picks, Kirk Cousins and like 10 million extra in cap space. And all Haslam had to do was say 'You know what I'm just not gonna go for the serial sex offender'
Imagine how good they could be with a middle tier QB like Baker Mayfield!
They should trade Tampa Watson and 3 first rounders for Baker.
> Tampa Watson hissssss
Tampa bay baker woulda had them atleast in AFC champ game. But tampa bay baker also got a lot of help from coaches of which the Browns do not provide.
Wait, you mean Baker "Literal Adult" Mayfield?
I truthfully think they'd be in an equally terrible situation. God smites the Browns, and sometimes Jimmy beats him to the punch.
It's a chicken and the egg type logical loop. If Haslem didn't deserve to be smited, God might not smite the Browns... But if Haslem wasn't the type of awful human who deserves to be smited he wouldn't have ever traded for the rapist in the first place.
… this is true.
To be fair, it's the Browns. Poorly is the default
I hate him so much. I hate that the nfl let him in. I hate that he gave this lazy-eyed asshole 250 mil.
Browns and Watson fans will say for another year "these haters are not going to be happy next year"
Sounds like me in 2005 “Just wait til next year”
In 2005 I was still upset about the Robert Gallery pick By 2007 I was even more upset than I was in 2005
That's been Browns fans since 1999.
Not *every* Browns fan are delusional, idiotic, pieces of shit.
They're technically correct. I hate them and I am also not happy! But I'm an Eagles fan, and that's just my base setting.
Browns fans spent years getting dunked on by everyone else. They were good for like 1 season, and become unbearable pretty much immediately, and now many of them defend a dude who raped dozens of women. I hope they suck for another 50 years.
Dude you can’t even say he was bad last year. I said that and provided the stats and a browns still said he wasn’t bad. And made out like he was Brady
If you remove the outliers and inflate his stats, he's basically Mahomes.
Take his best game (because that’s the only one that matters) and multiply it by 17 (because it’s obviously repeatable). That’s gonna be his stat line. This analysis brought to you by the smartest ~~rapist~~ Watson fan
This take is so stupid. The mass majority of Browns fans fucking hate Watson, we can't help the fact the the owner of our team is a piece of shit.
That wasn't the case when people thought he was going to be an upgrade from Mayfield
Remember Mayfield in Carolina? He was still suffering from his bad shoulder, and looked terrible. I was and still am a Baker stan, but I am also honest enough to say that the dude needed at least a year of rest to recover, but neither he nor the Browns were willing to allow it.
Yea now you guys do. Only because he’s bad. Y’all were defending him before
Yep, you're right, every single Browns fan agreed in lockstep with this decision.
Go take a peak at my post history. You chucklehead. That's like me saying all Lions fans are idiots because of this exchange. Good grief.
I never stopped
Someone in this subreddit once legitimately told me “Ok yeah he’s a rapist but can we not talk purely from a football perspective for a second?” Fuck no we can’t lmao.
From a purely football perspective, that subpar quarterback is still a serial rapist off the field.
Pertaining to football I’m not counting him out, he’s only 28 and has skills. Won’t shock me unfortunately if he puts together a good season
Idk not playing for ~3 years during a time when you should ideally be making good strides in your play is gonna take a toll.
"Minimum 175 attempts" Trevor Siemian only had 153 pass attempts though, why's he on the list? Daniel Jones, Jimmy G, and Easton Stick also don't meet that threshold.
Honestly this comment should be higher. Kinda makes you question the numbers, but then the stat itself is a pretty subjective so hard to even check that.
It’s Sharp, I’m questioning anything he posts.
fluffing the data. Poor Trevor.
Yeah it’s a weird stat to prove because it can subjective on what is inaccurate but Watson is ass cheeks. Unfortunately your franchise love to punish it fans so you got to hope he can somehow revive his career but at this point he doesn’t even look interested in football.
Geno Smith is the best as I've always said.
Unironically, as a Seahawks fan I saw the headline and figured Geno would be one of the lower rates. The ball goes where he wants it... sometimes he should want it to go somewhere else, sometimes he is throwing it in the dirt because of the blocking and play design, but he doesn't miss that often.
Geno Smith is severely underrated at the moment. He is very clearly above the Dalton line (or whatever modern day equivalent you wanna use). He is, legit, a good QB.
And importantly is on a very affordable deal by current NFL standards.
Yep. IMO we'll probably end up extending him if he performs well in Grubb's offense. We have enough talent around Geno to make a run if the Defense and OL come together.
I agree. Fans give Goff and Baker huge props for reinventing themselves with other teams. Geno is a perfect example of this as well. Geno was a laughing stock with the Jets. I only remember when that teammate punched him and broke his jaw. Then we had that [Geno with a crooked jaw meme.](https://imgur.com/new-york-jet-geno-smith-had-his-jaw-broken-today-im-suggesting-this-be-his-new-profile-picture-until-he-returns-CJeCnSy) Edit: Added the the meme
Ik Enkempali, who was a 6 rnd draft pick punched Geno in a dispute over 500 bucks. Geno also road the bench as a back up on both Giants as well as the Chargers before again riding the bench for a few years in Seattle.
Geno deciding to back up Rivers, Eli and Russell was a really underrated career move. There's no question he learned a lot from those three (very different) near-HoF QBs.
Yea that's a great point!
And he didn't look particularly great for us in 2021 when he came in after Russell's finger injury. I have to admit, I wasn't looking forward to the 2022 season after he was named the starter.
What? Geno played really well in 2021 when he was in for Russ. People were unhappy that Russ rushed back when we were managing fine without him.
We have a fucking steal in Geno. Yeah, he struggled last year, but our entire OL died week one, and Geno got hurt week four. Analytics showed he was still a pretty efficient QB all things considered, and I can't point to any game he lost us. With Grubb as OC (who was my hope for the Seahawks to hire the moment DeBoer left for Alabama) I have a lot of confidence Geno's play style will slot right into the type of offense we will run this year.
The Dalton line was never meant to be an indicator of average. It was supposed to be the worst qb you are ok calling a franchise qb. If you are above it then you are a franchise qb, if not you are likely a journeyman/bridge qb or too young to tell
I know. Geno Smith is above the Dalton line.
The current equivalent is the Carr Bar. Good enough to keep you from drafting top 5, not good enough to put you in contention for anything.
Geno Smith is above the Carr bar
Finally, someone who understands. He has his issues for sure, but he's a solid QB.
Hot take, but if this doesn’t feel representative of anything, it’s probably because this is an opinion masquerading as a statistic. A lot of that in NFL analysis these days.
The biggest problem with NFL analysis is people thinking one stat is supposed to represent everything. This is one stat that represents one small factor. That's it. It's not a grandiose point. It's entirely possible that 36.7% of Lamar's incompletions were do to inaccurate passes while at the same time he doesn't have a lot of incompletions (of the 34 QBs with 200+ Att, Lamar was 19th/34 in number of incompletions). This is only looking at the incompletions themselves.
It also doesn't really say a whole lot since an inaccurate pass could be a QB throwing to the wrong spot or a reciever running a route wrong.
it doesn't have to. It's just one stat. The biggest flaw with analytics is that so many people forget stats don't tell you how to think. You have to apply them to context.
The second biggest flaw is the rhetoric and semantics, which I think is what that commenter was trying to point out. This isn't a statistic with tangible parameters, which by itself is pretty common and I think would fall mostly under your point.... but more importantly it's a statistic without any explicit definition in how it was recorded. It literally is just an opinion, because there's no accompanied methodology nor inherently associated definition. This isn't a "stat" that you can cite without saying how exactly you're citing it. It's an opinion ranking.
I would argue the biggest flaw is looking at one stat line in isolation. Analytics is powerful for the ability to take hundreds of stats and hundreds of thousands of data points to make a decision. Pulling one row doesnt tell you very much
Even a deep pool of analytics doesn't make a decision for you. You still have to apply the data to your context. * For example on 3rd & 2 from the opponent 47 * you can pool every 3rd &2 run play in the last 10 seasons, see the success rate, see the win% increase if successful, the opponent win% if unsuccessful. Etc. * But you still have to know your team, know their team, know the flow of the current game, etc. * Then apply that data to your situation.
Yea I’ve always wondered why stats like your example never talk about the O Lines that were successful and O Lines that were not. Are most of the successful conversions due to having a beef ass O Line dominating the trenches? Probably So if your O Line isn’t good, even if the numbers say to go, it’s a terrible decision for your specific team. Obvious example I know, just using it to make a point of how much some of these analytics aren’t taking into account.
This is exactly the point. The "advanced metric" crowd gets a free pass even though there's a consistent problem with random people on couches watching game film without context is pretty clearly not a good way to make a statistic. In this particular instance, you are also using a wildly inappropriate measurement (percentage of incompletions) that makes the problem even worse. NFL advanced metrics are largely junk science. Opinions with more steps.
Right. I was looking at it surprised by some of the names on it. And they're not far behind Watson. It's fun to poke at it because, "lol Watson is bad at football" but Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson, CJ Stroud, Trevor Lawrence... They're not far behind. Why don't you take a poll of each of those player's relevant fan bases and see how many want to move on from them.
I disagree with this take because this statistic says Geno is a goddamn sniper and your take doesn’t fit my narrative.
Per PFF, Lamar Jackson had the 9th best adjusted completion rate in the league. Tyrod Taylor had the 6th best CPOE. I agree, I'm just not sure what Sharp thinks this means. Lamar had 150 incomplete passes and 22 throwaways. So 128 * .367 = 47, 47 / 16 = 2.9 Lamar had 2.9 incompletions per game that were due to inaccurate throws lol. That seems like a "who fucking cares" metric.
He thinks it means people will give him attention and think he's relevant.
But you just pointed to what it means. The rest of your comment is trying to think Sharpe is making some grandiose hot take that he isn't.
Sharpe is like the king of hot takes and attempting to use a stat to back it up. He’s terrible
I didn't point out what it means. I just presented the exact same data in a different way that is IMO easier to contextualize. I don't think it *means* anything.
2.9 off-target passes per game is 1 more than, say, Geno Smith or Patrick Mahomes, and that 1 pass could be the difference between winning and losing a tight game.
But this stat isn't showing that Lamar had 2.9 off-target passes per game and Mahomes had 1 fewer. Per PFR charting Lamar had 73 bad throws last season and Mahomes had 75.
A bad throw can still be a completion though so you need to know the outcome of those throws.
but that's more on the receiver. If the question is 'was it a bad throw' context of 'but it was caught' doesn't change the answer of 'yes it was a bad throw'
Yeah, it feels like a dumb stat. I could go 18 for 20, have 1 of my incompletions due to inaccuracy, and I’d lead this category at 50%.
Yeah especially since incompletions due to bad decisions aren’t like any better than bad accuracy
It’s weird cuz people praise CJ for the deep ball but this statistic reminded me that he actually missed a good amount of deep throws or had underthrown completions on deep passes. One- off statistics definitely don’t tell the story of a season
I would usually agree but I’ll take any stat that makes fun of that bag of shit Watson
Are you trying to imply Jake Browning and Geno Smith aren’t the best QBs
Yeah this is one of those stats where you're not really sure what exactly it means.
*cough* PFF Grades *cough*
r/NFL is becoming self-aware. Wow.
If CJ Stroud is the 8th most inaccurate QB on your list, something’s wrong with your stat.
I'm a Texans fan so I watched a lot of his games. I noticed he was really good at throwing the ball away if he didn't like what he saw. A lot of times he would just sail it out of bounds on purpose. Maybe I'm biased and saw what I wanted, but it sure looked like it was intentional, remember, he set the rookie record for attempts without an INT
Ridder being so low tells us all this is a bs statistic.
Ridder was too busy fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions to worry about incompletions
> this is a bs statistic. this is true if you don't understand how to interpret statistics and just lazily assign a binary good/bad to players based one on singular piece of information like this stat.
i’m pretty sure it’s because Riddler was pretty noticeably inaccurate. to see him end up where he did is a surprise. there have been other comments pointing out flaws with this stat, namely that it’s claimed to have a 175 attempt threshold yet has multiple players below that threshold. let’s drop the snark
Maybe we should pay Geno $60M.
Are we going to accept this Stat is accurate to shit on Watson, while also admitting the rest are in a similar tier of inaccuracy as watson, or will we not? I'm interested to see how this one turns out Edit: a word
This clearly just shows how elite Browning is IMO
Browning has about as many career starts as Watson has in CLE so they’re directly comparable.
This fits with my narrative so I shall accept this as gospel
QB controversy in Cincinnati incoming
If we get a ring out of it I could care less lmao
im curious what you mean by "the rest are in a similar tier of inaccuracy". comparing Watson (43%) to Pickett (10th from the bottom at 35%) is a pretty significant difference, an 8% difference is big. and that's not comparing him to players ranked well on this list, just someone who is almost out of the bottom ten.
Na this list checks out pretty well. The only QB's that *feel* like they don't belong that low on the list are Love and Stroud. Love may have gotten hot late but he was very innaccurate early when he wasn't gelling with his receivers, and while Stroud was awesome he had some struggles expected of a rookie QB here and there. So yes, lets please keep shitting on Watson.
I do think the list checks out for the rest of the guys too…
ngl feels like a nothing burger of a stat. Not much alignment with anything else.
Geno Smith is the best quarterback clearly
Kinda wild to me that Zach is not higher up on this list, but clearly there isn’t much correlation between this stat and the ultimate results the QBs are putting out.
2022 solidified his reputation of being inaccurate because he had the yips or whatever but it really wasn’t an issue last year. Whatever you want to say about Zach his ability to throw the ball is top tier
I'm still curious to see if Zach could turn it around with an oline that could actually block and comptent recievers. Dude was on the Jets and they made Flacco look like trash
I like the part where the rapist did bad and my QB did good :)
Calculated as: > sum of incompletions due to inaccurately charted passes (overthrows, underthrows, too far in front or behind receiver) / all incompletions This statistic is useful for each individual QB to know if practicing accuracy is the best way to improve their completion percentage. For any other utility, it's important to take into context what their completion percentage is, and the context of their pass attempts (under-pressure, throw-aways, amazing receivers who catch inaccurate passes anyways, depth of pass, etc.) It does not reflect whether a QB throws a lot of inaccurate passes. To exaggerate the point, consider a QB X, who has thrown one incompletion all year, and it was due to an inaccurate pass. Meanwhile, QB Y has thrown 200 incompletions in a year, and 100 of them were due to inaccuracy. So, QB X has a "rate of incompletions due to inaccurate passes" of 100%, while QB Y is 50%. The brilliant thing about posting statistics like these as journalism, is that the general public will misinterpret it and come to falty, but spicy conclusions, on their own. Statistics are not useful, and are sometimes harmful, without correct interpretation. Good journalism would have applied the statistic and helped the readers interpret it.
Geeeeennnooooooo
Love struggled the first half of last season and so I’m not surprised he’s on the list.
What a lot of these stats show is that a lot more than pure accuracy goes into playing QB. Not that there isn't some useful info here, and you'll probably never find true tier 1 guys in the bottom 10 (Lamar being the point of argument here, though he hasn't been consistently tier 1.)
Air Yards per attempt ... Among the highest in the league: Watson: 9.2 CJ Stroud: 9.1 Tyrod Taylor: 8.9 Lamar Jackson: 8.7 Jordan Love: 8.5 And then, among the lowest in the league: Jake Browning: 6.3 Patrick Mahomes: 6.6 Russell Wilson: 7.0 Jared Goff: 7.0 🤔
Lamar won MVP with that statline so at least with respect to the 2023 season he’d have to be considered tier 1 even while being low in this stat.
I think it just shows that a player can be a successful QB without just being a pure drop back passer.
What I mean is that it may be indication that he's not true tier-1 going forward. Also, fwiw, his EPA and EPA/play were not indicative of him being true tier 1, and any case for his MVP (which I do consider at least somewhat valid cases) has to be based on the success of the Ravens' offense overall. I'm not 100% if that logic always holds up, since I know at one point Mahomes was average in this. I don't know if he was ever bottom 10 though.
Should have never gotten rid of Mayfield. Morons.
No Zach!!!
This stat is kinda of a bs things as it is too subjective. I mean you don’t need to use this stat to prove Watson sucks. Just put up his stat line for the games he played this year. Then put on the film. Dude is washed and the browns are paid him 240M. He doesn’t even look interested in football anymore. I don’t even understand how the browns organization has been able to keep fans interested. I will give browns fans credit they’re dedicated if anything
Will levis ain’t on that list. Hell yea brother
Keep sleeping on Geno.
Give Bryce a break homie is running for his life.
This is up there with 'passes that should have been intercepted but weren't' in terms of manufactured "statistics".
Does this include passes where the QB is throwing the ball away to avoid a sack?
Pretty impressive list.
Yeah this was definitely tracked inaccurately
For Deshaun Watson to have that many inaccurate passes, yet get paid so much...I just can't make sense of it. I get that he had some great years, but I don't think any of those years justify a $240 million contract. And that's to say nothing about his off-the-field issues.
The Watson Browns contract is arguably the worst contract ever made in pro sports history.
Worse than Russel to the Broncos?