Andy Reid has been a top head coach since 2000 first with the eagles and chiefs. Doing it on 2 different teams in different conferences is truly impressive
Tbh the best coach rarely wins COTY. Good coaches are consistently good and the winner lately is almost always “which coach most exceeded expectations or overcame the most adversity”
yea exactly, reid isn’t winning COTY unless god forbid mahomes goes down for the season and we still make the playoffs regardless. when the expectation is superbowl every season, it’s just not gonna happen
Kyle didn’t win COTY when Lance AND Garoppolo went down, and made the NFCCG with a 7th round rookie.
But he didn’t win because Daboll got the 4-13 Giants to 9-7-1 the next year.
In 6 years with Mahomes as starter we’ve won 75 regular season games, averaging 12.5 wins per year (and half of those seasons were 16 games). So it’s definitely possible he does it in only 6 more seasons. Theoretically it’s possible he does it in 5…
Andy Reid *lives for football* (and those nuggies har har). He’s only 66, and we’ve seen Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick easily coach into their early seventies before retiring.
Basically if Reid’s health stays intact he **will** hold the record for regular season wins.
He's kinda ~~fat as fuck~~ a large individual :)*, so...
Not the best for long-lived life and/or life quality especially as you age.
E: To make it not aggressive, apparently.
Not sure why you’re being so aggressive about it.
Of course his size and weight aren’t ideal for health and longevity, but he’s been a HC for like 25 years now. He only needs another 5-7 years to get the record in discussion. Right now I’d bet on the over, but we’ll see.
> Basically if Reid’s health stays intact he will hold the record for regular season wins.
What would it take to consider Reid a superior coach to Belichek? Just fun to speculate. Does he need 6 superbowls? Or maybe fewer SBs due to his previous success with the Eagles?
5 Conference Championship appearances with 2 different teams and being the All-Time leader in wins for two separate franchises (both of which are 64+ years old) will likely never be replicated.
Not really. Considering when he was with us he failed to do what he did with the Chiefs. Win a fucking Super Bowl. He then has the gall to beat us in one. I can't stand him because of that.
And Bill was at the forefront for defensive innovation/strategy before he retired. His strategy in the Rams Super Bowl was a thing of beauty. Absolutely shut them down.
Did Belichick official retire and I missed it? I know he was let go as Pats head coach and didn’t get picked up this year. However, he can always come back next year.
As far as I know he hasn't officially retired. I think there's an assumption based on how much media he's done over the last few months (Pat McAfee draft coverage, rumors of a Belichick/Saban version of the Manningcast, etc.) that he's hanging it up, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Mike McCarthy, a Super Bowl winning head coach with a win percentage better than .600 for two high profile teams over almost two decades, coaching in 22 playoff games,
and the consensus is that he's probably not in the top half of the established head coaches in the league. pretty incredible career
Yeah, I think DC should be 5 and move tomlin and lafleur down one. It’s more impressive to achieve what he has with the lions than the Steelers or packers
Why are we acting like the Lions are a make-a-wish kid? Their GM has done a fantastic job and they are loaded with talent. And Dan Campbell has one playoff berth. It’s weird to me the level of glazing he has gotten off a single good year. I think Hard Knocks has a lot to do with it.
Important to note that the season before last when we went on a run and finished with a winning record they did it with a LOT of snaps from UDFAs and players cut from other teams like Anzalone, Cominsky, Buggs, Josh Reynolds, Jerry Jacobs, and Kalif Raymond. The front office has been great but Campbell has been turning other teams' trash into a solid core since the beginning.
>Why are we acting like the Lions are a make-a-wish kid?
a 50-ish year streak of a perpetually losing culture only briefly interspersed with short-lived win streaks
You think the lions without Campbell and the amazing staff he has put together would be on the brink of a Super Bowl with a mid coach like Jim Caldwell? It is not just Ben Johnson responsible for the offense.
I don’t care where they put Campbell, I’d just like him to get the deserved praise without having to mention Ben Johnson. Campbell is very much involved in the offense and why it’s so good
You could see the turnaround and concepts change when Campbell took over for Lynn in his first year. End of that season and into the offseason he mentioned being more involved in the offense and creating an identity for it. I think in general people also think the head coach isn’t involved in the planning as much, but Campbell is. Johnson certainly calls a great game, but he’s not the only one setting it up for success
It's hard to properly attribute credit to Campbell for the Lions offense, and probably won't be able to until Johnson eventually moves on. The best evidence was during Campbell's first season and Campbell demoted Anthony Lynn and took over playcalling. The team immediately improved. Campbell definitely has more fingerprints on the offense as a whole than most people probably know but Ben Johnson does deserve a lot of the flowers.
I may be biased but I don’t see how McVay should be lower than Shanahan. Him winning a Super Bowl should automatically put him above. Not to mention that he beat the 49ers in the NFC championship to do it.
And that’s totally fair.
Right now McVay probably deserves to be considered as the better HC. Maybe it matters that the Rams beat Joe Burrow and the Bengals while the 49ers have been stuck facing Mahomes and Reid both times. (Or maybe that detail shouldn’t matter?)
But wherever McVay and Shanahan land on people’s rankings, neither of them should be very far ahead of the other in my opinion.
I don't see that detail mattering. The Bengals were the better team that year than KC and had a 2-0 record against them to back it up. It's not like the Rams beat a Jake Delhomme or Rex Grossman.
I think you’re overthinking this. OP didn’t have to explicitly say they had close resumes, it was implied and everybody else picked up on it except for you apparently. Also, I think your argument that they in fact don’t have close resumes needs a little explaining outside of just saying they don’t coach the same way. They have the same amount of experience as HCs, and similar levels of success in that timeframe. Why would you not consider that close resumes?
49ers and Rams missed the playoffs for the same reason after the first SB loss. Injuries. McCarthy living off that SB for a decade everyone knows he's tier 2-3 at best.
Obviously not but those aren’t comparable. McCarthy won his Super Bowl almost 15 years ago. McVay and Shanahan started coaching the same year and both have been incredibly successful. I think using the Super Bowl win as an edge for ranking McVay higher is more than fair.
Because Shanahan has a great system and currently just went to a SB. Most people would prefer Shanahan over Mcvay. Both are great coaches imo. Would be happy with either.
Shanahan lost his super bowl leads to Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes. The best of all time and literally the only one with a chance to pass him. I don’t see how people ignore that and decide he is a choker, especially after what happened in the GB and DET games this playoffs.
As a Seahawks fan, I biased against both coaches. I think the differentiating factor is that in the last two seasons, McVay's record is 15-19, while Shanahan's is a pretty ridiculous 25-9.
Factoring in past resume, yeah, I'd take McVay, but Shanahan is at the peak of his powers right now, so a current-day list should reflect that.
Shanahan has a significantly better roster over that time though as well. If anything I’m more impressed w McVay and the absurd coaching turn over he’s had since 2019.
There are currently 3 former 49ers coordinators under Shanahan that are head coaches in the nfl. 2 of them were in the playoffs last year, and the 3rd lost his QB on the first drive of the season. McVay has lost staff too but Shanahan also had ridiculous turnover.
Not saying he hasn’t, or that he’s not a good coach, he very obviously is, but I would say that McVay has shown more flexibility in adapting scheme and play styles to his roster and the strength of his coaches. He’s been to two and won one SB, and was the youngest head coach ever. His tree has (or I guess had, Staley) 4 head coaches currently and his offense genuinely started a shift in a lot of the NFL. And again I think roster construction-wise we would all say the 9ers have had more talent, I don’t know that I could name a defensive player on the rams last year apart from their now retired HOFer.
McVay also started out with a better roster that consisted of an actual NFL starting QB who was the 1st overall pick AND potentially the best defensive player of all time.
Meanwhile the Shanahan started with one of the arguably the worst rosters in the NFL at the time and conducted a full rebuild to get the roster to where it is now.
I like Shanahan a lot and think he’s a top 5 coach in the league, but I’d prefer McVay. McVay seems to get more out of less and seems to do a better job adapting to the players he has rather than needing the players to adapt to his scheme
I’m not saying you’re wrong or that one is clearly better than the other. I have no dog in this fight and I believe Kyle will have (at least) a couple of Lombardi trophies whenever he retires decades down the line.
So far Kyle has been to two Super Bowls as a HC and he’s faced Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid both times. McVay has been to two Super Bowls and he’s faced Brady + Belichick (ouch) and then Joe Burrow, who he beat.
If anyone thinks facing Mahomes in the SB is a surefire way to win a Lombardi then I’d love to read their resume and have them interview to be an NFL HC.
>I’m not saying you’re wrong or that one is clearly better than the other.
He literally just wrote that he thinks the majority would prefer Shanahan. Why would he? Because he thinks one is clearly better than the other.
The rest of the NFL fandom outside of San Francisco fans are going to prefer McVay. He hasn't blown multiple opportunities to win and his teams have been just as more or routinely competitive. He resurrected Goff, appropriately identified the weakness in his team, corrected it and immediately won a title.
>So far Kyle has been to two Super Bowls as a HC and he’s faced Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid both times. McVay has been to two Super Bowls and he’s faced Brady + Belichick (ouch) and then Joe Burrow, who he beat.
>If anyone thinks facing Mahomes in the SB is a surefire way to win a Lombardi then I’d love to read their resume and have them interview to be an NFL HC.
Spoiler, you're going to run into a good team in the Super Bowl. If it's not Mahomes then it's a team that beat Mahomes. Sometimes it's a team that went into Kansas City and beat Mahomes at his own stadium. Trying to diminish the Rams' Super Bowl because it was against the team that beat Mahomes instead of Mahomes himself is some goomba shit lmao.
I started the comment saying you weren’t wrong because too often in threads like these simple exchanges get turned into downvoting wars and rabid factionalism between fanbases. I was trying to say that I don’t care about that shit and was just trying to have a discussion.
> you…wrote that you think the majority would prefer Shanahan.
Based on reading the comments in that thread and just going by their careers so far I get the impression that people would take McVay over Shanahan *right now.* And it’s simple: McVay is 1-1 in the SB, Shanahan is 0-2.
I said that I didn’t think you were wrong because I don’t believe you are wrong. Both coaches get their teams to the SB and have vastly turned around what was a complete dumpster fire of a franchise at the time of their hiring.
> The rest of the NFL fandom outside of San Francisco fans are going to prefer McVay.
Yeah that’s what I just said. I’m agreeing with that take.
And last, I just happen to strongly disagree with the idea that facing Mahomes and Andy Reid in the SB ins’t significantly more difficult than any other QB currently in the league. No SB is supposed to be easy, obviously. But to not acknowledge the gap between Mahomes and every other QB in the league right now seems a little disingenuous (to me). We can agree to disagree on that.
Yeah, he definitely has a great system and I get he just went to a SB but lost again with an incredibly talented roster. I really don’t think most would prefer Shanahan over McVay but I could be wrong. They are absolutely both great coaches, I just think the SB win should matter a good deal.
I agree but I also think the context of *who the Rams beat* in the SB is important.
Having to face Mahomes in both SB appearances is rough for anyone not named Brady (and his Bucs team was stacked as well).
Most NFL fans would probably take McVay simply because he has the ring, you’re 100% correct about that. But I do think in the long run Kyle will end up with more rings than McVay.
Rams were missing Robert Woods among other things, they had to drag Eric Weddle out of retirement.
The injury report before the game has 4 Bucs players missing the game compared to Rams having 10 players missing the game.
Plus if Godwin being there was so important I'll point out that they had Godwin during the regular season and things didn't go so well that time either.
I think Shanahan deserves a lot of the heat for both SB losses, but the NFCCG loss is purely on Jaquizzky Tart dropping a wide open interception that would have iced the game. Plus, all the success with Jimmy G is pretty indicative of a coach that can make the most out of their players limitations. I think Shanny & McVay in the same tier is a fair ranking
> but the NFCCG loss is purely on Jaquizzky Tart dropping a wide open interception that would have iced the game.
Again with this? it was 9 minutes left and 49ers offense wasn't doing anything.
Besides if you wanna go into the hypotheticals it goes both ways.
Rams had a dropped touchdown which instead led to a failed field goal that gave 49ers a short field and a successful FG. That's a 9 point swing, potentially 10 or 11.
While also you know there was a few near interceptions from Rams as well.
Yeah, that would be a bad take. I’m talking here specifically about McVay and Shanahan who started coaching the same year and both have been wildly successful. In this situation I think a Super Bowl win should be a big consideration when ranking them
They started the same year, and McVay has a better record and a Super Bowl win. I don’t get it.
People will point to the head-to-head record, but the Niners were the Rams’ kryptonite long before Shanny became head coach. The year before Shanny was hired, they went 2-14 with BOTH wins against the Rams.
The 49ers have a regular season record against the Rams of 77-68-3.
When they both started their HC careers in 2017 the record was likely favoring the Rams, but since Kyle’s taken over yeah we definitely seem to have the Rams’ number.
The 49ers 1-1 against the Rams in the post-season.
Yeah we should defiently only consider the one game sample not the 12 game sample.
That one game that a 49er dropped an easy pick, and the Rams barely won Shanahan should've coached him better
I didn’t say only. I said I think it should matter more. Yeah, it’s a small sample size but that comes with the territory for football. There’s only so many games. He can’t control that drop but he did go 3 and out 3 straight times to lose that game so yeah maybe he should’ve coached better
It’s amazing fans still point to the Tartt drop , which would have been a punt, and ignore Niners did nothing in the 2nd half offensively. There was a ton of time left in the game , it wasn’t like it would have been a game sealing int.
Iirc they're line was super banged up they had a guard at tackle and a hobbled Jimmy G while the Rams had prime Donald and Miller. Yeah you better win that game convincingly.
Tier 1: Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan
Tier 2: Dan Campbell, Matt LaFleur, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin
Tier 3: Kevin Stefanski, Shane Steichen, DeMeco Ryans, Sean McDermott, Mike McDaniel
Tier 4: Sean Payton, Kevin O’Connell, Mike McCarthy, Brian Daboll
Tier 5: Doug Pederson, Nick Sirianni, Jonathan Gannon, Zac Taylor
Tier 6: Robert Saleh, Raheem Morris, Dan Quinn, Matt Eberflus, Todd Bowles, Dennis Allen
Unknown: Mike McDonald, Antonio Pierce, Jerod Mayo, Brian Callahan, Dave Canales
Does Reid have an argument for his own tier? I don't feel strongly about it but 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and with different iterations of the team (offense-focused vs defense-focused) is pretty crazy.
I think it depends on what you're measuring. Reid is certainly the most successful/"greatest" active coach by quite a bit, but coaching Patrick Mahomes is the easiest job in the NFL. Back when he was coaching McNabb (a good QB in his own right) he had similar success to Shanahan and McVay, so putting those three in a tier seems fair if you're trying to measure coaching ability
I tend to think that talent makes itself known. Justin Herbert is a great example, he's been playing like a top QB with a bad coaching situation around him for most of his career.
I think it’s an interesting convo. IMO Mahomes would still be good, I’ll bet slightly below the level he is now with probably 2/3rds of the teams in the league. A good OC helps just as much as a head coach. Look at Lamar with Harbaugh who is not an offensive minded coach, Goff w/ Campbell, Burrow with Taylor who not a lot of people talk about, Allen with McDermott, etc.
Then you have the teams that are just dumpster fires and pretty much any QB would have trouble succeeding there.
He's probably good, but not as good. He needed a year under a steady, experienced hand to work out his mechanical kinks and develop as a NFL QB. If he goes to a different situation, he likely gets rushed into starting and shows flashes, but isn't as consistently good.
Did he look like he was on his own tier before he got Mahomes? Because from my memory he did not. In fact I mostly remember people slagging his clock management, not saying he was the best HC in the NFL.
Todd Bowles needs to be at least tier 4. Zac Taylor should be at least tier 3
Dan Quinn and Raheem Morris belong in the same tier (both first year with this team, solid DCs who flamed put in their only previous HC position for an NFC South team)
I agree 1000%. Bowles should be higher especially after this season. And Zac Taylor should get more credit for the bengals. The fact that they went from the worst team in the NFL to a Super Bowl appearance only 2 seasons later speaks volumes
Yeah. I think zac Taylor is the example of a coach learning on the job. He wasn’t a good coach in the beginning but he had a bad team. But zac Taylor did learn to be better. Deserves some
Commendation
Kinda both, honestly. The team wasn't great after the 08 collapse, and Josh Freeman didn't develop as hoped, but it was pretty clear that he wasn't ready for the position and was getting worse after going 10-6 his second year. The team seemed to be checked out on him by like week 7 in 2011.
I think a better GM than Mark Dominic could have made it a whole different story, but I don't think he did himself any favors in 2011, either.
I’m in the camp that Saleh isn’t really that good of a HC. He’s had how three seasons to prove he’s “him” but hasn’t. He was losing the locker room last year and the leak about taking staffs phone…
He hasn’t been fortunate with the QB situation but good (or in your words, pretty good) coaches find ways to get results regardless. Tomlin, for an extreme example, dragged Kenny Pickett and Mason Rudolph to the playoffs.
Took a 4-12 team to 9-8 with a backup QB, also gets praised for the offensive scheme he put in.
Just saying, don't necessarily agree it's correct to put him above KOC.
Call me a hater if you want, but I’d trade John Harbaugh & Kyle Shanahan. I view them basically as equals, but John has a ring and Kyle’s got 3 legendary chokes (including the most recent iteration where a failure to understand and communicate the overtime rules may have cost his team a title)
I think this current ranking is fair.
Shanahan has gotten further, more times, more recently. He's done great with Purdy who, as we all know, was the last pick in the draft. He's a more hands-on coach when it comes to play-calling whereas Harbs is more of a management/culture coach and less about X's and O's so I guess you can debate on which aspect is better for a HC.
Otherwise, Harbs' ring is from a decade ago. So, yeah that should be taken into account, but for how long does that entitle you to be considered a great coach when compared to other active coaches? (I mean, even Bill got sent packing after a few disappointing seasons. If anyone deserved to rest on their laurels for a bit, it'd be him.)
Our past few playoff appearances have been pretty disappointing; not just because we lost, but the manner in which we lost.
Harbs is great so I'm not shitting on him. I'm just saying at this point, I can see Shanahan getting ranked above him. It's close though.
I think anybody old enough would put him in tier 2. Teenagers may think he's some TV personality but he's got a record of 169-105 to McDaniel 20-16 to name one example.
For his career yeah, no doubt. What KOC was able to do with four different QBs last yearand with keeping the team competitive, it was sort of a minor miracle.
Daboll has gotten the worst roster in the league to win a playoff game, then had an UDFA third string QB winning games. Giants were 3 plays (within their own control) from winning 9 games last year. Y’all really overestimate the talent on the team if you think he’s not an incredible coach
Every team has a couple games they lost that they were “one play away” from winning. They won 6 games last year, let’s be honest, they sucked. They had the 3rd worst point differential in the league
Like seriously how may active Super Bowl winning coaches are there. Not to mention he turned around terrible jags team that had back to back number 1 overall picks.
Doug Pederson has 1 season where his team got over 9 wins. Besides that Miraculous 2017 season, he's most just led his teams to mediocrity.
They're not ranking him on his 2017 season with a different team.
Yeah, the two years before he got to Jax, they won a combined four games and they’ve had back to back winning seasons since he got there and won a playoff game. That alone puts him above tier 5 and that’s without even acknowledging the ring in Philly.
Sirianni has a .667 win percentage (34-17). I do not think he is top 10, but putting him one layer above the bottom is silly. He is at the very least, Tier 4 pushing Tier 3.
Glad MLF is getting the respect he deserves. All that talk about how he was holding Rodgers back, and now it seems very much like it was the other way around.
It’s not the other way around. They both were integral parts to the Packers winning 39 games over three seasons, one of the most successful stretches in NFL history. They just couldn’t get over the hump together, and I think Rodgers, MLF, Gute, and the football gods all share the blame for that.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh, in Lafleur’s first season it was “hes holding Rodgers back”. Then the narrative shifted to “Rodgers is carrying Lafleur’s offense”. People really jumped that halfway through last season, which was obviously worse but does that matter? He had Aaron fucking Rodgers, and then spent half a season masterfully working out the kinks in Jordan Love and turned him into a stud. This isn’t Aaron Rodgers hate btw, this is pointing out that his game was different than that of the coach at first.
When was the last time the Bills defense was bad/terrible? Seems like they've had a pretty consistent average-above average defense for the past decade or so that has carried the team at some points
Every time they play the Chiefs in the playoffs. He is also terrible at clock management and substitutions. Until (if) he beats Reid in the playoffs he will be second rate.
They dominate teams that are under .500 defensively then give up 25-30 every time they play someone good. It’s why vs the Chiefs and Bengals in the playoffs the Bills defense averages 31ppg allowed. McDermott can’t coach vs the elite.
Nah Sean McDermott is an asshole. I’ve never seen a super star QB be let down more by his coach than Allen with McDermott. There are literally thousands of people who think Allen isn’t a top 5 QB because he hasn’t won yet but he has delivered the goods to win time and time again and every time mcdermott has some stupid coaching error that cost them the game. When you consider the media narrative determines awards, McDermott has single handedly shaped a HOF QB to not even being worthy of a second team all pro. Even though he’s on pace for the most TDs rushing by a QB all time and to be top 6-7 in passing all time. It’s just wild.
I feel like Andy should be in a tier of his own. Along with the enormous success he’s had throughout his career and over the last six years, *far* more than anyone else.
Specifically his good coaching decisions and Shanahan’s poor coaching decisions were key factors that lead to the Chiefs winning.
Why do we value old accolades so much? Harbaugh has 3 playoff wins since his SB win, Tomlin has 3 since his last SB appearance. It seems odd to rank the lower than guys like McDermott or LaFleur who have as much or more success in less time.
Tomlin ranks 5th. Time to sit back and wait for the nutcase Steeler fans to show up here talking about “he’s overrated, Steelers should fire him, never had a losing record is irrelevant”.
Yinz move, dumbass Steelers fans
Andy Reid has been a top head coach since 2000 first with the eagles and chiefs. Doing it on 2 different teams in different conferences is truly impressive
1 COTY in 2002. Hoping we rip off a 14-15 win season and some shitty team with a new coach doesn't go 9-8, so that he can win one with the Chiefs.
Tbh the best coach rarely wins COTY. Good coaches are consistently good and the winner lately is almost always “which coach most exceeded expectations or overcame the most adversity”
yea exactly, reid isn’t winning COTY unless god forbid mahomes goes down for the season and we still make the playoffs regardless. when the expectation is superbowl every season, it’s just not gonna happen
Kyle didn’t win COTY when Lance AND Garoppolo went down, and made the NFCCG with a 7th round rookie. But he didn’t win because Daboll got the 4-13 Giants to 9-7-1 the next year.
Yeah, that would make me salty too. Kinda proves their point, also
COTY is more like most improved coach
i just want him to get the all time wins record most of all tbh
You think he'll be around long enough to win 70 more regular season wins?!? Or do you mean simply post season wins where he needs 5 more?
Does 7-10 more seasons seem unreasonable for him to achieve?
In 6 years with Mahomes as starter we’ve won 75 regular season games, averaging 12.5 wins per year (and half of those seasons were 16 games). So it’s definitely possible he does it in only 6 more seasons. Theoretically it’s possible he does it in 5…
Andy Reid *lives for football* (and those nuggies har har). He’s only 66, and we’ve seen Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick easily coach into their early seventies before retiring. Basically if Reid’s health stays intact he **will** hold the record for regular season wins.
I'm NOT body shaming, but I'm concerned Andy's weight / diet will not give him the longevity he could have otherwise had.
He's kinda ~~fat as fuck~~ a large individual :)*, so... Not the best for long-lived life and/or life quality especially as you age. E: To make it not aggressive, apparently.
Not sure why you’re being so aggressive about it. Of course his size and weight aren’t ideal for health and longevity, but he’s been a HC for like 25 years now. He only needs another 5-7 years to get the record in discussion. Right now I’d bet on the over, but we’ll see.
How was that aggressive lol. The guy has been obese for decades, that's hell on the body. Add age and NFL HC workload on top.
> Basically if Reid’s health stays intact he will hold the record for regular season wins. What would it take to consider Reid a superior coach to Belichek? Just fun to speculate. Does he need 6 superbowls? Or maybe fewer SBs due to his previous success with the Eagles?
i feel like he'll get it in the 6 he has on contract, but if he doesn't I could totally see a one year extension for him to wrap things up
To me, yes.
As long as Mahomes stays mostly healthy, he could do that in 6 seasons with good roster management and Mahomes injury luck.
Even the years we won 14 games he wasn’t close to getting COTY
He deserved it in 2018. I still don’t get how Mahomes came out of no where to do that, mainly due to Andy, and he didn’t win Coach of the Year.
5 Conference Championship appearances with 2 different teams and being the All-Time leader in wins for two separate franchises (both of which are 64+ years old) will likely never be replicated.
And yet he only won a Lombardi with you guys and then put the final dagger in our poor coffin by beating us in 57. The final insult.
Not really. Considering when he was with us he failed to do what he did with the Chiefs. Win a fucking Super Bowl. He then has the gall to beat us in one. I can't stand him because of that.
The fact that Reid is still at the forefront of offensive innovation/strategy is astounding at his age.
And Bill was at the forefront for defensive innovation/strategy before he retired. His strategy in the Rams Super Bowl was a thing of beauty. Absolutely shut them down.
Did Belichick official retire and I missed it? I know he was let go as Pats head coach and didn’t get picked up this year. However, he can always come back next year.
As far as I know he hasn't officially retired. I think there's an assumption based on how much media he's done over the last few months (Pat McAfee draft coverage, rumors of a Belichick/Saban version of the Manningcast, etc.) that he's hanging it up, but I'll believe it when I see it.
True, but the average age of a defensive coordinator is 50 and for a offensive coordinator is 45 and seemingly to be getting younger.
I mean there’s also been a recent trend of young DCs to HCs as well. The NFL is going younger in general across the board.
Hint hint wink wink @American government
[удалено]
I know plenty of people who have made such sacrifices without achieving anything.
/r/NFCEastMemeWar is like "yeah, we know" for none of our HCs to be on the list
Mike McCarthy, a Super Bowl winning head coach with a win percentage better than .600 for two high profile teams over almost two decades, coaching in 22 playoff games, and the consensus is that he's probably not in the top half of the established head coaches in the league. pretty incredible career
He can thank Aaron Rodgers for that
I am going to take a wild guess and say that Dennis Allen was in no way considered for this list
I’m pretty comfortable with Tomlin being 5th. I think he would be higher if we had more success recently.
Pretty crazy how long we’ve had Harbs and Tomlin now
Not too crazy for our track record, less coaches than popes in the last 50 years
I’d personally but DC at 5 if we are talking about current coaching, but Tomlin is certainly a top 5 overall coach among current coaches.
Yeah, I think DC should be 5 and move tomlin and lafleur down one. It’s more impressive to achieve what he has with the lions than the Steelers or packers
Why are we acting like the Lions are a make-a-wish kid? Their GM has done a fantastic job and they are loaded with talent. And Dan Campbell has one playoff berth. It’s weird to me the level of glazing he has gotten off a single good year. I think Hard Knocks has a lot to do with it.
Important to note that the season before last when we went on a run and finished with a winning record they did it with a LOT of snaps from UDFAs and players cut from other teams like Anzalone, Cominsky, Buggs, Josh Reynolds, Jerry Jacobs, and Kalif Raymond. The front office has been great but Campbell has been turning other teams' trash into a solid core since the beginning.
>Why are we acting like the Lions are a make-a-wish kid? a 50-ish year streak of a perpetually losing culture only briefly interspersed with short-lived win streaks
You think the lions without Campbell and the amazing staff he has put together would be on the brink of a Super Bowl with a mid coach like Jim Caldwell? It is not just Ben Johnson responsible for the offense.
I said he should be #1 before I opened the list.
It’s so great to have a coach that doesn’t stink and FO stability. It’s almost like when you don’t have that, your team is terrible for 20 years.
It is weird. It's like ... I'm happy, but I really hope I can see two good seasons in a row. I'm hoping this is the year.
I don’t care where they put Campbell, I’d just like him to get the deserved praise without having to mention Ben Johnson. Campbell is very much involved in the offense and why it’s so good
Not saying you are wrong, but what is your source on that?
You could see the turnaround and concepts change when Campbell took over for Lynn in his first year. End of that season and into the offseason he mentioned being more involved in the offense and creating an identity for it. I think in general people also think the head coach isn’t involved in the planning as much, but Campbell is. Johnson certainly calls a great game, but he’s not the only one setting it up for success
It's hard to properly attribute credit to Campbell for the Lions offense, and probably won't be able to until Johnson eventually moves on. The best evidence was during Campbell's first season and Campbell demoted Anthony Lynn and took over playcalling. The team immediately improved. Campbell definitely has more fingerprints on the offense as a whole than most people probably know but Ben Johnson does deserve a lot of the flowers.
Arthur would’ve been 1 if they gave him just one more year
I may be biased but I don’t see how McVay should be lower than Shanahan. Him winning a Super Bowl should automatically put him above. Not to mention that he beat the 49ers in the NFC championship to do it.
Same logic would also automatically put Mike Tomlin and Doug Pederson above him.
I think the argument is they are both young offensive savants with consistent high level success. One has won a Super Bowl tho.
And that’s totally fair. Right now McVay probably deserves to be considered as the better HC. Maybe it matters that the Rams beat Joe Burrow and the Bengals while the 49ers have been stuck facing Mahomes and Reid both times. (Or maybe that detail shouldn’t matter?) But wherever McVay and Shanahan land on people’s rankings, neither of them should be very far ahead of the other in my opinion.
I don't see that detail mattering. The Bengals were the better team that year than KC and had a 2-0 record against them to back it up. It's not like the Rams beat a Jake Delhomme or Rex Grossman.
Why automatically? There’s a big difference between a win in 08, 17 (and on a different team), and 21.
Not my logic. Ask the guy I was replying to.
Was it? His seemed much more like “given two extremely close resumes, a SB win is automatically better” over “a SB win is automatically better”.
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I think you’re overthinking this. OP didn’t have to explicitly say they had close resumes, it was implied and everybody else picked up on it except for you apparently. Also, I think your argument that they in fact don’t have close resumes needs a little explaining outside of just saying they don’t coach the same way. They have the same amount of experience as HCs, and similar levels of success in that timeframe. Why would you not consider that close resumes?
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I mean McVay and Shanahan both made 2 superbowls with different qbs. They are closer than Mcarthy.
49ers and Rams missed the playoffs for the same reason after the first SB loss. Injuries. McCarthy living off that SB for a decade everyone knows he's tier 2-3 at best.
Obviously not but those aren’t comparable. McCarthy won his Super Bowl almost 15 years ago. McVay and Shanahan started coaching the same year and both have been incredibly successful. I think using the Super Bowl win as an edge for ranking McVay higher is more than fair.
Because Shanahan has a great system and currently just went to a SB. Most people would prefer Shanahan over Mcvay. Both are great coaches imo. Would be happy with either.
I think most people would want the coach that has shown to overcome deficits in big games, not constantly blow them
Shanahan lost his super bowl leads to Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes. The best of all time and literally the only one with a chance to pass him. I don’t see how people ignore that and decide he is a choker, especially after what happened in the GB and DET games this playoffs.
Dan Quinn is the “side eye monkey” meme
No yeah I don’t get why Dan Quinn gets to walk away Scot free from that Super Bowl lol
You mean like the largest halftime comeback ever in the NFCCG? After a comeback the previous week as well
One NFC title game makes up for two Super Bowls, another NFCCG and whatever blame he gets for 28-3?
As a Seahawks fan, I biased against both coaches. I think the differentiating factor is that in the last two seasons, McVay's record is 15-19, while Shanahan's is a pretty ridiculous 25-9. Factoring in past resume, yeah, I'd take McVay, but Shanahan is at the peak of his powers right now, so a current-day list should reflect that.
Shanahan has a significantly better roster over that time though as well. If anything I’m more impressed w McVay and the absurd coaching turn over he’s had since 2019.
There are currently 3 former 49ers coordinators under Shanahan that are head coaches in the nfl. 2 of them were in the playoffs last year, and the 3rd lost his QB on the first drive of the season. McVay has lost staff too but Shanahan also had ridiculous turnover.
Not saying he hasn’t, or that he’s not a good coach, he very obviously is, but I would say that McVay has shown more flexibility in adapting scheme and play styles to his roster and the strength of his coaches. He’s been to two and won one SB, and was the youngest head coach ever. His tree has (or I guess had, Staley) 4 head coaches currently and his offense genuinely started a shift in a lot of the NFL. And again I think roster construction-wise we would all say the 9ers have had more talent, I don’t know that I could name a defensive player on the rams last year apart from their now retired HOFer.
McVay also started out with a better roster that consisted of an actual NFL starting QB who was the 1st overall pick AND potentially the best defensive player of all time. Meanwhile the Shanahan started with one of the arguably the worst rosters in the NFL at the time and conducted a full rebuild to get the roster to where it is now.
I like Shanahan a lot and think he’s a top 5 coach in the league, but I’d prefer McVay. McVay seems to get more out of less and seems to do a better job adapting to the players he has rather than needing the players to adapt to his scheme
>Most people would prefer Shanahan over Mcvay ABSOLUTELY not lmao.
I’m not saying you’re wrong or that one is clearly better than the other. I have no dog in this fight and I believe Kyle will have (at least) a couple of Lombardi trophies whenever he retires decades down the line. So far Kyle has been to two Super Bowls as a HC and he’s faced Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid both times. McVay has been to two Super Bowls and he’s faced Brady + Belichick (ouch) and then Joe Burrow, who he beat. If anyone thinks facing Mahomes in the SB is a surefire way to win a Lombardi then I’d love to read their resume and have them interview to be an NFL HC.
>I’m not saying you’re wrong or that one is clearly better than the other. He literally just wrote that he thinks the majority would prefer Shanahan. Why would he? Because he thinks one is clearly better than the other. The rest of the NFL fandom outside of San Francisco fans are going to prefer McVay. He hasn't blown multiple opportunities to win and his teams have been just as more or routinely competitive. He resurrected Goff, appropriately identified the weakness in his team, corrected it and immediately won a title. >So far Kyle has been to two Super Bowls as a HC and he’s faced Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid both times. McVay has been to two Super Bowls and he’s faced Brady + Belichick (ouch) and then Joe Burrow, who he beat. >If anyone thinks facing Mahomes in the SB is a surefire way to win a Lombardi then I’d love to read their resume and have them interview to be an NFL HC. Spoiler, you're going to run into a good team in the Super Bowl. If it's not Mahomes then it's a team that beat Mahomes. Sometimes it's a team that went into Kansas City and beat Mahomes at his own stadium. Trying to diminish the Rams' Super Bowl because it was against the team that beat Mahomes instead of Mahomes himself is some goomba shit lmao.
I started the comment saying you weren’t wrong because too often in threads like these simple exchanges get turned into downvoting wars and rabid factionalism between fanbases. I was trying to say that I don’t care about that shit and was just trying to have a discussion. > you…wrote that you think the majority would prefer Shanahan. Based on reading the comments in that thread and just going by their careers so far I get the impression that people would take McVay over Shanahan *right now.* And it’s simple: McVay is 1-1 in the SB, Shanahan is 0-2. I said that I didn’t think you were wrong because I don’t believe you are wrong. Both coaches get their teams to the SB and have vastly turned around what was a complete dumpster fire of a franchise at the time of their hiring. > The rest of the NFL fandom outside of San Francisco fans are going to prefer McVay. Yeah that’s what I just said. I’m agreeing with that take. And last, I just happen to strongly disagree with the idea that facing Mahomes and Andy Reid in the SB ins’t significantly more difficult than any other QB currently in the league. No SB is supposed to be easy, obviously. But to not acknowledge the gap between Mahomes and every other QB in the league right now seems a little disingenuous (to me). We can agree to disagree on that.
Yeah, he definitely has a great system and I get he just went to a SB but lost again with an incredibly talented roster. I really don’t think most would prefer Shanahan over McVay but I could be wrong. They are absolutely both great coaches, I just think the SB win should matter a good deal.
I agree but I also think the context of *who the Rams beat* in the SB is important. Having to face Mahomes in both SB appearances is rough for anyone not named Brady (and his Bucs team was stacked as well). Most NFL fans would probably take McVay simply because he has the ring, you’re 100% correct about that. But I do think in the long run Kyle will end up with more rings than McVay.
I mean, that Rams team DID beat Bradys Bucs on the way to the SB as well as your 49ers team.
The 2020 Bucs were healthier than the 2021 version. They had AB and Godwin
Rams were missing Robert Woods among other things, they had to drag Eric Weddle out of retirement. The injury report before the game has 4 Bucs players missing the game compared to Rams having 10 players missing the game. Plus if Godwin being there was so important I'll point out that they had Godwin during the regular season and things didn't go so well that time either.
AB didn’t play in the regular season game in 2021. That game was also in LA, not Tampa.
They also absolutely did great against Brady Bucs during the regular season
I think Shanahan deserves a lot of the heat for both SB losses, but the NFCCG loss is purely on Jaquizzky Tart dropping a wide open interception that would have iced the game. Plus, all the success with Jimmy G is pretty indicative of a coach that can make the most out of their players limitations. I think Shanny & McVay in the same tier is a fair ranking
> but the NFCCG loss is purely on Jaquizzky Tart dropping a wide open interception that would have iced the game. Again with this? it was 9 minutes left and 49ers offense wasn't doing anything. Besides if you wanna go into the hypotheticals it goes both ways. Rams had a dropped touchdown which instead led to a failed field goal that gave 49ers a short field and a successful FG. That's a 9 point swing, potentially 10 or 11. While also you know there was a few near interceptions from Rams as well.
The most that dropped arm punt did was to rob the 49ers of one more three and out.
I’m definitely taking McVay
"The best player/coach is the one who won a Super Bowl" is the worst take out there.
Yeah, that would be a bad take. I’m talking here specifically about McVay and Shanahan who started coaching the same year and both have been wildly successful. In this situation I think a Super Bowl win should be a big consideration when ranking them
Fair enough
I think they’re pretty even and recency bias gives Shanahan the slight edge. Comparing their whole careers I’d go McVay
They started the same year, and McVay has a better record and a Super Bowl win. I don’t get it. People will point to the head-to-head record, but the Niners were the Rams’ kryptonite long before Shanny became head coach. The year before Shanny was hired, they went 2-14 with BOTH wins against the Rams.
The Rams going from 32nd and putrid on offense in Jeff Fisher’s final year to 1st and explosive the following year with McVay is still insane
The 49ers have a regular season record against the Rams of 77-68-3. When they both started their HC careers in 2017 the record was likely favoring the Rams, but since Kyle’s taken over yeah we definitely seem to have the Rams’ number. The 49ers 1-1 against the Rams in the post-season.
Niners won 15 out of 21 games against the rams in the decade prior to Shanny being hired.
Imo shanny ahead of McVay is justified, their head to head record is pretty clear
Yeah, that’s fair but I would say their head to head record in the playoffs, when it matters most, is more important.
Yeah we should defiently only consider the one game sample not the 12 game sample. That one game that a 49er dropped an easy pick, and the Rams barely won Shanahan should've coached him better
I didn’t say only. I said I think it should matter more. Yeah, it’s a small sample size but that comes with the territory for football. There’s only so many games. He can’t control that drop but he did go 3 and out 3 straight times to lose that game so yeah maybe he should’ve coached better
> There’s only so many games. Isn't that a good reason to look at all the games and not hyper fixate on one of them?
It’s amazing fans still point to the Tartt drop , which would have been a punt, and ignore Niners did nothing in the 2nd half offensively. There was a ton of time left in the game , it wasn’t like it would have been a game sealing int.
Iirc they're line was super banged up they had a guard at tackle and a hobbled Jimmy G while the Rams had prime Donald and Miller. Yeah you better win that game convincingly.
Mcvay had the playoff win, a Super Bowl, and a better overall record
I mean, is losing in the 10th minute of the overtime of the SB really that much different than winning, coaching wise?
Tier 1: Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan Tier 2: Dan Campbell, Matt LaFleur, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin Tier 3: Kevin Stefanski, Shane Steichen, DeMeco Ryans, Sean McDermott, Mike McDaniel Tier 4: Sean Payton, Kevin O’Connell, Mike McCarthy, Brian Daboll Tier 5: Doug Pederson, Nick Sirianni, Jonathan Gannon, Zac Taylor Tier 6: Robert Saleh, Raheem Morris, Dan Quinn, Matt Eberflus, Todd Bowles, Dennis Allen Unknown: Mike McDonald, Antonio Pierce, Jerod Mayo, Brian Callahan, Dave Canales
Does Reid have an argument for his own tier? I don't feel strongly about it but 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and with different iterations of the team (offense-focused vs defense-focused) is pretty crazy.
I think it depends on what you're measuring. Reid is certainly the most successful/"greatest" active coach by quite a bit, but coaching Patrick Mahomes is the easiest job in the NFL. Back when he was coaching McNabb (a good QB in his own right) he had similar success to Shanahan and McVay, so putting those three in a tier seems fair if you're trying to measure coaching ability
Is Mahomes as good as he is now if he was somewhere else? Reid is a fantastic QB/offensive minded coach.
I tend to think that talent makes itself known. Justin Herbert is a great example, he's been playing like a top QB with a bad coaching situation around him for most of his career.
I think it’s an interesting convo. IMO Mahomes would still be good, I’ll bet slightly below the level he is now with probably 2/3rds of the teams in the league. A good OC helps just as much as a head coach. Look at Lamar with Harbaugh who is not an offensive minded coach, Goff w/ Campbell, Burrow with Taylor who not a lot of people talk about, Allen with McDermott, etc. Then you have the teams that are just dumpster fires and pretty much any QB would have trouble succeeding there.
Great coaches get the most out of talent though. We’ve seen QBs have their best years under Reid, I think Mahomes is no exception.
We’ve also seen Reid have his best years when he has Mahomes. His playoff win percentage in KC went from 20% to 83% with the QB change
I'm sure Reid helps Mahomes a lot, yeah. But to introduce another hypothetical, I bet Shanahan and McVay would do pretty damn well with Mahomes too.
He's probably good, but not as good. He needed a year under a steady, experienced hand to work out his mechanical kinks and develop as a NFL QB. If he goes to a different situation, he likely gets rushed into starting and shows flashes, but isn't as consistently good.
Lol sweet, it's the "Is is Brady or is it Bill?" conversation all over again.
Well he was about the same tier as the rest when he didn't have mahomes. I'd say the crazy success is a mix of coaching and having mahomes.
Did he look like he was on his own tier before he got Mahomes? Because from my memory he did not. In fact I mostly remember people slagging his clock management, not saying he was the best HC in the NFL.
of course, he's a top 10 coach all time, and homer take but he's top 5
Honestly not a homer take
> Tier 5: Zac Taylor Taylor has his issues but this is just hater shit
I feel like him and Kevin O’Connell are both too low.
Brian Daboll and Kevin O'Connell are higher than him in that guy's rankings.
It’s cool, I love that the NFL keeps sleeping on Cincinnati..MFers forgot that they gotta play us but will remember when the season starts.
Todd Bowles needs to be at least tier 4. Zac Taylor should be at least tier 3 Dan Quinn and Raheem Morris belong in the same tier (both first year with this team, solid DCs who flamed put in their only previous HC position for an NFC South team)
I agree 1000%. Bowles should be higher especially after this season. And Zac Taylor should get more credit for the bengals. The fact that they went from the worst team in the NFL to a Super Bowl appearance only 2 seasons later speaks volumes
Yeah. I think zac Taylor is the example of a coach learning on the job. He wasn’t a good coach in the beginning but he had a bad team. But zac Taylor did learn to be better. Deserves some Commendation
Yeah as a homer my big gripe is Zac Taylor being lower than Sean freaking 9/11 McDermott
Bowles straight giving up in the playoffs this year was a bit concerning, but yeah he's not saleh or eberflus tier yeesh
That's why I figure about the McCarthy area. Not top tier, buy no where near that bad.
Forgot about Morris’s stint in the late 2000’s. Good catch.
Morris didn't really flame out, did he? Seems like he was dealt a really shitty hand in Tampa.
Kinda both, honestly. The team wasn't great after the 08 collapse, and Josh Freeman didn't develop as hoped, but it was pretty clear that he wasn't ready for the position and was getting worse after going 10-6 his second year. The team seemed to be checked out on him by like week 7 in 2011. I think a better GM than Mark Dominic could have made it a whole different story, but I don't think he did himself any favors in 2011, either.
I'm sorry but Payton, KOC, Daboll, and *McCarthy*?
Lol there's no way McCarthy belongs lower than that group if that's what you mean
Tomlin 2 tiers above Payton and McCarthy is the real question mark
Kevin O’Connell was very good last year with no qb, Saleh has been pretty good for having no QB too
I’m in the camp that Saleh isn’t really that good of a HC. He’s had how three seasons to prove he’s “him” but hasn’t. He was losing the locker room last year and the leak about taking staffs phone… He hasn’t been fortunate with the QB situation but good (or in your words, pretty good) coaches find ways to get results regardless. Tomlin, for an extreme example, dragged Kenny Pickett and Mason Rudolph to the playoffs.
Confused as to what Steichen has done that KOC has not.
Took a 4-12 team to 9-8 with a backup QB, also gets praised for the offensive scheme he put in. Just saying, don't necessarily agree it's correct to put him above KOC.
Super Bowl winning coach Doug Pederson in the Jonathan Gannon tier is wild.
Dan Campbell should be his own category.
Call me a hater if you want, but I’d trade John Harbaugh & Kyle Shanahan. I view them basically as equals, but John has a ring and Kyle’s got 3 legendary chokes (including the most recent iteration where a failure to understand and communicate the overtime rules may have cost his team a title)
I think this current ranking is fair. Shanahan has gotten further, more times, more recently. He's done great with Purdy who, as we all know, was the last pick in the draft. He's a more hands-on coach when it comes to play-calling whereas Harbs is more of a management/culture coach and less about X's and O's so I guess you can debate on which aspect is better for a HC. Otherwise, Harbs' ring is from a decade ago. So, yeah that should be taken into account, but for how long does that entitle you to be considered a great coach when compared to other active coaches? (I mean, even Bill got sent packing after a few disappointing seasons. If anyone deserved to rest on their laurels for a bit, it'd be him.) Our past few playoff appearances have been pretty disappointing; not just because we lost, but the manner in which we lost. Harbs is great so I'm not shitting on him. I'm just saying at this point, I can see Shanahan getting ranked above him. It's close though.
Man this place quickly forgot how good Sean Payton is.
I think anybody old enough would put him in tier 2. Teenagers may think he's some TV personality but he's got a record of 169-105 to McDaniel 20-16 to name one example.
Doug pederson is better than O’Connell, and Daboll.
For his career yeah, no doubt. What KOC was able to do with four different QBs last yearand with keeping the team competitive, it was sort of a minor miracle.
Without question better than Daboll
Daboll has gotten the worst roster in the league to win a playoff game, then had an UDFA third string QB winning games. Giants were 3 plays (within their own control) from winning 9 games last year. Y’all really overestimate the talent on the team if you think he’s not an incredible coach
The Daboll disrespect is unreal
Every team has a couple games they lost that they were “one play away” from winning. They won 6 games last year, let’s be honest, they sucked. They had the 3rd worst point differential in the league
We are the champions of "*if only one play went different*" moral victories.
Like seriously how may active Super Bowl winning coaches are there. Not to mention he turned around terrible jags team that had back to back number 1 overall picks.
Doug Pederson has 1 season where his team got over 9 wins. Besides that Miraculous 2017 season, he's most just led his teams to mediocrity. They're not ranking him on his 2017 season with a different team.
Yeah, the two years before he got to Jax, they won a combined four games and they’ve had back to back winning seasons since he got there and won a playoff game. That alone puts him above tier 5 and that’s without even acknowledging the ring in Philly.
Sirianni has a .667 win percentage (34-17). I do not think he is top 10, but putting him one layer above the bottom is silly. He is at the very least, Tier 4 pushing Tier 3.
Glad MLF is getting the respect he deserves. All that talk about how he was holding Rodgers back, and now it seems very much like it was the other way around.
It’s not the other way around. They both were integral parts to the Packers winning 39 games over three seasons, one of the most successful stretches in NFL history. They just couldn’t get over the hump together, and I think Rodgers, MLF, Gute, and the football gods all share the blame for that.
My brain immediately read MLF as milf.
[Schefter] Zach Wilson has demanded a trade to the Green Bay Packers
Huh? Neither of those opinions make any sense. MLF brought Aaron back to MVP form and the team last year was worse than the MLF/Aaron teams.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh, in Lafleur’s first season it was “hes holding Rodgers back”. Then the narrative shifted to “Rodgers is carrying Lafleur’s offense”. People really jumped that halfway through last season, which was obviously worse but does that matter? He had Aaron fucking Rodgers, and then spent half a season masterfully working out the kinks in Jordan Love and turned him into a stud. This isn’t Aaron Rodgers hate btw, this is pointing out that his game was different than that of the coach at first.
I couldn’t tell from the 4 seconds that Rodgers played without MLF before popping his Achilles, what did I miss that made it so clear?
The 2 seasons before MLF got there
Sean McDermott is probably the most underrated coach in the league. He consistently puts out good defenses
.... Except when it really counts :(
When was the last time the Bills defense was bad/terrible? Seems like they've had a pretty consistent average-above average defense for the past decade or so that has carried the team at some points
Every time they play the Chiefs in the playoffs. He is also terrible at clock management and substitutions. Until (if) he beats Reid in the playoffs he will be second rate.
They dominate teams that are under .500 defensively then give up 25-30 every time they play someone good. It’s why vs the Chiefs and Bengals in the playoffs the Bills defense averages 31ppg allowed. McDermott can’t coach vs the elite.
Nah Sean McDermott is an asshole. I’ve never seen a super star QB be let down more by his coach than Allen with McDermott. There are literally thousands of people who think Allen isn’t a top 5 QB because he hasn’t won yet but he has delivered the goods to win time and time again and every time mcdermott has some stupid coaching error that cost them the game. When you consider the media narrative determines awards, McDermott has single handedly shaped a HOF QB to not even being worthy of a second team all pro. Even though he’s on pace for the most TDs rushing by a QB all time and to be top 6-7 in passing all time. It’s just wild.
I feel like Andy should be in a tier of his own. Along with the enormous success he’s had throughout his career and over the last six years, *far* more than anyone else. Specifically his good coaching decisions and Shanahan’s poor coaching decisions were key factors that lead to the Chiefs winning.
I feel like Daboll belongs in tier 5. One 9-7 season should not get you in the same tier as Sean Payton
Did you see that teams roster?
Yeah it was awful. But one overachieving season doesn’t mean you’re a good coach
Shane Steichen will move into the top 5 after this year
Cincinnati's Taylor not being on that list is hilarious.
Lafleur keeps getting disrespected. He’s better than Tomlin
Stefanski lmao
That's 2 time coach of the year Stefanski lmao. He also has 0 bankruptcies.
McVay and Shanahan is a toss up - can't really be mad at whichever one ends up at 2.
Seeing a Lions coach on this list just warms my cold dead heart.
I wonder where Nick Siriani was last year o this list?
Lions coach at 7 is wild
Why do we value old accolades so much? Harbaugh has 3 playoff wins since his SB win, Tomlin has 3 since his last SB appearance. It seems odd to rank the lower than guys like McDermott or LaFleur who have as much or more success in less time.
All I know is Dan Campbell is the runaway winner in terms of vibes. He seems like the most awesome coach to play for ever.
Tomlin ranks 5th. Time to sit back and wait for the nutcase Steeler fans to show up here talking about “he’s overrated, Steelers should fire him, never had a losing record is irrelevant”. Yinz move, dumbass Steelers fans