Omgosh. This is fkn saying SOMETHING. What the hell is happening? I know Healthcare and Housing is provincial... but how is all of the money that's been given out by the feds being distributed... I feel sick to my stomach. I'm so sorry for you and your friend's loss. Virtual hugs... (I know it's corny but being held does wonders).
We need to fight for it. Stand up and be heard. Go to Ontario Health Coalition online. Sign petitions. Go to their next rally. I just went May 30 in Toronto. Over 10,000 attended. Doctors and politicians talked about how Ford and his health minister are trying to privatize. They are fighting hard for us so join the fight if you care.
Articles like this will propel private health care. It's a perfect show pony for Doug Ford to say "look public health care isn't working, we need private healthcare to avoid instances like this".
For most Ontarians this will be the "hell yeah, I don't mind paying for private healthcare if that means I won't die in an emergency room".
Their agenda is moving just as planned.
Fuck Doug Ford.
I wouldn't consider sitting on cash to be 'funding the system'
We also need major efficiencies like not having doctors bogged down in paper work, not requiring doctors visits to simply refill a prescription, etc.
As someone that witnessed corruption of millions in funding to Hospital units that never received a SINGLE patient during COVID, but they got the money.
Contrary to the belief that the country's health-care system is underfunded, Canada already operates one of the most expensive health-care systems in the world.Feb 4, 2023
Contrary to the belief that the country's health-care system is underfunded, Canada already operates one of the most expensive health-care systems in the world.Feb 4, 2023
Was talking to a friend last week who is married with two young kids feel the same way you do but also just joined a $500/month private care group so his family could have access to family medicine. "What am I supposed to do? I have kids I need to be able to get a doctor"
This is exactly how the conservatives want it to play out. Unless you are extremely well off, I don't know how you can defend the policies Ford and others. I don't understand why people vote against what's best for themselves
Given our provincial government... there has always been a lot of hatred, no matter which party is presiding.
When it comes to the high taxes we pay, in canada, even Americans are saying it's not worth the free Healthcare.
Healthcare should be a human right... but at what cost?
Doctors, nurses are being squeezed to the point that their physical and mental health is just a "cost" to our system right now... and it's not just in our province... it's all over Canada.
There is funding, but it's not been used in a responsible way for several years.
Where tf are the funds going?
Paying the higher ups higher salaries, I bet.
I do not want private healthcare for one reason and one reason only. We already pay extremely high taxes for our healthcare to be covered. I do not want to pay extremely high taxes and then an additional high premium to get the healthcare that I deservedly pay for through my extremely high taxes. I will not do that and I will fight tooth and nail not to do that.
Totally agree. That’s WHY we pay such high taxes. If were going to do an American system, I hope they will lower taxes and let us have access to private insurance to pay for it, but I think it will ultimately be high taxes AND pay full price out of pocket for private surgeries, tests. There’s no incentive to do better here
Same in the UK. Tax payers cover Healthcare.
And you're correct.. there is no incentive to do better here.
I see the initiatives of some government groups.. but with funding for Housing and Healthcare (which are provincial) we are falling ever so short.
The problem with the "ya I don't mind paying for private health care" sounds all well and good but what about all the people that can't? And I also hope people are aware that private companies would come in and offer great rates that would entice people. We know how it is in the states... healthcare is for profit. They are not there to lose money. Premiums would be increased to the point like it is in the states where you friggin well go bankrupt. Private healthcare also has a cap. People can be denied treatment as well. Things need to be approved and insurance companies do not like to pay out. People better remember that when they're at the polls because private health insurance is not a good thing for Canada. Our parents and grandparents fought hard to get us this universal healthcare and it can be fixed
From the article, I never got the impression the emergency dept. did anything wrong. He was looked at and from the equipment, it was deduced that fella would pull out of it. Sadly when a lot of factors add up, he didn't make it, a further report on his demise is needed before I would point fingers.
Using this example to propel private health care, is just not going to cut it for me. All our social services are struggling as more and more people are swamping existing services and all levels of government are aware to the issue. The leaders have an agenda that is in-consistent with the average Canadian, but fall into place for a specialty group that has no need of Canada's Health Care System; and prefer the privilege of money.
Firstly, it’s not Doug Ford- it’s every provincial government for the past 25 years.
Secondly, we already have two tiered health care. Those who can afford to go across the border and those who can’t.
Might as well face that public health care cannot keep up.
But it can, you said it yourself, our Healthcare has been choked out by the last 25 years of provincial politics. Maybe we should stop electing the ones killing it...
There was no reason given. He's intentionally withholding health care funding because he is pushing private health care. As in terms of alcohol being sold in convenience stores anyone's guess is as good as mine. It's most likely a tactic to distract the public from some other shady deals he is making behind the scenes.
He is in deep with Loblaws that's why beer in grocery stores
They put Galen Weston's first cousin on the LCBO board as part of all of this a few years ago
Same answer as to why even after the CBC exposed the massive unethical over-billing of medschecks the Ministry did nothing and said nothing even though they pay for all of these illegitimate services and it's extremely easy to pass an Executive Officer notice to change the kind of thing CBC exposed (that is still being done unchallenged today)
I'm retarded but not that retarded, I'm not a fan of what Pierre has been saying about immigration, Bernier is the guy for that but doesn't have a chance. It feels like we're being held hostage at the moment by our government.
Like lobbyists, globalists, military/corporate contracts for friends, even activist groups influencing every level of government. Middle class is getting gutted and no longer has any influence.
Yes lol, Doug Ford is all for foreign students because it means he doesn't have to fund colleges and universities. He's also very pro labour immigration as well. If you think he's anti immigrant you haven't been paying attention.
I don't think we can have both unfortunately. What incentive would it give nurses and doctors to work in public healthcare over private healthcare? It would erode public healthcare completely.
On top of that I don't think we would ever see any reduction in taxes to fund said healthcare. We would just be paying another "health tax" on top of our already tax collected money.
Don’t think you need to worry about the incentive part, it’s already stupid easy for any nurse to go down to the United States to work if they wanted to. Wife and I have been thinking about it ourselves. She already has friends who have done just that with no regrets. Allowing private insurance like Australia would only improve the system for everybody. Faster access for those who can and want to pay, and less strain in the public system.
Honestly, that wasn’t even the inevitability I was referring to, but that is also an inevitability. The one I was talking about was the collapse of the healthcare system
Oh it’s one of \*those\* subreddits, ok, fair enough, any kind of r/niagara2 type of subreddit I could check out? Kinda interested to see what niagarans who aren’t detached from reality say
Sure pal.
The auditor general laid out exactly how Doug Ford starved our healthcare system out of 10billion dollars over the last 5 years we don’t wanna talk about that…
But “iT WAs inEViTaBle”
This is exactly why CONSERVATIVES shouldn’t control healthcare. Private healthcare costs more, pays less, and only helps upper middle class and above. Do half a backflip bootlicker.
>Private healthcare costs more/pays less
Only in the US, which isn't a real private system (it doesn't count if they spend more then we do on healthcare through government funds alone)
>Only helps upper middle class and above
You know those things about barber poles? Yeah, getting healthcare used to be cheap and easy, especially in the US, before the government stepped in
>Bootlicker
Ahh yes, wanting \*less\* government control makes \*me\* the bootlicker
Loblaws will own Ontario soon enough.
https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/loblaw-takes-75-million-stake-in-largest-virtual-healthcare-provider-in-canada
Only fools would opt for the U.S. system. Canadians live longer than Americans. Why? Our healthcare is better. Number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the U.S. - medical bills. If you have a prior condition (high blood pressure?) and you are over 40, insurance becomes unaffordable unless you can get into a union job with benefits.
Honestly, if he tore it down that would be better but he's not going to do that
This is about making money, it's not ideological
Which means many people need to get screwed to create those larger profits
He's purposely tanking public health care so he can "fix" the problem he created with private healthcare only his weather doner friends can afford to facilitate and profit from. It's been obvious for anyone living in the province and even easier to see being married to a health care provider
Having a private system that helps fund a public system is not a bad idea. We don't need a private system that equals or replaces anything it can be used to alleviate wait times for things like hip replacements and surgeries. Canada already sends thousands of patients south for [treatment ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-to-send-cancer-patients-to-u-s-for-radiation-treatment-1.6399653)when the system is overloaded why not have our own system?
Nope just someone whos lived between 5 different countries born in Aus lived in Canada, US, Germany and England. Germany and Aus by far the best healthcare systems. Canada without a doubt last. I had better healthcare coverage when I spent 2 summers in Thailand vs Canada. In Canada i couldn't even see a doctor without lining up outside a clinic at 7am with 30 other people multiple days in a row only to be turned away before i even got to the door. Telehealth has helped but to actually see a doctor is brutal.
Canadians just cant handle being told their systems have turned to shit. I was told it would take nearly 12 months to see a dermatologist for a mole check. Flew back to Aus got it checked in 2 days. It was malignant.. So ya it could have been stage 4 by the time i saw a doctor in Canada. My best Canadians friends parents both DIED in Canada from mishandled cancer diagnosis. Im not a shill just someone who tells Canadians the truth of my experiences 🤷♂️
I am not saying that our system is pefect. I am saying that the current provincial government is attempting to purposely make the health system so bad that they can convince the people to compliment a private sector. I agree to the Healthcare System is not running efficiently but I don't believe that this is because doctors and nurses are lazy I believe this is the Ford government delivery cutting funding from important parts of the infrastructure to destroy the system from within to promote a private option. Who profits from that private option? Doug Ford's donor Buddies
This is such a tired, old, talking point. I don't disagree about the state of healthcare, but new material is needed. This is just a ridiculous excuse for a system that hasn't ran well in decades. An overhaul is needed, but anytime a government tries, people lose their minds.
Something has to change, but when people scream "we want change!" And then when the government changes something, scream "not THAT change!!" Nothing will get done.
Yeah when we talk about change we mean going from barely funding our system to funding our system well. Not change as in going from barely funding our system to not funding it enough to sustain itself. Either you you know that full well and are just a shit stick, or you are really the most ignorant person in this comment section.
85 billion dollars is barely funding? Fix the system and process before asking for more, shit stick. The system has needed an overhaul for decades. More money isn't the answer. You sound like the guy who wins a million bucks and is broke again within a few years.
“Ontario's total spending per capita of $13,065 was the lowest among the provinces and $3,338, or 20.4 per cent, below the rest of Canada average, which is $16,403”
We are shorting our system badly, fucking PEI has better funding than us. You sound like the guy to pay 3/4 of your rent and wonder why you’re getting evicted.
What i cant understand is why Canada doesn't look towards the Australian style of healthcare. It's quite superior but of course has flaws. They have a Hybrid private/public system.
Except if you look at the Australian system, public wait times *doubled* in the first year after the introduction of a private option.
You have two doors. One is private, one is public. There is still the same number of healthcare workers. Private pays more and has less complicated cases. Who will get the majority of staffing?
It’s an obvious answer.
Private doesn’t solve anything except provide care for those who can afford it. Once you become too sick you’re pawned off to the public system where you will be in an overburdened system. Furthermore, look at how well for profit nursing homes fairer during the pandemic. You were much more likely to die in a for profit nursing home as opposed to not for profit.
Publicly funded healthcare is not going away. Not now. Not ever. Other parties like to throw around the big, bad P word like we're going to an American style model.
Change needs to happen. And it won't be comfortable. Throwing more money at it doesn't fix issues.
Bro I’m not even saying throw more money
At least put back what they took away lately lol
They’re starving the system to benefit the private sector. Do you not realize this? If they want to try to open private clinics, go ahead, but don’t starve the public system and make us suffer so that his friends can benefit.
Honestly? If we could go to a real market healthcare (not the US’s government protected and funded monopoly), I’d rather that over this “free” healthcare
That's exactly what they should try to implement, but people lose their shit. They want more money thrown at the problem, but the process doesn't change. So then nothing changes.
People in Canada are nuts when it comes to Healthcare. Talk about some private services and people look at you like you killed their family. Meanwhile many services are already privately run, but people don't realize it.
People flip out over the idea of a Hybrid private/public system when Canada already sends thousands of patients to the US for [treatment ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-to-send-cancer-patients-to-u-s-for-radiation-treatment-1.6399653) each year and those tens of millions of dollars go right into the pocket of US healthcare.
This is a tired response and an old talking point from the perspective of privilege. No one wants private health care except the ones who will profit from it. Wealthy people already have private doctors to go to. Public sector health care keeps the proletariats healthy and able to work. Private health care will decimate low wage earners and create more poverty and debt load. People will leave Ontario. You think the TFWs and those seeking PR will be able to afford healthcare living 12 to a 2 bedroom house while working at Tim's?
Yes. This is correct, wise person. Free public healthcare is one of the only reasons why anyone would want to live in Canada. Yes of course, it isn’t really “free” but what that term means, is that even the poorest and those on the margins are entitled to healthcare as human beings. This is in direct opposition to the social darwinist ideologists that flock to the bastrd Con party. Stand your ground. Wealthy elitists will always have access to their own selfish means to healthcare. That is not a cogent argument against publicly funded healthcare for any sane person. Stay sane. Stay away from Cons.
My aunt died because of bullshit too.
The nurse was sleeping and she was code blue for 45 minuets.
Didn’t hear any bells. She slept through it.
She’s not the first in my family to die thanks to the shitty hospitals within the past 4 years.
I am highly triggered and so hurt for her and her family because I know how shitty the system is.
*edit to clarify. Her alarm was going off that she was coding. The nurse was asleep. No one was able to call code blue over the speaker because SHE WAS ASLEEP ON A GURNEY. The only other nurse said she was “doing her rounds” and fell upon my aunt. Dead.*
When the one person in the ward is asleep on a gurney. Because there is only one nurse on over nights. No one else heard the bell. If someone did, my aunt would still be here asshole
As a nurse I can say it absolutely is. What has been done is unforgivable. I wish people knew the ethical dilemma we face. You don’t become a nurse for material reasons, but how can we care for others if it means being homeless? Times up for government and corporations they need to pay our worth and improve our working conditions.
[Labour market information - Registered Nurse (R.N.)](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/993/ON)
[Labour Market Information - Licensed Practical Nurse (L.P.N.)](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/4383/ON)
TLDR: no, they’re not typically making ~$50 per hour
The average is still around $40 per hour… again I do not see how that is a wage that would equal homelessness. That comment is incredibly tone deaf to those who are actually struggling.
The median salary for an RN isn’t really relevant to the well-being of the majority of nurses who are paid less than that (including *all* RPNs). According to the source I linked a Registered Practical Nurse in Ontario may be paid as little as ~$22 per hour. It doesn’t take much imagination to picture circumstances where an RPN could be *”actually struggling”* at that pay grade given the cost of housing , food, and childcare, the tendency of employers to offer part time positions, etc.
Yeah but I think generally when we talk about “nurses” in this context, we’re talking about RNs. Not RPNs. The difference in education and skills between RN AND RPN is huge. RPN isn’t far off from PSW.
$40/hr becomes $0 per hour pretty quick when you work one of the most stressful jobs someone can have in this country.
Are you guys missing all of the discussion here about the nightmare working conditions resulting in patient deaths?
We're talking about skilled and educated people suddenly finding themselves without a job because they're not comfortable with killing someone.
Going on disability means they can't pay their bills anymore. I think we can all agree that disability does not cover the cost of living.
I don't care who you are or what you do. If you lose 40% of your income suddenly, that's a problem for anyone without a strong support system.
In fact, in order to live on disability it generally requires someone to relocate to a small town with a lower cost of living.
Does this person have children? Does the relocation mean erasing any support system you had?
Now, what happens when that person is ready to work again?
Relocating back to the city is not an option anymore.
Burnout can easily mean homelessness
That's... That's just not true, and I'm struggling to understand how you got that number, based on the links posted.
The median in Ontario for an LPN is $30. On top of that, the median isn't equal to the average. Based on those links I don't know how many people make the high end or the low end of those ranges, and neither do you, so it's impossible for you to calculate an average from that information. Please do better.
Average salary of Ontario RN is $80,000; and 25% of the nurses are on the sunshine list.
Poverty line for a single individual in Ontario is about $30k income. Average salary in Ontario is $55k
99% of that upper echelon are public funded hospitals
Every RPN and LPN at any private LTC are doing $18-$19 per hour
Apply for some RPN jobs at any private facility and find out
Do you have first hand knowledge of the wages of a private facility? From the past few years? I do.
I don't know any RPN or LPN positions that pay less than 20 an hour, most of them are high 20s+ , even for private LTC.
100k is now mid-level management, the Sunshine list isnt as relevant as it used to be. Inflation over time matters.
Corporations freezing salary levels have also made 1980s salaries the same as today, which is beyond pathetic.
The dollars being sucked out of the system by billionaires has to come from somewhere!
You’re distorting what was said, the bottom rungs with low pay, irregular shifts and unpredictable placements are the problem. Nursing hasnt been the ‘sure thing’ of previous generations for some time.
Also the hellish work demands post-COVID and with Ford cuts takes a heavy toll.
We need improved working conditions but its misrepresentative to claim we are at risk for homelessness.
Unable to afford to buy a home today in most of the province? Yes, like almost everyone else.
At risk for homelessness? Not even close.
Not enough homes, not enough good paying job, not enough doctors and nurses; before we make commitments to immigrants, how about we make sure we can actually help the people that paid into the system all their lives?
Isn't that a problem for the last 20 years. Most of these problems are linked to other things from previous governments. Just look at climate change: cost alone this year will be astounding. But tax payers will fit the bill. It's going to be billions. I don't know many companies in Canada that are worth a billion dollars. Were unhinged.
I think our federal governments other than Mulroney and the Trudeau's all had redeeming qualities; however, my standards are low for the feds.. I'm just happy when a federal government isn't actively trying to turn our economy into Argentina. Provincially it seems like every premier since Robarts has been worse than their predecessor and we re now at the point where there are absolute utter morons in Ottawa and Queens Park. I cannot figure out how so many non 1%ers vote for Ford especially when our health care system is in ruins. Climate change... we're doomed - maybe that's why JT is shredding borrowed and printed money like it wont matter how things are in 100 years.
First problem : HealthCare is underfunded.
Second problem : Hospitals budget poorly.
Third problem: People come into ER with non-emergencies that clog up the hospital beds.
Fourth problem: People don't plan for where they/their family will go when older, clogging up beds.
Fifth problem: People refuse to take their family members home. You'd be shocked how many people drop seniors off at the hospital and never answer their phone again....
This guy any the first time this has happened in Niagara, and sadly, it won’t be the last. Nothing is going to change until it happens to one of these politicians or their children.
Meanwhile you know what isn’t making headlines? How the province is pissing away how many millions to restructure home care yet again… for absolutely zero reason.
Welland hospital ER is possibly one of the worst I have ever encountered, my family member almost died in their care, had it not been for a mothers refusal to leave because she knew something was wrong, they would have sent an extremely ill patient home to “sleep it off in bed” and she would not have woken up. Spend any amount of time in there at a loved one’s bedside and you will overhear more than you could ever care to, and unless you are placed by the nurses station in the curtained areas, you are either in a hallway or a tiny room with very little monitoring going on because the staff are stretched too thin and have not surprisingly become jaded and lacking in compassion as a result.
Not to mention the case of a friend of my wife. Almost same situation, this fellow's wife had high fever, emerg said she was ok, just a fever and go home. Over night got worse and next morning headed to hospital in Hamilton and she died. Thanks to gngh, he is widowed and three kids have no mommy. However, dougie has no problem spending a billion in order to get booze into corner stores early, spending I don't even know how many billions on twinning a bridge in St. Cath. that's not necessary, handing billions to trillion dollar companies to make batteries, but doesn't really give a damn if people die from poor health care. To be fair, I don't know if more money would make a difference when some of the health care providers are incompetent.
I’m so sorry for their loss. But I’m not sure how much of this specific case is really the fault of the hospital. If the patient had stable vitals, no fever, bloodwork normal, I’m not sure that they missed anything. Being in the ER versus a ward bed doesn’t change much either, in fact in ER the staff are often critical care trained and the doctors are more present than overnight on the floor. So in an emergency they were some of the best equipped people.
The hospital system is not receiving the funding or staffing it needs. But an 88 year old man passing away in his sleep is the main indicator of this.
In fact part of the burden of the healthcare system is this belief that everyone must live forever. Not every incidence of someone dying is immediately malpractice. It’s sad and emotional. But I’m hesitant to point fingers based on this article alone.
Underfunded healthcare system, not enough good doctors, too many people + I don’t think there are enough doctors included in the amount of people flooding the country (refugees/immigrants) to help the patient to doctor ratio imbalance
I don’t know. I’m probably wrong…
It took my Dad, 65, hours to be seen with diabetic ketoacidosis and longer to be treated. His type 1 diabetes is managed very well but something happened, maybe an infection, that threw him into crisis out of nowhere. He was in the ICU for days and who knows what damage was done to his body, and he almost died.
Same thing happened 3 weeks later in Halifax and he was on IV within 20 minutes. He walked out feeling normal the next day!!
This condition is recognizable instantly - just looking at his blood sugar level on his pump!
I’m sorry for her loss but at 88 you are a walking, talking, tickling bomb. Perhaps HC could have prolonged the inevitable a bit but at what cost to life quality?
I received very poor care from a hospital in GTA. Don’t want to go into specifics, just wanted to say that the amount of incompetence and complete lack of concern when I was declining lead to me to “the brink of death” according to the doctor who DID get it right.
I’m a nurse, and I’m not pretending to know everything, but I was very shocked at the standard of care. It’s unfortunate that I live 5 mins away from this particular hospital. In the case of emergency I’d rather be redirected to the town a couple of cities over. If I die, I die. I really don’t want to have to go back to that hospital.
That 88 year old probably paid taxes all his life and was promised compassionate ,competent in exchange but the government is too busy looking after migrants,refugee’s and immigrants.
That 88 year old is as entitled to care like anyone else and before foreign grifters.
My friend, you had me until you got all xenophobic.
Health care is handled at the provincial level, immigration is a federal policy.
It's fairly well known Dougie's, and the Conservatives in general, distaste, for people that aren't white Canadians.
What Dougie likes is making his friends richer, which is why you're seeing cuts in public health and a push to privatization and the standard of care dropping.
I think the issue here is that he was in the emergency department for several days without any real care. He may have died no matter what kind of care he got, but that he didn't get care meant he didn't even have a chance.
100% , imagine being sick and having absolute chaos surrounding you 24/7. I’m an ER nurse and on some nights it’s so busy and loud you don’t even realize it’s night and we just have patients in every hallway.
Where does it say that he went “without any real care”? Doctors assess and treat while in ER. They were running tests. He had no fever. His vitals were being monitored and were stable. Could they have missed something? Absolutely. Doctors are human too and can miss things. But just because he wasn’t admitted on a floor doesn’t mean he wasn’t getting adequate care.
I am so sorry for this family’s loss. A sudden and unexpected passing is devastating.
That being said, there is no evidence that this gentleman received sub-standard care. There’s no way of knowing for certain, but this gentleman may very well have passed away anyway even if he was admitted onto a floor. The elderly can get very sick very quickly, often with little-to-no warning.
Should people be stuck in ER for days being treated? Absolutely not. Our healthcare system is in crisis, and has been for a while. The message of this article is a dog whistle for privatizing our system, which I am against. We need to fix the already broken system that we have.
So many downvotes on comments that make sense lol. People love to believe Ford broke our healthcare. It’s always been horrible. It’s definitely worse now but that’s because we have no staff and too many patients. The government is repsinsi by e for funding the hospitals and they’ve been failing that for years. Long before ford. (No I’m not saying private healthcare is the answer either)
Well honestly if we do not privatize healthcare… it’s going to get a whole lot worse.
The boomers are going to hit their 80s over the next two decades. If you think it’s bad now… you are going to find out just how bad it can be.
This is going to happen regularly. (Honestly I don’t think we will privatize and a just a lot of Grandma’s and Grandpa’s will go for a dirt nap in the waiting areas of areas of hospitals)
20 years ago I was a hospital manager and one of the interview questions for new nurses was, "Patients survive *despite* being in the hospital, not because they're in the hospital. What are your thoughts on that?". That came from HR.
Sorry for her loss. My dad (82) had the complete opposite experience a few months ago. The Milton District hospital literally saved his life after waiting to the 11th hour before going to emergency.
So, judging from these comments, I should be thanking not just the nurses and doctors but Doug Ford, too?
I know you're trying hard, but this metric isn't the most accurate. Sorry about your luck. Maybe if all the needs across the entire country were identical it would be, but they're not.
More money is not going to fix a systemically flawed and broken model.
I’m a primary care doctor in Ontario. This is terribly sad and I’m sorry for the family’s loss. Also, people need to understand that just because someone dies, does not mean that something was missed or a mistake was made. This man was 88…regardless of how healthy he was, he has a high mortality risk with any illness.
The Canadian healthcare system is absolutely broken, but there is no amount of overall that is going to save the lives of acutely ill 88 year olds.
My friend's wife died at gngh in the waiting room from a ruptured appendix. It's horrible .....
Omgosh. This is fkn saying SOMETHING. What the hell is happening? I know Healthcare and Housing is provincial... but how is all of the money that's been given out by the feds being distributed... I feel sick to my stomach. I'm so sorry for you and your friend's loss. Virtual hugs... (I know it's corny but being held does wonders).
In Ontario, Doug Ford is shooting a lot of it to the private system. Horrible PC's!!!
I've just about had it. Something needs to be done.
We need to fight for it. Stand up and be heard. Go to Ontario Health Coalition online. Sign petitions. Go to their next rally. I just went May 30 in Toronto. Over 10,000 attended. Doctors and politicians talked about how Ford and his health minister are trying to privatize. They are fighting hard for us so join the fight if you care.
Articles like this will propel private health care. It's a perfect show pony for Doug Ford to say "look public health care isn't working, we need private healthcare to avoid instances like this". For most Ontarians this will be the "hell yeah, I don't mind paying for private healthcare if that means I won't die in an emergency room". Their agenda is moving just as planned. Fuck Doug Ford.
Yea it should be 'healthcare system is underfunded'
Is that really accurate? I'm pretty sure the province has the money, they just... Aren't using it.
I wouldn't consider sitting on cash to be 'funding the system' We also need major efficiencies like not having doctors bogged down in paper work, not requiring doctors visits to simply refill a prescription, etc.
Removing the 10 administrators to 1 primary care giver would be a good idea too
Everywhere is WAYY too top heavy, i don't need 14 managers when we can barely scrape together 2 staff for a shift.
Heresy!!!
So, like, they are underfunding the healthcare system by not funding it with the money the province has.
Yeah exactly. The money the province has that is already specifically earmarked to be spent on healthcare but is just... Not being spent.
There’s not enough doctors, they all leaving Canada.
Which is absolutely true.... Annnd why we are having this conversation. Here. Right now.
Canada spends A LOT on healthcare. It’s mismanaged and very inefficient and lacking innovation
As someone that witnessed corruption of millions in funding to Hospital units that never received a SINGLE patient during COVID, but they got the money.
Contrary to the belief that the country's health-care system is underfunded, Canada already operates one of the most expensive health-care systems in the world.Feb 4, 2023
Contrary to the belief that the country's health-care system is underfunded, Canada already operates one of the most expensive health-care systems in the world.Feb 4, 2023
Thanks Doug.
It’s not though. It’s mismanaged.
That doesn’t sound like something I could lay on Dougie’s lap. That sounds like making the system accountable.
Was talking to a friend last week who is married with two young kids feel the same way you do but also just joined a $500/month private care group so his family could have access to family medicine. "What am I supposed to do? I have kids I need to be able to get a doctor"
This is exactly how the conservatives want it to play out. Unless you are extremely well off, I don't know how you can defend the policies Ford and others. I don't understand why people vote against what's best for themselves
Given our provincial government... there has always been a lot of hatred, no matter which party is presiding. When it comes to the high taxes we pay, in canada, even Americans are saying it's not worth the free Healthcare. Healthcare should be a human right... but at what cost? Doctors, nurses are being squeezed to the point that their physical and mental health is just a "cost" to our system right now... and it's not just in our province... it's all over Canada. There is funding, but it's not been used in a responsible way for several years. Where tf are the funds going? Paying the higher ups higher salaries, I bet.
I do not want private healthcare for one reason and one reason only. We already pay extremely high taxes for our healthcare to be covered. I do not want to pay extremely high taxes and then an additional high premium to get the healthcare that I deservedly pay for through my extremely high taxes. I will not do that and I will fight tooth and nail not to do that.
Totally agree. That’s WHY we pay such high taxes. If were going to do an American system, I hope they will lower taxes and let us have access to private insurance to pay for it, but I think it will ultimately be high taxes AND pay full price out of pocket for private surgeries, tests. There’s no incentive to do better here
Same in the UK. Tax payers cover Healthcare. And you're correct.. there is no incentive to do better here. I see the initiatives of some government groups.. but with funding for Housing and Healthcare (which are provincial) we are falling ever so short.
The problem with the "ya I don't mind paying for private health care" sounds all well and good but what about all the people that can't? And I also hope people are aware that private companies would come in and offer great rates that would entice people. We know how it is in the states... healthcare is for profit. They are not there to lose money. Premiums would be increased to the point like it is in the states where you friggin well go bankrupt. Private healthcare also has a cap. People can be denied treatment as well. Things need to be approved and insurance companies do not like to pay out. People better remember that when they're at the polls because private health insurance is not a good thing for Canada. Our parents and grandparents fought hard to get us this universal healthcare and it can be fixed
From the article, I never got the impression the emergency dept. did anything wrong. He was looked at and from the equipment, it was deduced that fella would pull out of it. Sadly when a lot of factors add up, he didn't make it, a further report on his demise is needed before I would point fingers. Using this example to propel private health care, is just not going to cut it for me. All our social services are struggling as more and more people are swamping existing services and all levels of government are aware to the issue. The leaders have an agenda that is in-consistent with the average Canadian, but fall into place for a specialty group that has no need of Canada's Health Care System; and prefer the privilege of money.
Firstly, it’s not Doug Ford- it’s every provincial government for the past 25 years. Secondly, we already have two tiered health care. Those who can afford to go across the border and those who can’t. Might as well face that public health care cannot keep up.
But it can, you said it yourself, our Healthcare has been choked out by the last 25 years of provincial politics. Maybe we should stop electing the ones killing it...
Don’t blame me, I voted for kodos
I fail to see how the payment method is going to solve a doctor shortage. People arguing about privatization one way or another are a bunch of rétards
Is Doug responsible for flooding the country with immigrants without the proper infrastructure?
No but he is responsible for withholding funding for healthcare and also deciding to spend $225 million to have alcohol in convenience stores.
What’s reason he claim he did it for?
There was no reason given. He's intentionally withholding health care funding because he is pushing private health care. As in terms of alcohol being sold in convenience stores anyone's guess is as good as mine. It's most likely a tactic to distract the public from some other shady deals he is making behind the scenes.
He is in deep with Loblaws that's why beer in grocery stores They put Galen Weston's first cousin on the LCBO board as part of all of this a few years ago Same answer as to why even after the CBC exposed the massive unethical over-billing of medschecks the Ministry did nothing and said nothing even though they pay for all of these illegitimate services and it's extremely easy to pass an Executive Officer notice to change the kind of thing CBC exposed (that is still being done unchallenged today)
Loblaws also has their hands in the Healthcare pot.
You're a worthless xenophobe.
Lmao, those words mean nothing to me, your ilk will ruin the country with good intentions.
I understand... it's too many syllables.
No, it's because you accuse me of something I am not.
Yet it's "my ilk ruining the country..." If you think conservatives are gonna cut immigration there is a bridge I'd like to sell you 🤡
I'm retarded but not that retarded, I'm not a fan of what Pierre has been saying about immigration, Bernier is the guy for that but doesn't have a chance. It feels like we're being held hostage at the moment by our government.
More like the governments masters.
Like lobbyists, globalists, military/corporate contracts for friends, even activist groups influencing every level of government. Middle class is getting gutted and no longer has any influence.
Right
He kind of is actually, at least the students.
Yes because his business buddies use provincial subsidies to pay for their wages
Yes lol, Doug Ford is all for foreign students because it means he doesn't have to fund colleges and universities. He's also very pro labour immigration as well. If you think he's anti immigrant you haven't been paying attention.
How was our healthcare system before that? Oh right, still defunded
Not embezzled though, like now
Agreed 100000%. Corporate scum.
We do need private healthcare. We need a hybrid system like many European countries already have.
I don't think we can have both unfortunately. What incentive would it give nurses and doctors to work in public healthcare over private healthcare? It would erode public healthcare completely. On top of that I don't think we would ever see any reduction in taxes to fund said healthcare. We would just be paying another "health tax" on top of our already tax collected money.
Don’t think you need to worry about the incentive part, it’s already stupid easy for any nurse to go down to the United States to work if they wanted to. Wife and I have been thinking about it ourselves. She already has friends who have done just that with no regrets. Allowing private insurance like Australia would only improve the system for everybody. Faster access for those who can and want to pay, and less strain in the public system.
We need both public and private. Hundreds of people die on waiting lists for specialists every year
Thanks Ford.
Nailed it
While Ford is definitely a fuckwit and made it worse, this was inevitable anyways
The man deserved better, but at 88 there is always a higher chance of passing away. It is still awful it happened.
Honestly, that wasn’t even the inevitability I was referring to, but that is also an inevitability. The one I was talking about was the collapse of the healthcare system
Don’t expect anyone else here to agree with you. They will downvote you and act like everyone sees things the way they do.
Oh it’s one of \*those\* subreddits, ok, fair enough, any kind of r/niagara2 type of subreddit I could check out? Kinda interested to see what niagarans who aren’t detached from reality say
Sure pal. The auditor general laid out exactly how Doug Ford starved our healthcare system out of 10billion dollars over the last 5 years we don’t wanna talk about that… But “iT WAs inEViTaBle”
Ok, but without fords cuts, things were already bad. Ford made it much worse, and is generally incompetent, but the system was broken before hand
It was broken… because funding and resources were falling behind demand. IRS almost as if this is what a chronically underfunded system looks like 🤔
Perhaps this thing consistently happening is why government should not control healthcare
This is exactly why CONSERVATIVES shouldn’t control healthcare. Private healthcare costs more, pays less, and only helps upper middle class and above. Do half a backflip bootlicker.
>Private healthcare costs more/pays less Only in the US, which isn't a real private system (it doesn't count if they spend more then we do on healthcare through government funds alone) >Only helps upper middle class and above You know those things about barber poles? Yeah, getting healthcare used to be cheap and easy, especially in the US, before the government stepped in >Bootlicker Ahh yes, wanting \*less\* government control makes \*me\* the bootlicker
It's very obvious that Ford wants to tear down the public option and replace it with a private option that enriches his friends
Loblaws will own Ontario soon enough. https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/loblaw-takes-75-million-stake-in-largest-virtual-healthcare-provider-in-canada
“Option”.
Well, private care is an option. Dying untreated, alone and poor is their other option, I guess
Only fools would opt for the U.S. system. Canadians live longer than Americans. Why? Our healthcare is better. Number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the U.S. - medical bills. If you have a prior condition (high blood pressure?) and you are over 40, insurance becomes unaffordable unless you can get into a union job with benefits.
I’m told Obamacare makes it illegal to not get insurance due to pre-existing conditions
You can get it - you just can’t afford it.
Only fools *and people who stand to earn a fucking killing*
Or your first Nation.
There’s a reason when you walk into a US drugstore chain, you see a wall o’ painkillers. 💊
Honestly, if he tore it down that would be better but he's not going to do that This is about making money, it's not ideological Which means many people need to get screwed to create those larger profits
He's purposely tanking public health care so he can "fix" the problem he created with private healthcare only his weather doner friends can afford to facilitate and profit from. It's been obvious for anyone living in the province and even easier to see being married to a health care provider
Having a private system that helps fund a public system is not a bad idea. We don't need a private system that equals or replaces anything it can be used to alleviate wait times for things like hip replacements and surgeries. Canada already sends thousands of patients south for [treatment ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-to-send-cancer-patients-to-u-s-for-radiation-treatment-1.6399653)when the system is overloaded why not have our own system?
Tells reddit you are a private health care industry plant without saying that you are a private health care industry plant. 😂
Nope just someone whos lived between 5 different countries born in Aus lived in Canada, US, Germany and England. Germany and Aus by far the best healthcare systems. Canada without a doubt last. I had better healthcare coverage when I spent 2 summers in Thailand vs Canada. In Canada i couldn't even see a doctor without lining up outside a clinic at 7am with 30 other people multiple days in a row only to be turned away before i even got to the door. Telehealth has helped but to actually see a doctor is brutal. Canadians just cant handle being told their systems have turned to shit. I was told it would take nearly 12 months to see a dermatologist for a mole check. Flew back to Aus got it checked in 2 days. It was malignant.. So ya it could have been stage 4 by the time i saw a doctor in Canada. My best Canadians friends parents both DIED in Canada from mishandled cancer diagnosis. Im not a shill just someone who tells Canadians the truth of my experiences 🤷♂️
I am not saying that our system is pefect. I am saying that the current provincial government is attempting to purposely make the health system so bad that they can convince the people to compliment a private sector. I agree to the Healthcare System is not running efficiently but I don't believe that this is because doctors and nurses are lazy I believe this is the Ford government delivery cutting funding from important parts of the infrastructure to destroy the system from within to promote a private option. Who profits from that private option? Doug Ford's donor Buddies
This is such a tired, old, talking point. I don't disagree about the state of healthcare, but new material is needed. This is just a ridiculous excuse for a system that hasn't ran well in decades. An overhaul is needed, but anytime a government tries, people lose their minds. Something has to change, but when people scream "we want change!" And then when the government changes something, scream "not THAT change!!" Nothing will get done.
Ford government has been stripping funding. His party has made it much worse. And look at the stellar job he’s doing with education
it's an observation not a talking point. I'm just a guy in read it not some sort of PR firm posting on Reddit
You are OJ Simpson though 😂
Yeah when we talk about change we mean going from barely funding our system to funding our system well. Not change as in going from barely funding our system to not funding it enough to sustain itself. Either you you know that full well and are just a shit stick, or you are really the most ignorant person in this comment section.
85 billion dollars is barely funding? Fix the system and process before asking for more, shit stick. The system has needed an overhaul for decades. More money isn't the answer. You sound like the guy who wins a million bucks and is broke again within a few years.
“Ontario's total spending per capita of $13,065 was the lowest among the provinces and $3,338, or 20.4 per cent, below the rest of Canada average, which is $16,403” We are shorting our system badly, fucking PEI has better funding than us. You sound like the guy to pay 3/4 of your rent and wonder why you’re getting evicted.
What i cant understand is why Canada doesn't look towards the Australian style of healthcare. It's quite superior but of course has flaws. They have a Hybrid private/public system.
Except if you look at the Australian system, public wait times *doubled* in the first year after the introduction of a private option. You have two doors. One is private, one is public. There is still the same number of healthcare workers. Private pays more and has less complicated cases. Who will get the majority of staffing? It’s an obvious answer. Private doesn’t solve anything except provide care for those who can afford it. Once you become too sick you’re pawned off to the public system where you will be in an overburdened system. Furthermore, look at how well for profit nursing homes fairer during the pandemic. You were much more likely to die in a for profit nursing home as opposed to not for profit.
Ford and his party don’t seem to want hybrid. Why would they strip funding from public services if not to try to force us to switch.
Publicly funded healthcare is not going away. Not now. Not ever. Other parties like to throw around the big, bad P word like we're going to an American style model. Change needs to happen. And it won't be comfortable. Throwing more money at it doesn't fix issues.
Bro I’m not even saying throw more money At least put back what they took away lately lol They’re starving the system to benefit the private sector. Do you not realize this? If they want to try to open private clinics, go ahead, but don’t starve the public system and make us suffer so that his friends can benefit.
Honestly? If we could go to a real market healthcare (not the US’s government protected and funded monopoly), I’d rather that over this “free” healthcare
That's exactly what they should try to implement, but people lose their shit. They want more money thrown at the problem, but the process doesn't change. So then nothing changes. People in Canada are nuts when it comes to Healthcare. Talk about some private services and people look at you like you killed their family. Meanwhile many services are already privately run, but people don't realize it.
People flip out over the idea of a Hybrid private/public system when Canada already sends thousands of patients to the US for [treatment ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-to-send-cancer-patients-to-u-s-for-radiation-treatment-1.6399653) each year and those tens of millions of dollars go right into the pocket of US healthcare.
You're right, and the willingness of those people to pay frees up resources here. If I ever need an mri or CT scan, to Buffalo I go.
This is a tired response and an old talking point from the perspective of privilege. No one wants private health care except the ones who will profit from it. Wealthy people already have private doctors to go to. Public sector health care keeps the proletariats healthy and able to work. Private health care will decimate low wage earners and create more poverty and debt load. People will leave Ontario. You think the TFWs and those seeking PR will be able to afford healthcare living 12 to a 2 bedroom house while working at Tim's?
Yes. This is correct, wise person. Free public healthcare is one of the only reasons why anyone would want to live in Canada. Yes of course, it isn’t really “free” but what that term means, is that even the poorest and those on the margins are entitled to healthcare as human beings. This is in direct opposition to the social darwinist ideologists that flock to the bastrd Con party. Stand your ground. Wealthy elitists will always have access to their own selfish means to healthcare. That is not a cogent argument against publicly funded healthcare for any sane person. Stay sane. Stay away from Cons.
Fuck doug ford
My aunt died because of bullshit too. The nurse was sleeping and she was code blue for 45 minuets. Didn’t hear any bells. She slept through it. She’s not the first in my family to die thanks to the shitty hospitals within the past 4 years. I am highly triggered and so hurt for her and her family because I know how shitty the system is. *edit to clarify. Her alarm was going off that she was coding. The nurse was asleep. No one was able to call code blue over the speaker because SHE WAS ASLEEP ON A GURNEY. The only other nurse said she was “doing her rounds” and fell upon my aunt. Dead.*
Do you think only one nurse attends à code blue orrrrrr???
Nobody rang code blue if nobody knew there is a code blue which was their case cause the person who attends bell call was sleeping on shift
There is more than one person who attends a call bell. Everyone can see them.
When the one person in the ward is asleep on a gurney. Because there is only one nurse on over nights. No one else heard the bell. If someone did, my aunt would still be here asshole
During dayshift yeah. Nightshift nope and definitely not any RCC per unit.
Have you been to welland hospital orrrrrrr
As a nurse I can say it absolutely is. What has been done is unforgivable. I wish people knew the ethical dilemma we face. You don’t become a nurse for material reasons, but how can we care for others if it means being homeless? Times up for government and corporations they need to pay our worth and improve our working conditions.
No offence, but how would you become homeless? Do nurses not still make around $50 per hour?
[Labour market information - Registered Nurse (R.N.)](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/993/ON) [Labour Market Information - Licensed Practical Nurse (L.P.N.)](https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/4383/ON) TLDR: no, they’re not typically making ~$50 per hour
The average is still around $40 per hour… again I do not see how that is a wage that would equal homelessness. That comment is incredibly tone deaf to those who are actually struggling.
The median salary for an RN isn’t really relevant to the well-being of the majority of nurses who are paid less than that (including *all* RPNs). According to the source I linked a Registered Practical Nurse in Ontario may be paid as little as ~$22 per hour. It doesn’t take much imagination to picture circumstances where an RPN could be *”actually struggling”* at that pay grade given the cost of housing , food, and childcare, the tendency of employers to offer part time positions, etc.
Yeah but I think generally when we talk about “nurses” in this context, we’re talking about RNs. Not RPNs. The difference in education and skills between RN AND RPN is huge. RPN isn’t far off from PSW.
$40/hr becomes $0 per hour pretty quick when you work one of the most stressful jobs someone can have in this country. Are you guys missing all of the discussion here about the nightmare working conditions resulting in patient deaths? We're talking about skilled and educated people suddenly finding themselves without a job because they're not comfortable with killing someone. Going on disability means they can't pay their bills anymore. I think we can all agree that disability does not cover the cost of living. I don't care who you are or what you do. If you lose 40% of your income suddenly, that's a problem for anyone without a strong support system. In fact, in order to live on disability it generally requires someone to relocate to a small town with a lower cost of living. Does this person have children? Does the relocation mean erasing any support system you had? Now, what happens when that person is ready to work again? Relocating back to the city is not an option anymore. Burnout can easily mean homelessness
That's... That's just not true, and I'm struggling to understand how you got that number, based on the links posted. The median in Ontario for an LPN is $30. On top of that, the median isn't equal to the average. Based on those links I don't know how many people make the high end or the low end of those ranges, and neither do you, so it's impossible for you to calculate an average from that information. Please do better.
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I’m not saying they don’t deserve the money. I am saying it is silly to act like this wage will lead to homelessness.
Average salary of Ontario RN is $80,000; and 25% of the nurses are on the sunshine list. Poverty line for a single individual in Ontario is about $30k income. Average salary in Ontario is $55k
99% of that upper echelon are public funded hospitals Every RPN and LPN at any private LTC are doing $18-$19 per hour Apply for some RPN jobs at any private facility and find out
Do you have first hand knowledge of the wages of a private facility? From the past few years? I do. I don't know any RPN or LPN positions that pay less than 20 an hour, most of them are high 20s+ , even for private LTC.
Yeah, Scarborough and much of GTA especially ones ran by the Greeks
You know well that an average isn’t even the half above half below
Really? How does the average work?
What I described is the median. This is the problem with the very wealthy, they distort the average.
Yeah but 25% is on sunshine list, that is pretty high amount no?
100k is now mid-level management, the Sunshine list isnt as relevant as it used to be. Inflation over time matters. Corporations freezing salary levels have also made 1980s salaries the same as today, which is beyond pathetic. The dollars being sucked out of the system by billionaires has to come from somewhere!
I agree with everything you said but 100k is hardly homeless level, no?
You’re distorting what was said, the bottom rungs with low pay, irregular shifts and unpredictable placements are the problem. Nursing hasnt been the ‘sure thing’ of previous generations for some time. Also the hellish work demands post-COVID and with Ford cuts takes a heavy toll.
Caring for people makes you homeless? What??
We need improved working conditions but its misrepresentative to claim we are at risk for homelessness. Unable to afford to buy a home today in most of the province? Yes, like almost everyone else. At risk for homelessness? Not even close.
Why would you be homeless?
Not enough homes, not enough good paying job, not enough doctors and nurses; before we make commitments to immigrants, how about we make sure we can actually help the people that paid into the system all their lives?
That is 100% true. Not against immigration myself but our government has destroyed our systems.
We’re in the perfect storm where our province and country are run by totally incompetent morons.
Isn't that a problem for the last 20 years. Most of these problems are linked to other things from previous governments. Just look at climate change: cost alone this year will be astounding. But tax payers will fit the bill. It's going to be billions. I don't know many companies in Canada that are worth a billion dollars. Were unhinged.
I think our federal governments other than Mulroney and the Trudeau's all had redeeming qualities; however, my standards are low for the feds.. I'm just happy when a federal government isn't actively trying to turn our economy into Argentina. Provincially it seems like every premier since Robarts has been worse than their predecessor and we re now at the point where there are absolute utter morons in Ottawa and Queens Park. I cannot figure out how so many non 1%ers vote for Ford especially when our health care system is in ruins. Climate change... we're doomed - maybe that's why JT is shredding borrowed and printed money like it wont matter how things are in 100 years.
Ford government “looking at resources to help hospitals” EXCEPT TO FUND THEM ADEQUATELY. STFU Ford. Yeet this turd into the Sun!!!!!
First problem : HealthCare is underfunded. Second problem : Hospitals budget poorly. Third problem: People come into ER with non-emergencies that clog up the hospital beds. Fourth problem: People don't plan for where they/their family will go when older, clogging up beds. Fifth problem: People refuse to take their family members home. You'd be shocked how many people drop seniors off at the hospital and never answer their phone again....
Ford lies people die.
This guy any the first time this has happened in Niagara, and sadly, it won’t be the last. Nothing is going to change until it happens to one of these politicians or their children.
This breaks my heart.
Wow ever since 2018, the Healthcare system has really gone downhill, i wonder 🧐
Meanwhile you know what isn’t making headlines? How the province is pissing away how many millions to restructure home care yet again… for absolutely zero reason.
Welland hospital ER is possibly one of the worst I have ever encountered, my family member almost died in their care, had it not been for a mothers refusal to leave because she knew something was wrong, they would have sent an extremely ill patient home to “sleep it off in bed” and she would not have woken up. Spend any amount of time in there at a loved one’s bedside and you will overhear more than you could ever care to, and unless you are placed by the nurses station in the curtained areas, you are either in a hallway or a tiny room with very little monitoring going on because the staff are stretched too thin and have not surprisingly become jaded and lacking in compassion as a result.
Not to mention the case of a friend of my wife. Almost same situation, this fellow's wife had high fever, emerg said she was ok, just a fever and go home. Over night got worse and next morning headed to hospital in Hamilton and she died. Thanks to gngh, he is widowed and three kids have no mommy. However, dougie has no problem spending a billion in order to get booze into corner stores early, spending I don't even know how many billions on twinning a bridge in St. Cath. that's not necessary, handing billions to trillion dollar companies to make batteries, but doesn't really give a damn if people die from poor health care. To be fair, I don't know if more money would make a difference when some of the health care providers are incompetent.
I’m so sorry for their loss. But I’m not sure how much of this specific case is really the fault of the hospital. If the patient had stable vitals, no fever, bloodwork normal, I’m not sure that they missed anything. Being in the ER versus a ward bed doesn’t change much either, in fact in ER the staff are often critical care trained and the doctors are more present than overnight on the floor. So in an emergency they were some of the best equipped people. The hospital system is not receiving the funding or staffing it needs. But an 88 year old man passing away in his sleep is the main indicator of this. In fact part of the burden of the healthcare system is this belief that everyone must live forever. Not every incidence of someone dying is immediately malpractice. It’s sad and emotional. But I’m hesitant to point fingers based on this article alone.
Happens all the time in the US.
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Underfunded healthcare system, not enough good doctors, too many people + I don’t think there are enough doctors included in the amount of people flooding the country (refugees/immigrants) to help the patient to doctor ratio imbalance I don’t know. I’m probably wrong…
It took my Dad, 65, hours to be seen with diabetic ketoacidosis and longer to be treated. His type 1 diabetes is managed very well but something happened, maybe an infection, that threw him into crisis out of nowhere. He was in the ICU for days and who knows what damage was done to his body, and he almost died. Same thing happened 3 weeks later in Halifax and he was on IV within 20 minutes. He walked out feeling normal the next day!! This condition is recognizable instantly - just looking at his blood sugar level on his pump!
Let people have private healthcare, when their bills are over 30k they can start to complain.
No thanks, I’m part of the people and don’t want to die to teach some losers a lesson
I’m sorry for her loss but at 88 you are a walking, talking, tickling bomb. Perhaps HC could have prolonged the inevitable a bit but at what cost to life quality?
The guy was 88.
Doug Ford has been working hard on that.
I received very poor care from a hospital in GTA. Don’t want to go into specifics, just wanted to say that the amount of incompetence and complete lack of concern when I was declining lead to me to “the brink of death” according to the doctor who DID get it right. I’m a nurse, and I’m not pretending to know everything, but I was very shocked at the standard of care. It’s unfortunate that I live 5 mins away from this particular hospital. In the case of emergency I’d rather be redirected to the town a couple of cities over. If I die, I die. I really don’t want to have to go back to that hospital.
Unfortunately politicians salaries, pensions and kickbacks are the things that are most important right now. We are just “in the way”
That 88 year old probably paid taxes all his life and was promised compassionate ,competent in exchange but the government is too busy looking after migrants,refugee’s and immigrants. That 88 year old is as entitled to care like anyone else and before foreign grifters.
My friend, you had me until you got all xenophobic. Health care is handled at the provincial level, immigration is a federal policy. It's fairly well known Dougie's, and the Conservatives in general, distaste, for people that aren't white Canadians. What Dougie likes is making his friends richer, which is why you're seeing cuts in public health and a push to privatization and the standard of care dropping.
Your comment can also be seen as xenophobic BTW
Lol
I mean at 88 he was well over average age for a male...they just drop...
I think the issue here is that he was in the emergency department for several days without any real care. He may have died no matter what kind of care he got, but that he didn't get care meant he didn't even have a chance.
100% , imagine being sick and having absolute chaos surrounding you 24/7. I’m an ER nurse and on some nights it’s so busy and loud you don’t even realize it’s night and we just have patients in every hallway.
Where does it say that he went “without any real care”? Doctors assess and treat while in ER. They were running tests. He had no fever. His vitals were being monitored and were stable. Could they have missed something? Absolutely. Doctors are human too and can miss things. But just because he wasn’t admitted on a floor doesn’t mean he wasn’t getting adequate care.
Insensitive to say, but it is true. He still deserved better care though.
I am so sorry for this family’s loss. A sudden and unexpected passing is devastating. That being said, there is no evidence that this gentleman received sub-standard care. There’s no way of knowing for certain, but this gentleman may very well have passed away anyway even if he was admitted onto a floor. The elderly can get very sick very quickly, often with little-to-no warning. Should people be stuck in ER for days being treated? Absolutely not. Our healthcare system is in crisis, and has been for a while. The message of this article is a dog whistle for privatizing our system, which I am against. We need to fix the already broken system that we have.
So many downvotes on comments that make sense lol. People love to believe Ford broke our healthcare. It’s always been horrible. It’s definitely worse now but that’s because we have no staff and too many patients. The government is repsinsi by e for funding the hospitals and they’ve been failing that for years. Long before ford. (No I’m not saying private healthcare is the answer either)
Ive heard the foreign health care workers planned to come for their PR statuses should fix this
Sorry folks, guns for "Ukraini" come first!
Well honestly if we do not privatize healthcare… it’s going to get a whole lot worse. The boomers are going to hit their 80s over the next two decades. If you think it’s bad now… you are going to find out just how bad it can be. This is going to happen regularly. (Honestly I don’t think we will privatize and a just a lot of Grandma’s and Grandpa’s will go for a dirt nap in the waiting areas of areas of hospitals)
20 years ago I was a hospital manager and one of the interview questions for new nurses was, "Patients survive *despite* being in the hospital, not because they're in the hospital. What are your thoughts on that?". That came from HR.
Sorry for her loss. My dad (82) had the complete opposite experience a few months ago. The Milton District hospital literally saved his life after waiting to the 11th hour before going to emergency. So, judging from these comments, I should be thanking not just the nurses and doctors but Doug Ford, too?
Keep voting conservative
Normal day in Canada
It’s all about MAID now
"Zammit doesn't know what caused her father's death" The guy was 88. At that age health can crumble fast.
I know you're trying hard, but this metric isn't the most accurate. Sorry about your luck. Maybe if all the needs across the entire country were identical it would be, but they're not. More money is not going to fix a systemically flawed and broken model.
If she thinks their system is broken please come across the border.
I’m a primary care doctor in Ontario. This is terribly sad and I’m sorry for the family’s loss. Also, people need to understand that just because someone dies, does not mean that something was missed or a mistake was made. This man was 88…regardless of how healthy he was, he has a high mortality risk with any illness. The Canadian healthcare system is absolutely broken, but there is no amount of overall that is going to save the lives of acutely ill 88 year olds.
Exactly. This dude was 88… slow news day I guess.