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If their state works like any other, there's nothing he could've done but veto it only for it to be overridden. If the bill had enough support to get to his desk then it had enough support for his veto to not matter.
“Gov. Mark Gordon allowed the bill to become law without his signature Friday.”
That’s the *second* sentence of the article.
He did exactly what governors who know their veto will be over ridden do to protest bills. He didn’t sign it and didn’t endorse it.
> He did exactly what governors who know their veto will be over ridden do to protest bills. He didn’t sign it and didn’t endorse it.
That's bs
He should STILL veto it, force them to override it. Allowing it to become law without signing it is some mealy-mouthed bs, unless there's some magical property about a law not being signed that makes it easier to overturn
Why?
Seriously, if you don’t have an answer, think hard about why you feel so strongly. The pocket veto is a time-honored tradition. A full veto costs political capital that isn’t always worth spending.
Because they're never going to spend that political capital. And even IF they were willing to, the opposition doesn't care about that and isn't going to respect it.
The extreme right wing doesn't respect norms or decorum, they seemingly can't be whipped into supporting things due to past relationships. They have two things they care about: anything they perceive as owning the libs, and hurting the people they deem enemies.
"Conserving your political capital" is meaningless if spending that political capital doesn't matter. Trying to hold to norms that the opposing team doesn't respect and isn't encoded in law is useless political theater, and we should be tired of politicans pretending it isn't.
edit: But I'm sure the trans youth of Wyoming will be very comforted by the political capital that was saved here today
That's the whole point of principles, standing up for something even when doing so costs you something. "Eh, don't bother, it won't do any good." is literally the antithesis of having or standing for principles. Risking that political capital is standing on principle. Cox (UT gov) is a spineless coward and just tows the party line, only once in a great while does he exercise the barest of minimums to appear mildly humane, when the risk to his political capital is at it's lowest.
> That's the whole point of principles, standing up for something even when doing so costs you something.
Arguably, they are only principles when standing up for them costs you something. Otherwise it's just an idea you like.
I don't know anything about the this man or this specific situation, but assuming you have multiple issues you care about you can't always risk all of your political capital on just one thing. Then you can't achieve any of your other goals.
The specific situation is the Utah GOP and Mormon church, like most of the GOP at large, are about power and not leadership. All he cares about is keeping power, that's it. All his actions are based around that. He's got no grand plan, he's not got some "worth fight" that he's gearing up for.
If that were the case, then I can understand the political capital argument, but in Utah, there's nothing of note. His only competition is maintaining his seat against whoever the next up and coming Mormon Rep might be, not in bettering the state for all those that live here.
(see air pollution, water usage, education....all are the party, if he takes a stand at all...)
It's too bad that trans rights are low on his priorities list, then. Hope he gets that tax bill he wanted with his saved political capital, or whatever.
We're currently talking about Republican governors of solidly republican states, correct? The governor not caring enough to be an active dick to you is probably about as good as its gets for transpeople there.
> loss of political capital
Politicians save political capital like I save elixirs in RPGs, they ain't ever going to use it, even if they did it's not like the insane repubs are going to be like "no it's cool bro let's give him this win, remember all that political capital he's got" and we need to stop covering for them
No most require supermajorities of some kind. But this is Wyoming; the State House is 57-5 Republican while the Senate is 28-2 Republican. Wyoming is effectively a one-party state.
One of the rare cases where it isn’t just heavily gerrymandered, they actually vote heavily in that direction. It’s not like Wisconsin which shockingly doesn’t get more attention.
Wisconsin had the governor, Secretary of State, and attorney general all democrat in 2022, narrowly lost the senate race, and yet the Wisconsin state assembly is still a republican super majority with 64 R 35 D as the breakdown in the state assembly. It’s about a 16% vote advantage for Rs after they did heavy redistributing. They, sadly, aren’t even the most gerrymandered state either, that’s believed to be Indiana.
They have been praising victor orban a lot lately, a now dictator of Hungary who started out as a regularly elected official who took control over the country’s political and legal systems making it so his conservative party never loses elections. It’s clear why.
You can see the partisan breakdowns of each state senate here: https://ballotpedia.org/Historical_partisan_composition_of_state_senates
Wyoming and Massachusetts seem to be two of many one-party-states.
what he could do to further his 'pseudo' point, is report on the COST of multiple state & local politicians' salaries spent debating, working on and drafting and assembling for any and all aspects of this bill over the last few years - tally it up into the (likely) hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars, and then mention there's **4 transgendered athletes competing in girls' sports in the entire state.**
Probably some are trans men/boys too. As well as trans women and girls competing in sports that physical strength is not crucial in, like golf or rifle.
Just a small note, it’s not quite right to say “transgendered”. Using the participle (that ends in -ex) implies that “transgender” is a verb that happens to someone. Instead use “transgender” athletes, using it as an adjective that describes something about what a person *is*.
That's actually exactly it. He also allowed a budget increase to pass by aging out without signing it (which by statute automatically moves it to the wyo Senate) just to show his lack of support for it iirc.
https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/SF0133
It passed 51-10 in the House and 27-3 in the Senate. It would have been overridden. He realized it didn't matter what the hell he did, so he did what cost him the least amount of political capital -- he took his ball and went home.
My understanding was that he's allowing it through (without his signature!) so that they can start the lengthy lawsuits to overturn the bill sooner, without having to wait for the veto and the inevitable override to go through the legislature.
He even lays out potential legal arguments against the bill in his letter, which will both undermine the enforcement of the bill itself and help any legal challenges.
Given that he would have been overriden anyway, this is potentially much more helpful than a veto would have been.
edit: To be clear, his allyship is half-hearted, given that he has basically said the law has its heart in the right place, but the rest of the letter is just about the best thing he's done on the issue.
I'm from Wyoming, and from experience, he's a cowardly piece of shit. He'll play middle of the aisle but always go full republican. Wyoming has become a horrible place to live, not because it's any less beautiful but because the people have made it horrible for anyone with a differing mindset.
I'm from Wyoming and this is actually something I've heard people talk about a lot. The chances of him getting reelected if he goes against the bill is extremely slim imo
He didn’t sign it.
He chose not to veto it, because the veto wouldn’t have mattered, and you don’t expend political capital just to impress people on the internet who think that hollow, performative bullshit is the highest form of activism.
A paraphrase:
>I object to the bill, but I don't object object to the bill. I find the bill objectionable, but not to the point where my ability to object becomes an objection. I consider this bill draconian but I am a dragon. I recognize injustice and give it a neighborly wave.
A better one will be "I object to the bill, so I won't sign it so it will be easier to fight in the courts, I will also provide a legal argument in my response to why I don't think this bill is legal".
That's like saying Orwellian basically means "like the river Orwell" because that's where his name comes from. Both words refer to the person (in the case of draconic, Draco), not the root of their name.
But he also said in a decision letter that the ban "is overly draconian, is discriminatory without attention to individual circumstances or mitigating factors, and pays little attention to fundamental principles of equality."
In this case his words are intended to be used in the legal argument to have the bill overturned, which would take longer if he had simply vetoed the bill and then been overruled by a super majority.
Sometimes, words are expensive
FYI, the word has nothing to do with Dracula (or Vlad). It actually originates with an Ancient Greek legislator named Draco, known for a legal code by which even minor offenses were punished severely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconian_constitution
Thanks for mentioning this. The second paragraph says he didn't sign it and objected to it in a decision letter.
The upcoming law still fucking sucks, but the headline obscures the circumstances.
They worded it this way because governor of Wyoming has the power to veto bills. However, the legislature also had more than enough [votes](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/SF0133) in both houses to override a veto, but on rare occasions governors veto anyways to make a point.
Personally, I’m not going to give him flack because a veto would have been purely symbolic. The vote won by a massive margin in both houses and they would’ve overridden the veto in a matter of days. His statements and the fact that he didn’t sign it had the same effect.
Because the letter he wrote is full of legal arguments to help the bill be overturned. If he had simply vetoed he would have been overruled anyway, and the legal process would have then taken even longer
Hot take: trans MTF athletes who underwent male puberty shouldn’t be allowed to compete against women. Male puberty gives definitive competitive advantages and makes it unfair for the women competing in the sport. There is no perfect solution to this problem, but I feel like making the competition fair for the vast majority of the athletes competing in the field is a far better solution than the small fraction of MTF trans athletes that may feel excluded from the preferred division they want to compete in. The entire point of separating the divisions by biological gender in the first place was to allow for fair competition and a place for women to compete.
Honestly I don't think this is a hot take and most people would agree. But on sites like reddit you are downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting this.
If they did they would realize that this is not the hill to die on. I care deeply about the issue but this is not it... the difference is immediately noticeable.
Pretty sure this attitude has scared away the majority of trans people from pursuing sports. Why draw attention when your community is attacked on a daily basis?
Oh yea. And their responses only make you dislike them more. They’ve literally turned me into someone who doesn’t give a shit or understand to someone absolutely disagrees.
Trans women shouldn't compete in women's division, and trans men on testosterone shouldn't compete in women's division. Both offer a clear unfair advantage. I apologize to the .2% of people who are trans and want to compete in sports, but it's a life changing decision that comes with repercussions. Just make 2 divisions, women's and open.
The only surprise here is that he actually said out loud what is obvious to any rational person. That he caved to bigots is more or less the norm with Republican politicians these days. Spineless opportunists top to bottom, if they’re not outright fascists themselves.
> They lie to themselves that they’re doing shit for freedom or women’s rights for something that does the complete opposite.
I mean I have enjoyed the sudden dramatic 180 from everyone who used women's sports as a punch line for most of their lives suddenly having a deep and thoughtful concern about the competitive integrity of women's sports.
Honestly I don't disagree with this law entirely. Only real concession I would make is MtF trans people can play women's sports if they started transitioning pre-puberty. If you just open the gates entirely you will end up with two issues that create safety liabilities for cis-female athletes.
- MtF who transitioned post puberty and retain an enlarged skeletal structure and bone density over cis females (generally higher muscle density as well since it hasn't been long since they transitioned)
- FtM in transition who are taking testosterone and other male hormones, but still competing against cis women (this is akin to giving some athletes free reign to use hgh).
Overall I still think the best solution is just to give trans people their own divisions, or just put all genders in one division and watch the cis men dominate entirely like biology says they will in a battle of strength and speed.
Very unpopular opinion: Trans women do not belong in sports where they directly compete against biological women.
Trans or not, biological men are built differently and it's a terrible advantage.
Edit: since some people have the need to be pedantic. It works both ways.
"Trans men" to "trans women".
When science is the enemy...but yea it should be very logical to understand. That being said everyone should be allowed to excersise and compete - they need to create a new division for Transathletes. Question is: how many competitors and investors are interested tho?
If social media is an indicator, a lot. But I don't see anyone putting their money where their mouth is. it is a very slippery slope because "feelings".
After puberty, boys hold many physical advantages over girls. If you want to argue that boys don’t have any meaningful physical advantages before puberty I’d be willing to entertain that. Overall I think this bill makes a lot of sense.
I just think it should be medical studies and the sports organizations themselves that come up with the policy. Not the state. There's still a lot of work to be done on if certain lengths of time are viable for elimination of advantages. Also if the child was on puberty blockers and then later on started hormone therapy and only ever trained as their preferred gender then does that also reduce the advantage. There's just so much left.to look at and understand.
I think of it like the government reaction to classify drugs, they didn't care for medical truth, they just wanted to look tough on something.
>Gordon noted in his decision letter that there are only four known transgender students competing in school athletics in the state.
Willing to do a whole blanket ban to target just four individuals. Wonder if child deaths from firearms makes them want to ban anything or pass laws that will better protect children.
Wait. What specifically is "draconian" here? Can someone elaborate? Because if all this is doing is establishing that trans women can't play in women's sports, I honestly don't see the issue. Is there more to this bill that I'm not aware of?
Know this I will be unpopular but either have them play with the men as an open field and allow women as well or in co-Ed sports, or lastly in their own division. Let women play against women we have seen what happens from mma to swimming it is not a level playing field
Why is it that men who transition don’t like playing sports with other men? Lia thomas and laurel hubbard don’t have a competitive edge within their own male gender. They are winning unfairly and don’t deserve their awards.
Don’t ignore simple fact that males are stronger/faster than females. I hate that this is even an issue. This is why everyone makes fun of the US, we as a country are concerned over the wrong issues.
Stay out of women sports, you don’t belong there and if truly care about equal rights don’t take from women.
Below are some real issues to fight about:
*Taxation of corporations
*Crumbling infrastructure
*Ohio chemical spills
*Falling public school system
*Biased media
*Prisons making money off inmates
*Unfair lobbying
*Inflation
the list goes on….
Quit crying over nonsense.
Indeed, those problems are what lawmakers should care about and be working on, not wasting their time blanket banning 5 or 6 people per state from women's sports
> men who transition don't like playing with other men
trans men *do* play sports with men. but you're probably just using bigoted terminology and referring to trans women as "men", in which case it's because transitioning from male to female, and the subsequent massive decrease in testosterone, causes significant muscle atrophy that brings overall physical ability fairly in line with cis women. You don't hear about most transfem athletes, because they usually have fairly average performance in womens divisions.
There are rare exceptions of course, like Lia Thomas, but *she was already a high ranking competitor in the men's division.* And in fact, when she started transitioning, the changes to her body caused her to drastically drop in placement as a result. She only gets such high marks in the women's division because *she's an exceptional athlete.*
Not to mention that trans women would never have any advantage if they never go through male puberty in the first place. If a young trans girl manages to get puberty blockers *before* going through male puberty, they'd be nigh indistinguishable from a cis woman. How is it fair to ban them too?
Yes - that's never been an issue.
The issue is that women transitioning from male to female want to play with other women (obviously), but since they're still primarily biologically male, they have an unfair advantage over the other women.
To be honest, people who don't appreciate the nuance here are the problem.
Men's leagues are typically "open" largues that women just aren't competitive in. The NBA is technically all-gender, women just are only competitive in the wnba
I honestly say it's alright since there is no biological advantage. It has been accepted to allow women in men's sports but, not the other way around due to there being pyshical advantage. Mtf is unfair for the women participating.
I'm pretty sure in a large number of sports the male side is actually open, anyone who wants to can compete, so in many cases that wouldn't be an issue. Cis women could also compete in those instances if they wanted to and we're good enough.
Honest question:
Since athletics is a measure of biological physical potential, what’s wrong with designating participation based on biological sex rather than gender identity?
Boxing, wrestling and other sports subdivide into weight competitions to create more of a biological equivalence so the skills can be evaluated among those of equivalent physical power.
As M to F trans athletes still retain greater muscle/tendon/bone strength than even equivalently sized cis F, what injustice is being done by classifying competition based on biological sex as long as it still provides a means for trans athletes to compete within that framework.
I understand that much of the transition process is to avoid the body dysphoria and tragically elevated suicide rates that psychological stress creates, but if trans identity was normalized as a fully accepted, open & shame-free identity by society at large, wouldn’t that be better than trying to shoehorn them into a traditional sexual **binary system** in what is increasingly recognized as a spectrum with some fluidity?
Isn’t trying to contain their gender in that binary reductive, constraining, and in some form perpetuating an unhealthy non-acceptance of their trans- reality?
This is what I worry might exacerbate the dysphoria & alienation….The sense that if they’re not seen as completely identical to biologically cis people then they’re being maligned by society rather than accepted…Which I suspect is fueling much of the pushback societally that might be mitigated by abandoning the claim that a transgender person is absolute “no different” than a cisgendered one.
Why not embrace the difference…embrace the identity…& embrace the trans- prefix rather than concealing it as if it were a point of shame?
I can’t help seeing the effort to deny any biological sexual differences which really do exist as another form of “closet” trans people are getting stuck in when the whole point should be pride in whatever a person is.
Sorry folks, don't know if the bill is fair or not - but, need to state this clearly. The trans community needs to do better or risk losing mainstream acceptance. Male to female transitions are clearly advantages, it is biological. To say otherwise is arguing in bad faith.
I mean there is a reason the top pro women's basketball teams train with d2 men's college teams. Thats about were the women peak in terms of ability. They still get smoked and crushed by the top boys high-school teams. Women's dont have the speed or strength to keep up. Its science. They can play all day I dont care but people kidding themselves the field is equal have probably never played a sport against the other sex.
No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season. These bans are ridiculous, but because transgender persons are an easy target, republican politicians have made destroying them a platform their hateful base can get behind.
At the same time, if someone does transition it doesn't give them the right to ruin competition for other people. Idk, sports isn't the end of the world, if your physical condition makes you an unfair participant then you simply should not participate.
> No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season
Yeah, the real reason they go to all that trouble is so they can creep on girls in the bathroom.
/s
I know you're being sarcastic, but actually people who want to creep on girls in the bathroom transition into being conservative policitians.
Absolutely not /s
Quite the opposite, they are all about big government in the form of a police officer for every single person below a certain income threshold that watches them take a piss to make sure they didn't piss wrong.
Don’t forget all the evangelicals (like 35-40% of our country) would gladly expand the govt to include a 4th branch that would deal in theology.
The small govt shit was always non sense. It really just refers to them not wanting to expand the social safety net. Big govt in terms of military or enforcement of anti-abortion laws are A-ok
They still have a biologically male body, there is a reason male and female athletes are seperated. I know its not nice for a small percentage of society but we cant make decisions that impacts half of the country in a negative way so a few can feel a bit better.
Can someone explain to me how it isn’t unfair for a trans-women born as a biological male to compete against cis-gender females? Have yet to hear that argument.
To be clear I’m pro trans rights in every possible way but as a lifelong sports fan I can’t deny that some trans women clearly have a competitive advantage over their cis-gendered peer athletes.
Olympic Swimming, UFC, and Professional Disc golf (not conservative organizations by any stretch of the imagination) have all had to impose rules preventing trans-female participation in female divisions to keep things fair.
So much is like this, and if you question 1 little line you are a bigot.
Maybe transwomen shouldn't just dunk on cist women all the time, and maybe kids shouldn't go to drag shows are pretty reasonable opinions. Every other opinion I have on trans or drag mirrors super left wing reddit.
I will at some point be called a trump loving nazi for that opinion.
Yea idk I don’t think drag shows for kids are bad as long as everyone is dressed decently lol. But yea It’s really not good. Nuance is responded to as if it’s hate way too often.
The issue becomes who can receive college scholarships and if it unfairly penalizes non transitioned female athletes. That is a real problem, but a better solution has to exist that isn’t so draconian
Yeah. Super unpopular opinion but I don’t think it’s fair that a person born male can compete with females and we accept it as a level playing field. I don’t have the right answer on how to handle it in a caring and compassionate way, but I do think it’s unfair.
Has any trans girl gone to college on a full ride sports scholarship ever? There are probably scholarships just for trans kids they would have statistically much better shots at, and if there aren't, there should be. That's how you keep them from accepting the hypothetical sports scholarship they have never been offered in the first place.
Transpeople have barely attained some form of acceptance recently. You can’t use history as an argument when they’re only now being allowed in public life.
Isn’t the better solution to have them play in the open league like this bill does? CIS women deserve a space to be able to fairly compete with one another.
Maybe just maybe instead of pissing themselves over scholarships, Americans should go and strike for affordable education. Maybe just maybe being good at sports shouldn't put you in a better place for an education than the good student who isn't overwhelmingly good in any specific subject but is good across the board. Maybe just maybe the whole idea of scholarships is a draconian treatment of the symptoms of the illness that is for profit education.
Dealing with hypothetical issues like “what if all the guys cut off their dicks to win Regional State Championships in volleyball?!” And “if we let them marry each other they’ll marry animals next!” Is what republicans are good at.
Real issues like “what if it’s too easy for a 15yo to get his hands on enough semi automatics and ammo to kill dozens of elementary and kindergarten students in mere minutes?” Are what they have a hard time with.
Correct. This legislation targets a statistical anomaly overall. The right lost their battle against gay rights, so is using trans people as a way to get even moderates frothing at the mouth.
>The right lost their battle against gay rights, so is using trans people as a way to get even moderates frothing at the mouth.
Even if they won in recriminalizing homosexuality, they still would've gone after trans people. The right being the right always needs an 'other' to blame everything on, to scapegoat every problem onto. To present as wholly evil, as impure, as a threat to society. What's odd about today is that they aren't 'othering' one group to get every other group on side (such as making LGB alliance more popular, fun fact those fucks membership is primarily self identified straight people). They are just 'othering' everyone, trans people, gay people, non-binary individuals, immigrants, atheists, Muslims, Jews (ethnically and religious), the list goes on. Yet somehow they still got so many supporters who see nothing wrong with hating everyone who isn't a Cis Het Christian deep in conservative politics born in America.
The population of Wyoming is less than 600k people. It’s a mid-sized city spread out over 100k square miles. They do not have a “real” problem with trans athletes. They have other “real” problems they could be dealing with but have landed on hate.
I’ve seen a lot of people clutching their pearls over this possibility, but I’ve never actually seen a single real life example of it happening. Mostly because significant college scholarships for female athletes are rarely even a thing.
> Mostly because significant college scholarships for female athletes are rarely even a thing.
You are out of your mind. There's _ton's_ of College Scholarships for female athletes, it's at least 1:1 between men and women and likely 1:1.5.
If you are upset about shady sports scholarships, you should probably check out… the entire NCAA. Its basically an open secret all the rules recruiters break trying to get kids to come to their school. Suddenly one (hypothetical) trans student athlete getting a scholarship is a huge deal? Give me a fucking break. If people cared that much about the integrity of sports scholarships, trans kids are literally the last place to look.
Exact same thing. Conservatives figure out what they don’t like, and then try to figure out why those things might be a problem, completely ignoring the much bigger problems surrounding whatever boogeyman they’ve made up.
Another example. Drag is, very simplistically, wearing clothes and makeup. These people will walk around with automatic killing machines on their hips and complain the clothes other people choose to wear are a danger to society without a shred of awareness. A few of them will have “fuck your feelings” clothing on. Can’t make this shut up man.
https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/how-one-swimmer-became-the-focus-of-a-debate-about-trans-athletes
Title ix, also says male and female scholarship opportunities have to be the same. I think it's skewed to men still but I'd hardly say there's no female opportunities.
That's not the point. The point is that they have an unfair advantage because they're transitioning from being biologically male.
They can still compete in the men's groups.
> No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season
Maybe it says something about America's obsession with high school sports, that anyone thinks they would. Mostly it says something about America's intolerance, though :(
> “oh now you people care about girl’s sports in high school.”
"Trans girl banned from girls' volleyball in high school, remaining team still has a budget of $50/year".
> The law applies to public school students in grades 7 through 12 who participate in interscholastic sports. Gordon noted in his decision letter that there are only four known transgender students competing in school athletics in the state.
These lawmakers should probably have to say it to their faces. It wouldn’t take too long after all.
In our reality there are very few transgendered athletes in high school sports. A bill like this was passed by the Maryland legislator. The governor vetoed it because he found out it only affected like four or five students. Honestly this is something that sports regulatory commissions should be addressing. Not the government. Overall high school sports are overblown.
Is this really the most important thing we need to pass laws about? No bank regulations, no climate change, no homelessness or drug abuse and mental health or abortion... Just a law to stop one dude that is now a girl from competing in high school sports? Ok.
The Wyoming State Legislature _did_ pass bills some of that. You just don't know about it because it doesn't make good headlines or generate outrage.
[Here's one of the four or so Mental Health Bills that were passed.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0140)
[Here's one for Suicide Prevention.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0065)
Expanding Medicaid coverage for women post partum? [They did that.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0004)
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"This is horrible. Approved."
Best pull request comment
LHTM
Long Hamburger To Me!
>LHTM HTML
Afraid am I of programming languages that come up with Yoda might.
[Done](https://youtu.be/MA31vJwdst0)
If their state works like any other, there's nothing he could've done but veto it only for it to be overridden. If the bill had enough support to get to his desk then it had enough support for his veto to not matter.
Then veto the bill. Even if it's on principle.
“Gov. Mark Gordon allowed the bill to become law without his signature Friday.” That’s the *second* sentence of the article. He did exactly what governors who know their veto will be over ridden do to protest bills. He didn’t sign it and didn’t endorse it.
> He did exactly what governors who know their veto will be over ridden do to protest bills. He didn’t sign it and didn’t endorse it. That's bs He should STILL veto it, force them to override it. Allowing it to become law without signing it is some mealy-mouthed bs, unless there's some magical property about a law not being signed that makes it easier to overturn
Why? Seriously, if you don’t have an answer, think hard about why you feel so strongly. The pocket veto is a time-honored tradition. A full veto costs political capital that isn’t always worth spending.
Because they're never going to spend that political capital. And even IF they were willing to, the opposition doesn't care about that and isn't going to respect it. The extreme right wing doesn't respect norms or decorum, they seemingly can't be whipped into supporting things due to past relationships. They have two things they care about: anything they perceive as owning the libs, and hurting the people they deem enemies. "Conserving your political capital" is meaningless if spending that political capital doesn't matter. Trying to hold to norms that the opposing team doesn't respect and isn't encoded in law is useless political theater, and we should be tired of politicans pretending it isn't. edit: But I'm sure the trans youth of Wyoming will be very comforted by the political capital that was saved here today
Or you could grow some balls and actually veto it
Exactly, he has the bully pulpit, he has the veto.
The Utah Governor did that last session, this session he didn’t bother, not worth the loss of political capital…
That's the whole point of principles, standing up for something even when doing so costs you something. "Eh, don't bother, it won't do any good." is literally the antithesis of having or standing for principles. Risking that political capital is standing on principle. Cox (UT gov) is a spineless coward and just tows the party line, only once in a great while does he exercise the barest of minimums to appear mildly humane, when the risk to his political capital is at it's lowest.
> That's the whole point of principles, standing up for something even when doing so costs you something. Arguably, they are only principles when standing up for them costs you something. Otherwise it's just an idea you like.
I'm going to have to remember that, well said.
I don't know anything about the this man or this specific situation, but assuming you have multiple issues you care about you can't always risk all of your political capital on just one thing. Then you can't achieve any of your other goals.
The specific situation is the Utah GOP and Mormon church, like most of the GOP at large, are about power and not leadership. All he cares about is keeping power, that's it. All his actions are based around that. He's got no grand plan, he's not got some "worth fight" that he's gearing up for. If that were the case, then I can understand the political capital argument, but in Utah, there's nothing of note. His only competition is maintaining his seat against whoever the next up and coming Mormon Rep might be, not in bettering the state for all those that live here. (see air pollution, water usage, education....all are the party, if he takes a stand at all...)
It's too bad that trans rights are low on his priorities list, then. Hope he gets that tax bill he wanted with his saved political capital, or whatever.
We're currently talking about Republican governors of solidly republican states, correct? The governor not caring enough to be an active dick to you is probably about as good as its gets for transpeople there.
People lose everything from loved ones to their lives over points of principle. This fella can't even lose some political clout.
Wow, what morality.
> loss of political capital Politicians save political capital like I save elixirs in RPGs, they ain't ever going to use it, even if they did it's not like the insane repubs are going to be like "no it's cool bro let's give him this win, remember all that political capital he's got" and we need to stop covering for them
The embodiment of *First They Came For*
How dare he follow principle and govern with morals! The super-PAC won't get funded _that way_, we govern based off what our massas tell us toos.
Do most states only require a simple majority to overrule governor vetoes? I thought mine was just stupid.
No most require supermajorities of some kind. But this is Wyoming; the State House is 57-5 Republican while the Senate is 28-2 Republican. Wyoming is effectively a one-party state.
And the funny thing is I still know people who complain about "the RINOs in public office"
One of the rare cases where it isn’t just heavily gerrymandered, they actually vote heavily in that direction. It’s not like Wisconsin which shockingly doesn’t get more attention. Wisconsin had the governor, Secretary of State, and attorney general all democrat in 2022, narrowly lost the senate race, and yet the Wisconsin state assembly is still a republican super majority with 64 R 35 D as the breakdown in the state assembly. It’s about a 16% vote advantage for Rs after they did heavy redistributing. They, sadly, aren’t even the most gerrymandered state either, that’s believed to be Indiana. They have been praising victor orban a lot lately, a now dictator of Hungary who started out as a regularly elected official who took control over the country’s political and legal systems making it so his conservative party never loses elections. It’s clear why.
You can see the partisan breakdowns of each state senate here: https://ballotpedia.org/Historical_partisan_composition_of_state_senates Wyoming and Massachusetts seem to be two of many one-party-states.
No, the vast majority are 2/3rds. Like 6 are a simple majority.
what he could do to further his 'pseudo' point, is report on the COST of multiple state & local politicians' salaries spent debating, working on and drafting and assembling for any and all aspects of this bill over the last few years - tally it up into the (likely) hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars, and then mention there's **4 transgendered athletes competing in girls' sports in the entire state.**
Of note, the article said 4, but didn't actually specify if they were playing on girls teams. Makes me wonder if even the 4 are split
Probably some are trans men/boys too. As well as trans women and girls competing in sports that physical strength is not crucial in, like golf or rifle.
Uhhh how does strength not help with rifles? If you're stronger you can throw the rifle more fast
What?
Physical strength is the most important part of riflry. Without good shoulder and arm muscles you just can't throw the rifle nearly as far.
Lol
Might as well have named it the “We specifically hate Jessica, Emma, Mia and Sophie bill.”
"But as I continue, you know they gettin' legal" MAGA Number 5
Just a small note, it’s not quite right to say “transgendered”. Using the participle (that ends in -ex) implies that “transgender” is a verb that happens to someone. Instead use “transgender” athletes, using it as an adjective that describes something about what a person *is*.
That's actually exactly it. He also allowed a budget increase to pass by aging out without signing it (which by statute automatically moves it to the wyo Senate) just to show his lack of support for it iirc.
Sounds like a line out of the Good Place
https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/SF0133 It passed 51-10 in the House and 27-3 in the Senate. It would have been overridden. He realized it didn't matter what the hell he did, so he did what cost him the least amount of political capital -- he took his ball and went home.
"I will not stand for this!" *sits down.*
“I’m playing both sides, so that I always come out on top”
My understanding was that he's allowing it through (without his signature!) so that they can start the lengthy lawsuits to overturn the bill sooner, without having to wait for the veto and the inevitable override to go through the legislature. He even lays out potential legal arguments against the bill in his letter, which will both undermine the enforcement of the bill itself and help any legal challenges. Given that he would have been overriden anyway, this is potentially much more helpful than a veto would have been. edit: To be clear, his allyship is half-hearted, given that he has basically said the law has its heart in the right place, but the rest of the letter is just about the best thing he's done on the issue.
I'm from Wyoming, and from experience, he's a cowardly piece of shit. He'll play middle of the aisle but always go full republican. Wyoming has become a horrible place to live, not because it's any less beautiful but because the people have made it horrible for anyone with a differing mindset.
That's a great description of the Midwest/plains generally. Nebraska isn't quite as far along, but we're sure trying.
Meanwhile Minnesota just passed free breakfast and lunch for all schoolchildren
Interesting. Where did you get this analysis?
https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1637115492769865729
Thanks kindly.
I'm from Wyoming and this is actually something I've heard people talk about a lot. The chances of him getting reelected if he goes against the bill is extremely slim imo
Well, as long as his personal ambitions are secure, that's all that matters.
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A basic understanding of how our government operates is a good start to avoiding the need for pitchfork inducing headlines like this.
Exactly.
“Draconian… in a good way”
"Let the people have Dracon!"
"The People like Dragons, right?"
That's positively draconian!
*Shadow the Hedgehog voice* “This is just like taking rights from trans people, which is fine by me!”
He didn’t sign it. He chose not to veto it, because the veto wouldn’t have mattered, and you don’t expend political capital just to impress people on the internet who think that hollow, performative bullshit is the highest form of activism.
A paraphrase: >I object to the bill, but I don't object object to the bill. I find the bill objectionable, but not to the point where my ability to object becomes an objection. I consider this bill draconian but I am a dragon. I recognize injustice and give it a neighborly wave.
>I recognize injustice and give it a neighbourly wave This is the best description of the republican party I have ever read.
It's the GOP. The wave is more akin to Smilin' Bob because they're the cialis party
My man quick with the 20+ year old references.
20 years ago was 2003 😭😭
Yabba dabba doo!
Bob used Enzyte, he was contractually forbidden from using cialis
The comment would be much stronger if it was just that line. Sums up the situation and party really well.
A better one will be "I object to the bill, so I won't sign it so it will be easier to fight in the courts, I will also provide a legal argument in my response to why I don't think this bill is legal".
Does he think draconian means “like a dragon”??
The comment is a paraphrase. He didn’t actually say anything about dragons.
Greek Drakon, literally dragon, is the etymological source of draco, so yeah it basically does.
That's like saying Orwellian basically means "like the river Orwell" because that's where his name comes from. Both words refer to the person (in the case of draconic, Draco), not the root of their name.
🔥🔥🔥
But he also said in a decision letter that the ban "is overly draconian, is discriminatory without attention to individual circumstances or mitigating factors, and pays little attention to fundamental principles of equality."
“Overly draconian and discriminatory” is basically the 2024 GOP platform...they might as well print it and put it on bumper stickers.
Words are cheap.
He basically passed it so it could be overturned in court sooner. https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1637115492769865729
Words are all you have when the Wyoming House vote margin was 5 to 1 in favor of this.
In this case his words are intended to be used in the legal argument to have the bill overturned, which would take longer if he had simply vetoed the bill and then been overruled by a super majority. Sometimes, words are expensive
That's exactly what the right like. Discriminatory, Draconian laws that are anti equality.
This is Draconian. Call me Vlad the Impaler baby.
FYI, the word has nothing to do with Dracula (or Vlad). It actually originates with an Ancient Greek legislator named Draco, known for a legal code by which even minor offenses were punished severely. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconian_constitution
For some reason I read this in Nick Kroll's voice doing Rick the hormone monster from Big Mouth
Yall need to read the article more often.
Thanks for mentioning this. The second paragraph says he didn't sign it and objected to it in a decision letter. The upcoming law still fucking sucks, but the headline obscures the circumstances.
They worded it this way because governor of Wyoming has the power to veto bills. However, the legislature also had more than enough [votes](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/SF0133) in both houses to override a veto, but on rare occasions governors veto anyways to make a point. Personally, I’m not going to give him flack because a veto would have been purely symbolic. The vote won by a massive margin in both houses and they would’ve overridden the veto in a matter of days. His statements and the fact that he didn’t sign it had the same effect.
Nuance? In my Reddit? Nonsense!
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Because the letter he wrote is full of legal arguments to help the bill be overturned. If he had simply vetoed he would have been overruled anyway, and the legal process would have then taken even longer
Hot take: trans MTF athletes who underwent male puberty shouldn’t be allowed to compete against women. Male puberty gives definitive competitive advantages and makes it unfair for the women competing in the sport. There is no perfect solution to this problem, but I feel like making the competition fair for the vast majority of the athletes competing in the field is a far better solution than the small fraction of MTF trans athletes that may feel excluded from the preferred division they want to compete in. The entire point of separating the divisions by biological gender in the first place was to allow for fair competition and a place for women to compete.
Honestly I don't think this is a hot take and most people would agree. But on sites like reddit you are downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting this.
This article shouldn't even be on nottheonion. It's not an outlandish thing that is so ridiculous it seems like satire.
Few here ever competed in sports, much less coed sports.
If they did they would realize that this is not the hill to die on. I care deeply about the issue but this is not it... the difference is immediately noticeable.
Pretty sure this attitude has scared away the majority of trans people from pursuing sports. Why draw attention when your community is attacked on a daily basis?
Meanwhile, on reddit, this take is being upvoted repeatedly in multiple comments.
By people who I doubt have played or watched a sport since high school lol
Oh yea. And their responses only make you dislike them more. They’ve literally turned me into someone who doesn’t give a shit or understand to someone absolutely disagrees.
Trans women shouldn't compete in women's division, and trans men on testosterone shouldn't compete in women's division. Both offer a clear unfair advantage. I apologize to the .2% of people who are trans and want to compete in sports, but it's a life changing decision that comes with repercussions. Just make 2 divisions, women's and open.
The only surprise here is that he actually said out loud what is obvious to any rational person. That he caved to bigots is more or less the norm with Republican politicians these days. Spineless opportunists top to bottom, if they’re not outright fascists themselves.
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> They lie to themselves that they’re doing shit for freedom or women’s rights for something that does the complete opposite. I mean I have enjoyed the sudden dramatic 180 from everyone who used women's sports as a punch line for most of their lives suddenly having a deep and thoughtful concern about the competitive integrity of women's sports.
Honestly I don't disagree with this law entirely. Only real concession I would make is MtF trans people can play women's sports if they started transitioning pre-puberty. If you just open the gates entirely you will end up with two issues that create safety liabilities for cis-female athletes. - MtF who transitioned post puberty and retain an enlarged skeletal structure and bone density over cis females (generally higher muscle density as well since it hasn't been long since they transitioned) - FtM in transition who are taking testosterone and other male hormones, but still competing against cis women (this is akin to giving some athletes free reign to use hgh). Overall I still think the best solution is just to give trans people their own divisions, or just put all genders in one division and watch the cis men dominate entirely like biology says they will in a battle of strength and speed.
> The only surprise here is that he actually said out loud what is obvious to any rational person. What is obvious to every rational person?
"You people make me sick...... BUT you pay my bills by reflecting me, so......."
Very unpopular opinion: Trans women do not belong in sports where they directly compete against biological women. Trans or not, biological men are built differently and it's a terrible advantage. Edit: since some people have the need to be pedantic. It works both ways. "Trans men" to "trans women".
This is an unpopular opinion? I thought it was common sense lol
It's "unpopular" on sites like here & Twitter, common senses literally everywhere else
This is the type of shit that conservatives feast on. It's ridiculous, and it makes the left look crazy because it is crazy
Just based on how votes are going, it doesn't seem to be unpopular here. Likely varies depending on subreddit though.
This shouldn't be unpopular, it's just common fucking sense. Like saying the sky is blue or water is wet.
> Like saying the sky is blue or water is wet. How dare you?!? You nazi!!! /s
This is the prevailing opinion outside social media. Social media is irrational and emotional, and mostly run by teenagers.
As a trans person, this just makes sense. Just because I don't fit in my body doesn't negate what that body is capable of.
When science is the enemy...but yea it should be very logical to understand. That being said everyone should be allowed to excersise and compete - they need to create a new division for Transathletes. Question is: how many competitors and investors are interested tho?
If social media is an indicator, a lot. But I don't see anyone putting their money where their mouth is. it is a very slippery slope because "feelings".
WWDD: “What would Draco do?”
I only know what Drago would do (kill Apollo Creed in a fight, lose to Rocky eventually)
After puberty, boys hold many physical advantages over girls. If you want to argue that boys don’t have any meaningful physical advantages before puberty I’d be willing to entertain that. Overall I think this bill makes a lot of sense.
I just think it should be medical studies and the sports organizations themselves that come up with the policy. Not the state. There's still a lot of work to be done on if certain lengths of time are viable for elimination of advantages. Also if the child was on puberty blockers and then later on started hormone therapy and only ever trained as their preferred gender then does that also reduce the advantage. There's just so much left.to look at and understand. I think of it like the government reaction to classify drugs, they didn't care for medical truth, they just wanted to look tough on something. >Gordon noted in his decision letter that there are only four known transgender students competing in school athletics in the state. Willing to do a whole blanket ban to target just four individuals. Wonder if child deaths from firearms makes them want to ban anything or pass laws that will better protect children.
Wait. What specifically is "draconian" here? Can someone elaborate? Because if all this is doing is establishing that trans women can't play in women's sports, I honestly don't see the issue. Is there more to this bill that I'm not aware of?
Know this I will be unpopular but either have them play with the men as an open field and allow women as well or in co-Ed sports, or lastly in their own division. Let women play against women we have seen what happens from mma to swimming it is not a level playing field
Why is it that men who transition don’t like playing sports with other men? Lia thomas and laurel hubbard don’t have a competitive edge within their own male gender. They are winning unfairly and don’t deserve their awards. Don’t ignore simple fact that males are stronger/faster than females. I hate that this is even an issue. This is why everyone makes fun of the US, we as a country are concerned over the wrong issues. Stay out of women sports, you don’t belong there and if truly care about equal rights don’t take from women. Below are some real issues to fight about: *Taxation of corporations *Crumbling infrastructure *Ohio chemical spills *Falling public school system *Biased media *Prisons making money off inmates *Unfair lobbying *Inflation the list goes on…. Quit crying over nonsense.
Indeed, those problems are what lawmakers should care about and be working on, not wasting their time blanket banning 5 or 6 people per state from women's sports > men who transition don't like playing with other men trans men *do* play sports with men. but you're probably just using bigoted terminology and referring to trans women as "men", in which case it's because transitioning from male to female, and the subsequent massive decrease in testosterone, causes significant muscle atrophy that brings overall physical ability fairly in line with cis women. You don't hear about most transfem athletes, because they usually have fairly average performance in womens divisions. There are rare exceptions of course, like Lia Thomas, but *she was already a high ranking competitor in the men's division.* And in fact, when she started transitioning, the changes to her body caused her to drastically drop in placement as a result. She only gets such high marks in the women's division because *she's an exceptional athlete.* Not to mention that trans women would never have any advantage if they never go through male puberty in the first place. If a young trans girl manages to get puberty blockers *before* going through male puberty, they'd be nigh indistinguishable from a cis woman. How is it fair to ban them too?
The ban is fine.
"I'm playing both sides so I always come out on top"
Draconian you say? YES! /S
Ftm is ok to play on male sports teams though?
The "male" sports teams are really open to all. Females just can't compete - hence needing their own teams.
Yes - that's never been an issue. The issue is that women transitioning from male to female want to play with other women (obviously), but since they're still primarily biologically male, they have an unfair advantage over the other women. To be honest, people who don't appreciate the nuance here are the problem.
Men's leagues are typically "open" largues that women just aren't competitive in. The NBA is technically all-gender, women just are only competitive in the wnba
I honestly say it's alright since there is no biological advantage. It has been accepted to allow women in men's sports but, not the other way around due to there being pyshical advantage. Mtf is unfair for the women participating.
I'm pretty sure in a large number of sports the male side is actually open, anyone who wants to can compete, so in many cases that wouldn't be an issue. Cis women could also compete in those instances if they wanted to and we're good enough.
Honest question: Since athletics is a measure of biological physical potential, what’s wrong with designating participation based on biological sex rather than gender identity? Boxing, wrestling and other sports subdivide into weight competitions to create more of a biological equivalence so the skills can be evaluated among those of equivalent physical power. As M to F trans athletes still retain greater muscle/tendon/bone strength than even equivalently sized cis F, what injustice is being done by classifying competition based on biological sex as long as it still provides a means for trans athletes to compete within that framework. I understand that much of the transition process is to avoid the body dysphoria and tragically elevated suicide rates that psychological stress creates, but if trans identity was normalized as a fully accepted, open & shame-free identity by society at large, wouldn’t that be better than trying to shoehorn them into a traditional sexual **binary system** in what is increasingly recognized as a spectrum with some fluidity? Isn’t trying to contain their gender in that binary reductive, constraining, and in some form perpetuating an unhealthy non-acceptance of their trans- reality? This is what I worry might exacerbate the dysphoria & alienation….The sense that if they’re not seen as completely identical to biologically cis people then they’re being maligned by society rather than accepted…Which I suspect is fueling much of the pushback societally that might be mitigated by abandoning the claim that a transgender person is absolute “no different” than a cisgendered one. Why not embrace the difference…embrace the identity…& embrace the trans- prefix rather than concealing it as if it were a point of shame? I can’t help seeing the effort to deny any biological sexual differences which really do exist as another form of “closet” trans people are getting stuck in when the whole point should be pride in whatever a person is.
I thought Reddit generally agreed that trans athletes shouldNt compete in the womens league
Depends on what sub you're in. Nottheonion is a huge hard left political circle jerk sub.
Sorry folks, don't know if the bill is fair or not - but, need to state this clearly. The trans community needs to do better or risk losing mainstream acceptance. Male to female transitions are clearly advantages, it is biological. To say otherwise is arguing in bad faith.
I mean there is a reason the top pro women's basketball teams train with d2 men's college teams. Thats about were the women peak in terms of ability. They still get smoked and crushed by the top boys high-school teams. Women's dont have the speed or strength to keep up. Its science. They can play all day I dont care but people kidding themselves the field is equal have probably never played a sport against the other sex.
He meant it as a compliment
No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season. These bans are ridiculous, but because transgender persons are an easy target, republican politicians have made destroying them a platform their hateful base can get behind.
At the same time, if someone does transition it doesn't give them the right to ruin competition for other people. Idk, sports isn't the end of the world, if your physical condition makes you an unfair participant then you simply should not participate.
> No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season Yeah, the real reason they go to all that trouble is so they can creep on girls in the bathroom. /s
I know you're being sarcastic, but actually people who want to creep on girls in the bathroom transition into being conservative policitians. Absolutely not /s
They’re all in for government so small it becomes a Glade plugin in your bathroom.
Quite the opposite, they are all about big government in the form of a police officer for every single person below a certain income threshold that watches them take a piss to make sure they didn't piss wrong.
Don’t forget all the evangelicals (like 35-40% of our country) would gladly expand the govt to include a 4th branch that would deal in theology. The small govt shit was always non sense. It really just refers to them not wanting to expand the social safety net. Big govt in terms of military or enforcement of anti-abortion laws are A-ok
They still have a biologically male body, there is a reason male and female athletes are seperated. I know its not nice for a small percentage of society but we cant make decisions that impacts half of the country in a negative way so a few can feel a bit better.
Can someone explain to me how it isn’t unfair for a trans-women born as a biological male to compete against cis-gender females? Have yet to hear that argument. To be clear I’m pro trans rights in every possible way but as a lifelong sports fan I can’t deny that some trans women clearly have a competitive advantage over their cis-gendered peer athletes. Olympic Swimming, UFC, and Professional Disc golf (not conservative organizations by any stretch of the imagination) have all had to impose rules preventing trans-female participation in female divisions to keep things fair.
So much is like this, and if you question 1 little line you are a bigot. Maybe transwomen shouldn't just dunk on cist women all the time, and maybe kids shouldn't go to drag shows are pretty reasonable opinions. Every other opinion I have on trans or drag mirrors super left wing reddit. I will at some point be called a trump loving nazi for that opinion.
Yea idk I don’t think drag shows for kids are bad as long as everyone is dressed decently lol. But yea It’s really not good. Nuance is responded to as if it’s hate way too often.
The issue becomes who can receive college scholarships and if it unfairly penalizes non transitioned female athletes. That is a real problem, but a better solution has to exist that isn’t so draconian
Yeah. Super unpopular opinion but I don’t think it’s fair that a person born male can compete with females and we accept it as a level playing field. I don’t have the right answer on how to handle it in a caring and compassionate way, but I do think it’s unfair.
It wouldn’t be a big deal if high school sports was just a pickup game for fun. Some people want to pretend college scholarships aren’t a big deal.
Has any trans girl gone to college on a full ride sports scholarship ever? There are probably scholarships just for trans kids they would have statistically much better shots at, and if there aren't, there should be. That's how you keep them from accepting the hypothetical sports scholarship they have never been offered in the first place.
Transpeople have barely attained some form of acceptance recently. You can’t use history as an argument when they’re only now being allowed in public life.
Isn’t the better solution to have them play in the open league like this bill does? CIS women deserve a space to be able to fairly compete with one another.
What? How could you think that? You’re such a bigot /s
Maybe just maybe instead of pissing themselves over scholarships, Americans should go and strike for affordable education. Maybe just maybe being good at sports shouldn't put you in a better place for an education than the good student who isn't overwhelmingly good in any specific subject but is good across the board. Maybe just maybe the whole idea of scholarships is a draconian treatment of the symptoms of the illness that is for profit education.
Why don’t we just change the entire government? Just flip a switch and fix everything!
This is called a speculative harm, that has yet to be realized. Draconian laws do real harm, right away!
> That is a real problem It's really not though. It's more of a hypothetical problem that pretty much never happens in reality.
Dealing with hypothetical issues like “what if all the guys cut off their dicks to win Regional State Championships in volleyball?!” And “if we let them marry each other they’ll marry animals next!” Is what republicans are good at. Real issues like “what if it’s too easy for a 15yo to get his hands on enough semi automatics and ammo to kill dozens of elementary and kindergarten students in mere minutes?” Are what they have a hard time with.
Correct. This legislation targets a statistical anomaly overall. The right lost their battle against gay rights, so is using trans people as a way to get even moderates frothing at the mouth.
>The right lost their battle against gay rights, so is using trans people as a way to get even moderates frothing at the mouth. Even if they won in recriminalizing homosexuality, they still would've gone after trans people. The right being the right always needs an 'other' to blame everything on, to scapegoat every problem onto. To present as wholly evil, as impure, as a threat to society. What's odd about today is that they aren't 'othering' one group to get every other group on side (such as making LGB alliance more popular, fun fact those fucks membership is primarily self identified straight people). They are just 'othering' everyone, trans people, gay people, non-binary individuals, immigrants, atheists, Muslims, Jews (ethnically and religious), the list goes on. Yet somehow they still got so many supporters who see nothing wrong with hating everyone who isn't a Cis Het Christian deep in conservative politics born in America.
The population of Wyoming is less than 600k people. It’s a mid-sized city spread out over 100k square miles. They do not have a “real” problem with trans athletes. They have other “real” problems they could be dealing with but have landed on hate.
I’ve seen a lot of people clutching their pearls over this possibility, but I’ve never actually seen a single real life example of it happening. Mostly because significant college scholarships for female athletes are rarely even a thing.
> Mostly because significant college scholarships for female athletes are rarely even a thing. This is not even close to being correct.
Lol I have to hope they don’t think it’s correct and are just being obtuse. Female athletes have tons of opportunity for college scholarships.
> Mostly because significant college scholarships for female athletes are rarely even a thing. You are out of your mind. There's _ton's_ of College Scholarships for female athletes, it's at least 1:1 between men and women and likely 1:1.5.
If you are upset about shady sports scholarships, you should probably check out… the entire NCAA. Its basically an open secret all the rules recruiters break trying to get kids to come to their school. Suddenly one (hypothetical) trans student athlete getting a scholarship is a huge deal? Give me a fucking break. If people cared that much about the integrity of sports scholarships, trans kids are literally the last place to look.
This is kinda like when people attack affirmative action to colleges, ignoring the whole problem of legacy admissions.
Exact same thing. Conservatives figure out what they don’t like, and then try to figure out why those things might be a problem, completely ignoring the much bigger problems surrounding whatever boogeyman they’ve made up. Another example. Drag is, very simplistically, wearing clothes and makeup. These people will walk around with automatic killing machines on their hips and complain the clothes other people choose to wear are a danger to society without a shred of awareness. A few of them will have “fuck your feelings” clothing on. Can’t make this shut up man.
https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/how-one-swimmer-became-the-focus-of-a-debate-about-trans-athletes Title ix, also says male and female scholarship opportunities have to be the same. I think it's skewed to men still but I'd hardly say there's no female opportunities.
That's not the point. The point is that they have an unfair advantage because they're transitioning from being biologically male. They can still compete in the men's groups.
... but what about all the instances of Trans women playing and dominating in women's sports? Are we just pretending this never happens?
> No one on the planet is going through transitioning just so they can win a high school sport trophy for 1 season Maybe it says something about America's obsession with high school sports, that anyone thinks they would. Mostly it says something about America's intolerance, though :(
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> “oh now you people care about girl’s sports in high school.” "Trans girl banned from girls' volleyball in high school, remaining team still has a budget of $50/year".
> The law applies to public school students in grades 7 through 12 who participate in interscholastic sports. Gordon noted in his decision letter that there are only four known transgender students competing in school athletics in the state. These lawmakers should probably have to say it to their faces. It wouldn’t take too long after all.
Trans athletes should only compete with their birth gender. Fucking fight me. This shit is stupid
The problem with this entire subject is that at some level any decision in any direction is unfair to someone. Not for a minute excusing them.
In our reality there are very few transgendered athletes in high school sports. A bill like this was passed by the Maryland legislator. The governor vetoed it because he found out it only affected like four or five students. Honestly this is something that sports regulatory commissions should be addressing. Not the government. Overall high school sports are overblown.
If this is the bill I am thinking of (HB0757 in 2022), it never made it out of committee in Maryland.
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Is this really the most important thing we need to pass laws about? No bank regulations, no climate change, no homelessness or drug abuse and mental health or abortion... Just a law to stop one dude that is now a girl from competing in high school sports? Ok.
The Wyoming State Legislature _did_ pass bills some of that. You just don't know about it because it doesn't make good headlines or generate outrage. [Here's one of the four or so Mental Health Bills that were passed.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0140) [Here's one for Suicide Prevention.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0065) Expanding Medicaid coverage for women post partum? [They did that.](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0004)
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