So the temptation to send a text with, “Hi Honey on the plane now” to “Honey can you google what a 069-01900 Cleveland BOLT is supposed to do. Love you.
We were just talking about life insurance and my SO assured me he'd die first so I don't need insurance on me. I reminded him how frequently I fly and how frequently serious incidents are happening. He said go ahead and double my policy
Even given the bad rep of Boeing, I still feel far safer on a plane than in my own car.
Not to mention if I die cause of Boeing's fuck up, I am sure my family will be able to get quite a handsome settlement.
I was on a 737max8 recently with exteme turbulance, and the pilot squemishly warning us, sounding a bit distressed that we were going to have to land with max braking, with a 45mph wind
I was briefly weighing the pros and cons of surviving an air crash
This was before all the stuff going on right now, my wife and I did our Covid-Delayed honeymoon in 2022, and the flight home was awful.
Yes I’m terrified of heights but typically am pretty good on planes, and have dealt with pretty bad turbulence before. Normally I sleep through it, or mostly ignore it. . .or look at the flight crew to see how worried they looked and I’m typically at ease.
On this one particular flight coming back into Newark [I know, right], the turbulence got so bad that the Captain literally get on the intercom to say [and this was almost a years ago so I’m paraphrasing as best I can remember it]
[Actually I pulled up some texts I sent to friends immediately afterwards and these were the ones I sent to them after we landed]
- “hey everyone we are going to start our descent early and have the flight attendants sit down now…because this is not going to be fun going down”
- And that lovely “hey just tor remind everyone to stay buckled because I’m…this plane is really unstable right now”
I white knuckled the next half hour, and was pretty sure I’d die.
Normally I would agree with you, but Boeing has basically been caught cutting corners and their quality has notably decreased with several I cidents in a relatively short span.
It would be if Boeing didn't have all kinds of technical issues over the last decade including one that caused a couple planes to nosedive straight into the ground.
lol. You have 1 recent Airbus incident, that was incredibly minor, compared to like a dozen of Boeing incidents, several of which are incredibly bad, including hundreds of deaths if you want to include the first Max crashes.
Boeing issue is real. maybe slightly over reported and causing more fear than needed due to clicks but its def not fear bait. Plane crashes, are more traumatic due to the number of deaths instantly and boeings current issue has killed many and it seems to be systemic. If you dont want to read about it, just scroll on, but the issue is real.
Should you give up flying? I wouldnt but like it or not, the odds of dying on a boeing compared to an airbus just went up. and we would like to get that back to 1 in 11 million flights like we like it. Id still fly one you are still more likely to get killed in many other ways, but the company needs an overhaul and needs to go back to caring more about engineering than shareholders.
I think the force of the wind from the plane equalizing the outside pressure would be enough to pull the metal clasp off your seat belt. I stared and thought a lot about that on my flights last month.
True. I was thinking as the person in the seat where the panel blew off. Since the seat was hanging out with the flow pulling out. I was in the window seat and have a morbid view of things haha. If I remember correctly, the clasps also pulled toward the wall on either side of the plane to unhook so that didn’t help my anxiety either.
On that flight the hole opened up shortly after takeoff and not close to 10,000 ft yet. It would’ve been a lot worse if it happened at cruising altitude (which is the majority of time on a flight)
I've been having weird anxiety moments because my wife has to fly southwest for work and all the planes are almost exclusively, wouldn't you know, the main boeing fucking up. I know it will probably be fine, but I had a dream of me begging her not to go the day of, lol.
I would rather have my wife than money if anything major happened.
You won't get a parachute, but CEO Dave Calhoun has got his golden parachute - you might be stuck in one of his shitty 737 Max planes in addition to the 347 people already dead, but your sacrifice is one he is willing make.
IIRC the two seats next to the door plug got sucked out of the airplane. It was only because they were unoccupied nobody died or was seriously injured.
If you’re interested there’s a super good documentary on Netflix about it. Tl;dr the penny pinchers took over from the engineers in the late 90s and it’s been a spiral ever since
Very true. You seem like someone who’s read this already so I will leave this for others: [the maze is in the mouse](https://pravse.medium.com/the-maze-is-in-the-mouse-980c57cfd61a)
The colloquial term is getting Welshed. That bastard did more to destroy American manufacturing than anyone. And MBA schools teach that he was some sort of genius and role model.
Yup. The problem is there is pressure to endlessly increase shareholder value. But, when a company is about as big as it will ever get, the only way to make more money every year is to start cutting costs.
At first, that actually might be a good thing. Trim some fat. So, for five years or so all is fine. But, eventually that endless cost cutting starts eating into actual quality. Maybe only a little at first but each incremental change adds up and we get this mess.
But the crazy thing with Boeing is that those bean counter MBAs literally JUST ran McDonnell Douglas into the ground, to the point where Boeing had to take it over, and Boeing's big brain move is to immediately to those SAME mofos in charge of their own company?
Boggles the mind.
When I visited the Boeing plant in Everett 10+ years ago they were very proud of that “If it ain’t Boeing, I’m not going” slogan and ended the factory tour with it.
Sad how it’s come around to bite them in the ass reputation wise.
Be that as it may, even the 737 Maxes aren’t that unsafe in the grand scheme of things. Hundreds of these planes have made thousands of trouble-free flights over the past few years.
>Be that as it may, even the 737 Maxes aren’t that unsafe in the grand scheme of things. Hundreds of these planes have made thousands of trouble-free flights over the past few yea You don't read the news do you
They have made those trouble free flights because every country in the world grounded their planes for over a year and made them change them all. and even then the faa was so in bed with boeing they only capitulated after everyone had. If boeing had been left to their own devices they would be still plowing into the ground. The fact that the alaska flight didn't lead to a total Hull loss with no survivors is not down to any good work on boeings part it is blind luck that could have been the 3rd total loss of life incident. There is only 1.5 thousand of them in existence and 3 of them have had a serious accident through no fault of anyone but boeing. Imagine if 1 in 500 of a car sold had a serious deadly mechanical failure where they accelerated and breaks failed and killed everyone in it and the only reason it wasn't more was because after the first deadly failure there was government recall claiming they are safe.
That's because 10-15 years ago media was still fear mongering over Airbus's use of fly-by-wire technology.
When you look at aviation disasters, it's pretty randomly distributed. Media coverage on the other hand rarely is.
Well, yeah - exactly. I saw that too.
Kinda obvious to me if someone leaves a warning like that. Plus, he was scheduled to leave and I believe was asked to stay one more day by someone on Boeings side for a "meeting".
Years ago.. according to a distant connection. His own family think he killed himself. By saying that he was assassinated you're really disrespecting the man, and other suicide victims
Oh yeah, Boeing definitely killed him *after* he testified, because that makes sense! Also, ignore the fact that his own family has said that he did actually commit suicide, and was having suicidal thoughts.
Redditor conspiracy theorists are the worst.
People on reddit like the conspiracy idea but he reported the issues years ago and also has been retired for years. The impact of his reporting had already been fully felt. If Boeing did kill him it wasn't to hide anything and honestly it's wildly unlikely.
> he reported the issues years ago
And they'd been minimized, hushed up, and ignored until recently.
> he impact of his reporting had already been fully felt.
He was in the middle of giving his deposition. He still had damage left to do.
You make it sound like this was all done and finished years ago. In fact he died [just a few days before he was set to be cross-examined at trial](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703). He also recently told a friend that he was scared for his life, and ["if anything happens to me, it's not suicide"](https://www.newsweek.com/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblower-predicted-death-scandal-1879548).
Cross examined by Boeing in the defamation case that he is sueing Boeing for. Nothing to do with leaking information. All the information that he gave when he blew the whistle was released years ago.
when was the last time two passenger planes, of the same model crashed within a year
when was the last time missing bolts caused a door plug to pop off , and when all other planes of that type were inspected afterwards they found more missing bolts ?
In 2010 multiple Airbus A319s crashed due to malfunctions in landing gear. Also the Boeing 777 had a rough launch but still managed to do well commercially after.
As for the second one that's too specific to be a thing that happens multiple times but it reminds of a less catoscrophic version of the cargo door failure that sunk the reputation of the McDonnel Douglass DC-10 in the 70s and 80s. Still serviced DC-10s to this day are used to transport cargo rather than people.
Across all manufacturers, models and year of manufacture.
I’d be concerned about 737-Max specifically since they are demonstrably still undercooked despite repeated inspections.
Past performance is no indication of future performance especially when there are demonstrated company and regulatory failures/capture.
The 737NG has a lower crash rate than the A320. If you want to let yourself be swayed by the low sample size of the 737 MAX, that's one thing, but to say Boeing on the whole is less safe is objectively untrue.
Crash rate isn't ultimately a useful measurement of safety let alone reliability, simply because so many incidents and hull losses have nothing to do with either. Like, the only loss of an a320neo was because a fire engine drove in front of it during takeoff.
The 737NG was produced before new leadership took over. There’s clearly a lot of attention to Boeing right now, but it seems to be very warranted, and any airplane produced the past 10 years at Boeing are produced in that environment.
Management has heard your safety concerns about the 737 max, please step into my office to discuss. Don't mind standing on the plastic I'm having some painting done.
Joke all you want. But numbers are numbers. Airbus incidents are not nearly as reported as Boeing ones. And Boeing can't really take heat for 20+ year-old aircraft. Ask Spirit and other airlines with Airbus fleets how their Airbus A320 series planes are doing. (Yes it is an engine problem, but Boeing uses the same engine just a variation for Boeing, and doesn't have the same issues).
If i recall, its Boeing's newer models that have been having issues, not the older models. The older models would have been built with higher standards. Boeings standards have been declining for the past 20 years, with their planes gradually becoming lower and lower quality. I think with one model, they wanted to cheapen the design process and just modified an older design, but that actually doesn't work out well in practice as it throws off a lot of the enginnering
The MAX does not use the pratt and whitney Geared TurboFan which is having problems on the a32xneo and the a22x.
The a320neo series also offers the CFM leap engine as an option.
The max only offers the CFM leap
Just flew on a 737 Max from midway to tampa. I was worried a bit because of the news getting to me but then I thought like “would a pilot really keep flying this thing if he thought he was gonna die” and then I had some high noons and stopped caring
> then I thought like “would a pilot really keep flying this thing if he thought he was gonna die”
A pilot would [pay out of their own pocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_to_fly) for the privilege of shuttling your sorry ass around.
All but the top in that industry are exploited because it is a "dream career", like video game developers were for a long time.
The pilots flying that thing make their money with flying that thing.
Flying any other boeing or an airbus requires retraining, so it's not as easy for them, compared to a passenger avoiding boeing flights
Really those crashed because the airlines were poorly regulated and the pilots weren't trained. The problem is you really shouldn't need to have specific training to get around design issues caused by trying to get around regulations.
Thank you. The MAX is a great plane, and it flies wonderfully, and I put my own family on them all the time with no hesitiations. Now if they could only do something about the engine start times... MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING. "Hey how long until you're ready to taxi?" "It's a MAX." "Oh ok, about 6 minutes longer than an older one then."
True. But what are the stats on survival rates when it DOES crash, say vs other forms of transportation that crash (cars, trains, boats, etc)?
I know the chances of crashing are super low...but if it does happen...
Yeah the people I know who say this don’t really travel much anyway.
The virtue signaling sounds nice but I’m not holding my breath to see an actual dip in bookings on certain aircrafts.
Because it is so absurd that the name that used to stand for quality above anything else and led to the stellar reputation of the airline industry has taken over the joke that McDonell Douglas used to be known for (they made planes that did just what the 737max is doing now, failing), after having merged with McDonnell Douglas.
It would have been an Onion article not so long ago.
welllllll, didn't Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas, and the resulting company kept the name from Boeing and the work ethics from McDonnell Douglas?
Had to fly somewhere for work this week and reassured my nervous flyer wife that I’d be fine by showing her that none of my flights were on Boeing airplanes
I’m no big fan of Boeing or air travel in general but a person who is so risk-averse to commercial air travel that they won’t fly Boeing because of several incidents out of hundreds of thousands of flights should for consistency’s sake never ever even consider getting in an automobile.
Long ago, my farmer uncle (360 sections near Hilda) said 'if you want to own a DC-10, buy a field near the end of a runway and just collect the parts as they fall off'.
Old problems are new again. Just wait for the next Comet! Oh, right - 737 MAX. The difference being with the Comet they didn't know about the problem before they engineered it in.
The Boeing safety concerns are being blown slightly out of proportion. There really is only one problem child, the 737 Max. An airframe stretched far past its intended limits because airlines are too cheap to retrain pilots.
That said, a complete forced reshuffling of the current board would vastly increase Boeing's long term health.
They literally killed a dude for exposing them. Even said to his family "If I kill myself, I didn't kill myself." Or something to that effect. Guy went years claiming they were cutting corners. Finally got his day to go on the record. Was meant to come back again the next day and was like "Nah. I think I'm done now." No. Boeing fucking killed that dude and they have been cutting corners on a heinous amount of things in their aircraft. Fuck Boeing.
no, United, Southwest, Alaska, And American are the largest Boeing operators. Airlines don't like having two manufacturers to buy maintenance parts for.
Worked with a guy who was a mechanic with a well known budget airline in the UK, he quit after a few weeks after being frequently asked to sign for having carried out maintenance tasks that hadn't been done to turn planes around faster and being ordered to ignore certain faults so that they would be recorded and fixed in countries where labour is cheaper. He refuses to travel with that airline (not naming names but it starts with a man's name) although insists that his friends at other airlines did not experience the same. This was also a decade ago so no idea if things have improved.
Needless to say he was not surprised to hear the news about Boeing
How would an airlines safety standards he mentioned have anything to do with the news about Boeing, they are completely separate things. If an airline refuses manufacturer required maintenance that is not on the manufacturer lmao
When even an employee wont fly in the piece of shit you know you are right to be scared .
i will cut this short they seem to be using the workbook of Putin and make people suicide themself with 3 bullets in the head.
Who can blame them frankly. Not to mention with the sudden "suicide" of a whistleblower and the constant issues with the MAX I wouldn't want to fly on one either.
Has anyone died from one of these Boeing incidents?
It seems weird to be worried about that and not that 10,000 Americans have died in car crashes since the Boeing doors first made the news
Not since they were initially grounded as a result of two crashes in 2018 and 2019. The door plug blowout is obviously scary, but no one died or was injured.
Im reading this as I’m sitting in a Boeing 737 MAX 8 from American Airlines and a maintenance staff member is gluing the lights on the ceiling with superglue
yeah even first class these days sucks dick. show up 2 hours early, get groped by TSA (best part of the experience tbh), go get on a big tube with a bunch of sick people hacking up a lung and at least 7 babies crying nonstop, wait 30 minutes to taxi, finally take off, have a free ginger ale and peanuts, try to watch a movie while your ears pop, start to pray your rental car isn't a piece of shit....
ever since I discovered how beautiful the Michigan beaches are, and how they're 80% as nice as ocean beaches but I can drive there in 5 hours, I have not wanted to fly to a beach nearly as much
>Some...
>on social media platforms like TikTok
I'm of the opinion that you could make a story about pretty much any fucking dumb stupid thing you could think of if the only criteria was that "some" people had that thought.
“tHiS iSN’t oNiONy EnoUgH!” a commenter wrote on a post with several thousand upvotes. “My contrarianism is the voice of reason and will surely be recognised as such,” he said to himself as he hit *Reply*
My friend and I text each other goodbyes when we board Boeing planes now. I also ask him to let me know if the plane starts going down so I can short NYSE:BA while he crashes into the ocean.
I've got an overseas Boeing flight coming up in September, but it's on a plane that's about 20 years old. So that seems old, but it's actually a little reassuring because we're thinking maybe the planes had better quality control 20 years ago.
Flew on a Max8 a few days ago (Southwest). I had stayed on the aircraft at the layover as I was booked to continue to the next destination, and took that opportunity to snag an exit row aisle seat.
More than half the plane boarded and skipped right on by the exit row seats. I started to wonder if they’d made some announcement out at the gate until a few folks finally opted for the extra leg room. Weird. Flight was just fine unless I’m posting this from an M. Night Shyamalan flick
Airline companies have this waiver “a voluntary relinquishment of a known right and is executed prior to the activity. Basically, a participant surrenders their negligence-based personal injury claim against a business or company. This means the participant agrees to "hold harmless" the organization if they are injured”. They don’t have to pay, they will probably choose to in order to keep up their reputation
We feel differently in our family. We’re all trying to get window seats in hopes of winning the Boeing lotto. Will keep seat belt secured.
Keep seatbelt secured all the way down. Oh look a bolt?
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So the temptation to send a text with, “Hi Honey on the plane now” to “Honey can you google what a 069-01900 Cleveland BOLT is supposed to do. Love you.
“Please google, “how many extra screws should a plane have?” For me baby.”
Extra? Think this plane is made of screws? Oh wait…
Hahahaha…the divorce papers would be waiting for me at the gate as I deplaned.
Deplaned mid air is more of a technical issue.
If air travel wasn’t so strict now you could carry on a random bolt then send a picture of it to her while on the plane.
It just holds the brakes on. Should have no effect on the planes ability to fly. Now landing on the other hand might get a little dicey.
"About to push back. Why does it smell like diesel fuel? Ttyl" Lmfao.
We were just talking about life insurance and my SO assured me he'd die first so I don't need insurance on me. I reminded him how frequently I fly and how frequently serious incidents are happening. He said go ahead and double my policy
Even given the bad rep of Boeing, I still feel far safer on a plane than in my own car. Not to mention if I die cause of Boeing's fuck up, I am sure my family will be able to get quite a handsome settlement.
Is the economy really that bad we have begun low key planning our own company inflicted deaths so our families can cash in?
Yeah
You won the mile high club! It means you're fucked.
I was on a 737max8 recently with exteme turbulance, and the pilot squemishly warning us, sounding a bit distressed that we were going to have to land with max braking, with a 45mph wind I was briefly weighing the pros and cons of surviving an air crash
This was before all the stuff going on right now, my wife and I did our Covid-Delayed honeymoon in 2022, and the flight home was awful. Yes I’m terrified of heights but typically am pretty good on planes, and have dealt with pretty bad turbulence before. Normally I sleep through it, or mostly ignore it. . .or look at the flight crew to see how worried they looked and I’m typically at ease. On this one particular flight coming back into Newark [I know, right], the turbulence got so bad that the Captain literally get on the intercom to say [and this was almost a years ago so I’m paraphrasing as best I can remember it] [Actually I pulled up some texts I sent to friends immediately afterwards and these were the ones I sent to them after we landed] - “hey everyone we are going to start our descent early and have the flight attendants sit down now…because this is not going to be fun going down” - And that lovely “hey just tor remind everyone to stay buckled because I’m…this plane is really unstable right now” I white knuckled the next half hour, and was pretty sure I’d die.
A panel fell off a Delta flight on an airbus last week. The Boeing fear is just media fear baiting
Normally I would agree with you, but Boeing has basically been caught cutting corners and their quality has notably decreased with several I cidents in a relatively short span.
*and* the guy whistleblowing it all "killed himself"
It would be if Boeing didn't have all kinds of technical issues over the last decade including one that caused a couple planes to nosedive straight into the ground.
lol. You have 1 recent Airbus incident, that was incredibly minor, compared to like a dozen of Boeing incidents, several of which are incredibly bad, including hundreds of deaths if you want to include the first Max crashes.
Boeing issue is real. maybe slightly over reported and causing more fear than needed due to clicks but its def not fear bait. Plane crashes, are more traumatic due to the number of deaths instantly and boeings current issue has killed many and it seems to be systemic. If you dont want to read about it, just scroll on, but the issue is real. Should you give up flying? I wouldnt but like it or not, the odds of dying on a boeing compared to an airbus just went up. and we would like to get that back to 1 in 11 million flights like we like it. Id still fly one you are still more likely to get killed in many other ways, but the company needs an overhaul and needs to go back to caring more about engineering than shareholders.
Yeah I'm gonna need a list of airbus tragedies and ridiculous failures before I believe that. A panel falling off is nothing.
Call me when the panel depressurizes the cabin.
You get money????
If you live to sue Boeing, yes.
I think the force of the wind from the plane equalizing the outside pressure would be enough to pull the metal clasp off your seat belt. I stared and thought a lot about that on my flights last month.
I meannnnn the people on the Alaska Airlines flight lived and gonna get PAID
True. I was thinking as the person in the seat where the panel blew off. Since the seat was hanging out with the flow pulling out. I was in the window seat and have a morbid view of things haha. If I remember correctly, the clasps also pulled toward the wall on either side of the plane to unhook so that didn’t help my anxiety either.
On that flight the hole opened up shortly after takeoff and not close to 10,000 ft yet. It would’ve been a lot worse if it happened at cruising altitude (which is the majority of time on a flight)
Place your tray tables up and place your head into the brace position so we have more chance of identifying your remains. Sleep well.
I've been having weird anxiety moments because my wife has to fly southwest for work and all the planes are almost exclusively, wouldn't you know, the main boeing fucking up. I know it will probably be fine, but I had a dream of me begging her not to go the day of, lol. I would rather have my wife than money if anything major happened.
Left side ok then
IIRC two of the seats were ripped out of the plane. Seat belt won't matter at that point.
The Death Wish lotto?
You better hope that they screwed seat belts and seats properly
nah, Boeing was keeping that row empty because they knew the door was likely to blow off.
You'll have to make sure to get a plug window seat on a 737-9, to be exact
You won't get a parachute, but CEO Dave Calhoun has got his golden parachute - you might be stuck in one of his shitty 737 Max planes in addition to the 347 people already dead, but your sacrifice is one he is willing make.
IIRC the two seats next to the door plug got sucked out of the airplane. It was only because they were unoccupied nobody died or was seriously injured.
It’s crazy to think that 10-15 years ago Boeing was the pinnacle of quality.
So when was the takeover?
If you’re interested there’s a super good documentary on Netflix about it. Tl;dr the penny pinchers took over from the engineers in the late 90s and it’s been a spiral ever since
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Very true. You seem like someone who’s read this already so I will leave this for others: [the maze is in the mouse](https://pravse.medium.com/the-maze-is-in-the-mouse-980c57cfd61a)
It was a good read, thanks for sharing
The colloquial term is getting Welshed. That bastard did more to destroy American manufacturing than anyone. And MBA schools teach that he was some sort of genius and role model.
Yup. The problem is there is pressure to endlessly increase shareholder value. But, when a company is about as big as it will ever get, the only way to make more money every year is to start cutting costs. At first, that actually might be a good thing. Trim some fat. So, for five years or so all is fine. But, eventually that endless cost cutting starts eating into actual quality. Maybe only a little at first but each incremental change adds up and we get this mess.
This is why we need to change the law so companies don’t do that
Well how else are you supposed to deliver infinite growth in a finite market?
fraud im more surprised people havent been making up more info to give to advertisers
Weird thing with Google is the original founders are still alive and in charge - they have the majority of voting shares if I’m right.
But the crazy thing with Boeing is that those bean counter MBAs literally JUST ran McDonnell Douglas into the ground, to the point where Boeing had to take it over, and Boeing's big brain move is to immediately to those SAME mofos in charge of their own company? Boggles the mind.
Sorry I was making a point. To OP I have seen this and you are correct. When the accountants arrive everything fails.
The sad thing is that Boeing took over failing MD…and then decided to promote all the MD executives.
The saying is "McDonnell Douglas brought Boeing with Boeing's money."
because clearly whatever MD was doing was working right?? /s
THIS.
John Oliver had a good breakdown of it.
Oh it was [perfect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc).
When I visited the Boeing plant in Everett 10+ years ago they were very proud of that “If it ain’t Boeing, I’m not going” slogan and ended the factory tour with it. Sad how it’s come around to bite them in the ass reputation wise. Be that as it may, even the 737 Maxes aren’t that unsafe in the grand scheme of things. Hundreds of these planes have made thousands of trouble-free flights over the past few years.
>Be that as it may, even the 737 Maxes aren’t that unsafe in the grand scheme of things. Hundreds of these planes have made thousands of trouble-free flights over the past few yea You don't read the news do you They have made those trouble free flights because every country in the world grounded their planes for over a year and made them change them all. and even then the faa was so in bed with boeing they only capitulated after everyone had. If boeing had been left to their own devices they would be still plowing into the ground. The fact that the alaska flight didn't lead to a total Hull loss with no survivors is not down to any good work on boeings part it is blind luck that could have been the 3rd total loss of life incident. There is only 1.5 thousand of them in existence and 3 of them have had a serious accident through no fault of anyone but boeing. Imagine if 1 in 500 of a car sold had a serious deadly mechanical failure where they accelerated and breaks failed and killed everyone in it and the only reason it wasn't more was because after the first deadly failure there was government recall claiming they are safe.
That's because 10-15 years ago media was still fear mongering over Airbus's use of fly-by-wire technology. When you look at aviation disasters, it's pretty randomly distributed. Media coverage on the other hand rarely is.
Nervous makes it sound irrational. Boeing is clearly not as safe as airbus right now.
Doesn't seem safe to work at either. Didn't the guy who brought up the safety issue die suddenly?
Yeah. Suicide though. Poor guy shot himself in the back of the head twice. Worst case of suicide I’ve ever seen
Epstein’s was worse IMO Edit 1 letter typo
Boeing Whistleblower Didn’t Kill Himself
Yup. Shot himself twice in the back of the head..... /s Seriously tho, his death was definitely suspicious.
Suspicious? He said if he does it's not suicide
Well, yeah - exactly. I saw that too. Kinda obvious to me if someone leaves a warning like that. Plus, he was scheduled to leave and I believe was asked to stay one more day by someone on Boeings side for a "meeting".
Years ago.. according to a distant connection. His own family think he killed himself. By saying that he was assassinated you're really disrespecting the man, and other suicide victims
Oh yeah, Boeing definitely killed him *after* he testified, because that makes sense! Also, ignore the fact that his own family has said that he did actually commit suicide, and was having suicidal thoughts. Redditor conspiracy theorists are the worst.
People on reddit like the conspiracy idea but he reported the issues years ago and also has been retired for years. The impact of his reporting had already been fully felt. If Boeing did kill him it wasn't to hide anything and honestly it's wildly unlikely.
> he reported the issues years ago And they'd been minimized, hushed up, and ignored until recently. > he impact of his reporting had already been fully felt. He was in the middle of giving his deposition. He still had damage left to do.
You make it sound like this was all done and finished years ago. In fact he died [just a few days before he was set to be cross-examined at trial](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703). He also recently told a friend that he was scared for his life, and ["if anything happens to me, it's not suicide"](https://www.newsweek.com/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblower-predicted-death-scandal-1879548).
Cross examined by Boeing in the defamation case that he is sueing Boeing for. Nothing to do with leaking information. All the information that he gave when he blew the whistle was released years ago.
> People on reddit like the conspiracy Understatement of the year
US domestic airlines are currently averaging less than one death per *lightyear* travelled. Risk-reward ratio is still pretty good
the problem is the trend towards more accidents and the number of near misses.
Same accidents on average as always. It's just getting more media attention.
when was the last time two passenger planes, of the same model crashed within a year when was the last time missing bolts caused a door plug to pop off , and when all other planes of that type were inspected afterwards they found more missing bolts ?
In 2010 multiple Airbus A319s crashed due to malfunctions in landing gear. Also the Boeing 777 had a rough launch but still managed to do well commercially after. As for the second one that's too specific to be a thing that happens multiple times but it reminds of a less catoscrophic version of the cargo door failure that sunk the reputation of the McDonnel Douglass DC-10 in the 70s and 80s. Still serviced DC-10s to this day are used to transport cargo rather than people.
We are also trending towards the sun imploding. Some things aren’t worth worrying about
Across all manufacturers, models and year of manufacture. I’d be concerned about 737-Max specifically since they are demonstrably still undercooked despite repeated inspections. Past performance is no indication of future performance especially when there are demonstrated company and regulatory failures/capture.
Better with Airbus though 🇪🇺
The 737NG has a lower crash rate than the A320. If you want to let yourself be swayed by the low sample size of the 737 MAX, that's one thing, but to say Boeing on the whole is less safe is objectively untrue.
Crash rate isn't ultimately a useful measurement of safety let alone reliability, simply because so many incidents and hull losses have nothing to do with either. Like, the only loss of an a320neo was because a fire engine drove in front of it during takeoff.
The 737NG was produced before new leadership took over. There’s clearly a lot of attention to Boeing right now, but it seems to be very warranted, and any airplane produced the past 10 years at Boeing are produced in that environment.
Except reality and the numbers disagree with that statement.
Management has heard your safety concerns about the 737 max, please step into my office to discuss. Don't mind standing on the plastic I'm having some painting done.
You like Huey Lewis and the News?
Joke all you want. But numbers are numbers. Airbus incidents are not nearly as reported as Boeing ones. And Boeing can't really take heat for 20+ year-old aircraft. Ask Spirit and other airlines with Airbus fleets how their Airbus A320 series planes are doing. (Yes it is an engine problem, but Boeing uses the same engine just a variation for Boeing, and doesn't have the same issues).
If i recall, its Boeing's newer models that have been having issues, not the older models. The older models would have been built with higher standards. Boeings standards have been declining for the past 20 years, with their planes gradually becoming lower and lower quality. I think with one model, they wanted to cheapen the design process and just modified an older design, but that actually doesn't work out well in practice as it throws off a lot of the enginnering
The MAX does not use the pratt and whitney Geared TurboFan which is having problems on the a32xneo and the a22x. The a320neo series also offers the CFM leap engine as an option. The max only offers the CFM leap
Source?
When has reddit ever cared about that?
The murder of the whistleblower really did it for me, can’t even make informed judgements. They’re clearly in bury the issues mode.
It is irrational. The odds are so low that it doesn’t make sense to worry about it.
Just flew on a 737 Max from midway to tampa. I was worried a bit because of the news getting to me but then I thought like “would a pilot really keep flying this thing if he thought he was gonna die” and then I had some high noons and stopped caring
This. If there was something to worry about the pilots would refuse to fly. That said - there are some grumblings.
> That said - there are some grumblings. Care to elaborate?
> then I thought like “would a pilot really keep flying this thing if he thought he was gonna die” A pilot would [pay out of their own pocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_to_fly) for the privilege of shuttling your sorry ass around. All but the top in that industry are exploited because it is a "dream career", like video game developers were for a long time.
The pilots flying that thing make their money with flying that thing. Flying any other boeing or an airbus requires retraining, so it's not as easy for them, compared to a passenger avoiding boeing flights
If the pilots union refused to fly an unsafe aircraft they would be able to and no one could stop them
Really those crashed because the airlines were poorly regulated and the pilots weren't trained. The problem is you really shouldn't need to have specific training to get around design issues caused by trying to get around regulations.
Also think of it this way, around 5000 737s fly and land every day, that’s over a million and a half every year
Thank you. The MAX is a great plane, and it flies wonderfully, and I put my own family on them all the time with no hesitiations. Now if they could only do something about the engine start times... MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING MOTORING. "Hey how long until you're ready to taxi?" "It's a MAX." "Oh ok, about 6 minutes longer than an older one then."
idk the max has both it's engines fired up by the time I finished pushback
So, f Boeing, but planes are unbelievably safe.
Statistically yes. Boeing is try it hardest though.
Statistically planes are the safest form of travel, at least in the U.S. deaths have been near zero every year since 2002
Just like I said.
True. But what are the stats on survival rates when it DOES crash, say vs other forms of transportation that crash (cars, trains, boats, etc)? I know the chances of crashing are super low...but if it does happen...
FWIW I fucking hate flying, but it’s something like 90%+ crashes still don’t end in death
Fuck Boeing, but you’re still safer flying (even on a Boeing plane) than driving.
Yeah the people I know who say this don’t really travel much anyway. The virtue signaling sounds nice but I’m not holding my breath to see an actual dip in bookings on certain aircrafts.
I'd be hugely surprised if people switched from Southwest to Spirit or Frontier over this.
John Oliver approved list.
Why is this even on this sub?
Bots
Because it is so absurd that the name that used to stand for quality above anything else and led to the stellar reputation of the airline industry has taken over the joke that McDonell Douglas used to be known for (they made planes that did just what the 737max is doing now, failing), after having merged with McDonnell Douglas. It would have been an Onion article not so long ago.
I'm fully aware about the Boeing shit show, but I still think this post has nothing to do here.
Boeing managed to somehow make the 21st century DC-10.
welllllll, didn't Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas, and the resulting company kept the name from Boeing and the work ethics from McDonnell Douglas?
One had 55 fatal accidents and the other had 2.
I did I Boeing factor tour 10ish years ago. The tour guide told us make sure you say “if it’s not a Boeing, I’m not going.” Funny how the turn tables.
They are still saying that now, but they are saying it like late stage cult members.
Had to fly somewhere for work this week and reassured my nervous flyer wife that I’d be fine by showing her that none of my flights were on Boeing airplanes
if its not airbus, i make a fuss
It's Boever. They're not Boeing to make it after this
I’m no big fan of Boeing or air travel in general but a person who is so risk-averse to commercial air travel that they won’t fly Boeing because of several incidents out of hundreds of thousands of flights should for consistency’s sake never ever even consider getting in an automobile.
Long ago, my farmer uncle (360 sections near Hilda) said 'if you want to own a DC-10, buy a field near the end of a runway and just collect the parts as they fall off'. Old problems are new again. Just wait for the next Comet! Oh, right - 737 MAX. The difference being with the Comet they didn't know about the problem before they engineered it in.
The Boeing safety concerns are being blown slightly out of proportion. There really is only one problem child, the 737 Max. An airframe stretched far past its intended limits because airlines are too cheap to retrain pilots. That said, a complete forced reshuffling of the current board would vastly increase Boeing's long term health.
They literally killed a dude for exposing them. Even said to his family "If I kill myself, I didn't kill myself." Or something to that effect. Guy went years claiming they were cutting corners. Finally got his day to go on the record. Was meant to come back again the next day and was like "Nah. I think I'm done now." No. Boeing fucking killed that dude and they have been cutting corners on a heinous amount of things in their aircraft. Fuck Boeing.
So did everyone forget about that witness who died in crazy suspicious circumstances? Did I miss a chapter that closed that story?
I want to start to become a pilot next year. I don't want to fly Boeing.
And reasonably so. Hopefully this is putting pressure on the airlines to triple check Boeing's work
Probably showing my ignorance But aren’t all planes with at least all US based airlines Boeing?
No, US airlines are not required to buy Boeing.
no, United, Southwest, Alaska, And American are the largest Boeing operators. Airlines don't like having two manufacturers to buy maintenance parts for.
#"while others pointed out that air travel is still safer than flying" What???
I planned my trip to Mex definitely cause of all the boeing stuff
I have avoided booking flights if it's a boeing plane. Sorry to say, bit they bought this on themselves.
Fuck can ya blame them... Even i cancelled my flight to Russia. Prefer flying out the window instead
Worked with a guy who was a mechanic with a well known budget airline in the UK, he quit after a few weeks after being frequently asked to sign for having carried out maintenance tasks that hadn't been done to turn planes around faster and being ordered to ignore certain faults so that they would be recorded and fixed in countries where labour is cheaper. He refuses to travel with that airline (not naming names but it starts with a man's name) although insists that his friends at other airlines did not experience the same. This was also a decade ago so no idea if things have improved. Needless to say he was not surprised to hear the news about Boeing
Obviously it's John Air
How would an airlines safety standards he mentioned have anything to do with the news about Boeing, they are completely separate things. If an airline refuses manufacturer required maintenance that is not on the manufacturer lmao
I changed my flight just to avoid flying in one. Death wish not what I'm hoping for my next destination.
Don’t think the average person realizes how many flights occur on a given day.
As they should be - terrible article title implying people are crazy after Boeing’s repeated failure became public
When even an employee wont fly in the piece of shit you know you are right to be scared . i will cut this short they seem to be using the workbook of Putin and make people suicide themself with 3 bullets in the head.
I fly to Chicago in May. Please don't let me die.
Who can blame them frankly. Not to mention with the sudden "suicide" of a whistleblower and the constant issues with the MAX I wouldn't want to fly on one either.
Has anyone died from one of these Boeing incidents? It seems weird to be worried about that and not that 10,000 Americans have died in car crashes since the Boeing doors first made the news
Were you living under a rock when 346 people died when a pair of 737 MAX planes crashed a few years back?
Not since they were initially grounded as a result of two crashes in 2018 and 2019. The door plug blowout is obviously scary, but no one died or was injured.
People can always see the plane for the ticket being bought. They never change the plane for the route it runs based on the flight number.
Taking a flight tomorrow, I’ll try to get a good POV if things go to shit👍
Someone get Lockheed back into the game! Boeing is going the way of McDonnell Douglas!
If it's not Boeing I'm not going...to be sucked out of a window.
Im reading this as I’m sitting in a Boeing 737 MAX 8 from American Airlines and a maintenance staff member is gluing the lights on the ceiling with superglue
Beat up old jet liner… hope you got a tune up today
Like 2-3 planes out of thousand and thousands and thousands of planes. Yeah, that’s statistically significant
My flight back from Seattle is on a 737 and let's just say I'm buying extra edibles this trip
> 737 first one flight ~56 years ago, more than 10000 of them delivered, I think you'll be ok ...
Is be nervous of working at Boeing too, they might assainate me.
Well, that would be me
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yeah even first class these days sucks dick. show up 2 hours early, get groped by TSA (best part of the experience tbh), go get on a big tube with a bunch of sick people hacking up a lung and at least 7 babies crying nonstop, wait 30 minutes to taxi, finally take off, have a free ginger ale and peanuts, try to watch a movie while your ears pop, start to pray your rental car isn't a piece of shit.... ever since I discovered how beautiful the Michigan beaches are, and how they're 80% as nice as ocean beaches but I can drive there in 5 hours, I have not wanted to fly to a beach nearly as much
Anyone else follow Well There's Your Problem? >You are Boeing to Die
If they only knew about the dc-9 problems of the past.....
>while others pointed out that ***air travel is still safer than flying.***
>Some... >on social media platforms like TikTok I'm of the opinion that you could make a story about pretty much any fucking dumb stupid thing you could think of if the only criteria was that "some" people had that thought.
It’s not lost on me that that’s the exact opposite sentiment displayed by Boeing engineers employed from the pre-McDonnell Douglas merger era.
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“tHiS iSN’t oNiONy EnoUgH!” a commenter wrote on a post with several thousand upvotes. “My contrarianism is the voice of reason and will surely be recognised as such,” he said to himself as he hit *Reply*
First read the title as " if it's Boeing, I'm not gay.'"
My friend and I text each other goodbyes when we board Boeing planes now. I also ask him to let me know if the plane starts going down so I can short NYSE:BA while he crashes into the ocean.
Should say on the side of the plane “didn’t throw whistleblower out the open door!”
Isn't it not just Boeing but the airline companies failing to perform basic maintenance on their planes?
I've got an overseas Boeing flight coming up in September, but it's on a plane that's about 20 years old. So that seems old, but it's actually a little reassuring because we're thinking maybe the planes had better quality control 20 years ago.
Bruh the craziest part is the whistleblower literally became the meme of "if I kill myself it's not suicide". HE TOLD HIS FAMILY THAT
Flew on a Max8 a few days ago (Southwest). I had stayed on the aircraft at the layover as I was booked to continue to the next destination, and took that opportunity to snag an exit row aisle seat. More than half the plane boarded and skipped right on by the exit row seats. I started to wonder if they’d made some announcement out at the gate until a few folks finally opted for the extra leg room. Weird. Flight was just fine unless I’m posting this from an M. Night Shyamalan flick
It’s an overreaction, but yes there needs to be some additional pressure to ensure safety. Airline travel is still the absolute safest option
I’m flying Boeing Thursday and shitting myself at the thought of
Add united airlines
Airline companies have this waiver “a voluntary relinquishment of a known right and is executed prior to the activity. Basically, a participant surrenders their negligence-based personal injury claim against a business or company. This means the participant agrees to "hold harmless" the organization if they are injured”. They don’t have to pay, they will probably choose to in order to keep up their reputation