I don’t care what nation someone represents, if someone cheated then they shouldn’t compete. I guess it just depends if someone can prove an athlete deliberately cheated or somehow it was an accident (which I would tend to lean towards the former as the default).
That is how it works for the most part. The anti-doping agency issues a ban on any positive test. The athlete can then try to fight it by proving it was contamination. Notably, the athlete is still responsible if the contamination is from supplements, but not if it’s from food or prescription medication. Typically, the athlete only overturns the ban if they are able to prove the source of the contamination (via lab testing).
My comment was really concerning everyone saying “let’s see how the Americans respond to this since the athlete isn’t Russian or Chinese”. I think most of us don’t care about the offender’s nationality when it comes to cheating.
> I think most of us don’t care about the offender’s nationality when it comes to cheating.
Really? I doubt how the media reports on it the same way when it comes to Russia than America. The language used, the style of writing, etc., is more negative when it comes to Russia.
When I say “most of us don’t care”, I’m talking about normal people, not the media.
Also, cheating in Russia was sponsored by the government vs cheating in other countries which is often just the athlete doing it on their own. So one story is just objectively bigger than the another (not that cheating under either circumstance is any less bad)
> When I say “most of us don’t care”, I’m talking about normal people, not the media.
Normal people get their information from the media. If the media is biased, that is going to affect how normal people think about it. For example, the international agency that does drug testing even criticized the New York Times for their coverage when it comes to athletes from China.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/news/wada-responds-questions-received-new-york-times-related-clenbuterol-cases-involving-chinese
> Also, cheating in Russia was sponsored by the government vs cheating in other countries which is often just the athlete doing it on their own.
For all we know, the Russian athletes are doing it on their own.
I think the Russian state sponsored doping is pretty well documented.
And again, I suspect if you ask most people if someone who was caught doping should be allowed to compete, I’d wager a guess that they’d say no regardless of where the person is from. But that’s just based on anecdotal evidence that people are tired of cheaters in general.
> I think the Russian state sponsored doping is pretty well documented.
The problem is that the media tends to downplay American doping , pushing the responsibility to individual athletes instead of US organizations.
For example, hundreds of US athletes were caught doping but most were covered up. The truth only came out because of a lawsuit.
https://www.espn.com/oly/columns/misc/1543629.html
You have to look really hard to find accusations against US organizations. But when it comes to Russia, it is easy to find media reports.
I‘m an (amateur level) figure skater and the Grandpa Water is still THE running gag in our sport💀
On a serious note though, it’s ridiculous how her coaching staff got away with it without any consequences. Russian mentality about doping couldn’t be more different from us, they just consider it normal.
I still remember when a German XC-skier failed a drug test, she instantly lost sponsors AND fans in her own country.
Kamila on the other hand got turned into some kind of a heroic martyr against the evil west trying to ban their wonder child.
Have they ever tried testing random people to see if everyone has these performance enhancing drugs from eating normal foods as these elite athletes seem to do everytime they have normal food!
That doesn't sound like simping for it, to me it reads like the poster is simply stating that American athletes, like Chinese, Russian, and wherever else are also doping.
Yeah, but I support America in competition against China and Russia. I'll always be more critical of the enemy dictatorship countries trying to take mine down. People may not like it, but I'm open and honest about it.
Those are state-sponsored doping schemes involving multiple athletes and raising serious questions about the integrity of the third-party organizations responsible for oversight.
There’s a massive difference between a single athlete testing positive and claiming contamination and two dozen Chinese swimmers all testing positive and all claiming they all ate contaminated meat. Also, as I recall, the Chinese swimmers proceeded to the Olympics without their prior positives ever having been publicly disclosed, which at the very least is not the case here. Two of those athletes are still holding a gold medal in a relay, and that was never even properly investigated.
We should all be highly skeptical of any athlete who claims accidental contamination after a positive test. The disclosure and scrutiny in this case are appropriate, and even if he is permitted to compete for now, hopefully WADA etc will fully investigate before he’s allowed to participate in the Olympics.
The difference is in this case they found the contaminated meat, tested it, and confirmed it had the banned substance in it.
The other big difference is this is one person, the big recent ones involved multiple people.
Only 5 comments speaks for itself. Just keep on scrolling 🙈🙈
Doping is a RUSSIAN AND CHINESE thing. Ignore Lance armstrong dont bring up Marion Jones.
Hey the 2008 chinese gymnastics team should have their medals revoked!
Russian and Belarus should be banned until they stop the war in ukraine. China should be banned because something something Uyghurs.
Actually its very complicated and we shouldn't ban Israel from this years olympics.
This subreddit is so nakedly partisan its a fucking joke.
There's a difference between individuals doping and state-sponsored doping. When you have one person who fails a test, that's one thing. Multiple athletes in the same discipline from the same country testing positive is a whole other ballgame. Also Russia is by far the biggest culprit in doping. No other nation has had as many Olympic medals stripped as Russia has. It's not even close. We had track athletes who just recently got their medals after they were stripped from Russians from the 2012 Olympics. And who knows when the figure skaters from 2022 Beijing will get their medals?
Are you seriously going to argue that China didn't lie about their gymnasts' ages in the 2008 Olympics?
I agree about the politics. Leave them out of the Olympics. Russia should be banned because of state-sponsored doping, not because of politics.
Eh, keep politics in the Olympics. They've always been political. All that "world coming together" and "sportsmanship" crap only lasts to the end of the opening ceremony. Especially when countries like China are paying foreign citizens to their team and bending their own citizenship laws to make American-born athletes eligible.
With the times he's posted it was always on the cards. Quite like the Chinese Swimmers and ROC we all know what the most likely scenario is for how this got in his system. But that would be bad for the olympics
Michael Johnson must be the only elite US Sprinter of recent decades that was never marred by drugs.
I don't count the active ones because time will eventually get to them.
Anytime I consume tainted beef, I get sicker than a dog. He consumes it and it happens to be tainted by a drug that just so happens to be beneficial to his training regimen! We should all be so lucky!
Everyone hates math, but the math doesn't add up here for Knighton. It's STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for meat to do this. If math makes your head hurt, go to the last paragraph.
Trenbolone Residue Levels:
Regulatory MRLs for Trenbolone in meat generally range in parts per billion (ppb). For example, an MRL might be set at 10 ppb (10 ng/g of meat).
Quantity Consumed:
The amount of meat a person would need to consume to reach detectable levels depends on the Trenbolone residue in the meat and the efficiency of absorption and metabolism in the human body.
Calculation (Hypothetical):
If an athlete consumes 500 grams (17 ounces) of ox tail with Trenbolone residue at 10 ppb, the total Trenbolone ingested would be:
500 grams × 10 ng/g = 5000 ng
500 grams×10 ng/g=5000 ng
Assuming a 10% absorption rate (which can vary), the absorbed Trenbolone would be:
5000 ng × 0.1 = 500 ng
5000 ng×0.1= 500 ng
This absorbed amount would then be distributed in the body and eventually excreted in urine.
Urinary Concentration:
If 500 ng of Trenbolone is absorbed and evenly distributed over a day with an average urine output of 1.5 liters:
500 ng/1500 mL = 0.33 ng/mL
Average or reasonable consumption of ox tail BELOW the typical detection threshold. To reach 2 ng/mL in urine, KNIGHTON WOULD HAVE HAD TO EAT 102 OUNCES OF OX TAIL, provided the people raising the animals obeyed the law. Without giving you another long math equation, under normal circumstances, the statistical odds of testing positive for Trenbolone from eating ox tail with residue levels at or below the regulatory limit are extremely low, approaching zero. It's statistically impossible.
Tygart is essentially giving WADA the middle finger because of their findings on China.
I don’t care what nation someone represents, if someone cheated then they shouldn’t compete. I guess it just depends if someone can prove an athlete deliberately cheated or somehow it was an accident (which I would tend to lean towards the former as the default).
That is how it works for the most part. The anti-doping agency issues a ban on any positive test. The athlete can then try to fight it by proving it was contamination. Notably, the athlete is still responsible if the contamination is from supplements, but not if it’s from food or prescription medication. Typically, the athlete only overturns the ban if they are able to prove the source of the contamination (via lab testing).
My comment was really concerning everyone saying “let’s see how the Americans respond to this since the athlete isn’t Russian or Chinese”. I think most of us don’t care about the offender’s nationality when it comes to cheating.
> I think most of us don’t care about the offender’s nationality when it comes to cheating. Really? I doubt how the media reports on it the same way when it comes to Russia than America. The language used, the style of writing, etc., is more negative when it comes to Russia.
When I say “most of us don’t care”, I’m talking about normal people, not the media. Also, cheating in Russia was sponsored by the government vs cheating in other countries which is often just the athlete doing it on their own. So one story is just objectively bigger than the another (not that cheating under either circumstance is any less bad)
> When I say “most of us don’t care”, I’m talking about normal people, not the media. Normal people get their information from the media. If the media is biased, that is going to affect how normal people think about it. For example, the international agency that does drug testing even criticized the New York Times for their coverage when it comes to athletes from China. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/news/wada-responds-questions-received-new-york-times-related-clenbuterol-cases-involving-chinese > Also, cheating in Russia was sponsored by the government vs cheating in other countries which is often just the athlete doing it on their own. For all we know, the Russian athletes are doing it on their own.
I think the Russian state sponsored doping is pretty well documented. And again, I suspect if you ask most people if someone who was caught doping should be allowed to compete, I’d wager a guess that they’d say no regardless of where the person is from. But that’s just based on anecdotal evidence that people are tired of cheaters in general.
> I think the Russian state sponsored doping is pretty well documented. The problem is that the media tends to downplay American doping , pushing the responsibility to individual athletes instead of US organizations. For example, hundreds of US athletes were caught doping but most were covered up. The truth only came out because of a lawsuit. https://www.espn.com/oly/columns/misc/1543629.html You have to look really hard to find accusations against US organizations. But when it comes to Russia, it is easy to find media reports.
“ate some contaminated meat” - always the same excuse If you ever get caught and it’s not overturned (like here): banned for life.
It's a slightly better excuse than taking grandpa's heart medicine.
I‘m an (amateur level) figure skater and the Grandpa Water is still THE running gag in our sport💀 On a serious note though, it’s ridiculous how her coaching staff got away with it without any consequences. Russian mentality about doping couldn’t be more different from us, they just consider it normal. I still remember when a German XC-skier failed a drug test, she instantly lost sponsors AND fans in her own country. Kamila on the other hand got turned into some kind of a heroic martyr against the evil west trying to ban their wonder child.
Have they ever tried testing random people to see if everyone has these performance enhancing drugs from eating normal foods as these elite athletes seem to do everytime they have normal food!
[удалено]
How they decide these things is complicated to me.
Let's see what comments for this thread will look like compared to the Chinese one.
That’s why I posted it. We’re always so quick to post anything about the Chinese and Russians.
Exactly. Its a problem in ALL sports. Anybody whos deluded to think team USA isnt also doping it is just beyond stupid
I am not really sure why you are simping for state sponsored doping by hostile foreign powers while living in Indiana.
That doesn't sound like simping for it, to me it reads like the poster is simply stating that American athletes, like Chinese, Russian, and wherever else are also doping.
Yeah, but I support America in competition against China and Russia. I'll always be more critical of the enemy dictatorship countries trying to take mine down. People may not like it, but I'm open and honest about it.
Those are state-sponsored doping schemes involving multiple athletes and raising serious questions about the integrity of the third-party organizations responsible for oversight. There’s a massive difference between a single athlete testing positive and claiming contamination and two dozen Chinese swimmers all testing positive and all claiming they all ate contaminated meat. Also, as I recall, the Chinese swimmers proceeded to the Olympics without their prior positives ever having been publicly disclosed, which at the very least is not the case here. Two of those athletes are still holding a gold medal in a relay, and that was never even properly investigated. We should all be highly skeptical of any athlete who claims accidental contamination after a positive test. The disclosure and scrutiny in this case are appropriate, and even if he is permitted to compete for now, hopefully WADA etc will fully investigate before he’s allowed to participate in the Olympics.
The difference is in this case they found the contaminated meat, tested it, and confirmed it had the banned substance in it. The other big difference is this is one person, the big recent ones involved multiple people.
Only 5 comments speaks for itself. Just keep on scrolling 🙈🙈 Doping is a RUSSIAN AND CHINESE thing. Ignore Lance armstrong dont bring up Marion Jones. Hey the 2008 chinese gymnastics team should have their medals revoked! Russian and Belarus should be banned until they stop the war in ukraine. China should be banned because something something Uyghurs. Actually its very complicated and we shouldn't ban Israel from this years olympics. This subreddit is so nakedly partisan its a fucking joke.
Lance Armstrong? That’s one of the most famous cases of doping in sports history. No one ignored that.
Nor was he helped by an authoritarian US government.
There's a difference between individuals doping and state-sponsored doping. When you have one person who fails a test, that's one thing. Multiple athletes in the same discipline from the same country testing positive is a whole other ballgame. Also Russia is by far the biggest culprit in doping. No other nation has had as many Olympic medals stripped as Russia has. It's not even close. We had track athletes who just recently got their medals after they were stripped from Russians from the 2012 Olympics. And who knows when the figure skaters from 2022 Beijing will get their medals? Are you seriously going to argue that China didn't lie about their gymnasts' ages in the 2008 Olympics? I agree about the politics. Leave them out of the Olympics. Russia should be banned because of state-sponsored doping, not because of politics.
Eh, keep politics in the Olympics. They've always been political. All that "world coming together" and "sportsmanship" crap only lasts to the end of the opening ceremony. Especially when countries like China are paying foreign citizens to their team and bending their own citizenship laws to make American-born athletes eligible.
And unlike some countries. USADA catches and punishes people if you are in the USADA pool.
Anyone downvoting you is wildly misinformed.
Wouldn't compare Israel to what's happening with Russia. China is a separate issue. Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked and started a war.
With the times he's posted it was always on the cards. Quite like the Chinese Swimmers and ROC we all know what the most likely scenario is for how this got in his system. But that would be bad for the olympics
Michael Johnson must be the only elite US Sprinter of recent decades that was never marred by drugs. I don't count the active ones because time will eventually get to them.
Anytime I consume tainted beef, I get sicker than a dog. He consumes it and it happens to be tainted by a drug that just so happens to be beneficial to his training regimen! We should all be so lucky!
Everyone hates math, but the math doesn't add up here for Knighton. It's STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for meat to do this. If math makes your head hurt, go to the last paragraph. Trenbolone Residue Levels: Regulatory MRLs for Trenbolone in meat generally range in parts per billion (ppb). For example, an MRL might be set at 10 ppb (10 ng/g of meat). Quantity Consumed: The amount of meat a person would need to consume to reach detectable levels depends on the Trenbolone residue in the meat and the efficiency of absorption and metabolism in the human body. Calculation (Hypothetical): If an athlete consumes 500 grams (17 ounces) of ox tail with Trenbolone residue at 10 ppb, the total Trenbolone ingested would be: 500 grams × 10 ng/g = 5000 ng 500 grams×10 ng/g=5000 ng Assuming a 10% absorption rate (which can vary), the absorbed Trenbolone would be: 5000 ng × 0.1 = 500 ng 5000 ng×0.1= 500 ng This absorbed amount would then be distributed in the body and eventually excreted in urine. Urinary Concentration: If 500 ng of Trenbolone is absorbed and evenly distributed over a day with an average urine output of 1.5 liters: 500 ng/1500 mL = 0.33 ng/mL Average or reasonable consumption of ox tail BELOW the typical detection threshold. To reach 2 ng/mL in urine, KNIGHTON WOULD HAVE HAD TO EAT 102 OUNCES OF OX TAIL, provided the people raising the animals obeyed the law. Without giving you another long math equation, under normal circumstances, the statistical odds of testing positive for Trenbolone from eating ox tail with residue levels at or below the regulatory limit are extremely low, approaching zero. It's statistically impossible. Tygart is essentially giving WADA the middle finger because of their findings on China.
Boo.