You can see the updates in UA 6, they’re likely to be nearly unchanged. That updates lets mage hand be moved with a bonus action.
It’s not clear what the update to spell thief is, treant said it was strictly better but not a huge boost. If it’s following the UA then the upgrade is that it can be any spell you can cast, not just a wizard spells, which seems likely.
Edit: see [here](https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/ua/ph-playtest6/OJVW7QLuHjEFCCVs/UA-2023-PH-Playtest6.pdf) for the UA link
Sorry, you're wrong. ATs could always move it with a bonus action. See below.
From the spell
>You can use your action to control the hand. You can use the hand to manipulate an object, open an unlocked door or container, stow or retrieve an item from an open container, or pour the contents out of a vial. You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it.
From Mage Hand Legerdemain
>In addition, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to control the hand.
Edit
Also you're wrong about Spell Thief too. You could always cast outside the wizard scool.
From PHB from Spell Thief.
>On a failed save, you negate the spell’s effect against you, and you steal the knowledge of the spell if it is at least 1st level and of a level you can cast (it doesn’t need to be a wizard spell).
Ah, right.
I’m pretty sure in your first link he’s referring to the double trip ability, since that clip happens before they reveal that aspect. Maybe there’s further refinements to it, we’ll see.
I hope spell thief just get a bit better numerically, making the other caster make a save with their spellcasting ability against your spell save DC, which isn't that high probably, makes it very difficult to make it work
I hope it gets easier to land, or at least get more uses or something like "if a creature passes the save, it'a immune for the next 24 hours" but until you land it you can try again with different casters
Sorry I didn't read your comment clearly. I would LOVE if we could use it once per caster per long rest. That would be so fun.
I always thought stealing spell slots would be really fun idea too.
If you have the spell slots to cast a spell, you should be able to "steal" it automatically by observing it. There should only be a chance of failure if you try to cast a stolen spell of 5th level or higher, imo.
An important thing to keep in mind: Treantmonk by his own admission has a sliiiightly out of date copy of the new PHB. It's possible that the changes he's alluding to have been cut in the print version.
ngl pardon my ignorance, but idk who treantmonk is.
by the way he is talking im guessing he got a prevew of all changes? or works with WotC.
either way by the way he is talking it seems to imply, to me, that they can now cast mage hand as a bonus action, which is big.
EDIT: i seen he got a copy of it lol
Yeah, he has a copy of the 2024 book but signed an nda
>they can now cast mage hand as a bonus action, which is big
I know, right! I hope you're right. I'm very excited.
He has the book in pdf form but he signed an nda. He's a very analytical dnd rules YouTuber. Good guides, builds and rules disections. Very detail oriented.
He’s worth checking out. I know some see the content as a bit “dry” because he’s not as flashy as some other YouTubers, but I don’t see it that way at all.
He’s the ‘inventor’ of the OG god wizard build. I love his builds. Rather than joke-y or damage obsessed, they’re focused on exploiting certain rules or class interactions that make for really fun and powerful builds.
Also worth noting that dnd YouTubers with much larger followings still pay tribute to Treantmonk, which I think speaks to the quality of his content and the depth of knowledge he possesses.
just to add to what other people have said, he's knows dnd very well and is quite rigorous in his analysis of the game system, so in other words he's a trustworthy source.
From what I understand Treantmonk has been a minmax optimizer since 3.5 edition. When I was getting into 4e he had written some guides too. I think he may have even been the originator of the D&D color scheme where abilities are ranked in different color text. He's an OG.
You can see the updates in UA 6, they’re likely to be nearly unchanged. That updates lets mage hand be moved with a bonus action. It’s not clear what the update to spell thief is, treant said it was strictly better but not a huge boost. If it’s following the UA then the upgrade is that it can be any spell you can cast, not just a wizard spells, which seems likely. Edit: see [here](https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/ua/ph-playtest6/OJVW7QLuHjEFCCVs/UA-2023-PH-Playtest6.pdf) for the UA link
Sorry, you're wrong. ATs could always move it with a bonus action. See below. From the spell >You can use your action to control the hand. You can use the hand to manipulate an object, open an unlocked door or container, stow or retrieve an item from an open container, or pour the contents out of a vial. You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it. From Mage Hand Legerdemain >In addition, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to control the hand. Edit Also you're wrong about Spell Thief too. You could always cast outside the wizard scool. From PHB from Spell Thief. >On a failed save, you negate the spell’s effect against you, and you steal the knowledge of the spell if it is at least 1st level and of a level you can cast (it doesn’t need to be a wizard spell).
Ah, right. I’m pretty sure in your first link he’s referring to the double trip ability, since that clip happens before they reveal that aspect. Maybe there’s further refinements to it, we’ll see.
I hope spell thief just get a bit better numerically, making the other caster make a save with their spellcasting ability against your spell save DC, which isn't that high probably, makes it very difficult to make it work
Agreed, this is late game stuff with a limited use. It feels lame to just fail your ultimate move.
I hope it gets easier to land, or at least get more uses or something like "if a creature passes the save, it'a immune for the next 24 hours" but until you land it you can try again with different casters
It's actually only 8 hours, not 24, and you can only use it once per long rest.
I know, that's why I hoped something changes
Sorry I didn't read your comment clearly. I would LOVE if we could use it once per caster per long rest. That would be so fun. I always thought stealing spell slots would be really fun idea too.
If you have the spell slots to cast a spell, you should be able to "steal" it automatically by observing it. There should only be a chance of failure if you try to cast a stolen spell of 5th level or higher, imo.
I'm hoping it's silently casting mage hand
Yeah, the Verbal component + 1-minute duration makes it ridiculously hard to actually use for any Rogue-ish activities.
An important thing to keep in mind: Treantmonk by his own admission has a sliiiightly out of date copy of the new PHB. It's possible that the changes he's alluding to have been cut in the print version.
That is a good point.
Where did he say this?
I think in his video on the Paladin or the Fighter, I’m not sure which
ngl pardon my ignorance, but idk who treantmonk is. by the way he is talking im guessing he got a prevew of all changes? or works with WotC. either way by the way he is talking it seems to imply, to me, that they can now cast mage hand as a bonus action, which is big. EDIT: i seen he got a copy of it lol
Yeah, he has a copy of the 2024 book but signed an nda >they can now cast mage hand as a bonus action, which is big I know, right! I hope you're right. I'm very excited.
He has the book in pdf form but he signed an nda. He's a very analytical dnd rules YouTuber. Good guides, builds and rules disections. Very detail oriented.
He’s worth checking out. I know some see the content as a bit “dry” because he’s not as flashy as some other YouTubers, but I don’t see it that way at all. He’s the ‘inventor’ of the OG god wizard build. I love his builds. Rather than joke-y or damage obsessed, they’re focused on exploiting certain rules or class interactions that make for really fun and powerful builds. Also worth noting that dnd YouTubers with much larger followings still pay tribute to Treantmonk, which I think speaks to the quality of his content and the depth of knowledge he possesses.
just to add to what other people have said, he's knows dnd very well and is quite rigorous in his analysis of the game system, so in other words he's a trustworthy source.
From what I understand Treantmonk has been a minmax optimizer since 3.5 edition. When I was getting into 4e he had written some guides too. I think he may have even been the originator of the D&D color scheme where abilities are ranked in different color text. He's an OG.