When you fly halfway across the world and pay $25k+ in tuition to learn to chop vegetables, you're either getting people who aren't actually students, or are bottom of the barrel for actually learning.
I'm not kidding, obligatory Conestoga ad from this year
https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/s/gn8LbIbRxg
The elites have taken this country hostage in a way we never previously thought imaginable. The elites must be taking notes from each other too because it's happening across all western countries at the same time.
I think that’s more a reflection of the kinds of people certain programs attract than it is a reflection of international students. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to start a restaurant.
That being said. Last winter at my college an entire class of 100% international students was caught using ChatGPT to write their research papers. iirc only a few were expelled, but most received multiple warnings and still graduated. We only found out because one of the math teachers forgot how to use the projector and accidentally showed us an email instead of the lesson slides
Courses they are enrolled in are designed for international students, they also know they are not going to find good employment once they graduate, I met one India educated doctor recently, was working in India but now here on study course for 2 years, he said it himself he knows the course he has taken is useless but was the only one with a 3yr work permit, meaning he can stay in Canada for 5 years and he will most likely be a resident by then.
Why can't government close this loop hole that if you don't find employment in your chosen field of study, you leave country at the end of your work permit, no renewals.
Course fee is the cost of entry into Canada and then they establish themselves one way or the other.
Because we wouldn’t hire highly educated immigrants if they had degrees from far away lands from unis we didn’t recognize. International students back then on the other hand did just fine. They took that and ran with it, not controlling for the fact the provinces would drop the education and quality standards here so much that it offset the smooth transition well selected international students used to have. The blame lies 100% with the provinces not maintaining standards.
It’s a myth that becoming an international student is a one way ticket to PR; it’s not. These low quality students are not going to ever become PRs for exactly the same reasons you have a problem with these new students: poor language skills, useless degrees, no relevant jobs eligible for consideration for PR.
I'll bet its like pulling teeth to get them to speak even a tiny amount of English.Most of the students from India would just sit down on our afternoon shifts and refuse to work.I got written up for politely showing this guy how scan product into specific locations,correctly.He had previously just chucked expensive car parts anywhere.
Which.. is becoming the Canadian model for businesses
Make 1 full time job with pension and benefits now part time job with no pension and no benefits!
I try to give instructions and I get a rude response saying they know how to. Then 5 minutes later I go back to chaos because they actually do not know how to..... why... needing to be shown how to do something isn't bad. Just take the guidance.
Is that culture or is that just morons? I work with nurses and train new grads like that. The ones who say they know and just ignore me do the worst and make the most med errors. If you don’t know, or maybe you do know, show me that you know it first and I’ll let you be. But until then I’m on them like a hawk until I feel comfortable - but I let them do the actual work and o observe.
I'm a medical lab technician and frequently have to ca nurses to tell them they have to recollect something because they did it wrong. The majority will immediately act defensive, demonstrate they don't care at all, or act like it's not their job lmao.
The thing is that the collection instructions are available on our chart system (EPIC), and if they don't see it they can always call us and ask. But rather than admitting they don't know something, they'd rather..... Make a mistake and have to redo it.
I don't know if there's just a sense of entitlement because nursing seems like such a sacrificial profession?
Factory work?
CNC Machinist here. We flat out refuse to hire from Conestoga without first putting them through the paces.
I've actually had to show a "1st year apprentice" how to put a cordless drill into reverse.
He was using it as a manual screw driver cause he couldn't figure out to push one of the 2 buttons.
You guys have to remember this one fact and I don't mean give them a free pass, I don't say you should be giving them money. But they come from a place that isn't so great that makes them go to the extremes you are seeing to come here. With hope trying every goddamn dirty trick in the book to find a life that's better.
I know sure as fuck if I had a family let alone the last post I seen that came out of the middle east of what happened to a 17yr old? I'd want to get my daughter out of there A FUCKING SAP and I would do ANYTHING. Not saying that's all of the people who come here, but that's definitely an aspect of a reason I've seen that would make me understand why anyone would go the 1000%
Refugees are a legal international obligation for us to take. A completely different scenario then immigration.
I want immigration on hold for students and low skilled work to stop all together, regardless of where they are from until we get the housing crises fixed. I want to make sure we can properly take care of the prior immigrants who are here, the refugees and the rest of us full citizens.
Two different situations entirely. You realize it costs like $3500 for a return ticket to India right? If they are so poor how do they come up with that money?
God, I went to college for a skills upgrade. Just took a few courses. Won’t say what college to avoid doxxing myself, but like 1/4 were international students who almost never showed up to class, when they did show up to class they just talked with their friends, didn’t take any notes, didn’t really understand even the most basic of English, etc.
This was my experience, too. And for group projects - either didn’t do their work or, if it was done, was plagiarized or written with ChatGPT. And trying to schedule group meetings was hell. They’d either not show or change things around to suit their schedule best and then flake or no show. The English skills were absolutely appalling.
This ?
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/an-international-student-posted-a-video-on-how-to-get-free-food-in-canada-what-came-next-was-an-angry-mob-and-death-threats
And this, unfortunately it’s not a new concept, that food banks (not university programs) are over run because of other videos for “free food”
(https://nationalpost.com/news/canada-food-bank-international-students)
lol 25k is the cheapest others are paying up towards triple to quadruple that for fucking PISS POOR education for that dollar it just blows my mind but I guess in comparison to what they are getting back home it makes it worth it and that just kills me in my soul right there. our system is truly full of fucking scum bags
People flying tens of thousands of kilometres from countries to learn “hospitality management” doesn’t strike me as being people interested in learning.
Wow... they actually named a campus after their current president? That's pretty bold of him.
I suspect there are many international students who are being taken advantage of by unlicensed recruiters and "consultants" overseas who likely fudge all kinds of application requirements like computer literacy and English language proficiency in order to get students placed and collect their cut. They don't care if the student fails out in their first semester.
There is a whole system of foreign exploitation that is beyond the control of the colleges and universities. And Conestoga has turned a blind eye to it for their own gain.
They’re high school graduates with 0 exposure to the outside real world. They just got scammed into a diploma mill degree, you really think “they know”?
At high school graduation, one has enough knowledge that if they are going to go halfway around the world, and have to save up a considerable amount in their local currency, that it would be common sense to at least look up the college and its rankings.
Saving up that chunk takes skill in terms of having to talk to the banks, investment officers and whatnot, not to mention researching and selecting a visa agency.
If they don't do that, either they are completely ignorant, or what is more likely is that they don't really care, and are simply wanting to get a foot inside Canada and then deal with whatever happens after while they wait for PR.
Indeed. As someone from that community, all I am saying is I kind of know what is happening. You really think they head back? Some might, but most don't.
It's all government's fault, they have given free rides to all parties in this mess while filling their coffers that they are going to foolishly spend.
Yes they’re merely processed by the federal government, which in turn defers to the provinces on how they want to run their province including their post secondary sector, since the provinces would know more about their local conditions and are the representatives of the people of that province.
I don’t feel bad for these students. I can’t. Maybe a few years ago, but not now. These students are knowingly/willingly scamming the system. They fake documents, get loans from family to show they have funds to study here and then send it all back and raid food banks, they cheat on their exams, and when they fail, demand to be passed. I’m so over it. No sympathy from me. I only feel bad for faculty that are pressured to fudge results so the students pass and Canadian citizens.
Yeah, that's what the last few years of all of this has really destroyed in me. I have no sympathy or empathy left for these people. It sucks but it's the honest truth.
People downvote me when I voice my opinion but same. Same. My friends and family are getting fed up. My best friend, who is liberal af, is even saying that immigration and the international student situation is getting wayyyy out of hand. She says many walk into her bfs workplace begging him for a job. They had to put a sign up saying they WERENT hiring (not that it helps).
This mismanagement of immigration and the international students is only going to continue breeding resentment. Far righters are already in full swing and those of us who were previously pro immigration and didnt mind things are now getting fed up. I’m not attempting to condone bad behaviour but you cant expect Canadians to just accept this lying down…
Yeah I can't help but have a bleak outlook on the future in terms of politics. I've always been a liberal but zero chance in that continuing. CPC? Oh fuck no, they will be just as bad if not worse. PPC? I like their stance on immigration, international students, and housing but a lot of their other views like LGBTQ rights, anti-vax, don't care about the environment is an issue for me. I have no one worth voting for! So now I just try to focus on the things that make me happy like concerts, festivals, and all that summer time stuff. Alcohol and rec drugs help too lol.
Aah, they are students. They have come here to learn ahem basic computing. /s
This tells you how great is our selection process. These colleges need to shut down. They are a drain on society. At least choose students who are going to contribute, are going to mix with the society.
There is a reason why students are "recruited" and not selected.
They do not come here to learn anything and the mindset is to come to Canada and start working on whatever job they get. Acquiring skills or any long term career are not on their agenda. Study permits are just a stepping stone for PR process, then some restaurant or gas station or trucking company will provide LMIA in return of money and PR process is done. Then the person with PR will marry someone back home in return of money, then the spouse gets the PR then their families. This is how the business works,Study permit/ visitor/ TFW visas are booming business in South Asia.
Its just transfer of wealth from one part pf the world to another. Everyone takes a share from this transfer.
Getting my food services department to fill out digital time sheets should be illegal as it violates the charter of rights and freedoms as cruel and unusual punishment.
Back in the 90s, I ran a computer store... There were some users we would warn other technicians about by writing "USER = ID-ten-D" in the config.sys file.
Like the lady who changed the background colour on Wordperfect to green, and the text colour to green (because green was her favorite colour) and called us in because all her documents disappeared ;)
I went to the public library to scan documents and email them to myself. Based on the staff responses and introduction to their systems, most people don’t have any skills whatsoever.
Was about to say, I know a lot of burnouts who were proud to be born in our home and native land. At least the immigrants are trainable and don't have an overinflated sense of their worth.
Computer skills aren't taught in mandatory public school. What else do you expect? It's like being upset that the general student doesn't have any electrician skills. Knowledge doesn't just magically appear, even if you use a computer/electricity every day, it has to be taught somehow.
Idk why we’re so quick to say “well some domestic students suck too,” the issue is that we’re not being selective in who we let in and we’re ending up with more morons.
I know a guy teaching in the firefighter training program, and the admin was pressuring him to pass students that didn't even show up. They were pretty adamant, but in the end, he still refused and managed to get away with failing them.
Can you imagine ending up with firefighters who don't know how to do their job? Passing inadequate marketing students is one thing, but hiring inept emergency workers is just plain dangerous.
Conestoga is ruining their reputation to the point that a diploma from there won't mean much.
Going to throw this out there... From what I've seen, so do a bunch of domestic students.
Anyway, on the core point of this post:
Colleges - and several provincial governments across the country (definitely including our idiot Premier) - are 100% to blame for this. Provinces have been cutting funding for education for a while now, and universities have been responding by accepting an increasingly larger share of international students. But in order to go from 15% (made up example to illustrate the point) to 40% international students across a ton of colleges and universities, standards for international student recruiting have to drop pretty much across the board. In short, you're now accepting people who are happy to put in the minimum work required to pass courses, meanwhile they're either rich enough to party it up or they're working as much as they can often at minimum wage jobs to pay their rent, tuition, and living expenses, and make their way to PR status.
Why? Because the government reduced your funding and, rather than address this problem by uniting and challenging the government to fix this through policy, colleges and universities are solving by saying "whatever, just bring in Raj and Jose who can barely type or multiply, but their dads own a chain of retail malls in India/Peru, so there's our $45k per year". Don't even get me started on the government. It's almost like if there's any proposal up for a vote, you can rely on the PCs to vote the way an over-the-top comic book villain like the Riddler would vote. Proposal to decriminalize shooting puppies in the face? Unanimous PC vote in favour. Coupled with a right-wing media blitz about how puppies are anti-Christian, and preventing someone from shooting a puppy interferes with their right to own guns. Anyway... Moving on.
Conestoga unions whining about their students not having pre-requisite skills to complete their (let's call them... Generously) diplomas is kinda like an NBA team signing up an entire starting line and bench of 4'7" tall 8th graders because the NBA kept the media money for itself, and then complaining that they've lost their first 37 games in a row.
I'm so tired of the 7 different groups of clowns that collectively face-planted for decades to bring the Ontario (and to a lesser extent, the Canadian) education system to where we are 😡
A similar article was posted yesterday.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10459197/conestoga-is-a-foreign-student-mecca-is-its-climb-to-riches-leading-it-off-a-cliff/amp/
Got a call at work today from someone at the Ontario Transport Ministry and honestly though it was a scam call because her english was so bad. Had to have her send an email but the writing was not much better. I bet politicians love having the heaps of low skill low pay employees from the diploma mills so they can give themselves raises.
At this point, Canada should start handing out 3 year work permits for $30,000 with an option to study while giving out cec points for studying irrespective of your choice. I guarantee you the college’s admissions will fall to near 0 fortnight. This whole thing is a SCAM. Idk why candians don’t speak up.
Agreed and this is one of the rare times that I think the government should be given more money. I’d rather the government get the money instead of the owner of a trucking company, Subway sandwich shop or Tim Hortons do an LMIA and sell citizenship and exploit a TFW.
I went to college in Ontario 10 years ago and first semester of basically all programs had math/english which were in place to make sure you had the basics to continue in any program. Has that changed?
Most of the local high school grads have shit writing and math skills. I've interviewed UofT Comp Sci grads who cant write a sentence without making grammar or spelling mistakes.
They don't even understand basic punctuation or how to write in full sentences or paragraphs. They literally do stream-of-consciousness brain dumps onto the page, without any cohesion to their thinking.
That's a response to how language(English anyway) is currently taught. Little to no focus on grammar/syntax/spelling and the feeling is that they can still be good communicators. In the end, in science classes, I have to often read, and re-read several times what students write because the lack of attention to the writing makes is difficult or impossible to understand.
I taught English to teenagers in the middle of no where Honduras. Their goal was going to an English speaking universities. Essay structure was a foreign concept to the students I had. They also didn’t want to listen to a gringo. I tired…
It's almost like it's a problem that you created for yourself by allowing the students entry and/or not providing a course which would teach them in order to get them up to a desired level
Um…the one’s with adequate skills found jobs back home and are prospering. The profile of immigrant we’re CURRENTLY attracting isn’t necessarily the type that has many prospects back home.
Everyone in my family is an immigrant. They came here, worked, paid taxes and integrated. None of them had fake MBAs from the 231st ranked college in India.
I think the problem we’re faced with is policy that attracts the wrong profile of immigrant, mixed with an enabling government, cultural differences and disjointed expectations.
I didn’t teach at contestoga but I taught at another Ontario college. I will absolutely not provide English lessons to anyone. It’s my expectation that if an assignment requires scholarly writing and I review what that means (ie APA, full sentences, no plagiarism), it’s the students job to figure it out. I’ll take questions and I’ve even tutored but that’s rare. More students don’t ask any questions and they hand in barely legible garbage. And then they complain when they fail. I’m there to teach a specific subject and I don’t have time to teach basic writing skills.
I recently interviewed a “full time student” for an entry level role. When I asked about availability they said “full availability, 40 hours a week”. I asked about school and apparently they have 2 classes a week that can be taken virtually and the rest of Their college schedule was “co-op” and they get credits for having a job.
It was all really strange. I remember not that long ago my student staff would have to switch or give up shifts so they didn’t go over their 20 hour limit or miss out on classes. Now it seems the schools don’t even have classes just camera-off sessions that you can attend while working.
Its wild
It's the same at SAIT in AB. I went to school with a slew of international kids that I honestly had no idea how they met admissions requirements.
We had a joke of a class called Into to computers and people failed, these kids couldn't even learn microsoft suite.
Just waiting for this post to be locked and/or deleted because apparently international students are a "protected class" on Reddit.
I can summarize this shitshow with the post another user shared
https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/s/kXtpOYhMMi
Easy to put an end to this. All international students MUST return to their country of origin upon completion of their degree. End the pathway to citizenship. You can come here for an education and then return home.
Some domestic students lack these skills. Actually a lot of them. Phones and chromebooks/coasters mean they don't know anything about how windows machines works. This is a huge problem for us in comp sci when students can't even find files on their own computer, don't know what file types are, all the basic stuff. Turns out you need to actually teach them. Also, chromebooks need to be purged from schools after about grade 6.
This isn't new. And we need to be careful here. Just because you grew up without a computer doesn't mean you can't learn. My father grew up without electricity and became an electrical engineer. In grad school he had one lecture on this new technology a prof thought might be important, that was the transistor. He spent his career making power generators including nuclear ones for Hitachi and General Electric. In CS and previously CS and engineering teaching I have had students who grew up without computers, and a couple who grew up without regular electricity. If they were here because they were smart and willing to work hard they could and did learn.
The way you address student deficiencies when they start is by, well, addressing them. If they don't know stuff, you have to teach them. That means figuring out what problems students have and creating content appropriate to that level of competence. Sometimes that's extra school time before they start 'regular' programmes to learn.
Dealing with students who don't want to learn is the problem. Whether that is because they view this as transactional, or they think cheating is doing the work, those ones are a nightmare.
I'm doing my Masters right now and there are a lot of group essays in the program so far. It's amazing how there are students that have difficulty with English as a second language, but come essay time, they are writing beautiful passages (but never with citations with their facts, and AI detectors mark their work as 100% AI generated or paraphrased from AI) and they just keep getting their marks back without issue
Lot of issues with international students, but this isn’t one of them. Lots of domestic students also lack basic computer and academic skills. I’m pretty sure there is already a technologies class that college students in some programs have to take.
ETA: ouf the bots must have come out while I was asleep. This went from +10 to -1 during Moscow business hours. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe it’s Maybelline.
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It was a number of years ago, but when I went back to college as a mature student I was told I needed to take an English and a math test pre-enrollment. They'd missed the fact that I'd taken courses at the school before, which meant I didn't need to.
However, I went to classes with some Canadian born students that only used their newer laptops (than I had) for game, email and playing online. We had to take a writing for business type course and the (again) Canadian born students struggled with this. I can't imagine it's gotten much better.
(I type this of course on my phone.)
Am Conestoga College graduate and let me tell you, being Conestoga College graduate is actually a great thing. we have smart students and we have dumb students. just like any school. I for 1 am a great person, have great friends, and i take care of every one that is in my life and i am glad to do it, and for that i have people that love me around me. also, Conestoga College profs are one of the best profs you can have. sometimes they can be really strict, but they will take care of you no matter what, and they will buy you what ever it is that you need. as long as your not a selfish ****head. Also, we all have great jobs, lots of money and a family that we all love and take care off. suck my dick op suck my dick
When you fly halfway across the world and pay $25k+ in tuition to learn to chop vegetables, you're either getting people who aren't actually students, or are bottom of the barrel for actually learning. I'm not kidding, obligatory Conestoga ad from this year https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/s/gn8LbIbRxg
That’s the cost to become a Canadian citizen. We allow this to happen and to prop up the rich that allows this to happen, while they live like kings
The elites have taken this country hostage in a way we never previously thought imaginable. The elites must be taking notes from each other too because it's happening across all western countries at the same time.
Nah, the elites have **always** been in charge; it's just that you can now communicate about it more freely with a wider array of people.
I think that’s more a reflection of the kinds of people certain programs attract than it is a reflection of international students. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to start a restaurant. That being said. Last winter at my college an entire class of 100% international students was caught using ChatGPT to write their research papers. iirc only a few were expelled, but most received multiple warnings and still graduated. We only found out because one of the math teachers forgot how to use the projector and accidentally showed us an email instead of the lesson slides
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My work is FULL of Conestoga students. We work 12 hour shifts so I asked them when they go to classes. Most of them don't.
Courses they are enrolled in are designed for international students, they also know they are not going to find good employment once they graduate, I met one India educated doctor recently, was working in India but now here on study course for 2 years, he said it himself he knows the course he has taken is useless but was the only one with a 3yr work permit, meaning he can stay in Canada for 5 years and he will most likely be a resident by then. Why can't government close this loop hole that if you don't find employment in your chosen field of study, you leave country at the end of your work permit, no renewals. Course fee is the cost of entry into Canada and then they establish themselves one way or the other.
Because we wouldn’t hire highly educated immigrants if they had degrees from far away lands from unis we didn’t recognize. International students back then on the other hand did just fine. They took that and ran with it, not controlling for the fact the provinces would drop the education and quality standards here so much that it offset the smooth transition well selected international students used to have. The blame lies 100% with the provinces not maintaining standards. It’s a myth that becoming an international student is a one way ticket to PR; it’s not. These low quality students are not going to ever become PRs for exactly the same reasons you have a problem with these new students: poor language skills, useless degrees, no relevant jobs eligible for consideration for PR.
Yeah people tend to blame the students a lot more than they should. At the end of the day, they’re getting scammed, too. Probably the worst of anyone.
Their parents entire life savings, often literally betting the farm, and they don’t know they’re getting scammed by us.
You should also lose your study permit if you don’t pass your classes
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Feel like the people running this college should be charged for fraud.
I'll bet its like pulling teeth to get them to speak even a tiny amount of English.Most of the students from India would just sit down on our afternoon shifts and refuse to work.I got written up for politely showing this guy how scan product into specific locations,correctly.He had previously just chucked expensive car parts anywhere.
Their English is ok, but yeah almost no work ethic. They've turned (and this is no exaggeration) one person jobs into three person jobs.
Which.. is becoming the Canadian model for businesses Make 1 full time job with pension and benefits now part time job with no pension and no benefits!
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I try to give instructions and I get a rude response saying they know how to. Then 5 minutes later I go back to chaos because they actually do not know how to..... why... needing to be shown how to do something isn't bad. Just take the guidance.
Is that culture or is that just morons? I work with nurses and train new grads like that. The ones who say they know and just ignore me do the worst and make the most med errors. If you don’t know, or maybe you do know, show me that you know it first and I’ll let you be. But until then I’m on them like a hawk until I feel comfortable - but I let them do the actual work and o observe.
I'm a medical lab technician and frequently have to ca nurses to tell them they have to recollect something because they did it wrong. The majority will immediately act defensive, demonstrate they don't care at all, or act like it's not their job lmao. The thing is that the collection instructions are available on our chart system (EPIC), and if they don't see it they can always call us and ask. But rather than admitting they don't know something, they'd rather..... Make a mistake and have to redo it. I don't know if there's just a sense of entitlement because nursing seems like such a sacrificial profession?
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Factory work? CNC Machinist here. We flat out refuse to hire from Conestoga without first putting them through the paces. I've actually had to show a "1st year apprentice" how to put a cordless drill into reverse. He was using it as a manual screw driver cause he couldn't figure out to push one of the 2 buttons.
How are they getting around the cap on work hours?
Cap was waived but it's back on this year's fall intake, which was mostly pushed to may. There are ways they work cash jobs.
They also changed the cap to not be in effect during summer term and winter breaks.
The temp agency that supplies them for my job pays in cash. A lot for them won't leave the agency BC it pays cash. That's all off the books tho
Cap comes back next may I believe. 24 hours a week but only during the actual school year. No work cap during school breaks.
Pretty sure the cap has been removed.
The cap is back in fall of this year last I saw. Could he wrong. Was waved in 2020 originally
It is but theyve increased it from 20hr to 24hrs a week.
You guys have to remember this one fact and I don't mean give them a free pass, I don't say you should be giving them money. But they come from a place that isn't so great that makes them go to the extremes you are seeing to come here. With hope trying every goddamn dirty trick in the book to find a life that's better. I know sure as fuck if I had a family let alone the last post I seen that came out of the middle east of what happened to a 17yr old? I'd want to get my daughter out of there A FUCKING SAP and I would do ANYTHING. Not saying that's all of the people who come here, but that's definitely an aspect of a reason I've seen that would make me understand why anyone would go the 1000%
Refugees are a legal international obligation for us to take. A completely different scenario then immigration. I want immigration on hold for students and low skilled work to stop all together, regardless of where they are from until we get the housing crises fixed. I want to make sure we can properly take care of the prior immigrants who are here, the refugees and the rest of us full citizens. Two different situations entirely. You realize it costs like $3500 for a return ticket to India right? If they are so poor how do they come up with that money?
Usually loans or loans from family.
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God, I went to college for a skills upgrade. Just took a few courses. Won’t say what college to avoid doxxing myself, but like 1/4 were international students who almost never showed up to class, when they did show up to class they just talked with their friends, didn’t take any notes, didn’t really understand even the most basic of English, etc.
This was my experience, too. And for group projects - either didn’t do their work or, if it was done, was plagiarized or written with ChatGPT. And trying to schedule group meetings was hell. They’d either not show or change things around to suit their schedule best and then flake or no show. The English skills were absolutely appalling.
With free food!
This ? https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/an-international-student-posted-a-video-on-how-to-get-free-food-in-canada-what-came-next-was-an-angry-mob-and-death-threats
And this, unfortunately it’s not a new concept, that food banks (not university programs) are over run because of other videos for “free food” (https://nationalpost.com/news/canada-food-bank-international-students)
Can confirm this. Met a dude in Montreal who was learning computer / laptop repair and his goal was citizenship.
lol 25k is the cheapest others are paying up towards triple to quadruple that for fucking PISS POOR education for that dollar it just blows my mind but I guess in comparison to what they are getting back home it makes it worth it and that just kills me in my soul right there. our system is truly full of fucking scum bags
Holy shit this is bad. Why in the world would anyone pay tuition to learn how to do this?
It was way worse than I thought as I continued watching.. he flew thousands of miles to cut onions and potatoes.
People flying tens of thousands of kilometres from countries to learn “hospitality management” doesn’t strike me as being people interested in learning.
Conestoga made $120 million in profits in one year, they are just bragging.
Wow... they actually named a campus after their current president? That's pretty bold of him. I suspect there are many international students who are being taken advantage of by unlicensed recruiters and "consultants" overseas who likely fudge all kinds of application requirements like computer literacy and English language proficiency in order to get students placed and collect their cut. They don't care if the student fails out in their first semester. There is a whole system of foreign exploitation that is beyond the control of the colleges and universities. And Conestoga has turned a blind eye to it for their own gain.
The students aren’t fools. They know.
They’re high school graduates with 0 exposure to the outside real world. They just got scammed into a diploma mill degree, you really think “they know”?
At high school graduation, one has enough knowledge that if they are going to go halfway around the world, and have to save up a considerable amount in their local currency, that it would be common sense to at least look up the college and its rankings. Saving up that chunk takes skill in terms of having to talk to the banks, investment officers and whatnot, not to mention researching and selecting a visa agency. If they don't do that, either they are completely ignorant, or what is more likely is that they don't really care, and are simply wanting to get a foot inside Canada and then deal with whatever happens after while they wait for PR.
That’s how things work in Canada. The rest of the world does not work the same way.
Oh but they do.
Also, there are far more students than there are economic PR spots so it’s not some done deal
Indeed. As someone from that community, all I am saying is I kind of know what is happening. You really think they head back? Some might, but most don't.
Colleges and government are in it for the money.😡
Some colleges have taken a more responsible approach. Conestoga has not.
Welcome to life
It's all government's fault, they have given free rides to all parties in this mess while filling their coffers that they are going to foolishly spend.
Provincial government * FTFY
Study permits are issued by IRcc. Province is complicit as well.
Yes they’re merely processed by the federal government, which in turn defers to the provinces on how they want to run their province including their post secondary sector, since the provinces would know more about their local conditions and are the representatives of the people of that province.
I don’t feel bad for these students. I can’t. Maybe a few years ago, but not now. These students are knowingly/willingly scamming the system. They fake documents, get loans from family to show they have funds to study here and then send it all back and raid food banks, they cheat on their exams, and when they fail, demand to be passed. I’m so over it. No sympathy from me. I only feel bad for faculty that are pressured to fudge results so the students pass and Canadian citizens.
Yeah, that's what the last few years of all of this has really destroyed in me. I have no sympathy or empathy left for these people. It sucks but it's the honest truth.
People downvote me when I voice my opinion but same. Same. My friends and family are getting fed up. My best friend, who is liberal af, is even saying that immigration and the international student situation is getting wayyyy out of hand. She says many walk into her bfs workplace begging him for a job. They had to put a sign up saying they WERENT hiring (not that it helps). This mismanagement of immigration and the international students is only going to continue breeding resentment. Far righters are already in full swing and those of us who were previously pro immigration and didnt mind things are now getting fed up. I’m not attempting to condone bad behaviour but you cant expect Canadians to just accept this lying down…
Yeah I can't help but have a bleak outlook on the future in terms of politics. I've always been a liberal but zero chance in that continuing. CPC? Oh fuck no, they will be just as bad if not worse. PPC? I like their stance on immigration, international students, and housing but a lot of their other views like LGBTQ rights, anti-vax, don't care about the environment is an issue for me. I have no one worth voting for! So now I just try to focus on the things that make me happy like concerts, festivals, and all that summer time stuff. Alcohol and rec drugs help too lol.
Aah, they are students. They have come here to learn ahem basic computing. /s This tells you how great is our selection process. These colleges need to shut down. They are a drain on society. At least choose students who are going to contribute, are going to mix with the society. There is a reason why students are "recruited" and not selected.
They do not come here to learn anything and the mindset is to come to Canada and start working on whatever job they get. Acquiring skills or any long term career are not on their agenda. Study permits are just a stepping stone for PR process, then some restaurant or gas station or trucking company will provide LMIA in return of money and PR process is done. Then the person with PR will marry someone back home in return of money, then the spouse gets the PR then their families. This is how the business works,Study permit/ visitor/ TFW visas are booming business in South Asia. Its just transfer of wealth from one part pf the world to another. Everyone takes a share from this transfer.
As someone who has provided IT support... trust me, it's not just international students who lack basic computer skills.
Getting my food services department to fill out digital time sheets should be illegal as it violates the charter of rights and freedoms as cruel and unusual punishment.
The source of most computer problems is between the chair and the keyboard.
PEBKAC errors
Our IT guy called them PICNIC users (Problems in chair, not in computer)
Lol
Back in the 90s, I ran a computer store... There were some users we would warn other technicians about by writing "USER = ID-ten-D" in the config.sys file. Like the lady who changed the background colour on Wordperfect to green, and the text colour to green (because green was her favorite colour) and called us in because all her documents disappeared ;)
Hahaha OMG
PEBCAK
We call them layer 8 problems in the OSI model of networking
I went to the public library to scan documents and email them to myself. Based on the staff responses and introduction to their systems, most people don’t have any skills whatsoever.
Btw you can now scan things on your phone
Yeah, you can, but it’s still not as smooth as a multi page scanner. Also it was the kind of formal document that gets sent to lawyers and whatnot.
Yeah u right
I've had good luck using CamScanner for B&W documents
yeah but it helps if you put "international students" before every headline if you want sensational headlines
Was about to say, I know a lot of burnouts who were proud to be born in our home and native land. At least the immigrants are trainable and don't have an overinflated sense of their worth.
Computer skills aren't taught in mandatory public school. What else do you expect? It's like being upset that the general student doesn't have any electrician skills. Knowledge doesn't just magically appear, even if you use a computer/electricity every day, it has to be taught somehow.
The people that fake going to school so that they can work at tim hortons ALSO faked their english literacy tests???? No way.....
I thought Canada was getting the cream of the crop from other countries
90% of students get jobs 6 months after graduation. Working fast food is a job I guess
Idk why we’re so quick to say “well some domestic students suck too,” the issue is that we’re not being selective in who we let in and we’re ending up with more morons.
Fail them...try to be credible
I've heard there are some teachers there who do fail them for sheer ineptitude. But there are other teachers who just don't care and pass the lot
I know a guy teaching in the firefighter training program, and the admin was pressuring him to pass students that didn't even show up. They were pretty adamant, but in the end, he still refused and managed to get away with failing them. Can you imagine ending up with firefighters who don't know how to do their job? Passing inadequate marketing students is one thing, but hiring inept emergency workers is just plain dangerous. Conestoga is ruining their reputation to the point that a diploma from there won't mean much.
Could you imagine being an alum
In other words, Conestoga College unions claim that Conestoga College played stupid games and is winning stupid prizes.
Going to throw this out there... From what I've seen, so do a bunch of domestic students. Anyway, on the core point of this post: Colleges - and several provincial governments across the country (definitely including our idiot Premier) - are 100% to blame for this. Provinces have been cutting funding for education for a while now, and universities have been responding by accepting an increasingly larger share of international students. But in order to go from 15% (made up example to illustrate the point) to 40% international students across a ton of colleges and universities, standards for international student recruiting have to drop pretty much across the board. In short, you're now accepting people who are happy to put in the minimum work required to pass courses, meanwhile they're either rich enough to party it up or they're working as much as they can often at minimum wage jobs to pay their rent, tuition, and living expenses, and make their way to PR status. Why? Because the government reduced your funding and, rather than address this problem by uniting and challenging the government to fix this through policy, colleges and universities are solving by saying "whatever, just bring in Raj and Jose who can barely type or multiply, but their dads own a chain of retail malls in India/Peru, so there's our $45k per year". Don't even get me started on the government. It's almost like if there's any proposal up for a vote, you can rely on the PCs to vote the way an over-the-top comic book villain like the Riddler would vote. Proposal to decriminalize shooting puppies in the face? Unanimous PC vote in favour. Coupled with a right-wing media blitz about how puppies are anti-Christian, and preventing someone from shooting a puppy interferes with their right to own guns. Anyway... Moving on. Conestoga unions whining about their students not having pre-requisite skills to complete their (let's call them... Generously) diplomas is kinda like an NBA team signing up an entire starting line and bench of 4'7" tall 8th graders because the NBA kept the media money for itself, and then complaining that they've lost their first 37 games in a row. I'm so tired of the 7 different groups of clowns that collectively face-planted for decades to bring the Ontario (and to a lesser extent, the Canadian) education system to where we are 😡
A similar article was posted yesterday. https://globalnews.ca/news/10459197/conestoga-is-a-foreign-student-mecca-is-its-climb-to-riches-leading-it-off-a-cliff/amp/
The first sentence is this article is fucking wild lol they could’ve left that out of an otherwise interesting piece
> The smell of South Asian spices wafts from the “Blends and Curries” food counter. That's it?
Got a call at work today from someone at the Ontario Transport Ministry and honestly though it was a scam call because her english was so bad. Had to have her send an email but the writing was not much better. I bet politicians love having the heaps of low skill low pay employees from the diploma mills so they can give themselves raises.
At this point, Canada should start handing out 3 year work permits for $30,000 with an option to study while giving out cec points for studying irrespective of your choice. I guarantee you the college’s admissions will fall to near 0 fortnight. This whole thing is a SCAM. Idk why candians don’t speak up.
Agreed and this is one of the rare times that I think the government should be given more money. I’d rather the government get the money instead of the owner of a trucking company, Subway sandwich shop or Tim Hortons do an LMIA and sell citizenship and exploit a TFW.
So fail them.
Don't forget social skills.
I went to college in Ontario 10 years ago and first semester of basically all programs had math/english which were in place to make sure you had the basics to continue in any program. Has that changed?
Yep, and some of them have a master degree in computer science from back home.
Most of the local high school grads have shit writing and math skills. I've interviewed UofT Comp Sci grads who cant write a sentence without making grammar or spelling mistakes.
They don't even understand basic punctuation or how to write in full sentences or paragraphs. They literally do stream-of-consciousness brain dumps onto the page, without any cohesion to their thinking.
That's a response to how language(English anyway) is currently taught. Little to no focus on grammar/syntax/spelling and the feeling is that they can still be good communicators. In the end, in science classes, I have to often read, and re-read several times what students write because the lack of attention to the writing makes is difficult or impossible to understand.
You can't put "Don't sound like Virginia Woolf" in the syllabus?
Bold of you to assume most of theme even know who Virginia Woolf is lol
The problem being - if you're in a customer facing role, you cant do presentations or write reports using casual language.
They don’t do the needful.
But can they draw arrows? I imagine that's what most comp sci classes do.
This is exactly what happens when you have lax immigration requirements. You get literal village people coming here.
Wait what? That resume was fake? I’m shocked…..shocked I tell you.
It's ok, Conestoga will make an exception for students lacking in skills, it's common, Niagara college did that too.
I taught English to teenagers in the middle of no where Honduras. Their goal was going to an English speaking universities. Essay structure was a foreign concept to the students I had. They also didn’t want to listen to a gringo. I tired…
It's almost like it's a problem that you created for yourself by allowing the students entry and/or not providing a course which would teach them in order to get them up to a desired level
Then why are the colleges letting them in on student visas... I feel like this is something the colleges should be screening for...
So? Fail them then..(though that usually results in a crybaby protest)
Um…the one’s with adequate skills found jobs back home and are prospering. The profile of immigrant we’re CURRENTLY attracting isn’t necessarily the type that has many prospects back home. Everyone in my family is an immigrant. They came here, worked, paid taxes and integrated. None of them had fake MBAs from the 231st ranked college in India. I think the problem we’re faced with is policy that attracts the wrong profile of immigrant, mixed with an enabling government, cultural differences and disjointed expectations.
Of course they are, that's just facts at this point, the incoming money is just too good to pass up.
No shit
Tells you all you need to know about that diploma mill
Yeah and they aren’t learning it at school either, the grads aren’t much better.
I didn’t teach at contestoga but I taught at another Ontario college. I will absolutely not provide English lessons to anyone. It’s my expectation that if an assignment requires scholarly writing and I review what that means (ie APA, full sentences, no plagiarism), it’s the students job to figure it out. I’ll take questions and I’ve even tutored but that’s rare. More students don’t ask any questions and they hand in barely legible garbage. And then they complain when they fail. I’m there to teach a specific subject and I don’t have time to teach basic writing skills.
I recently interviewed a “full time student” for an entry level role. When I asked about availability they said “full availability, 40 hours a week”. I asked about school and apparently they have 2 classes a week that can be taken virtually and the rest of Their college schedule was “co-op” and they get credits for having a job. It was all really strange. I remember not that long ago my student staff would have to switch or give up shifts so they didn’t go over their 20 hour limit or miss out on classes. Now it seems the schools don’t even have classes just camera-off sessions that you can attend while working. Its wild
So do local students. I had three seniors ask me how to log out of the Windows desktop computer today
And I had kids in school who'd go around hitting the shortcut to turn off kids' computers in the middle of their work for fun
Not now. All these kids know are Chromebooks. They're doomed
*Most adult workers* lack basic computer and academic skills, forget international students. Students coming in are just as dumb as coworkers. 😂
Never would have guessed.
But don't you dare fail them, otherwise they will protest in front of the campus and call their profs racist.
Refer to LBS maybe?
It's the same at SAIT in AB. I went to school with a slew of international kids that I honestly had no idea how they met admissions requirements. We had a joke of a class called Into to computers and people failed, these kids couldn't even learn microsoft suite.
Oh no!
Anyone who has taken the T141 or T147 programs at George Brown College can tell you that this issue is not limited to Conestoga.
I said two sugar and two milk, not two cream. two sweets
Some ppl r intellectually incompetent , more at 11
Just waiting for this post to be locked and/or deleted because apparently international students are a "protected class" on Reddit. I can summarize this shitshow with the post another user shared https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/s/kXtpOYhMMi
Easy to put an end to this. All international students MUST return to their country of origin upon completion of their degree. End the pathway to citizenship. You can come here for an education and then return home.
Some domestic students lack these skills. Actually a lot of them. Phones and chromebooks/coasters mean they don't know anything about how windows machines works. This is a huge problem for us in comp sci when students can't even find files on their own computer, don't know what file types are, all the basic stuff. Turns out you need to actually teach them. Also, chromebooks need to be purged from schools after about grade 6. This isn't new. And we need to be careful here. Just because you grew up without a computer doesn't mean you can't learn. My father grew up without electricity and became an electrical engineer. In grad school he had one lecture on this new technology a prof thought might be important, that was the transistor. He spent his career making power generators including nuclear ones for Hitachi and General Electric. In CS and previously CS and engineering teaching I have had students who grew up without computers, and a couple who grew up without regular electricity. If they were here because they were smart and willing to work hard they could and did learn. The way you address student deficiencies when they start is by, well, addressing them. If they don't know stuff, you have to teach them. That means figuring out what problems students have and creating content appropriate to that level of competence. Sometimes that's extra school time before they start 'regular' programmes to learn. Dealing with students who don't want to learn is the problem. Whether that is because they view this as transactional, or they think cheating is doing the work, those ones are a nightmare.
Do you think a domestic student is like this? https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/s/kXtpOYhMMi
Who needs those when you have chat gpt
I'm doing my Masters right now and there are a lot of group essays in the program so far. It's amazing how there are students that have difficulty with English as a second language, but come essay time, they are writing beautiful passages (but never with citations with their facts, and AI detectors mark their work as 100% AI generated or paraphrased from AI) and they just keep getting their marks back without issue
They paid for a degree. If you simply show up and pay, you get your degree. GG the future tho.
Pssst…. They’re not here to study…
Lot of issues with international students, but this isn’t one of them. Lots of domestic students also lack basic computer and academic skills. I’m pretty sure there is already a technologies class that college students in some programs have to take. ETA: ouf the bots must have come out while I was asleep. This went from +10 to -1 during Moscow business hours. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe it’s Maybelline.
This sounds like a Conestoga problem.
The hits just keep on coming... courtesy of Conestoga
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It was a number of years ago, but when I went back to college as a mature student I was told I needed to take an English and a math test pre-enrollment. They'd missed the fact that I'd taken courses at the school before, which meant I didn't need to. However, I went to classes with some Canadian born students that only used their newer laptops (than I had) for game, email and playing online. We had to take a writing for business type course and the (again) Canadian born students struggled with this. I can't imagine it's gotten much better. (I type this of course on my phone.)
Doug Ford will step in and ensure the gravy train continues.
Some racist-ass comments in here.
Yea i see them too. Report and move on. Mods are much stricter lately
The same with some domestic students.. The question is do international students have a HIGHER rate than domestic?
Likely describes many of the Canadian students as well.
Am Conestoga College graduate and let me tell you, being Conestoga College graduate is actually a great thing. we have smart students and we have dumb students. just like any school. I for 1 am a great person, have great friends, and i take care of every one that is in my life and i am glad to do it, and for that i have people that love me around me. also, Conestoga College profs are one of the best profs you can have. sometimes they can be really strict, but they will take care of you no matter what, and they will buy you what ever it is that you need. as long as your not a selfish ****head. Also, we all have great jobs, lots of money and a family that we all love and take care off. suck my dick op suck my dick
Did I just have a stroke…..
No, they are just giving an example of what a lack of basic academic skills looks like. Very helpful!