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I know you're probably right to an extent but ever since I've been on subutex for the last couple years I've pretty much never gotten sick. It's really weird, at worst I've had a slight sore throat for a couple days and thats it. I remember reading a William Burroughs novel in which he observed the same thing. Though I'm not sure of any science surrounding it.
Edit* just read the guys response below which makes a lot of sense. Interesting though.
Indeed bro, absolutely indeed, it seems that if you got opiates in you you will not even get a cold unless you take a long break, then you catch shit like a hooker catches cum. But if your taking opiates every 2nd day which is best to do with bupe you probably wont catch shit.šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ
Thatās not really sick then. I donāt go off what doctors say I go off how I feel if I donāt feel like shit then Iām not sick. Been using oxy everyday for 5 years only been sick 1 time with the flu and I definitely felt that even tho I was high af snorting oxys the whole time lol. Itās not the oxy thatās not making me sick tho itās just having a good immune system staying fit working out daily only eating healthy I stopped eating junk food around same time I started doing oxys and junk food definitely had a part in me feeling like shit and getting sick.
Something not everyone knows, is that colds and flus don't really 'cause' symptoms. The symptoms are caused by your immune system. They are immune responses to invaders.
Opioids cause a less intense immune response. This means people who come in contact with colds and flus while on opioids , can often times have less severe symptoms, or no symptoms at all.
Is this a good thing? I think mostly , yes. Your body still fights the cold or flu - but with you none the wiser.
Could it potentially be a bad thing? It could - especially in eldery folks - where their immune system needs to be on point to fighting infections.
Opioids overall aren't really that toxic to the human body. The biggest issues over time will be damage to your GI tract, from your mouth/teeth all the way to the anus, and everything in between. But that takes years of heavy use to start to take its toll.
Outside of that, hormonal imbalance, changes in the brain, sleep issues, stuff like that.
The long term effects are nowhere near as bad as a full blown cocaine or meth addiction.
This is excluding street fent, which of course is much worse.
Great comment. Iāve argued that point for years with the stimulant and alcohol crowd. They will never admit their DOC is much worse on the body generally. š«”š«”š«”
Straight up will always say my stims are worse for my body, but Iāve seen mental addiction wreck way more opiate users. I also always slept and ate on meth binges. When I stopped stims, I was just tired. No other real effects.
No I get it. And I wasnāt saying opi addiction is not without its problems.
The things we do to ānot be sickā is the real problem for every addict but yes I feel like physically itās the lesser evil of the evils. āļø
And the main problems with stims come from not taking care of yourself not sleeping and not eating not brushing your teeth. If you're doing all that then it's only gonna cause cardiovascular damage and some neurotoxicity. But not as much as alcohol š¤£
Yep yep. Ironically grinding my teeth from anger and irritation destroyed my molars long before I would tweak lol. I remember breaking my first tooth from grinding and clenching in the 4th fuckin grade.
I got lucky or something but I've withdrawn off of daily metonitazine for months and also fentanyl for over a year no problem. I still prefer to use benzos to get through but I can sit through the withdrawals. And I don't have any want to go back I only really used because of my ex. I haven't touched any opiods harder than kratom in almost 3 years and I just smoke weed and salvia now. Rarely drink.
Dang never heard someone go sober and smoke weed AND salvia LMAO so do you do salvia very often? I swear I only really hear people say āI just smoke weedā, sometimes I hear āI just smoke and drinkā. Haha wildddd
I've went daily for a month or so at a time I usually smoke like once a week or every 2 weeks sometimes a few times a week I've been trying quidding more lately.
Yeah the "salvia" part wrose my eyebrow for sure, I know of no one, let me resay it, I know of no way how that fcking drug can be considered enjoyable..
Iām genuinely happy for you but for me it was awful. I went through withdrawals like crazy trying to stop after using it for a year. My hair was thinning. I felt like shit if I didnāt take it regularly.
I was prescribed oxy 80 3x a day. Oxy 15 for break through pain. I was taking it as prescribed for 10 years. The opioid crisis backlash started and nobody would prescribe. So I turned to Kratom as I heard it was life saving.
I ended up getting help from an outpatient recovery center. They put me on subs (awful) then I got the subutex shot 1 x on 2/17/2023.
I miss oxy šÆ. Iām opioid, Kratom, suboxone free but have permanent brain fog/memory issues. I wish I could just take oxy for my pain again as everything else has been equally addictive but I still have mad pain daily.
My main problem is I don't feel opiods or opiates anymore at all like I used to. I could take 10g of kratom and be absolutely faded nodded out better than if I took 30mgs of oxy. Now I can take 15 and catch a bit of a nod but none of the euphoria. All the euphoria is gone from the substances now it's literally just nod and itchiness/nausea. It's not worth taking anything other than kratom it's too expensive for too little of an effect and not an effect I'm looking for. So I would rather just be stoned or tripping.
I want oxy too, ya know if they would just let people access their own mother fucking pharmaceutical opiate the nitazine/fentanyl and xylazine market wouldnāt have as many customers. Sure people would still fuck around with that stuff but for people who just want that clean pure energetic euphoria from oxy would benefit.
Itās a horrible grass tasting thing that makes me shit 4 times in 4 minutes and Iām talkin wet green explosive shats, I paint the bowl 2 hours after Iād take it and idk how everyone doesnāt get that gross kratom stomach.
Itās like theyāre blind to how booze and coke feels. Right as I used to drink Iād know right away this aināt my shit. Opiates right as they hit you, it almost mentally feels proper and clean, and not dirty.
Whatās long term effects of coke addiction? Iām curious considering you donāt get any physical withdrawals from coke.
And you aināt kidding about damaging your GI tract. I developed IBD (ulcerative colitis) from opioid use 100 percent. That habit along with stress definitely is what made me develop ulcerative colitis.
I smoked crack for a few years. Daily habit but functioning. Never got Covid until I stopped and then got hit with it. It has definitely weakened/damaged my front teeth. On the withdrawal side id say it is more of cravings than actual withdrawal but thatās just my experience. It feels amazing and thatās the fact of it but uppers became too demanding so now I tranquillise myself instead. I have something called Right Bundle Branch Block in my heart but not sure if thatās from the crack or something Iāve always had.
This makes so much more sense. I was literally thinking about this last night. Is this why I feel SIGNIFICANTLY better after receiving an opioid from the ER when sick? I have a physical disability that makes respiratory illnesses way harder on me in every way. Not strong enough to cough stuff up, 55lbs, never hydrated, so my reserves get shot quick. I take oxy on a daily basis. When I'm sick enough to need the hospital, literally every metric is so fucked up. Then when I get that injection everything slows down and I stat so much better. To the point where if I wasn't deathly sick with pneumonia or covid, it'd look like they just treated a withdrawal
May I ask if you know whether or not the GI tract recovers from this damage? I ask because I developed gastroparesis after approximately 5-6 years of high dosage pain medication dependency that eventually went on for a total of 20 years. I slowly weaned myself off over the course of 6 months and have been free of opiates now for almost 4 and a half months but I worry that this may be something that I will have to live with for the rest of my life. I've been told, "Wait and see if there are any improvements. You may gain motility back, and you may not" but these doctors also have zero life experience when it comes to this stuff either. Any thoughts?
I've gotten very similar answers from doctors as well, not with gi tract specifically, but more so brain changes.
My guess would be no, you never fully recover after a certain point.
The good news is you can likely prevent further damage from continuing to not use.
The best thing you can do is stay clean, eat a stricter diet with fruit and vegetables daily, take magnesium citrate to keep you regular if you get constipation, and become pro active with your health.
Keep up regular check ups with your doctor, and take care of yourself.
I think doctors have a hard time finding a simple answer because it depends on so many things.
Good luck, sorry I couldn't be more help
I've done so much to better my health. I've lost so much weight (practically 50% of my body mass over almost 4 years now) become more active, physically fit, became a pescatarian so that my eating habits fit my lifestyle and digestive system better, better sleeping habits, etc. I keep regular doctor appts and even got lab work today because for the life of me, I can't explain why I'm still dropping weight these last few months after I've stopped working out and increased my eating by almost 200% (not like I was eating a lot before due to the GP). I have to be very careful about fruits and veggies. I can't eat fibrous ones, although I'm a sucker for my berries. I have to take specific medication given to those with IBS-C and Gastroparesis in order to not just digest my food but also pass stools. Opiates destroyed my entire digestive system. Without medication to assist me, I'd end up with bezoars and blockages that result in emergency surgeries. I still have to take potassium and magnesium L-threonate because I still have the RLS type symptoms but not just in my legs but also my arms too and it's been almost 5 months now? Any clue how long those take to go away? I very much appreciate your taking the time to respond back by the way. I've been a member here for a bit, but I'm always too nervous to say anything, but I actually really wanted to ask this today, so thanks again!
Maybe. Like I said Iām clean. So far. Itās just something Iāve noticed as this is the longest Iāve been in a long time. I donāt remember ever being legit sick in 2 years.
As another poster has noted -- yes, you can still be sick even if you don't feel the symptoms. That's why, for example, screening for cancer is so important. If you have nerve damage and put your hand on a hot stove, you might not feel it, but you sure as shit will get significant burns.
Yeah boss, heroin is a cold suppressant. Back before it became illegal, you could go to the pharmacy and get a bottle of cough syrup with heroin in it. You literally canāt tell you have a cold if using heroin. Itās as if you arenāt even sick. There would be no way to tell unless you tested yourself for every sickness every day. So in a sense youāre not sick, at least no one could prove you were sick.
I get what youāre saying.. Went 4yrs using Dilaudid and not so much as a head cold, that I noticed which was okie dokie with me lol.. Idk, to me it was like I could slightly notice it but could pop a few and sickness of any kind was gone.. I sure do miss those little K4 fuckers though as those were some of the best feeling years I ever had lol..
>or proactively seeking diagnoses for any health issues that did arise
legitimately curious what you mean by this, why would opioids make you avoid getting healthcare for unrelated problems? Do you just mean because healthcare costs money in the US and you'd rather spend it on opioids?
For me to notice opioid withdrawal took me almost 2 years. It Just got worse as it progressed to a point I took 10 80s a day. Oxycodone is my issue by the way.
I've been on opioids for 20+ years and I made the same experiences. Never got I'll but once I went to detox, I would always catch some shitty virus or sth and since fellow addicts reported the same thing, we concluded that opioids were healthy and good for us because they would work as some kind of armor against diseases.
Plus the super healthy feeling when enough opioids in the system and the terrible feeling of sickness from withdrawal would underline that impression.
But of course it's bullshit and wishful thinking..
Once you manage to actually kick the opioids from your system, regain actual strength etc. you'll see the difference
Wall of text incoming: Change the way you eat, get into some kind of physical exercise, youāll start to feel great. Iām tapering off methadone currently, jumping next week, but Iāve altered my diet and got active again in the last few months and itās such a difference. Drinking raw milk cured my stomach problems, literally couldnāt get hungry without puking bile, would wake up and vomit, motion sickness, couldnāt eat spicy or piquant (hot) foods, couldnāt even swallow my own saliva without vomiting. After three weeks of drinking a gallon of raw milk a week, that all went away. I can eat crazy hot stuff now, I can fast for 36 hours with no nausea, I donāt need to eat right when I wake up to stop myself from getting sick, and thatās all just from adding one healthy thing to my diet.
I also started drinking the highest possible quality water you can get, which I get for free from a mountain valley spring (no relation to the Mountain Valley Spring Water Co. but I do use their empty glass bottles and just refill em at the spring because they are the cheapest way to get a UV resistant glass bottle to retain the structure of the water). This water tastes so good I donāt drink anything else anymore but water and raw milk (and raw kefir). Itās filtered through layers of humic shale so itās got humic acid, fulvic acid, trace minerals in high amounts (those three things make anny supplement or vitamin mineral or nutrient thatās in any food way more bioavailable so you start getting healthy physically) and itās good alkaline structured water. Makes mountain Valley Speing Water Co water taste like tap water in comparison, and MVSWC is the best water you can buy in stores (I know thereās the at one artesian water thatās mad pricy, but it comes in clear glass so itās a total rip off). The liquid death stuff comes from the alps which likey filter through humic shale as well, (MVSWās Ouachita Mountains donāt have humic shale filtered aquifers they have marine shale which is lacking in both humic and fulvic acid, but has a significant amount of trace minerals) but liquid death comes in an aluminum can thatās lined with plasticā¦total rip off. Structured water needs to be stored in uv-resistant glass in order to retain the structure indefinitely. Clear glass the water becomes unstructured in a matter of days with uv exposure and it becomes dead water instead of structured living water. Your cells need structured water to hydrate and function, they retain 100% of the benefits of the water when structured and 90% is able to be used for hydration. Unstructured dead water your cells cannot use it efficiently, 10-15% usable, so you have to drink significantly more water to become hydrated.
Donāt ever drink water out of plastic, especially coming of of dope, opiates mess with your hormones over time, especially testosterone levels. Drinking water from plastic as your main source itās been demonstrated that youāre consuming an entire credit card worth of microplastics every single week. Micro and nano plastics are hormone disrupters and conās tribute to low T or any sort of hormonal imbalance. I had severely low T after a few years of methadone, was starting to feel like my voice was being higher, body hair thinning. After changing my diet to include grass fed beef, venison, and bison, and lots of grass fed butter and tallow in addition to a wide variety of fruits and some vegetables, nixtamalized corn as the only processed food at all (aside from my salsas in the food processor, now that I can eat hot salsa again), as well as consuming about 2.5-4oz of raw local honey (which managed to destroy the allergies Iāve struggled with since a youth as a bonus) 2.5-4oz a day every single day for my T levels for two months so far on that, which are now back up to normal levels and man I really feel it! I feel powerful physically in a way that I thought I lost for good.but donāt just eat honey, gotta be raw, and you gotta also get active and eat healthy red meats (grass fed).
I donāt get sick at all anymore and aches from working out heal so much faster. The level of good that I feel from this lifestyle, the high of feeling good naturally, feeling confident in my strength and endurance, able to defend myself with my hand and feet, it feel so much better than any dope rush, and Iām not ashamed to say Iām addicted to being athletic and strong, feeling good from exerting myself and I wouldnāt jeopardize that for anything. It hit me when I got my first runners high after I finally was able to full out sprint up a hill id been struggling with, it felt infinitely better than a dope rush and it lasts longer the more you work it.
Lastly, I donāt get ill at all anymore and any little bug I feel coming on is gone when I wake up. Sunlight, active lifestyle, quality spring water (if you are nowhere near humic shale springs I can send you to where I used to get the additives for water with Fulvic, Humic acids, and trace minerals you just add a drop to your bottle good to go.
Good luck my friend, just try to remember that heroin is an artificial feeling from external sources, while physical fitness comes from within. If you can incorporate some philosophy into it too, youāre already steps above most 12 steppers and youāre setting yourself up for success in a way that your support system will end up active people instead of people who identify as ex-addicts.
Edited to add: since starting this, my mental processing power has gone through the roof. Iām under the influence of only 1mg methadone which isnāt really holding me, but just look at how long this comment is, itās like a high school essay but I wrote it in a matter of minutes. Itās become difficult to express myself succinctly because of just how fast my brain processes information now. Takes multi paragraphs but feels like itās just a few short sentences. Unfortunately I find most people donāt wanna read all that and to that I say, this comment isnāt for you. Iām able to break things down, but any explanation becomes long winded and I realize when watching tv, the nerds who say something and the hero says āin English pleaseā I always understand what they said in the first place, and it hits me that Iām the guy whoās being made fun of. I used to be pretty dumb too so itās been a trip having processing power more on point with my high childhood iq tests. Guess that potential is there still.
Anyone who bothered to read this, things get better if you work at it, I advise against 12 step in favor of a friend group with zero drug connections whoās active and will kick you into shape. I find that working out gives me a high feeling that far outweighs heroin as itās basically permanent and the only thing you have to spend is your effort and you get long term benefits not just..high. Canāt be overstated how athleticism goes hand in hand with successful recovery.
Mountain valley spring isnāt even close to the highest quality of water you can get. Its ph level of alkaline is 6-7 at most. I have an enagic kangen water filtration system and my water is 9.5 at all times. By far the best kind of water you can ingest. You can picture it as most tap and bottled water is like throwing softballs at a fence to get hydrated. Kangan water at 9.5 alkaline is like throwing bee bees through a fence. It does wonders for your body
No offense but have you considered to become that guy who successfully sells 50$ Bottles of premium water with a fancy name and logo?
I'm sorry, I couldn't make it past the first part of your comment. I can relate to the spring water though.
Not where I live, we have shitty city tapwater but in Greece, where my dad is from, everybody in the tiny mountain village gets their water from a mountain spring and the air is just pure and awesome.
But everybody smokes and drinks so much, that it doesn't matter at all :D
I miss heroin. Oxycodone and morphine had weird side effects like extreme itching and histamine reactions. I never liked fentanyl that much. It's like a stimulant opioid, really short high, and a lot of redosing. I used to do a nice .3 shot of real heroin hcl and I would hug my dog RIP, and it was one of the best feelings ever. I would do the same thing with one of my ex-girlfriends. I don't think any drugs are 'evil'. Drugs are just neutral, and they can be used therapeutically or they can be misused. As Hamilton Morris said, they are just crystalline structures made up of hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon (and sometimes chlorine). Alexander Shulgin thought that PCP and analogs were evil or dark. I've used PCP analogs, and they were sometimes pretty therapeutic. It's funny, though, PCP or phenylcyclohexylpiperdine, the molecule, is made up of 3 hexagonal rings = 666. Oh yeah, I miss heroin lol. I definitely don't miss the hellish withdrawals and "borrowing" and stealing money to get my fix. Luckily, I got clean from opiates 8 years ago and haven't been a daily drug user for 8 years. I'm on sublocade right now, I've been on subs for 7 years and I will be totally free of opiates/opioids within a year.
I agree mate. About the heroin. And yes the addiction and what we have to do ānot feel sickā is the real problem. Not the drug itself.
Extremely lucky to live in a part of the World where pure H is still available even though itās expensive af. If it were only fent Iād probably have quit long ago.
Good to hear your success though. Stay strong and keep powering through. āļøā¤ļøšŖš¼
Thank you. You're a gentleman and a scholar, as my boss used to say, lol. Me and my brother get real oxy 30s a couple of times a year, but since I've been on Sublocade, not even four 30s did anything. Once I'm done with Sublocade, it will be nice to do pharma opiates again like morphine, oxycodone, or hydromorphone. I had a pill habit a long time ago, but it was never a full-blown addiction. I would do heroin a little bit if I had a trusted source. Yeah, real oxy 30s are expensive as f, too, like $45-50 a piece.
I also got hayfaver after stopping. I never had hay-fever before.
I did use opiates nasally and orally though so maybe my nose was always too blocked up to get the hay-fever haha.
It's an infection that causes blisters on the palms, soles and throat.
In young children it can look a bit like chicken pox. It doesn't last as long though.
It is really irritating, like think when you get an itchy palm or sole of your feet and you scratch it off something to relive it. But their is no relief.
I've seen some adults get it several times badly because the strain is changing constantly. Also some people lose their toe/finger nails.
I hope I never get it again.
Edit. In all honesty I hadn't heard of it before catching it
Yes, but I never caught it when young. A few people at uni caught it I thought it was strep at first because I had blisters in my throat then my hands felt like there were on fire then the rash came up on my hands and feet. The second time wasn't as bad.
Look at it this way, opiates make you feel good, your physical well being is overseen by your psychological wellbeing. If your in a good mood all the time it pays dividends to your immune system and a healthy immune system keeps you from getting sick. Then you quit or go into wd, so much for being in a good mood. Illness is opportunistic in that way. I havent been sick in over 20yrs, no covid, no covid shots..
After 32 years .. I can honestly say it has kept my health tip top ā
I took / take due to cancer .. thankfully itās in remission
But never ever get sick ?
Only issue was losing testosterone (having to supplement .. which I believe also keeps me healthy )
Unfortunately Iāve been at the mercy of these drs .. regardless After all this time they reduced from patches and 30mg .., to now only 15mg oxy .. couldnāt get more !
And then last year they would no longer treat my RLS or anything but pain ā
So itās been such a struggle keeping my klonopin 1mg a day prescription going . No dr wants to touch a pain patient ā
I had a wonderful dr who had to retire ..
And the next dr is over cautious!
I feel bad for others ? They wonāt take any new patients?
How are you doing my friend?
Blessings
Yeah same with me. Luckily I order all of my meds from a place in Canada now for pretty cheap. I donāt think Iād still be here if I was relying on my doctor
I used to think they were good for me. They used to help me with my chronic fatigue. When I got clean I didnāt realize I was numb to all my medical problems. I didnāt give them much attention while in addiction. Now that Iām sober Iām actually taking measures for my health.
when i was using i never got sick. i was also the type of user that when i had some, i was able to function better than i did before i was using.
it eventually spun out of control.
itās possible that regular opiate use may prevent you from feeling symptoms.. but it doesnāt mean itās good for you
i miss opiates. but i am so glad i am clean from them
Iāve heard thatā¦ as long as itās clean n your utensils are fresh that itās the lifestyle risks, financial ruin, getting robbed, overdose risk, but most of all; neglect: we neglected everything during the struggle, all the meals you skipped, people u stood up, calls u didnāt answer, workouts u skipped waiting for the dope manā¦
I had a friend who was a completely dedicated heroin addict, he lived at home until he was 29, it was unspoken but his parents knew they were enabling but the other option was lose their son, eventually he did leave or was pushed out, we had his funeral on what wouldāve been his 31st bday
His mom was weirdly matter of fact about it
Same here. Rarely ever get sick while family members are sick constantly. My theory is that by using nasally, you are probably exposing yourself constantly to a little bit of germs/bacteria and thus developing an immunity to things. Imagine how much stuff your dope comes into contact with before you ingest it. (Also, this is just a single anecdotal account & could be that I just don't notice as much as others like someone else mentioned)
haha ive noticed this too..
i used to get bronchitis or whatever it was every winter..
been on dope since 2002 and aside from the times i was dopesick, i havent had so much as a sniffle in over 20 years.
you are not crazy.
Iād say for majority of my use I wasnāt āhighā I was just maintaining.
Edit: this is where addicts get a bad rap from the media. The majority of us arenāt strung out nodding all day. We lead quite functional lives (at least on the outside)
Yah.
Itās the addict behavior that comes from chasing the high that leads to that ājunkieā stereotype. Most physically dependent people donāt do that.
I loved oxy and H but those were not financially viable and then when fent start getting introduced into everything back around 2010, I decided it was time for me to quit. Then I discovered poppy tea and it allowed me to live a nice productive life. It was cheap, easy to get, easy to always do a test dose of each new batch of pods or seeds to determine the strength, and eliminated having to deal with sketchy situations to maintain supply. Then too many people found out about it and the government pretty much closed that loophole. Good luck finding any active seeds or pods now.
Luckily itās a plant. Plants are easy to grow.
Good stuff. Amazing how āpeopleā always F things up. I was just reminiscing the other day about the DNM and how easy it used to be. Now itās nothing but scams. Anything that gets popular gets ruined.
I can see where you are coming from. I'm sure people have said this already but your body is weaker during withdrawal because its fighting the synptoms so hard. So you are more susceptable to illness
I primarily stick to kratom and I believe there is some research that says it boosts immune function. I noticed i donāt get sick often even as those around me do, or i feel the beginnings of sickness but it almost never progresses beyond very minor symptoms and goes away in a day or two. But I did also get covid twice, also not everyone develops symptomatic infection from covid, maybe you were a carrier instead ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ.
There is research on more traditional opioids that suggest immunomodulation. Like in some metrics they appear to suppress immune function but may alter or even improve it in other metrics. The jury is very much still out on how exactly opioids affect immune functioning overall. But your body is under pretty intense duress when coming off opioids. Even if you are no longer feeling withdrawal symptoms, i think your body may be much more vulnerable to infection as its spending resources restoring homeostasis instead of maintaining the immune system.
However, opioids are like the perfect sickness medication. They cover up a ton of symptoms of common colds and flus. They suppress cough, they relieve pain from body aches, they help you sleep easier, they ease malaise by just making you feel better and more comfortable, and they can plug up diarrhea. They are only really counterproductive in dealing with nausea and I donāt think they will help much with congestion or fever. However you may not even notice cuz youāre cozy enough from the opioids anyways lol.
I know exactly what you mean but the longer I went the more I increasingly assumed that I just didn't feel it š¤š
But at same time that might apply to mild illnesses with minor symptoms plus the obvious cough suppressive action of opioids in general let alone strongest ones like heroin. But moderate to severe illnesses I definately think you'd feel regardless, even just a true flu (influenza) or moderate and severe covid for example. And I didn't get sick with either since decades while on opioids, so I still wonder the exact same thing (whether opioids have some kind of protective action and/or whether it's at least partially due to my completely fucked nasal mucosa which is more or less non existent (as in that viruses have a much harder time to dock onto cells in nose compared to a healthy moist intact nasal mucosa).
Anyhow, I use opioids since ca 30 years and last time I was really sick was influenza about 25 years ago - no idea whether related or not.
To be fair though I also have to mention that since Covid, I was very careful and until vaccines and post Delta didn't go inside venues maskless and since Omicron I still wear N95 mask when incidences are high i.e. mainly winter and in confined inside spaces with many people for extended periods of time, for example in train on commute in the cold weather months. So that surely also was a big factor why I didn't get sick even in the last 4 covid years.
But still, normally should have caught C19 at least once because since ca. summer 2022, I don't mask even in winter when incidences ultra high in my work place which is inside Office with approx 50 people in a large inside open Office room.
To your Q whether heroin is good, what definately applies to all clean aka pharm versions of opioids is that they don't harm any organs or are otherwise toxic like many other much weaker and even OTC meds (yes they make you addicted as hell and all other aspects we all know, but they are very special and "good" drugs in terms of direct harm to Organs and toxicity, which is why Borroughs rightly said when using pure clean opioids you can get 90 years old and many other tolerated common drugs like tobacco let alone alcohol are MUCH more damaging to health).
Welcome mate and agreed, ultimately I have no clue either all just guessing.
But I just remembered another very interesting fact regarding this topic:
In the Swiss pharm heroin clinic/centers, they worried very much that their clients aka addicts would be very high risk for severe covid due to bad health and many with damaged lungs, COPD etc.
So they did everything to minimize Covid infection risk by various measures incl. more generous take home rules so that clients were less exposed thru travelling and when at center.
One year into pandemic, once they had experience and data from patients i.e. how many infected, how many severe when infected and how many died, the result surprised them hugely: instead of expected higher risk i.e. higher share that develop severe covid or even die, the opposite was the case: their clients had BELOW average/normal healthier population share of severe cases, deaths, etc.
They tried to come up with possible explanations but failed to do so - no ideas or solid theories as to the why, only the fact that the case.
They to this day Phrase it as "baffled"
I mention this because it perfectly fits into the theory and topic of this thread ššŖš
Thats something that users have said forever - when youāre strung out you donāt seem to get common colds, flu, etc.
You should read some William Burroughs. He believed that addicts could live longer than non addicts because of the cellular regeneration brought about through constant cycles of cold turkey and getting re-addicted. Very interesting stuff and he lived well into his 80s and was strung out for most of his adult life.
I honestly think opiates would either have no effect, or might even be good for you, IF you had a steady supply that was free of other drugs, impurities etc. in that scenario, the world could be full of 99 year old dope fiends.
Unfortunately the war on drugs fucked that up for all of us.
Interesting stuff.
No doubt about the impure supply mate. Luckily we havenāt been affected by the tranq dope YET but I think itās only a matter of time.
Iād have quit a long time ago if all we had was fent/zenes. Feel sorry for those coming up today. They may never know what pure H feels like.
This is debatable because lots of people HAVE to hate and demonize the drug in order to attempt to get sober so you're never going to get honest feedback.
Personally in my own anecdotal experience I never got sick, tired, or aged for almost a decade of daily usage, since I've been "in recovery" I've been falling to pieces in every way possible. They're absolutely good for you, just because certain people are incompetent and reckless its become this demonized terrible thing in everyone's minds now.
lol i always felt like my drug use helped me too, ever since i been a poly drug user(4-5 years) iāve gotten sick on maybe 1 or 2 occasions. never got covid either.
Once I used opioids my whole life changed. My pain was under control. I was making money. I had my life back. Then the fucking Government told the doctors to stop treating people like me. Once I was ācut offā I continued to use. I know we are not aloud to source and itās all scammers out there but I wish I had the knowledge to use the web like others.
Itās really not that hard. If you have a bit of common sense and reading comprehension you can do it.
Hardest thing nowadays is getting cash to crypto. All on ramps are getting squeezed.
Opiates are medicinal until you try to stop them. Then you get hit with all the sickness and pain that you had avoided when taking them. They could be āgoodā if taken in irregular doses for specific situations but thatās an almost impossible level of self control.
IMO, Most definitely YES !
On seed tea (basically liquid Opium) for over 5 years now. Never get sick or ill. Had diagnostic blood & urine tests & diagnostic imaging on all major organs just recently. All good ! 52y/o M.
Although it is a medical fact that long term CLEAN opiate use, in general, cause no significant harm to the human body.
OD, tainted gear & unclean IV use is a totally different story though !
Absolutely, if we could all just have easy access to pharmaceutical opioids I bet you this fentanyl/nitazine/benzomidazole analog market would drop all the way down. But they wonāt give up the āwar on drugsā
Whatās funny is there were times where my wife and one kid at the time would get sick and then couple days later I would start to get what they had. I would take my normal two 30ās then couple hours later I felt better and never got any more sick, almost like the opiates cured it. I always thought it was strange
Firmy believe dope either makes you not get sick besides dopesick of course or allows you to be sick and not feel it or maybe being dopesick is just so awful that by comparison being sick with like the flu isnt so bad i get sick all the fucking time when im clean and sober but other than wd never when im in active addiction
As for dope being "good for you" id say its not good but i also wouldnt say its bad either literally every single problem ive had in my 13 or so years of active addiction has all came down to a lack of drugs as long as i have the drugs i have zero issues i visit and spend quality time with my friends and family am never nodded out or visibly fucked up i hold down full time employment pay my bills etc everything your average person does. The wheels all start to fall off when something beyond my control comes up like when my work had to shut down for a month due to the availability of certain materials we work with or my plug getting arrested or shot or something like that. I can hold my shit together just fine professionally personally and financially just need to drive an hour or 2 once a week and make it back home without ajy police interaction and as far as im aware ive never had any health issues from it
Now the Suboxone that shit fucked me up when i had it and rotted every tooth out or my head in less than 3 years didnt even have any cavities prior to that and made me feel not so great but dope had become unavailable and i thought i needed to quit before i fucked my life up and kinda wish i had just kept doing dope
Amd fentanyl and zenes i have no idea how thats guna effect me in the long run only difference so far as i have to use a lot more than i did with heroin and the early fent analogs like every 4 hours imstead of 3 or 4 times a day
Suppression of immune system doesnt mean a thing is healthy lol :D opiates crash testosterone levels as fuck so if youre a guy they are not so good. I can feel the difference immedeately when Im off.
Suppression of immune system would mean I get sick more not less no?
And agree about testosterone and that sucks. Iām not justifying use Iām just pointing out my experience and it seems that quite a few other people share the same.
I dont know, but from the past when you think about Spanish flu for example, the people who were dying the most were strong guys with heavy immune reactions. So it kinda makes sense that you will get sick less when your immune system is suppressed in some cases, but I dont know. I have it the other way around when I was on opiates I was sick a lot of the times. But part of that was also that when I was on kratom I didnt give a shit about my body. Now I eat healthy, try to sleep healthy and take cold showers so theres that
Opiates give me courage and help me cultivate yang. Until im on them too long and it lowers my T. The increased dopamine make them a great antipsychotic as well
lots of ppl say that but i have gotten sick on kratom and odsmt multiple times so idk. one time i ran out of stuff while being sick so that was fun lol
yea man it does enhance ya immune system somehow. could be just cause you don't go many places when you are on dope, pretty safely quarantined while you wait for the next shot. Read junkie, Burroughs talks about the not getting sick part of dope use. pretty common
I swear bro i was around so many people with covid when i was on fentanyl and never got it. Also never caught the flu or even a common cold. My seasonal allergies even went away. So crazy
We probably all got sick with all kinds of things when we were using, just too high to feel it.
You've only been clean for a short time so you're body is under a lot of stress as it adjusts to this new normal. It throws everything out of whack, so of course you're going to be more likely to get sick.
I got clean with suboxone and I'm still taking it. But the first few years clean, I got sick as fuck twice a year. Covid probably was partly to blame, but I didn't eat a lot at first and didn't really take care of myself, so all that created an environment that made it easy to get sick.
As your health returns, your immune system will get better. Just try to eat healthier and take care of yourself and things will get better.
You don't realize when you're when you're using because staying out of withdrawals comes above anything else so those flus and colds become secondary in your body
You still get sick, you just donāt feel it. I once fell down a stair on a lot of diazepam and a shit ton of oxys. I didnāt feel a thing until the next day when I experienced pain in my arm went to the ER and they told me I broke my arm that night. Opiates just opress pain, physical or psychological.
Well I started doing them heavily when I was 19/20 (dabbled as a young teen)...got high pretty much everyday from 20-23. Now i'm 25 and got mistaken for a high schooler. Now that i've been off the shit for 10+ months the high I get from being told I look so young despite spending my early 20s strung out on philly dope is *almost* as good as the rush from a bag of fetty/tranq party mix š
When I was addicted to oxycodone I never got ill. Also opioids are one of the least harmful drugs on your body along side shrooms etc. correct me if Iām wrong on that :). Obviously they can effect mental wellbeing but other than that yeah theyāre very easy on the body
Not as easy as it sounds but admire there program. Along with Switzerland and Canada. Any steps toward safe supply is good. Wish other countries would follow
For me I have brain injury and other injuries. The opiates definitely help me function and keep a clear head. I've had iq tests done while on opiates and I'm at 145ish. I drop to 115 while not using because of pain induced brain fog among other issues.
Yeah,I hardly ever get a flu ,been using for 29 years (methadone ) now, but I caught Covid-19,didn't feel that good,then i got a flu afterwards & the flu was worse than Covid-19,ive had covid once but ive got family that have had it up to 5 times now,& im not having anymore of the so called vaccination or booster shots,iff it was a vaccination ppl wouldn't catch it more than once
This is the most brain dead junkie take Iāve ever heard.
Your immune system wasnāt able to function when you were using. Now itās trying to stabilize itself.
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you also got sick but never felt itš¤£
Yeah bro I can't even count how many times I got really fucking sick from not feeling the cold outside (-12Ā°C) & sweating while on opiates
Sounds like a feature.
I know you're probably right to an extent but ever since I've been on subutex for the last couple years I've pretty much never gotten sick. It's really weird, at worst I've had a slight sore throat for a couple days and thats it. I remember reading a William Burroughs novel in which he observed the same thing. Though I'm not sure of any science surrounding it. Edit* just read the guys response below which makes a lot of sense. Interesting though.
Indeed bro, absolutely indeed, it seems that if you got opiates in you you will not even get a cold unless you take a long break, then you catch shit like a hooker catches cum. But if your taking opiates every 2nd day which is best to do with bupe you probably wont catch shit.šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆ
100%. If you read my reply, this is exactly what was talking about - except in more detail.
Thatās not really sick then. I donāt go off what doctors say I go off how I feel if I donāt feel like shit then Iām not sick. Been using oxy everyday for 5 years only been sick 1 time with the flu and I definitely felt that even tho I was high af snorting oxys the whole time lol. Itās not the oxy thatās not making me sick tho itās just having a good immune system staying fit working out daily only eating healthy I stopped eating junk food around same time I started doing oxys and junk food definitely had a part in me feeling like shit and getting sick.
Something not everyone knows, is that colds and flus don't really 'cause' symptoms. The symptoms are caused by your immune system. They are immune responses to invaders. Opioids cause a less intense immune response. This means people who come in contact with colds and flus while on opioids , can often times have less severe symptoms, or no symptoms at all. Is this a good thing? I think mostly , yes. Your body still fights the cold or flu - but with you none the wiser. Could it potentially be a bad thing? It could - especially in eldery folks - where their immune system needs to be on point to fighting infections. Opioids overall aren't really that toxic to the human body. The biggest issues over time will be damage to your GI tract, from your mouth/teeth all the way to the anus, and everything in between. But that takes years of heavy use to start to take its toll. Outside of that, hormonal imbalance, changes in the brain, sleep issues, stuff like that. The long term effects are nowhere near as bad as a full blown cocaine or meth addiction. This is excluding street fent, which of course is much worse.
Great comment. Iāve argued that point for years with the stimulant and alcohol crowd. They will never admit their DOC is much worse on the body generally. š«”š«”š«”
Straight up will always say my stims are worse for my body, but Iāve seen mental addiction wreck way more opiate users. I also always slept and ate on meth binges. When I stopped stims, I was just tired. No other real effects.
No I get it. And I wasnāt saying opi addiction is not without its problems. The things we do to ānot be sickā is the real problem for every addict but yes I feel like physically itās the lesser evil of the evils. āļø
And the main problems with stims come from not taking care of yourself not sleeping and not eating not brushing your teeth. If you're doing all that then it's only gonna cause cardiovascular damage and some neurotoxicity. But not as much as alcohol š¤£
Yep yep. Ironically grinding my teeth from anger and irritation destroyed my molars long before I would tweak lol. I remember breaking my first tooth from grinding and clenching in the 4th fuckin grade.
I got lucky or something but I've withdrawn off of daily metonitazine for months and also fentanyl for over a year no problem. I still prefer to use benzos to get through but I can sit through the withdrawals. And I don't have any want to go back I only really used because of my ex. I haven't touched any opiods harder than kratom in almost 3 years and I just smoke weed and salvia now. Rarely drink.
Dang never heard someone go sober and smoke weed AND salvia LMAO so do you do salvia very often? I swear I only really hear people say āI just smoke weedā, sometimes I hear āI just smoke and drinkā. Haha wildddd
I've went daily for a month or so at a time I usually smoke like once a week or every 2 weeks sometimes a few times a week I've been trying quidding more lately.
Yeah the "salvia" part wrose my eyebrow for sure, I know of no one, let me resay it, I know of no way how that fcking drug can be considered enjoyable..
Kratom is a nightmare IMO
I've never had a problem with it even after using daily for years I never took more than 14g a day and generally only took 10
Iām genuinely happy for you but for me it was awful. I went through withdrawals like crazy trying to stop after using it for a year. My hair was thinning. I felt like shit if I didnāt take it regularly. I was prescribed oxy 80 3x a day. Oxy 15 for break through pain. I was taking it as prescribed for 10 years. The opioid crisis backlash started and nobody would prescribe. So I turned to Kratom as I heard it was life saving. I ended up getting help from an outpatient recovery center. They put me on subs (awful) then I got the subutex shot 1 x on 2/17/2023. I miss oxy šÆ. Iām opioid, Kratom, suboxone free but have permanent brain fog/memory issues. I wish I could just take oxy for my pain again as everything else has been equally addictive but I still have mad pain daily.
My main problem is I don't feel opiods or opiates anymore at all like I used to. I could take 10g of kratom and be absolutely faded nodded out better than if I took 30mgs of oxy. Now I can take 15 and catch a bit of a nod but none of the euphoria. All the euphoria is gone from the substances now it's literally just nod and itchiness/nausea. It's not worth taking anything other than kratom it's too expensive for too little of an effect and not an effect I'm looking for. So I would rather just be stoned or tripping.
Have you tried poppy tea?
I want oxy too, ya know if they would just let people access their own mother fucking pharmaceutical opiate the nitazine/fentanyl and xylazine market wouldnāt have as many customers. Sure people would still fuck around with that stuff but for people who just want that clean pure energetic euphoria from oxy would benefit.
Itās a horrible grass tasting thing that makes me shit 4 times in 4 minutes and Iām talkin wet green explosive shats, I paint the bowl 2 hours after Iād take it and idk how everyone doesnāt get that gross kratom stomach.
Kratom is š¤®
It is horrible I agree heavily. The after taste too when you burp a little and taste pure kratom grassš¤¢
I've had it affect my teeth also. Been on opiates for 10 plus years.
Itās physical addiction that wrecks us, waaay moreso than mental.
Itās like theyāre blind to how booze and coke feels. Right as I used to drink Iād know right away this aināt my shit. Opiates right as they hit you, it almost mentally feels proper and clean, and not dirty.
Whatās long term effects of coke addiction? Iām curious considering you donāt get any physical withdrawals from coke. And you aināt kidding about damaging your GI tract. I developed IBD (ulcerative colitis) from opioid use 100 percent. That habit along with stress definitely is what made me develop ulcerative colitis.
I smoked crack for a few years. Daily habit but functioning. Never got Covid until I stopped and then got hit with it. It has definitely weakened/damaged my front teeth. On the withdrawal side id say it is more of cravings than actual withdrawal but thatās just my experience. It feels amazing and thatās the fact of it but uppers became too demanding so now I tranquillise myself instead. I have something called Right Bundle Branch Block in my heart but not sure if thatās from the crack or something Iāve always had.
This makes so much more sense. I was literally thinking about this last night. Is this why I feel SIGNIFICANTLY better after receiving an opioid from the ER when sick? I have a physical disability that makes respiratory illnesses way harder on me in every way. Not strong enough to cough stuff up, 55lbs, never hydrated, so my reserves get shot quick. I take oxy on a daily basis. When I'm sick enough to need the hospital, literally every metric is so fucked up. Then when I get that injection everything slows down and I stat so much better. To the point where if I wasn't deathly sick with pneumonia or covid, it'd look like they just treated a withdrawal
Huh? I'm confused.
Facts
May I ask if you know whether or not the GI tract recovers from this damage? I ask because I developed gastroparesis after approximately 5-6 years of high dosage pain medication dependency that eventually went on for a total of 20 years. I slowly weaned myself off over the course of 6 months and have been free of opiates now for almost 4 and a half months but I worry that this may be something that I will have to live with for the rest of my life. I've been told, "Wait and see if there are any improvements. You may gain motility back, and you may not" but these doctors also have zero life experience when it comes to this stuff either. Any thoughts?
I've gotten very similar answers from doctors as well, not with gi tract specifically, but more so brain changes. My guess would be no, you never fully recover after a certain point. The good news is you can likely prevent further damage from continuing to not use. The best thing you can do is stay clean, eat a stricter diet with fruit and vegetables daily, take magnesium citrate to keep you regular if you get constipation, and become pro active with your health. Keep up regular check ups with your doctor, and take care of yourself. I think doctors have a hard time finding a simple answer because it depends on so many things. Good luck, sorry I couldn't be more help
I've done so much to better my health. I've lost so much weight (practically 50% of my body mass over almost 4 years now) become more active, physically fit, became a pescatarian so that my eating habits fit my lifestyle and digestive system better, better sleeping habits, etc. I keep regular doctor appts and even got lab work today because for the life of me, I can't explain why I'm still dropping weight these last few months after I've stopped working out and increased my eating by almost 200% (not like I was eating a lot before due to the GP). I have to be very careful about fruits and veggies. I can't eat fibrous ones, although I'm a sucker for my berries. I have to take specific medication given to those with IBS-C and Gastroparesis in order to not just digest my food but also pass stools. Opiates destroyed my entire digestive system. Without medication to assist me, I'd end up with bezoars and blockages that result in emergency surgeries. I still have to take potassium and magnesium L-threonate because I still have the RLS type symptoms but not just in my legs but also my arms too and it's been almost 5 months now? Any clue how long those take to go away? I very much appreciate your taking the time to respond back by the way. I've been a member here for a bit, but I'm always too nervous to say anything, but I actually really wanted to ask this today, so thanks again!
i think you might be subconsciously trying to justify your use brother
Maybe. Like I said Iām clean. So far. Itās just something Iāve noticed as this is the longest Iāve been in a long time. I donāt remember ever being legit sick in 2 years.
Because you were literally on drugs that prevented you from feeling things or proactively seeking diagnoses for any health issues that did arise.
I mean if you never *FEEL* sick are you ever really sick? Sounds good to me.
As another poster has noted -- yes, you can still be sick even if you don't feel the symptoms. That's why, for example, screening for cancer is so important. If you have nerve damage and put your hand on a hot stove, you might not feel it, but you sure as shit will get significant burns.
The answer to that question is yes
Yeah boss, heroin is a cold suppressant. Back before it became illegal, you could go to the pharmacy and get a bottle of cough syrup with heroin in it. You literally canāt tell you have a cold if using heroin. Itās as if you arenāt even sick. There would be no way to tell unless you tested yourself for every sickness every day. So in a sense youāre not sick, at least no one could prove you were sick.
Cough suppressant * but yeah i wish i was around when laudanum was readily prescribed for coughs
I get what youāre saying.. Went 4yrs using Dilaudid and not so much as a head cold, that I noticed which was okie dokie with me lol.. Idk, to me it was like I could slightly notice it but could pop a few and sickness of any kind was gone.. I sure do miss those little K4 fuckers though as those were some of the best feeling years I ever had lol..
Yeah you are but you don't feel it cuz you're wired on opiates, goofballšTry not using for 2 days and see how sick you feel
>or proactively seeking diagnoses for any health issues that did arise legitimately curious what you mean by this, why would opioids make you avoid getting healthcare for unrelated problems? Do you just mean because healthcare costs money in the US and you'd rather spend it on opioids?
I'm guessing he's meaning because addicts tend not to take very good care of themselves.. shoot dope and feel like He-man. Who needs a dr?
For me to notice opioid withdrawal took me almost 2 years. It Just got worse as it progressed to a point I took 10 80s a day. Oxycodone is my issue by the way.
as we do
I've been on opioids for 20+ years and I made the same experiences. Never got I'll but once I went to detox, I would always catch some shitty virus or sth and since fellow addicts reported the same thing, we concluded that opioids were healthy and good for us because they would work as some kind of armor against diseases. Plus the super healthy feeling when enough opioids in the system and the terrible feeling of sickness from withdrawal would underline that impression. But of course it's bullshit and wishful thinking.. Once you manage to actually kick the opioids from your system, regain actual strength etc. you'll see the difference
I think this is reasonable. Will see once I get multiple months under my belt.
Wall of text incoming: Change the way you eat, get into some kind of physical exercise, youāll start to feel great. Iām tapering off methadone currently, jumping next week, but Iāve altered my diet and got active again in the last few months and itās such a difference. Drinking raw milk cured my stomach problems, literally couldnāt get hungry without puking bile, would wake up and vomit, motion sickness, couldnāt eat spicy or piquant (hot) foods, couldnāt even swallow my own saliva without vomiting. After three weeks of drinking a gallon of raw milk a week, that all went away. I can eat crazy hot stuff now, I can fast for 36 hours with no nausea, I donāt need to eat right when I wake up to stop myself from getting sick, and thatās all just from adding one healthy thing to my diet. I also started drinking the highest possible quality water you can get, which I get for free from a mountain valley spring (no relation to the Mountain Valley Spring Water Co. but I do use their empty glass bottles and just refill em at the spring because they are the cheapest way to get a UV resistant glass bottle to retain the structure of the water). This water tastes so good I donāt drink anything else anymore but water and raw milk (and raw kefir). Itās filtered through layers of humic shale so itās got humic acid, fulvic acid, trace minerals in high amounts (those three things make anny supplement or vitamin mineral or nutrient thatās in any food way more bioavailable so you start getting healthy physically) and itās good alkaline structured water. Makes mountain Valley Speing Water Co water taste like tap water in comparison, and MVSWC is the best water you can buy in stores (I know thereās the at one artesian water thatās mad pricy, but it comes in clear glass so itās a total rip off). The liquid death stuff comes from the alps which likey filter through humic shale as well, (MVSWās Ouachita Mountains donāt have humic shale filtered aquifers they have marine shale which is lacking in both humic and fulvic acid, but has a significant amount of trace minerals) but liquid death comes in an aluminum can thatās lined with plasticā¦total rip off. Structured water needs to be stored in uv-resistant glass in order to retain the structure indefinitely. Clear glass the water becomes unstructured in a matter of days with uv exposure and it becomes dead water instead of structured living water. Your cells need structured water to hydrate and function, they retain 100% of the benefits of the water when structured and 90% is able to be used for hydration. Unstructured dead water your cells cannot use it efficiently, 10-15% usable, so you have to drink significantly more water to become hydrated. Donāt ever drink water out of plastic, especially coming of of dope, opiates mess with your hormones over time, especially testosterone levels. Drinking water from plastic as your main source itās been demonstrated that youāre consuming an entire credit card worth of microplastics every single week. Micro and nano plastics are hormone disrupters and conās tribute to low T or any sort of hormonal imbalance. I had severely low T after a few years of methadone, was starting to feel like my voice was being higher, body hair thinning. After changing my diet to include grass fed beef, venison, and bison, and lots of grass fed butter and tallow in addition to a wide variety of fruits and some vegetables, nixtamalized corn as the only processed food at all (aside from my salsas in the food processor, now that I can eat hot salsa again), as well as consuming about 2.5-4oz of raw local honey (which managed to destroy the allergies Iāve struggled with since a youth as a bonus) 2.5-4oz a day every single day for my T levels for two months so far on that, which are now back up to normal levels and man I really feel it! I feel powerful physically in a way that I thought I lost for good.but donāt just eat honey, gotta be raw, and you gotta also get active and eat healthy red meats (grass fed). I donāt get sick at all anymore and aches from working out heal so much faster. The level of good that I feel from this lifestyle, the high of feeling good naturally, feeling confident in my strength and endurance, able to defend myself with my hand and feet, it feel so much better than any dope rush, and Iām not ashamed to say Iām addicted to being athletic and strong, feeling good from exerting myself and I wouldnāt jeopardize that for anything. It hit me when I got my first runners high after I finally was able to full out sprint up a hill id been struggling with, it felt infinitely better than a dope rush and it lasts longer the more you work it. Lastly, I donāt get ill at all anymore and any little bug I feel coming on is gone when I wake up. Sunlight, active lifestyle, quality spring water (if you are nowhere near humic shale springs I can send you to where I used to get the additives for water with Fulvic, Humic acids, and trace minerals you just add a drop to your bottle good to go. Good luck my friend, just try to remember that heroin is an artificial feeling from external sources, while physical fitness comes from within. If you can incorporate some philosophy into it too, youāre already steps above most 12 steppers and youāre setting yourself up for success in a way that your support system will end up active people instead of people who identify as ex-addicts. Edited to add: since starting this, my mental processing power has gone through the roof. Iām under the influence of only 1mg methadone which isnāt really holding me, but just look at how long this comment is, itās like a high school essay but I wrote it in a matter of minutes. Itās become difficult to express myself succinctly because of just how fast my brain processes information now. Takes multi paragraphs but feels like itās just a few short sentences. Unfortunately I find most people donāt wanna read all that and to that I say, this comment isnāt for you. Iām able to break things down, but any explanation becomes long winded and I realize when watching tv, the nerds who say something and the hero says āin English pleaseā I always understand what they said in the first place, and it hits me that Iām the guy whoās being made fun of. I used to be pretty dumb too so itās been a trip having processing power more on point with my high childhood iq tests. Guess that potential is there still. Anyone who bothered to read this, things get better if you work at it, I advise against 12 step in favor of a friend group with zero drug connections whoās active and will kick you into shape. I find that working out gives me a high feeling that far outweighs heroin as itās basically permanent and the only thing you have to spend is your effort and you get long term benefits not just..high. Canāt be overstated how athleticism goes hand in hand with successful recovery.
Bro. š¼š¼š¼š¬š¬š¬ššš I appreciate you though. āļøā¤ļø
Mountain valley spring isnāt even close to the highest quality of water you can get. Its ph level of alkaline is 6-7 at most. I have an enagic kangen water filtration system and my water is 9.5 at all times. By far the best kind of water you can ingest. You can picture it as most tap and bottled water is like throwing softballs at a fence to get hydrated. Kangan water at 9.5 alkaline is like throwing bee bees through a fence. It does wonders for your body
Yep.. heres another tid bit for you youngins out there.. the older you get, the harder it is bounce back.
No offense but have you considered to become that guy who successfully sells 50$ Bottles of premium water with a fancy name and logo? I'm sorry, I couldn't make it past the first part of your comment. I can relate to the spring water though. Not where I live, we have shitty city tapwater but in Greece, where my dad is from, everybody in the tiny mountain village gets their water from a mountain spring and the air is just pure and awesome. But everybody smokes and drinks so much, that it doesn't matter at all :D
I miss heroin. Oxycodone and morphine had weird side effects like extreme itching and histamine reactions. I never liked fentanyl that much. It's like a stimulant opioid, really short high, and a lot of redosing. I used to do a nice .3 shot of real heroin hcl and I would hug my dog RIP, and it was one of the best feelings ever. I would do the same thing with one of my ex-girlfriends. I don't think any drugs are 'evil'. Drugs are just neutral, and they can be used therapeutically or they can be misused. As Hamilton Morris said, they are just crystalline structures made up of hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon (and sometimes chlorine). Alexander Shulgin thought that PCP and analogs were evil or dark. I've used PCP analogs, and they were sometimes pretty therapeutic. It's funny, though, PCP or phenylcyclohexylpiperdine, the molecule, is made up of 3 hexagonal rings = 666. Oh yeah, I miss heroin lol. I definitely don't miss the hellish withdrawals and "borrowing" and stealing money to get my fix. Luckily, I got clean from opiates 8 years ago and haven't been a daily drug user for 8 years. I'm on sublocade right now, I've been on subs for 7 years and I will be totally free of opiates/opioids within a year.
I agree mate. About the heroin. And yes the addiction and what we have to do ānot feel sickā is the real problem. Not the drug itself. Extremely lucky to live in a part of the World where pure H is still available even though itās expensive af. If it were only fent Iād probably have quit long ago. Good to hear your success though. Stay strong and keep powering through. āļøā¤ļøšŖš¼
Thank you. You're a gentleman and a scholar, as my boss used to say, lol. Me and my brother get real oxy 30s a couple of times a year, but since I've been on Sublocade, not even four 30s did anything. Once I'm done with Sublocade, it will be nice to do pharma opiates again like morphine, oxycodone, or hydromorphone. I had a pill habit a long time ago, but it was never a full-blown addiction. I would do heroin a little bit if I had a trusted source. Yeah, real oxy 30s are expensive as f, too, like $45-50 a piece.
I got covid and hand foot and mouth (twice) my first few months of clean time. Sucked.
See what I mean? I knew I wasnāt the only one.
I also got hayfaver after stopping. I never had hay-fever before. I did use opiates nasally and orally though so maybe my nose was always too blocked up to get the hay-fever haha.
What is hand foot and mouth? Never heard of that before.
It's an infection that causes blisters on the palms, soles and throat. In young children it can look a bit like chicken pox. It doesn't last as long though. It is really irritating, like think when you get an itchy palm or sole of your feet and you scratch it off something to relive it. But their is no relief. I've seen some adults get it several times badly because the strain is changing constantly. Also some people lose their toe/finger nails. I hope I never get it again. Edit. In all honesty I hadn't heard of it before catching it
Isnāt hand foot and mouth for like toddlers?
Yes, but I never caught it when young. A few people at uni caught it I thought it was strep at first because I had blisters in my throat then my hands felt like there were on fire then the rash came up on my hands and feet. The second time wasn't as bad.
Look at it this way, opiates make you feel good, your physical well being is overseen by your psychological wellbeing. If your in a good mood all the time it pays dividends to your immune system and a healthy immune system keeps you from getting sick. Then you quit or go into wd, so much for being in a good mood. Illness is opportunistic in that way. I havent been sick in over 20yrs, no covid, no covid shots..
This is a very good point.
After 32 years .. I can honestly say it has kept my health tip top ā I took / take due to cancer .. thankfully itās in remission But never ever get sick ? Only issue was losing testosterone (having to supplement .. which I believe also keeps me healthy )
Cheers mate. So glad you are in remission and I hope it stays that way. āļøā¤ļøšŖš¼
Thank u very much my friend Itās a journey nowadays.. sending positive vibes your way
We are in a Similar boat and we both feel similarly about our use What does your dosing look like?
Unfortunately Iāve been at the mercy of these drs .. regardless After all this time they reduced from patches and 30mg .., to now only 15mg oxy .. couldnāt get more ! And then last year they would no longer treat my RLS or anything but pain ā So itās been such a struggle keeping my klonopin 1mg a day prescription going . No dr wants to touch a pain patient ā I had a wonderful dr who had to retire .. And the next dr is over cautious! I feel bad for others ? They wonāt take any new patients? How are you doing my friend? Blessings
Yeah same with me. Luckily I order all of my meds from a place in Canada now for pretty cheap. I donāt think Iād still be here if I was relying on my doctor
Glad u have relief my friend! Sending healthy and positive vibes always ! Namaste
I used to think they were good for me. They used to help me with my chronic fatigue. When I got clean I didnāt realize I was numb to all my medical problems. I didnāt give them much attention while in addiction. Now that Iām sober Iām actually taking measures for my health.
Totally fair comment.
when i was using i never got sick. i was also the type of user that when i had some, i was able to function better than i did before i was using. it eventually spun out of control. itās possible that regular opiate use may prevent you from feeling symptoms.. but it doesnāt mean itās good for you i miss opiates. but i am so glad i am clean from them
Agree totally.
Iāve heard thatā¦ as long as itās clean n your utensils are fresh that itās the lifestyle risks, financial ruin, getting robbed, overdose risk, but most of all; neglect: we neglected everything during the struggle, all the meals you skipped, people u stood up, calls u didnāt answer, workouts u skipped waiting for the dope manā¦
This. 100x I believe this.
I had a friend who was a completely dedicated heroin addict, he lived at home until he was 29, it was unspoken but his parents knew they were enabling but the other option was lose their son, eventually he did leave or was pushed out, we had his funeral on what wouldāve been his 31st bday His mom was weirdly matter of fact about it
I didnāt get sick one (noticeable) time from 18-27. I would get extra tired but no cough, sore throatā¦ none of that bullshit.
Definitely a feature.
Same here. Rarely ever get sick while family members are sick constantly. My theory is that by using nasally, you are probably exposing yourself constantly to a little bit of germs/bacteria and thus developing an immunity to things. Imagine how much stuff your dope comes into contact with before you ingest it. (Also, this is just a single anecdotal account & could be that I just don't notice as much as others like someone else mentioned)
Mate this is amazing point. I didnāt sniff exclusively but I did sniff a lot.
haha ive noticed this too.. i used to get bronchitis or whatever it was every winter.. been on dope since 2002 and aside from the times i was dopesick, i havent had so much as a sniffle in over 20 years. you are not crazy.
Thx for being open & honest
Yes! They help my depression so much! Iām prescribed 5 mg 3 times a day of hydrocodone.
You do get sick you just donāt notice it because high as a kite u kno
Not true for most responsible individuals
Iād say for majority of my use I wasnāt āhighā I was just maintaining. Edit: this is where addicts get a bad rap from the media. The majority of us arenāt strung out nodding all day. We lead quite functional lives (at least on the outside)
Yah. Itās the addict behavior that comes from chasing the high that leads to that ājunkieā stereotype. Most physically dependent people donāt do that. I loved oxy and H but those were not financially viable and then when fent start getting introduced into everything back around 2010, I decided it was time for me to quit. Then I discovered poppy tea and it allowed me to live a nice productive life. It was cheap, easy to get, easy to always do a test dose of each new batch of pods or seeds to determine the strength, and eliminated having to deal with sketchy situations to maintain supply. Then too many people found out about it and the government pretty much closed that loophole. Good luck finding any active seeds or pods now. Luckily itās a plant. Plants are easy to grow.
Good stuff. Amazing how āpeopleā always F things up. I was just reminiscing the other day about the DNM and how easy it used to be. Now itās nothing but scams. Anything that gets popular gets ruined.
I can see where you are coming from. I'm sure people have said this already but your body is weaker during withdrawal because its fighting the synptoms so hard. So you are more susceptable to illness
Valid comment.
I primarily stick to kratom and I believe there is some research that says it boosts immune function. I noticed i donāt get sick often even as those around me do, or i feel the beginnings of sickness but it almost never progresses beyond very minor symptoms and goes away in a day or two. But I did also get covid twice, also not everyone develops symptomatic infection from covid, maybe you were a carrier instead ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ. There is research on more traditional opioids that suggest immunomodulation. Like in some metrics they appear to suppress immune function but may alter or even improve it in other metrics. The jury is very much still out on how exactly opioids affect immune functioning overall. But your body is under pretty intense duress when coming off opioids. Even if you are no longer feeling withdrawal symptoms, i think your body may be much more vulnerable to infection as its spending resources restoring homeostasis instead of maintaining the immune system. However, opioids are like the perfect sickness medication. They cover up a ton of symptoms of common colds and flus. They suppress cough, they relieve pain from body aches, they help you sleep easier, they ease malaise by just making you feel better and more comfortable, and they can plug up diarrhea. They are only really counterproductive in dealing with nausea and I donāt think they will help much with congestion or fever. However you may not even notice cuz youāre cozy enough from the opioids anyways lol.
I definitely feel like there's something to this, I had a very similar experience and would talk about this with other people.
I mean look at the comments. Itās definitely valid.
I know exactly what you mean but the longer I went the more I increasingly assumed that I just didn't feel it š¤š But at same time that might apply to mild illnesses with minor symptoms plus the obvious cough suppressive action of opioids in general let alone strongest ones like heroin. But moderate to severe illnesses I definately think you'd feel regardless, even just a true flu (influenza) or moderate and severe covid for example. And I didn't get sick with either since decades while on opioids, so I still wonder the exact same thing (whether opioids have some kind of protective action and/or whether it's at least partially due to my completely fucked nasal mucosa which is more or less non existent (as in that viruses have a much harder time to dock onto cells in nose compared to a healthy moist intact nasal mucosa). Anyhow, I use opioids since ca 30 years and last time I was really sick was influenza about 25 years ago - no idea whether related or not. To be fair though I also have to mention that since Covid, I was very careful and until vaccines and post Delta didn't go inside venues maskless and since Omicron I still wear N95 mask when incidences are high i.e. mainly winter and in confined inside spaces with many people for extended periods of time, for example in train on commute in the cold weather months. So that surely also was a big factor why I didn't get sick even in the last 4 covid years. But still, normally should have caught C19 at least once because since ca. summer 2022, I don't mask even in winter when incidences ultra high in my work place which is inside Office with approx 50 people in a large inside open Office room. To your Q whether heroin is good, what definately applies to all clean aka pharm versions of opioids is that they don't harm any organs or are otherwise toxic like many other much weaker and even OTC meds (yes they make you addicted as hell and all other aspects we all know, but they are very special and "good" drugs in terms of direct harm to Organs and toxicity, which is why Borroughs rightly said when using pure clean opioids you can get 90 years old and many other tolerated common drugs like tobacco let alone alcohol are MUCH more damaging to health).
Thanks for sharing your experience. Thereās something to it. What or why it is Iām not that smart. š¤£āļøā¤ļø
Welcome mate and agreed, ultimately I have no clue either all just guessing. But I just remembered another very interesting fact regarding this topic: In the Swiss pharm heroin clinic/centers, they worried very much that their clients aka addicts would be very high risk for severe covid due to bad health and many with damaged lungs, COPD etc. So they did everything to minimize Covid infection risk by various measures incl. more generous take home rules so that clients were less exposed thru travelling and when at center. One year into pandemic, once they had experience and data from patients i.e. how many infected, how many severe when infected and how many died, the result surprised them hugely: instead of expected higher risk i.e. higher share that develop severe covid or even die, the opposite was the case: their clients had BELOW average/normal healthier population share of severe cases, deaths, etc. They tried to come up with possible explanations but failed to do so - no ideas or solid theories as to the why, only the fact that the case. They to this day Phrase it as "baffled" I mention this because it perfectly fits into the theory and topic of this thread ššŖš
Thats something that users have said forever - when youāre strung out you donāt seem to get common colds, flu, etc. You should read some William Burroughs. He believed that addicts could live longer than non addicts because of the cellular regeneration brought about through constant cycles of cold turkey and getting re-addicted. Very interesting stuff and he lived well into his 80s and was strung out for most of his adult life. I honestly think opiates would either have no effect, or might even be good for you, IF you had a steady supply that was free of other drugs, impurities etc. in that scenario, the world could be full of 99 year old dope fiends. Unfortunately the war on drugs fucked that up for all of us.
Interesting stuff. No doubt about the impure supply mate. Luckily we havenāt been affected by the tranq dope YET but I think itās only a matter of time. Iād have quit a long time ago if all we had was fent/zenes. Feel sorry for those coming up today. They may never know what pure H feels like.
I agree totally, never got sick and was in H and never got Covid eitherā¦ I also get sick as soon as I detox!
This is debatable because lots of people HAVE to hate and demonize the drug in order to attempt to get sober so you're never going to get honest feedback. Personally in my own anecdotal experience I never got sick, tired, or aged for almost a decade of daily usage, since I've been "in recovery" I've been falling to pieces in every way possible. They're absolutely good for you, just because certain people are incompetent and reckless its become this demonized terrible thing in everyone's minds now.
Interesting take. I donāt know if I can commit to āgoodā for you but they definitely arenāt as bad. *cough* *cough* looking at you alcohol.
lol i always felt like my drug use helped me too, ever since i been a poly drug user(4-5 years) iāve gotten sick on maybe 1 or 2 occasions. never got covid either.
Could be true because remember, heroin was OTC medicine for a cough suppressant back in the day.
Once I used opioids my whole life changed. My pain was under control. I was making money. I had my life back. Then the fucking Government told the doctors to stop treating people like me. Once I was ācut offā I continued to use. I know we are not aloud to source and itās all scammers out there but I wish I had the knowledge to use the web like others.
Itās really not that hard. If you have a bit of common sense and reading comprehension you can do it. Hardest thing nowadays is getting cash to crypto. All on ramps are getting squeezed.
Opiates are medicinal until you try to stop them. Then you get hit with all the sickness and pain that you had avoided when taking them. They could be āgoodā if taken in irregular doses for specific situations but thatās an almost impossible level of self control.
Yeah Iāve tried that method 50 or 60 times.
I find this too. Never caught covid and haven't had a cold/flu in years lol
IMO, Most definitely YES ! On seed tea (basically liquid Opium) for over 5 years now. Never get sick or ill. Had diagnostic blood & urine tests & diagnostic imaging on all major organs just recently. All good ! 52y/o M. Although it is a medical fact that long term CLEAN opiate use, in general, cause no significant harm to the human body. OD, tainted gear & unclean IV use is a totally different story though !
Absolutely, if we could all just have easy access to pharmaceutical opioids I bet you this fentanyl/nitazine/benzomidazole analog market would drop all the way down. But they wonāt give up the āwar on drugsā
As a drug addict, I can say this is some real drug addict logic
Here for you mate. š¤£āļøā¤ļøš¤
Whatās funny is there were times where my wife and one kid at the time would get sick and then couple days later I would start to get what they had. I would take my normal two 30ās then couple hours later I felt better and never got any more sick, almost like the opiates cured it. I always thought it was strange
Not strange mate. Itās a feature.
For 10 years while prescribed hydrocodon... never once got sick!
The evidence keeps stacking up.
Firmy believe dope either makes you not get sick besides dopesick of course or allows you to be sick and not feel it or maybe being dopesick is just so awful that by comparison being sick with like the flu isnt so bad i get sick all the fucking time when im clean and sober but other than wd never when im in active addiction As for dope being "good for you" id say its not good but i also wouldnt say its bad either literally every single problem ive had in my 13 or so years of active addiction has all came down to a lack of drugs as long as i have the drugs i have zero issues i visit and spend quality time with my friends and family am never nodded out or visibly fucked up i hold down full time employment pay my bills etc everything your average person does. The wheels all start to fall off when something beyond my control comes up like when my work had to shut down for a month due to the availability of certain materials we work with or my plug getting arrested or shot or something like that. I can hold my shit together just fine professionally personally and financially just need to drive an hour or 2 once a week and make it back home without ajy police interaction and as far as im aware ive never had any health issues from it Now the Suboxone that shit fucked me up when i had it and rotted every tooth out or my head in less than 3 years didnt even have any cavities prior to that and made me feel not so great but dope had become unavailable and i thought i needed to quit before i fucked my life up and kinda wish i had just kept doing dope Amd fentanyl and zenes i have no idea how thats guna effect me in the long run only difference so far as i have to use a lot more than i did with heroin and the early fent analogs like every 4 hours imstead of 3 or 4 times a day
Yup and i only get a flu or cold when im not using. My body literally needs opiates more than it needs sleep, food or anything else. Its scary.
I mean itās definitely a feature and not a bug.
Suppression of immune system doesnt mean a thing is healthy lol :D opiates crash testosterone levels as fuck so if youre a guy they are not so good. I can feel the difference immedeately when Im off.
Suppression of immune system would mean I get sick more not less no? And agree about testosterone and that sucks. Iām not justifying use Iām just pointing out my experience and it seems that quite a few other people share the same.
I dont know, but from the past when you think about Spanish flu for example, the people who were dying the most were strong guys with heavy immune reactions. So it kinda makes sense that you will get sick less when your immune system is suppressed in some cases, but I dont know. I have it the other way around when I was on opiates I was sick a lot of the times. But part of that was also that when I was on kratom I didnt give a shit about my body. Now I eat healthy, try to sleep healthy and take cold showers so theres that
Yeah, google cytokine storm and you see why strong immune reaction isnāt always good
Maybe because your on a drug that constantly makes you feel fucking great so you donāt even notice your sick
Opiates give me courage and help me cultivate yang. Until im on them too long and it lowers my T. The increased dopamine make them a great antipsychotic as well
lots of ppl say that but i have gotten sick on kratom and odsmt multiple times so idk. one time i ran out of stuff while being sick so that was fun lol
Nicotine protects you from the rona. Possibly associated.
Opiates suck man. Made me feel so much back pain. Also the constipation makes you feel like a bloated ball. If you can kick em, do it.
Iāve kicked. So far. But I donāt know if I can agree they suck.
yea man it does enhance ya immune system somehow. could be just cause you don't go many places when you are on dope, pretty safely quarantined while you wait for the next shot. Read junkie, Burroughs talks about the not getting sick part of dope use. pretty common
til of course you run out of dope and then you get more sick than anyone ever :)
Donāt go bet it all/on a pack of fentanyl
Did you get your energy back yet?
Iāve got energy. Just fāin insomnia. Canāt sleep more than 4 hrs in a row.
I got dopesick at least 20x more a year than I've ever had the flu and I'd rather have had COVID than dopesick. Soooo no? Lol
I swear bro i was around so many people with covid when i was on fentanyl and never got it. Also never caught the flu or even a common cold. My seasonal allergies even went away. So crazy
We probably all got sick with all kinds of things when we were using, just too high to feel it. You've only been clean for a short time so you're body is under a lot of stress as it adjusts to this new normal. It throws everything out of whack, so of course you're going to be more likely to get sick. I got clean with suboxone and I'm still taking it. But the first few years clean, I got sick as fuck twice a year. Covid probably was partly to blame, but I didn't eat a lot at first and didn't really take care of myself, so all that created an environment that made it easy to get sick. As your health returns, your immune system will get better. Just try to eat healthier and take care of yourself and things will get better.
You don't realize when you're when you're using because staying out of withdrawals comes above anything else so those flus and colds become secondary in your body
lmfao bruh
You still get sick, you just donāt feel it. I once fell down a stair on a lot of diazepam and a shit ton of oxys. I didnāt feel a thing until the next day when I experienced pain in my arm went to the ER and they told me I broke my arm that night. Opiates just opress pain, physical or psychological.
Well I started doing them heavily when I was 19/20 (dabbled as a young teen)...got high pretty much everyday from 20-23. Now i'm 25 and got mistaken for a high schooler. Now that i've been off the shit for 10+ months the high I get from being told I look so young despite spending my early 20s strung out on philly dope is *almost* as good as the rush from a bag of fetty/tranq party mix š
This sounds like a Rickyism from Trailer Park Boys lol
When I was addicted to oxycodone I never got ill. Also opioids are one of the least harmful drugs on your body along side shrooms etc. correct me if Iām wrong on that :). Obviously they can effect mental wellbeing but other than that yeah theyāre very easy on the body
Remember it is a business to doctors to get you to come backā¦ pain or not.
Wait. What? You are right sub bro? Did you ever get sick while on opis? That is the question. š¤
No manā¦ never. Just donāt over do it or give to anyone. If you can go natural go that way. Overdue it and your intestines start getting rigid.
heroin is definitely not keeping u healthyšš
People in the Netherlands get prescribed heroinš¤·āāļø
Not as easy as it sounds but admire there program. Along with Switzerland and Canada. Any steps toward safe supply is good. Wish other countries would follow
Ofc America could never Itās all about money over here
Australia š¦šŗ same
Bacteria and germs donāt want sick host they want healthy ones to steal nutrients from
One doesn't get sick when one gets dopesick.
Like when people go to jail, they get colds all the time but never while using.
He was an heroin for years and didnāt get sick until he stopped
For me I have brain injury and other injuries. The opiates definitely help me function and keep a clear head. I've had iq tests done while on opiates and I'm at 145ish. I drop to 115 while not using because of pain induced brain fog among other issues.
I don't know if they're good for you but dam do they ever feel good.
I don't know if they're good for you but dam do they ever feel good.
Yeah,I hardly ever get a flu ,been using for 29 years (methadone ) now, but I caught Covid-19,didn't feel that good,then i got a flu afterwards & the flu was worse than Covid-19,ive had covid once but ive got family that have had it up to 5 times now,& im not having anymore of the so called vaccination or booster shots,iff it was a vaccination ppl wouldn't catch it more than once
This is the most brain dead junkie take Iāve ever heard. Your immune system wasnāt able to function when you were using. Now itās trying to stabilize itself.
shut up lol.
š
Lol ya immune system prolly working 10x overdrive to fight off the hepatitis pins you were sharing šš
Itās in your headš¤¦āāļø
Definitely not in head . Responsible use