> Note to self: Find a job focused on outcomes and accomplishments, not time spent completing them.
I don't get these jobs.
It's like "GRRR /u/Far_Pig did the projects in 4 hours this week. But I want them to needlessly also work the 36 other hours so that ???? "
Anything in the "????" is just most often times just useless nonsense or malaligned desire to work people in to the dirt so they know they are lesser.
It's just so silly. Why can't they just get a grip and be satisfied that they hired someone who does what they asked for and does it on time. Regardless of how they get from A to B its none of the employers concern yet they try to pull this crap.
No actually you are wrong. I get what you are trying to say and why you might think there should be a comma, but it’s actually the opposite. There is no comma in that saying. A comma would express what you think the lack of comma expresses.
This is why hourly pay is absurd. You could be the best employee ever and complete faster than anyone else. Let’s say it took you 10 hours and takes most people 20 hours. So you are getting paid less than someone who doesn’t work as fast and skilled as you? Makes zero sense
Because the business logic is that you spent four hours doing that project, the other 36 could be spent on another project, providing even more value to the company.
Fair enough. But compensation then should be tied to each project you work on. An aggregated value that you are providing the company, should have aggregated compensation.
Bad managers who don't understand the job the people under them are doing and think they need to find busy work.
My current supervisor shat on all our winter projects so we could do his busy work and he's going to find out here in about a month why we were focused on the other things before he send everyone on wild goose chases.
Yep same. My team had three massive wins that are transformational to our business and he's dinging me because I didn't fill out his new Jira bullshit "the right way"
Even then...
Knowing how to do the work IS important. But getting it done correctly, even if it's shit luck, is often acceptable. I've worked with more than one person who "failed upwards." And they know it. A couple have said to me (a person I worked with and a friend in another industry) that they had no idea HOW they got their promotion, but they did.
That is, they got the work done, but they felt they didn't know exactly HOW they did it. They weren't able to explain it (showing their work).
So, yeah, if your job is explaining the work, you need to be able to show how to do it. But if your job is DOING the work, you just need to be able to get the final answer - the steps you took to get there often aren't important.
I had the opportunity to get some insight on that. We had a manager promoted to some obscure (but still higher) position simply because the rest of the competent managers didn't want to deal with him anymore. They couldn't get him fired because he had really good connections and was great at keeping the real important relationships up the chain.
Yes, there's that too. Be good enough that you don't get fired, but bad enough that no one wants to deal with you. That might get you a promotion.
Or, like Milton, a new office in "Storage B" in the basement.
Bro, at “these jobs” the projects are endless. They are designed so you don’t ever “finish”.
Honestly most jobs are that way?! Even my first job as a kid was like “If you don’t have anything else to do, clean.”
That’s just the way it do be.
> “If you don’t have anything else to do, clean.”
I had this only when I worked minimum wage. At a gas station they wanted you 100% doing something if nothing to do then walk around with a wet rag 100% wiping stuff during that time until there is something to do.
But as my pay has risen people don't outright disrespect you like that I find. They see you as a human at least to some degree (albeit it may be less than we see ourselves). Minimum wage people a lot of people like actual slaves, sometimes higher pay too if people let it happen.
This is the weird part. Weirder than you first think. I'll draw a direct analogue from car mechanic world:
junior car mechanic doesn't yet have experience to do things fast so he can't accomplish much and as a result doesn't generate as much revenue and has lighter paycheck.
Say a senior car mechanic does an hours job in 15 minutes, but bills an hour and gets paid an hour even if he can do 4 such "hours" in one realtime hour. He's the expert and gets paid accordingly. He doesn't have to do 4 times the work if he doesn't want to because everything is billed per hour anyway and company gets the money no matter if they guy takes 1 hour or 4 hours to do four 1 hour jobs.
It wouldn't make any sense to try to watch the guy wrenching for 8 hours precisely every day.
If the only way to tell someone is not working (or working) is by checking their keystrokes, then the problem is far more serious than employees faking keystrokes to appear to be working.
Only in USA does this work. Every Asian country forces spyware and has logic built into to determine if your simulating work or just shooting the shits
This is the same Wells Fargo that paid a measly $3bn fine in 2020 for creating fake accounts their customers never authorized. $3bn fine in the same year they made $79bn in profits, which is less than 4% of their profits.
Overemployed aside, WF has always been a POS bank to deal with and work for.
I worked in property law for a while. These guys were notorious for hiring someone, encouraging them to take out a home loan and then subsequently firing and repossessing the former employee’s property. They also were one of the hardest for debtors to work with to resolve foreclosures.
Shady af of them. During the financial crisis my parents preemptively reached out to WF about needing help with the mortgage and the bastards *raised* it by a few hundred dollars somehow.
They probably re-amortized the loan, adding any missed payments to the end of the term. However, it could also be that the home value or taxes went up and they took advantage of that fact to recoup some money.
Edit: I can’t say 100% that it was intentionally malicious, but it did happen way more with them than anyone else.
> hiring someone, encouraging them to take out a home loan and then subsequently firing and repossessing the former employee’s property
Oh god. I hope nobody in Canada's Big 5 monopoly banks is reading this!
They also sold a ton of their mortgages to a shady company as well as some other banks. It was mortgages that were nearly paid off and also mortgages that had modifications. Shitty of them.
It's funny working in banking because there is a universal eyeroll whenever WF comes up. It doesn't matter what they do, I don't think they will ever garner respect, especially from employees.
Wells Fargo jammed overselling products down their employees throats to the point where employees would puke in trash cans under their desks from the stress. [Here’s](https://www.npr.org/2016/10/04/496508361/former-wells-fargo-employees-describe-toxic-sales-culture-even-at-hq) just one of the podcasts covering how shitty of a place it is to work.
I worked at Wells Fargo as a credit analyst for a 1.5 years. Can confirm it’s a POS company. Got out as soon as I could due to sketchy things. I could go on for weeks about horror stories. I’m 100% not surprised they did this.
They also didn’t receive bailout funds for themselves so much as to cover the losses for the failed banks that they took over that the gov didn’t want to see collapse (Wachovia being the largest).
Just read the article. WFC must actively monitor all employees to find that out.
I can only work when work is available, so I use the mouse jiggler to keep the screen from locking.
Says WFC is against unethical practices. What’s unethical about me jiggling my mouse to prevent the Lock Screen, so i would know when actionable communication comes in?
This is so intrusive and micromanaging, it’s not a good optics.
And yet they are repeatedly fined for 'unethical' practices by the government.
[https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines)
The irony is not lost on me.
Standard ‘rule for thee, not for me’ practice
It would be hilarious if someone had the balls to ask the question if they ever have CEO town hall meetings. “[sir/ma’am] can you please explain how WF reconciles the firing of workers for ‘unethical practices’ while continually being fined by the government for committing unethical practices”
I get random huddles from Slack from people at work. We're also required to keep our screen on a 15-minute lock. So if I get a random huddle while I'm away from my desk for 15+ minutes, I have to sign in and go through security to get to the huddle, which can take me several minutes.
I don't use a mouse jiggler. But if I did want to mechanically move my mouse, I'd use an arduino, servo motor, and lever arm or several. That way I can make the mouse move how I want at sufficiently random intervals. For the same price as a jiggler and an hour of programming, I can get better artificial movement than a jiggler.
Indeed. Dongles can be easily detected, also.
You can plug your dongles into a battery pack like this one so they can't be detected:
[https://www.amazon.com/LOVELEDI-Portable-Charger-Power-Bank-15000mAh-Compatible-Smartphones/dp/B0CF3WGHWN/ref=sr\_1\_4?sr=8-4](https://www.amazon.com/LOVELEDI-Portable-Charger-Power-Bank-15000mAh-Compatible-Smartphones/dp/B0CF3WGHWN/ref=sr_1_4?sr=8-4)
I recently bought [this one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P7746WR?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) that’s powered by a AA battery and is supposed to last a year. It’s worked great so far
>away from my desk for 15+ minutes, I have to sign in and go through security to get to the huddle, which can take me several minutes.
Why does unlocking your computer take several minutes?
Because I have to sign in, wait for the desktop shit to load (30+ seconds), sign into Okta, verify with the code, find wherever the huddle is coming from, then enter the huddle. Usually it takes me 1-2 minutes
They claim the short lock screen times are for "security". But you know it's because they want to be able to detect when you're away from the keyboard. This is why they don't like the mouse jigglers.
No it's for security and your comment shows you have no background in computer security, or seemingly common sense.
Inactivity locks is a universal standard for security of computer systems across the world and has been for literally decades. Just because a thing may also have a side benefit of also preventing some other undesirable behavior (from the employer's pov) doesn't make it the primary impetus.
I had a brief contract at Wells Fargo. 38 hours per week were spent in dumb meetings that should have been an email. It was a culture of incredible inefficiency, legacy boomer stuff. And yes, you had to use a dedicated device, and it was assumed to be monitored 24/7.
WF is a bizarre place. They do pay well for tech, and I interviewed there a few times, but it was a huge dumpster fire. They are also overflowing with boomer culture. I just ignore their recruiter messages now.
Worked at WF for a few years - had a halfway decent experience.
Pay was better than most retail banks. Workload was manageable with 10-15 hours of solid effort a week. Only a few meetings on top of that too.
Has a reputation for being evil, but I never really saw any of that. Mostly just a hugely bureaucratic bank with a lot of very disengaged people but that was great for me as all I wanted was a solid paycheck.
YMMV but I think experiences are heavily team and org dependent within such a huge company (200k+ employees).
Whatever metric they decide to incentivize is the one they'll get increased. Like why can't they just reward getting shit done?
Wikipedia: [Cobra Effect (Perverse Incentive)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive)
*The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdotal occurrence in India during British rule. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.*
My guess would be mangers flagged low performers, then reviewed the screen recording of those computers.
At the start of 2024, the WF CEO announced they were earmarking 1 billion dollars for upcoming severances for 2024, and that they were planning massive lay offs because there hasn't been enough quitting or retiring. They basically said their aggressive RTO strategy was to encourage people to quit. They've always randomly recorded screens as well. So this is not surprising to me at all.
There's new software that detects this behavior. It takes screenshots of your desktop and makes comparisons and makes some logical assumptions. Like if 99%+ of your screen is the same as the last 100 screenshots, and there's no keyboard activity, then you're likely fucking about.
I was hoping to find a comment on how to subvert it here.
It sounds like these were employees within a specific line of business who were faking system activity using an unauthorized tool.
If you read the article it doesn’t come right out and say it, but it doesn’t sound like it’s just a standard plug-in mouse jiggler is what got them fired.
Wells Fuckhole strikes again.
When they took over my old bank, Wachovia, it turned into a hot steaming pile of shit. After a few months, we closed the account -- and it was nothing but a headache. For over a year, we had to fight with them since they didn't fucking do their job right.
Then I learned more about ye ol' stagecoach company...and they can run themselves right off a cliff for all I care.
Doesn't surprise me one fucking bit they prioritize looking busy over actual productivity.
I work hybrid for a large bank and use a physical mouse jiggler at home and in the office because otherwise my computer goes to sleep and I have to re-enter the “16 digit alpha-numeric password that includes UPPER CASE, lower case, numerals, and special characters.” My role is salaried and I am a top performer - not everything I do is on the PC!! . Always lock my screen when away from my desk.
>16 digit alpha-numeric password that includes UPPER CASE, lower case, numerals, and special characters
"I love my 1 job." Easy 😉
>My role is salaried and I am a top performer - not everything I do is on the PC!!
Not sure how this has any bearing on their need to safeguard their systems and data?
>Always lock my screen when away from my desk.
Just because you do doesn't mean everyone does, although something tells me this isn't true
Don’t understand your first comment - my “1 job” isn’t typing passwords. The PC is a tool; when I am talking to a customer or co-worker about a complex issue and turn to my PC for reference data and realize that it is now locked my performance suffers. A facial recognition feature could easily resolve this and would likely be more secure than a password. Data security is a balancing act between security and system utility.
Charlie Shart is a piece of shit CEO who doesn’t give a shit about his employees. Cutting staff in branches to bare bones to increase margins and keep them understaffed. Wait times at my local branch are ridiculous. Go fuck yourself chainsaw Charlie
This is likely more due to the fact that these employees deal with sensitive financial information and the auto-jiggler mouse thing that keeps your computer from going idle is actual violating some security protocol. A lot of places require your computer to have an auto lock idle timer set on it and the mouse mover bypasses that.
If ur company installed software like JAMF or Crowdstrike or ZScalar, know that they are monitoring you. So, if ur machines goes into screensaver mode or sleep, they would know.
I use lots of "mouse coordinate" automation to interface between websites and our own software where it's not possible to use API's. I'm not "faking work", I'm getting it done with 0 errors and record time. But....maybe there's more to this article
Only in USA does this work. Every Asian country forces spyware and has logic built-in to determine if you’re simulating work or just shooting the shits
And for the record, I don’t think anyone seriously involved in this community suggests you should get 3 jobs and fuck around while working. I have never seen that suggestion at least. If you take a second job do the work. It may be that you cannot be stellar at both jobs, but you can do at the very least what you are being paid for.
There are people like this advertising OE... no wonder employers are getting suspicious and starting to track sth as stupid as keystrokes to measure work being done.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8F7Dz1tRlq/?igsh=YjI0ejQ5MTlkYjMy
The workforce law states you must be compensated for 40 hours at the rate you agreed upon no matter the most or least amount of hours worked.
Themselves the breaks companies. You don’t get to work us 100 hours a week and pay for 40. I can generate 40 hours worth of productivity in 10 hours. So I can do what I want the next 30.
I wonder if they monitor the VPs and above key strokes because they are the ones who OE the most and aren’t productive. Thats why companies reorg every quarter because of leadership not doing their job
When I decided to retire with a lump sum payment, I had a car loan with Wells Fargo. They wouldn’t let me pay them more than $4999 at a time. Fortunately, I was far enough along that paying them off only took two payments.
You mean the mouse? My company systems won’t allow me to install wireless
Unless you’re talking about the jiggler which mine doesn’t
I didn’t know plug in ones existed
Hard to say what went on just from what’s in the article.
I’ve worked my entire career in banking & the fact that they fired a bunch of people in a very specific part of the bank suggests that the people they fired were using an unauthorized tool they installed themselves or trying to fake activity on a specific system they are supposed to be actively using in their role.
I don’t think a regular ol mouse jiggler that only being used to keep the screensaver from popping up was to blame in this situation but I could be wrong.
Do you work at Wells Fargo? Do you want to? No? Then carry on. A dozen God damn people.
They have THOUSANDS of employees. Clearly, it's a scare tactic.
I think these guys got caught because they were using jigglers that could be detected (probably software or USB based). I never us that stuff, always have the jiggler totally independent from your machine.
It was a dozen employees out of over 200k employees. I would call this a rampant problem for either Wells Fargo or the employees.
I think if employers really wanted to solve this issue for themselves they would stop paying salaries and move more employees to hourly. Granted many of the best wouldn't apply for that job but at least the argument that you are paid for output rather than time would be solved.
Employers get mediocre employees who show of 40 hours a week and employees just need to show up to get paid.
Isn’t the whole deal that companies don’t know how to define roles well? So they see any conduct that looks like “not work” as a problem rather than sizing the work appropriately?
This sub really needs to be deleted. The more known OE is, the more companies are going to start shelling out money to monitor you. They don’t care about productivity, they care about you playing by the rules.
Note to self: Find a job focused on outcomes and accomplishments, not time spent completing them.
> Note to self: Find a job focused on outcomes and accomplishments, not time spent completing them. I don't get these jobs. It's like "GRRR /u/Far_Pig did the projects in 4 hours this week. But I want them to needlessly also work the 36 other hours so that ???? " Anything in the "????" is just most often times just useless nonsense or malaligned desire to work people in to the dirt so they know they are lesser. It's just so silly. Why can't they just get a grip and be satisfied that they hired someone who does what they asked for and does it on time. Regardless of how they get from A to B its none of the employers concern yet they try to pull this crap.
Hurt people hurt people.
Dude, you need a comma in there lol otherwise it sounds like you really want to hurt people
No actually you are wrong. I get what you are trying to say and why you might think there should be a comma, but it’s actually the opposite. There is no comma in that saying. A comma would express what you think the lack of comma expresses.
What about an exclamation point
Hurt people! Hurt people! 😈
Hate to hurt the purple heart people.
Why aren’t more people laughing at this 😂😂😂
Because they haven’t seen Bullet Train
I was trying to make everyone aware that people who have been hurt in the past are now undergoing emotional distress.... Hurt people hurt, people!
This one cracked me up
I disagree, it should be Hurt-People hurt people
Maybe hurt, people, hurt, people,?
I want to downvote you for being so hilariously wrong, but I feel bad downvoting someone for just having poor critical reading skills
This is why hourly pay is absurd. You could be the best employee ever and complete faster than anyone else. Let’s say it took you 10 hours and takes most people 20 hours. So you are getting paid less than someone who doesn’t work as fast and skilled as you? Makes zero sense
Because the business logic is that you spent four hours doing that project, the other 36 could be spent on another project, providing even more value to the company.
Fair enough. But compensation then should be tied to each project you work on. An aggregated value that you are providing the company, should have aggregated compensation.
Bad managers who don't understand the job the people under them are doing and think they need to find busy work. My current supervisor shat on all our winter projects so we could do his busy work and he's going to find out here in about a month why we were focused on the other things before he send everyone on wild goose chases.
Yep same. My team had three massive wins that are transformational to our business and he's dinging me because I didn't fill out his new Jira bullshit "the right way"
>he's dinging me because I didn't fill out his new Jira bullshit "the right way" LMAO 😂.
YoU mUsT sHoW yOuR wOrK tO rEcEiVe CrEdIt /s just in case
Even then... Knowing how to do the work IS important. But getting it done correctly, even if it's shit luck, is often acceptable. I've worked with more than one person who "failed upwards." And they know it. A couple have said to me (a person I worked with and a friend in another industry) that they had no idea HOW they got their promotion, but they did. That is, they got the work done, but they felt they didn't know exactly HOW they did it. They weren't able to explain it (showing their work). So, yeah, if your job is explaining the work, you need to be able to show how to do it. But if your job is DOING the work, you just need to be able to get the final answer - the steps you took to get there often aren't important.
I had the opportunity to get some insight on that. We had a manager promoted to some obscure (but still higher) position simply because the rest of the competent managers didn't want to deal with him anymore. They couldn't get him fired because he had really good connections and was great at keeping the real important relationships up the chain.
Yes, there's that too. Be good enough that you don't get fired, but bad enough that no one wants to deal with you. That might get you a promotion. Or, like Milton, a new office in "Storage B" in the basement.
You might even get your own private elevator going down to the deepest depths of the earth lol
That’s why it’s important to have an annual salary listed so when they bitch at you about 40hrs say, that’s not in my hiring agreement.
Then they respond, “You’re at-will, you will do what we say or get lost”
Bro, at “these jobs” the projects are endless. They are designed so you don’t ever “finish”. Honestly most jobs are that way?! Even my first job as a kid was like “If you don’t have anything else to do, clean.” That’s just the way it do be.
> “If you don’t have anything else to do, clean.” I had this only when I worked minimum wage. At a gas station they wanted you 100% doing something if nothing to do then walk around with a wet rag 100% wiping stuff during that time until there is something to do. But as my pay has risen people don't outright disrespect you like that I find. They see you as a human at least to some degree (albeit it may be less than we see ourselves). Minimum wage people a lot of people like actual slaves, sometimes higher pay too if people let it happen.
This is the weird part. Weirder than you first think. I'll draw a direct analogue from car mechanic world: junior car mechanic doesn't yet have experience to do things fast so he can't accomplish much and as a result doesn't generate as much revenue and has lighter paycheck. Say a senior car mechanic does an hours job in 15 minutes, but bills an hour and gets paid an hour even if he can do 4 such "hours" in one realtime hour. He's the expert and gets paid accordingly. He doesn't have to do 4 times the work if he doesn't want to because everything is billed per hour anyway and company gets the money no matter if they guy takes 1 hour or 4 hours to do four 1 hour jobs. It wouldn't make any sense to try to watch the guy wrenching for 8 hours precisely every day.
If the only way to tell someone is not working (or working) is by checking their keystrokes, then the problem is far more serious than employees faking keystrokes to appear to be working.
Only in USA does this work. Every Asian country forces spyware and has logic built into to determine if your simulating work or just shooting the shits
Only two places in the world, USA and Asia
Note to self: operate my own business instead of someone elses.
It is always so so weird to me that this isn’t default everyone’s approach.
This is the same Wells Fargo that paid a measly $3bn fine in 2020 for creating fake accounts their customers never authorized. $3bn fine in the same year they made $79bn in profits, which is less than 4% of their profits. Overemployed aside, WF has always been a POS bank to deal with and work for.
I worked in property law for a while. These guys were notorious for hiring someone, encouraging them to take out a home loan and then subsequently firing and repossessing the former employee’s property. They also were one of the hardest for debtors to work with to resolve foreclosures.
Shady af of them. During the financial crisis my parents preemptively reached out to WF about needing help with the mortgage and the bastards *raised* it by a few hundred dollars somehow.
They probably re-amortized the loan, adding any missed payments to the end of the term. However, it could also be that the home value or taxes went up and they took advantage of that fact to recoup some money. Edit: I can’t say 100% that it was intentionally malicious, but it did happen way more with them than anyone else.
> hiring someone, encouraging them to take out a home loan and then subsequently firing and repossessing the former employee’s property Oh god. I hope nobody in Canada's Big 5 monopoly banks is reading this!
They also sold a ton of their mortgages to a shady company as well as some other banks. It was mortgages that were nearly paid off and also mortgages that had modifications. Shitty of them.
It's funny working in banking because there is a universal eyeroll whenever WF comes up. It doesn't matter what they do, I don't think they will ever garner respect, especially from employees.
I closed my credit card and my checking/savings with them after watching the episode on Wells Fargo on Netflix 'Dirty Money'.
Wells Fargo jammed overselling products down their employees throats to the point where employees would puke in trash cans under their desks from the stress. [Here’s](https://www.npr.org/2016/10/04/496508361/former-wells-fargo-employees-describe-toxic-sales-culture-even-at-hq) just one of the podcasts covering how shitty of a place it is to work.
They are shady AF and have a terrible reputation. Bank anywhere else.
I worked at Wells Fargo as a credit analyst for a 1.5 years. Can confirm it’s a POS company. Got out as soon as I could due to sketchy things. I could go on for weeks about horror stories. I’m 100% not surprised they did this.
A fine of 4% of annual profits sounds pretty significant
Wells Fargo received $25bn in bailout funds from the taxpayers during the 2008 financial crisis, for reference.
…and paid it all back the next year (2009), with a total return to the government of $1.44 billion. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BM2U7/
They also didn’t receive bailout funds for themselves so much as to cover the losses for the failed banks that they took over that the gov didn’t want to see collapse (Wachovia being the largest).
Agreed that Wells Fargo sucks, and that the scandal was despicable. But, I think you’re referring to revenue, not profits.
Just read the article. WFC must actively monitor all employees to find that out. I can only work when work is available, so I use the mouse jiggler to keep the screen from locking.
Says WFC is against unethical practices. What’s unethical about me jiggling my mouse to prevent the Lock Screen, so i would know when actionable communication comes in? This is so intrusive and micromanaging, it’s not a good optics.
And yet they are repeatedly fined for 'unethical' practices by the government. [https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/well-fargo-fines) The irony is not lost on me.
Standard ‘rule for thee, not for me’ practice It would be hilarious if someone had the balls to ask the question if they ever have CEO town hall meetings. “[sir/ma’am] can you please explain how WF reconciles the firing of workers for ‘unethical practices’ while continually being fined by the government for committing unethical practices”
Dick suckers
I get random huddles from Slack from people at work. We're also required to keep our screen on a 15-minute lock. So if I get a random huddle while I'm away from my desk for 15+ minutes, I have to sign in and go through security to get to the huddle, which can take me several minutes. I don't use a mouse jiggler. But if I did want to mechanically move my mouse, I'd use an arduino, servo motor, and lever arm or several. That way I can make the mouse move how I want at sufficiently random intervals. For the same price as a jiggler and an hour of programming, I can get better artificial movement than a jiggler.
A more secure one too. Although chances are low that off-the-shelf juggler dongles have something malicious programmed in, the chances aren't zero.
Indeed. Dongles can be easily detected, also. You can plug your dongles into a battery pack like this one so they can't be detected: [https://www.amazon.com/LOVELEDI-Portable-Charger-Power-Bank-15000mAh-Compatible-Smartphones/dp/B0CF3WGHWN/ref=sr\_1\_4?sr=8-4](https://www.amazon.com/LOVELEDI-Portable-Charger-Power-Bank-15000mAh-Compatible-Smartphones/dp/B0CF3WGHWN/ref=sr_1_4?sr=8-4)
I recently bought [this one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P7746WR?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) that’s powered by a AA battery and is supposed to last a year. It’s worked great so far
Yeah they're awesome. I use mine constantly. Plus they are helpful to have in case you need an emergency USB power supply
Why would you run a device at your desk off a battery when you have wall power?
You can plug an Arduino directly into a power outlet if you want to. Let me know how that goes
>away from my desk for 15+ minutes, I have to sign in and go through security to get to the huddle, which can take me several minutes. Why does unlocking your computer take several minutes?
Because I have to sign in, wait for the desktop shit to load (30+ seconds), sign into Okta, verify with the code, find wherever the huddle is coming from, then enter the huddle. Usually it takes me 1-2 minutes
They claim the short lock screen times are for "security". But you know it's because they want to be able to detect when you're away from the keyboard. This is why they don't like the mouse jigglers.
No it's for security and your comment shows you have no background in computer security, or seemingly common sense. Inactivity locks is a universal standard for security of computer systems across the world and has been for literally decades. Just because a thing may also have a side benefit of also preventing some other undesirable behavior (from the employer's pov) doesn't make it the primary impetus.
When has wells cared about optics…
Did never really ever happen?
If this was the worst optics for Wells Fargo, they would be ecstatic
Does your workplace track screen locks? Is this common?
Nope. They don't track anything. If they did, I'd have been let go years ago lol.
Ha! So why the mouse jiggler?
screen lock when idle. i hate re entering my passwords over and over. open screen allows me to more quickly track and respond to emails and IM's
Got it. So you used for unrelated reasons.
Yep. Nothing nefarious
I had a brief contract at Wells Fargo. 38 hours per week were spent in dumb meetings that should have been an email. It was a culture of incredible inefficiency, legacy boomer stuff. And yes, you had to use a dedicated device, and it was assumed to be monitored 24/7.
WF is a bizarre place. They do pay well for tech, and I interviewed there a few times, but it was a huge dumpster fire. They are also overflowing with boomer culture. I just ignore their recruiter messages now.
Yeah. I literally shipped nothing before I quit after 3 months, but I don’t know that I’d do that again. Too annoying g.
Worked at WF for a few years - had a halfway decent experience. Pay was better than most retail banks. Workload was manageable with 10-15 hours of solid effort a week. Only a few meetings on top of that too. Has a reputation for being evil, but I never really saw any of that. Mostly just a hugely bureaucratic bank with a lot of very disengaged people but that was great for me as all I wanted was a solid paycheck. YMMV but I think experiences are heavily team and org dependent within such a huge company (200k+ employees).
It's wild that the only way to measure employee job performance is with keyboard activity lol
It's the most boomer work culture I've ever experienced.
Whatever metric they decide to incentivize is the one they'll get increased. Like why can't they just reward getting shit done? Wikipedia: [Cobra Effect (Perverse Incentive)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive) *The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdotal occurrence in India during British rule. The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.*
So what, did they plug their mouse jigglers directly into their laptops? Otherwise how can then prove?
My guess would be mangers flagged low performers, then reviewed the screen recording of those computers. At the start of 2024, the WF CEO announced they were earmarking 1 billion dollars for upcoming severances for 2024, and that they were planning massive lay offs because there hasn't been enough quitting or retiring. They basically said their aggressive RTO strategy was to encourage people to quit. They've always randomly recorded screens as well. So this is not surprising to me at all.
There's new software that detects this behavior. It takes screenshots of your desktop and makes comparisons and makes some logical assumptions. Like if 99%+ of your screen is the same as the last 100 screenshots, and there's no keyboard activity, then you're likely fucking about. I was hoping to find a comment on how to subvert it here.
🤯
It sounds like these were employees within a specific line of business who were faking system activity using an unauthorized tool. If you read the article it doesn’t come right out and say it, but it doesn’t sound like it’s just a standard plug-in mouse jiggler is what got them fired.
I remember how Wells Fargo defrauded clients for years.
Pepperidge Farms remembers
Wells Fuckhole strikes again. When they took over my old bank, Wachovia, it turned into a hot steaming pile of shit. After a few months, we closed the account -- and it was nothing but a headache. For over a year, we had to fight with them since they didn't fucking do their job right. Then I learned more about ye ol' stagecoach company...and they can run themselves right off a cliff for all I care. Doesn't surprise me one fucking bit they prioritize looking busy over actual productivity.
I miss those automated terminals at Wachovia.
I feel like there's a "watch-over-ya" joke in there somewhere but I'm not good at jokes
Wells Fargo is fighting a losing battle here.
I work hybrid for a large bank and use a physical mouse jiggler at home and in the office because otherwise my computer goes to sleep and I have to re-enter the “16 digit alpha-numeric password that includes UPPER CASE, lower case, numerals, and special characters.” My role is salaried and I am a top performer - not everything I do is on the PC!! . Always lock my screen when away from my desk.
Our Infosec team lessened the password complexity requirements when they established MFA for every first login. It's been nice.
>16 digit alpha-numeric password that includes UPPER CASE, lower case, numerals, and special characters "I love my 1 job." Easy 😉 >My role is salaried and I am a top performer - not everything I do is on the PC!! Not sure how this has any bearing on their need to safeguard their systems and data? >Always lock my screen when away from my desk. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone does, although something tells me this isn't true
Don’t understand your first comment - my “1 job” isn’t typing passwords. The PC is a tool; when I am talking to a customer or co-worker about a complex issue and turn to my PC for reference data and realize that it is now locked my performance suffers. A facial recognition feature could easily resolve this and would likely be more secure than a password. Data security is a balancing act between security and system utility.
Yet another reason to boycott Wells Fargo.
Charlie Shart is a piece of shit CEO who doesn’t give a shit about his employees. Cutting staff in branches to bare bones to increase margins and keep them understaffed. Wait times at my local branch are ridiculous. Go fuck yourself chainsaw Charlie
His last name is really shart?
Close. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Scharf
Yet we never heard about the JP Morgan coke boats ever again 😂
This is likely more due to the fact that these employees deal with sensitive financial information and the auto-jiggler mouse thing that keeps your computer from going idle is actual violating some security protocol. A lot of places require your computer to have an auto lock idle timer set on it and the mouse mover bypasses that.
If ur company installed software like JAMF or Crowdstrike or ZScalar, know that they are monitoring you. So, if ur machines goes into screensaver mode or sleep, they would know.
I thought ZScaler didn’t facilitate monitoring of the screen or keystrokes! Wow
You’re correct, it does DNS sniffing.
ugh is that what JAMF is. im always closing it lol
You just listed random companies' unrelated products that have no common use cases...
I listed products that the company I work for have installed on our laptops.
It's likely the none of these people were OE. They were just defending themselves from intrusive work metrics that measure keystroke activity.
I use autohotkey scripts to wiggle mine on the reg. no one cares, because I get my work done.
Note to self. Next interview ask about how my work will be monitored: Will it be by time spent per day or work accomplished.
People not following basic rules. Smh! Also, ethical standards my ass. WF opened millions of accounts without consent, among other crimes.
Don’t even know how they are still a company in the first place… straight up criminal organization
I use lots of "mouse coordinate" automation to interface between websites and our own software where it's not possible to use API's. I'm not "faking work", I'm getting it done with 0 errors and record time. But....maybe there's more to this article
Only in USA does this work. Every Asian country forces spyware and has logic built-in to determine if you’re simulating work or just shooting the shits
Fires them for simulation of keyboard activity just for ai which is a simulation of keyboard activity to take over .. make it make sense
And for the record, I don’t think anyone seriously involved in this community suggests you should get 3 jobs and fuck around while working. I have never seen that suggestion at least. If you take a second job do the work. It may be that you cannot be stellar at both jobs, but you can do at the very least what you are being paid for.
There are people like this advertising OE... no wonder employers are getting suspicious and starting to track sth as stupid as keystrokes to measure work being done. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8F7Dz1tRlq/?igsh=YjI0ejQ5MTlkYjMy
I mean what do you expect?
Question is though, was the work being done? Like were the tasks that were assigned to them completed on time? If so, why does it matter?
You might be on to something. It would make sense that not getting shit done gets management to look at you more closely.
The workforce law states you must be compensated for 40 hours at the rate you agreed upon no matter the most or least amount of hours worked. Themselves the breaks companies. You don’t get to work us 100 hours a week and pay for 40. I can generate 40 hours worth of productivity in 10 hours. So I can do what I want the next 30.
Or just put on a YouTube video and say it's for research purposes. Watch something AI related and say you're brushing up on your skills.
I wonder if they monitor the VPs and above key strokes because they are the ones who OE the most and aren’t productive. Thats why companies reorg every quarter because of leadership not doing their job
When I decided to retire with a lump sum payment, I had a car loan with Wells Fargo. They wouldn’t let me pay them more than $4999 at a time. Fortunately, I was far enough along that paying them off only took two payments.
Dear WF, all those "unethical" employees you fired, most likely had 2 or 3 jobs each, so F \*&\^\*% You 
This is HR showing their value and commitment to destroying the company.
Scammers scamming scammers
How do I do this? All I have now is a mouse jiggler
Get one that doesn’t plug into your computer
You mean the mouse? My company systems won’t allow me to install wireless Unless you’re talking about the jiggler which mine doesn’t I didn’t know plug in ones existed
The jiggler. You get an independent jiggler that your mouse sits on and it won’t be detected.
Word, that’s what I have. Thanks for the input. When it said keyboard I thought they were talking about something hitting keys on the actual keyboard
Hard to say what went on just from what’s in the article. I’ve worked my entire career in banking & the fact that they fired a bunch of people in a very specific part of the bank suggests that the people they fired were using an unauthorized tool they installed themselves or trying to fake activity on a specific system they are supposed to be actively using in their role. I don’t think a regular ol mouse jiggler that only being used to keep the screensaver from popping up was to blame in this situation but I could be wrong.
I stopped working for banks. They have extra security, don't like OE, and force you to work at least hybrid.
Do you work at Wells Fargo? Do you want to? No? Then carry on. A dozen God damn people. They have THOUSANDS of employees. Clearly, it's a scare tactic.
I think these guys got caught because they were using jigglers that could be detected (probably software or USB based). I never us that stuff, always have the jiggler totally independent from your machine.
It was a dozen employees out of over 200k employees. I would call this a rampant problem for either Wells Fargo or the employees. I think if employers really wanted to solve this issue for themselves they would stop paying salaries and move more employees to hourly. Granted many of the best wouldn't apply for that job but at least the argument that you are paid for output rather than time would be solved. Employers get mediocre employees who show of 40 hours a week and employees just need to show up to get paid.
Wells Fargo deserves to be fleeced.
Isn’t the whole deal that companies don’t know how to define roles well? So they see any conduct that looks like “not work” as a problem rather than sizing the work appropriately?
This sub really needs to be deleted. The more known OE is, the more companies are going to start shelling out money to monitor you. They don’t care about productivity, they care about you playing by the rules.
They care about control. And yes, I have no idea why this sub exists.
Agree, delete this sub or make it private, either works
Nothing is ever going to change that, except maybe Armageddon.
LOL
Good
Good
I mean.. they weren't doing any work. Glad these companies are cracking down.
We must protect our precious Companies and Brands...
Poor performers ruin it for all of us, if you can't handle a single job, you shouldn't be working multiple.