This is one of those stories that are both hilarious & horrible.
“Spraying each other with waterbottles, like two gay cyclists” is an amazing sentence.
It's Oklahoma. Perceived dude on dude affection is anything but fine.
(I said in another thread that the pearl clutching accuser probably rails against snowflakes)
If you know Oklahoma, either one of the qualifiers earns you a fair bit of derision. both at the same time is just evil incarnate. The only thing that could top it is "gay vegan cyclist"
This is not at all what the issue really was. Stick with me a moment.
Americans simply don't accept nudity anywhere near the level others do. (I'm not defending this - it seems ludicrous to me, and intensely hypocritical). Of all places, OK would be one of the worst to be naked in public. If a guy across the street is seeing it - yeah, that'd be a problem in OK.
Again, that's not my idea of right / wrong, just trying to explain.
Also, the 'gay' bit is likely the OK cops, who are not ever going to be mistaken for intelligent, sophisticated people.
Last note for non-Americans: this is an example of why many of us feel frustrated when we are all assumed to have similar attitudes. We do not.
>OK would be one of the worst to be naked in public
........Last note for non-Americans: this is an example of why many of us feel frustrated when we are all assumed to have similar attitudes. We do not.
Case in point, the Freemont Solstice Parade in Seattle is famous for the naked bike ride.
It seems more likely that it was a part of the witness testimony they may have quoted in the arrest report, rather than the officer's judgement of the situation. But I guess we're all just assuming unless we get to see that report.
True. Will stand by: had he not gotten naked, no arrest. I'm sure the cops would've harassed them, but not taken them in.
Honestly, Oklahoma is a fucking backwater.
Some extra info: the reason they were 10 hours in jail is because processing payment of the bail took that long. Also some extra comments by Thomas Dekker from [the article on Wielerflits](https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/opmerkelijk-laurens-ten-dam-en-thomas-dekker-zaten-in-amerikaanse-cel-voor-unbound):
“I didn't dare do anything,” Dekker adds. “I had five people with guns around me while most have an IQ of a shrimp.” Ten Dam still tried to calm things down. “I thought, I might be able to rebut, but these people didn't listen to that.” And so Dekker and Ten Dam had to be taken to the station and even ended up behind bars. "I think it was a four-by-four place, with no windows and an iron toilet. A small sink, that was it."
The two Dutchmen were detained for “inappropriate behavior” in public spaces. "We were still given some food and were under a blanket, because we were cold by now. It all took a very long time and fingerprints were taken. We also had to put on an orange suit, we were really inmate Laurens and inmate Thomas. It's really not allowed there. It did clash with my values,” Dekker said.
Edit: due to comment below
The LGBT panic in much of the US is insane.
Your description reminds me of an old bit by Jeff Foxworthy (the you-might-be-a-redneck comedian) about the '96 Olympics in Atlanta.
Apparently they had the kayak competitions on the same river where they filmed Deliverance. His comment was: *"If Ned Beatty couldn't make it down that thing, a Frenchman in a pair of bicycle pants ain't got a chance.."*
[link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PKPfw5HoLg&t=208s)
It's so weird to me how much hate there is on social media for LGBT community. I feel like we're regressing as a society instead of improving.
Even in Belgium I have to avoid social media comments on this subject, they're all just so terrible.
Hé mentioned the gun in the podcast but not that the officers approached with guns drawn or anything. Think some nuance is getting lost in translation here.
Ok, so the comment says “five people with guns around me” instead of five guns pointed at me. I’m not saying they weren’t assholes and they certainly had the IQ of shrimp, but the guns were almost certainly holstered. There’s rampant homophobia and cops LOVE to pile on a public nudity call because they’re bored and want to check it out. That’s all true. Escalated police presence is a plague. But they would have said if there were guns drawn.
For a lot of Europeans, being surrounded by people with holstered guns is quite intimidating. In the UK, your average street cop isn’t carrying a lethal weapon. There are armed police in Europe but police shootings do not happen anywhere near as often.
Unfortunately the result of everyone owning a gun in the US is the police think every situation will threaten their lives, even if there’s no reason to think so
Believe me, I agree. And it’s very funny how the venn diagram for people who “support the police” and people who support firearm ownership is a single circle.
US police don't get trained much, high school diploma and a few weeks of training is all it takes in most places. But statistically speaking just about half the people they pull over have a weapon themselves so I understand why they do it faster than German cops, still crazy in this specific case.
Well in theory they have guns so they can defend themselves of others people who also have guns to defend themselves against even worse people that also might have guns.
They didn't stop thinking about it deep enough
True. The Dutch who initially settled there thought the Netherlands wasnt extreme and conservative enough for them, so they moved over to the Americas to spread their extremism. They are partially to blame for how insane they've become over there.
Yah it wasn't the Dutch; the Puritans were English people who fled to the Netherlands to escape religious persecution, but the Netherlands was too cosmopolitan and sinful for them.
Yeah, but lots of actual Dutch who settled in the US were also religious extremists. Their descendants mostly live in Western Michigan and Iowa now and are still super religious and conservative. There's still people in the Netherlands like that who stayed behind too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands)
Texas straight up to Canada is all super republican. Apart from this event or similar, I'd probably never choose to ride my bike in those areas. For reasons similar to this story. They don't take kindly to our type (cyclists).
Minnesota is largely east of Texas, especially the liberal parts. I believe what he meant when saying "Texas straight up to Canada" was the distinct column of states sitting right on top of each other, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas.
Makes sense if you're just going by longitude; in my head I always think of MN as north of TX because I-35 is the biggest north-south corridor in the middle of the country (to me at least, but maybe I'm biased). But I-35 absorbs I-29 before you hit DFW/Austin/San Antonio and goes from Canada to Mexico.
But also yeah, if it wasn't for the Twin Cities on the north end of that route, it would be very red. Minnesota also has a ton of actual good paved cycling trails.
>Texas straight up to Canada is all super republican.
It's what I thought, but didnt want to cross any democratic dependance that might be hidden there! Like an Austin or Dallas.
I guess a lot is gay if it isnt 4 wheels with a pick up
Nah, one of the best places in the US to ride a bike. Never had one bad interaction while in Austin and probably did somewhere around 24,000 km on Austin roads.
I live in Austin as well and sold my bike. You have to have grown up with this to be ok. If you didn't, and biked around Europe for most of your life, Austin roads feel like you're part of Mad Max.
> I dont know tbh!
>
> Im just a Dutch person who cycles.
I live near Seattle, one of the most liberal places in the entire US, but if you drive 20 minutes out of the main population corridor it's all super republican/conversative/maga flags. This pretty much sums up the US, the big/main cities are liberal (with a few exceptions) but once you get out of the main population core it's super conservative and often really racist/homophobic.
There’s a big race in Vermont, I think. That one is probably safeish. But unfortunately gravel happens in rural areas and the more rural, generally the more conservative.
Saudi Arabia LOVES gay cyclists....check how much money they give Jayco AlUla, although you can't spray your mate with bidons ain't no water in the desert.
> Thomas Dekker has been arrested
Figures. No surprise there
> The charge stated that we sprayed each other with water bottles as two gay cyclists
Ah, Oklahoma. Where the 18th century isn't history, it's happening right now
They made the right choice of not trying to reason with the cops.. American cops are so jaded they’ll escalate any situation for any reason if things don’t go exactly like they expect.
There are three types of cops in the US for the most part.
1. Bullies (see also racists, homophobes, etc.)
2. Those who are jaded but stay on the force
3. Ex-cops
Bullies are sadly incredibly common. The old saying is that _the biggest difference between a cop and a criminal is that one has a badge_. Many people get into law enforcement because of the power it gives them over other people.
The jaded (aka cowards) probably makes up the majority of cops. They know that there are plenty of bad apples around them but they've become numb, don't care, or don't have the guts to do something about it. I tend to lump them in with the bullies because "This is a Nazi bar now"^1.
The ex-cops are the ones who aren't numb, do care, have the guts but leave the force because either: (a) They know that they can't change anything from the inside or (b) because they did try to do something about it and were blackballed for daring to cross the thin blue line.
1: https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone
Makes me feel better again for not tolerating a guy at work who revealed a veneration for Tommy Robinson , the UK's Spencer type.
Hitherto, I knew he had some reactionary views but they were just a bit absurd and I thought I was bringing him around to more compassionate worldview. Then one day the Tommy Robinson stuff started coming out, about how he was personal friend etc
I threw the fucker out of my office and the next week he left the building.
As I said to him at the time, there's a line that gets crossed and no point in wasting my energy on a someone who carries obviously hateful views.
And go all in guns blazing. If it’s true what he says, then five guns were drawn for what’s basically a nude ass in public. Most cops in Europe has never drawn their guns at a suspect, but when they do, it’s for much more serious crimes and for suspect who are a thread.
10 hours in a jail cell for something as innocent as this is also complete overkill. Again, we are talking a nude as in public.
In the podcast they actually never mention any guns being drawn, just 5 gun being 'around'. So it sounds to me like there were 5 cops with guns around.
Yeah it's ridiculous, and in my opinion it shows the difference in mentality cops are taught when joining the force in the US vs. the Netherlands (haven't been in other European countries long enough to talk about those). In the Netherlands they are very much taught to de-escalate, in the US it's about a show of force and showing them who's tough or something (despite a lot of them having the IQ of shrimp and fitness of a sloth :P).
Yes, except:
1. Depending on where you are, it's more likely that the 'toezichthouders' show up instead of the police,
2. For a call like this, the cops wouldn't show up with 5 of them, most likely just 2.
Doesn't change the fact that US cops with guns are scarier than Dutch cops with guns :D
My neighbour was a policeman. He said he never used or pulled the gun and when leaving home he always left the gun in the police station cabinet. He worked for 40 years and worked undercover for many years even getting a medal from a successful operation.
In Spain.
One thing that people from outside the US can’t comprehend is the vastness of the country and how that affects time and perception. For example, right now it is 9:20 in New York but it’s 8:20 in Chicago, and in Oklahoma and Kansas it’s 1947.
The USA is the spectator who brings a dog to watch the race and gets all uppity at the consternation when it runs into the middle of the bikes suddenly
That depends on the way you look at it. When I look at the state of Dutch politics, it looks like the USA is actually in the front of the race to the bottom. We're all following them in their conservatism.
I'm just imagining Hank Hill recoiling at the thought of two seminude, very athletic European men spraying each other down with water bottles.
"BWAH! Buh gawd, that ain't right! Bobby, call the police!"
It doesn't help that to many Americans, road cycling is right up there on the peak of the Gay-Looking Sport Pyramid with ice dance and men's tandem luge.
And yet this is the country where MMA is the fastest growing spectator sport, because practically nude, muscular men grunting and sweating as they try to leg-lock each other's necks on national HD TV broadcast, that's some good old fashioned heteronormative violence! Bring the kids!
Keep in mind that the same people would probably start to froth at the mouth if you suggested their kid ought not to run through a sprinkler in their yard in summertime, because freedom, etc.
I mean... as someone who actually is a queer cyclist - isn't the issue here actually public nudity? "I quickly changed my pants between the car doors" seems to imply that he stripped in public, and that would indeed be illegal in many places?
The charge seems to be public indecency, the cops just decided to be weirdly homophobic about it. Also quickly changing behind a car door is something that most places *would* be cool with, or at least not bother prosecuting.
Also worth noting that police abusing indecency laws against queer people happens... a lot.
I actually suspect the “gay cyclists” comment was the onlooker’s statement in their phone call to the police, which would be included in the police report. It seems most reasonable to me that the police got a complaint about lewd gay naked acts in public, they responded and heard the cyclists’ story/confession that they were naked changing in the parking lot, and they booked them accordingly, including in their report the reason they were there
The laws vary by state but nudity alone doesn’t always qualify as indecent until somebody to be offended by it.
Indecency charges are usually used in connection with some thing more serious or as an excuse to target somebody
I have often been amazed at how prudish most Americans I have met really are, even the ones who grew up in cities. Every hint of nudity is sexualised immediately and radically.
It's so stupid, and all amounts of violence are ok and enjoyed. I remember the whole Janet Jackson nipple thing and a Dutch person asking me to explain why a nipple was such a big deal. The oppression of nudity is what leads to the sexualization of it.
We had an English teacher in the Madrid office and we recommended her to visit Cádiz in the South because it has great beaches. She came back in shock because she saw people naked on the beach. She was 25 years old.
I was just yesterday thinking about how there aren't any openly gay cyclists, and well... There's part of the fucking reason. That's complete bullshit they had to go through that and I hope they're both feeling okay after it but shit... That sucks hard.
[There's a cyclocross rider](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyclocross/comments/ksnn2g/belgian_u23_cross_racer_comes_out_as_gay/), and some riders who came out after retirement like Graeme Obree.
That r/cyclocross thread (and [this recent r/peloton thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1hxn4q/are_there_any_openly_gay_cyclists_on_worldtour/) on the topic) sadly also show why coming out is still a challenge.
Did you link to the right r/peloton thread? You describe it as recent, but it's 11 years old, so if there's a more recent one, I'd be genuinely interested in reading that too.
/possibly missing entirely that you meant "recent" in an ironic sense.
Sorry, not the right one indeed, [I meant to link to this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1ap9w99/does_cycling_have_a_homophobia_problem/).
Probably also inadvertently making my point that nothing much has changed in 10 years.
Thank you! I look forward to reading.
And yeah, whatever the reason, it really does seem like cycling has a lot of room for improvement. I really look forward to the day that we get our first openly gay or bi male WT rider!
Indeed, but I highly doubt we'll get there anytime soon.
(As someone who's bisexual: the statement "I'm going to Rome with my girlfriend this weekend" gets a very different reaction to "I'm going to Rome with my boyfriend this weekend").
Reading the article directly the focus should be on stripping down after rides. The article points out there are laws against exposure in Kansas. However, I don’t agree with this as there’s far better use of law enforcement it’s still up to interpretation. The initial call in could have been a stretch of truth
This is just another insane example of American police letting crime run rampant and is exactly why citizen’s arrests and summary executions should be brought back to the land of freedom. If these nutso biker boys tried this near me I’d make sure to teach them a lesson, maybe seek retribution on their entire families just for good order.
If the poor people that had to go to a parking lot to see 5 seconds of a cyclists dick had guns, they could have shot them right then and there and didn't need to endanger the police.
Europeans, think of the US like the EU. Not all states are the same, and even within the state not all areas are the same, and because of that, being aware of the local culture is important. We have some fairly progressive states, and we have some very backwards shithole third-world states. The more rural the area is, the more you can assume they're all gonna be regressive shitheads.
Regardless of that, I don't think there's really anywhere in the US where I would be Donald Ducking it in a parking lot. That's how you end up on a sex offender registry here. In the south they'd call you gay or a pedophile while arresting you, in the north they'd call you a sexual predator while arresting you.
The American version of personal liberty has always been a very puritanical quasi-religous hypocritical lie.
If you want to be a "gay pedophile sexual predator" here you need to be a priest, a politician, or a billionaire. Cyclists aren't on the approved list of people that get a free pass to hang dong in a parking lot.
Well, personally I would never cycle in the US. The amount of people intentionally hit by cars for daring to use a bike there is just too high for my comfort. Especially in states like Oklahoma.
Glad it worked out for them. But I doubt it will make any difference for how the police act in the future.
Any information on what town in Oklahoma this was in? I’d like to organize a protest where we all wear Borat singlets and spray each other with water bottles.
Athletes would do well to stay away from countries ruled by religious maniacs that try to sports-wash their image. And that now apparently includes the USA. Or perhaps it has always included the USA.
In the great state of Oklahoma /s the crime of public indecency requires “willful and knowing[]” exposure of one’s “genitals.” That did not happen here. The exposure was arguably not willful as they tried to be discrete, but the real negation of a crime is that the exposure was of their buttocks which are not genitals.
21 OK Stat § 1021 (2023)
Further, there may be civil claims such as false imprisonment and issues regarding the “gay” bit.
Ah yes, the charge of being a gay cyclist. Completely logical and definitely something that requires several units to show up. Just...fucking hell, man.
You really have to be careful where you go in the US. Most of the county by land area is rural Republican hellscape where if your car broke down you can't go and knock on a door for help without being shot.
I'm always afraid of what will happen to cyclists when the go to Emporia, KS. Obviously this was in Oklahoma, but in the early 2000s I took a remote degree from Emporia State and I was constantly amazed at how much lower the bar could drop when it came to behavior from the Emporia students. It's not just that they were bigoted -- they became enraged when anyone didn't accept their bigotry at face value. I'm not saying they got mad when they were called out for their behavior, they got mad when people didn't actively agree with it.
Then, a few years later, they hired a black professor in that department and when his wife (also black) was subject to racist graphitti in her office, he was fired for not dropping the case when they decided not to do anything about it.
Obviously there are good people in Emporia and obviously there are gay people and other non WASPy types everywhere and all those people deserve respect, but Emporia, Kansas is one of the least safe places in America for anyone who isn't visibly recoginzable as white, straight, and Christian.
when european visitors do "gay" stuff in america: "well they should respect the culture and laws of the place they are visiting!"
when american tourists get caught with drugs in some really strict country: "they should show them leniency! they didn't know the law!"
Not saying this is an excuse for the cops but didn't they know that public nudity is illegal in the US? What were they thinking when they decided to get naked in a parking lot?
To be fair my last interaction with a Dutch-speaking cyclist was this Tusday while visiting Leuven as a team building activity. And it was mostly him yelling some insults, plus a "Walen buiten", then giving us the finger.
So maybe these dutch cyclists aren't 100% white in that story (which is probably a bad thing in the US, on top of being a gay cyclist).
/s but true story
As an American, I disagree. Have you heard of the restaurant called Hooters? Wings, boob's, camel toe with your beers and kids meals.
Quickly rinsing and changing in a parking lot is a far cry from lewd sexual activity.
Spirit of the law vs. letter of the law; isn't that in the Bible?
This is one of those stories that are both hilarious & horrible. “Spraying each other with waterbottles, like two gay cyclists” is an amazing sentence.
Reminds me of the scene in Zoolander with the gas nozzles.
ORANGE MOCHA FRAPPUCCINOS
Brint! Nooooooo!
Or in American Flyers when David and Marcus are squirting each other and Sarah just watches, thinking "oh those two gay brothers how I love them"
wake me up before you go go
Gay? Fine. Cyclist? Okay. Gay cyclist? Off to jail you goddamn perv
It's Oklahoma. Perceived dude on dude affection is anything but fine. (I said in another thread that the pearl clutching accuser probably rails against snowflakes)
Bikes, spandex, communal showers... wish I could say I'm surprised, but alas
If you know Oklahoma, either one of the qualifiers earns you a fair bit of derision. both at the same time is just evil incarnate. The only thing that could top it is "gay vegan cyclist"
This is not at all what the issue really was. Stick with me a moment. Americans simply don't accept nudity anywhere near the level others do. (I'm not defending this - it seems ludicrous to me, and intensely hypocritical). Of all places, OK would be one of the worst to be naked in public. If a guy across the street is seeing it - yeah, that'd be a problem in OK. Again, that's not my idea of right / wrong, just trying to explain. Also, the 'gay' bit is likely the OK cops, who are not ever going to be mistaken for intelligent, sophisticated people. Last note for non-Americans: this is an example of why many of us feel frustrated when we are all assumed to have similar attitudes. We do not.
>OK would be one of the worst to be naked in public ........Last note for non-Americans: this is an example of why many of us feel frustrated when we are all assumed to have similar attitudes. We do not. Case in point, the Freemont Solstice Parade in Seattle is famous for the naked bike ride.
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
No, I'm pointing out that "gay" was not likely the real issue for the detainment. Public nudity sure will get you arrested in Oklahoma.
It seems more likely that it was a part of the witness testimony they may have quoted in the arrest report, rather than the officer's judgement of the situation. But I guess we're all just assuming unless we get to see that report.
True. Will stand by: had he not gotten naked, no arrest. I'm sure the cops would've harassed them, but not taken them in. Honestly, Oklahoma is a fucking backwater.
Thanks for explaining this reasonably.
Like us, gay cyclists, do all the time
I need this made into some stickers.
I asked Dall-E to create an image out of this. Was a bit disappointing! Didn't get much further than rainbow shirts on two cyclists.
No jail for the angry biggot? Seems fair
Some extra info: the reason they were 10 hours in jail is because processing payment of the bail took that long. Also some extra comments by Thomas Dekker from [the article on Wielerflits](https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/opmerkelijk-laurens-ten-dam-en-thomas-dekker-zaten-in-amerikaanse-cel-voor-unbound): “I didn't dare do anything,” Dekker adds. “I had five people with guns around me while most have an IQ of a shrimp.” Ten Dam still tried to calm things down. “I thought, I might be able to rebut, but these people didn't listen to that.” And so Dekker and Ten Dam had to be taken to the station and even ended up behind bars. "I think it was a four-by-four place, with no windows and an iron toilet. A small sink, that was it." The two Dutchmen were detained for “inappropriate behavior” in public spaces. "We were still given some food and were under a blanket, because we were cold by now. It all took a very long time and fingerprints were taken. We also had to put on an orange suit, we were really inmate Laurens and inmate Thomas. It's really not allowed there. It did clash with my values,” Dekker said. Edit: due to comment below
Five guns and the IQ of shrimps to arrest gay cyclists, didn‘t have that on my cycling bingo card
That sounds like the spirit of gravel to me.
> Five guns and the IQ of shrimps to arrest gay cyclists Yet that's basically a free space on the Oklahoma bingo card.
Orange jumpsuits? So nice that they considered their origins to give them the proper color!
Would be sick if the 'dutch maffia' got orange skinsuits for their next kit
The LGBT panic in much of the US is insane. Your description reminds me of an old bit by Jeff Foxworthy (the you-might-be-a-redneck comedian) about the '96 Olympics in Atlanta. Apparently they had the kayak competitions on the same river where they filmed Deliverance. His comment was: *"If Ned Beatty couldn't make it down that thing, a Frenchman in a pair of bicycle pants ain't got a chance.."* [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PKPfw5HoLg&t=208s)
It's so weird to me how much hate there is on social media for LGBT community. I feel like we're regressing as a society instead of improving. Even in Belgium I have to avoid social media comments on this subject, they're all just so terrible.
Hé mentioned the gun in the podcast but not that the officers approached with guns drawn or anything. Think some nuance is getting lost in translation here.
You're right, it's edited
>I had five guns pointed at me, even though those people had an IQ of a shrimp. American society in a nutshell
Ok, so the comment says “five people with guns around me” instead of five guns pointed at me. I’m not saying they weren’t assholes and they certainly had the IQ of shrimp, but the guns were almost certainly holstered. There’s rampant homophobia and cops LOVE to pile on a public nudity call because they’re bored and want to check it out. That’s all true. Escalated police presence is a plague. But they would have said if there were guns drawn.
OP must have edited it, mate, I certainly didn't change a word when I quoted this sentence.
For a lot of Europeans, being surrounded by people with holstered guns is quite intimidating. In the UK, your average street cop isn’t carrying a lethal weapon. There are armed police in Europe but police shootings do not happen anywhere near as often.
"those people had an IQ of a shrimp.” Sounds generous. "We also had to put on an orange suit" So they knew they were Dutch then, IQ mark-up!
I liked Dekker as a rider, but this shrimp line also makes me think that we'd get along well over a beer.
Would he like you though?
They pulled their guns out for that???? What the actual fuck.. stuff like that is absolutely unthinkable for the police in Germany for example
Cops in the states will pull their guns at the drop of a hat. Also they'll kill your dog
Drop of an acorn* https://youtu.be/NKmnJgXyZpU
Man I forgot about that video. Just unloading a clip in a residential area. Insane
American cops are the biggest crybaby cowards on earth
That’s not what he said in the podcast
Unfortunately the result of everyone owning a gun in the US is the police think every situation will threaten their lives, even if there’s no reason to think so
If only there was a very simple way to avoid that.
Believe me, I agree. And it’s very funny how the venn diagram for people who “support the police” and people who support firearm ownership is a single circle.
Talking to the guys would have been sufficient! Don't do it again....
That’s not what they said. They where wearing guns and have been treated in a decent way. But have been arrested and detained
US police don't get trained much, high school diploma and a few weeks of training is all it takes in most places. But statistically speaking just about half the people they pull over have a weapon themselves so I understand why they do it faster than German cops, still crazy in this specific case.
Well in theory they have guns so they can defend themselves of others people who also have guns to defend themselves against even worse people that also might have guns. They didn't stop thinking about it deep enough
That's why you need bigger guns is the logic of my neighbor who owns multiple assault rifles.
They roll up with 5 cars and still draw guns at someone having dinner? I must be so European to not understand this.
Don’t forget that the iphone protection cover from Thomas Dekker was pink!
Land of the free
[удалено]
Thoughts and prayers included
Gold-trimmed certificate documenting such available for a small fee of $59.99; miniature bible also available at additional cost.
Only \*after\* a tragedy, never before, and certainly no thinking about ways to prevent future tragedies.
and home of the dumbasses. ....the US is fucked in so many ways
When we sent settlers to the new world, we didn't send our best.
True. The Dutch who initially settled there thought the Netherlands wasnt extreme and conservative enough for them, so they moved over to the Americas to spread their extremism. They are partially to blame for how insane they've become over there.
Replace 'The Dutch' with the Mayflower people, and it's exactly the same story.
The Mayflower came from the Netherlands, but they were not really Dutch. They had first fled to the Netherlands.
Yah it wasn't the Dutch; the Puritans were English people who fled to the Netherlands to escape religious persecution, but the Netherlands was too cosmopolitan and sinful for them.
Yeah, but lots of actual Dutch who settled in the US were also religious extremists. Their descendants mostly live in Western Michigan and Iowa now and are still super religious and conservative. There's still people in the Netherlands like that who stayed behind too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands)
My partner is a US history teacher and laughed out loud at your comment 🤣
just so long as it isn't gay
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
Literally being naked and washing your ass in public in front of a restaurant isn't exactly a 200IQ move tbh
Yeah, but who gives a f tho? Sending five police cars for that?
In small towns, every cop shows up at every call.
Land of the afraid.
Oklahoma, "gay cyclists". Must be a very republican part of the state. How dare they!!!!
> Must be a very republican part of the state. Is there any other part?
I dont know tbh! Im just a Dutch person who cycles.
Texas straight up to Canada is all super republican. Apart from this event or similar, I'd probably never choose to ride my bike in those areas. For reasons similar to this story. They don't take kindly to our type (cyclists).
bro you can't just skip over Minnesota like that.
Minnesota is largely east of Texas, especially the liberal parts. I believe what he meant when saying "Texas straight up to Canada" was the distinct column of states sitting right on top of each other, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas.
Makes sense if you're just going by longitude; in my head I always think of MN as north of TX because I-35 is the biggest north-south corridor in the middle of the country (to me at least, but maybe I'm biased). But I-35 absorbs I-29 before you hit DFW/Austin/San Antonio and goes from Canada to Mexico. But also yeah, if it wasn't for the Twin Cities on the north end of that route, it would be very red. Minnesota also has a ton of actual good paved cycling trails.
>Texas straight up to Canada is all super republican. It's what I thought, but didnt want to cross any democratic dependance that might be hidden there! Like an Austin or Dallas. I guess a lot is gay if it isnt 4 wheels with a pick up
Austin is worth a visit with a bike.
If you want to die, yeah.
Nah, one of the best places in the US to ride a bike. Never had one bad interaction while in Austin and probably did somewhere around 24,000 km on Austin roads.
I live in Austin as well and sold my bike. You have to have grown up with this to be ok. If you didn't, and biked around Europe for most of your life, Austin roads feel like you're part of Mad Max.
(People capable of logical thought)
[удалено]
If Volendam was a US state.
> I dont know tbh! > > Im just a Dutch person who cycles. I live near Seattle, one of the most liberal places in the entire US, but if you drive 20 minutes out of the main population corridor it's all super republican/conversative/maga flags. This pretty much sums up the US, the big/main cities are liberal (with a few exceptions) but once you get out of the main population core it's super conservative and often really racist/homophobic.
Tulsa is pretty welcoming
Basically anywhere you’ll find these big gravel races (outside of Colorado) is going to be a very conservative area of the country
There’s a big race in Vermont, I think. That one is probably safeish. But unfortunately gravel happens in rural areas and the more rural, generally the more conservative.
You're free to carry an assault rifle unconcealed. That does not apply to the assault rifle between your legs.
Pog banned from the US?
No tufts allowed?
During the Giro, half of r/pelotonmemes was just pictures of the pink panther's pink panther
Ah yes, that!
This is why you don't train in shit hole countries like Saudi Arabia or the US. Who knows what they're gonna lock you up for.
Saudi Arabia LOVES gay cyclists....check how much money they give Jayco AlUla, although you can't spray your mate with bidons ain't no water in the desert.
You mean Gayco Alula?
I see your Arabic pronunciation is at top level my shrimp croquettes eating friend!
Agreed, go to some other country to get naked in front of restaurants.
"The gang learns that Americans are aggressively conservative"
Some are for sure, but a lot of us are aggressively liberal. That's why things aren't working out so well.
Nah Americans are pretty conservative by the measure of a lot of the rest of the world. Even the liberal ones. We live in a Christian extremist state.
They even think liberalism it's the opposite to conservative views instead of the complementary
Lol. Nearly 3 billion people live in China and india. Have you ever been there?
I've been to China a few times.
> Thomas Dekker has been arrested Figures. No surprise there > The charge stated that we sprayed each other with water bottles as two gay cyclists Ah, Oklahoma. Where the 18th century isn't history, it's happening right now
Lol. Well, the US are... special sometimes.
They made the right choice of not trying to reason with the cops.. American cops are so jaded they’ll escalate any situation for any reason if things don’t go exactly like they expect.
Odd though, I've never met a dutchman who didn't mouth off at the slightest opportunity....and I work for a Dutch company.
As a Dutchie who worked in Arkansas and Oklahoma, most of us know when to shut up to foreign cops.
Jaded?
There are three types of cops in the US for the most part. 1. Bullies (see also racists, homophobes, etc.) 2. Those who are jaded but stay on the force 3. Ex-cops Bullies are sadly incredibly common. The old saying is that _the biggest difference between a cop and a criminal is that one has a badge_. Many people get into law enforcement because of the power it gives them over other people. The jaded (aka cowards) probably makes up the majority of cops. They know that there are plenty of bad apples around them but they've become numb, don't care, or don't have the guts to do something about it. I tend to lump them in with the bullies because "This is a Nazi bar now"^1. The ex-cops are the ones who aren't numb, do care, have the guts but leave the force because either: (a) They know that they can't change anything from the inside or (b) because they did try to do something about it and were blackballed for daring to cross the thin blue line. 1: https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone
Makes me feel better again for not tolerating a guy at work who revealed a veneration for Tommy Robinson , the UK's Spencer type. Hitherto, I knew he had some reactionary views but they were just a bit absurd and I thought I was bringing him around to more compassionate worldview. Then one day the Tommy Robinson stuff started coming out, about how he was personal friend etc I threw the fucker out of my office and the next week he left the building. As I said to him at the time, there's a line that gets crossed and no point in wasting my energy on a someone who carries obviously hateful views.
It’s an Americanism for racist.
No it isn't. It's an Americanism for cynical and constantly angry.
And go all in guns blazing. If it’s true what he says, then five guns were drawn for what’s basically a nude ass in public. Most cops in Europe has never drawn their guns at a suspect, but when they do, it’s for much more serious crimes and for suspect who are a thread. 10 hours in a jail cell for something as innocent as this is also complete overkill. Again, we are talking a nude as in public.
In the podcast they actually never mention any guns being drawn, just 5 gun being 'around'. So it sounds to me like there were 5 cops with guns around.
Fair enough, but five cops to arrest a nude ass is also total over kill.
Yeah it's ridiculous, and in my opinion it shows the difference in mentality cops are taught when joining the force in the US vs. the Netherlands (haven't been in other European countries long enough to talk about those). In the Netherlands they are very much taught to de-escalate, in the US it's about a show of force and showing them who's tough or something (despite a lot of them having the IQ of shrimp and fitness of a sloth :P).
Yes, same in Denmark.
Pretty sure most sloths are fitter than most cops.
5 cops with guns shouldn't have been a shock as the police in the Netherlands all carry guns.
Yes, except: 1. Depending on where you are, it's more likely that the 'toezichthouders' show up instead of the police, 2. For a call like this, the cops wouldn't show up with 5 of them, most likely just 2. Doesn't change the fact that US cops with guns are scarier than Dutch cops with guns :D
My neighbour was a policeman. He said he never used or pulled the gun and when leaving home he always left the gun in the police station cabinet. He worked for 40 years and worked undercover for many years even getting a medal from a successful operation. In Spain.
One thing that people from outside the US can’t comprehend is the vastness of the country and how that affects time and perception. For example, right now it is 9:20 in New York but it’s 8:20 in Chicago, and in Oklahoma and Kansas it’s 1947.
I gotta save that one, phenomenal
So the bumpkin who reported them used the word "Cyclist" ???? Folks! We have progress here!!!
the usa is the gruppeto of the world in so many aspects
The US is the Fred on an ebike going off the front yelling ”Fucking losers” to the guys in the peloton
The USA is the spectator who brings a dog to watch the race and gets all uppity at the consternation when it runs into the middle of the bikes suddenly
Absolutely this
That depends on the way you look at it. When I look at the state of Dutch politics, it looks like the USA is actually in the front of the race to the bottom. We're all following them in their conservatism.
Jacopo Guarnieri for eu president and all will be good
>Be naked in a parking lot "Try that in a small town"
They should contact MVDP he knows a good lawyer specialized in foreign cases.
I'm just imagining Hank Hill recoiling at the thought of two seminude, very athletic European men spraying each other down with water bottles. "BWAH! Buh gawd, that ain't right! Bobby, call the police!" It doesn't help that to many Americans, road cycling is right up there on the peak of the Gay-Looking Sport Pyramid with ice dance and men's tandem luge. And yet this is the country where MMA is the fastest growing spectator sport, because practically nude, muscular men grunting and sweating as they try to leg-lock each other's necks on national HD TV broadcast, that's some good old fashioned heteronormative violence! Bring the kids! Keep in mind that the same people would probably start to froth at the mouth if you suggested their kid ought not to run through a sprinkler in their yard in summertime, because freedom, etc.
I mean... as someone who actually is a queer cyclist - isn't the issue here actually public nudity? "I quickly changed my pants between the car doors" seems to imply that he stripped in public, and that would indeed be illegal in many places?
The charge seems to be public indecency, the cops just decided to be weirdly homophobic about it. Also quickly changing behind a car door is something that most places *would* be cool with, or at least not bother prosecuting. Also worth noting that police abusing indecency laws against queer people happens... a lot.
I actually suspect the “gay cyclists” comment was the onlooker’s statement in their phone call to the police, which would be included in the police report. It seems most reasonable to me that the police got a complaint about lewd gay naked acts in public, they responded and heard the cyclists’ story/confession that they were naked changing in the parking lot, and they booked them accordingly, including in their report the reason they were there
It's the most common practice after any gravel race everywhere.
“rinsing off ‘in his bare ass”
The laws vary by state but nudity alone doesn’t always qualify as indecent until somebody to be offended by it. Indecency charges are usually used in connection with some thing more serious or as an excuse to target somebody
So he was naked in a parking lot? Yeah, that's not gonna fly most places in the US. They're still Puritans.
I have often been amazed at how prudish most Americans I have met really are, even the ones who grew up in cities. Every hint of nudity is sexualised immediately and radically.
It's so stupid, and all amounts of violence are ok and enjoyed. I remember the whole Janet Jackson nipple thing and a Dutch person asking me to explain why a nipple was such a big deal. The oppression of nudity is what leads to the sexualization of it.
We had an English teacher in the Madrid office and we recommended her to visit Cádiz in the South because it has great beaches. She came back in shock because she saw people naked on the beach. She was 25 years old.
I was just yesterday thinking about how there aren't any openly gay cyclists, and well... There's part of the fucking reason. That's complete bullshit they had to go through that and I hope they're both feeling okay after it but shit... That sucks hard.
> openly gay cyclists openly gay male cyclists at the WT level
Are there any openly gay male cyclists at lower levels? Sincere question. I know there are many openly gay female cyclists, so yay for that.
[There's a cyclocross rider](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyclocross/comments/ksnn2g/belgian_u23_cross_racer_comes_out_as_gay/), and some riders who came out after retirement like Graeme Obree. That r/cyclocross thread (and [this recent r/peloton thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1hxn4q/are_there_any_openly_gay_cyclists_on_worldtour/) on the topic) sadly also show why coming out is still a challenge.
Did you link to the right r/peloton thread? You describe it as recent, but it's 11 years old, so if there's a more recent one, I'd be genuinely interested in reading that too. /possibly missing entirely that you meant "recent" in an ironic sense.
Sorry, not the right one indeed, [I meant to link to this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1ap9w99/does_cycling_have_a_homophobia_problem/). Probably also inadvertently making my point that nothing much has changed in 10 years.
Thank you! I look forward to reading. And yeah, whatever the reason, it really does seem like cycling has a lot of room for improvement. I really look forward to the day that we get our first openly gay or bi male WT rider!
Yes, and even more to day when someone comes out and it's not even a thing anymore.
Indeed, but I highly doubt we'll get there anytime soon. (As someone who's bisexual: the statement "I'm going to Rome with my girlfriend this weekend" gets a very different reaction to "I'm going to Rome with my boyfriend this weekend").
Relevant thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/v2fhr2/happy_pride_month_here_are_some_lgbtq_cyclists_to/
Tbh they were probably just cleaning each other behind their cars like you can see after any gravel race everywhere. Just American happened
There are openly gay female cyclist
Reading the article directly the focus should be on stripping down after rides. The article points out there are laws against exposure in Kansas. However, I don’t agree with this as there’s far better use of law enforcement it’s still up to interpretation. The initial call in could have been a stretch of truth
Well, Oklahoma is no Oklahomo
Washing the sweat off before you enter a Mexican restaurant, naturally that is the most glaringly indecent behavior.
This is just another insane example of American police letting crime run rampant and is exactly why citizen’s arrests and summary executions should be brought back to the land of freedom. If these nutso biker boys tried this near me I’d make sure to teach them a lesson, maybe seek retribution on their entire families just for good order.
Guns don't kill people, naked asses kill people.
If the poor people that had to go to a parking lot to see 5 seconds of a cyclists dick had guns, they could have shot them right then and there and didn't need to endanger the police.
Europeans, think of the US like the EU. Not all states are the same, and even within the state not all areas are the same, and because of that, being aware of the local culture is important. We have some fairly progressive states, and we have some very backwards shithole third-world states. The more rural the area is, the more you can assume they're all gonna be regressive shitheads. Regardless of that, I don't think there's really anywhere in the US where I would be Donald Ducking it in a parking lot. That's how you end up on a sex offender registry here. In the south they'd call you gay or a pedophile while arresting you, in the north they'd call you a sexual predator while arresting you. The American version of personal liberty has always been a very puritanical quasi-religous hypocritical lie. If you want to be a "gay pedophile sexual predator" here you need to be a priest, a politician, or a billionaire. Cyclists aren't on the approved list of people that get a free pass to hang dong in a parking lot.
Shithole country!
Well, personally I would never cycle in the US. The amount of people intentionally hit by cars for daring to use a bike there is just too high for my comfort. Especially in states like Oklahoma. Glad it worked out for them. But I doubt it will make any difference for how the police act in the future.
The amount of times I've been bare assed in the parking lot of a ski resort as I get changed...this is so dumb.
Wow. The US truly is a fucking shit show.
Any information on what town in Oklahoma this was in? I’d like to organize a protest where we all wear Borat singlets and spray each other with water bottles.
They mention Marietta lmao
Ohhhh that's less than 2 hours from Dallas. Totally possible. Any mention of the restaurant name?
Sounds like a southpark episode
This ain't Europe Fellas. You need to watch your every pedal stroke navigating extremely conservative middle America.
Athletes would do well to stay away from countries ruled by religious maniacs that try to sports-wash their image. And that now apparently includes the USA. Or perhaps it has always included the USA.
Always
Bible belt
This is why as a Canadian I take cycling vacations in Italy/ Spain vs US right next door. I’d rather road cycle in Watopia than the US.
As an American. That’s why I spend months at a time in Spain. Including next month.
School shootings? Fine mate. A willy in public? AWH HELL NAWH.
In the great state of Oklahoma /s the crime of public indecency requires “willful and knowing[]” exposure of one’s “genitals.” That did not happen here. The exposure was arguably not willful as they tried to be discrete, but the real negation of a crime is that the exposure was of their buttocks which are not genitals. 21 OK Stat § 1021 (2023) Further, there may be civil claims such as false imprisonment and issues regarding the “gay” bit.
Ah yes, the charge of being a gay cyclist. Completely logical and definitely something that requires several units to show up. Just...fucking hell, man.
You really have to be careful where you go in the US. Most of the county by land area is rural Republican hellscape where if your car broke down you can't go and knock on a door for help without being shot.
Why did they go to the most cyclist-unfriendly place in the country?
I'm always afraid of what will happen to cyclists when the go to Emporia, KS. Obviously this was in Oklahoma, but in the early 2000s I took a remote degree from Emporia State and I was constantly amazed at how much lower the bar could drop when it came to behavior from the Emporia students. It's not just that they were bigoted -- they became enraged when anyone didn't accept their bigotry at face value. I'm not saying they got mad when they were called out for their behavior, they got mad when people didn't actively agree with it. Then, a few years later, they hired a black professor in that department and when his wife (also black) was subject to racist graphitti in her office, he was fired for not dropping the case when they decided not to do anything about it. Obviously there are good people in Emporia and obviously there are gay people and other non WASPy types everywhere and all those people deserve respect, but Emporia, Kansas is one of the least safe places in America for anyone who isn't visibly recoginzable as white, straight, and Christian.
when european visitors do "gay" stuff in america: "well they should respect the culture and laws of the place they are visiting!" when american tourists get caught with drugs in some really strict country: "they should show them leniency! they didn't know the law!"
America is a sick fuckin joke.
I mean, at least he wasn’t hit by a team car passing him. /s
This is outrageous https://youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw
Ignorantia iuris nocet
Not saying this is an excuse for the cops but didn't they know that public nudity is illegal in the US? What were they thinking when they decided to get naked in a parking lot?
To be fair my last interaction with a Dutch-speaking cyclist was this Tusday while visiting Leuven as a team building activity. And it was mostly him yelling some insults, plus a "Walen buiten", then giving us the finger. So maybe these dutch cyclists aren't 100% white in that story (which is probably a bad thing in the US, on top of being a gay cyclist). /s but true story
As an American, I disagree. Have you heard of the restaurant called Hooters? Wings, boob's, camel toe with your beers and kids meals. Quickly rinsing and changing in a parking lot is a far cry from lewd sexual activity. Spirit of the law vs. letter of the law; isn't that in the Bible?
"America, land of the free". Right?