Clear casting:
Alpecin / Jasper as the villains of the season.
Cavendish as a tragic hero.
Bahrain / Bilbao as victorious heroes on a quest to honor a fallen comrade.
Great reality TV.
With so many over-the-top characters in cycling, I find the Roodhofts' personality refreshing.
In general, I feel there's a bit more "acting" in this season. Some seem more aware of the show and a few interactions seem to be made just for the camera. For example, when Bilbao and his wife are on the beach. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.
Bilbao and Mohoric both seem like pretty stand up guys. I was a little surprised to see Bilbao speaking mostly all in Spanish here, since he usually prefers to give interviews in English. Probably a show runner choice, since Rodriguez was kinda the same way in a later episode.
Alpecin though...yikes on bikes. (Literally.)
Unrelated to these episodes in particular, but it's nice to see so much of Jan Polanc.
In these episodes, I kept wondering how the rest of the teams might be perceiving Alpecin. They had this attitude of "if they don't like us winning, they should be better" but I guess there's a lot other teams can do to impair their chances of winning without a) beating them in the sprint, or b) incurring in any blatantly illegal action. Things that come to mind: disrupting breakaway pursuits and disrupting sprint leadouts. Not saying they should do it, but annoy enough people and you'll eventually have a harder time.
I forgot how shit the Cavendish crash was. Like... it was so pointless and low-key, you can totally understand why he's signed for another year. Seeing his face again as he sits in the car afterwards was hard too, he looks so broken and crushed.
Well, the series act like that the teams that are not filmed (like IPT or Movistar) don\`t exist at all. They had a hard time on Season 1 with Pogacar which was scripted like a non-speaking antagonist.
Another clear example this season was ignoring Mas when he and Carapaz chrashed, no mention at all that two of the big GC guys are out on the first day.
100%. And as much as I loved Mohoric, and the significance for team Bahrain, it was a complete misrepresentation of that stage to present it as if Woods beat out Mohoric instead of Jorgenson. The narrative of that stage was Jorgenson's solo breakaway followed by Woods reeling him in on the silent climb up the Puy de Dome, and you got none of that sense from the episode.
On the sprinters narrative... i wish that Lotto allowed filming themselves so that they showed Ewan\`s attitude towards his teammates. Also, where is EF new stage-hunting, KOM jersey strategy after Carapaz\`s DNF? That was left nowhere after episode 1.
MVDP comes across really arrogant here. He hasn't shown too much personality in stuff I've seen before, which was certainly a good choice. More I see of him, less I like him
Average Rob is such a good channel to watch. I can’t believe it’s not more popular. But yeah, back on topic, MVDP seems like a really solid guy so I suspect the editing here did him no favours.
I enjoyed those videos too, but the editing didn't do him dirty in Unchained. He literally laughed off elbowing someone out of his way when he got relegated. Can't edit that
I’d be wary of judging people based on a 20 second appearance on a heavily edited TV show. He strikes me as a very confident but pretty easy going guy usually
https://youtu.be/YogZubKl4sw?si=MxnpV2eLrUZagp_P
Yeah he does usually come across alright but he came across badly in this series. The way the whole of Alpecin dealt with Jasper's dangerous sprints was not nice at all. MvDP elbowing his way in to the sprints and then laughing about it after wasn't cool.
How much of that was editing though? I always take these shows with heaps of salt because they’re always edited to form narratives that are a lot more complex in real life
I’d love to know what the team think of how they’re portrayed in the show. MVdP is almost gloating, the Roodhofts defiant, Philipsen dismissive - it surely must have occurred to them at some point, [“Are we the baddies?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY)
I really disliked them too (I’m a Mathieu fan in general) but I bet every other team would do the same if they could.
The fact that it's not every other team with a top tier sprinter who actually does this is probably a sign they wouldn't.
Mads P was on a "long form informal interview" podcast in DK last summer and went into details about how he feels about sprints and safety etc (the "I couldn't care less if Phillipsen crashes himself" quote made international rounds from it).
He was actually pretty reflective about how he 1) would never put himself between certain riders (Jasper, I'm better Groenewegen too tbh) and a barrier, even if it is the way to victory (says he likes being alive too much) and 2) that he personally couldn't imagine deliberately putting others in danger for win, because he also has to look himself and his colleagues in the eyes after winning. And this team and fans has to be on board with that.
It wasn't said in a "I'm a saint" way btw - he openly stated that if it's between someone else or him going down, he's obviously not gonna pick the other guy's safety over his own.
Which led to the "yeah, if Phillipsen ends up crashing and hurting himself with how he's riding, I don't give a fuck, that's his choice and problem"...
But he (like many) had been pretty shaken by Jakobsen's crash, and would prefer to never see anything like that happen again.
So if Trek is okay and successful with him having that mindset, it probably shows that not all teams have the Alpecin agenda...
> I really disliked them too (I’m a Mathieu fan in general) but I bet every other team would do the same if they could.
That’s kind of how sprints work, it’s always pretty nasty, as long as the organizer do not punish them, it means they are right to do it
Cavendish wins were also really controversial, but all we remember today is that he’s the guy with the most wins. It’s all that count at the end if organizer accept it
>Stage 7 : Astana ultra-prepared, Cavendish feeling good but loses out ; result again contested as Philipsen squeezes Bini to barriers ; Jasper gets hate on social media
oh, I'm still pissed about this one. Cav should've won and Philipsen absolutely should've been relegated. damn.
Honestly I was surprised at how non-sketchy Astana as a team seemed in their feature. The scene where the whole coaching staff was cheering for Cav on the bus was really sweet.
Max Wahlscheid just stated in his podcast that he has spoken to Jasper Philipsen at the last Saitama Criterium about Tdf Unchained, and that Jasper said that he had great concerns („große Bedenken“) about it, seeing that on one hand his performance was great, but there was also his questionable behavior in multiple sprints. Jasper said that Netflix collected a lot of filming material on him, but that he (and his partner) did not have any control over what was filmed or picked out as central themes. They were also not allowed to see the material before the release of the series.
The podcast episode is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/pkFxYoIrOig?si=6H0_8hVXXqWyBnfK
I really dislike Jasper Philipsen.
That said, why didnt they show the other wins for Bahrain and For Gino? Mohoric and especially Poels had fantastic stage wins. MIssed opportunity. They had a real successful TDF23.
I found the 'Alpecin are the villains' narrative a bit over the top, even though I agree Jasper was quite dirty in the sprints and they were lucky to get away with as much as they did.
Him and MvdP got edited into these sort of 'sports movie high school bully' characters when stuff like being a bit blasé about the fine for example is completely normal, teams are getting fined for stuff all the time it's not something for the riders to care about.
In this case it wasn't just a fine for littering or peeing in public though.
With the new proposed yellow card rules, that move was a yellow card to MvdP. Which hopefully would make them care a bit more.
Maybe thats all they recorded, them being bullies. ;)
Honestly after watching this I can't stand watching Philipsen now.
And MvdP with his cool Porsche and acting like that, looks like top football school bully from every teen American movie.
Then you have Wout, who looks like normal human being.
Nah they had a massive amount of material and interviews they just cut it up in a way that makes the Netflix story lines and narratives work best.
Sometimes lines from a guy are used in a cut of an other event than the one spoken about. Or just 2 lines out of 500 from an interview just to create the correct narrative. It's the way of reality tv.
Didn’t know more about Pello Bilbao before the series. He seemed like a grounded and cool dude.
He's very insightful in his interviews. And if you like him now wait until you watch this: https://youtu.be/ggxfZlheUHU?si=CiEyquE3jqF-GIw5
lol. when i clicked on the link, i was expecting an insightful interview...then the first 10-15 seconds, i was like, am i getting rick rolled?
Can anybody give a rough translation or at least the theme of the song? It's beautiful, thanks for this! edit: nevermind, I found the original
Clear casting: Alpecin / Jasper as the villains of the season. Cavendish as a tragic hero. Bahrain / Bilbao as victorious heroes on a quest to honor a fallen comrade. Great reality TV.
With so many over-the-top characters in cycling, I find the Roodhofts' personality refreshing. In general, I feel there's a bit more "acting" in this season. Some seem more aware of the show and a few interactions seem to be made just for the camera. For example, when Bilbao and his wife are on the beach. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation.
The scenes with the partners are clearly all “reality tv scripted.”
Yea like Philipsens partner in a beautiful purple outfit when they are meant to be chilling at home and chatting cracked me up. He was in sweats.
The dialogue is so funny to me in that “scene”. I sure hope they don’t sit at home discussing Jaspers lead-out like that.
Those scenes are a bit cringe I must say
Oh, for sure. It just seems a bit more planned than the first season.
Bilbao and Mohoric both seem like pretty stand up guys. I was a little surprised to see Bilbao speaking mostly all in Spanish here, since he usually prefers to give interviews in English. Probably a show runner choice, since Rodriguez was kinda the same way in a later episode. Alpecin though...yikes on bikes. (Literally.) Unrelated to these episodes in particular, but it's nice to see so much of Jan Polanc.
In these episodes, I kept wondering how the rest of the teams might be perceiving Alpecin. They had this attitude of "if they don't like us winning, they should be better" but I guess there's a lot other teams can do to impair their chances of winning without a) beating them in the sprint, or b) incurring in any blatantly illegal action. Things that come to mind: disrupting breakaway pursuits and disrupting sprint leadouts. Not saying they should do it, but annoy enough people and you'll eventually have a harder time.
I forgot how shit the Cavendish crash was. Like... it was so pointless and low-key, you can totally understand why he's signed for another year. Seeing his face again as he sits in the car afterwards was hard too, he looks so broken and crushed.
I can’t help but think the skipping chain and the pointless crash were signs from the cycling gods though…
They truly did an injustice to Mike Woods in episode 4. His victory on the puy du Dôme was extraordinary.
And to Jorgenson who was close to winning and I think did a great race that day.
Well, the series act like that the teams that are not filmed (like IPT or Movistar) don\`t exist at all. They had a hard time on Season 1 with Pogacar which was scripted like a non-speaking antagonist.
Another clear example this season was ignoring Mas when he and Carapaz chrashed, no mention at all that two of the big GC guys are out on the first day.
100%. And as much as I loved Mohoric, and the significance for team Bahrain, it was a complete misrepresentation of that stage to present it as if Woods beat out Mohoric instead of Jorgenson. The narrative of that stage was Jorgenson's solo breakaway followed by Woods reeling him in on the silent climb up the Puy de Dome, and you got none of that sense from the episode.
On the sprinters narrative... i wish that Lotto allowed filming themselves so that they showed Ewan\`s attitude towards his teammates. Also, where is EF new stage-hunting, KOM jersey strategy after Carapaz\`s DNF? That was left nowhere after episode 1.
You can’t tell every story in a recap series.
MVDP comes across really arrogant here. He hasn't shown too much personality in stuff I've seen before, which was certainly a good choice. More I see of him, less I like him
Me too, in the alpecin episode where he laughing about the fine and criticism of how they were riding.
Average Rob has a few videos on YouTube with him riding CX and MTB and he seems like a chill dude.
Average Rob is such a good channel to watch. I can’t believe it’s not more popular. But yeah, back on topic, MVDP seems like a really solid guy so I suspect the editing here did him no favours.
I enjoyed those videos too, but the editing didn't do him dirty in Unchained. He literally laughed off elbowing someone out of his way when he got relegated. Can't edit that
Yeah I've seen those and a few interviews before, he has seemed chill, which is why I was disappointed to see his conduct in this show
I’d be wary of judging people based on a 20 second appearance on a heavily edited TV show. He strikes me as a very confident but pretty easy going guy usually https://youtu.be/YogZubKl4sw?si=MxnpV2eLrUZagp_P
Yeah he does usually come across alright but he came across badly in this series. The way the whole of Alpecin dealt with Jasper's dangerous sprints was not nice at all. MvDP elbowing his way in to the sprints and then laughing about it after wasn't cool.
How much of that was editing though? I always take these shows with heaps of salt because they’re always edited to form narratives that are a lot more complex in real life
It was direct quotes from him and the alepecin bosses, can't edit that out
I mean, he did punch a teenage girl.
No, he didn’t.
Jasper really is the worst, no self awareness whatsoever. Every sprint results in a controversy when he is involved and he never wonders why?
I’d love to know what the team think of how they’re portrayed in the show. MVdP is almost gloating, the Roodhofts defiant, Philipsen dismissive - it surely must have occurred to them at some point, [“Are we the baddies?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY) I really disliked them too (I’m a Mathieu fan in general) but I bet every other team would do the same if they could.
The fact that it's not every other team with a top tier sprinter who actually does this is probably a sign they wouldn't. Mads P was on a "long form informal interview" podcast in DK last summer and went into details about how he feels about sprints and safety etc (the "I couldn't care less if Phillipsen crashes himself" quote made international rounds from it). He was actually pretty reflective about how he 1) would never put himself between certain riders (Jasper, I'm better Groenewegen too tbh) and a barrier, even if it is the way to victory (says he likes being alive too much) and 2) that he personally couldn't imagine deliberately putting others in danger for win, because he also has to look himself and his colleagues in the eyes after winning. And this team and fans has to be on board with that. It wasn't said in a "I'm a saint" way btw - he openly stated that if it's between someone else or him going down, he's obviously not gonna pick the other guy's safety over his own. Which led to the "yeah, if Phillipsen ends up crashing and hurting himself with how he's riding, I don't give a fuck, that's his choice and problem"... But he (like many) had been pretty shaken by Jakobsen's crash, and would prefer to never see anything like that happen again. So if Trek is okay and successful with him having that mindset, it probably shows that not all teams have the Alpecin agenda...
> I really disliked them too (I’m a Mathieu fan in general) but I bet every other team would do the same if they could. That’s kind of how sprints work, it’s always pretty nasty, as long as the organizer do not punish them, it means they are right to do it Cavendish wins were also really controversial, but all we remember today is that he’s the guy with the most wins. It’s all that count at the end if organizer accept it
>Stage 7 : Astana ultra-prepared, Cavendish feeling good but loses out ; result again contested as Philipsen squeezes Bini to barriers ; Jasper gets hate on social media oh, I'm still pissed about this one. Cav should've won and Philipsen absolutely should've been relegated. damn.
Honestly I was surprised at how non-sketchy Astana as a team seemed in their feature. The scene where the whole coaching staff was cheering for Cav on the bus was really sweet.
It is a Netflix decision how the teams are presented. Cav is a good guy in their storytelling, so the team is presented favorably.
Mathieu and Jasper chatting in the hotel was hilarious.
Wonder what they talk about when the cameras aren't rolling.
Max Wahlscheid just stated in his podcast that he has spoken to Jasper Philipsen at the last Saitama Criterium about Tdf Unchained, and that Jasper said that he had great concerns („große Bedenken“) about it, seeing that on one hand his performance was great, but there was also his questionable behavior in multiple sprints. Jasper said that Netflix collected a lot of filming material on him, but that he (and his partner) did not have any control over what was filmed or picked out as central themes. They were also not allowed to see the material before the release of the series. The podcast episode is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/pkFxYoIrOig?si=6H0_8hVXXqWyBnfK
I really dislike Jasper Philipsen. That said, why didnt they show the other wins for Bahrain and For Gino? Mohoric and especially Poels had fantastic stage wins. MIssed opportunity. They had a real successful TDF23.
Mohoric’s win is in a later episode. They don’t show Poels’ win at all, maybe a lack of time? They sort of missed it on live TV back then too!
I found the 'Alpecin are the villains' narrative a bit over the top, even though I agree Jasper was quite dirty in the sprints and they were lucky to get away with as much as they did. Him and MvdP got edited into these sort of 'sports movie high school bully' characters when stuff like being a bit blasé about the fine for example is completely normal, teams are getting fined for stuff all the time it's not something for the riders to care about.
In this case it wasn't just a fine for littering or peeing in public though. With the new proposed yellow card rules, that move was a yellow card to MvdP. Which hopefully would make them care a bit more.
Maybe thats all they recorded, them being bullies. ;) Honestly after watching this I can't stand watching Philipsen now. And MvdP with his cool Porsche and acting like that, looks like top football school bully from every teen American movie. Then you have Wout, who looks like normal human being.
Nah they had a massive amount of material and interviews they just cut it up in a way that makes the Netflix story lines and narratives work best. Sometimes lines from a guy are used in a cut of an other event than the one spoken about. Or just 2 lines out of 500 from an interview just to create the correct narrative. It's the way of reality tv.
Omg amazing
[удалено]
They have Mohoric’s win in a later episode, but somewhat cruelly bypass Poels’ win. Time/storytelling reasons I guess.