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OP now knows they were scammed. Posting raw criticism, shaming them, or anything that doesn't help them either resolve the issue or help prevent the issue in the future is not allowed. We are a community that exists to help people learn about their finances. Shaming people for posting only serves to drive people away. You can educate without shaming and that is the behavior expected of all who use this sub.
Venmo_customersupport.net - very believable.
Here’s a helpful hint to sniff out fake emails. The @companyname.com domain is often the exact same as the URL for their website. If you copy paste the domain into a browser and it comes up with something other than the company’s proper website, it’s a bogus email.
>This is an example of a phishing attack. Phishing is the fraudulent practice of sending emails and pretending to be from a reputable company in order to trick users into revealing personal information, such as passwords and credit card numbers. This email appears to be untargeted since it was sent to both customers and non-customers of this particular bank; it is best classified as phishing. Spear phishing requires the attack to be more targeted and less widespread.
from my Sec+ notes
This isn’t really a phishing attack since it was targeted to the individual and not just sent to a massive number of people.
This is the classic “overpayment and refund” scam, with an adder of “gift card” fraud.
Actually, this is the modern take on the cashed check scam.
This is 100% a prime example of spear phishing. It’s not a classic fishing attempt where the threat actor is trying to get the user to click a malicious link, but phishing none the less.
this is not and example of phishing. it's spoofing. sometimes phishing emails are also spoofed, but phishing is meant to get victims to send them private, confidential information, which this scam was not attempting
Scam, and a pretty common one that that, unfortunately. The email allegedly from Venmo saying you have to open a business account was not actually from them. There is never a situation where you should buy gift cards unless you’re using them yourself or for a gift for someone you know.
It's bad enough some stores literally train their employees to question people (especially older people) why they're buying high dollar amounts of gift cards.
I saw it happen in Safeway. An older woman was trying to buy $2000 worth of some gift cards. I heard the checker say, "Ma'am, no government agency is going to have you pay a debt with gift cards. This is a scam." It made me so happy that those POSs didn't get their money. There is a limit that triggers the checker to ask questions. I think it's $500? They should lower it to $200 IMO.
Saying that, there are still are people who will not listen. I tried to tell an old guy last month as he was buying hundreds of dollars in STEAM cards. He wouldnt listen. I think he was embarrassed and couldnt admit it.
I called them when I got home and told them what an awesome job they were doing. I also bought the checker a bag of peanut M&Ms, which she shared with me. Honestly, she deserved a monetary bonus.
Unfortunately, scammers know that and they train their victims to doubt bank tellers or store cashiers trying to help them, playing on their fear of losing financial autonomy (that person has no right to tell me what I can and cannot do with *my* money!) Sometimes they win.
They did with my grandma. "Tell them you're buying them for family"
So we're actually pissed off because she's super cheap and would never give money to family, but she would lie (so much for Christan values) and say she would.
It’s because people think retail workers are stupid. Seriously, the level of disdain I see thrown at cashiers and other attendants is insane.
Cashiers literally spend hundreds of hours helping people with Western Union and other money transfer applications, but any customer gets all bent out of shape the second they dare question their intent with gift card purchases and what not.
They get mad at banks, too. Bank employees actually doing their job get treated like garbage when they try to help people avoid scams. Customers really like to remind those employees that “it’s their money and they can spend it how they like.” It’s truly bizarre.
Until they find out it's a scam and then they blame the bank or the platform for not protecting them. I'd you give someone money it's on you. Oh and don't lie to the bank about it either. "I must have been hacked."
Pretty much any time you're sending back money somewhere, it's a scam. While I'm not super familiar with the specific workings of Venmo, I've worked in a bank for several years and have seen a handful of different kinds of scams. I would recommend you talk to your bank or speak with someone at Venmo and get clarification.
A lot of times they'll send you money from a stolen account or with fraudulent funds. Venmo might take a few days to return those funds but in that time, you've already sent real money back to the scammer.
You were already scammed. Try to drain the gift card right now with something like reloading your Amazon balance if the funds are still there, if not call the number on the gift card and dispute unauthorized charges -- do not admit you gave the card to any 3rd party.
If this is a visa/mastercard gift card call the # on the back of the card **right now**.
There may also be a website to check the balance.
If there is still a balance you need to act fast before the scammers drain the balance.
You could also try to contact Visa/Mastercard directly
https://usa.visa.com/contact-us.html#Call%20us
https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support.html
Yeah the money has been drained, there’s none left on the gift cards. I called vanilla visa and they said that I have to wait 1 week in order to get my money back because the transaction is still pending. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t know what to do.
It's the same thing with your bank cards you can't dispute until the charge is final. Note that dispute may or may not mean you get the money back. Technically you authorized the transaction by giving out the card info (but I wouldn't tell the bank that... just say the balance was drained when you went to use the new card)
Also follow up with UPS about the package. If you shipped through ups.com you may be able to login and redirect or hold the package.
I called them again and the transaction was settled so now I have to file a dispute. I called UPS and my package was delayed because of a mechanical error. They marked it as fraudulent and will keep it at the facility. In the morning I have to call my UPS store to get them to mail the package back to me.
Would it be worth it to file a police report??
If you are in the US, please also file with [ic3.gov](https://ic3.gov) \- the local cops aren't very equipped to deal with internet fraud, but that address is a federal site. While they may not directly recover your funds, the information from the header of the email and stuff may help them determine where the scam comes from and ultimately stop these types of scammers.
Also, if the scammer sent you a link to download Venmo or something like that, then you probably put your bank info in a spoofed app/site and need to change your bank account info (wherever you planned to have the funds deposited).
It always is, because sometimes the scammers are part of a bigger investigation, it will also serve as a form of proof towards your claim, in the sense that it would be a crime to file a false report.
Please be sure to triple check with UPS... the person on the phone may be able to get ahold of the facility it is at and verify that it is there - not always, but I've had them do it a couple of times (for missing packages that sat at the facility).
Doubtful on the police report. They are probably from India. There may be a middle man with a US address. Who knows if they would keep the stolen goods you mailed. But, absolutely nothing will come of it.
Look up the address you were supposed to send it to. Probably a back door business front in New Jersey or something.
There has always been shady scam artist like this.
> just say the balance was drained when you went to use the new card
Re-posting from above because this is your best chance to recover the lost funds. Try both with your own credit card AND the Visa gift card #. Depending on your state, there might be laws protecting your gift card purchase. Stick with the above to all you speak with. Good luck, OP! This scammer really sucks.
Stay on top of vanilla gift… they refunded me but it took ~ 6 months and me calling them once a week to check on progress. The disputes group is apparently pretty busy :/
It’s called a package intercept, there is a fee but it’s small, especially compared to the value of what you mailed. Call UPS and tell them you need an intercept.
Call the local police immediately where the address is it’s being shipped to. Chances are they do this a lot and it’s a house full of stolen goods, or it will lead them to one. It’s probably not THEIR address. It’s a random address and they will try to meet the driver there at the same time or right after. Have the cops meet them there instead. Whoever picks up the package is likely the thief.
Word of advice as someone who’s sold online for years including Amazon and Craigslist: set your payment requirements and accept no other terms from the buyer. Platform has a payment method? Force them to use it. Else scammers will do exactly what they’re doing here in order to claim both the item and more money than they put into.
Came here to say this. Whatever payment terms you have decided on, stick to them. Don’t change your mind because of some buyer’s sob story. Stick to your guns. You will sell the item on your terms, or none at all. Quickest way to get scammed is to accept another form of payment than what you were requesting.
Scam, I use venmo and have not had to do any of the above described.
Edit - the email you received from "venmo" is likely generated by the scammer, you can always verify by looking at the email address
> Edit - the email you received from "venmo" is likely generated by the scammer, you can always verify by looking at the email address
One caveat here is that the sender can spoof the "From" field to say whatever they want -- such as Venmo's actual email address -- so you need to look deeper into the email header if you want to be sure.
Advanced scammers get first dibs on open relays and then use them to send more curated scam messages.
While both Google and Microsoft have really good engines to block spam, given the relatively low amount of traffic being sent in a targeted scheme like this, it may not have exceeded the threshold for flagging yet.
Email from venmo should have a valid DKIM signature for venmo.com. If Google and Microsoft aren't checking this, they've failed spectacularly at their jobs.
Yea, scammers are good at what they do but there is not a way to trick an email service like gmail into delivering an email with a forged from header. Doesn’t matter how low the volume is. They’re verifiable.
You're not wrong, but plenty of cheap businesses are still running their own Q Mail or other mail servers.
If somebody were to send a message *from* Google mail services with a forged header, you're absolutely correct, it wouldn't se d 100% of the time. But if somebody finds an old Q Mail server with a high trust score, they can get away with using it for a bit.
(I will avoid the repeat what other said below)
One possible workaround could be to just abuse the "From" metadata part, not the email part.
When you read email you can see the company name or person full name in the "from" part, that what I meant by metadata part.
That part isn't validated in any mean. I could put I'm "Jeff Bezos".
Then, if you want you could also put "Jeff Bezo [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])" as my full name trying to trick the user I have two emails. That won,t fake the email origin from, if you look in detail it is likely to be like [random\[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
Then the giveaway in most case is always the reply-to, it will be a gmail account somehow.
And everything here is if then even try... all my email spam always come from odd domain name and at best the "from metadata" just contains the company name.
1. Facebook Marketplace tells you to specifically not use any platform but theirs for payment as they can not intervene if you choose to use another payment method.
2. Any time you get an email about payment, check the actual email address of the sender (not just the sender's name). You can easily change your name to "Venmo" and send someone else mail to make it look like it's from Venmo. But your email will still be your email.
3. Don't refund anything, because you haven't \*actually\* received anything.
Regarding #1, Facebook is also not guaranteed to intervene in scams-related disputes. I’m speaking as a buyer and not a seller, but I was scammed last week when I tried to buy an item and didn’t realize there was a difference between paying for the item on the Facebook Marketplace listing page versus paying for it in the listing messages using Facebook Pay. I had wrongly assumed the purchase was protected, so I was a little more trusting of the listing than I should have been.
It wasn’t as expensive a lesson as OP’s, but it did buy me a CE credit in Safe Online Purchases 101.
> Any time you get an email about payment, check the actual email address of the sender (not just the sender's name). You can easily change your name to "Venmo" and send someone else mail to make it look like it's from Venmo. But your email will still be your email.
**This is not true**. It's easy to fake the email address as well, so the email could appear to come from "Amazon.com" or whatever. This is called Email spoofing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_spoofing), and while some email providers employ countermeasures, the issue still very much exists.
Never trust the "From:" address. Go to the actual website yourself (not through a link in the email, type the address or search for it), look up the contact detail, and contact the site directly via phone or email to verify if an email is genuine.
> She sent me the $1200, but then Venmo sent me an email saying I couldn’t get the money because I didn’t have a business account, and that the buyer would have to send an additional $800 so I could have a total balance of $2000. I would then have to refund the $800 to the buyer via Zelle, Apple Pay, or a vanilla visa gift card. I went with the gift card and sent my buyer and Venmo pictures of it.
Now I am being told that my buyer needs to send an additional $1000 so I can get a Venmo certificate and receive my funds. I need to do the same thing as before and send yet another vanilla visa gift card …..
Does any of this actually make any logical sense to you? Venmo wont allow you to recieve $1200 unless you send someone pictures of giftcards?
Come on now.
Whatever money and or items you have given this scammer are gone.
Your money is gone. All you can do now is learn to never do it again and never trust anyone who comes up with shady stories. FB marketplace really is a breeding ground for these scammers
This right here - "I would then have to refund the $800 to the buyer via Zelle, Apple Pay, or a vanilla visa gift card."
Should have been a red flag from the start, why would venmo as for a third party transaction to "refund".
Yes someone tried this on me for a bike I was selling on FB marketplace. I could see where it was going, buyer sending me “extra” money to unrestrict my zelle account, then somehow I’d have to repay them the extra. I saw it coming and told them to get lost, so I never got to the gift card part. I wondered how that part was going to work. the emails from “Zelle” were initially pretty convincing until I looked at the actual underlying sender email that said “Zelle” but was really from something like “[email protected]”. Like zelle uses a gmail address LOL.
If it's the legit app, (not the scam link that OP received), as far as I know Venmo and zelle are probably the best option on the receiving side precisely because there's no way to recall the money.
On the sending money side, you want to use something that you can recall.
I think there might be some escrow like companies/services but I'm not sure if they are used widely
Someone Venmos you money with a stolen credit card. The card holder disputes the transaction. Do you think Venmo is going to eat the loss and let you keep the money?
Yes Venmo fights the credit card company for the charge back. I have not done it myself but from what I've heard, as long as you provide documentation venmo will revert the charge and put the money back in your account
Venmo fights the credit card companies for chargebacks on stolen credit cards? That isn’t going to happen. Non-business (free) Venmo should only be used with people you know and trust.
Scam.
Big scam. Classic scam.
The money likely doesn't exist, but they're "sending" it to you so you can send it back them and get stuck with the fraud charges when the computer systems catch up to the scammers and all they have is a bunch of money going in YOUR direction and disappearing.
If the buyer ever needs cash back, they can get a refund the same way they gave it to you, not via giftcard.
If you have something listed on FB marketplace don't ever do the payment outside of FB's marketplace. It's a hallmark of a scam if they ask to complete the sale off-site.
The moment I saw refund with Gift card, I knew it was a scam. Stop talking to this person. If you still have the visa gift card you need to call them to say to try and stop transactions on the card. Otherwise you'll need to use the funds ASAP, however I think by now, the money is drained.
Scam. The scammer sent you the email pretending to be from Venmo. No organization will ever ask you to settle debts with gift cards.
Please do not refund any money to the scammer because it’s possible the venmo money isn’t even real. They may be using a stolen account in which case the charge would be reversed.
Don’t refund anything to them. Don’t ship anything to them. Stop contacting them.
Yes, that's a scam and a very well known one. Do not send any refund, you'll lose your money.
I quit FB Marketplace due to all the scams with Venmo, Zelle, etc.
I would file a report. Not much they can do but if for some reason the person is caught later it would establish a time line. Note as many details as you can and printout any exchanges via email and text messages. Have the serial number of the laptop. Write out the timeline and take everything in. Don’t expect miracles but at least you will have done everything possible.
Really??? My bank and vanilla visa did not mention that. And if filing a police report isn’t gonna get me my money back then I don’t think it’s worth it to do it
A police report is always a good idea if the amount is significant enough. $2,000 easily reaches that threshold in my opinion.
Is it going to get you your money back? No probably not. It wasn't an error on the bank, processor or legal side, so you are not owed anything from them and unless it falls into their lap, they are not going to do much.
But, if it DOES fall into their lap at a later date (i.e. the scammer eventually messes up and police find scammed/stolen merchandise) they will cross-reference the laptop's serial number with prior reports and be able to maybe get it back to you. How long this takes is unknown, if it ever does happen--The chance is small.
However small, it is a chance. Not filing a police report strikes even that small chance off the table. It is also considerable leverage against the payment processors and banks, and while I don't think it's applicable in this exact situation, it is good to have regardless. There have been times where processors have ignored their mandated internal security checks and allowed transactions to happen, and a police report is the best (read, necessary) way to get the whole transaction examined. Without one they will just tell you to stuff it.
A police report is the official recognition that a crime took place. Without one, it's just you saying it happened, and no corporation is going to give you money based on that.
The sole value of filing a police report is the understanding that filing a false police report is a criminal offense. Banks and credit card processors may be inclined to believe your story, solely because you'd have to be incredibly stupid to say anything that isn't true on the police report.
But then again, you *did* fall for the scam. Don't make it worse by filing a false police report. Please ignore the advice others have given to suggest being less than totally candid with banks, credit card processors, or the police.
This is a textbook scam. They pretend to send you money (Always more than what you were supposed to receive) then you send the remainder back as untraceable gift cards.
Assuming you can convince your bank to refund the transaction they've already drained the gift cards so they got their money.
If someone ever, for any reason, asks you to give them money in a gift card format, you are being scammed.
As everyone else has said, yes this is a common scam.
NEVER SHIP ANYTHING WHEN SELLING ON FB MARKETPLACE! Meet up in public and accept cash only, EVER. FB is FULL of scammers.
Scam.
1. Never download a new payment app to receive payment. As easy as it was for you to get Venmo, it's just as easy for a buyer to download an app that you use to send payment.
2. Never send money to anyone in order to receive money or to pay for things other than your particular sale.
3. Any time someone says a gift card is an acceptable form of returning money, it's a scam. If any money has already been transferred and they ask for money back on a gift card, just cancel the transaction and move on.
4. Never sell anything on FB that is not going to be a cash transaction. You will still receive scam attempts, but just ignore any offers that are not cash transactions. "I really want it but we need to use "x" app" is an immediate red flag. If they really want it, they can find a way to get it done, otherwise they don't really want it.
I work close to payments/payment processing and this is a common scan. Sometimes it’s “I know I owe you 1000, but I’m going to send you 6000 and can you please pay the remaining 5000 to these people OR can you send that extra 5000 back?…” it’s essentially a way of “washing” ill gotten funds and making you bite the bullet on funds that will likely be returned to the victim(s) when a chargeback inevitably occurs. After that occurs, the chargeback hits your bank account and takes all 6000 and the 5000 you send you’re completely fucked on.
You just sold your macbook for $400. Venmo didn’t send you any email- have you tried transferring the funds to your bank account?
I am so sorry this happened to you op- but honesty, I can not believe how people still fall for these!!! 😫😫.
Edit: just read you got UPS to stop the package. Good on you!! I hope you truly get it back. And OP for the love of God never ever ship things before getting a clear payment. Never EVER EVER send money or gift cards back. Heck just sell things locally would be my advice for you (CASH OP CASH….. don’t take checks for what you sell locally!!!!Lol)
Since you've got the address the box is going to, you can also call the local police and inform them that you've got a box heading towards a scammer. They can go sit on the front porch and see who takes it, arrest them, and maybe you'll get a pretty reward for your trouble.
There was a really good youtube video on this sort of thing, involving a glitter bomb. It can get really, really deep, but if it's a single person op, then you can eliminate them as a source of trouble.
This is a common scam. Venmo would never ask you to refund anyone anything. It’s the scammer requesting this because the original transfer will bounce, your refund will be your own money you sent them and they’ll be long gone by then. So you’ll lose your $800. Don’t deal with this person!!
If you have to ask yourself if it’s a scam, it always is. Trust your gut kid.
Lesson here: never ever do transactions with anything else other than PayPal for purchases and invoice. Period. Don't ever send or accept payments via Venmo, Zelle, anything else unless it's literally for friends and family. If they want to buy something, send them a PayPal invoice. If you want to buy, pay as a PURCHASE via PayPal. In the e-commerce world, PayPal is like drinking water. Sorry to hear about your scam. It's not a good feeling.
You basically gave him a free MacBook. Try and look up the address you sent the MacBook too so you can get a name and phone numbers. And report it to the police.
Please don't accept Venmo for any kind of business transaction. I provided a service back in February to a client who paid with Venmo. About a month later the charge was disputed. I emailed her asking what was going on and she said that there were no issues with the service, her bank account was compromised and the bank had reversed all of her recent charges. I forwarded the email to Venmo along with our service contract and got an automated response saying the issue would be investigated and resolved in 30-75 days.
3 months go by, nothing from Venmo. I reach out again, reminding them that I have a signed contract with her along with an email from her saying that she was very happy with my services and that the chargeback was a bank error. Venmo sided with her and now I'm out $1,200. 🙃
A lot of the comments here are really mean-spirited. Like nobody on here made mistakes when you were 18 or younger? It’s sucks to get scammed and it can happen to anyone.
Im sorry you got taken advantage of like that, OP. This person was a criminal and I hope they end up in jail.
Except the point is that they weren't sent any money. They do an ACH transfer and then once they have the 'refunded' cash in hand they chargeback/cancel the original transfer before it clears. Though in reality it would have never cleared because the originating account probably has $0 in it, but it takes a few days for that to be determined by the ACH system. That 'lag time' is what allows this scam to work, sending money in a delayed fashion and then requiring the difference refunded in a cash-adjacent, instant withdrawal method.
If you were to withdraw what they sent you from your account, thinking "Haha, they can't chargeback cash!" the bank just deducts it from your remaining balance--Even better if it puts you into overdraft.
Yes, but don't, for one moment feel stupid/guilty/any other bad thing toward yourself. These people are good enough at their game that they catch people from every single walk of life, demographic or level of education.
To me, it speaks well of your character that you didn't assume instantly that this was a scam. These people are exactly that good at this. Unfortunately, people with principals, morals and a sense of responsibility are these evil peoples targets. It was wise of you to ask. If you can, keep raising awareness. If it hadn't been for people raising awareness, there would be so many more victims.
It is likely you are now on a list as someone who has fallen for a scam. Please be extra wary in the future (I know that goes without saying), but at the very least, keep vigilant of those around you who could get roped in.
So, you access the funds the same way that you ordered a gift card and sent it. Why can't you add that remaining $1200 to another gift card? It would be exactly the same. You just then use the gift card for yourself and don't hand over any money. You then have your $1200. I don't u deratand why you could access $800 but not the remaining $1200.
Hello everyone! It seems that we are getting a lot of visitors that aren't familiar with /r/personalfinance and [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules). If you're new to this subreddit, the basic version: **Please treat others with respect and stay on-topic**. OP now knows they were scammed. Posting raw criticism, shaming them, or anything that doesn't help them either resolve the issue or help prevent the issue in the future is not allowed. We are a community that exists to help people learn about their finances. Shaming people for posting only serves to drive people away. You can educate without shaming and that is the behavior expected of all who use this sub.
If you're sending someone money when they owe you money, it's a scam.
This. Please walk away from this as soon as possible.
This is a great way to put it. Very succinct and on point. Also if you have to pay money to get money it's a scam as well.
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> Venmo sent me an email Venmo did not send you an email. The **scammer** sent you an email to make it look like it's from Venmo.
This x1000. Going to bet the email address that came from is Venmo.con or something just slightly wrong with it.
Venmo_customersupport.net - very believable. Here’s a helpful hint to sniff out fake emails. The @companyname.com domain is often the exact same as the URL for their website. If you copy paste the domain into a browser and it comes up with something other than the company’s proper website, it’s a bogus email.
>This is an example of a phishing attack. Phishing is the fraudulent practice of sending emails and pretending to be from a reputable company in order to trick users into revealing personal information, such as passwords and credit card numbers. This email appears to be untargeted since it was sent to both customers and non-customers of this particular bank; it is best classified as phishing. Spear phishing requires the attack to be more targeted and less widespread. from my Sec+ notes
Maybe spear phishing, but it's more a continuation of the scam.
Yeah you're right. This is more of a targeted attack rather than see who I catch attack
it's not phishing at all ,the scammer wasn't looking to get any information from the victim.
This isn’t really a phishing attack since it was targeted to the individual and not just sent to a massive number of people. This is the classic “overpayment and refund” scam, with an adder of “gift card” fraud.
Targeted phishing is still phishing. Doesn't have to be mass for the term to apply. Semantics, though.
Actually, this is the modern take on the cashed check scam. This is 100% a prime example of spear phishing. It’s not a classic fishing attempt where the threat actor is trying to get the user to click a malicious link, but phishing none the less.
this is not and example of phishing. it's spoofing. sometimes phishing emails are also spoofed, but phishing is meant to get victims to send them private, confidential information, which this scam was not attempting
Vemno.com
Scam, and a pretty common one that that, unfortunately. The email allegedly from Venmo saying you have to open a business account was not actually from them. There is never a situation where you should buy gift cards unless you’re using them yourself or for a gift for someone you know.
Literally anything including gift cards, automatic scam alert.
It's bad enough some stores literally train their employees to question people (especially older people) why they're buying high dollar amounts of gift cards.
I saw it happen in Safeway. An older woman was trying to buy $2000 worth of some gift cards. I heard the checker say, "Ma'am, no government agency is going to have you pay a debt with gift cards. This is a scam." It made me so happy that those POSs didn't get their money. There is a limit that triggers the checker to ask questions. I think it's $500? They should lower it to $200 IMO.
All the stores around me with large selections of gift cards have put up signs warning about the gift card scams on the displays.
Saying that, there are still are people who will not listen. I tried to tell an old guy last month as he was buying hundreds of dollars in STEAM cards. He wouldnt listen. I think he was embarrassed and couldnt admit it.
Well done Safeway employee!
I called them when I got home and told them what an awesome job they were doing. I also bought the checker a bag of peanut M&Ms, which she shared with me. Honestly, she deserved a monetary bonus.
Unfortunately, scammers know that and they train their victims to doubt bank tellers or store cashiers trying to help them, playing on their fear of losing financial autonomy (that person has no right to tell me what I can and cannot do with *my* money!) Sometimes they win.
They did with my grandma. "Tell them you're buying them for family" So we're actually pissed off because she's super cheap and would never give money to family, but she would lie (so much for Christan values) and say she would.
It’s because people think retail workers are stupid. Seriously, the level of disdain I see thrown at cashiers and other attendants is insane. Cashiers literally spend hundreds of hours helping people with Western Union and other money transfer applications, but any customer gets all bent out of shape the second they dare question their intent with gift card purchases and what not.
They get mad at banks, too. Bank employees actually doing their job get treated like garbage when they try to help people avoid scams. Customers really like to remind those employees that “it’s their money and they can spend it how they like.” It’s truly bizarre.
Until they find out it's a scam and then they blame the bank or the platform for not protecting them. I'd you give someone money it's on you. Oh and don't lie to the bank about it either. "I must have been hacked."
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Pretty much any time you're sending back money somewhere, it's a scam. While I'm not super familiar with the specific workings of Venmo, I've worked in a bank for several years and have seen a handful of different kinds of scams. I would recommend you talk to your bank or speak with someone at Venmo and get clarification. A lot of times they'll send you money from a stolen account or with fraudulent funds. Venmo might take a few days to return those funds but in that time, you've already sent real money back to the scammer.
You were already scammed. Try to drain the gift card right now with something like reloading your Amazon balance if the funds are still there, if not call the number on the gift card and dispute unauthorized charges -- do not admit you gave the card to any 3rd party.
Trying to get my bank to cancel it. What can I do about my MacBook? I already shipped it. Can I call UPS to try and get it back?
Give them a call. They may be able to turn it around for a fee.
If it hasn’t been delivered yet, ABSOLUTELY call them! NOW! You can get it back!
If this is a visa/mastercard gift card call the # on the back of the card **right now**. There may also be a website to check the balance. If there is still a balance you need to act fast before the scammers drain the balance. You could also try to contact Visa/Mastercard directly https://usa.visa.com/contact-us.html#Call%20us https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support.html
Yeah the money has been drained, there’s none left on the gift cards. I called vanilla visa and they said that I have to wait 1 week in order to get my money back because the transaction is still pending. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t know what to do.
It's the same thing with your bank cards you can't dispute until the charge is final. Note that dispute may or may not mean you get the money back. Technically you authorized the transaction by giving out the card info (but I wouldn't tell the bank that... just say the balance was drained when you went to use the new card) Also follow up with UPS about the package. If you shipped through ups.com you may be able to login and redirect or hold the package.
I called them again and the transaction was settled so now I have to file a dispute. I called UPS and my package was delayed because of a mechanical error. They marked it as fraudulent and will keep it at the facility. In the morning I have to call my UPS store to get them to mail the package back to me. Would it be worth it to file a police report??
Yes.
Really? How?
Call your local police non-emergency line on Monday and explain you got scammed online and would like to file a report.
Okay, I guess it can’t hurt
You reporting can help prevent this from happening to someone else.
Call the police.
You shouldn’t sell anything to anyone - at all - if you don’t even know how to contact the police to file a report.
If you are in the US, please also file with [ic3.gov](https://ic3.gov) \- the local cops aren't very equipped to deal with internet fraud, but that address is a federal site. While they may not directly recover your funds, the information from the header of the email and stuff may help them determine where the scam comes from and ultimately stop these types of scammers. Also, if the scammer sent you a link to download Venmo or something like that, then you probably put your bank info in a spoofed app/site and need to change your bank account info (wherever you planned to have the funds deposited).
It always is, because sometimes the scammers are part of a bigger investigation, it will also serve as a form of proof towards your claim, in the sense that it would be a crime to file a false report. Please be sure to triple check with UPS... the person on the phone may be able to get ahold of the facility it is at and verify that it is there - not always, but I've had them do it a couple of times (for missing packages that sat at the facility).
Doubtful on the police report. They are probably from India. There may be a middle man with a US address. Who knows if they would keep the stolen goods you mailed. But, absolutely nothing will come of it. Look up the address you were supposed to send it to. Probably a back door business front in New Jersey or something. There has always been shady scam artist like this.
Theyve been known to use airBnB as well for dropoffs
It doesn't hurt, but I doubt it'll help. The people you're dealing with probably gave fake names
> just say the balance was drained when you went to use the new card Re-posting from above because this is your best chance to recover the lost funds. Try both with your own credit card AND the Visa gift card #. Depending on your state, there might be laws protecting your gift card purchase. Stick with the above to all you speak with. Good luck, OP! This scammer really sucks.
Stay on top of vanilla gift… they refunded me but it took ~ 6 months and me calling them once a week to check on progress. The disputes group is apparently pretty busy :/
Hey at least you're getting it back. And if you make a UPS account online literally right now, you should be able to get your laptop back.
It’s called a package intercept, there is a fee but it’s small, especially compared to the value of what you mailed. Call UPS and tell them you need an intercept.
Yes call UPS and explain the situation and initiate a return to sender request immediately!!
YES! Call UPS ASAP!! They can intercept the package.
Yes, call UPS. Not sure what they will do, but worth a shot.
Contact UPS give them the tracking number and make them aware some fraudulent activities. Tell them not to deliver, return to sender.
Call the local police immediately where the address is it’s being shipped to. Chances are they do this a lot and it’s a house full of stolen goods, or it will lead them to one. It’s probably not THEIR address. It’s a random address and they will try to meet the driver there at the same time or right after. Have the cops meet them there instead. Whoever picks up the package is likely the thief.
UPS is easy to redirect your package online. Make an account online asap and you should be able to find your package and redirect it right away.
You can always try
Please contact UPS immediately and have them intercept the package.
Yes call them immediately
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Don't lie to gift card processor. It won't help your case, and could get you in hotter water.
Exactly, no reason to start lying along with everything else.
Word of advice as someone who’s sold online for years including Amazon and Craigslist: set your payment requirements and accept no other terms from the buyer. Platform has a payment method? Force them to use it. Else scammers will do exactly what they’re doing here in order to claim both the item and more money than they put into.
Came here to say this. Whatever payment terms you have decided on, stick to them. Don’t change your mind because of some buyer’s sob story. Stick to your guns. You will sell the item on your terms, or none at all. Quickest way to get scammed is to accept another form of payment than what you were requesting.
If you're at the point where you're asking yourself "is this a scam?" it almost definitely is one.
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Total scam. You just sent someone $800.
And a MacBook!
Plus 1k (read the second part)
Scam, I use venmo and have not had to do any of the above described. Edit - the email you received from "venmo" is likely generated by the scammer, you can always verify by looking at the email address
> Edit - the email you received from "venmo" is likely generated by the scammer, you can always verify by looking at the email address One caveat here is that the sender can spoof the "From" field to say whatever they want -- such as Venmo's actual email address -- so you need to look deeper into the email header if you want to be sure.
One of the worst things email programs did was to stop showing the originating email in full by default. Madness.
No halfway decent email client would ever not mark that as spam. It probably wouldn’t even make it to your spam folder.
Advanced scammers get first dibs on open relays and then use them to send more curated scam messages. While both Google and Microsoft have really good engines to block spam, given the relatively low amount of traffic being sent in a targeted scheme like this, it may not have exceeded the threshold for flagging yet.
Email from venmo should have a valid DKIM signature for venmo.com. If Google and Microsoft aren't checking this, they've failed spectacularly at their jobs.
Yea, scammers are good at what they do but there is not a way to trick an email service like gmail into delivering an email with a forged from header. Doesn’t matter how low the volume is. They’re verifiable.
You're not wrong, but plenty of cheap businesses are still running their own Q Mail or other mail servers. If somebody were to send a message *from* Google mail services with a forged header, you're absolutely correct, it wouldn't se d 100% of the time. But if somebody finds an old Q Mail server with a high trust score, they can get away with using it for a bit.
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(I will avoid the repeat what other said below) One possible workaround could be to just abuse the "From" metadata part, not the email part. When you read email you can see the company name or person full name in the "from" part, that what I meant by metadata part. That part isn't validated in any mean. I could put I'm "Jeff Bezos". Then, if you want you could also put "Jeff Bezo [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])" as my full name trying to trick the user I have two emails. That won,t fake the email origin from, if you look in detail it is likely to be like [random\[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). Then the giveaway in most case is always the reply-to, it will be a gmail account somehow. And everything here is if then even try... all my email spam always come from odd domain name and at best the "from metadata" just contains the company name.
To expand, they might spoof what it shows as, but if you hit "Reply" it will show the full e-mail and it will look...weird.
1. Facebook Marketplace tells you to specifically not use any platform but theirs for payment as they can not intervene if you choose to use another payment method. 2. Any time you get an email about payment, check the actual email address of the sender (not just the sender's name). You can easily change your name to "Venmo" and send someone else mail to make it look like it's from Venmo. But your email will still be your email. 3. Don't refund anything, because you haven't \*actually\* received anything.
Regarding #1, Facebook is also not guaranteed to intervene in scams-related disputes. I’m speaking as a buyer and not a seller, but I was scammed last week when I tried to buy an item and didn’t realize there was a difference between paying for the item on the Facebook Marketplace listing page versus paying for it in the listing messages using Facebook Pay. I had wrongly assumed the purchase was protected, so I was a little more trusting of the listing than I should have been. It wasn’t as expensive a lesson as OP’s, but it did buy me a CE credit in Safe Online Purchases 101.
> Any time you get an email about payment, check the actual email address of the sender (not just the sender's name). You can easily change your name to "Venmo" and send someone else mail to make it look like it's from Venmo. But your email will still be your email. **This is not true**. It's easy to fake the email address as well, so the email could appear to come from "Amazon.com" or whatever. This is called Email spoofing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_spoofing), and while some email providers employ countermeasures, the issue still very much exists. Never trust the "From:" address. Go to the actual website yourself (not through a link in the email, type the address or search for it), look up the contact detail, and contact the site directly via phone or email to verify if an email is genuine.
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I would argue you shouldn't use Venmo to receive money unless it's from a trusted source like a friend. Sending money is fine tho.
Scam. Highly doubtful that any of those emails are actually coming from Venmo. If you sent any money over already, that money is gone.
> She sent me the $1200, but then Venmo sent me an email saying I couldn’t get the money because I didn’t have a business account, and that the buyer would have to send an additional $800 so I could have a total balance of $2000. I would then have to refund the $800 to the buyer via Zelle, Apple Pay, or a vanilla visa gift card. I went with the gift card and sent my buyer and Venmo pictures of it. Now I am being told that my buyer needs to send an additional $1000 so I can get a Venmo certificate and receive my funds. I need to do the same thing as before and send yet another vanilla visa gift card ….. Does any of this actually make any logical sense to you? Venmo wont allow you to recieve $1200 unless you send someone pictures of giftcards? Come on now. Whatever money and or items you have given this scammer are gone.
Apple Pay, Zelle, and gift cards are non refundable. There’s a reason scammers use them.
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Anyone claiming you need a business account to send you money is a fraud
Your money is gone. All you can do now is learn to never do it again and never trust anyone who comes up with shady stories. FB marketplace really is a breeding ground for these scammers
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How do you think this is an appropriate comment here? Stay helpful and respectful in all interactions or don't comment. Thanks.
This right here - "I would then have to refund the $800 to the buyer via Zelle, Apple Pay, or a vanilla visa gift card." Should have been a red flag from the start, why would venmo as for a third party transaction to "refund".
As a general rule of thumb, if you have to ask if you are being scammed, it is a safe bet that you probably are.
Yes someone tried this on me for a bike I was selling on FB marketplace. I could see where it was going, buyer sending me “extra” money to unrestrict my zelle account, then somehow I’d have to repay them the extra. I saw it coming and told them to get lost, so I never got to the gift card part. I wondered how that part was going to work. the emails from “Zelle” were initially pretty convincing until I looked at the actual underlying sender email that said “Zelle” but was really from something like “[email protected]”. Like zelle uses a gmail address LOL.
Using Venmo or Zelle with someone you personally don’t know is a big mistake.
I've used zelle to tell small items in person from LetGo and it's been alright. I wouldn't do it online.
If it's the legit app, (not the scam link that OP received), as far as I know Venmo and zelle are probably the best option on the receiving side precisely because there's no way to recall the money. On the sending money side, you want to use something that you can recall. I think there might be some escrow like companies/services but I'm not sure if they are used widely
Someone Venmos you money with a stolen credit card. The card holder disputes the transaction. Do you think Venmo is going to eat the loss and let you keep the money?
Yes Venmo fights the credit card company for the charge back. I have not done it myself but from what I've heard, as long as you provide documentation venmo will revert the charge and put the money back in your account
Venmo fights the credit card companies for chargebacks on stolen credit cards? That isn’t going to happen. Non-business (free) Venmo should only be used with people you know and trust.
I used Zelle to buy some stuff from Reddit. But it's always small amounts and I know the risk that the seller is just a scammer and my money is gone.
Scam. Big scam. Classic scam. The money likely doesn't exist, but they're "sending" it to you so you can send it back them and get stuck with the fraud charges when the computer systems catch up to the scammers and all they have is a bunch of money going in YOUR direction and disappearing. If the buyer ever needs cash back, they can get a refund the same way they gave it to you, not via giftcard.
If you have something listed on FB marketplace don't ever do the payment outside of FB's marketplace. It's a hallmark of a scam if they ask to complete the sale off-site.
The moment I saw refund with Gift card, I knew it was a scam. Stop talking to this person. If you still have the visa gift card you need to call them to say to try and stop transactions on the card. Otherwise you'll need to use the funds ASAP, however I think by now, the money is drained.
Anything with posting in gift cards, is a scam.
if you are asking here, then the answer is yes, you have been scammed.
Yes, you've been scammed. Sorry. Good luck.
scam...K.I.S.S. keep it simple stoop. there r other customers...
anything involving a gift card as payment is a scam.
Scam. The scammer sent you the email pretending to be from Venmo. No organization will ever ask you to settle debts with gift cards. Please do not refund any money to the scammer because it’s possible the venmo money isn’t even real. They may be using a stolen account in which case the charge would be reversed. Don’t refund anything to them. Don’t ship anything to them. Stop contacting them.
Expensive laptop? Sell in person for cash in a safe place. Why on earth would you ship that to somebody and risk chargebacks and scams?
Yes, that's a scam and a very well known one. Do not send any refund, you'll lose your money. I quit FB Marketplace due to all the scams with Venmo, Zelle, etc.
Contact a postal inspector as this is mail fraud. Also if fraudulent over state lines also a federal offense.
Should I go to the police about this?
I would file a report. Not much they can do but if for some reason the person is caught later it would establish a time line. Note as many details as you can and printout any exchanges via email and text messages. Have the serial number of the laptop. Write out the timeline and take everything in. Don’t expect miracles but at least you will have done everything possible.
You need the police report to help with the bank/gift card returning your money…
Really??? My bank and vanilla visa did not mention that. And if filing a police report isn’t gonna get me my money back then I don’t think it’s worth it to do it
A police report is always a good idea if the amount is significant enough. $2,000 easily reaches that threshold in my opinion. Is it going to get you your money back? No probably not. It wasn't an error on the bank, processor or legal side, so you are not owed anything from them and unless it falls into their lap, they are not going to do much. But, if it DOES fall into their lap at a later date (i.e. the scammer eventually messes up and police find scammed/stolen merchandise) they will cross-reference the laptop's serial number with prior reports and be able to maybe get it back to you. How long this takes is unknown, if it ever does happen--The chance is small. However small, it is a chance. Not filing a police report strikes even that small chance off the table. It is also considerable leverage against the payment processors and banks, and while I don't think it's applicable in this exact situation, it is good to have regardless. There have been times where processors have ignored their mandated internal security checks and allowed transactions to happen, and a police report is the best (read, necessary) way to get the whole transaction examined. Without one they will just tell you to stuff it. A police report is the official recognition that a crime took place. Without one, it's just you saying it happened, and no corporation is going to give you money based on that.
The sole value of filing a police report is the understanding that filing a false police report is a criminal offense. Banks and credit card processors may be inclined to believe your story, solely because you'd have to be incredibly stupid to say anything that isn't true on the police report. But then again, you *did* fall for the scam. Don't make it worse by filing a false police report. Please ignore the advice others have given to suggest being less than totally candid with banks, credit card processors, or the police.
This is a textbook scam. They pretend to send you money (Always more than what you were supposed to receive) then you send the remainder back as untraceable gift cards. Assuming you can convince your bank to refund the transaction they've already drained the gift cards so they got their money. If someone ever, for any reason, asks you to give them money in a gift card format, you are being scammed.
Why wild venmo make you send payment outside of venmo? SCAM
Thanks for posting this. It sucks to get scammed, but by reading things like this I was able to avoid a similar scam. Best of luck!
This is a good reason I never buy or sell something that I can't physically pick up or hand to a person in exchange for cash.
As everyone else has said, yes this is a common scam. NEVER SHIP ANYTHING WHEN SELLING ON FB MARKETPLACE! Meet up in public and accept cash only, EVER. FB is FULL of scammers.
Venmo would never send you an email saying any of that, so yes, it’s a scam and that’s not a real buyer
Rule to live by - if you have to ask am I being scammed - the answer is - abso-freaking-lutely
Scam. 1. Never download a new payment app to receive payment. As easy as it was for you to get Venmo, it's just as easy for a buyer to download an app that you use to send payment. 2. Never send money to anyone in order to receive money or to pay for things other than your particular sale. 3. Any time someone says a gift card is an acceptable form of returning money, it's a scam. If any money has already been transferred and they ask for money back on a gift card, just cancel the transaction and move on. 4. Never sell anything on FB that is not going to be a cash transaction. You will still receive scam attempts, but just ignore any offers that are not cash transactions. "I really want it but we need to use "x" app" is an immediate red flag. If they really want it, they can find a way to get it done, otherwise they don't really want it.
I work close to payments/payment processing and this is a common scan. Sometimes it’s “I know I owe you 1000, but I’m going to send you 6000 and can you please pay the remaining 5000 to these people OR can you send that extra 5000 back?…” it’s essentially a way of “washing” ill gotten funds and making you bite the bullet on funds that will likely be returned to the victim(s) when a chargeback inevitably occurs. After that occurs, the chargeback hits your bank account and takes all 6000 and the 5000 you send you’re completely fucked on.
“…had all her money in Venmo”??? What does that even mean? Yes! It’s a scam!
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You just sold your macbook for $400. Venmo didn’t send you any email- have you tried transferring the funds to your bank account? I am so sorry this happened to you op- but honesty, I can not believe how people still fall for these!!! 😫😫. Edit: just read you got UPS to stop the package. Good on you!! I hope you truly get it back. And OP for the love of God never ever ship things before getting a clear payment. Never EVER EVER send money or gift cards back. Heck just sell things locally would be my advice for you (CASH OP CASH….. don’t take checks for what you sell locally!!!!Lol)
More like they tried to give someone $800 + their macbook for nothing in return.
Since you've got the address the box is going to, you can also call the local police and inform them that you've got a box heading towards a scammer. They can go sit on the front porch and see who takes it, arrest them, and maybe you'll get a pretty reward for your trouble.
There was a really good youtube video on this sort of thing, involving a glitter bomb. It can get really, really deep, but if it's a single person op, then you can eliminate them as a source of trouble.
The more funny ones are the cockroach releasing boxes, so the scammer gets a hundred cockroaches in the face when they open it.
This is a common scam. Venmo would never ask you to refund anyone anything. It’s the scammer requesting this because the original transfer will bounce, your refund will be your own money you sent them and they’ll be long gone by then. So you’ll lose your $800. Don’t deal with this person!! If you have to ask yourself if it’s a scam, it always is. Trust your gut kid.
All a scam. The email wasn't from venmo in the first place. You just sent some guy a gift card. Very common scam, see it here constantly.
Lesson here: never ever do transactions with anything else other than PayPal for purchases and invoice. Period. Don't ever send or accept payments via Venmo, Zelle, anything else unless it's literally for friends and family. If they want to buy something, send them a PayPal invoice. If you want to buy, pay as a PURCHASE via PayPal. In the e-commerce world, PayPal is like drinking water. Sorry to hear about your scam. It's not a good feeling.
You basically gave him a free MacBook. Try and look up the address you sent the MacBook too so you can get a name and phone numbers. And report it to the police.
No transactions take this long. Take it from my experience e. You are being scammed. Refer to treemugger420’s comment.
Please don't accept Venmo for any kind of business transaction. I provided a service back in February to a client who paid with Venmo. About a month later the charge was disputed. I emailed her asking what was going on and she said that there were no issues with the service, her bank account was compromised and the bank had reversed all of her recent charges. I forwarded the email to Venmo along with our service contract and got an automated response saying the issue would be investigated and resolved in 30-75 days. 3 months go by, nothing from Venmo. I reach out again, reminding them that I have a signed contract with her along with an email from her saying that she was very happy with my services and that the chargeback was a bank error. Venmo sided with her and now I'm out $1,200. 🙃
If you are asking Reddit if it is a scam it is almost always a scam. I say almost even though I have never seen an exception to this rule.
I feel like if the thought “am I being scammed on Venmo?” enters your mind, you are being scammed
No such thing as a free education. Consider it a good investment and be more cautious as you move forward.
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A lot of the comments here are really mean-spirited. Like nobody on here made mistakes when you were 18 or younger? It’s sucks to get scammed and it can happen to anyone. Im sorry you got taken advantage of like that, OP. This person was a criminal and I hope they end up in jail.
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It's a scam. You should have reverse scammed them and just kept the money.
How do you do that? They probably didn’t send the money in the first place
Except the point is that they weren't sent any money. They do an ACH transfer and then once they have the 'refunded' cash in hand they chargeback/cancel the original transfer before it clears. Though in reality it would have never cleared because the originating account probably has $0 in it, but it takes a few days for that to be determined by the ACH system. That 'lag time' is what allows this scam to work, sending money in a delayed fashion and then requiring the difference refunded in a cash-adjacent, instant withdrawal method. If you were to withdraw what they sent you from your account, thinking "Haha, they can't chargeback cash!" the bank just deducts it from your remaining balance--Even better if it puts you into overdraft.
Yeah, a definite scam. Sorry that happened to ya. Gotta go with your gut.
Yes, but don't, for one moment feel stupid/guilty/any other bad thing toward yourself. These people are good enough at their game that they catch people from every single walk of life, demographic or level of education. To me, it speaks well of your character that you didn't assume instantly that this was a scam. These people are exactly that good at this. Unfortunately, people with principals, morals and a sense of responsibility are these evil peoples targets. It was wise of you to ask. If you can, keep raising awareness. If it hadn't been for people raising awareness, there would be so many more victims. It is likely you are now on a list as someone who has fallen for a scam. Please be extra wary in the future (I know that goes without saying), but at the very least, keep vigilant of those around you who could get roped in.
So, you access the funds the same way that you ordered a gift card and sent it. Why can't you add that remaining $1200 to another gift card? It would be exactly the same. You just then use the gift card for yourself and don't hand over any money. You then have your $1200. I don't u deratand why you could access $800 but not the remaining $1200.
If you sell on eBay you receive protections. I recommend that over doing it other ways. Yes it costs a bit but it is worth it on high value items.