I’m definitely calling this hand, since we beat some value. People attack mono boards quite a bit, so not surprised to see the flop raise over tiny sizing or the river jam. I think most of his flushes bet turn to setup cleaner river jam. Agree with others that this is a pretty wonky line.
Results: >!Villain shows K6 of spades!<
>! Villains line of raise/check/shove doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, it seems like there’s very little value that wants to take that line. I figured it would be spazz a bunch of the time.!<
>! I think I would call ATs and better here and expect to see some sort of garbage a lot of the time!<
Only hand I can see villain taking that line is with A5o with the Ad. Got equity on the flop with the straight draw and the nut flush draw. Turn doesn't help, checks behind. Rivers the straight, has the Ad to block the nut flush.
Monoboard in 3bp is such a rare spot that it's not worth spending time on.
Your opponents line makes no sense, on flop he should just play call/fold - for that reason I assume he's a recreational? If that is the case he's extremely strong as those raises are generally underbluffed by fish.
Flop as played but already hating life.
Turn as played - villain check back makes me much happier as I assume he would bet most flushes on turn.
River due to his capped range after turn x I would donk for a block sizing and fold to the shove raise as shoving in that line is super underbluffed. The donk would 100% get called by worse sets and some very overplayed pairs if he's stationy.
If I did go with your line on a good day I would find the fold. But I don't hate the call as your river x seems weak, and so It wouldn't be incomprehensible for him to raise some Ad hand flop - check turn and bluff river, but way too often this is just the nuts played awfully IMO - so honestly pure folding river can't be bad.
I kind of thought the same thing. Flop raise can be fish that actually has it or a good player making a move against 1/7th pot cbet.
I would have called bc villains line doesn’t make sense as you pointed out.
I assure you this isn’t a rec, far more likely it’s a good reg that’s exploiting pool tendencies to block then fold on these flops
His turn xb absolutely does not cap him
Calling insanely wide OTR here bc of reg dynamics but again he has tons of flushes here
He absolutely isn’t capping his range, not at this Spr,
that’s just not really debatable tbh, he’ll have plenty of flush in xback
That doesn’t mean regs don’t overbluff here regardless. The two are semi related by pure combinatorics but they’re not at all one to one
And I don’t want to go ad hominem but if you’re suggesting “mid size” bet fold at 1.5 SPR as a standard practice then we don’t really need to talk strategy, unless you specifically mean block fold which you don’t and again never folding this combo
Flushes would almost certainly be a high frequency bet on this turn. while his range may not be litterly capped most players would not sufficiently balance their x range here. This happens in so many situations at mid stakes and below.
> if you’re suggesting bet fold at 1.5 SPR
This happens even in a solver, I can find you numerous examples... In reality from the data I have seen it should be printing in this situation also.
>That doesn’t mean regs don’t overbluff here regardless. The two are semi related by pure combinatorics but they’re not at all one to one
True.
I will say I didn’t see 65s and a5s get there which prob disproportionately benefit his river value
But I’m surprised we would disagree this is likely a reg. Fish just don’t find these sizings unless it’s broken clock right twice a day
In general fish a very transparent with their sizings. Large sizings contain much more value than the smaller sizings, so whenever I see massive raises from a fish I am suspicious regardless of the board. But ofc every whale is unique.
This guy might not be a fish tho
It's an interesting spot at least. Most of the hand histories people post here are polarized to either pure coolers or omega punts. It's nice to see a post that has a merged range.
I don't remember where I heard this, but I remember seeing/being told when someone takes a weird line that doesn't make a ton of sense it is usually weighted towards value. I'm not folding your hand here, and I agree with everyone saying that calling TX w a diamond + can't be too bad. I have a feeling your opponent is very unbalanced in one way or another in this line though.
Yeah I'm not sure. Like if this hand were against Linus or some other high stakes end boss I wouldn't come here and say "well he took a weird line so I think he's weighted toward value 🤓"
I'm not sure exactly what stake the cutoff is though, where the regs are able to take creative lines and still be balanced.
Hm okay, that changes things. At the same time, villains line is extremely odd, and you played it very passively, so can come across as quite weak. But the raise flop, check brick turn, 1.5x overbet relative brick river is so odd. Most value would continue on turn.
It seems like Adx, that bluffs at the end. Only thing that gets there is A5s and 56s that did not flop flushes, which is 6 combos.
I would say defend top of range, so overpairs, J &Tx?
Weakest hand being like AdT?
Tbh I always get a little lost in those spots. Ad is good on the flop bc it gives us more equity. Typically when facing river decisions, we want cards with a diamond bc it blocks their flush combos.
But yes I agree, Ad takes away their most logical bluff combos, although they shouldn't have that many offsuit Ax they call a 3b with here. Maybe Adtx,.Adjx, AdQx? AdK should 4b preflop near 100%. Even AdQ should 4b pre at some rate in this config.
Yeah, I mean I would personally 4b AJo and AQo, and sometimes 4b but mostly fold ATo, but it would not shock me if someone were to show up in this line with some AdQx or AdJx...
It's a really weird spot though because he really shouldn't have many offsuit non-pair hands at all. So his bluffs would have to be some random stuff, unless he is turning some of those pairs into a bluff. But why would some random airball check the turn? Maybe he could have something like KQs that turns just enough equity that it doesn't want to get jammed on?
The more I think about it though I think you might be right. Because he can't really have too much offsuit Ax to bluff with I think it is better to just block value.
I'm just not sure at all what the xb is on the turn from villain given the raise on the flop.
There are 50BB in the pot and you each have like 75ish behind? What are we doing here folks.
To me it would be incredibly tough to not assume that the xb caps his range and limits the amount of flushes he can have. I would probably not bet OOP on the river myself; I don't think his line screams Ax with the Ace of Spades or missed combo draw enough to actually put it in. On a good day, I probably tank for a really long time and just lay it down. If a fish is putting his entire stack at risk to get me off a hand, let me just live to fight another day and we'll see what happens when he does it again.
Entirely villain-dependent spot, especially at 2NL.
I'm waiting towards calling top set with this action and runout, but if the player is anywhere near nitty, I'm folding everything except T-high flushes+.
If a player is has any capacity to bluff, especially without the right blockers, I'd call KTo+, QTo with the queen of diamonds, probably. If they bluff with the right blockers, the only real adjustment I'd make is folding AT with the Ace of diamonds.
Yeah probably any pair with a good diamond, idk if your set really matters much here since he's basically saying he's got a flush or nothing
Well Id fold 3x and 4x here cause you even lose to a good chunk of his bluffs at that point. Any T or J is a call though
I’m definitely calling this hand, since we beat some value. People attack mono boards quite a bit, so not surprised to see the flop raise over tiny sizing or the river jam. I think most of his flushes bet turn to setup cleaner river jam. Agree with others that this is a pretty wonky line.
Results: >!Villain shows K6 of spades!< >! Villains line of raise/check/shove doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, it seems like there’s very little value that wants to take that line. I figured it would be spazz a bunch of the time.!< >! I think I would call ATs and better here and expect to see some sort of garbage a lot of the time!<
Only hand I can see villain taking that line is with A5o with the Ad. Got equity on the flop with the straight draw and the nut flush draw. Turn doesn't help, checks behind. Rivers the straight, has the Ad to block the nut flush.
I don’t know but I’m snap calling with my set of 10s after he checks back the turn. I’d be decently surprised if you lost given how the action went
Monoboard in 3bp is such a rare spot that it's not worth spending time on. Your opponents line makes no sense, on flop he should just play call/fold - for that reason I assume he's a recreational? If that is the case he's extremely strong as those raises are generally underbluffed by fish. Flop as played but already hating life. Turn as played - villain check back makes me much happier as I assume he would bet most flushes on turn. River due to his capped range after turn x I would donk for a block sizing and fold to the shove raise as shoving in that line is super underbluffed. The donk would 100% get called by worse sets and some very overplayed pairs if he's stationy. If I did go with your line on a good day I would find the fold. But I don't hate the call as your river x seems weak, and so It wouldn't be incomprehensible for him to raise some Ad hand flop - check turn and bluff river, but way too often this is just the nuts played awfully IMO - so honestly pure folding river can't be bad.
I kind of thought the same thing. Flop raise can be fish that actually has it or a good player making a move against 1/7th pot cbet. I would have called bc villains line doesn’t make sense as you pointed out.
I assure you this isn’t a rec, far more likely it’s a good reg that’s exploiting pool tendencies to block then fold on these flops His turn xb absolutely does not cap him Calling insanely wide OTR here bc of reg dynamics but again he has tons of flushes here
lol at the confidence
Yes I am confident
You don't think he is capping his range after turn x but still want to call "extremely wide" against this line lool
He absolutely isn’t capping his range, not at this Spr, that’s just not really debatable tbh, he’ll have plenty of flush in xback That doesn’t mean regs don’t overbluff here regardless. The two are semi related by pure combinatorics but they’re not at all one to one And I don’t want to go ad hominem but if you’re suggesting “mid size” bet fold at 1.5 SPR as a standard practice then we don’t really need to talk strategy, unless you specifically mean block fold which you don’t and again never folding this combo
Flushes would almost certainly be a high frequency bet on this turn. while his range may not be litterly capped most players would not sufficiently balance their x range here. This happens in so many situations at mid stakes and below. > if you’re suggesting bet fold at 1.5 SPR This happens even in a solver, I can find you numerous examples... In reality from the data I have seen it should be printing in this situation also. >That doesn’t mean regs don’t overbluff here regardless. The two are semi related by pure combinatorics but they’re not at all one to one True.
I will say I didn’t see 65s and a5s get there which prob disproportionately benefit his river value But I’m surprised we would disagree this is likely a reg. Fish just don’t find these sizings unless it’s broken clock right twice a day
It could definitely be a reg, I guess it's hard to say without more information.
Are they? I feel like fish tend to bluff the most on monoboards because they will think your small cbet is a sign of weakness.
In general fish a very transparent with their sizings. Large sizings contain much more value than the smaller sizings, so whenever I see massive raises from a fish I am suspicious regardless of the board. But ofc every whale is unique. This guy might not be a fish tho
It depends on the type of fish. Younger guys are more likely to be too aggressive even if they don't know what they are doing.
So what did the villain have then?
>!K6 of Spades!<
>!What the fuck!<
>! 200NL by the way !<
It's an interesting spot at least. Most of the hand histories people post here are polarized to either pure coolers or omega punts. It's nice to see a post that has a merged range.
>pure coolers There's always one guy in the comment who would fold the third nuts because "the way villain played he could have nothing else" lol.
I don't remember where I heard this, but I remember seeing/being told when someone takes a weird line that doesn't make a ton of sense it is usually weighted towards value. I'm not folding your hand here, and I agree with everyone saying that calling TX w a diamond + can't be too bad. I have a feeling your opponent is very unbalanced in one way or another in this line though.
I've heard it on tactical tuesday.
This probably does not apply to 200NL tbf
Yeah I'm not sure. Like if this hand were against Linus or some other high stakes end boss I wouldn't come here and say "well he took a weird line so I think he's weighted toward value 🤓" I'm not sure exactly what stake the cutoff is though, where the regs are able to take creative lines and still be balanced.
Bet more on the flop
😂😂😂😂
This is $2nl? I would say any top pair+ is fine here, ideally if you have a diamond.
200NL
Hm okay, that changes things. At the same time, villains line is extremely odd, and you played it very passively, so can come across as quite weak. But the raise flop, check brick turn, 1.5x overbet relative brick river is so odd. Most value would continue on turn. It seems like Adx, that bluffs at the end. Only thing that gets there is A5s and 56s that did not flop flushes, which is 6 combos. I would say defend top of range, so overpairs, J &Tx? Weakest hand being like AdT?
Do you want Ad to call tho? Seems like holding it blocks a lot of logical bluffs.
The most logical flush that checks back turn for some reason is the nut flush. You actually want to have Ad here.
Tbh I always get a little lost in those spots. Ad is good on the flop bc it gives us more equity. Typically when facing river decisions, we want cards with a diamond bc it blocks their flush combos. But yes I agree, Ad takes away their most logical bluff combos, although they shouldn't have that many offsuit Ax they call a 3b with here. Maybe Adtx,.Adjx, AdQx? AdK should 4b preflop near 100%. Even AdQ should 4b pre at some rate in this config.
Yeah, I mean I would personally 4b AJo and AQo, and sometimes 4b but mostly fold ATo, but it would not shock me if someone were to show up in this line with some AdQx or AdJx... It's a really weird spot though because he really shouldn't have many offsuit non-pair hands at all. So his bluffs would have to be some random stuff, unless he is turning some of those pairs into a bluff. But why would some random airball check the turn? Maybe he could have something like KQs that turns just enough equity that it doesn't want to get jammed on? The more I think about it though I think you might be right. Because he can't really have too much offsuit Ax to bluff with I think it is better to just block value.
Nice analysis, >!I would play the same. Villain turned over K6 of spades!<
So what did he have / how did it play out?
>! I call, villain has K6 of Spades!<
AxAd
Depends on how drunk I am.
I'm just not sure at all what the xb is on the turn from villain given the raise on the flop. There are 50BB in the pot and you each have like 75ish behind? What are we doing here folks. To me it would be incredibly tough to not assume that the xb caps his range and limits the amount of flushes he can have. I would probably not bet OOP on the river myself; I don't think his line screams Ax with the Ace of Spades or missed combo draw enough to actually put it in. On a good day, I probably tank for a really long time and just lay it down. If a fish is putting his entire stack at risk to get me off a hand, let me just live to fight another day and we'll see what happens when he does it again.
Entirely villain-dependent spot, especially at 2NL. I'm waiting towards calling top set with this action and runout, but if the player is anywhere near nitty, I'm folding everything except T-high flushes+. If a player is has any capacity to bluff, especially without the right blockers, I'd call KTo+, QTo with the queen of diamonds, probably. If they bluff with the right blockers, the only real adjustment I'd make is folding AT with the Ace of diamonds.
AT
I’m a donk and I’d lead that turn.
2nl, call anything.