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>Daniella Mestyanek Young, explained: “The first rule of cults is: you’re never in a cult. The second rule of cults is: the cult will forgive any sin, except the sin of leaving. The third rule of cults is: even if he did it, that doesn’t mean he’s guilty.”)
>Instead of probing why MAGA followers, despite all evidence to the contrary, deny that Trump was an insurrectionist and a proven liar, pollsters insist on asking Trump followers which candidate they think might better handle, for example, health care. The answer for Republicans (Trump! Trump!) has nothing to do with the question (Trump never had a health-care plan, you recall), and the question has nothing to do with the campaign.
>The race between an ordinary democratic candidate and an unhinged fascist is not a normal American election. At stake is whether a democracy can protect itself from a malicious candidate with narcissistic tendencies or a rational electorate can beat back a dangerous, lawless cult of personality. Unfortunately, too many media outlets have not caught on or, worse, simply feign ignorance
An American equivalent to Nazi Germany is on our horizon if we all don’t actively steer away from it.
It doesn’t help that a 1/3 of the population has their Nazi-MAGA hands on the wheel…
It’s not just the 1/3 that finds authoritarianism appealing and will use the tools of Democracy to undermine democracy. It also takes 1/3 to not participate and sit on their hands. And the final prodemocracy 1/3 fighting among themselves over issues that, while valid or important, aren’t as essential as protecting the form of government that makes the debate of those issues possible.
Hitler’s Nazi party never got more than 44% of the vote.
What’s scary is that even the presence of a candidate that threatens democracy as our form of government prevents us from having normal and important policy debates and concerns, even if he hasn’t won yet
It’s scary and, for me, it’s sad. As an older father with a kid just starting college, the fact that our time and energy is wasted on this as opposed to things that will impact my child long after I’m gone is beyond frustrating and discouraging. It will not matter in 1-5 years about the latest trumped up outrage of the month. What matters is tackling climate change and preparing for the consequences. Getting a head of steam going to tackle the insane wealth gap that will only further lead to disruptions and chaos the longer we kick that can down the road. Shoring up the resources and vigilance for novel zoonotic illnesses as we continue to increase the frequency of these occurring. Having the hard conversations about how we manage to have a free exchange of ideas and debate in the internet age but with better mitigatation of the disinformation and misinformation that is rotting our collective brains and souls.
Too much is riding on whether we get our shit together and drive this counterproductive crap into the background quickly and finally so we can get back to what should be the primary goal of every adult in a liberal democracy: how do I ensure my grandkids world is a healthier, better and safer one than this one.
yep, even if its not what trump actually wants (it is) giving him absolute power over everything can only end badly, as it has done in every instance in history...
but whatever, all hail trump! putin! xi! the "holy" trinity!!! :)
I have friends who say they're going to bail and leave the US if that happens.
My question is, if America becomes Nazi Germany, where on earth will you go that you think you'll be safe? There won't be a safe place to hide anywhere on this planet.
I did that seven years ago next week.
I’m also a multinat who does not have immigration challenges. I’ve got 30 countries I can live and work in with no legal issues.
Immigration is hard, though. My fiancée and I are chunking through the immigration paperwork for them to move in with me. Not fun.
US national extremism could accelerate de-dollarization. That would encourage foreign nations to sever collaboration with the US. Economic instability could topple Republican grip on US institutions in a managed democracy. This could lead to pockets of militia violence or warfare in the least developed areas of the US.
People, especially minorities, may be relatively safer in more developed areas, whether thats progressive US states or external social democracies that are still able to engage with English speakers.
A Russian, opposed to managed Democracy in Russia in 2014, may not be safe anywhere on the planet from that regime. But a Russian in 2024 finds it hard to *even* leave the nation, at all. American minorities may find it prudent to leave before they are trapped 10 years into managed democracy.
There's a not insignificant chance that, when WWIII arrives, a far-right US regime would lead a fascist axis against the western democracies of the world.
>That's just not inspiring. Not a bit of it. It's depressing and completely pathetic.
look, would you rather have an "inspiring" lie? or a depressing truth? i know which one i would pick... especially if that lie is geared to lead you off a well trodden cliff. 90% of the stuff trump is saying isnt even inspiring, its just more fear-mongering and gaslighting. i fell for it too, theres no shame in admitting you're wrong about something, no matter how much they might hate you for it and no matter how appealing their reality might seem
I agree with that 100%. I get called out for saying it a lot, but Trump still being a thing always comes back to the blatant malpractice of the media at large. I mean how long did it take them to simply admit the manchild was not *exaggerating* and say he was lying?
>I mean how long did it take them to simply admit the manchild was not *exaggerating* and say he was lying?
To some extent, it was covering their ass from lawsuits. Once he started denying objective reality though, should have been fine to call a spade a spade.
Oh no, what if he sues us?! You threaten to allow him to take you to court. He knows he's lying, and he isn't gonna want to go through discovery.
> Unfortunately, too many media outlets have not caught on or, worse, simply feign ignorance
I think they simply do not care. Money. Clicks. Ads. Fancy vacations for shareholders.
The saddest thing is that the ordinary democratic candidate is engaged in all-out genocide, so this nightmare of late capitalism becomes the lesser evil.
Don't have kids.
America isn’t at war? Genocide? Where?? Republicans are the ones committing genocide of the Ukrainian people where they support Putin’s genocide against Ukraine.
This is a right wing media propaganda bot designed to spread lies about Joe Biden in order to get Trump elected. Do not fall for this false rhetoric. Write your local congressman in demanding change NOW to get the 15,000 Russia bots controlling America’s social media feeds out of our country.
“And now, we bring you breaking news… Trump farting into our microphone. Live from Iowa….”
And the television ratings are thru the roof. No one can resist that.
TV Journalists these days have not an ounce of journalistic jurisprudence. They just cover what gets clicks on social media. They should not be classified as journalists but charlatans and soapbox screamers (looking at MSNbC, CNN, CBS.) stop covering every word uttered out of the Trumps mouths. You know it’s of no value. You know that’s not what drives democratic voters to the booth. Make better news segments.
the psychology books that stem from this era in American history are going to be so interesting. And embarrassing. In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol
I highly doubt many academic books will. Academia's consensus is pretty much in lol, we're just waiting for people to be far enough from the situation to think about it impersonally
I don’t know about you, but I will have no issue at all telling my children the reason they never saw grandpa was because he was a fascist via his support for Trump/GOP.
I had my only child 6 months after Obama was elected in 2007. I really thought I was bringing him into a enlightening world. I was 38. I should have known better.
That only works in a moral universe where everything is equivalent.
What is evil isn't the conflict. What is evil is what they do and have in store for everyone not like them. Opposing this is good, because if we don't the light dies for our collective freedom and human rights.
Except look at what one side wants for people, then look at what the other side wants. I agree we’re in the us vs. them stage, but you get to pick your side. Not making a choice is a choice (but for the wrong side in my opinion).
> In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol
I will, no fucking question. The thing that will happen is the cultists who have been sucking this cult off all the way to the hilt are going to deny they were wrapped up in this dipshittery, and will spend the rest of their lives trying to convince us they weren't. I'm never letting a single one of these fucking traitors forget. Parents, siblings, none of them. They're fucking traitors.
>In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol
In another 35 years there will still be people who aren't speaking to their family because they were Trump supporters.
Yeah. Some of this is hard to come back from. There are political opinions that go into the realm of things I refuse to tolerate. Supporting Trump is one, because I can't find a single redeemable quality to him as a person, his qualifications as president, or his ambitions (none of which seem to take the American people into account beyond courting votes). Even if you're a hardcore conservative or Republican, you should not want Trump as president.
We spent so long dehumanizing the Germans as monsters for electing Hitler when it should have been used as a teaching moment that this shit can happen in any country where demagogues and media platforms start spewing fear and lies about minorities and immigrants.
We did learn it in schools at one time about the holocaust. I’m not sure when we stopped teaching about that in American’s schools but going forward we need to make it a required high school class, not just an elective. Bring back the television series and documentaries about the most horrific crimes ever committed against humanity. The holocaust and the crimes of Hitler should never ever be forgotten to ensure man will never go down that road ever again.
If we wind up in a Theocracy, he'll be considered a hero for introducing a marriage of church and state.
He's taken the religious grifters and paired them with the political ones. Left or right, nobody is talking about their material quality of life, only the culture wedge issues that come from the grifters.
The world is still bigger than America. 85 million idiot Americans would hail him, maybe. I don't think what/whoever comes after or humanity in general will regard him with anything but contempt or embarrassment lol
While a Trump led dictatorship would be somewhat unique in the biggest idiot waving around the biggest stick, the rest of the world on the whole isn't doing so hot right now either.
There is a major descent into authoritarianism happening, and it's scary af.
Trump never had 85 million voters? What the Duce dude!? Let’s get this right ok? Trump had 74 million who voted for him, Biden had 82 million who voted for him and since Trumps sedition attempts 30 percent of the Republican voter base he once had bailed on the party after J6 so Trump has far fewer voter base support now. Republicans own 80 percent of all media in the U.S. so U.S. media is trying to force feed Trump to Americans on a daily loop to try and prop the despot up.
The majority of Americans are smart and know that Russian social media feeds like those here on Reddit have taken over our national media and the majority of Americans are not falling for the Republican lipstick on a pig garbage candidate (Trump) Everyone knows he sucks!
The left is still trying to improve healthcare, make education affordable, make broadband ubiquitous, assure reproductive healthcare, etc. Sure, they also fight for those “wedge” issues. You have to decide if those are enough of a dealbreaker to vote for lunacy.
I'm saying the right wing media sets the narrative--due to Trump--that we don't talk about those things. The rich must love him for this accomplishment.
Trump has a fourth grade education and is in early stages of Alzheimer’s that took Fred seniors (trumps dad) and trumps uncle’s, life. Trump only has a resume of being a mafia crime boss and criminal money laundering and racketeering and sedition and treason.
Americans refuse to hire someone like Trump for the highest U.S. office job because he’s the dummest president known in history and never should have been hired the first time. The only reason he won the first time is because people disliked Hillary Clinton.
Religion all over the world and in America has decline significantly especially where religion has decided to hitch its wagon to Trump and the nut job republicans. After all of this Bible thump, Trump garb, I highly doubt religion will ever recover due to the divisiveness it has proven to cause.
I was trying to riff on this news:
https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-076902
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/dsm-fire-financial-conflicts/story?id=15909673
SOP for the GOP for the last 25 years has been that one decade's "Great Conservative Hero" is the next decade's "Commie-marixst infiltrator planted by the left to make the right look bad"
The media’s worst lapse is not calling him out as:
A rapist found culpable by a jury.
A thief of charity funds
A fraudster of taxes
A multiple time proven philanderer
A list
An oath breaker
In New York he knew Les Wexner, The guy running Victoria's secret. He also was closer with Epstein and ran teen pageants. All of these men had the same lawyer, Alan dershowitz.
Also also, Epstein spent tons of time at Mar-A-Lago and lived not that far away at one point. Epstein was caught attempting to get a young teenage girl to prostitute herself and was given a magical mystical sweetheart deal by the Florida Attorney General (?) Alex Acosta where the deal basically said even if evidence came out of Epstein's colleagues committing similar crimes they could not be charged. Something crazy like that.
They had a sex trafficking ring.
Cult 45 is a mind boggling movement. This era of Trumpism will go down in history as one of the darkest and most dangerous time periods in the history of America. The fact that it has engulfed so many people in our country is as scary as the movement itself. How did this happen to our country?
Fear-mongering, propaganda, and gerrymandering also time. The GOP has been working to this end- staying in power at all costs since Reagan. And it really took off with Newt Gingrich as well as others.
I work with multiple young girls who don't even know the three branches of government, who voted Trump and plan to vote Trump again because their boyfriends told them to.
Trump is America. A cartoon evil depicting a cartoonish evil culture. A lot of people love America even in its evil because it's a team to be on and frankly, it's a winning team, in that most of the suffering we cause is elsewhere.
People are smart and recognize this, even as the man himself is a laughingstock. They don't vote for him, they vote through him to an awful and very realistic America. They aren't fools, they just don't aspire to goodness. (Hence the cult of evil (evangelical Christianity) that's become America's state religion).
Trump is just a mascot for American fascism (look at how many got vaccinated bcuz of him: he has no actual sway, he's just a con artist riding the wave. If you think he caused it, you've been conned).
The real driver is climate collapse, which again, people are smart and know about, even if they claim or think otherwise, and a fear of that death that causes us to cling to the first grifter bold and rich enough to hitch his wagon to that star.
And Home Alone 2 actor.
Never forget, Trump is so narcissistic, filming a cameo for him was a mandatory contract clause for shooting a film on any property he owned (and he owned The Plaza at the time). Home Alone 2 is just one of the very few to not leave the scene on the cutting room floor.
Cults chant and cheer, cults believe their authority figure without question, cult leaders attack the media, cult leaders convince you everyone else is lying.
If you don't think Trumpism is a cult, look at the evidence again.
All cult leaders are dictators, and all dictators are cult leaders.
Every king needs a church.
Every Big Brother needs a Ministry of Truth.
Religion is not spirituality or philosophy - it merely appropriates these things to achieve its goal. Religion is the rationalization of dictatorship.
trump is an egotistical pathological __liar__ and a pervert. The fact that people believe him leads me to lose all hope for humanity. A person can be smart, folks who believe him and watch the apprentice are plain stupid.
A-lot of people born in the 60’s-80’s saw Trump as a playboy, baller, insert term… he’s always thrived on controversy, and is just as vile now as then. If he were a touch less charismatic he would just be another huckster. Its the charisma that makes people overlook the vileness.
On the first mention of his name in any article they should use "...Trump, the leader of the ultra right-wing authoritarian neo-Nazi christian evangelical MAGA cult..."
That would go a long way towards bringing some balance back...
I am tired of the media ignoring the elephant in the room so as to not lose viewers or revenue.
At some point the greed had to stop and call Trump for what he is. A future Trump presidency will not be good for most of those news outlets. They should consider that instead of playing with fire again.
Cult leader, wannabe-dictator, overhyped media buffoon. If the guy didn’t already have money, there’s no way in hell he’d have even a single friend. I’ve never heard one interesting, intelligent or kind word come out of his mouth. EVER
Is that really worse than framing Democrats, who actually want to govern the country as the democratic republic the founders intended it to be and improve the lives of Americans, as on the same plain as Republicans, who literally want to burn the country down and rebuild it as a white christian nationalist authoritarian oligarchy in an effort to both sides this shit? Because that is killing us.
The media doesn’t need to tell us that he is a cult leader. The response from him and his little groupies is more than enough evidence of that. These weirdos, think he is god. Which is ironic since it goes against their own religion.
We all need to show up and vote. Republicans always have to find ways to limit Democrat voting .... they know they are massively outnumbered. Except Republicans love to vote. They show up. We need to show up again. In even more numbers. Let's make voting a priority. If your not voting, you shouldn't speak on any government issues.
The media’s worst lapse is continuing to shove Trump news in our face.
Media, please save America by ignoring him into obscurity. I don’t want to see his name in a headline unless it’s saying he’s dead or in jail.
The general public knew that before the media decided to share their opinion. Unfortunately, there are a lot of slow people in this country that got sucked in.
The people who think that the people who need to see the truth about who this man is don’t realize two things: 1. the truth about him is WHY he has followers and 2. The people who follow him don’t watch or read a thing that would dare speak the truth because they watch purely for the lie. It’s an impossible game.
Why do we need to call him a “cult leader” when we can say he is a populist with illiberal fascist tendencies? Seems there already is something he clearly is
The Trump family has no record of military service for 5 generations . 2 World Wars and over 150 years.
WWI Germany deported Trumps grandfather for not fulfilling the minimum requirements for state military service for all adult males. So we got stuck with the Trump family.
The large parts of the media call large parts of the cult the target demographic for their advertising.
If you lose the eyeballs your advertisers want, you don't stay in business.
Trump is really only good at one thing: exploiting weaknesses. Whether it's weaknesses in people, the law, politics, or the press, he specializes in getting away with the worst, most harmful behavior.
The press is bringing a chessboard to a gunfight.
anyone who can't see this should be put in a mental health facility for treatment, re-education, etc. Its self-obvious, no argument required. They are the fascists.
The American public's worst lapse is making an enemy out of 'the media', an undefined bogeyman we can use to ignore facts and choose our own adventure.
Journalism (what I would consider an element of the so-called 'media') is a critical part of the only system with any chance of stopping Trump: American democracy.
For many of them it's a political movement, and while Trump is the figurehead, the beliefs are what's most important. It's definitely a personality cult for the ones who believe Trump is what's most important, though, and there are a lot of those people.
An interesting point to consider: In a cult, the people at the top who know it's all bullshit are still alive; in a religion, those people are dead.
Just wait until Trump dies—that's when it might get really weird.
The distinction between a cult and a religion is that religion is seen as having mainstream legitimacy, whereas a cult is still seen as fringe. The funniest example of this was probably when Romney won the GOP nomination and Billy Graham’s website updated the next day to remove Mormonism from its list of cults.
Their purpose is the same tho: the rationalization of dictatorship.
That’s not what makes a cult a cult. Isolation from non-cult members and shunning if one leaves are two big factors in what makes a cult really a cult and not just a strict or small religion.
Cults are determined by their devotion not their size. The only differences between a cult and a religion are the perception of the public and usually the founder of a cult is long dead before it becomes a recognized religion.
Politics has become a religion. And both sides look at the other through the lens of “good or evil”. Both justify their actions as what is necessary for the greater good. While both sides don’t have equal or opposite situations to compare, they have examples that serve the purpose. It has become less enjoyable to engage in conversation because people have picked there team they are rooting against. And spare me the “bla bla im on the anti nazi team, or bla bla woke liberal policy “.
Religion has been used from its existence to group people together so to predict group mindset. Then plans could be made to benefit from that. That is all that is happening now with our politics.
He also leads an anti-cult a lot of y’all are sucked into; He is objectively awful and self serving, but he consumes 99% of this subs content and you say *they’re* obsessed…
If you continue to demonize Trump and his followers you will end up empowering his base and he will get closer and closer to the white house. How has the media not realized their handling of the situation has created this type of environment?
These citizens have legitimate concerns about the state of the country/world you cannot dismiss them, you have to engage with them and create solutions. Endless migrants and ballooning national debt is as equal a concern as police brutality and education. Lets address both. One party cant ignore half the country while they are in power, this is a problem that both sides share.
So, what do you do when one side refuse to compro.ise or engage, in good faith, on any of them? Enough of both sides nonsense. Both sides have the same problems to address, but only one side will actually put ideas forward, the other are only concerned with what will get them power. One side uses cruelty as policy and refuses to change. One side consistently backs out of agreements that do not directly benefit them politically and actively working against things that may help the others identify politically. Please tell me how voting for that side does any good?
Trump is a traitor, a seditionist, and a criminal, and if he gets power again he will be a fascist dictator. When you say we shouldn't demonize them, I want to laugh because calling out his crimes and fascism is simply pointing out the truth that the media is downplaying or ignoring. The word demonizing suggests people are exaggerating the threat Trump and MAGA pose to the US, but Trump has said extreme thing like "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country" and he'll be "dictator for a day" and use the military to cleanse our country using the insurrection clause. It's impossible to exaggerate how great of a threat he poses to the the US and our democracy. Calling for moderation in the language used to describe Trump and his followers only strengthens him by normalizing his extreme behavior. His followers will double down when he's criticized, that's true - but anyone still following him at this point knows what he intends to do and supports it. There's no benefit to appeasing those people because anything we give them will only be used as a weapon against us. (by us I mean anyone who opposes Trump)
Gimme a fucking break. The Right accuses people on the Left of eating babies. There is no equivalence between the two sides.
If Trump doesn't want to be accused of being a fascist dictator, he probably shouldn't say stuff like "I'll be a dictator on day one" while the Republican Party embraces Project 2025 as a way to gut the federal government and install a bunch of right-wing toadies.
>If you truly hate him, be better. Win without calling him hitler. Win by moving the country to a better place with honest and reasonable solutions.
We're supposed to "be better?" The audacity to say this in a discussion about Donald Trump and the MAGA movement is mind-blowing. It's a fascist cult, end of story. Most of us are done caring if we hurt the feelings of fragile right-wingers.
I work with these people every day. They aren't going to do anything except watch corporate America continue to wreck their small towns, blame it on poor people, and then complain when their kids move away to the cities.
It's not about his followers, they are 1/3rd or less of the country. It's about letting the moderates/on the fence people know the truth about Trump in the media.
The followers are never voting against dear leader. They don't care about good policy, they just want Trump. Trump only cares about Trump. You can't cater to these people, that's been part of the problem.
Oh ya I forgot those 4 years of America being run by a fascist dictator. Always slips my mind, its always weird to me though when they have an election because usually evil dictators don't. Then when they lose its even crazier that they just leave.
Remember that time when his supporters got really angry and stormed the capital and he told them to respect the police and laws and that they should go home? Dictators always allow a successful transfer of power to their opposition.
Then after its 100% proven they are a traitorous evil dictator they always stay in the same country and abide by the court system.
Objective truths are crazy!
You folks are completely lost at this point, and that's why we no longer give a shit if our criticisms come across as "demonization." Decades from now, psychologists and psychiatrists will study this time period specifically because of how right-wingers en masse have chosen to depart from shared reality.
It's akin to mass psychosis. And of course you yourself have no idea that you're participating in it—people who've lost touch with reality never do.
Shouting that you are done caring about people is not liberal. Calling your peers victims of mass psychosis is not liberal.
A left leaning person who cares about science and rights cant honestly be arguing that millions of people are delusional.
I am not even a Trump supporter. I posted that people have to band together to support real concerns that Americans are having and you created this fictional Nazi in you head. That's wild. That's really not healthy.
The left and right have the same material problems, yes. The left (not necessarily the Democratic Party) points squarely at capitalism as the cause. The right points squarely at marginalized people (immigrants, trans people, Jews, Muslims, etc).
Germany had plenty of economic problems leading up to Hitler assuming power. None of them had to do with Jews, or homosexuals, or communists, etc. So I don't particularly care about people who can correctly identify a problem and then point 180 degrees in the wrong direction at people who have absolutely no power in our society as the root of the problem.
Call me crazy, but my spidey-senses get a little tingly when people on the right start whining about the "blood of our nation" being "poisoned." It sounds fashy because... it's fascism.
That first bit is not just wrong but is weird. Americans targeted Muslims because of a terrorist attack in the heart of the nation. As wrong as that is it was in the eyes of many justified at the time.
Conservatives in the US also support Israel and Jews to a way higher degree than liberals who in many cases across schools and public office call the state of Israel an apartheid nation committing genocide.
You frame this in a very telling way, you claim the left just hates Capitalism and from what I gather that's because its good to be in that position. You then pick a few items on the opposing side that are morally wrong. To create a scale and to then weight the other side without any inflection on true liberal issues.
>Call me crazy, but my spidey-senses get a little tingly when people on the right start whining about the "blood of our nation" being "poisoned." It sounds fashy because... it's fascism.
Context is important. Its estimated that 11 million illegals are in the USA and those are all believed to be dramatically lower than the real numbers. Cities and counties are experiencing housing, safety and financial concerns without the added pressure of Illegals. poison is a bad term no argument here. That said a nation with social services that rely upon tax paying and law abiding citizens will fail if the people in that nation do not contribute. To advertise the nation as a sanctuary for the worlds poor is to bring about certain defeat in a competitive international community.
I dont hate you. I listen to you. I don't however agree that calling people hitler is a winning formula to any repeat ANY of the nations issues.
> Context is important.
There is no context in which "the blood of our nation is being poisoned" is an acceptable phrase to utter when discussing the topic of immigration. I don't know why it should require any kind of effort to convince you of that, but apparently it does, and that's not a good look for you.
It doesn't matter how many undocumented immigrants are in the United States. There could be 100 million, but politically speaking, that phrase should disqualify a person from attaining any kind of political office. In Trump's case, it helps solidify his lead as the Republican nominee.
Again, not a good look. What part of "Channeling the rhetoric of a genocidal dictator is bad" is confusing???
A few years ago when my kid was playing Fortnite, I asked him who he was talking to on his headset. It was some kid in New York who was a Syrian refugee. Suffice it to say, the younger generations are likely going to destroy the Republican Party if it insists on demonizing (to use your word) the most marginalized people in our society and on our planet. But since the party offers nothing to improve the material conditions of its voters, that's the only policy we should expect to hear.
EDIT: Maybe I'm missing some "context," but it sounds like Republicans want to just start gunning down people at the border. Can you explain this in a way that doesn't sound like making excuses for fascism? Is "Have they started shooting yet?" the sole criterion for determining whether or not they're fascists?
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2024/01/11/gov-greg-abbott-says-migrants-not-being-shot-because-biden-would-charge-us-with-murder/
So in terms of recent polling showed that 41% of Americans want levels decreased, that's legal immigration.
73% say that the government is doing a very bad job at handling the border crisis.
Legitimate real concerns supported by a very large group of people. This issue is being ignored. Even under a Trump administration people wanted levels lower and thought it sill wasn't enough.
So you have to reconcile with the fact that many Americans are done with the status quo. Candidates of all parties tap into what the voting base wants.
Drug cartels and human smuggles are committing absolutely atrocious acts of violence and abuse to both Americans and migrants. 11+ million illegal immigrants are taking jobs, services and housing that could go to tax paying, law abiding Americans.
A conservative president offered amnesty and even still decades later the issue is only growing. Liberal institutions rely upon tax paying individuals who support their existence. Continued neglect of the border will result in their inevitable collapse.
I hear you, but...
**"They took our jobs!" is still not a valid excuse for "The blood of our nation is being poisoned!"**
It doesn't matter how many times they say they want better border security if the Republican Party couples that with racist dog whistles. It exposes the sentiment that lies just below the surface. Is that "appealing to the base," as you say? If so, that says a lot about the Republican Party, doesn't it? That they have to smoosh together legitimate concerns about immigration with openly white nationalist rhetoric?
I'm old enough to remember the border leaking like a sieve during the 80s and 90s. What we're dealing with now is bad, but it's nothing at all in the grand scheme of things, and it's hardly the reason so many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. It is, however, a handy distraction from the fact that Republicans do absolutely nothing to improve the lives of Americans any time they hold any kind of power (witness the current House of Representatives as the most recent iteration of that truth).
>Then after its 100% proven they are a traitorous evil dictator they always stay in the same country and abide by the court system.
Not always but yeah. See: Hitler.
> These citizens have legitimate concerns about the state of the country/world you cannot dismiss them, you have to engage with them and create solutions.
I personally would rather not negotiate with terrorists, including the lynch mob with the Trump stamp of approval, who ran amok inside the Capitol with weapons, Confederate flags, and Nazi imagery.
> Endless migrants and ballooning national debt is as equal a concern as police brutality and education. Let’s address both.
You’re asking us in this thread to address four issues, not two.
> One party cant ignore half the country while they are in power, this is a problem that both sides share.
Just watch me, Donald Trump apologist. It’s easy to ignore and demonize the fraction of the American population that does not believe that Joe Biden was the legitimate winner of the 2020 election. I have no beef with conservatism as a political concept, as disagreeable as it can be.
However, let me put it to you this way: On January 6, 2001, there was an orderly transition of power. Al Gore, as Vice President of the United States, oversaw the official certification of his own defeat in the 2000 presidential election, without the votes in Florida that the Supreme Court prevented from being counted. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney received the keys to the White House, and the rest is history. No crying over a stolen election. No chaos. No mob. Al Gore took the L with true sportsmanship.
Can you say that about the electoral certification that occurred on January 6, 2021?
The next certification would occur on January 6, 2025.
If Donald Trump (or whoever the Republican candidate would be) wins in November, there would likely be an orderly transition of power, where Biden and Harris would begrudgingly hold their nose and accept their defeat with grace and humility.
Otherwise, if Trump loses again, he and his supporters would likely attempt to fuck shit up once again, this time from the outside.
That is why I would prefer to demonize and ignore the Donald Trump cult and their “legitimate concerns.”
>I personally would rather not negotiate with terrorists, including the lynch mob with the Trump stamp of approval, who ran amok inside the Capitol with weapons, Confederate flags, and Nazi imagery.
Documents are out now. You can watch videos of police letting people in, standing by doing nothing. The FBI heads being asked if there was incitement on their part and they wont confirm that agents were on the ground among the trespassers. Believe what you want but only one death occurred and it was a Trump supporter. That's either not fitting the narrative or the worst attempt at terror in history.
>You’re asking us in this thread to address four issues, not two.
Both sides of the aisle...
>No crying over a stolen election. No chaos. No mob. Al Gore took the L with true sportsmanship.
Bush v. Gore was the opposite of what you stated. Gore fought that he won the election and it went to the supreme court. Its happened in the past before as well. Many candidates have argued the results of elections.
>Can you say that about the electoral certification that occurred on January 6, 2021?
Yes we can, it was a contentious result that both candidates argued at times that numbers had been skewed and needed review. The winner tends not to fight that hard because the onus is on the loser to prove they should have won.
>If Donald Trump (or whoever the Republican candidate would be) wins in November, there would likely be an orderly transition of power, where Biden and Harris would begrudgingly hold their nose and accept their defeat with grace and humility.
No chance. States are already fighting to ban Trump from their ballots. You honestly think that the person they call a traitor and dictator will be welcomed in?
All in all its crazy that if a MAGA supporter says we should stop allowing millions of illegals into the country the automatic response is to blast them for being in a cult and being anti-science. Its crazy. That's a real problem and is a legitimate concern that people have and needs to be addressed.
There is video of police opening doors and allowing people to walk by them.
Compare this reaction to that of many viral videos of cops going savage for a traffic stop.
You can say it's not real but video evidence has been released to the public which shows officers not doing the job they are paid to do.
no, some cherry picked footage was pushed out with a false narrative. people were told to leave. police were injured
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifact-did-capitol-police-let-mob-trump-su/
The Viking guy was allowed to walk through the building with two police escorts. Its on video. In your own source they admit to police taking selfies with the trespassers.
Again I want you to stop and think of the videos of a traffic stop or drug arrest in which the police will choke slam, taze, pepper spray or even shoot you if you don't cooperate.
Warnings days prior to Jan 6 were issued and now hearings and reviews are being done as to why the response was so bad. It was an utter failure to control a crowd.
people committing crimes isn't the fault of law enforcement, it's the fault of the criminals. over 1000 people were convicted of crimes
As the NY Times demonstrated, the events of Jan 6 were much more violent than the far right would have you believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0
All they have to do is pick a different person that isn’t a huge piece of shit. Trump has no policies different than any other Republican. They want the piece of shit and deserve to be demonized for worshipping him and turning the majority of their party into a bunch of ridiculous morons.
What confuses me this time around though is…what are these people getting out of this? I mean, at least with Manson (in the beginning) those young girls were getting the attention they weren’t getting at home & they felt like they were a part of something. And they had a direct connection to Manson himself. Most of Trump’s followers never even met Trump; nor would he be caught dead in these towns, trailers and basements they call home. The Manson girls were often barely 18 while Trumps followers are usually well into their 30’s and older. During 1/6 Trump was disgusted by how fat & old the people at the insurrection looked. He insults these followers and they continue to come back to get insulted even more.
With Jim Jones, he also had a message at first that a lot of people believed in & wanted to be a part of (inclusion, diversity, taking care of the less fortunate) and I can see why they wanted to sign up for that. But of course like with Manson these leaders take a very dangerous turn and that’s when things turn tragic and criminal.
Those are the only two really big cults in America that reached the same high profile status as Trump. I’m just concerned because those both ended very badly & with as amped up as these Trump followers are…I think a lot of us aren’t really sure where this is going next.
The medias worst lapse: refusing to stop reporting on a has been president instead of focusing attention on what new candidates have to offer the country
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>Daniella Mestyanek Young, explained: “The first rule of cults is: you’re never in a cult. The second rule of cults is: the cult will forgive any sin, except the sin of leaving. The third rule of cults is: even if he did it, that doesn’t mean he’s guilty.”) >Instead of probing why MAGA followers, despite all evidence to the contrary, deny that Trump was an insurrectionist and a proven liar, pollsters insist on asking Trump followers which candidate they think might better handle, for example, health care. The answer for Republicans (Trump! Trump!) has nothing to do with the question (Trump never had a health-care plan, you recall), and the question has nothing to do with the campaign. >The race between an ordinary democratic candidate and an unhinged fascist is not a normal American election. At stake is whether a democracy can protect itself from a malicious candidate with narcissistic tendencies or a rational electorate can beat back a dangerous, lawless cult of personality. Unfortunately, too many media outlets have not caught on or, worse, simply feign ignorance
huh... this all sounds strangely familiar
An American equivalent to Nazi Germany is on our horizon if we all don’t actively steer away from it. It doesn’t help that a 1/3 of the population has their Nazi-MAGA hands on the wheel…
It’s not just the 1/3 that finds authoritarianism appealing and will use the tools of Democracy to undermine democracy. It also takes 1/3 to not participate and sit on their hands. And the final prodemocracy 1/3 fighting among themselves over issues that, while valid or important, aren’t as essential as protecting the form of government that makes the debate of those issues possible. Hitler’s Nazi party never got more than 44% of the vote.
What’s scary is that even the presence of a candidate that threatens democracy as our form of government prevents us from having normal and important policy debates and concerns, even if he hasn’t won yet
It’s scary and, for me, it’s sad. As an older father with a kid just starting college, the fact that our time and energy is wasted on this as opposed to things that will impact my child long after I’m gone is beyond frustrating and discouraging. It will not matter in 1-5 years about the latest trumped up outrage of the month. What matters is tackling climate change and preparing for the consequences. Getting a head of steam going to tackle the insane wealth gap that will only further lead to disruptions and chaos the longer we kick that can down the road. Shoring up the resources and vigilance for novel zoonotic illnesses as we continue to increase the frequency of these occurring. Having the hard conversations about how we manage to have a free exchange of ideas and debate in the internet age but with better mitigatation of the disinformation and misinformation that is rotting our collective brains and souls. Too much is riding on whether we get our shit together and drive this counterproductive crap into the background quickly and finally so we can get back to what should be the primary goal of every adult in a liberal democracy: how do I ensure my grandkids world is a healthier, better and safer one than this one.
On the horizon? It's right around the corner.
Around the corner? We are sitting at the intersection, waiting for the light!
We blew that light a block ago friend
yep, even if its not what trump actually wants (it is) giving him absolute power over everything can only end badly, as it has done in every instance in history... but whatever, all hail trump! putin! xi! the "holy" trinity!!! :)
I have friends who say they're going to bail and leave the US if that happens. My question is, if America becomes Nazi Germany, where on earth will you go that you think you'll be safe? There won't be a safe place to hide anywhere on this planet.
Maybe not, but I’d take my chances in any English speaking country with healthcare over what America would be offering.
I did that seven years ago next week. I’m also a multinat who does not have immigration challenges. I’ve got 30 countries I can live and work in with no legal issues. Immigration is hard, though. My fiancée and I are chunking through the immigration paperwork for them to move in with me. Not fun.
US national extremism could accelerate de-dollarization. That would encourage foreign nations to sever collaboration with the US. Economic instability could topple Republican grip on US institutions in a managed democracy. This could lead to pockets of militia violence or warfare in the least developed areas of the US. People, especially minorities, may be relatively safer in more developed areas, whether thats progressive US states or external social democracies that are still able to engage with English speakers. A Russian, opposed to managed Democracy in Russia in 2014, may not be safe anywhere on the planet from that regime. But a Russian in 2024 finds it hard to *even* leave the nation, at all. American minorities may find it prudent to leave before they are trapped 10 years into managed democracy.
There's a not insignificant chance that, when WWIII arrives, a far-right US regime would lead a fascist axis against the western democracies of the world.
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>That's just not inspiring. Not a bit of it. It's depressing and completely pathetic. look, would you rather have an "inspiring" lie? or a depressing truth? i know which one i would pick... especially if that lie is geared to lead you off a well trodden cliff. 90% of the stuff trump is saying isnt even inspiring, its just more fear-mongering and gaslighting. i fell for it too, theres no shame in admitting you're wrong about something, no matter how much they might hate you for it and no matter how appealing their reality might seem
I agree with that 100%. I get called out for saying it a lot, but Trump still being a thing always comes back to the blatant malpractice of the media at large. I mean how long did it take them to simply admit the manchild was not *exaggerating* and say he was lying?
>I mean how long did it take them to simply admit the manchild was not *exaggerating* and say he was lying? To some extent, it was covering their ass from lawsuits. Once he started denying objective reality though, should have been fine to call a spade a spade. Oh no, what if he sues us?! You threaten to allow him to take you to court. He knows he's lying, and he isn't gonna want to go through discovery.
A lot have caught on, but as long as they’re getting clicks, they just don’t care.
> Unfortunately, too many media outlets have not caught on or, worse, simply feign ignorance I think they simply do not care. Money. Clicks. Ads. Fancy vacations for shareholders.
The saddest thing is that the ordinary democratic candidate is engaged in all-out genocide, so this nightmare of late capitalism becomes the lesser evil. Don't have kids.
America isn’t at war? Genocide? Where?? Republicans are the ones committing genocide of the Ukrainian people where they support Putin’s genocide against Ukraine. This is a right wing media propaganda bot designed to spread lies about Joe Biden in order to get Trump elected. Do not fall for this false rhetoric. Write your local congressman in demanding change NOW to get the 15,000 Russia bots controlling America’s social media feeds out of our country.
“And now, we bring you breaking news… Trump farting into our microphone. Live from Iowa….” And the television ratings are thru the roof. No one can resist that. TV Journalists these days have not an ounce of journalistic jurisprudence. They just cover what gets clicks on social media. They should not be classified as journalists but charlatans and soapbox screamers (looking at MSNbC, CNN, CBS.) stop covering every word uttered out of the Trumps mouths. You know it’s of no value. You know that’s not what drives democratic voters to the booth. Make better news segments.
the psychology books that stem from this era in American history are going to be so interesting. And embarrassing. In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol
Many will play it off as a phase. A joke really. They never ACTUALLY believed any of it... you know? Never forget
The people wearing MAGA hats today are the ones whose parents laughed and smiled when being photographed at the lynchings of black people.
Speculation aside, that is so stupid to say.
There were many Germans and Austrians that did exactly that after Hitler.
Oh that was just my fascist phase, that doesn’t count
I highly doubt many academic books will. Academia's consensus is pretty much in lol, we're just waiting for people to be far enough from the situation to think about it impersonally
I don’t know about you, but I will have no issue at all telling my children the reason they never saw grandpa was because he was a fascist via his support for Trump/GOP.
Same, I won’t forgive and I won’t forget their support of Trump.
Don't have kids or want them, so I don't even have to worry about it lol. I did end contact with that side of the family, though.
I had my only child 6 months after Obama was elected in 2007. I really thought I was bringing him into a enlightening world. I was 38. I should have known better.
I have debated that but the question is are we just as bad for being against them? It truly has become an us vs them mentality on both sides
> the question is are we just as bad for being against them? No
How would we be just as bad? Lol. If you truly toss that question around in your head, then it's clearly the only thing bouncing around in there.
That only works in a moral universe where everything is equivalent. What is evil isn't the conflict. What is evil is what they do and have in store for everyone not like them. Opposing this is good, because if we don't the light dies for our collective freedom and human rights.
Except look at what one side wants for people, then look at what the other side wants. I agree we’re in the us vs. them stage, but you get to pick your side. Not making a choice is a choice (but for the wrong side in my opinion).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
> In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol I will, no fucking question. The thing that will happen is the cultists who have been sucking this cult off all the way to the hilt are going to deny they were wrapped up in this dipshittery, and will spend the rest of their lives trying to convince us they weren't. I'm never letting a single one of these fucking traitors forget. Parents, siblings, none of them. They're fucking traitors.
I can hear it already. "I never said Trump was a good president, what I said was. I always agreed that ."
>In another 35 years no one will admit they had any Trump supporters in their family lol In another 35 years there will still be people who aren't speaking to their family because they were Trump supporters.
Yeah. Some of this is hard to come back from. There are political opinions that go into the realm of things I refuse to tolerate. Supporting Trump is one, because I can't find a single redeemable quality to him as a person, his qualifications as president, or his ambitions (none of which seem to take the American people into account beyond courting votes). Even if you're a hardcore conservative or Republican, you should not want Trump as president.
Try to find a (gw)bush supporter now…
Just like no one had slave owners in their family.
I think that, similar to Tricky Dick, that Trump will spur a whole new wave of Americans distrusting government even more than we already do.
Both sides for sure trust the media less.
We spent so long dehumanizing the Germans as monsters for electing Hitler when it should have been used as a teaching moment that this shit can happen in any country where demagogues and media platforms start spewing fear and lies about minorities and immigrants.
We did learn it in schools at one time about the holocaust. I’m not sure when we stopped teaching about that in American’s schools but going forward we need to make it a required high school class, not just an elective. Bring back the television series and documentaries about the most horrific crimes ever committed against humanity. The holocaust and the crimes of Hitler should never ever be forgotten to ensure man will never go down that road ever again.
If we wind up in a Theocracy, he'll be considered a hero for introducing a marriage of church and state. He's taken the religious grifters and paired them with the political ones. Left or right, nobody is talking about their material quality of life, only the culture wedge issues that come from the grifters.
The world is still bigger than America. 85 million idiot Americans would hail him, maybe. I don't think what/whoever comes after or humanity in general will regard him with anything but contempt or embarrassment lol
While a Trump led dictatorship would be somewhat unique in the biggest idiot waving around the biggest stick, the rest of the world on the whole isn't doing so hot right now either. There is a major descent into authoritarianism happening, and it's scary af.
Trump never had 85 million voters? What the Duce dude!? Let’s get this right ok? Trump had 74 million who voted for him, Biden had 82 million who voted for him and since Trumps sedition attempts 30 percent of the Republican voter base he once had bailed on the party after J6 so Trump has far fewer voter base support now. Republicans own 80 percent of all media in the U.S. so U.S. media is trying to force feed Trump to Americans on a daily loop to try and prop the despot up. The majority of Americans are smart and know that Russian social media feeds like those here on Reddit have taken over our national media and the majority of Americans are not falling for the Republican lipstick on a pig garbage candidate (Trump) Everyone knows he sucks!
The left is still trying to improve healthcare, make education affordable, make broadband ubiquitous, assure reproductive healthcare, etc. Sure, they also fight for those “wedge” issues. You have to decide if those are enough of a dealbreaker to vote for lunacy.
I'm saying the right wing media sets the narrative--due to Trump--that we don't talk about those things. The rich must love him for this accomplishment.
Trump has a fourth grade education and is in early stages of Alzheimer’s that took Fred seniors (trumps dad) and trumps uncle’s, life. Trump only has a resume of being a mafia crime boss and criminal money laundering and racketeering and sedition and treason. Americans refuse to hire someone like Trump for the highest U.S. office job because he’s the dummest president known in history and never should have been hired the first time. The only reason he won the first time is because people disliked Hillary Clinton.
Religion all over the world and in America has decline significantly especially where religion has decided to hitch its wagon to Trump and the nut job republicans. After all of this Bible thump, Trump garb, I highly doubt religion will ever recover due to the divisiveness it has proven to cause.
OR.... we will all be required to swear fealty to Trump
Nope!
Please. Some will be flying Trump flags cuz it’s my heritage!
Those books will be written by pharma.
The pharma that is in league with the deep state and illuminati or the pharma that eradicated polio?
Dumb antivaxxers are bringing polio back now.
I was trying to riff on this news: https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-076902 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/dsm-fire-financial-conflicts/story?id=15909673
They sneak in there still to rewrite history. There is a faction that will forever support a philosophy. Even when it is illogical.
SOP for the GOP for the last 25 years has been that one decade's "Great Conservative Hero" is the next decade's "Commie-marixst infiltrator planted by the left to make the right look bad"
In 35 years we will all be engaged in the water wars. /r/collapse is coming
Got the lotto numbers up there too?
The media’s worst lapse is not calling him out as: A rapist found culpable by a jury. A thief of charity funds A fraudster of taxes A multiple time proven philanderer A list An oath breaker
Keep going. You’re on a roll!
The media's worst lapse is refusing to touch any of the mountain of evidence that he is a pedophile.
In New York he knew Les Wexner, The guy running Victoria's secret. He also was closer with Epstein and ran teen pageants. All of these men had the same lawyer, Alan dershowitz. Also also, Epstein spent tons of time at Mar-A-Lago and lived not that far away at one point. Epstein was caught attempting to get a young teenage girl to prostitute herself and was given a magical mystical sweetheart deal by the Florida Attorney General (?) Alex Acosta where the deal basically said even if evidence came out of Epstein's colleagues committing similar crimes they could not be charged. Something crazy like that. They had a sex trafficking ring.
Well at least he’s a good husband and father to all of his families…
Cult 45 is a mind boggling movement. This era of Trumpism will go down in history as one of the darkest and most dangerous time periods in the history of America. The fact that it has engulfed so many people in our country is as scary as the movement itself. How did this happen to our country?
Obama got elected, and the right wingers were so enraged by a black man in the WH that their minds snapped.
The 2000 election was stolen long before that. Remember, torture was suddenly a-ok when in support of Amerika.
Fear-mongering, propaganda, and gerrymandering also time. The GOP has been working to this end- staying in power at all costs since Reagan. And it really took off with Newt Gingrich as well as others.
Don’t forget actual political violence!
Thank you spaced out on that one. 🤦🏼♂️
I work with multiple young girls who don't even know the three branches of government, who voted Trump and plan to vote Trump again because their boyfriends told them to.
Trump is America. A cartoon evil depicting a cartoonish evil culture. A lot of people love America even in its evil because it's a team to be on and frankly, it's a winning team, in that most of the suffering we cause is elsewhere. People are smart and recognize this, even as the man himself is a laughingstock. They don't vote for him, they vote through him to an awful and very realistic America. They aren't fools, they just don't aspire to goodness. (Hence the cult of evil (evangelical Christianity) that's become America's state religion). Trump is just a mascot for American fascism (look at how many got vaccinated bcuz of him: he has no actual sway, he's just a con artist riding the wave. If you think he caused it, you've been conned). The real driver is climate collapse, which again, people are smart and know about, even if they claim or think otherwise, and a fear of that death that causes us to cling to the first grifter bold and rich enough to hitch his wagon to that star.
Cult leader, terrorist leader, con-artist, and beauty pageant judge.
George Santos is immediately calling that BS, because he was all those things first.
😆😆😆 Fair
Cheated on all his wives without an ounce of remorse. I feel like that doesn’t get brought up enough.
And Home Alone 2 actor. Never forget, Trump is so narcissistic, filming a cameo for him was a mandatory contract clause for shooting a film on any property he owned (and he owned The Plaza at the time). Home Alone 2 is just one of the very few to not leave the scene on the cutting room floor.
Oh, WaPo. Don't you think think ignoring the facts that he's a rapist, a child molester and a scammer were larger lapses.
Here is the thing most of us forget.... Most media is owned by conservative propaganda kings.
Cults chant and cheer, cults believe their authority figure without question, cult leaders attack the media, cult leaders convince you everyone else is lying. If you don't think Trumpism is a cult, look at the evidence again.
All cult leaders are dictators, and all dictators are cult leaders. Every king needs a church. Every Big Brother needs a Ministry of Truth. Religion is not spirituality or philosophy - it merely appropriates these things to achieve its goal. Religion is the rationalization of dictatorship.
trump is an egotistical pathological __liar__ and a pervert. The fact that people believe him leads me to lose all hope for humanity. A person can be smart, folks who believe him and watch the apprentice are plain stupid.
A-lot of people born in the 60’s-80’s saw Trump as a playboy, baller, insert term… he’s always thrived on controversy, and is just as vile now as then. If he were a touch less charismatic he would just be another huckster. Its the charisma that makes people overlook the vileness.
On the first mention of his name in any article they should use "...Trump, the leader of the ultra right-wing authoritarian neo-Nazi christian evangelical MAGA cult..." That would go a long way towards bringing some balance back...
Can we shorten that to deplorables?
I am tired of the media ignoring the elephant in the room so as to not lose viewers or revenue. At some point the greed had to stop and call Trump for what he is. A future Trump presidency will not be good for most of those news outlets. They should consider that instead of playing with fire again.
The GOP is a Cult of Personality and Democrats are a coalition of people with similar, but not identical, ideals.
Cult leader, wannabe-dictator, overhyped media buffoon. If the guy didn’t already have money, there’s no way in hell he’d have even a single friend. I’ve never heard one interesting, intelligent or kind word come out of his mouth. EVER
Is that really worse than framing Democrats, who actually want to govern the country as the democratic republic the founders intended it to be and improve the lives of Americans, as on the same plain as Republicans, who literally want to burn the country down and rebuild it as a white christian nationalist authoritarian oligarchy in an effort to both sides this shit? Because that is killing us.
The media doesn’t need to tell us that he is a cult leader. The response from him and his little groupies is more than enough evidence of that. These weirdos, think he is god. Which is ironic since it goes against their own religion.
Instead of having his followers drink Kool Aid it was injecting or ingesting bleach.
We all need to show up and vote. Republicans always have to find ways to limit Democrat voting .... they know they are massively outnumbered. Except Republicans love to vote. They show up. We need to show up again. In even more numbers. Let's make voting a priority. If your not voting, you shouldn't speak on any government issues.
Well said. Thank you.
The media’s worst lapse is continuing to shove Trump news in our face. Media, please save America by ignoring him into obscurity. I don’t want to see his name in a headline unless it’s saying he’s dead or in jail.
The general public knew that before the media decided to share their opinion. Unfortunately, there are a lot of slow people in this country that got sucked in.
Tell me more
They afraid maga types will boycott them? Like they watch network news still? Afraid advertisers will avoid them? F them all
Traitor Trump is a psychopath.
Because they don’t want to get sued. And trump is the type to sue for something like that
The people who think that the people who need to see the truth about who this man is don’t realize two things: 1. the truth about him is WHY he has followers and 2. The people who follow him don’t watch or read a thing that would dare speak the truth because they watch purely for the lie. It’s an impossible game.
“And He will put them all under compulsion that they should worship the Beast and it’s image”
I literally see this every day in the media
Why do we need to call him a “cult leader” when we can say he is a populist with illiberal fascist tendencies? Seems there already is something he clearly is
Fascist*
Ohh don’t sell yourselves short media. You’re continuing to lapse in so many ways.
This is why news media can’t be a for profit organization.They don’t want to lose advertising money from said cult.
Says a media outlet. Be the change you want to see.
The Trump family has no record of military service for 5 generations . 2 World Wars and over 150 years. WWI Germany deported Trumps grandfather for not fulfilling the minimum requirements for state military service for all adult males. So we got stuck with the Trump family.
A large majority of conservatives are willing to sell out their own country for this tool. They should be shunned for life.
I don’t know when personal accountability became irrelevant for politicians. It isn’t a good sign for our democracy.
How about as a morally bankrupt fascist, traitor, conman, grifter, pedophile, etc? We should call this fucker what he really is.
The large parts of the media call large parts of the cult the target demographic for their advertising. If you lose the eyeballs your advertisers want, you don't stay in business.
The Media have Identified Trump as their Golden Goose. They are not going to do anything that reduces the profits he generates.
But here’s the media once again “slamming” the media for doing exactly what it says it’s not doing. It’s weird.
Trump is really only good at one thing: exploiting weaknesses. Whether it's weaknesses in people, the law, politics, or the press, he specializes in getting away with the worst, most harmful behavior. The press is bringing a chessboard to a gunfight.
What a dumb article. Non-magas already know it’s a cull and magas will refuse to accept that they are in a cult.
What’s the difference between Charles Manson and Donald Trump……….?
anyone who can't see this should be put in a mental health facility for treatment, re-education, etc. Its self-obvious, no argument required. They are the fascists.
The American public's worst lapse is making an enemy out of 'the media', an undefined bogeyman we can use to ignore facts and choose our own adventure. Journalism (what I would consider an element of the so-called 'media') is a critical part of the only system with any chance of stopping Trump: American democracy.
Don’t worry, tomorrow WaPo will also be treating them as a legitimate, run of the mill candidate.
THAT’S Exactly what he is “ CULT LEADER “
Cults need principles. I call BS
"Trump is king" is the only one.
Trump 2024
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Is he really a \*cult\* leader? Cults are supposed to be small and insular. MAGA is pretty widespread and big. The scale feels off to me
For many of them it's a political movement, and while Trump is the figurehead, the beliefs are what's most important. It's definitely a personality cult for the ones who believe Trump is what's most important, though, and there are a lot of those people. An interesting point to consider: In a cult, the people at the top who know it's all bullshit are still alive; in a religion, those people are dead. Just wait until Trump dies—that's when it might get really weird.
Cults can be huge and widespread, take anabaptist and the Münster rebellion as an example.
The distinction between a cult and a religion is that religion is seen as having mainstream legitimacy, whereas a cult is still seen as fringe. The funniest example of this was probably when Romney won the GOP nomination and Billy Graham’s website updated the next day to remove Mormonism from its list of cults. Their purpose is the same tho: the rationalization of dictatorship.
That’s not what makes a cult a cult. Isolation from non-cult members and shunning if one leaves are two big factors in what makes a cult really a cult and not just a strict or small religion.
Yeah, there’s plenty of smaller religions that aren’t cults.
That is why I don't think you can really call it a cult. It is too large and seems like it is more of a movement, like the Nazi movement.
Cults are determined by their devotion not their size. The only differences between a cult and a religion are the perception of the public and usually the founder of a cult is long dead before it becomes a recognized religion.
Politics has become a religion. And both sides look at the other through the lens of “good or evil”. Both justify their actions as what is necessary for the greater good. While both sides don’t have equal or opposite situations to compare, they have examples that serve the purpose. It has become less enjoyable to engage in conversation because people have picked there team they are rooting against. And spare me the “bla bla im on the anti nazi team, or bla bla woke liberal policy “. Religion has been used from its existence to group people together so to predict group mindset. Then plans could be made to benefit from that. That is all that is happening now with our politics.
What a stupid and useless comment.
Well, we have something in common then.
It’s a political movement. By that same logic you can denounce any political movement with a well liked leader as a cult
You haven’t seen the ”God created Trump” ad? It’s a cult.
Couldn’t find it. Only found videos of media outlets reporting on it
It’s on Truth Social if you really need to plumb the depths of human depravity.
He also leads an anti-cult a lot of y’all are sucked into; He is objectively awful and self serving, but he consumes 99% of this subs content and you say *they’re* obsessed…
If you continue to demonize Trump and his followers you will end up empowering his base and he will get closer and closer to the white house. How has the media not realized their handling of the situation has created this type of environment? These citizens have legitimate concerns about the state of the country/world you cannot dismiss them, you have to engage with them and create solutions. Endless migrants and ballooning national debt is as equal a concern as police brutality and education. Lets address both. One party cant ignore half the country while they are in power, this is a problem that both sides share.
So, what do you do when one side refuse to compro.ise or engage, in good faith, on any of them? Enough of both sides nonsense. Both sides have the same problems to address, but only one side will actually put ideas forward, the other are only concerned with what will get them power. One side uses cruelty as policy and refuses to change. One side consistently backs out of agreements that do not directly benefit them politically and actively working against things that may help the others identify politically. Please tell me how voting for that side does any good?
Trump is a traitor, a seditionist, and a criminal, and if he gets power again he will be a fascist dictator. When you say we shouldn't demonize them, I want to laugh because calling out his crimes and fascism is simply pointing out the truth that the media is downplaying or ignoring. The word demonizing suggests people are exaggerating the threat Trump and MAGA pose to the US, but Trump has said extreme thing like "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country" and he'll be "dictator for a day" and use the military to cleanse our country using the insurrection clause. It's impossible to exaggerate how great of a threat he poses to the the US and our democracy. Calling for moderation in the language used to describe Trump and his followers only strengthens him by normalizing his extreme behavior. His followers will double down when he's criticized, that's true - but anyone still following him at this point knows what he intends to do and supports it. There's no benefit to appeasing those people because anything we give them will only be used as a weapon against us. (by us I mean anyone who opposes Trump)
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Gimme a fucking break. The Right accuses people on the Left of eating babies. There is no equivalence between the two sides. If Trump doesn't want to be accused of being a fascist dictator, he probably shouldn't say stuff like "I'll be a dictator on day one" while the Republican Party embraces Project 2025 as a way to gut the federal government and install a bunch of right-wing toadies. >If you truly hate him, be better. Win without calling him hitler. Win by moving the country to a better place with honest and reasonable solutions. We're supposed to "be better?" The audacity to say this in a discussion about Donald Trump and the MAGA movement is mind-blowing. It's a fascist cult, end of story. Most of us are done caring if we hurt the feelings of fragile right-wingers.
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I work with these people every day. They aren't going to do anything except watch corporate America continue to wreck their small towns, blame it on poor people, and then complain when their kids move away to the cities.
It's not about his followers, they are 1/3rd or less of the country. It's about letting the moderates/on the fence people know the truth about Trump in the media. The followers are never voting against dear leader. They don't care about good policy, they just want Trump. Trump only cares about Trump. You can't cater to these people, that's been part of the problem.
Stating the obvious objective truth isn’t “demonizing” anything.
Oh ya I forgot those 4 years of America being run by a fascist dictator. Always slips my mind, its always weird to me though when they have an election because usually evil dictators don't. Then when they lose its even crazier that they just leave. Remember that time when his supporters got really angry and stormed the capital and he told them to respect the police and laws and that they should go home? Dictators always allow a successful transfer of power to their opposition. Then after its 100% proven they are a traitorous evil dictator they always stay in the same country and abide by the court system. Objective truths are crazy!
You folks are completely lost at this point, and that's why we no longer give a shit if our criticisms come across as "demonization." Decades from now, psychologists and psychiatrists will study this time period specifically because of how right-wingers en masse have chosen to depart from shared reality. It's akin to mass psychosis. And of course you yourself have no idea that you're participating in it—people who've lost touch with reality never do.
Shouting that you are done caring about people is not liberal. Calling your peers victims of mass psychosis is not liberal. A left leaning person who cares about science and rights cant honestly be arguing that millions of people are delusional. I am not even a Trump supporter. I posted that people have to band together to support real concerns that Americans are having and you created this fictional Nazi in you head. That's wild. That's really not healthy.
The left and right have the same material problems, yes. The left (not necessarily the Democratic Party) points squarely at capitalism as the cause. The right points squarely at marginalized people (immigrants, trans people, Jews, Muslims, etc). Germany had plenty of economic problems leading up to Hitler assuming power. None of them had to do with Jews, or homosexuals, or communists, etc. So I don't particularly care about people who can correctly identify a problem and then point 180 degrees in the wrong direction at people who have absolutely no power in our society as the root of the problem. Call me crazy, but my spidey-senses get a little tingly when people on the right start whining about the "blood of our nation" being "poisoned." It sounds fashy because... it's fascism.
That first bit is not just wrong but is weird. Americans targeted Muslims because of a terrorist attack in the heart of the nation. As wrong as that is it was in the eyes of many justified at the time. Conservatives in the US also support Israel and Jews to a way higher degree than liberals who in many cases across schools and public office call the state of Israel an apartheid nation committing genocide. You frame this in a very telling way, you claim the left just hates Capitalism and from what I gather that's because its good to be in that position. You then pick a few items on the opposing side that are morally wrong. To create a scale and to then weight the other side without any inflection on true liberal issues. >Call me crazy, but my spidey-senses get a little tingly when people on the right start whining about the "blood of our nation" being "poisoned." It sounds fashy because... it's fascism. Context is important. Its estimated that 11 million illegals are in the USA and those are all believed to be dramatically lower than the real numbers. Cities and counties are experiencing housing, safety and financial concerns without the added pressure of Illegals. poison is a bad term no argument here. That said a nation with social services that rely upon tax paying and law abiding citizens will fail if the people in that nation do not contribute. To advertise the nation as a sanctuary for the worlds poor is to bring about certain defeat in a competitive international community. I dont hate you. I listen to you. I don't however agree that calling people hitler is a winning formula to any repeat ANY of the nations issues.
> Context is important. There is no context in which "the blood of our nation is being poisoned" is an acceptable phrase to utter when discussing the topic of immigration. I don't know why it should require any kind of effort to convince you of that, but apparently it does, and that's not a good look for you. It doesn't matter how many undocumented immigrants are in the United States. There could be 100 million, but politically speaking, that phrase should disqualify a person from attaining any kind of political office. In Trump's case, it helps solidify his lead as the Republican nominee. Again, not a good look. What part of "Channeling the rhetoric of a genocidal dictator is bad" is confusing??? A few years ago when my kid was playing Fortnite, I asked him who he was talking to on his headset. It was some kid in New York who was a Syrian refugee. Suffice it to say, the younger generations are likely going to destroy the Republican Party if it insists on demonizing (to use your word) the most marginalized people in our society and on our planet. But since the party offers nothing to improve the material conditions of its voters, that's the only policy we should expect to hear. EDIT: Maybe I'm missing some "context," but it sounds like Republicans want to just start gunning down people at the border. Can you explain this in a way that doesn't sound like making excuses for fascism? Is "Have they started shooting yet?" the sole criterion for determining whether or not they're fascists? https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2024/01/11/gov-greg-abbott-says-migrants-not-being-shot-because-biden-would-charge-us-with-murder/
So in terms of recent polling showed that 41% of Americans want levels decreased, that's legal immigration. 73% say that the government is doing a very bad job at handling the border crisis. Legitimate real concerns supported by a very large group of people. This issue is being ignored. Even under a Trump administration people wanted levels lower and thought it sill wasn't enough. So you have to reconcile with the fact that many Americans are done with the status quo. Candidates of all parties tap into what the voting base wants. Drug cartels and human smuggles are committing absolutely atrocious acts of violence and abuse to both Americans and migrants. 11+ million illegal immigrants are taking jobs, services and housing that could go to tax paying, law abiding Americans. A conservative president offered amnesty and even still decades later the issue is only growing. Liberal institutions rely upon tax paying individuals who support their existence. Continued neglect of the border will result in their inevitable collapse.
I hear you, but... **"They took our jobs!" is still not a valid excuse for "The blood of our nation is being poisoned!"** It doesn't matter how many times they say they want better border security if the Republican Party couples that with racist dog whistles. It exposes the sentiment that lies just below the surface. Is that "appealing to the base," as you say? If so, that says a lot about the Republican Party, doesn't it? That they have to smoosh together legitimate concerns about immigration with openly white nationalist rhetoric? I'm old enough to remember the border leaking like a sieve during the 80s and 90s. What we're dealing with now is bad, but it's nothing at all in the grand scheme of things, and it's hardly the reason so many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. It is, however, a handy distraction from the fact that Republicans do absolutely nothing to improve the lives of Americans any time they hold any kind of power (witness the current House of Representatives as the most recent iteration of that truth).
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946
>Then after its 100% proven they are a traitorous evil dictator they always stay in the same country and abide by the court system. Not always but yeah. See: Hitler.
> These citizens have legitimate concerns about the state of the country/world you cannot dismiss them, you have to engage with them and create solutions. I personally would rather not negotiate with terrorists, including the lynch mob with the Trump stamp of approval, who ran amok inside the Capitol with weapons, Confederate flags, and Nazi imagery. > Endless migrants and ballooning national debt is as equal a concern as police brutality and education. Let’s address both. You’re asking us in this thread to address four issues, not two. > One party cant ignore half the country while they are in power, this is a problem that both sides share. Just watch me, Donald Trump apologist. It’s easy to ignore and demonize the fraction of the American population that does not believe that Joe Biden was the legitimate winner of the 2020 election. I have no beef with conservatism as a political concept, as disagreeable as it can be. However, let me put it to you this way: On January 6, 2001, there was an orderly transition of power. Al Gore, as Vice President of the United States, oversaw the official certification of his own defeat in the 2000 presidential election, without the votes in Florida that the Supreme Court prevented from being counted. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney received the keys to the White House, and the rest is history. No crying over a stolen election. No chaos. No mob. Al Gore took the L with true sportsmanship. Can you say that about the electoral certification that occurred on January 6, 2021? The next certification would occur on January 6, 2025. If Donald Trump (or whoever the Republican candidate would be) wins in November, there would likely be an orderly transition of power, where Biden and Harris would begrudgingly hold their nose and accept their defeat with grace and humility. Otherwise, if Trump loses again, he and his supporters would likely attempt to fuck shit up once again, this time from the outside. That is why I would prefer to demonize and ignore the Donald Trump cult and their “legitimate concerns.”
>I personally would rather not negotiate with terrorists, including the lynch mob with the Trump stamp of approval, who ran amok inside the Capitol with weapons, Confederate flags, and Nazi imagery. Documents are out now. You can watch videos of police letting people in, standing by doing nothing. The FBI heads being asked if there was incitement on their part and they wont confirm that agents were on the ground among the trespassers. Believe what you want but only one death occurred and it was a Trump supporter. That's either not fitting the narrative or the worst attempt at terror in history. >You’re asking us in this thread to address four issues, not two. Both sides of the aisle... >No crying over a stolen election. No chaos. No mob. Al Gore took the L with true sportsmanship. Bush v. Gore was the opposite of what you stated. Gore fought that he won the election and it went to the supreme court. Its happened in the past before as well. Many candidates have argued the results of elections. >Can you say that about the electoral certification that occurred on January 6, 2021? Yes we can, it was a contentious result that both candidates argued at times that numbers had been skewed and needed review. The winner tends not to fight that hard because the onus is on the loser to prove they should have won. >If Donald Trump (or whoever the Republican candidate would be) wins in November, there would likely be an orderly transition of power, where Biden and Harris would begrudgingly hold their nose and accept their defeat with grace and humility. No chance. States are already fighting to ban Trump from their ballots. You honestly think that the person they call a traitor and dictator will be welcomed in? All in all its crazy that if a MAGA supporter says we should stop allowing millions of illegals into the country the automatic response is to blast them for being in a cult and being anti-science. Its crazy. That's a real problem and is a legitimate concern that people have and needs to be addressed.
> police letting people in how many times does this claim need to be debunked?
There is video of police opening doors and allowing people to walk by them. Compare this reaction to that of many viral videos of cops going savage for a traffic stop. You can say it's not real but video evidence has been released to the public which shows officers not doing the job they are paid to do.
no, some cherry picked footage was pushed out with a false narrative. people were told to leave. police were injured https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifact-did-capitol-police-let-mob-trump-su/
The Viking guy was allowed to walk through the building with two police escorts. Its on video. In your own source they admit to police taking selfies with the trespassers. Again I want you to stop and think of the videos of a traffic stop or drug arrest in which the police will choke slam, taze, pepper spray or even shoot you if you don't cooperate. Warnings days prior to Jan 6 were issued and now hearings and reviews are being done as to why the response was so bad. It was an utter failure to control a crowd.
people committing crimes isn't the fault of law enforcement, it's the fault of the criminals. over 1000 people were convicted of crimes As the NY Times demonstrated, the events of Jan 6 were much more violent than the far right would have you believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0
All they have to do is pick a different person that isn’t a huge piece of shit. Trump has no policies different than any other Republican. They want the piece of shit and deserve to be demonized for worshipping him and turning the majority of their party into a bunch of ridiculous morons.
In general, It would be good to have public conversations about cult characteristics often.
What confuses me this time around though is…what are these people getting out of this? I mean, at least with Manson (in the beginning) those young girls were getting the attention they weren’t getting at home & they felt like they were a part of something. And they had a direct connection to Manson himself. Most of Trump’s followers never even met Trump; nor would he be caught dead in these towns, trailers and basements they call home. The Manson girls were often barely 18 while Trumps followers are usually well into their 30’s and older. During 1/6 Trump was disgusted by how fat & old the people at the insurrection looked. He insults these followers and they continue to come back to get insulted even more. With Jim Jones, he also had a message at first that a lot of people believed in & wanted to be a part of (inclusion, diversity, taking care of the less fortunate) and I can see why they wanted to sign up for that. But of course like with Manson these leaders take a very dangerous turn and that’s when things turn tragic and criminal. Those are the only two really big cults in America that reached the same high profile status as Trump. I’m just concerned because those both ended very badly & with as amped up as these Trump followers are…I think a lot of us aren’t really sure where this is going next.
A very weak one too, can’t even stand up without help
Not saying he’s a White Supremacist is the bigger, more obvious lapse. Acknowledging that could have stopped things before they got worse.
When your heroes are Vladimir Putin and Jim Jones…
The medias worst lapse: refusing to stop reporting on a has been president instead of focusing attention on what new candidates have to offer the country