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If the dems really didn’t want Biden he would’ve lost his first primary. I helped campaign against him. He won and then released his new policy plans which were much closer to what I wanted in the first place. Eventually from seeing his achievements in office I grew to actually support him more than in the 2020 general.
You’re paying more attention to details than I am. Long ago there was talk about shoring up democracy by stacking the SC, getting rid of the electoral college, etc. What has been done or is planned to strengthen democracy since the insurrection? Thx
This is one example from whitehouse.gov:
In January 2023, President Biden signed into law the Electoral Count Reform Act, which establishes clear guidelines for our system of certifying and counting electoral votes for President and Vice President. This Act aims to preserve the will of the people and to protect against attempts to overturn our elections, like the attempt that led to the January 6 insurrection.
I'm (very cautiously) optimistic that once he's in his second term and no longer has to worry about winning an election ever again, he can actually buckle down and get shit done
Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion.
Trump is incredibly narcissistic. He said one Thanksgiving that he was "thankful for himself", and took credit for the vaccine rollout. There was also the time where his cabinet meeting turned into a really strange event of members basically praising him (to which Trump was very happy about).
Trump wants to be a dictator, is openly racist, and loves violence, as long as it's done to the right people. Just look at all of the times he's insulted Mexico! He has referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries". He's also said there are "fine people on both sides" during Charlottesville protests; most of the people on the other side were right-wing white supremacists. He's also claimed he'll "be a dictator for a day", and commented during the 2020 George Floyd riots that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts". Oh, and he's a big fan of the January 6 terrorists.
Trump has a total lack of empathy, understanding and compassion. He said that "Hurricane Maria wasn't truly a disaster like Katrina was" despite the fact that over 3,000 people died. He also basically bragged about having the tallest building in NYC after 9/11. He called war veterans "losers and suckers" and said that "he only likes people that weren't captured", and also mocked a disabled reporter. Oh, and he doesn't own any pets, because he has no kindness in his heart.
Trump is an idiot and a liar. He suggested nuking hurricanes once, and called the death toll of Hurricane Maria a "hoax that the Democrats made up". His COVID-19 response was atrocious, saying that "it'll just go away" and "we have it under control" when it clearly wasn't.
This creature has [an extensive rap sheet of atrocities](https://d3thpuk46eyjbu.cloudfront.net/uploads/production/4932/1611176076/original/LEST_WE_FORGET_THE_HORRORS_%288%29.pdf?1611176076) and god knows how many more. He is a sociopath, he is a disgrace, he is a bigot, he is a selfish, sadistic and heartless monster and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Don’t show them this then, or mention the full page ad he took out in the NYT after his trip to the USSR in 1987 either.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/
Yet. Abortion is not murder.
Ask anyone of them if the government should be allowed to take their "spare" kidney and force its 'donation' to a child...especially a black child...they will *all* say no.
Yet, people capable of becoming pregnant must be forced by the government to give their entire bodies to a fetus for its gestation and birth...despite all of the risks...and the lack of autonomy and privacy - both given by the Constitution and denied by the Chrisitan fascist judged on the USSC.
MY BODY IS MINE. MY PROPERTY.
No human has the right to use another's body without consent.
Every human has the right to use force to protect themselves and their bodies from being used without consent
Without consent, abortion is the moral and ethical choice.
When abortion is illegal, the state takes ownership of the person's body - slavery.
>Also their coverage of the SF Bay Area is a fucking joke.
Same for us in Portland, OR. I apparently live in a charred crater of a city and didn't even know it.
That was appalling. Add the Times to the growing list of so called liberal media cheering on fascism. The daily story should be how can a dude who openly tried to overthrow the government be allowed to run for president.
Omg, one of them tried to tell me that having some newsletter about how Trump might be in some legal trouble completely justifies their nonsense coverage. It was bonkers how out of touch that AMA was.
>have you ever thought about how Biden is old?
Yes.
But you have nearly 350 million people in the USA, and the two best leaders you can find are a disgrace like Trump and a man who, while clearly the better person, better leader, and better choice, is mentally and physically past his best. That makes him vulnerable to smears based on age and memory despite Trump being just a few years younger.
Why is there no strong opposition leader? Is the cupboard really so bare in US politics, and if so, why?
They are incumbents in their party which makes them de facto leaders. Biden and trump will have the most money and support from their parties when they choose to run. Incumbent advantage is a real advantage provided the country is doing ok.
We have primaries to choose party leader. The last time an incumbent was ran against was 1988 and it damaged their party. So biden choosing to run means no one wants to run and damage him prior to the election.
In the republican primary. Trump running but people in his party were running but they not running against him so much as running for cabinet positions in his party so it was a game of ass kiss trump the most in his primary.
So yes there is, but dems made a tactical decisions and republicans are beholden to the 50-60% magas that run the party.
1988? Are you sure you don't have the years mixed up. No incumbent ran in the 1988 presidential election. That was Reagan's last full year as president.
I found out this past year that trump said ON THE DAY OF 9/11 (is that correct ?) after the towers collapsed he bosted that HIS building was the tallest now.
Holy FUCK. Talk about narcissism.
FUCK FUCK FUCK him and his supporters so hard. As someone who had family working in NYC that day, fuck him and all his traitorous followers.
And to hear them say "American First" and "Make America Great Again". Like he doesn't give A FUCK about America nor does he give a fuck about them.
trumpeteers are so god damn stupid it hurts.
That's just insane that his mind even went there at all and said that out loud. That's what you call "personal thoughts" that you don't say out loud if you have even 2 brain cells to rub together.
And lol it's not even true, per what you said, making an already horrible comment that much worse 🤦🤦♀️.
And MAGGATS want that shit stain to be president. 🤡
The couldn't point out a traitor even with a neon flashing sign saying TRAITOR.
It's because a lot of Americans (I am NOT saying I agree with this) feel that the world is broken. They want a candidate who echoes that sentiment. Biden is seen as a champion of the status quo, whereas Trump has been very successful at selling himself as an agent of change.
I think you are half right. People do see the world as broken and people (rightfully or wrongly) see the status quo as a big part of the reason why we are where we are. Trump has been successful at selling himself as an agent of rage. A reflection of how some people feel. The way he governed proved he was just another standard republican. Dems have failed to acknowledge that things are broken for the majority of people.
I was thinking “agent of chaos” and somehow his voters don’t think they would personally be affected by that chaos, but your “agent of rage” is better.
Completely agree with your point. And I would like to tip my hat to you. I wish more of my interactions on here were as lovely as this one. All the best to you!
"Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion."
My sincere hope is some Democrat uses this on a billboard. Better yet, in a 15/30 second TV spot with nothing more than these words on a black background
(Of course only if ok_world is good with it.)
I agree with everything in your post besides the pet thing. Hey, I love animals but I don’t want the responsibility, messes, and financial burdens of pet ownership. That doesn’t make me unkind.
Ivana Trump in her memoir wrote about his dislike of dogs and his hostility towards her poodle
[This article goes into it a bit](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/donald-trump-dogs#:~:text=The%20creatures%20have%20never%20done,%E2%80%9Cbark%20at%20him%20territorially%E2%80%9D.&text=Ivana%20never%20understood%20Trump's%20hostility%20to%20dogs.)
> Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion.
That is the entire point, no? His appeal is that he frustrates and angers the people they hate and that he plans to harm the people they hate. His character pushes him towards "vengeance" against his enemies, and to his supporters this is a proxy for what they want to do to theirs. When they place him above morals and above laws, in a position of absolute power, they do the same with the movement that brought him to that point. This operates on the same emotional principle as people supporting a law designed to control, hurt and harm a group of people they don't like. In an authoritarian worldview, the ability to do harm without recourse is an aspect of power, and power equals social status. By giving him the power to do harm, they get to have power and status over those they hate and despise. The angry, spiteful narcissism makes him more, rather than less suitable for the role he is supposed to play. By "following" a completely immoral man into doing what they wanted to do anyway, they get to imagine that they're not responsible for their own moral choices.
And because this is an emotional rather than a rational impulse, neither Trump nor his supporters need to understand this dynamic to get swept up by it.
Indeed. Reactionary politics always proposes a moral hierarchy and wants to turn it into a social one. The need to place themselves above their fellow citizens based not on wealth, but on identity, i.e. having the "right" ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, ideology, ... This desire for hierarchy, status and privilege and the ethical considerations of the actions required to bring it about is what drives them to attach themselves to a leader who is totally amoral.
In a way, they hide behind him because, at all cost, they have to avoid seeing themselves as human beings making choices with moral consequences. Who better to choose as a figurehead than a man who does not know right from wrong? Who better than a thoroughly stupid man who acts on his impulses without ever thinking about their consequences or the impact on others? They "follow" him so that it is not they who do the things they want to do anyway.
It’s not difficult to beat though. It’s only difficult when democracy is not working correctly (ie. when the government is not getting enough done to benefit the majority of its citizens). You look at other countries that have healthier, more progressive run democracies right now: Scandinavian countries, Australia/New Zealand, even Canada; the far-right political ideology is far from mainstream and has little power of persuasion. The problem in America right now is we have a flawed democracy that allows the minority to stunt the will of the majority. Additionally, one side of the political spectrum (the right) backed by the corporate, wealthiest donors has worked for years to ensure that they control 90% of the institutional levers of government (whether it’s through the judiciary, gerrymandering, the media, etc.) to make sure democracy doesn’t function as intended. The best example we see of this in today’s America - the ridiculous level of gun violence and the inability to actually pass significant gun control laws to help prevent it, even though a large majority of American recognize the need for them. As such a political landscape has taken place, rather than moving forward progressively as it should, America has economically and socially moved backwards over the last couple decades. That leads to a large portion of the population looking for a new form of government to help solve their issues b/c their own is getting it done. Obviously, fascism and other extreme right political systems are not the answer, but rather the answer is to make changes to our democracy so that it does start working for the benefit of more people. However, if nobody on the Left starts aggressively offering and communicating real solutions in a determined, meaningful and charismatic way; the rise of populist nationalism and other extreme forms of politics will continue to grow. People are almost always going to be attracted to change (no matter the form), when they realize the status quo isn’t working for them!
Hilary had the most possible baggage, a horrible pick. Biden is uniquely uncharismatic. Literally they can just campaign on Medicare for all and pull funding from Israel until they stop genociding and even Biden could win in a landslide. The whole point of Biden is that the ruling class is dunking on us. They are saying your government will NEVER make permanent positive structural changes, only band aids when we need to let air out of the tire. If you think you can do better, we will just do fascism
Biden and his cabinet have been incredibly productive. 5.5 million new businesses in 2023, paired with the single largest expansion of real household income since the 50s.
Old man, sure, but I have no qualms casting my vote, what so ever.
The fact that anyone questions a vote for a capable, stalwart, and, yes, aging leader, compared to a criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me.
> The fact that anyone questions a vote for a capable, stalwart, and, yes, aging leader, compared to a criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me.
You forgot to add "*aging* criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me."
You forgot, the unemployment rate is down to 3.7% which is incredibly low. Biden has seen the lowest total unemployment rate in the history of the country. Some commenter above said that Americans feel like things are broken. Pretty hard to feel broken when you're not broke. If you've got a job, you've got money coming in which means you aren't broke. You might be living paycheck to paycheck, that's not the same as being broke.
Outside of being old and unappealing Biden has actually done an excellent job of repairing most of the damage caused by Trump. Unfortunately the right wing propaganda machine has done a better job of lying to ignorant voters.
The underlying problem is that the status quo does not work for most Americans, hence why people like Trump come around and take power. Even if Biden wins again this year, until the Democrats actually try and tackle the issues that’s affecting most working class Americans, it’s just kicking the can down the road for the next populist Republican to take control.
Most of our problems come from the GOP. Every time we have a Republican President they tank the economy and cause inflation. Once the Democrats fix the economy we elect a Republican President. Round and round we go. George HW was the last reasonable Republican President and was voted out for it. Fox News and the right wing propaganda machine has created a nation of ignorant morons.
Democrats do not fix the economy. They merely repair it enough for status quo to get an even tighter grip. Housing has been gobbled up by corporations increasingly under Obama and then again under Biden. GOP fuels the corruption and then Democrats just clean it up to make it seem like it isn't off the rails but we have *increased* military and police spending while *increasing* wealth inequality.
The economy is not fixed. It is more rigged now than ever before and you can thank Papa Biden and corporate Dems for that. "But they didn't have a majority!" Listen, if Manchin and Sinema are derailing your agenda then you kick them out of the party. It's that simple. But Dems continually encourage it by catering to them. I'm sick of the excuses.
These fucks campaigned *for* an anti abortion candidate over a progressive because they *do not care about your rights.* They care about maintaining the status quo. They have no plausible deniability anymore.
And leftists who choose purity over pragmatism. We have to work toward a better world together incrementally. It’s is a forever ongoing process. So we have to vote for Biden this time. All of us.
And for some reason the Israel/Gaza war is the breaking point for a lot of them. They'd rather Trump be in office because they don't like how Biden is handling it.
Not liking Biden's handling is fair enough. But, as President, Trump touted a "peace plan" that was developed with no Palestinian input that would further legitimize Israeli settlements on the West Bank. He appointed a guy who finances those settlements as Ambassador. His administration slashed aid to Palestine (including assistance to hospitals), and they explicitly legitimized Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights and the West Bank by saying the US will no longer consider them illegal.
Do they really think that dude would handle the war *better* for the Palestinians? Hell, he might have the US join in on the bombing. That's more likely than him putting any pressure on Israel to stop.
I’m convinced there is a targeted mutually beneficial (not necessarily coordinated) Chinese/Russian/Trump social media astroturfing campaign going on that is banking on making Gaza a losing issue for Biden no matter what even though he’s being forced in reality to navigate supporting a regional ally, preserving human rights and dignity, and preventing world war 3. And in my estimation, he and his team are doing it better than anyone could, but it’s so easy to forget the pragmatic big picture of complicated, chaotic reality.
This basically what has happened. Russia, Iran and other extremist groups realized a long time ago that they could launder extreme ideas and division into the US through certain segments of academia.
Netanyahu's probably riding it as well. I think Russia's the one who sent the cash to pull off the inciting incident, but all of them are throwing spare money to cripple the US / elect Trump.
Seriously. We know the bastard wants Trump back. And there's a big chunk of the left who seem to be broadcasting "we'll help you do that so long if you ignore Biden and make the occupation as shitty as possible." It's a painful irony.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Russia had something to do with the initial attack as well. A way to sow discord to put them in a better position for Ukraine.
No this is so stupid. People are saying they don’t want to vote for a man doing not enough to prevent a genocide and actively giving arms to the oppressive force. The rates on civilian and child death are STAGGERING. No one is saying they’d rather Trump, they’re saying Joe has done a shit job with it and they don’t want to vote for the guy who promises a bit less genocide. It’s not exactly an appealing platform.
I don’t think it is fair to judge Biden on this issue. He isn’t the one that allocated aid to Israel. It was a 10 year package passed by congress and the Obama administration. Most of that money goes to a missile defense system. Biden has stepped in and halted arms aid to Israel for fear it would be used by extreme Israelis looking to expand settlements. The conflict hasn’t turned into a regional war which I thought it would. Iran has largely stayed out of it which I thought they wouldn’t. He has called for a cease fire. He has been working towards a cease fire plan. What exactly do you want him to do? Declare war on Israel?
Anyone hating Biden over this issue at the risk of electing Trump is a fucking idiot. I’ve helped back saying that, but at this point it’s true, and they are being manipulated by social media campaigns from foreign adversaries trying to create divisions and chaos in the US
It is amazing how many people believe they are immune to propaganda and then literally repeat Republican propaganda about Biden's age.
"Biden hasn't done.."
Shut up, the Biden administration has done shit tons.
"Things were better under Trump..."
Shut up, we had a fucking plague, almost went to war with Iran, had a bigoted government that attacked everyone but rich, white men, and effectively destroyed a gift wrapped economy from Obama.
I think the other part of this is that Biden has done well in a traditional way. The problem is lots of people think the bigger systems are broken and Biden doesn’t. So like, student loan forgiveness is good, but it doesn’t address the problem of college being so expensive. Obviously Trump is worse by every metric, but he is telling people what they already think, the world is broken.
So I agree ignorant voters are a big part of the problem, I hate that the DNC doesn’t get more blame for favoring candidates who can’t seem to read the room on how pissed Americans are about how broken the world is.
It was the same issue Hilary had, everyone was so shocked she lost, but it seemed pretty obvious to many she wasn’t reading the room on how angry people are about the state of the country.
> The problem is lots of people think the bigger systems are broken and Biden doesn’t.
Agreed...
> So like, student loan forgiveness is good, but it doesn’t address the problem of college being so expensive.
... but this is a bad example. Biden is hyping loan forgiveness because he can do some of it on his own, and he might convince Congress to allow more, because both sides know it's an easy way to buy votes. Any kind of real solution for the cost of education would have to be driven by Congress, and that's outside the realm of possibility for the foreseeable future.
Of course, big systemic change is hard, probably impossible in this Congress. It is about how you communicate though. Like if Biden was talking about how the system was broken and he was doing what he could while trying and failing to make bigger changes that would be enough.
Sadly, being a candidate is a very different skill set than being a president.
This is what I can’t wrap my head around. “He’s old!” I don’t give a flying fuck, dude has crushed it. Even if he is old, he surrounds himself with competent people who have done a great job. Why wouldn’t I be excited to vote for him again?
If they have to weekend at Bernie’s him for the next four years, I don’t care.
I’m sorry, but I completely disagree with this take. I voted for Biden and I will again, but what he has accomplished could have been accomplished by a myriad of other democrats.
There are plenty of democrats out there who could run in the same or similar platform and achieved the same levels of success with them while eliminating a lot of what the right wing propaganda machine has been successful in casting doubt around Biden.
You fail to realize that the far right puts energy to cast doubt BECAUSE he is the leader when these good things happened. Are you so daft to think that if someone other than Biden were president that they republicans wouldn't be doing the same exact doubt-casting on that person? Or you think they'd still be going after Biden instead of this hypothetical POTUS?
And don't say "they other person would have no baggage." The republicans will INVENT BS-made-up baggage for anyone. They mocked a woman for dancing while in college FFS.
>it’s kind of scary there doesn’t appear to be anyone warming up in the bullpen
What in the world?
The Democrats have an insanely strong bullpen and it's bonkers they're wasting.
Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker have all been successful governors of important states. They're in their prime and one ought to be the nominee.
Newsom basically single handedly ended Ron DeSantis' campaign but debating him.
You also have some decent Senators and House personalities.
They all say this one out but one will absolutely be the nominee in 2028.
Biden looks old next to Trump to many people. I get it. Democrats should be running someone like Newsom who would makes Trump look positively ancient and who can run rhetorical circles him with no stutter or mannerisms that could be mistaken for advanced age.
Anyway, sorry but I think you're dead wrong. The Democrats have the best bullpen they've had in years and are squandering it.
This is the part people are having trouble understanding. Biden had the ability, hell responsibility, to firmly be a one-term president and cycle in some new blood.
If the Democrats have as “deep of a bullpen” as they claim, it would’ve been by far the smartest thing to do. No Democrat under 40 wants to vote for either old guy in the race.
DNC is just terrified that Newsome would’ve gotten slaughtered by Trump… because he would’ve. There’s nobody behind Gavin that has any chance of winning right now.
The problem is that Biden is gonna RBG himself and leave the Dems stranded with no backup plan.
All of those people 100% would have beaten Biden in a primary, but clearly the party has been immensely effective in preventing any kind of serious internal challenge.
I don’t think people are realizing how deeply unpopular Biden is with everyone but online liberals. I genuinely think he is the only person that Trump can possibly beat in a general election.
Yeah the 2028 presidential roster looks pretty great with the three you named.
Now, if the DNC tries to force Kamala down our throat I may be done voting in presidential elections for good until the DNC is turned over inside and out. Down ballot only
>Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker
Corrupt, corporate and billionaire. No, no and no
The absolute strongest candidate is Tim Walsh, the Minnesota governor. He's an old white guy from the midwest that makes regular people feel safe and then he's progressive with no corporate interests.
But he'll never be the candidate because he's not corrupt, corporate or a billionaire.
Newsom, Whitaker and Pritzker would have been great options if there was an actual primary. The time for them to replace Biden was in 2022.
It might have been a different case any of them had participated in the 2020 democratic primaries or if one of the candidates from the 2020 primaries was part of this strong bullpen. At this point they just don’t have the national name recognition to replace Biden.
There’s also a chance of upsetting the base if one of them were to become the nominee without a primary. The only realistic option is Kamala Harris who is likely a much weaker candidate than Joe Biden.
This is a weird thing to say given that there ARE other candidates in the Dem primary who aren't getting more than 2-3% of the vote.
>any other candidate in either party would make the election a cake walk.
Let me tell you how awful this is. I have voted in every election since 18-year-olds were given the vote. So my first presidential election was in 1972. Yeah, do the math…I’m a boomer. The choice was Nixon or McGovern. I worked on McGovern’s campaign. We knew he didn’t have a chance in hell (borne out by the results), but I voted for him.
Since that time, there have been times when I seriously asked myself, “Why can’t I have a legitimate 3rd party candidate?” So I worked for and voted for John Anderson against Ronald Reagan.
All these years later, I am given the choice of a psychopath, or a really nice guy who, a least, has foreign policy experience, and would have a fairly consistent cabinet so we don’t get annexed by Russia. (I kid.) Imagine my discomfort in voting for another aging white man who has some chops, or throwing my vote away on a 3rd party candidate.
For God’s sake, give me a choice I can live with!
Yeah, Biden is not a perfect candidate. But if you were with McGovern back then, you probably instantly saw what Trump was all about when he decided to take Putins lead and go into politics.
But just look at the results, personality-wise but also in terms of pushing a sane progressive agenda:
Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush (CIA/New World Order), Bush (Village Idiot), Trump
or
(McGovern), Carter, Clinton, Obama, Biden
As bad as it may seem, it still seems pretty obvious to me. Avoid fascists and WW3 gamesters.
For Indies, who have we had? George Wallace, Ross Perot, Jon Anderson (wtf?), Ralph 'The Loner' Nader, Jill 'The idiot' Stein?
Marianne Willismason is the best of them all but you know she does not have a chance, and so does she! I like, and have met and talked with Cornel West. I've also met and interviewed Nader, and kayaked with Jill. But none of them were perfect either, and all had obvious (to me in the flesh) flaws. Trump, otoh, is a polished rich fuck who manipulates and poses.
Man, the choice is obvious.
///Edit: I also interviewed Jesse Jackson during the 1996 campaign, and he was by far the best in terms of presence and policy, but he was a pre-Obama black candidate. Too bad, he would have made a great POTUS.///
From over the Atlantic it certainly looks like the only reason that works is because the other side is also "vote red no matter what" / "lesser of two evils".
If the American system can't get itself out of the political gridlock it is in I'm fearing for the oldest democracy on this planet. "If the others would just lose all power we could fix everything" won't work.
Presidents governing mostly through humongous yearly budget bills and EOs is inching closer toward a future were one of them will have popular support to "just do away with congress. All they do is posturing, soundbites and meaningless grandstanding".
And even if that guy is "on your side" there will be a successor/heir/knife in the back and all bets are off at that point.
Imagine if Clinton had appointed those 3 justices instead of Barrett, Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch.
That alone would have put our country light years ahead of where we are. Don't know what I mean? Ask.
Autocrats are popular. They always have been.
Democrats and people who care about democracy should be very aware that Trump has a very strong chance at winning again in November.
Biden is apparently polling below Trump in a lot of battleground states and overall.
>Biden is apparently polling below Trump in a lot of battleground states and overall.
Looking into those polls is not favorable to the integrity of those polls.
>There are problems with the NYT poll - It has Trump winning both Hispanics and women - an impossibility. It’s likely voter electorate is +3 Republican - something we haven’t seen in a general election in actual voting in 20 years, and only once in the last 8 Presidential elections going all the way back to 1992. In the last 4 Presidential elections, Democrats have averaged 51%, Republicans 46%, and we gained ground in the 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023 elections. After all these years of strong Democratic vote performance for the electorate to become +3 Republican this year is, um, unlikely. Overestimating their intensity and strength and underestimating ours was a central reason so many saw the red wave that never came in 2022.
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas
In addition to this, the Republicans are having something approaching a primary, which means that they're on people's minds and putting out ads. The Democrats haven't started putting out ads yet, and won't until closer to the election.
This is drivel. You can’t compare the polling numbers of relatively unknowns to Trump. Newsom, Whitimer, really anyone other than Biden or Harris would destroy Trump in a general election. They just need the party machine behind them. Biden has had the party machine behind him for years and has come up short. I’m so disgusted by this horrible uninspiring party. No fight, no ideas, no spine. We are sleepwalking into another Trump term.
If he is our best bet, and there is literally no one better that can run for president in the democratic party, America is royally fucked. I'm voting for him because Trump is so much worse. But there are definitely better options.
This thread is incredible. I’m going to support the D candidate no matter what facts lie before me about his declining mental acumen, but can’t understand, under any circumstance, why the other side does the exact same for their candidate’s obvious shortfalls in character.
Weekend at Biden vs a crook. But it’s easier to point the finger at others than at the mirror.
\-Because we're not going to let anyone else run."
Don't get me wrong. I understand the assignment even if I don't like it, but damn do I wish we actually had a democracy in this country. Wouldn't it be lovely if people who were closer to fifty than a hundred were at least allowed to make an attempt at presidency?
Objectively wrong given that generic democrats poll higher than biden in the 2024 election. He is currently not the best bet for 2024 if you are speaking on winning and who best appeals to a democratic base. If you got someone younger with more charisma and better at campaigning how can you say "the best bet."
You’re going to get downvoted into oblivion. The Democrats should’ve positioned a progressive. They would’ve won by an absolute landslide against Trump.
We have 300 + million people in this country and two grandpas who can't get out of bed on their own basically need to become next president. What a sad reality. I am 32 so I can't run for president, but there is no one over age 45 who are better equipped than those two grandpas?? 🤦🏻♂️
Republican politicians seem to be afraid of their base. While Democrat politicians seem to believe they can ram whoever they want down their base's throats and it's all going to be peachy. Just an observation.
Any generic democrat does better than Biden.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/06/an-ominous-poll-democrats-what-it-says-about-biden-alternative/
And he's going to lose. Just like the hubris of RBG gave us the most durable hard right political SCOTUS in decades, the hubris of Joe Biden is going to give us President Trump *again*. I'm sure Gavin Newsom is pretty stoked about it, though, because after four more years of Trump he's going to be in a really great position to run for POTUS in 2028.
Always has been. He beat Trump once, if enough people vote he can do it again. And anyone saying he hasn't done enough, is [ignoring his record of accomplishments](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/) or cherry-picking specific things to be outraged about while ignoring other data.
I mean. That's sad. The dude is too old. He's done an alright job, good even. But Jon Stewart really hit the nail on the head (as usual). Like... we dont have anyone better? Really?
For me its not so much Biden but the people he has put in charge that are all working together to do great things for the country. Unlike Trump who brings in the uneducated, the unqualified and even worse, family members to help run the country.
Polls say any generic democrat would do better against Trump. It’s ridiculous that Democrats are risking our democracy on a guy who’s aiding a genocide and should be in a nursing home.
An alternative to Biden was never an option unless he withdrew, as we all initially expected would eventually happen. But he never did, we never got the choice, and now it’s too late. He was going to be a bridge to the deep bench of younger Dems. But no.
How do we know, democrats didn’t give us any options. If we’re going to continue with this system of voting “lesser of two evils” or not given an alternative to vote for then why vote anymore. This will be his coast term and likely will maintain the status quo so I’m out until there’s an alternative I can consciously vote for without having reservations
The NY times published a poll today showing Biden is losing by 5 points to Trump! Dems are gonna sleepwalk into a second Trump Presidency by shouting at their voters that they know best instead of actually listening to them and taking action. These are the same folks who pushed Bernie out. The Democratic party doesn’t listen to their own voters. “Vote blue no matter who” is an anti democratic mentality that disenfranchises regular voters. Every election they know better than us. Doesn’t seem very democratic to me.
The NYT poll is bad and they should feel bad. You should ALWAYS look below the surface numbers. There's plenty of hard work to do for the next \~7 months, but Dems are in an extremely strong position, actually.
>There are problems with the NYT poll - It has Trump winning both Hispanics and women - an impossibility. It’s likely voter electorate is +3 Republican - something we haven’t seen in a general election in actual voting in 20 years, and only once in the last 8 Presidential elections going all the way back to 1992. In the last 4 Presidential elections, Democrats have averaged 51%, Republicans 46%, and we gained ground in the 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023 elections. After all these years of strong Democratic vote performance for the electorate to become +3 Republican this year is, um, unlikely. Overestimating their intensity and strength and underestimating ours was a central reason so many saw the red wave that never came in 2022.
[https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas](https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas)
\>These are the same folks who pushed Bernie out.
Bernie was pushed out by primary voters in the south. Period. I voted for Bernie twice in the primaries because I supported his ideas about health care and unions and other things, but he never had any appeal to black women, who are the most important part of the democratic base. White, privileged progressives seem to never want to understand this fact.
You can cite all the conspiracy nonsense about Wasserman-Schultz or whatever you want, but Hillary won the primary because she appealed to the democratic base more, and the DNC knew that from the beginning. They actually had/have the data.
"vote blue no matter who" is an attempt to combat the Republican trashing of our judicial system. SCOTUS control in the hands of the Federalist Society has absolutely ransacked our country's attempt to reform itself after the fall of Jim Crow in the 60s and the establishment of the Voting Rights Act. Before that we were basically a whites only club.
Out actual multicultural society is only \~60-70 years old in practice, and it's being beaten down by right wing backlash. It's extremely short sighted to not band together and fight back.
"That said, there’s another point worth noting up front: Joe Biden is almost certainly the strongest possible candidate Democrats can field against Donald Trump in 2024."
Are you fucking kidding me? And 81 year old with a 36% approval rating?
How fucking sad is the state of American politics that the two presumptive nominees are each party’s best shot and best candidate. JFC. 350,000,000 people and these two jokers are the best we can do?
Echo chamber… never mind he’s the most unpopular incumbent ever and all his poll numbers sucked since day 1. I’m pissed at him for not retiring and letting strong younger qualified candidates run instead of making it a Russian roulette election. Coalition is no more, from blacks to Hispanics to Muslim Americans all their leaders are sounding alarms. This what Trump does to people they hate him so much they keep focusing on that and ignore the important stuff and he ends up leading the narrative. No Biden/Harris is not the best ticket against Trump, let’s admit that and try to get the coalition back and pray for democracy and I’m not even a fricken religious guy
He is at this point because it's too late to change. But if you look at what Dems have won with in the past, they almost always win when they pick a young (for the job) candidate who has a hopeful outlook. JFK, Clinton, Obama, even Carter in 76.
So who is that now? I'd contend they'd win with Whitmer. But it's too late to change.
There was never going to be a chance. Incumbency is too strong an advantage to give up. Biden is doing a great job in 1000 ways and will continue to do so.
The "bench" is strong and 2028 should be excellent. Newsom, Whitmer, Buttigieg...probably others...
Yeah, only because it's to late to sack him.
Edit: I'm being downvoted for saying an 81 year old man that mixes words up and stutters has people who'd be better candidates than him.
He was never going to be sacked. There was never another candidate. This weirdo swap out is so alternate reality that it would make maga people blush. **If** there were to be a real challenge to Biden they would have announced early last year. And since that didn't happen we knew it was going to be him.
his name is old. people dont have to think about Biden at all they know what they got. Even if he's barely there. Some new guy isnt gonna have that.
If he win's they should let hiim retire if he want to. Say medical causes or something
Biden is a decent man, achieved many good things during his first term, he even improved the economy, at least that what's the elites are selling us by holding up all those rosy charts and graphs. And yet, Biden is certain to lose to Trump on November 5th. Wake up Dem's -- Biden is LOSING! It is extremely clear to non-partisan voters that he is unable to campaign successfully against Trump, and it is clear to non-partisan voters that he will be unable to hold the office for another four years. It is URGENT that he step aside now, otherwise on November 5th the sociopathic autocrat returns to lay siege against the fundamental foundations of this country. And when that happens, should you have clung to this false Biden fever-dream to the very end, then you'll have only yourselves to blame.
Biden isn't making me nervous.... those libs who don't see the immense danger of the alternative are incredibly nerve wracking for me!!! Biden we can deal with. Trump we will die with.
Republicans win by tricking Democrats into focusing on Biden's imperfections, while totally ignoring the obvious fact that Trump is almost pure evil. Biden remains America's best available choice.
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Without ranked choice voting, the time to have built up a different anti cult candidate would have been last year.
If the dems really didn’t want Biden he would’ve lost his first primary. I helped campaign against him. He won and then released his new policy plans which were much closer to what I wanted in the first place. Eventually from seeing his achievements in office I grew to actually support him more than in the 2020 general.
You’re paying more attention to details than I am. Long ago there was talk about shoring up democracy by stacking the SC, getting rid of the electoral college, etc. What has been done or is planned to strengthen democracy since the insurrection? Thx
This is one example from whitehouse.gov: In January 2023, President Biden signed into law the Electoral Count Reform Act, which establishes clear guidelines for our system of certifying and counting electoral votes for President and Vice President. This Act aims to preserve the will of the people and to protect against attempts to overturn our elections, like the attempt that led to the January 6 insurrection.
Cool that sounds like it’s a good start at least. I’ll se if o see others on that site. Thank you!
I'm (very cautiously) optimistic that once he's in his second term and no longer has to worry about winning an election ever again, he can actually buckle down and get shit done
Depends on house and senate makeup, but we can hope and vote.
He can’t get anything done without congress. He got plenty done in his 1st term
*laughs in Obama's second term*
Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion. Trump is incredibly narcissistic. He said one Thanksgiving that he was "thankful for himself", and took credit for the vaccine rollout. There was also the time where his cabinet meeting turned into a really strange event of members basically praising him (to which Trump was very happy about). Trump wants to be a dictator, is openly racist, and loves violence, as long as it's done to the right people. Just look at all of the times he's insulted Mexico! He has referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries". He's also said there are "fine people on both sides" during Charlottesville protests; most of the people on the other side were right-wing white supremacists. He's also claimed he'll "be a dictator for a day", and commented during the 2020 George Floyd riots that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts". Oh, and he's a big fan of the January 6 terrorists. Trump has a total lack of empathy, understanding and compassion. He said that "Hurricane Maria wasn't truly a disaster like Katrina was" despite the fact that over 3,000 people died. He also basically bragged about having the tallest building in NYC after 9/11. He called war veterans "losers and suckers" and said that "he only likes people that weren't captured", and also mocked a disabled reporter. Oh, and he doesn't own any pets, because he has no kindness in his heart. Trump is an idiot and a liar. He suggested nuking hurricanes once, and called the death toll of Hurricane Maria a "hoax that the Democrats made up". His COVID-19 response was atrocious, saying that "it'll just go away" and "we have it under control" when it clearly wasn't. This creature has [an extensive rap sheet of atrocities](https://d3thpuk46eyjbu.cloudfront.net/uploads/production/4932/1611176076/original/LEST_WE_FORGET_THE_HORRORS_%288%29.pdf?1611176076) and god knows how many more. He is a sociopath, he is a disgrace, he is a bigot, he is a selfish, sadistic and heartless monster and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
“Well, at least he doesn’t support baby murder.” -Republicans
Cue the women whom have aborted his illegitimate zygotes.
Cue all the republican women who have had abortions and used IVF!
Nikki Haley, first in line!
“Well at least he isn’t a communist.” -Republicans It would just be something else.
Don’t show them this then, or mention the full page ad he took out in the NYT after his trip to the USSR in 1987 either. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842/
“But Hunter Biden called him ‘the big guy’”. -Republicans
Hunters laptop.
Yet. Abortion is not murder. Ask anyone of them if the government should be allowed to take their "spare" kidney and force its 'donation' to a child...especially a black child...they will *all* say no. Yet, people capable of becoming pregnant must be forced by the government to give their entire bodies to a fetus for its gestation and birth...despite all of the risks...and the lack of autonomy and privacy - both given by the Constitution and denied by the Chrisitan fascist judged on the USSC. MY BODY IS MINE. MY PROPERTY. No human has the right to use another's body without consent. Every human has the right to use force to protect themselves and their bodies from being used without consent Without consent, abortion is the moral and ethical choice. When abortion is illegal, the state takes ownership of the person's body - slavery.
I agree. Just pretending to be one of the christofascists.
Yes, this is all very bad but have you ever thought about how Biden is old? - NYTimes
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Is there a link to this? Their coverage of Biden and Trump has greatly disappointed me. Also their coverage of the SF Bay Area is a fucking joke.
>Also their coverage of the SF Bay Area is a fucking joke. Same for us in Portland, OR. I apparently live in a charred crater of a city and didn't even know it.
Basically any city that they deem a threat to NY they will just start putting out constant negative article about them.
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That was appalling. Add the Times to the growing list of so called liberal media cheering on fascism. The daily story should be how can a dude who openly tried to overthrow the government be allowed to run for president.
I was dying when they said Trump has promised to abide by "democratic norms" if he got a second term.
Yeah…fuck that shit.
Omg, one of them tried to tell me that having some newsletter about how Trump might be in some legal trouble completely justifies their nonsense coverage. It was bonkers how out of touch that AMA was.
>have you ever thought about how Biden is old? Yes. But you have nearly 350 million people in the USA, and the two best leaders you can find are a disgrace like Trump and a man who, while clearly the better person, better leader, and better choice, is mentally and physically past his best. That makes him vulnerable to smears based on age and memory despite Trump being just a few years younger. Why is there no strong opposition leader? Is the cupboard really so bare in US politics, and if so, why?
They are incumbents in their party which makes them de facto leaders. Biden and trump will have the most money and support from their parties when they choose to run. Incumbent advantage is a real advantage provided the country is doing ok. We have primaries to choose party leader. The last time an incumbent was ran against was 1988 and it damaged their party. So biden choosing to run means no one wants to run and damage him prior to the election. In the republican primary. Trump running but people in his party were running but they not running against him so much as running for cabinet positions in his party so it was a game of ass kiss trump the most in his primary. So yes there is, but dems made a tactical decisions and republicans are beholden to the 50-60% magas that run the party.
1988? Are you sure you don't have the years mixed up. No incumbent ran in the 1988 presidential election. That was Reagan's last full year as president.
I found out this past year that trump said ON THE DAY OF 9/11 (is that correct ?) after the towers collapsed he bosted that HIS building was the tallest now. Holy FUCK. Talk about narcissism. FUCK FUCK FUCK him and his supporters so hard. As someone who had family working in NYC that day, fuck him and all his traitorous followers. And to hear them say "American First" and "Make America Great Again". Like he doesn't give A FUCK about America nor does he give a fuck about them. trumpeteers are so god damn stupid it hurts.
Fun fact: not only did he boast that his tower had become the tallest, it was - of course - not true.
That's just insane that his mind even went there at all and said that out loud. That's what you call "personal thoughts" that you don't say out loud if you have even 2 brain cells to rub together. And lol it's not even true, per what you said, making an already horrible comment that much worse 🤦🤦♀️. And MAGGATS want that shit stain to be president. 🤡 The couldn't point out a traitor even with a neon flashing sign saying TRAITOR.
This article is about Biden.
All of this is true. Which is why it should be more alarming that in poll after poll Biden is not only losing to Trump but is viewed less favorably
It's because a lot of Americans (I am NOT saying I agree with this) feel that the world is broken. They want a candidate who echoes that sentiment. Biden is seen as a champion of the status quo, whereas Trump has been very successful at selling himself as an agent of change.
I think you are half right. People do see the world as broken and people (rightfully or wrongly) see the status quo as a big part of the reason why we are where we are. Trump has been successful at selling himself as an agent of rage. A reflection of how some people feel. The way he governed proved he was just another standard republican. Dems have failed to acknowledge that things are broken for the majority of people.
I was thinking “agent of chaos” and somehow his voters don’t think they would personally be affected by that chaos, but your “agent of rage” is better.
Completely agree with your point. And I would like to tip my hat to you. I wish more of my interactions on here were as lovely as this one. All the best to you!
"Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion." My sincere hope is some Democrat uses this on a billboard. Better yet, in a 15/30 second TV spot with nothing more than these words on a black background (Of course only if ok_world is good with it.)
People dont realize thats why they like trump. Not a reason not to vote for him.
I agree with everything in your post besides the pet thing. Hey, I love animals but I don’t want the responsibility, messes, and financial burdens of pet ownership. That doesn’t make me unkind.
Ivana Trump in her memoir wrote about his dislike of dogs and his hostility towards her poodle [This article goes into it a bit](https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/donald-trump-dogs#:~:text=The%20creatures%20have%20never%20done,%E2%80%9Cbark%20at%20him%20territorially%E2%80%9D.&text=Ivana%20never%20understood%20Trump's%20hostility%20to%20dogs.)
Your post says it all, we're votong against Trump, not for anyone.
None of this matters. People are voting for him. Democrats need to wake up and realize we are sleepwalking into a Trump victory in November.
> Trump is literally what happens if you take almost every horrific trait that can be seen in a human being and combine it into one concotion. That is the entire point, no? His appeal is that he frustrates and angers the people they hate and that he plans to harm the people they hate. His character pushes him towards "vengeance" against his enemies, and to his supporters this is a proxy for what they want to do to theirs. When they place him above morals and above laws, in a position of absolute power, they do the same with the movement that brought him to that point. This operates on the same emotional principle as people supporting a law designed to control, hurt and harm a group of people they don't like. In an authoritarian worldview, the ability to do harm without recourse is an aspect of power, and power equals social status. By giving him the power to do harm, they get to have power and status over those they hate and despise. The angry, spiteful narcissism makes him more, rather than less suitable for the role he is supposed to play. By "following" a completely immoral man into doing what they wanted to do anyway, they get to imagine that they're not responsible for their own moral choices. And because this is an emotional rather than a rational impulse, neither Trump nor his supporters need to understand this dynamic to get swept up by it.
He’s the actual answer to the question “what if reactionary politics was a person?”
Indeed. Reactionary politics always proposes a moral hierarchy and wants to turn it into a social one. The need to place themselves above their fellow citizens based not on wealth, but on identity, i.e. having the "right" ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, ideology, ... This desire for hierarchy, status and privilege and the ethical considerations of the actions required to bring it about is what drives them to attach themselves to a leader who is totally amoral. In a way, they hide behind him because, at all cost, they have to avoid seeing themselves as human beings making choices with moral consequences. Who better to choose as a figurehead than a man who does not know right from wrong? Who better than a thoroughly stupid man who acts on his impulses without ever thinking about their consequences or the impact on others? They "follow" him so that it is not they who do the things they want to do anyway.
Man this reads like some satire. I love it.
IMO a paper plate with “not Trump” scribbled on it would win the general
Dems felt that way back in 2016 and look what happened.
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It’s not difficult to beat though. It’s only difficult when democracy is not working correctly (ie. when the government is not getting enough done to benefit the majority of its citizens). You look at other countries that have healthier, more progressive run democracies right now: Scandinavian countries, Australia/New Zealand, even Canada; the far-right political ideology is far from mainstream and has little power of persuasion. The problem in America right now is we have a flawed democracy that allows the minority to stunt the will of the majority. Additionally, one side of the political spectrum (the right) backed by the corporate, wealthiest donors has worked for years to ensure that they control 90% of the institutional levers of government (whether it’s through the judiciary, gerrymandering, the media, etc.) to make sure democracy doesn’t function as intended. The best example we see of this in today’s America - the ridiculous level of gun violence and the inability to actually pass significant gun control laws to help prevent it, even though a large majority of American recognize the need for them. As such a political landscape has taken place, rather than moving forward progressively as it should, America has economically and socially moved backwards over the last couple decades. That leads to a large portion of the population looking for a new form of government to help solve their issues b/c their own is getting it done. Obviously, fascism and other extreme right political systems are not the answer, but rather the answer is to make changes to our democracy so that it does start working for the benefit of more people. However, if nobody on the Left starts aggressively offering and communicating real solutions in a determined, meaningful and charismatic way; the rise of populist nationalism and other extreme forms of politics will continue to grow. People are almost always going to be attracted to change (no matter the form), when they realize the status quo isn’t working for them!
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If only the knuckle-dragging idiot opinion leaders could realize what the implications of another trump presidency could mean.
They don't care because it means massive ad revenue and profits in the short term
Hilary had the most possible baggage, a horrible pick. Biden is uniquely uncharismatic. Literally they can just campaign on Medicare for all and pull funding from Israel until they stop genociding and even Biden could win in a landslide. The whole point of Biden is that the ruling class is dunking on us. They are saying your government will NEVER make permanent positive structural changes, only band aids when we need to let air out of the tire. If you think you can do better, we will just do fascism
Alright, but after this we’ve got to be done with the fuckin old people, ok?
Biden and his cabinet have been incredibly productive. 5.5 million new businesses in 2023, paired with the single largest expansion of real household income since the 50s. Old man, sure, but I have no qualms casting my vote, what so ever. The fact that anyone questions a vote for a capable, stalwart, and, yes, aging leader, compared to a criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me.
> 5.5 million new businesses in 2023 I’m one of them! 😃
Well done! Good luck -
Me too!
> The fact that anyone questions a vote for a capable, stalwart, and, yes, aging leader, compared to a criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me. You forgot to add "*aging* criminal charlatan, fraud, rapist and outright authoritarian is well beyond me."
You forgot, the unemployment rate is down to 3.7% which is incredibly low. Biden has seen the lowest total unemployment rate in the history of the country. Some commenter above said that Americans feel like things are broken. Pretty hard to feel broken when you're not broke. If you've got a job, you've got money coming in which means you aren't broke. You might be living paycheck to paycheck, that's not the same as being broke.
Outside of being old and unappealing Biden has actually done an excellent job of repairing most of the damage caused by Trump. Unfortunately the right wing propaganda machine has done a better job of lying to ignorant voters.
The underlying problem is that the status quo does not work for most Americans, hence why people like Trump come around and take power. Even if Biden wins again this year, until the Democrats actually try and tackle the issues that’s affecting most working class Americans, it’s just kicking the can down the road for the next populist Republican to take control.
Most of our problems come from the GOP. Every time we have a Republican President they tank the economy and cause inflation. Once the Democrats fix the economy we elect a Republican President. Round and round we go. George HW was the last reasonable Republican President and was voted out for it. Fox News and the right wing propaganda machine has created a nation of ignorant morons.
Democrats do not fix the economy. They merely repair it enough for status quo to get an even tighter grip. Housing has been gobbled up by corporations increasingly under Obama and then again under Biden. GOP fuels the corruption and then Democrats just clean it up to make it seem like it isn't off the rails but we have *increased* military and police spending while *increasing* wealth inequality. The economy is not fixed. It is more rigged now than ever before and you can thank Papa Biden and corporate Dems for that. "But they didn't have a majority!" Listen, if Manchin and Sinema are derailing your agenda then you kick them out of the party. It's that simple. But Dems continually encourage it by catering to them. I'm sick of the excuses. These fucks campaigned *for* an anti abortion candidate over a progressive because they *do not care about your rights.* They care about maintaining the status quo. They have no plausible deniability anymore.
And leftists who choose purity over pragmatism. We have to work toward a better world together incrementally. It’s is a forever ongoing process. So we have to vote for Biden this time. All of us.
And for some reason the Israel/Gaza war is the breaking point for a lot of them. They'd rather Trump be in office because they don't like how Biden is handling it. Not liking Biden's handling is fair enough. But, as President, Trump touted a "peace plan" that was developed with no Palestinian input that would further legitimize Israeli settlements on the West Bank. He appointed a guy who finances those settlements as Ambassador. His administration slashed aid to Palestine (including assistance to hospitals), and they explicitly legitimized Israeli annexation of the Golan Heights and the West Bank by saying the US will no longer consider them illegal. Do they really think that dude would handle the war *better* for the Palestinians? Hell, he might have the US join in on the bombing. That's more likely than him putting any pressure on Israel to stop.
I’m convinced there is a targeted mutually beneficial (not necessarily coordinated) Chinese/Russian/Trump social media astroturfing campaign going on that is banking on making Gaza a losing issue for Biden no matter what even though he’s being forced in reality to navigate supporting a regional ally, preserving human rights and dignity, and preventing world war 3. And in my estimation, he and his team are doing it better than anyone could, but it’s so easy to forget the pragmatic big picture of complicated, chaotic reality.
This basically what has happened. Russia, Iran and other extremist groups realized a long time ago that they could launder extreme ideas and division into the US through certain segments of academia.
And we know from the Mueller report Russia used social media to radicalize the extremes of both sides.
Netanyahu's probably riding it as well. I think Russia's the one who sent the cash to pull off the inciting incident, but all of them are throwing spare money to cripple the US / elect Trump.
The farther left than me seem to be madder at Biden than at Bibi and it confounds me.
Seriously. We know the bastard wants Trump back. And there's a big chunk of the left who seem to be broadcasting "we'll help you do that so long if you ignore Biden and make the occupation as shitty as possible." It's a painful irony.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Russia had something to do with the initial attack as well. A way to sow discord to put them in a better position for Ukraine.
Came to post just this. Always remember: qui bono (who benefits).
No this is so stupid. People are saying they don’t want to vote for a man doing not enough to prevent a genocide and actively giving arms to the oppressive force. The rates on civilian and child death are STAGGERING. No one is saying they’d rather Trump, they’re saying Joe has done a shit job with it and they don’t want to vote for the guy who promises a bit less genocide. It’s not exactly an appealing platform.
I don’t think it is fair to judge Biden on this issue. He isn’t the one that allocated aid to Israel. It was a 10 year package passed by congress and the Obama administration. Most of that money goes to a missile defense system. Biden has stepped in and halted arms aid to Israel for fear it would be used by extreme Israelis looking to expand settlements. The conflict hasn’t turned into a regional war which I thought it would. Iran has largely stayed out of it which I thought they wouldn’t. He has called for a cease fire. He has been working towards a cease fire plan. What exactly do you want him to do? Declare war on Israel? Anyone hating Biden over this issue at the risk of electing Trump is a fucking idiot. I’ve helped back saying that, but at this point it’s true, and they are being manipulated by social media campaigns from foreign adversaries trying to create divisions and chaos in the US
And next and next, that's how it always sounds. I vote for who I think I'd best, not because game theory I wish more did
It is amazing how many people believe they are immune to propaganda and then literally repeat Republican propaganda about Biden's age. "Biden hasn't done.." Shut up, the Biden administration has done shit tons. "Things were better under Trump..." Shut up, we had a fucking plague, almost went to war with Iran, had a bigoted government that attacked everyone but rich, white men, and effectively destroyed a gift wrapped economy from Obama.
100%
Yes, but's let's not fall prey to the 'publican playbook and split the democratic party votes.
I think the other part of this is that Biden has done well in a traditional way. The problem is lots of people think the bigger systems are broken and Biden doesn’t. So like, student loan forgiveness is good, but it doesn’t address the problem of college being so expensive. Obviously Trump is worse by every metric, but he is telling people what they already think, the world is broken. So I agree ignorant voters are a big part of the problem, I hate that the DNC doesn’t get more blame for favoring candidates who can’t seem to read the room on how pissed Americans are about how broken the world is. It was the same issue Hilary had, everyone was so shocked she lost, but it seemed pretty obvious to many she wasn’t reading the room on how angry people are about the state of the country.
> The problem is lots of people think the bigger systems are broken and Biden doesn’t. Agreed... > So like, student loan forgiveness is good, but it doesn’t address the problem of college being so expensive. ... but this is a bad example. Biden is hyping loan forgiveness because he can do some of it on his own, and he might convince Congress to allow more, because both sides know it's an easy way to buy votes. Any kind of real solution for the cost of education would have to be driven by Congress, and that's outside the realm of possibility for the foreseeable future.
Of course, big systemic change is hard, probably impossible in this Congress. It is about how you communicate though. Like if Biden was talking about how the system was broken and he was doing what he could while trying and failing to make bigger changes that would be enough. Sadly, being a candidate is a very different skill set than being a president.
This is what I can’t wrap my head around. “He’s old!” I don’t give a flying fuck, dude has crushed it. Even if he is old, he surrounds himself with competent people who have done a great job. Why wouldn’t I be excited to vote for him again? If they have to weekend at Bernie’s him for the next four years, I don’t care.
That's one thing but actual changes? Nothing special in my opinion. Politics can not just be make a change and revert it forever like a game
I’m sorry, but I completely disagree with this take. I voted for Biden and I will again, but what he has accomplished could have been accomplished by a myriad of other democrats. There are plenty of democrats out there who could run in the same or similar platform and achieved the same levels of success with them while eliminating a lot of what the right wing propaganda machine has been successful in casting doubt around Biden.
You fail to realize that the far right puts energy to cast doubt BECAUSE he is the leader when these good things happened. Are you so daft to think that if someone other than Biden were president that they republicans wouldn't be doing the same exact doubt-casting on that person? Or you think they'd still be going after Biden instead of this hypothetical POTUS? And don't say "they other person would have no baggage." The republicans will INVENT BS-made-up baggage for anyone. They mocked a woman for dancing while in college FFS.
who thought there was an alternative? 🤔
I am fine with Biden but at the same it’s kind of scary there doesn’t appear to be anyone warming up in the bullpen.
>it’s kind of scary there doesn’t appear to be anyone warming up in the bullpen What in the world? The Democrats have an insanely strong bullpen and it's bonkers they're wasting. Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker have all been successful governors of important states. They're in their prime and one ought to be the nominee. Newsom basically single handedly ended Ron DeSantis' campaign but debating him. You also have some decent Senators and House personalities. They all say this one out but one will absolutely be the nominee in 2028. Biden looks old next to Trump to many people. I get it. Democrats should be running someone like Newsom who would makes Trump look positively ancient and who can run rhetorical circles him with no stutter or mannerisms that could be mistaken for advanced age. Anyway, sorry but I think you're dead wrong. The Democrats have the best bullpen they've had in years and are squandering it.
If you run against an incumbent president and lose your career is probably fucked. Those governors are all smart enough to know that.
So then biden shouldn't be running
This is the part people are having trouble understanding. Biden had the ability, hell responsibility, to firmly be a one-term president and cycle in some new blood. If the Democrats have as “deep of a bullpen” as they claim, it would’ve been by far the smartest thing to do. No Democrat under 40 wants to vote for either old guy in the race. DNC is just terrified that Newsome would’ve gotten slaughtered by Trump… because he would’ve. There’s nobody behind Gavin that has any chance of winning right now. The problem is that Biden is gonna RBG himself and leave the Dems stranded with no backup plan.
I don't think that's true, Biden ran multiple times (and got his ass handed to him most of them) before finally winning the nomination in 2020.
Biden didn't run against an incumbent from his own party. That's what they meant not run and lose a primary.
All of those people 100% would have beaten Biden in a primary, but clearly the party has been immensely effective in preventing any kind of serious internal challenge. I don’t think people are realizing how deeply unpopular Biden is with everyone but online liberals. I genuinely think he is the only person that Trump can possibly beat in a general election.
Yeah the 2028 presidential roster looks pretty great with the three you named. Now, if the DNC tries to force Kamala down our throat I may be done voting in presidential elections for good until the DNC is turned over inside and out. Down ballot only
If there's an election in 2028
>Newsom, Whitmer, and Pritzker Corrupt, corporate and billionaire. No, no and no The absolute strongest candidate is Tim Walsh, the Minnesota governor. He's an old white guy from the midwest that makes regular people feel safe and then he's progressive with no corporate interests. But he'll never be the candidate because he's not corrupt, corporate or a billionaire.
Newsom, Whitaker and Pritzker would have been great options if there was an actual primary. The time for them to replace Biden was in 2022. It might have been a different case any of them had participated in the 2020 democratic primaries or if one of the candidates from the 2020 primaries was part of this strong bullpen. At this point they just don’t have the national name recognition to replace Biden. There’s also a chance of upsetting the base if one of them were to become the nominee without a primary. The only realistic option is Kamala Harris who is likely a much weaker candidate than Joe Biden.
There was never going to be a 2024 primary. The incumbency advantage is massive and giving it up would be crazy.
Let's get past 2024 before worrying about that.
Trump running is Biden‘s best chance at reelection. On the flipside Biden running for reelection is Trump‘s best chance for reelection.
Wow. 2 candidates so bad they can only beat each other. There’s a parable somewhere in there
Yeah feel like these 2 only have a chance to beat the other and any other candidate in either party would make the election a cake walk.
This is a weird thing to say given that there ARE other candidates in the Dem primary who aren't getting more than 2-3% of the vote. >any other candidate in either party would make the election a cake walk.
The issue is both of them are way too old.
Y'all are so fucked
Is he though? I mean I realize that’s what we’re getting but that statement is utter bs.
Let me tell you how awful this is. I have voted in every election since 18-year-olds were given the vote. So my first presidential election was in 1972. Yeah, do the math…I’m a boomer. The choice was Nixon or McGovern. I worked on McGovern’s campaign. We knew he didn’t have a chance in hell (borne out by the results), but I voted for him. Since that time, there have been times when I seriously asked myself, “Why can’t I have a legitimate 3rd party candidate?” So I worked for and voted for John Anderson against Ronald Reagan. All these years later, I am given the choice of a psychopath, or a really nice guy who, a least, has foreign policy experience, and would have a fairly consistent cabinet so we don’t get annexed by Russia. (I kid.) Imagine my discomfort in voting for another aging white man who has some chops, or throwing my vote away on a 3rd party candidate. For God’s sake, give me a choice I can live with!
Yeah, Biden is not a perfect candidate. But if you were with McGovern back then, you probably instantly saw what Trump was all about when he decided to take Putins lead and go into politics. But just look at the results, personality-wise but also in terms of pushing a sane progressive agenda: Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush (CIA/New World Order), Bush (Village Idiot), Trump or (McGovern), Carter, Clinton, Obama, Biden As bad as it may seem, it still seems pretty obvious to me. Avoid fascists and WW3 gamesters. For Indies, who have we had? George Wallace, Ross Perot, Jon Anderson (wtf?), Ralph 'The Loner' Nader, Jill 'The idiot' Stein? Marianne Willismason is the best of them all but you know she does not have a chance, and so does she! I like, and have met and talked with Cornel West. I've also met and interviewed Nader, and kayaked with Jill. But none of them were perfect either, and all had obvious (to me in the flesh) flaws. Trump, otoh, is a polished rich fuck who manipulates and poses. Man, the choice is obvious. ///Edit: I also interviewed Jesse Jackson during the 1996 campaign, and he was by far the best in terms of presence and policy, but he was a pre-Obama black candidate. Too bad, he would have made a great POTUS.///
3rd straight potus election of 'vote blue no matter who' / 'lesser of two evils'.
From over the Atlantic it certainly looks like the only reason that works is because the other side is also "vote red no matter what" / "lesser of two evils". If the American system can't get itself out of the political gridlock it is in I'm fearing for the oldest democracy on this planet. "If the others would just lose all power we could fix everything" won't work. Presidents governing mostly through humongous yearly budget bills and EOs is inching closer toward a future were one of them will have popular support to "just do away with congress. All they do is posturing, soundbites and meaningless grandstanding". And even if that guy is "on your side" there will be a successor/heir/knife in the back and all bets are off at that point.
Imagine if Clinton had appointed those 3 justices instead of Barrett, Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch. That alone would have put our country light years ahead of where we are. Don't know what I mean? Ask.
The last time I checked Biden does not even have an issues page on his website.
Hes absolutely NOT our best bet. Hes just the only option we are being given
The issue was nominating an 81 year old for reelection knowing that his vulnerabilities would be exposed.
It shouldn’t even be this close…
It’s the 2016 GOP playbook all over again
It's absolute MADNESS that it's gotten this far. Biden would win with over 90% of the vote in a sane society.
Autocrats are popular. They always have been. Democrats and people who care about democracy should be very aware that Trump has a very strong chance at winning again in November. Biden is apparently polling below Trump in a lot of battleground states and overall.
>Biden is apparently polling below Trump in a lot of battleground states and overall. Looking into those polls is not favorable to the integrity of those polls. >There are problems with the NYT poll - It has Trump winning both Hispanics and women - an impossibility. It’s likely voter electorate is +3 Republican - something we haven’t seen in a general election in actual voting in 20 years, and only once in the last 8 Presidential elections going all the way back to 1992. In the last 4 Presidential elections, Democrats have averaged 51%, Republicans 46%, and we gained ground in the 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023 elections. After all these years of strong Democratic vote performance for the electorate to become +3 Republican this year is, um, unlikely. Overestimating their intensity and strength and underestimating ours was a central reason so many saw the red wave that never came in 2022. https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas
In addition to this, the Republicans are having something approaching a primary, which means that they're on people's minds and putting out ads. The Democrats haven't started putting out ads yet, and won't until closer to the election.
You guys had 4 years to come up with something new and yet here we are again
This is drivel. You can’t compare the polling numbers of relatively unknowns to Trump. Newsom, Whitimer, really anyone other than Biden or Harris would destroy Trump in a general election. They just need the party machine behind them. Biden has had the party machine behind him for years and has come up short. I’m so disgusted by this horrible uninspiring party. No fight, no ideas, no spine. We are sleepwalking into another Trump term.
This is dems pulling a Hillary all over again. God help us if anti Trump sentiment isn’t enough to elect him…
If he is our best bet, and there is literally no one better that can run for president in the democratic party, America is royally fucked. I'm voting for him because Trump is so much worse. But there are definitely better options.
It’s fine. It’s totally fine. GUYS ITS FINE!!!!
This is delusional. The idea that there is not a better, younger candidate that can easily beat Trump is just willful ignorance.
Boy, which octogenarian genocide supporter should I pick!??
This thread is incredible. I’m going to support the D candidate no matter what facts lie before me about his declining mental acumen, but can’t understand, under any circumstance, why the other side does the exact same for their candidate’s obvious shortfalls in character. Weekend at Biden vs a crook. But it’s easier to point the finger at others than at the mirror.
Not even remotely. Any other decent Democrat would do better.
\-Because we're not going to let anyone else run." Don't get me wrong. I understand the assignment even if I don't like it, but damn do I wish we actually had a democracy in this country. Wouldn't it be lovely if people who were closer to fifty than a hundred were at least allowed to make an attempt at presidency?
Objectively wrong given that generic democrats poll higher than biden in the 2024 election. He is currently not the best bet for 2024 if you are speaking on winning and who best appeals to a democratic base. If you got someone younger with more charisma and better at campaigning how can you say "the best bet."
Says the DNC🙄
You’re going to get downvoted into oblivion. The Democrats should’ve positioned a progressive. They would’ve won by an absolute landslide against Trump.
Dnc doesn't want a progressive. Not good for their corporate benefactors.
Yep. You’re correct.
We have 300 + million people in this country and two grandpas who can't get out of bed on their own basically need to become next president. What a sad reality. I am 32 so I can't run for president, but there is no one over age 45 who are better equipped than those two grandpas?? 🤦🏻♂️
The minimum requirement is actually 35
This is a failure of the parties, not an achievement of Biden or Trump.
Republican politicians seem to be afraid of their base. While Democrat politicians seem to believe they can ram whoever they want down their base's throats and it's all going to be peachy. Just an observation.
And who is actually the democrat competitor?
Any generic democrat does better than Biden. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/06/an-ominous-poll-democrats-what-it-says-about-biden-alternative/
And he's going to lose. Just like the hubris of RBG gave us the most durable hard right political SCOTUS in decades, the hubris of Joe Biden is going to give us President Trump *again*. I'm sure Gavin Newsom is pretty stoked about it, though, because after four more years of Trump he's going to be in a really great position to run for POTUS in 2028.
Always has been. He beat Trump once, if enough people vote he can do it again. And anyone saying he hasn't done enough, is [ignoring his record of accomplishments](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/) or cherry-picking specific things to be outraged about while ignoring other data.
I mean. That's sad. The dude is too old. He's done an alright job, good even. But Jon Stewart really hit the nail on the head (as usual). Like... we dont have anyone better? Really?
For me its not so much Biden but the people he has put in charge that are all working together to do great things for the country. Unlike Trump who brings in the uneducated, the unqualified and even worse, family members to help run the country.
Polls say any generic democrat would do better against Trump. It’s ridiculous that Democrats are risking our democracy on a guy who’s aiding a genocide and should be in a nursing home.
facts
An alternative to Biden was never an option unless he withdrew, as we all initially expected would eventually happen. But he never did, we never got the choice, and now it’s too late. He was going to be a bridge to the deep bench of younger Dems. But no.
Do you think some of that was to avoid endorsing Kamala? I would have liked to have seen an open primary
Own fault again for choosing kamala
How do we know, democrats didn’t give us any options. If we’re going to continue with this system of voting “lesser of two evils” or not given an alternative to vote for then why vote anymore. This will be his coast term and likely will maintain the status quo so I’m out until there’s an alternative I can consciously vote for without having reservations
The NY times published a poll today showing Biden is losing by 5 points to Trump! Dems are gonna sleepwalk into a second Trump Presidency by shouting at their voters that they know best instead of actually listening to them and taking action. These are the same folks who pushed Bernie out. The Democratic party doesn’t listen to their own voters. “Vote blue no matter who” is an anti democratic mentality that disenfranchises regular voters. Every election they know better than us. Doesn’t seem very democratic to me.
The NYT poll is bad and they should feel bad. You should ALWAYS look below the surface numbers. There's plenty of hard work to do for the next \~7 months, but Dems are in an extremely strong position, actually. >There are problems with the NYT poll - It has Trump winning both Hispanics and women - an impossibility. It’s likely voter electorate is +3 Republican - something we haven’t seen in a general election in actual voting in 20 years, and only once in the last 8 Presidential elections going all the way back to 1992. In the last 4 Presidential elections, Democrats have averaged 51%, Republicans 46%, and we gained ground in the 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2023 elections. After all these years of strong Democratic vote performance for the electorate to become +3 Republican this year is, um, unlikely. Overestimating their intensity and strength and underestimating ours was a central reason so many saw the red wave that never came in 2022. [https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas](https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/can-you-make-calls-for-rudy-salas) \>These are the same folks who pushed Bernie out. Bernie was pushed out by primary voters in the south. Period. I voted for Bernie twice in the primaries because I supported his ideas about health care and unions and other things, but he never had any appeal to black women, who are the most important part of the democratic base. White, privileged progressives seem to never want to understand this fact. You can cite all the conspiracy nonsense about Wasserman-Schultz or whatever you want, but Hillary won the primary because she appealed to the democratic base more, and the DNC knew that from the beginning. They actually had/have the data. "vote blue no matter who" is an attempt to combat the Republican trashing of our judicial system. SCOTUS control in the hands of the Federalist Society has absolutely ransacked our country's attempt to reform itself after the fall of Jim Crow in the 60s and the establishment of the Voting Rights Act. Before that we were basically a whites only club. Out actual multicultural society is only \~60-70 years old in practice, and it's being beaten down by right wing backlash. It's extremely short sighted to not band together and fight back.
"That said, there’s another point worth noting up front: Joe Biden is almost certainly the strongest possible candidate Democrats can field against Donald Trump in 2024." Are you fucking kidding me? And 81 year old with a 36% approval rating?
This thread is literally nothing but straw man arguments. Glad to see r/politics has a super diverse following.
Did the DNC write this?
Biden being the “best option” is pretty sad.
Is he *really*, or is he just the only horse they’ll let us run in this race?
Wish there was a younger choice
How fucking sad is the state of American politics that the two presumptive nominees are each party’s best shot and best candidate. JFC. 350,000,000 people and these two jokers are the best we can do?
Echo chamber… never mind he’s the most unpopular incumbent ever and all his poll numbers sucked since day 1. I’m pissed at him for not retiring and letting strong younger qualified candidates run instead of making it a Russian roulette election. Coalition is no more, from blacks to Hispanics to Muslim Americans all their leaders are sounding alarms. This what Trump does to people they hate him so much they keep focusing on that and ignore the important stuff and he ends up leading the narrative. No Biden/Harris is not the best ticket against Trump, let’s admit that and try to get the coalition back and pray for democracy and I’m not even a fricken religious guy
He is at this point because it's too late to change. But if you look at what Dems have won with in the past, they almost always win when they pick a young (for the job) candidate who has a hopeful outlook. JFK, Clinton, Obama, even Carter in 76. So who is that now? I'd contend they'd win with Whitmer. But it's too late to change.
There was never going to be a chance. Incumbency is too strong an advantage to give up. Biden is doing a great job in 1000 ways and will continue to do so. The "bench" is strong and 2028 should be excellent. Newsom, Whitmer, Buttigieg...probably others...
The DNC hasn't let anyone else come forward either.
The DNC does the worst possible thing, every time. They are killing the left almost as badly as Trump is killing the right.
Go figure. Couldn’t have anything to do with the Dems not running a proper primary race and the leadership propping him up at any cost.
Yeah, only because it's to late to sack him. Edit: I'm being downvoted for saying an 81 year old man that mixes words up and stutters has people who'd be better candidates than him.
He was never going to be sacked. There was never another candidate. This weirdo swap out is so alternate reality that it would make maga people blush. **If** there were to be a real challenge to Biden they would have announced early last year. And since that didn't happen we knew it was going to be him.
I disagree. All recent polling showing an ultra close race, or Trump slightly ahead. Biden is being selfish by not stepping aside.
That’s why Trump will win again
And the Green Party will be blamed again.
Seriously?
*"It places the vote for Biden in the box, or else it gets the Trump again."*
That's not what the polls say, but sure.
his name is old. people dont have to think about Biden at all they know what they got. Even if he's barely there. Some new guy isnt gonna have that. If he win's they should let hiim retire if he want to. Say medical causes or something
but it's not a safe bet.
Nah I'm good
Ew
Would we expect a different opinion piece from the Atlantic?
I would vote for an inanimate carbon rod over Trump.
Biden is a decent man, achieved many good things during his first term, he even improved the economy, at least that what's the elites are selling us by holding up all those rosy charts and graphs. And yet, Biden is certain to lose to Trump on November 5th. Wake up Dem's -- Biden is LOSING! It is extremely clear to non-partisan voters that he is unable to campaign successfully against Trump, and it is clear to non-partisan voters that he will be unable to hold the office for another four years. It is URGENT that he step aside now, otherwise on November 5th the sociopathic autocrat returns to lay siege against the fundamental foundations of this country. And when that happens, should you have clung to this false Biden fever-dream to the very end, then you'll have only yourselves to blame.
The Presidency is looking more and more like a lost cause. The Democrats should focus their energies on the Senate and House races.
That’s not what the polls say.
Lose / Lose for America. You guys need better candidates. Come to think of it, most of the world’s governments need better candidates.
And his administration is full of young people, smart people, and not-insane people.
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Biden isn't making me nervous.... those libs who don't see the immense danger of the alternative are incredibly nerve wracking for me!!! Biden we can deal with. Trump we will die with.
Republicans win by tricking Democrats into focusing on Biden's imperfections, while totally ignoring the obvious fact that Trump is almost pure evil. Biden remains America's best available choice.