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>Project 2025 makes it clear: The plan is a national abortion ban, even if by executive order
Remember when anti-abortion types all pinky swore that once Roe was overturned they would be happy just letting the states decide the issue as a matter of state rights? They were lying . . . surprise surprise surprise . . .
And remember before that, when each of the Republican-appointed prospective judges swore to the Senate that they respected Roe v. Wade as binding precedent?
This right here. We shouldn't be in a scenario where the prospective "judges" can say the constitution clearly state Roe v Wade is constitutional and then within a year later overturn it. The constitution shouldn't change in the eyes of a supreme court member, especially within a year time span. This should have been terms for removal of office if American's were actually smart.
Instead we get clowns like Amy Coney Barrett who changed her Roe v Wade stance within a year, the same woman who is famously apart of the group who believes women were created by god to serve and pleasure men and should devote themselves to men and literally advocated for this in a speech given to a group of elite rich donors, and she's the one deciding women's rights. No wonder a group of power hungry men voted her in.
This. It was the most abhorrent lie, I can remember, from a sworn witness when Brett Kavanaugh said, "It is settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court, entitled the respect under principles of stare decisis," he said. "The Supreme Court ***has recognized the right to abortion*** since the 1973 *Roe v. Wade* case. It has reaffirmed it many times." At that point in time you could say I was more middle of the road--like split ticket type voter. That lie in particular pushed me over the edge. I will never vote for a Republican again.
I have taken nothing the Republicans say as true since they overturned Roe V. Wade . They cannot be trusted and they almost always lie.
Further reading if you are interested:
[https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings)
Edit: Emphasis my own.
They lawyer’d their way out of it. They implied, but they didn’t say outright.
We knew they would kill it at the first opportunity, they knew we knew, and that we couldn’t stop them. They gave courtesy sound bites so it could seem like Dems actually had a say in the matter, but they didn’t. Not enough asses in seats to stop the process the way The GOP did
I spent a few years in sub-Saharan Africa with the Peace Corps. I distinctly remember a time when I was at our community creche (preschool) and I was sitting on the ground with girl that must have been about 5 or 6 years old. She and I were were talking about something silly while she proceeded to draw this awesome little field filled with goats and cows happily running around.
Despite having spent very little time drawing before and being 6 years old her little art piece was really good. She was clearly enthusiastic, having fun and focused on what she was doing.
Her Aunt walked in to pick her up from the Creche, took one look at the drawing, crumpled it up and dropped it on the ground.
When I asked her why she did that she looked at me like I was a crazy person and said "Girls can't draw."
Seeing generations of conditioning teaching women to hold other women back expressed in a single moment was really disheartening.
There is a good video interview by Jordan Kepler of women who are Trump supporters in 2016 were a bunch of them are adamant that we can't allow a woman to become president because with her hormones she is going to start a new war every month....
They are also adamant about gays not being allowed to marry because asking for the same rights as the normal people is too much and they haven't earned it.
It's one of those interviews that stays with me, the same as the one were a Trump supporter insist twice that people shouldn't be sheeps and should read the transcript of the perfect call of donald trump to zelensky but he doesn't need to, he heard what some commentators said about it and that's enough for him.
But remember, don't be a sheep, read the transcript !
Right? Feels weird to think one day my body will legally belong to them. But then, maybe that's already the case somehow. I personally don't think you can have freedom without the right to oneself but I understand a lot of our fellow "patriots" don't enjoy freedom lol.
Anyone who was raised by Evangelical Christian parents knew this way ahead of the Trump Administration.
They believe abortion is literal murder. Why would they stop at state lines?
Interesting to me because South Carolina was floating the idea of the death penalty for women who get one. Yet they let a man who annihilated his entire family save one child off of the death penalty.
worthless special shocking squeeze grandfather cooing quarrelsome exultant pot pathetic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It doesn't.
The underlying objective is not to simply punish but to control. That's what ties it together with the general authoritarianism of the political movement. It's about feeling better / more worthy than others.
Yeah, I’ve heard that too. The rationale is that women choose to have sex and the fetus didn’t choose and as such the life of the fetus takes precedence. Even when pushed to include all women in this they still say the fetus takes precedent. It’s a sin thing. The woman by definition committed sin, but the fetus has not.
Then gay marriage, then birth control, then science, they have showed us what they want. Just imagine as dystopian as Project 2025 is, what would Project 2029 be if they win?
I posit this for Project 2029: "Anything deemed by the High Council as Demonic, will be destroyed with the full force and fury of the state."
The majority of these voters genuinely don’t even want to live in this shitty society. Every time these people actually get what they want, there is mass buyer’s remorse almost immediately.
It’s like they get so caught up in owning the libs that they cut off their own nose before realizing what they are doing.
No? Like, I have legit no clue who anyone was listening to if they thought that was their goal. That was more like a reluctant compromise some of them accepted if they couldn't do any better than that.
Funny thing is even by executive orders, state Constitution's supercede those. It's why even though gay marriage is a constitutional right, multiple states STILL refuse to accept them.
77% of Republicans support the death penalty.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/404975/steady-americans-support-death-penalty-murderers.aspx
Here's another poll that found the level at 80% of Republicans who support the death penalty.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/public-opinion-polls/political-affiliation-and-the-death-penalty
86% of GOP primary voters said they’d be more likely to vote for a candidate who sent military troops to defend the Southern border.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-sending-troops-us-mexico-border-popular-gop-policy-planks-are-str-rcna91245
What do you imagine that those GOP primary voters think the military's going to do there...? They want them to treat this like a wartime invasion. They want refugees and asylum seekers to be killed. Including, presumably, pregnant women and their children.
The OVERWHELMING majority of Republican voters are hypocrites when it comes to the death penalty and abortion. Don't brush it away as "just some of them."
That's the piece that the left refuses to acknowledge. These people will *never* operate in good faith. They'll say and do whatever they need to in order to get what they want. Everyone besides them is an enemy to be outmaneuvered, outwitted, or crushed. We need to get down in the gutter and start brawling if we want to break their kneecaps.
Project 25 is just straight propaganda. There is no serious evidence that supports the idea of Trump's administration pushing the bill. The administration literally announced themselves that they had nothing to do with project 2025. Trumps most recent abortion stance has been to leave it in the hands of states.
and its funny to me that "let the states decide" is supposed to pacify people. Like "we will take away your rights but only in 1/2 of the country" is supposed to be okay
They just believe whatever they want to, don't they? Guess things like history and statistical likelihood couldn't shake them from their "heads up their own ass" levels of stupidity?
That’s the beauty of religion. They can form any option, especially wrong or immoral ones, and blame religion for
The reason they believe something that goes against morality and empathy….
I mean, 1/3rd of Jesus' ministry was, "Will you stop using religion to justify everything."
It's the refuge of any asshole who wants to claim he can't be questioned for his assholery.
>Evangelicals won't be bothered by Trump's abortion gambit — they saw his mouth move, so they know he's lying, and they aren't upset, mainly because they owe their own existence to the same behaviour
FTFY
Correct. They see in Trump a flaw that that no other president has had to date. He is a transactional person who has no boundries. He has no qualms about selling his office, the country, the constitution, or anything for that matter, as long as it benefits him in some way. Oaths mean nothing to him. Heck, even loyalty to him means nothing.
So they pinch their nose and strike a deal. You stuff the courts with the Christian right-wing extremist we chose for you, and we will deliver you our votes and money. Other than that, you can do and say whatever you wish.
Simple as that.
I’ve been reading in various news outlets of Biden gaining evangelical voters as some are turning away from Trump. They object to mixing religion with politics. It’s still a small minority.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-losing-white-evangelicals-joe-biden-1876228
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/one-evangelical-pastor-left-radicalized-post-jan-6-america-rcna14869
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScbvRNRgAcUo1UfZfxuBZHmv63FI8k2gnxxAaNVlCvsiG9xHw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0
Sadly, the American Taliban are just as bad. They to are more than willing to destroy the nation to achieve their goal of a White Nationalist Theorcracy. Too many of their followers are just going along with what they say.
This is true to a degree yes. It definitely is a small minority but I have personally met some of these people. The common agreement amongst them were that they felt it was scary to see how cult-like Trump supporters are and felt like they were worshiping a false idol. Things like selling a bible coincidentally when he needed money were also turn offs, not because of the obvious money-making scheme but just how terrified they were seeing how many Trump supporters were dumb enough to latch onto it like this was a work of god himself. In a sense its primarily due to the extreme devotion of his supporters than anything Trump himself did that have turned away these extremely devoted christians that I have ran into.
Unfortunately, not all christians have been smart enough to figure out Trump is just enabling cult behavior cause Trump worship is what matters most to him
Jan. 6 turned off a number of both evangelicals and what some call Reagan-era Republicans who were horrified and appalled by the Jan. 6 Capitol riot/insurrection. There are groups including GOP strategists who are anti-Trump who are working to get these people to openly discuss their views (as testimonials) and why they turned against Trump and will broadcast those testimonials on social media and other sites in hopes of turning other conservative voters against him as well.
They see in Trump a man that uses Christianity the way they do: as a prop.
The men want to adultery, blow up brown people, and enrich themselves. They just want to be considered Godly doing so.
Writer here! Just want to say I agree, with one tweak: They aren't pinching their nose. They looooooove Trump. His shamelessness is permission for them, to abandon the pretense that they ever cared about morality. It's just all about power.
Ironically, the transactional nature of Trump would also mean that pressure from big pharma to keep sales of contraceptives, day-after pills, etc. going could pave a difficult path for the evangelicals, and their grand plans of banning such things.
It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and no way in hell will the pharma industry just say *"Ok, guess we'll just quit selling those then"* because a small fringe movement says so.
They'll lobby the hell out of DC, and they'll sue.
They plan to use the courts to get these banned. That is why they need to stuff their judges in there. Once in place, they will be almost impossible to remove.
God lies a bunch in the Bible. Tricks people and sends tests just to “gotcha”. They’ve been CINOs since Year 1AD, because it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
There's no contradiction there though: god can lie as much as he wants but humans are forbidden to do so. There is no presumption of equality there, just a moral hierarchy with the deity at the top. The relationship is at best patriarchal, at worst overtly despotic depending on what is fashionable with the target audience. This is basically why religion has very little to say about morality, just as it has nothing to contribute to explaining the natural world. The idea of a deity as portrayed by them is a moral and logical paradox. Every moral or natural question in such a system becomes a tautology ("because god says so", "because god made it that way", ...).
It's hardly a surprise when people extend this principle further, where it becomes morally right to cheat, lie and sometimes kill for what they see as god's plan. They define themselves as good (or at least more worthy) by definition because of their faith (i.e. their relationship with god, who defines what is moral), and their opponents as evil by that same definition, to the extend that they convince themselves the end justifies the means. This is a typical case of bad faith, where they use the idea of divine sanction or a divine plan to imagine themselves as anything but human beings free to make moral choices.
> There is no presumption of equality there, just a moral hierarchy with the deity at the top. The relationship is at best patriarchal, at worst overtly despotic depending on what is fashionable with the target audience. This is basically why religion has very little to say about morality, just as it has nothing to contribute to explaining the natural world. The idea of a deity as portrayed by them is a moral and logical paradox. Every moral or natural question in such a system becomes a tautology ("because god says so", "because god made it that way", ...).
Yes, when you portray morality as following God, and immorality as not following God, Then it's not about what is right and wrong, but on doing whatever the more powerful person wants. Christians don't help widows and orphans because helping widows and orphans is the right thing to do, they help widows and orphans because The Big Guy told them to do so. If tomorrow The Big Guy told them to beat up widows and orphans, then they would do so and see no moral contradiction, because there is no moral contradiction between "I'm just following orders".
This also explains why they're so liable to fall for cult leaders. If a Cult leader presents himself as powerful like The Big Guy, than he can speak for The Big Guy, or even replace him.
Indeed. To be fair, that's why most religious people pick and choose which rules they follow and which they don't, which parts of god they believe in and what parts they don't. They simply create god and religion in their own image (rather than vice versa) and, specifically, their own morality. The big problem with this is that they then have to twist themselves into knots to justify this as the revelatory texts and associated dogmas, all of whom contain grossly immoral precepts, are supposed to be universal and unchangeable truths.
This then puts them at a disadvantage to fundamentalists (who do define absolute morality as doing whatever god supposedly wants). The moderates have to believe that somehow god saw fit give his message to mankind through a mess of contradictions, metaphors, context that has long since disappeared, ... Ultimately, god can not be reconciled with a morality centered on the human experience, because an all good, omnipotent, omniscient deity is an obvious logical paradox (Epicurus' paradox of evil has never been answered IMHO). It's much easier for the zealots who absolve themselves of the moral complexities of their choices by pretending god chose for them and that this makes anything they do right and moral.
> This also explains why they're so liable to fall for cult leaders.
Exactly. Pretending that you don't make your own choices is the classic example of bad faith, and it doesn't really matter whether it's the leader or the deity who supposedly calls the shots. Since the latter doesn't exist and therefore doesn't speak, it's almost always a variation of the former. The authority this lends them and that their followers want to justify their actions is the same either way.
Yo it's me God-- things y'all want to know about me... I'm a little jelly, so my first four BIG BIG rules are:
1. I'm the coolest.
2. I better not find pictures of other girls on your phone.
3. Don't talk shit about me, ever.
4. I get a special day every week, and y'all should have a party. Now, don't expect me to show up, but it better be lit and I better not catch any of y'all sleeping in.
You break any of my rules, the penalty is TORTURE FOREVER, kapish? Anyway, hit my Venmo to stay on my good side.
It definitely doesn't help that deities as depicted in various revelatory texts are at best tricksters, at worst commit or plan evil deeds.
It's weird that this is somehow the concept to anchor morality to, especially as there are fairly devastating logical and philosophical arguments against the existence of a moral deity, even without the less than edifying examples depicted in various texts.
It's not weird, it's the point. Religion primarily serves to control people by stopping thought on social and moral issues. Replacing problematic thought with arbitrarily accepted dogma and social truth helps create a mush less thinking, less ambitious and more controllable population. People who think are much more likely to be dissatisfied with the status quo. A status quo that demands conformance to seemingly arbitrary modes of behavior. Behaviors that only benefit those higher in the hierarchy in anticipation of some ill defined divine reward after death. By positioning morality as both the single factor for determining divine judgement, and something that cannot possibly be understood by people, we position the Church as the sole unquestionable authority on allowed behavior. Marry the Church to the Government and you can control all aspects of human life via social influence, effectively implementing social discipline via the religious mob. This removes all social and moral responsibility from both the population and the Government while letting the Church decide which way the moral compass points. Crusades anyone?
It is interesting that duality- this is a question in Sharia law that illustrates the paradox:
In this context, the formulation of the Sunni view can be summarized as follows; Human reason is a gift from God which should be exercised to its fullest capacity.[^(\[66\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHallaq200915-71) However, use of reason alone is insufficient [to distinguish right from wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjoining_good_and_forbidding_wrong), and rational argumentation must draw its content from the body of transcendental knowledge revealed in the Quran and through the sunnah of Muhammad.
From Wikipedia. It is sort of yes you have free will- but that ain't enough, you need magic also.
Similar principles exist in Christian doctrine IIRC, and for the same purpose. Reason prompts us to reject belief when it is unfounded, and there is no proof of the supernatural or any specific deity. Therefore you have to limit reason to deliberately exclude this fundamental concept, and by doing so you fatally undermine its utility.
> you need magic also.
I concur with this. The idea of a deity is inherently paradoxical and poses insurmountable moral and philosophical problems for any attempt at a rational or even humanist worldview. In this case the mystics were right: the various attempts to marry reason and religion were, in fact, pointless and dangerous to the foundations of their faith. It's just that they were also wrong about the existence of god.
This need for magic that can not be defined or supplied in rational terms does not signify that religions are special or transcend reason. It simply shows that their fundamental premise is wrong.
The thing about acceptance of this fundamental flaw is that we can use it to our benefit. If a group is given to agree on this paradox, we now open the door to endless interpretation, a constant force to manipulate and create innumerable in groups and out groups. It is an almost limitless source of energy, based solely on human frailty.
Yes, that is a possible use case. A less morally problematic one is that delusions can bring comfort to people. If it wasn't for the existence of the former, the latter would be fairly harmless. The problem is that it is mostly used as a tool for social control by existing hierarchies. This abortion thing is merely an exponent of the drive to subordinate women and control people's sexuality in general, all because they need to construct imaginary moral hierarchies where they can look down on the sinners as others look down on them in turn. It's the basic premise of reactionary thought, IMHO, which explains the political associations they've been making.
That also means they won't stop at this, because the entire point for everyone involved is to place themselves above everyone else. The goal is an endless series of concentric in-groups, although the very application of faith stops them from actually realizing or acknowledging that.
I think the most interesting literary read of the Old Testament is that God is just fucking sick of his people constantly doing the human sacrifice, idolatry, and sleeping with their children thing.
As Homer said, "I have become ashamed of my own creation. Now I know how God feels."
One view is this: Having happened long before the birth of Christ, The Old Testament is not Christian. It is included in the Bible as a counter to the New Testament. The old is how things were. The new is how things should be under Christ. God was vengeful and wrathful. Enemies were to be smote. God even flooded the Earth and killed everyone. The entire intent of Jesus' story was to change this view and present a loving caring God who should then be followed by loving caring people. Many Christians seem to have decided they like the old ways better.
That's extra hard on Old Testament god, though the above perspective is as old as the Gnostics. This is the god who said he would spare multiple cities of evil doers if they had but a single good person alive in them. People always point to Abraham And Isaac as a sign of what an asshole God is.
Never realizing that the ending of the story is, "You, out of every culture alive right now, should not commit human sacrifice."
I find it interesting that the current Christian Churches were formed by early Christians resolving their differences through mass murder, as with the Gnostics. What we have today appears to be the result of an evolutionary process where the most ruthless groups consistently rise to power. Evangelicals are just the latest to have this ambition.
Because for Christians, the end justifies the means.
Christianity is disgusting and vile. It’s a weapon - that’s what religions are. Imagine believing an immortal old man with super powers lives in the clouds 🙄
It's a cult of lies. I know it's supposed to be shocking but right wing "Christians" are all in on this cult and always have been. They are liars, traitors and hypocrites. Lies are their power. Cruelty is their love language.
It's sort of the cycle of abuse- as long as somebody else can go through the same pain I experienced, by the same system, than I made the right choice, pain is inevitable, and this system is unstoppable.
Agree. Nothing has more explicitly highlighted the fact that all evengelical fundamentalists want is power than their embrace of donald the rapist and adulterer. They couldn't care less. They will rationalize away his rape, his sexually assaulting women, his adultery, his gluttony, his tens of thousands of lies, his daily shitty and disgusting statements and tweets. None of it matters to to them, none of it. It's all about power and the ability to force their opinions on everyone. If a trump supporter, for the rest of their lives, every mentions morality, decency, ethics, family values or law and order laugh in their face.
There really is no gong back to normal. I can't take any Republican policies seriously anymore because at some point Donald Trump has contradicted every single one of them and Republicans did not care.
The mask is off and there is no putting it back on.
It's the mythical mandate play. They do this on the local and state level all the time when they do wildly extreme stuff- "I was sent here by the people- to ban books and roll back environmental regulations!"
This is the problem with the republican base; they will hear only what they want to hear.
Trump recognizes abortion is NOT a winning platform and costed them their red wave in 2022. This is why he is trying to pivot saying he supports a 15-max week abortion time frame but nothing on a national level and solely up for the states to decide. This is why he also keeps pointing out he himself is the sole reason Roe v Wade was overturned because he's trying to appeal to both religious conservatives and the younger/women voters who he was losing due to his abortion stance.
Evangelicals heard this as: "He's saying this because its politics! He doesn't actually mean it because he is trying to get elected and get voters from all sides so he can win. Once we have secured the presidency we can start pivoting to a national ban!"
First: You're admitting abortion bans aren't popular across the majority of America but you're likely the first to say "we the people" (a line I now despise because of conservatives who say this all the time but do the exact opposite of it). Secondly: You spent decades saying this was always a states right issue - but really you were a wolf in sheep's clothing as this was always the plan.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you say against them as they'll always believe this is morally justified as it's an act of god himself. Ironically, they are the very reason the founding fathers explicitly stated the separation of church and state. Any time you give government power over a religion, it will always be used for evil to enrich the same people abusing the religion. I would love to ask Marjorie Green Taylor one day what version of the christian god she wants the government to force on Americans because the one she worships wouldn't agree with the one I do and we're both supposedly "christians".
“Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.”
- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
To add for those who like all the context:
"It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive any thing more destructive to morality than this?'
https://www.ushistory.org/Paine/reason/reason1.htm
Exactly. They know he’s lying, but he’s not lying to *them*! He’s lying to the conservatives in the middle who *want* to vote for him, but are turned off by the potential of a national ban. He’s lying to convince “moderates” and he wont lose the Bible thumpers votes because they know he’s lying and a national ban is imminent if he wins.
In his little "My stance on abortion" video, he even added in the "We need to win elections" line, essentially telling everyone he's lying about supporting exceptions or leaving it up to the states. He's just saying it thinking it'll appease the moderates (it won't). You can't take longstanding rights away from people and then try to play the good guy by offering to give a tiny amount back. The people that are dumb enough to buy that shit are the ones who aren't even upset about the issue in the first place.
Christians happy because they know that their leader is lying just to get enough votes to be elected so that they can get what they want. Means to an end. Nevermind that lying is sinful.
>Revelation 21:8, "all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death".
They had Paul Ryan’s plan, which was to yank away health care for tens of millions. That’s honestly the best they can do because they don’t want to have any regulations that would make it easier to afford.
https://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539907467/senate-careens-toward-high-drama-midnight-health-care-vote
I think Trump's announcement was about as good as he could do for his strategy. Evangelicals and progressives know hes lying, the middle or those not paying too much attention won't be spooked by a national ban. I suspect he lost very few votes on the right and the price was no furthering hemmorage in the middle.
The entire Evangelical religion is performative. They do not really live by their own rules. Its all a lie. Their religion is a weapon they use against other, not how they really live their own lives. So, naturally, they do not give a rat's ass if "their people" lie. They are all lying all the time.
Saying you personally believe it's up to the states isn't the same as saying you'll veto a national abortion ban that makes it to your desk. Not that I would trust anything Trump says anyways.
Counterattack, force a legal argument on the definition of religion. A city could define non-affiliated religious events as entertainment ala Jesus Christ Superstar.
Then tax them.
Let them sue.
Make the Supreme Court define religion.
Then beat the bastards over the head with it.
Doesn't matter what the court says, once there's a ruling you can pound Kenneth Copeland and force him into court again and again.
Just a reminder that these and other religious people believe in magic. Magic. Let that sink in for a moment. I'm all for religious freedom but as soon as your religion interferes with other people's lives and they start wanting to arrest people with the backing of the Bible then they have to go. Can we just kick them out of America and send them to the Taliban? Pretty much identical except for the magic man they praise.
As do we all. It’s disheartening to hear all this coverage and handwringing by conservative commentators saying they’ll reluctantly stick with him regardless of his position.
He has no “position” other than stay out of jail and play golf while evangelicals and the Federalist Society run the house.
Yeah, the people that believe a guy floated a boat to Australia to pick up one male and female kangaroo and then returned it before the flood ended can't be fooled.
An entire campaign predicated on the notion that enough Americans are deeply idiotic, myopic, and unwilling to see reason if it doesn't align with their prejudices and petty bigotries.
If Trump wins again, America won't just be badly led, it will truly be lost and beyond any reasonable way to repair it.
I really wish that I could send this as an email to every damn anti-abortion imbecile in the USA:
It's painfully obvious that the white Christian Nationalists, Republicans, and white supremacists who are frightened by their 'replacement' theory boogeyman, haven't done any research, and haven't thought things through about banning abortion to supposedly increase the number of WHITE babies....
I'm not going to dive into all of the bigotry and prejudice that makes it much more difficult for black women and Hispanic women to be able to afford having children, but those factors are highly significant.
Data shows that 5 times MORE black women than white women seek out abortions, and TWICE as many Hispanic women as white women seek out abortions.
Removing access to free and low-cost contraceptives will also increase the number of minorities born, far above the birth rates of white women.
Due to this bizarre and brainless campaign to ban abortion (nationwide, eventually) and probably ban contraceptives too, **within less than 20 years minority voters will DEFINITELY outnumber whites**.
THEN the damn fool Republican politicians frak up in-vitro fertilization, making it TOO EXPENSIVE and legally complicated for all those WHITE WOMEN to get pregnant with white babies!
It's amazing how stupid those white Christian Nationalists and white supremacists are.
Adding this as a reply because the Reddit edit function mangles my entire comment:
What is the end game of these white Christian Nationalist fools? Total destruction of America? Are they so astoundingly dense to think that by destroying the planet that they claim 'god' gave to humanity, that they can force their god's hand and force "him" to bring on the "Rapture"?
Their arrogance and evil is worse than that of the bible's biggest bogeyman, 'Satan'!
Crime WILL rise if Roe v Wade isn't restored, because unwanted children are far more likely to grow up to be criminals. Trump and the white Christian Nationalists want the home-grown variety of criminals to overrun America, and then of course they'll blame the Democrats.🙄
Running a successful political campaign used to be about finding the sweet spot of issues and sides to take. For MAGA it is simply lie all the time. The people who want to believe the lie will choose to and the ones who don't will tell themselves it's a lie and be fine with it. How do you talk sense to that voting block? 😖
As long as he continues to cavort with prostitutes, mock the disabled, insult his opponents, denigrate immigrants, lie, cheat and steal, he’ll have a lock on the evangelical vote.
All they care about are the list of judges he’s using for SCOTUS and lower court nominees. To the Evangelicals, they know a president is a 4 year term subject to gridlock. But get them the right lifetime appointees in the courts and they control everything they seek to control.
Everybody knows he's lying. You don't get to appoint 3 supreme court justices specifically to torpedo Roe V Wade, which they did, and then suddenly act like a moderate.
A lot of trumps strategies are doublespeak, peace in isreal, healthcare for all, no abortion ban. The right is rarely bothered because of this exact reason. The in groups know what he stands for, it's the outgroups that get confused. And he only needs to pick off a few percent of the outgroups. Its also a ton harder to message that he is a liar than it is for him too offhandedly lie with the amount of coverage he gets for free. Its like fighting a wildfire with a garden hose.
Get used to Trump America, unless Millenials vote. And PS, its not the Mango man who I fear, its those that come after. THEY will be the ruthless monsters. Not the orange bufoon.
But, the Boomer's cocaine, weed and booze addled brains are repenting for past guilt will show up at the polls. Zombies will be led by their zombie king. They will lead the American Experiment to a gain-of-function lab on K-Street. Then, as we Gen X'ers start to retire... thats when the killing really starts.
Mark my words. 2028 = Year of War in the IndoPacific and Revolution at home... all confused and messy as fuck. You'll be for and against war... For and against revolution.
That was probably what Trump attempted. His goal is always to have it both ways. The trick is to create enough mud and chaos that enough people will see what they want. These political Rorschach tests doesn’t need to fully convince they just need to justify people to dismiss what they want to dismiss. It’s scary how it is effective.
Trump's abortion statement is like a hostage video made by a desperate man: "Save me, just get out there and vote for me, vote for Donald Trump, me me me me, just please vote for me and keep me out of jail." [https://factkeepers.com/were-you-waiting-with-bated-breath-for-trumps-big-announcement-on-abortion-plop-its-here/](https://factkeepers.com/were-you-waiting-with-bated-breath-for-trumps-big-announcement-on-abortion-plop-its-here/)
Quote from speech/ article: **He lied about the Democrats, “the radical ones because they support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month, and even execution after birth, and that’s exactly what it is. The baby is born, and the baby is executed after birth.”**
Over time I have learned that every "example" or specific logic Trump provides is always a lie, red meat for the base. When he says things like, "that's exactly what it is." get ready he is directly programing his cult with falsehoods. This signals them to repeat it and by repetition, create it as an alternate reality, no matter how outlandish and false.
We can commiserate about the education system, the propaganda machine ad nauseum as to the cause, but let us not absolve our MAGA neighbors of their willful ignorance, their choice at the root of all this. They know! They are manipulating us in bad faith, we must shun them and ignore them at this point for our own well being.
The only ones fooled by this are stupid “independent” voters who would have voted for him anyways. They’ll use this to justify their vote and then shrug if he wins and implements a national abortion ban.
Yeah, the only people this will impact are the so-called moderates, who seem to find every excuse to both-sides everything. *"Oh look, he's not that bad, he's not calling for a national ban!"* And then a year later, they'll go, *"But how could we have known he'd change his mind?!" :shocked-pikachu-face:*
Remember Susan Collins, anyone?
There’s no polite way to say it but evangelicals are simply very unintelligent people. They aren’t particularly interested in any ideology or ethics/morals.
Correct. Hes changed his position more than a vegas hooker and if he goes back to the white house he will hand off the reins to someone else (because hes there to enact revenge not to actually lead or help people.)
He had waffling stances on abortion last time and it resulted in Roe being overturned. Why change a winning strategy?
They also already know that he's an adulterous pornstar paying sexual abuser who is also a card, sneaker, and bible Hawker, who will go down as one of the greatest con artists in american political history and it doesnt matter
We need to show them that we the people are the real power here. Working is nearly obsolete since we can't afford to feed ourselves working 3 jobs, we may as well quit and march en-mass to the capital and show them that we will start with peaceful means but aren't afraid to stand up for ourselves!
Evangelical Christianity is basically the same as Trumpism - lies upon lies designed to suppress women and make oodles of tax-free money. Oh and something about Jesus…
It's not really about belief for them. They don't want the "other" so they vote against them with no care for who they are actually voting into power as long as it isn't the "other."
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>Project 2025 makes it clear: The plan is a national abortion ban, even if by executive order Remember when anti-abortion types all pinky swore that once Roe was overturned they would be happy just letting the states decide the issue as a matter of state rights? They were lying . . . surprise surprise surprise . . .
And remember before that, when each of the Republican-appointed prospective judges swore to the Senate that they respected Roe v. Wade as binding precedent?
This right here. We shouldn't be in a scenario where the prospective "judges" can say the constitution clearly state Roe v Wade is constitutional and then within a year later overturn it. The constitution shouldn't change in the eyes of a supreme court member, especially within a year time span. This should have been terms for removal of office if American's were actually smart. Instead we get clowns like Amy Coney Barrett who changed her Roe v Wade stance within a year, the same woman who is famously apart of the group who believes women were created by god to serve and pleasure men and should devote themselves to men and literally advocated for this in a speech given to a group of elite rich donors, and she's the one deciding women's rights. No wonder a group of power hungry men voted her in.
This scene was right before the Handmaids Tale first episode.
The key is they didn’t change their stance; they lied before Congress.
This. It was the most abhorrent lie, I can remember, from a sworn witness when Brett Kavanaugh said, "It is settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court, entitled the respect under principles of stare decisis," he said. "The Supreme Court ***has recognized the right to abortion*** since the 1973 *Roe v. Wade* case. It has reaffirmed it many times." At that point in time you could say I was more middle of the road--like split ticket type voter. That lie in particular pushed me over the edge. I will never vote for a Republican again. I have taken nothing the Republicans say as true since they overturned Roe V. Wade . They cannot be trusted and they almost always lie. Further reading if you are interested: [https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings) Edit: Emphasis my own.
Yes exactly. As Rachel Maddow frequently puts it, don’t look at what they say. Look at what they DO.
They lawyer’d their way out of it. They implied, but they didn’t say outright. We knew they would kill it at the first opportunity, they knew we knew, and that we couldn’t stop them. They gave courtesy sound bites so it could seem like Dems actually had a say in the matter, but they didn’t. Not enough asses in seats to stop the process the way The GOP did
Their thirst for punishing women is unslakeable
And scary and disturbing as fuck.
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I spent a few years in sub-Saharan Africa with the Peace Corps. I distinctly remember a time when I was at our community creche (preschool) and I was sitting on the ground with girl that must have been about 5 or 6 years old. She and I were were talking about something silly while she proceeded to draw this awesome little field filled with goats and cows happily running around. Despite having spent very little time drawing before and being 6 years old her little art piece was really good. She was clearly enthusiastic, having fun and focused on what she was doing. Her Aunt walked in to pick her up from the Creche, took one look at the drawing, crumpled it up and dropped it on the ground. When I asked her why she did that she looked at me like I was a crazy person and said "Girls can't draw." Seeing generations of conditioning teaching women to hold other women back expressed in a single moment was really disheartening.
Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
America struggles with the belief that privileged women can be as evil as privileged men.
There is a good video interview by Jordan Kepler of women who are Trump supporters in 2016 were a bunch of them are adamant that we can't allow a woman to become president because with her hormones she is going to start a new war every month.... They are also adamant about gays not being allowed to marry because asking for the same rights as the normal people is too much and they haven't earned it. It's one of those interviews that stays with me, the same as the one were a Trump supporter insist twice that people shouldn't be sheeps and should read the transcript of the perfect call of donald trump to zelensky but he doesn't need to, he heard what some commentators said about it and that's enough for him. But remember, don't be a sheep, read the transcript !
And the media just let Bill Barr openly lie about the contents of a publicly available document. SMH.
Would any of them happened to be named Lydia?
Mean Girls.
Right? Feels weird to think one day my body will legally belong to them. But then, maybe that's already the case somehow. I personally don't think you can have freedom without the right to oneself but I understand a lot of our fellow "patriots" don't enjoy freedom lol.
They are letting States decide. But, the States that decide wrong need to be overturned by their government.
Only Republican states should get to decide.
Anyone who was raised by Evangelical Christian parents knew this way ahead of the Trump Administration. They believe abortion is literal murder. Why would they stop at state lines?
Interesting to me because South Carolina was floating the idea of the death penalty for women who get one. Yet they let a man who annihilated his entire family save one child off of the death penalty.
I've literally been told by Evangelical Christians "I would rather have more murders than more abortions."
That defeats the object, wtf 😂
worthless special shocking squeeze grandfather cooing quarrelsome exultant pot pathetic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It doesn't. The underlying objective is not to simply punish but to control. That's what ties it together with the general authoritarianism of the political movement. It's about feeling better / more worthy than others.
Yeah, it's just their pretend reason makes no sense and makes them look dishonest.
Yeah, I’ve heard that too. The rationale is that women choose to have sex and the fetus didn’t choose and as such the life of the fetus takes precedence. Even when pushed to include all women in this they still say the fetus takes precedent. It’s a sin thing. The woman by definition committed sin, but the fetus has not.
Then gay marriage, then birth control, then science, they have showed us what they want. Just imagine as dystopian as Project 2025 is, what would Project 2029 be if they win? I posit this for Project 2029: "Anything deemed by the High Council as Demonic, will be destroyed with the full force and fury of the state."
The majority of these voters genuinely don’t even want to live in this shitty society. Every time these people actually get what they want, there is mass buyer’s remorse almost immediately. It’s like they get so caught up in owning the libs that they cut off their own nose before realizing what they are doing.
It seems to be an emotional reaction.
Never trust a conservative. Or anyone else that tells you how morally superior they are while doing really immoral shit.
No? Like, I have legit no clue who anyone was listening to if they thought that was their goal. That was more like a reluctant compromise some of them accepted if they couldn't do any better than that.
Funny thing is even by executive orders, state Constitution's supercede those. It's why even though gay marriage is a constitutional right, multiple states STILL refuse to accept them.
Those that are against abortion generally view it as murder. There can be no compromise from that position.
Yet they support the death penalty. They’re fine with murder. They just want to control women.
That is certainly true for some of them. Not all.
77% of Republicans support the death penalty. https://news.gallup.com/poll/404975/steady-americans-support-death-penalty-murderers.aspx Here's another poll that found the level at 80% of Republicans who support the death penalty. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/public-opinion-polls/political-affiliation-and-the-death-penalty 86% of GOP primary voters said they’d be more likely to vote for a candidate who sent military troops to defend the Southern border. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-sending-troops-us-mexico-border-popular-gop-policy-planks-are-str-rcna91245 What do you imagine that those GOP primary voters think the military's going to do there...? They want them to treat this like a wartime invasion. They want refugees and asylum seekers to be killed. Including, presumably, pregnant women and their children. The OVERWHELMING majority of Republican voters are hypocrites when it comes to the death penalty and abortion. Don't brush it away as "just some of them."
That's the piece that the left refuses to acknowledge. These people will *never* operate in good faith. They'll say and do whatever they need to in order to get what they want. Everyone besides them is an enemy to be outmaneuvered, outwitted, or crushed. We need to get down in the gutter and start brawling if we want to break their kneecaps.
Project 25 is just straight propaganda. There is no serious evidence that supports the idea of Trump's administration pushing the bill. The administration literally announced themselves that they had nothing to do with project 2025. Trumps most recent abortion stance has been to leave it in the hands of states.
and its funny to me that "let the states decide" is supposed to pacify people. Like "we will take away your rights but only in 1/2 of the country" is supposed to be okay
They just believe whatever they want to, don't they? Guess things like history and statistical likelihood couldn't shake them from their "heads up their own ass" levels of stupidity?
That’s the beauty of religion. They can form any option, especially wrong or immoral ones, and blame religion for The reason they believe something that goes against morality and empathy….
I mean, 1/3rd of Jesus' ministry was, "Will you stop using religion to justify everything." It's the refuge of any asshole who wants to claim he can't be questioned for his assholery.
And then scoff at you as the lesser person if you point it at.
> That’s the beauty of ~~religion~~ lazy thinking
>Evangelicals won't be bothered by Trump's abortion gambit — they saw his mouth move, so they know he's lying, and they aren't upset, mainly because they owe their own existence to the same behaviour FTFY
Correct. They see in Trump a flaw that that no other president has had to date. He is a transactional person who has no boundries. He has no qualms about selling his office, the country, the constitution, or anything for that matter, as long as it benefits him in some way. Oaths mean nothing to him. Heck, even loyalty to him means nothing. So they pinch their nose and strike a deal. You stuff the courts with the Christian right-wing extremist we chose for you, and we will deliver you our votes and money. Other than that, you can do and say whatever you wish. Simple as that.
I’ve been reading in various news outlets of Biden gaining evangelical voters as some are turning away from Trump. They object to mixing religion with politics. It’s still a small minority. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-losing-white-evangelicals-joe-biden-1876228 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/one-evangelical-pastor-left-radicalized-post-jan-6-america-rcna14869 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScbvRNRgAcUo1UfZfxuBZHmv63FI8k2gnxxAaNVlCvsiG9xHw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0
Sadly, the American Taliban are just as bad. They to are more than willing to destroy the nation to achieve their goal of a White Nationalist Theorcracy. Too many of their followers are just going along with what they say.
This is true to a degree yes. It definitely is a small minority but I have personally met some of these people. The common agreement amongst them were that they felt it was scary to see how cult-like Trump supporters are and felt like they were worshiping a false idol. Things like selling a bible coincidentally when he needed money were also turn offs, not because of the obvious money-making scheme but just how terrified they were seeing how many Trump supporters were dumb enough to latch onto it like this was a work of god himself. In a sense its primarily due to the extreme devotion of his supporters than anything Trump himself did that have turned away these extremely devoted christians that I have ran into. Unfortunately, not all christians have been smart enough to figure out Trump is just enabling cult behavior cause Trump worship is what matters most to him
Jan. 6 turned off a number of both evangelicals and what some call Reagan-era Republicans who were horrified and appalled by the Jan. 6 Capitol riot/insurrection. There are groups including GOP strategists who are anti-Trump who are working to get these people to openly discuss their views (as testimonials) and why they turned against Trump and will broadcast those testimonials on social media and other sites in hopes of turning other conservative voters against him as well.
I want to believe that.
>I’ve been reading in various news outlets of Biden gaining evangelical voters as some are turning away from Trump. Papists before rapists?
Papists are Catholic, no? At least some will hopefully either sit out the election or maybe vote for Biden.
That was a joke.
OK, I was just pointing out Catholic reference not related to Evangelicals.
They see in Trump a man that uses Christianity the way they do: as a prop. The men want to adultery, blow up brown people, and enrich themselves. They just want to be considered Godly doing so.
Writer here! Just want to say I agree, with one tweak: They aren't pinching their nose. They looooooove Trump. His shamelessness is permission for them, to abandon the pretense that they ever cared about morality. It's just all about power.
Ironically, the transactional nature of Trump would also mean that pressure from big pharma to keep sales of contraceptives, day-after pills, etc. going could pave a difficult path for the evangelicals, and their grand plans of banning such things. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and no way in hell will the pharma industry just say *"Ok, guess we'll just quit selling those then"* because a small fringe movement says so. They'll lobby the hell out of DC, and they'll sue.
They plan to use the courts to get these banned. That is why they need to stuff their judges in there. Once in place, they will be almost impossible to remove.
So much for "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" CINO: Christians In Name Only
God lies a bunch in the Bible. Tricks people and sends tests just to “gotcha”. They’ve been CINOs since Year 1AD, because it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
There's no contradiction there though: god can lie as much as he wants but humans are forbidden to do so. There is no presumption of equality there, just a moral hierarchy with the deity at the top. The relationship is at best patriarchal, at worst overtly despotic depending on what is fashionable with the target audience. This is basically why religion has very little to say about morality, just as it has nothing to contribute to explaining the natural world. The idea of a deity as portrayed by them is a moral and logical paradox. Every moral or natural question in such a system becomes a tautology ("because god says so", "because god made it that way", ...). It's hardly a surprise when people extend this principle further, where it becomes morally right to cheat, lie and sometimes kill for what they see as god's plan. They define themselves as good (or at least more worthy) by definition because of their faith (i.e. their relationship with god, who defines what is moral), and their opponents as evil by that same definition, to the extend that they convince themselves the end justifies the means. This is a typical case of bad faith, where they use the idea of divine sanction or a divine plan to imagine themselves as anything but human beings free to make moral choices.
> There is no presumption of equality there, just a moral hierarchy with the deity at the top. The relationship is at best patriarchal, at worst overtly despotic depending on what is fashionable with the target audience. This is basically why religion has very little to say about morality, just as it has nothing to contribute to explaining the natural world. The idea of a deity as portrayed by them is a moral and logical paradox. Every moral or natural question in such a system becomes a tautology ("because god says so", "because god made it that way", ...). Yes, when you portray morality as following God, and immorality as not following God, Then it's not about what is right and wrong, but on doing whatever the more powerful person wants. Christians don't help widows and orphans because helping widows and orphans is the right thing to do, they help widows and orphans because The Big Guy told them to do so. If tomorrow The Big Guy told them to beat up widows and orphans, then they would do so and see no moral contradiction, because there is no moral contradiction between "I'm just following orders". This also explains why they're so liable to fall for cult leaders. If a Cult leader presents himself as powerful like The Big Guy, than he can speak for The Big Guy, or even replace him.
Indeed. To be fair, that's why most religious people pick and choose which rules they follow and which they don't, which parts of god they believe in and what parts they don't. They simply create god and religion in their own image (rather than vice versa) and, specifically, their own morality. The big problem with this is that they then have to twist themselves into knots to justify this as the revelatory texts and associated dogmas, all of whom contain grossly immoral precepts, are supposed to be universal and unchangeable truths. This then puts them at a disadvantage to fundamentalists (who do define absolute morality as doing whatever god supposedly wants). The moderates have to believe that somehow god saw fit give his message to mankind through a mess of contradictions, metaphors, context that has long since disappeared, ... Ultimately, god can not be reconciled with a morality centered on the human experience, because an all good, omnipotent, omniscient deity is an obvious logical paradox (Epicurus' paradox of evil has never been answered IMHO). It's much easier for the zealots who absolve themselves of the moral complexities of their choices by pretending god chose for them and that this makes anything they do right and moral. > This also explains why they're so liable to fall for cult leaders. Exactly. Pretending that you don't make your own choices is the classic example of bad faith, and it doesn't really matter whether it's the leader or the deity who supposedly calls the shots. Since the latter doesn't exist and therefore doesn't speak, it's almost always a variation of the former. The authority this lends them and that their followers want to justify their actions is the same either way.
If only their god had given a specific list of things to not do…
Yo it's me God-- things y'all want to know about me... I'm a little jelly, so my first four BIG BIG rules are: 1. I'm the coolest. 2. I better not find pictures of other girls on your phone. 3. Don't talk shit about me, ever. 4. I get a special day every week, and y'all should have a party. Now, don't expect me to show up, but it better be lit and I better not catch any of y'all sleeping in. You break any of my rules, the penalty is TORTURE FOREVER, kapish? Anyway, hit my Venmo to stay on my good side.
It definitely doesn't help that deities as depicted in various revelatory texts are at best tricksters, at worst commit or plan evil deeds. It's weird that this is somehow the concept to anchor morality to, especially as there are fairly devastating logical and philosophical arguments against the existence of a moral deity, even without the less than edifying examples depicted in various texts.
It's not weird, it's the point. Religion primarily serves to control people by stopping thought on social and moral issues. Replacing problematic thought with arbitrarily accepted dogma and social truth helps create a mush less thinking, less ambitious and more controllable population. People who think are much more likely to be dissatisfied with the status quo. A status quo that demands conformance to seemingly arbitrary modes of behavior. Behaviors that only benefit those higher in the hierarchy in anticipation of some ill defined divine reward after death. By positioning morality as both the single factor for determining divine judgement, and something that cannot possibly be understood by people, we position the Church as the sole unquestionable authority on allowed behavior. Marry the Church to the Government and you can control all aspects of human life via social influence, effectively implementing social discipline via the religious mob. This removes all social and moral responsibility from both the population and the Government while letting the Church decide which way the moral compass points. Crusades anyone?
It is interesting that duality- this is a question in Sharia law that illustrates the paradox: In this context, the formulation of the Sunni view can be summarized as follows; Human reason is a gift from God which should be exercised to its fullest capacity.[^(\[66\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHallaq200915-71) However, use of reason alone is insufficient [to distinguish right from wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjoining_good_and_forbidding_wrong), and rational argumentation must draw its content from the body of transcendental knowledge revealed in the Quran and through the sunnah of Muhammad. From Wikipedia. It is sort of yes you have free will- but that ain't enough, you need magic also.
Similar principles exist in Christian doctrine IIRC, and for the same purpose. Reason prompts us to reject belief when it is unfounded, and there is no proof of the supernatural or any specific deity. Therefore you have to limit reason to deliberately exclude this fundamental concept, and by doing so you fatally undermine its utility. > you need magic also. I concur with this. The idea of a deity is inherently paradoxical and poses insurmountable moral and philosophical problems for any attempt at a rational or even humanist worldview. In this case the mystics were right: the various attempts to marry reason and religion were, in fact, pointless and dangerous to the foundations of their faith. It's just that they were also wrong about the existence of god. This need for magic that can not be defined or supplied in rational terms does not signify that religions are special or transcend reason. It simply shows that their fundamental premise is wrong.
The thing about acceptance of this fundamental flaw is that we can use it to our benefit. If a group is given to agree on this paradox, we now open the door to endless interpretation, a constant force to manipulate and create innumerable in groups and out groups. It is an almost limitless source of energy, based solely on human frailty.
Yes, that is a possible use case. A less morally problematic one is that delusions can bring comfort to people. If it wasn't for the existence of the former, the latter would be fairly harmless. The problem is that it is mostly used as a tool for social control by existing hierarchies. This abortion thing is merely an exponent of the drive to subordinate women and control people's sexuality in general, all because they need to construct imaginary moral hierarchies where they can look down on the sinners as others look down on them in turn. It's the basic premise of reactionary thought, IMHO, which explains the political associations they've been making. That also means they won't stop at this, because the entire point for everyone involved is to place themselves above everyone else. The goal is an endless series of concentric in-groups, although the very application of faith stops them from actually realizing or acknowledging that.
You must always do what the man in the fancy hat says.
I think the most interesting literary read of the Old Testament is that God is just fucking sick of his people constantly doing the human sacrifice, idolatry, and sleeping with their children thing. As Homer said, "I have become ashamed of my own creation. Now I know how God feels."
One view is this: Having happened long before the birth of Christ, The Old Testament is not Christian. It is included in the Bible as a counter to the New Testament. The old is how things were. The new is how things should be under Christ. God was vengeful and wrathful. Enemies were to be smote. God even flooded the Earth and killed everyone. The entire intent of Jesus' story was to change this view and present a loving caring God who should then be followed by loving caring people. Many Christians seem to have decided they like the old ways better.
That's extra hard on Old Testament god, though the above perspective is as old as the Gnostics. This is the god who said he would spare multiple cities of evil doers if they had but a single good person alive in them. People always point to Abraham And Isaac as a sign of what an asshole God is. Never realizing that the ending of the story is, "You, out of every culture alive right now, should not commit human sacrifice."
I find it interesting that the current Christian Churches were formed by early Christians resolving their differences through mass murder, as with the Gnostics. What we have today appears to be the result of an evolutionary process where the most ruthless groups consistently rise to power. Evangelicals are just the latest to have this ambition.
Eh, by that logic, Roman paganism should have survived.
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Yes. Any questions?
make no mistake, they know he's bullshit, a liar, a grifter, in it for himself, not at all christian, but they will still vote for him.
Because for Christians, the end justifies the means. Christianity is disgusting and vile. It’s a weapon - that’s what religions are. Imagine believing an immortal old man with super powers lives in the clouds 🙄
To MAGA Christians Trump is a modern day King Cyrus.
Except none of them have read Habakkuk and understand the reference.
Like Biden, Clinton, and Obama?
It's a cult of lies. I know it's supposed to be shocking but right wing "Christians" are all in on this cult and always have been. They are liars, traitors and hypocrites. Lies are their power. Cruelty is their love language.
It's sort of the cycle of abuse- as long as somebody else can go through the same pain I experienced, by the same system, than I made the right choice, pain is inevitable, and this system is unstoppable.
They probably imagine that if Trump is elected he’ll obey them out of some drive that Trump is incapable of experiencing, like honour or gratitude.
And lying is perfectly acceptable. Fifth Corrintinan, or third Californian, or something.
Agree. Nothing has more explicitly highlighted the fact that all evengelical fundamentalists want is power than their embrace of donald the rapist and adulterer. They couldn't care less. They will rationalize away his rape, his sexually assaulting women, his adultery, his gluttony, his tens of thousands of lies, his daily shitty and disgusting statements and tweets. None of it matters to to them, none of it. It's all about power and the ability to force their opinions on everyone. If a trump supporter, for the rest of their lives, every mentions morality, decency, ethics, family values or law and order laugh in their face.
There really is no gong back to normal. I can't take any Republican policies seriously anymore because at some point Donald Trump has contradicted every single one of them and Republicans did not care. The mask is off and there is no putting it back on.
If he wins, here’s the potential pivot, “I said it should be up to the states and most of our states want a total ban. The people have spoken.”
It's the mythical mandate play. They do this on the local and state level all the time when they do wildly extreme stuff- "I was sent here by the people- to ban books and roll back environmental regulations!"
This is the problem with the republican base; they will hear only what they want to hear. Trump recognizes abortion is NOT a winning platform and costed them their red wave in 2022. This is why he is trying to pivot saying he supports a 15-max week abortion time frame but nothing on a national level and solely up for the states to decide. This is why he also keeps pointing out he himself is the sole reason Roe v Wade was overturned because he's trying to appeal to both religious conservatives and the younger/women voters who he was losing due to his abortion stance. Evangelicals heard this as: "He's saying this because its politics! He doesn't actually mean it because he is trying to get elected and get voters from all sides so he can win. Once we have secured the presidency we can start pivoting to a national ban!" First: You're admitting abortion bans aren't popular across the majority of America but you're likely the first to say "we the people" (a line I now despise because of conservatives who say this all the time but do the exact opposite of it). Secondly: You spent decades saying this was always a states right issue - but really you were a wolf in sheep's clothing as this was always the plan. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you say against them as they'll always believe this is morally justified as it's an act of god himself. Ironically, they are the very reason the founding fathers explicitly stated the separation of church and state. Any time you give government power over a religion, it will always be used for evil to enrich the same people abusing the religion. I would love to ask Marjorie Green Taylor one day what version of the christian god she wants the government to force on Americans because the one she worships wouldn't agree with the one I do and we're both supposedly "christians".
“Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime.” - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason To add for those who like all the context: "It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime. He takes up the trade of a priest for the sake of gain, and in order to qualify himself for that trade, he begins with a perjury. Can we conceive any thing more destructive to morality than this?' https://www.ushistory.org/Paine/reason/reason1.htm
Some of the dumbest people on this planet. Spoiled too.
Over in r/conservative they’re all saying how it’s ok for him to say this to get elected but then he better make a national ban on day 1
Exactly. They know he’s lying, but he’s not lying to *them*! He’s lying to the conservatives in the middle who *want* to vote for him, but are turned off by the potential of a national ban. He’s lying to convince “moderates” and he wont lose the Bible thumpers votes because they know he’s lying and a national ban is imminent if he wins.
Whenever Trump has a policy position, I know he really has no opinion and is just parroting something whispered in his ear.
Hell, even the Conservatives on the Supreme Court know that he is lying.
Satan speaks through his false profit directly to his Evangelical followers. The end is near. (Mwahaha mwahaha hiss hiss)
In his little "My stance on abortion" video, he even added in the "We need to win elections" line, essentially telling everyone he's lying about supporting exceptions or leaving it up to the states. He's just saying it thinking it'll appease the moderates (it won't). You can't take longstanding rights away from people and then try to play the good guy by offering to give a tiny amount back. The people that are dumb enough to buy that shit are the ones who aren't even upset about the issue in the first place.
Evangelicals are a cancer
Christians happy because they know that their leader is lying just to get enough votes to be elected so that they can get what they want. Means to an end. Nevermind that lying is sinful. >Revelation 21:8, "all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death".
Everyone knows he is lying.
"evangelicals" mentally ill people
LOL! This man literally promised universe healthcare the first time he ran. It was all bullshit and he tried to remove Obamacare, with no backup plan.
They had Paul Ryan’s plan, which was to yank away health care for tens of millions. That’s honestly the best they can do because they don’t want to have any regulations that would make it easier to afford. https://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539907467/senate-careens-toward-high-drama-midnight-health-care-vote
I think Trump's announcement was about as good as he could do for his strategy. Evangelicals and progressives know hes lying, the middle or those not paying too much attention won't be spooked by a national ban. I suspect he lost very few votes on the right and the price was no furthering hemmorage in the middle.
The entire Evangelical religion is performative. They do not really live by their own rules. Its all a lie. Their religion is a weapon they use against other, not how they really live their own lives. So, naturally, they do not give a rat's ass if "their people" lie. They are all lying all the time.
Saying you personally believe it's up to the states isn't the same as saying you'll veto a national abortion ban that makes it to your desk. Not that I would trust anything Trump says anyways.
Counterattack, force a legal argument on the definition of religion. A city could define non-affiliated religious events as entertainment ala Jesus Christ Superstar. Then tax them. Let them sue. Make the Supreme Court define religion. Then beat the bastards over the head with it. Doesn't matter what the court says, once there's a ruling you can pound Kenneth Copeland and force him into court again and again.
Just a reminder that these and other religious people believe in magic. Magic. Let that sink in for a moment. I'm all for religious freedom but as soon as your religion interferes with other people's lives and they start wanting to arrest people with the backing of the Bible then they have to go. Can we just kick them out of America and send them to the Taliban? Pretty much identical except for the magic man they praise.
As do we all. It’s disheartening to hear all this coverage and handwringing by conservative commentators saying they’ll reluctantly stick with him regardless of his position. He has no “position” other than stay out of jail and play golf while evangelicals and the Federalist Society run the house.
Yeah, the people that believe a guy floated a boat to Australia to pick up one male and female kangaroo and then returned it before the flood ended can't be fooled.
All he does is lie. I think he lies even if telling the truth is not a problem.
An entire campaign predicated on the notion that enough Americans are deeply idiotic, myopic, and unwilling to see reason if it doesn't align with their prejudices and petty bigotries. If Trump wins again, America won't just be badly led, it will truly be lost and beyond any reasonable way to repair it.
I really wish that I could send this as an email to every damn anti-abortion imbecile in the USA: It's painfully obvious that the white Christian Nationalists, Republicans, and white supremacists who are frightened by their 'replacement' theory boogeyman, haven't done any research, and haven't thought things through about banning abortion to supposedly increase the number of WHITE babies.... I'm not going to dive into all of the bigotry and prejudice that makes it much more difficult for black women and Hispanic women to be able to afford having children, but those factors are highly significant. Data shows that 5 times MORE black women than white women seek out abortions, and TWICE as many Hispanic women as white women seek out abortions. Removing access to free and low-cost contraceptives will also increase the number of minorities born, far above the birth rates of white women. Due to this bizarre and brainless campaign to ban abortion (nationwide, eventually) and probably ban contraceptives too, **within less than 20 years minority voters will DEFINITELY outnumber whites**. THEN the damn fool Republican politicians frak up in-vitro fertilization, making it TOO EXPENSIVE and legally complicated for all those WHITE WOMEN to get pregnant with white babies! It's amazing how stupid those white Christian Nationalists and white supremacists are.
Adding this as a reply because the Reddit edit function mangles my entire comment: What is the end game of these white Christian Nationalist fools? Total destruction of America? Are they so astoundingly dense to think that by destroying the planet that they claim 'god' gave to humanity, that they can force their god's hand and force "him" to bring on the "Rapture"? Their arrogance and evil is worse than that of the bible's biggest bogeyman, 'Satan'! Crime WILL rise if Roe v Wade isn't restored, because unwanted children are far more likely to grow up to be criminals. Trump and the white Christian Nationalists want the home-grown variety of criminals to overrun America, and then of course they'll blame the Democrats.🙄
Running a successful political campaign used to be about finding the sweet spot of issues and sides to take. For MAGA it is simply lie all the time. The people who want to believe the lie will choose to and the ones who don't will tell themselves it's a lie and be fine with it. How do you talk sense to that voting block? 😖
As long as he continues to cavort with prostitutes, mock the disabled, insult his opponents, denigrate immigrants, lie, cheat and steal, he’ll have a lock on the evangelical vote.
***Everybody*** knows he's lying
All they care about are the list of judges he’s using for SCOTUS and lower court nominees. To the Evangelicals, they know a president is a 4 year term subject to gridlock. But get them the right lifetime appointees in the courts and they control everything they seek to control.
Donald Trump could rape and murder someone on live TV and not lose a single Christian/Republican vote
Trump? LIE?!?! But he's so sincere and honest all the time. (/s... obviously)
Everybody knows he's lying. You don't get to appoint 3 supreme court justices specifically to torpedo Roe V Wade, which they did, and then suddenly act like a moderate.
Evangelicals are evil soldiers.
Imagine voting for someone *because you know that they’re lying.*
A lot of trumps strategies are doublespeak, peace in isreal, healthcare for all, no abortion ban. The right is rarely bothered because of this exact reason. The in groups know what he stands for, it's the outgroups that get confused. And he only needs to pick off a few percent of the outgroups. Its also a ton harder to message that he is a liar than it is for him too offhandedly lie with the amount of coverage he gets for free. Its like fighting a wildfire with a garden hose.
Get used to Trump America, unless Millenials vote. And PS, its not the Mango man who I fear, its those that come after. THEY will be the ruthless monsters. Not the orange bufoon. But, the Boomer's cocaine, weed and booze addled brains are repenting for past guilt will show up at the polls. Zombies will be led by their zombie king. They will lead the American Experiment to a gain-of-function lab on K-Street. Then, as we Gen X'ers start to retire... thats when the killing really starts. Mark my words. 2028 = Year of War in the IndoPacific and Revolution at home... all confused and messy as fuck. You'll be for and against war... For and against revolution.
You should write fan fiction.
That's kind of you. I dont have that much to say TBH. I just enjoy shaking my fist at the sky anonymously.
That was probably what Trump attempted. His goal is always to have it both ways. The trick is to create enough mud and chaos that enough people will see what they want. These political Rorschach tests doesn’t need to fully convince they just need to justify people to dismiss what they want to dismiss. It’s scary how it is effective.
Trump's abortion statement is like a hostage video made by a desperate man: "Save me, just get out there and vote for me, vote for Donald Trump, me me me me, just please vote for me and keep me out of jail." [https://factkeepers.com/were-you-waiting-with-bated-breath-for-trumps-big-announcement-on-abortion-plop-its-here/](https://factkeepers.com/were-you-waiting-with-bated-breath-for-trumps-big-announcement-on-abortion-plop-its-here/)
Quote from speech/ article: **He lied about the Democrats, “the radical ones because they support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month, and even execution after birth, and that’s exactly what it is. The baby is born, and the baby is executed after birth.”** Over time I have learned that every "example" or specific logic Trump provides is always a lie, red meat for the base. When he says things like, "that's exactly what it is." get ready he is directly programing his cult with falsehoods. This signals them to repeat it and by repetition, create it as an alternate reality, no matter how outlandish and false. We can commiserate about the education system, the propaganda machine ad nauseum as to the cause, but let us not absolve our MAGA neighbors of their willful ignorance, their choice at the root of all this. They know! They are manipulating us in bad faith, we must shun them and ignore them at this point for our own well being.
God’s steward has to lie, rape, and pillage in order to get what Christian’s want. This has seriously been the formula since the inquisition.
The only ones fooled by this are stupid “independent” voters who would have voted for him anyways. They’ll use this to justify their vote and then shrug if he wins and implements a national abortion ban.
It’s pretty eye opening that even now the evangelicals have caught on this guy lies all the time.
As if that will stop evangelicals from voting for him. Wishful thinking.
So does everyone else...
What part of “No part of the world”don’t they understand?
Who could have guessed that the people who stand for nothing, have, and will continue to fall for everything.
I thought lying was against Christian doctrine 😂
If actions and inactions are evidence, then evangelicals seem like a morally questionable people.
"they know he's lying"....but most evangelicals will still vote for him...smh
Religion a lie? Stop the presses
Yeah, the only people this will impact are the so-called moderates, who seem to find every excuse to both-sides everything. *"Oh look, he's not that bad, he's not calling for a national ban!"* And then a year later, they'll go, *"But how could we have known he'd change his mind?!" :shocked-pikachu-face:* Remember Susan Collins, anyone?
Pure political kayfabe.
There’s no polite way to say it but evangelicals are simply very unintelligent people. They aren’t particularly interested in any ideology or ethics/morals.
Correct. Hes changed his position more than a vegas hooker and if he goes back to the white house he will hand off the reins to someone else (because hes there to enact revenge not to actually lead or help people.) He had waffling stances on abortion last time and it resulted in Roe being overturned. Why change a winning strategy?
They also already know that he's an adulterous pornstar paying sexual abuser who is also a card, sneaker, and bible Hawker, who will go down as one of the greatest con artists in american political history and it doesnt matter
All this confirms evangelicals know Trump lies.
And people are fleeing the church in record numbers. Surprise, surprise
They want any maga to win so they can work the 2025 plan and ruin the country with their authoritarianism.
Which is just fine with Christian’s…what!
We need to show them that we the people are the real power here. Working is nearly obsolete since we can't afford to feed ourselves working 3 jobs, we may as well quit and march en-mass to the capital and show them that we will start with peaceful means but aren't afraid to stand up for ourselves!
Evangelical Christianity is basically the same as Trumpism - lies upon lies designed to suppress women and make oodles of tax-free money. Oh and something about Jesus…
It's not really about belief for them. They don't want the "other" so they vote against them with no care for who they are actually voting into power as long as it isn't the "other."
I’ll be damned if I’ll live in the United States of Christianity. Fuck that.
It’s fair to say that Evangelicals are soulless, hypocritical monsters.
So broken
They just love this steaming pile of Trump.
Religious fanatics will always lie to further their agenda. Some religious even codify that lying to get more members
American Evangelicals are literally the scum of the earth.
wrong. We know Trump isn’t one of us….it was nice getting ACB but I’m done with Trump
Evangelicals for Satanist Trump
…Not understanding that. United States is a secular republic. Government recognises no deity.
It’s up the states