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"In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, **and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.**"
- Benjamin Franklin - Closing Speech at the Constitutional Convention (1787)
The Founders were all Classicists. Lifelong students of Greek & Rome. And both of those ancient Democracies ended in Despotism.
That descent into despotism is one of the major threads of thought in the Publius letters in the Federalist papers, and the underpinning logic as to why the Founders came up with the three equal branches of government - and our founding as a representative democracy as opposed to pure democracy.
Honestly, I'm curious what would happen if Biden brought that up during the debates.
"You want Trump to have all this power if elected, but I'm elected right now. So does that mean I get that same power you want him to have? So why don't I just cancel the election, lock *him* up and keep going? Because I prefer democracy and you having the right to vote, the right to elect who you choose, and the freedom of the people whether you're on that side of the aisle or my side of it. That's what America is and should always be."
Or something better written to the same effect.
Would they conveniently edit out the rest and just leave the "cancel the election" part to blast across right wing media without full context like they did the "pants shitting" video? Or would some of the people actually listen to what he just said and *maybe* realize giving *any* President that level of power is fucking beyond stupid because that means they *all* have it.
Tbf, when you're doing public speaking especially into a microphone, aren't you supposed to speak a bit more slowly? To help with reverb and making sure people can catch what you're saying?
Well, Trump should be locked up for the duration of the insurrection. The election can and should happen, but the law already allows enemies of the Constitution to be held without trial like any other prisoner of war.
1. Biden should invoke the Militia, Insurrection and Enforcement Acts in any combination needed to oppose the insurrection, without trial, as the law allows.
2. Felony charges should be brought for EVERYONE this time. No more letting the Jeff Davis’ walk free.
Of course not -- obviously the 2020 election was stolen, so Biden goes to jail and Trump is president for life under the new constitution that Trump ad-libs during a 45-minute rant ratified by the SC
There are MAGA subversives who actually think they can roll the dice and have better chances of winning in a fascist civil war played out in street brawls than in the election. They're trying to invent and propagandize scenarios to justify their fantasies. Some of them like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are thankfully in prison for sedition.
Fake News. LOL
GOP guys in Wisconsin are having to clean up another mess. Same bullshit.
"Nu Uhhh" is pretty much the line they are standing behind. SMFH its truly insane.
Makes perfect sense if you have no idea what a Democratic Republic is. Much like their complete misunderstanding of Socialisms or the 1st Amendment, vaccines, or how the court system works .. or really fucking anything in general. Most oblivious people in history
It comes down to — at least for a large number of these people — to a weird, twisted version of semantics.
They believe that as “Republicans” they are for a republic, whereas that means they are against a “democracy” because that’s what the “Democrats” favor. That’s their logic.
They understand that people vote for their government, they just don’t like the word “democracy” because they associate it with “Democrat”.
I am not joking. I worked with a guy who believed this and would try to show me “evidence” of this. He is a fucking moron who has had too many head injuries.
One time I told my dad I like Bernie Sanders and he went off how he was such a socialist and tried convincing me that the biggest socialist to ever live was Hitler.
Which is made even sadder by the fact his own father fought in WWII.
Was he aware that the Nazis threw Communists into the concentration camps too? They were the ones wearing the red star. Not all Holocaust victims were Jewish.
I mean, the Democratic party in the South at that time was largely the pro-slavery party, and the Republicans were the (relatively) progressive, anti-slavery party of that time. Don't forget that one of the most famous progressive politicians, Teddy Roosevelt, was a Republican.
Unfortunately, the present GOP wants to ignore the last 160 years of history and pretend that the civil rights movement didn't result in the racists moving to the GOP.
And Republicans taking credit for emancipating blacks, even though the racists at that time were all Democrats and switched sides when LBJ pushed civil rights legislation through.
They also use it to justify the EC, Senate, and gerrymandering. Fair voting is for democracies. Republics are allowed biased structures according to them. When I point out many self proclaimed republics like France, Germany, etc look way more like what they call democracies it ends the conversation.
I believe you! Another thing that's painfully true is that after Trump entered politics, he single-handedly confirmed that America is full of ignorant and utterly stupid voters.
Voting is a constitutional right. The only condition is we register. Regardless of whether we're dumb or smart, we can still vote for a candidate who's a finger-fucking rapist, a traitor, a lifelong criminal, and a convicted felon.
Yup. For me one of the most demoralizing things about Trump's victory was the fact that he was in a very real way representative of the true nature of our country.
I think that may be the extent of it for some people, but it's quite clear that the reason people are saying it more in recent years is that it's a response to criticism of antidemocratic conduct by Republicans in recent years. It's the "life's not fair" of American civics. I.e.., if some prick does something really unfair, and someone points out that it's unfair, the prick says "life's not fair." Likewise, when Republicans do something deeply undemocratic, and critics point out that it's deeply undemocratic, Republicans say "America's not a democracy."
I think this is important to keep in mind because I think for many of these people it really is just a rhetorical device to be deployed for that purpose, not a real perspective that informs their views in a consistent way--even a dumb perspective that is consistent with stupid views. It doesn't remain a meaningful part of their worldview when it's not giving them moral permission to dominate others. When Democrats obtain power and use it to advance their agenda, the same Republicans who are eager to shout "America's not a democracy!" when their leaders are being undemocratic will very promptly resort to populist language about "we the people," and they're very eager to claim that the majority of Americans are on their side.
For many of these people, "America's not a democracy" is just an excuse for Republicans (and only Republicans) to pursue power by undemocratic means.
💯
Just ask any of them to continue the "We the people..." line they have plastered on their cars, or even tattooed on their bodies.
That's very often where it ends. Or, ask them about *any* amendment beyond the first two, and watch those rusty gears struggling to turn.
For their convenience, here's a link to the full US Constitution as amended.
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/full-text
Search this text for the word "republic" and you'll see it exactly once, referring only to state governments.
Search it for the phrase "the people" and you'll see it nine, count 'em, nine times.
This reminds me of an event that happened to me in high school. I'm Canadian, but went to high school in the US. In order to graduate everyone has to take a civics class and pass a final exam. A few days later the teacher gets up in front of the class and says "I am ashamed of every single one of you. The only person in this class to get 100% is the only person in this class that isn't American." I loved that teacher 😂.
You have got to understand, they aren't stupid. They just don't \*want\* nice things unless they can also have white supremacy. **If black folks have equal access to public stuff, all having nice things does is make majority white populations have to subsidize poor blacks instead of the other way around.**
That's why red states try to fuck over cities, that's why conservatives are always voting "against their own interests", that's why they want to privatize everything, and that's why they consistently fail to win the popular vote. They turn to fascism because democracy has been delivering them pretty consistent L's for about as long as any of them have been alive.
The history of politics in this country has been almost entirely about maintaining a continuous wealth transfer of wealth from black folks to white folks. It was about de jure white supremacy until MLK, and de facto white supremacy until Obama. Now it's entirely about revenge, and you need to believe that they would literally rather rule the ashes than share in prosperity.
Yeah, they take a thing, like Reagan's limited government, and push it and push it until it becomes a parody of its self. At this point, they have no idea what the original objective was, only that government is bad and government doing things is communism.
My brother in r/politics, the point of Regan's "limited government" slogan was *entirely* about giving white folks a justification to dismantle any form of governance that might result in a net wealth transfer to poors and blacks instead of the other way around.
Why don’t the reporters ever ask the follow-up question and make these dumbasses explain what they think a republic is? Let them show the world they think that, because they’re republicans and like that the words sound the same. The sheer idiocy of these cretins should be the billboard for funding education in this country.
A Republic just means that the head of state is a civilian, not a monarch or active member of the military. The US is a republic and democracy, the UK is a democracy but not a republic. China is a republic, but not a democracy. For some reason, these people think that they will be the elite in a non-democratic republic (or even a monarchy) and will be protected by the law yet unbound by it. By the time they realise that they are not, it will be too late.
Trump supporters aren't really capable of understanding complex ideas. It's why their "leaders" as it were need to dumb things way down into small, bite-sized ideas. "Build the Wall" is a perfect example.
A few of my favorite laughable catchphrases were:
"Lock Her Up!"
"Send Them Back!"
"Stop The Count!"
(Until Trump was losing and they changed it to:) "Count The Votes!"
Whenever someone tells me "we're a republic, not a democracy, there's a difference." I usually insist that they explain the difference. If I'm feeling extra spicy, I'll reply "I'm not wearing pants, I'm wearing jeans, there's a difference."
I don’t know why you singled out white males, some of the most die-hard and aggressive republicans I’ve ever met were women. I’ll give you that they were definitely white though
Between the definitions of a Republic and a Democracy, there seems to be a lot of overlap:
Republic: "A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."
Democracy: "A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives."
It’s fascinating really and I’m not entirely sure what the difference is.
See these two Wikipedia pages describing the US as a democracy and as a presidential republic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Types_of_governmental_democracies
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#Head_of_state
> Democracy has taken a number of forms, both in theory and practice. Some varieties of democracy provide better representation and more freedom for their citizens than others.[179][180] However, if any democracy is not structured to prohibit the government from excluding the people from the legislative process, or any branch of government from altering the separation of powers in its favour, then a branch of the system can accumulate too much power and destroy the democracy.
to be fair this is an education issue more than any thing our educations standards through out the US has not been good I remember taking a 15 mins out of a social studies class to go over the different political idea was and what each one was sadly it hit republic, fascism and last 30sec in a brief passing socialism (only because ppl were asking about how some thing worked) so yeah the rest of social studies was just a long a boring slide show of ppl doing "great" deeds they even threw in Jesus I know a few names of major leaders but what their ideas where and why they fought or did what they did was not mentioned
and to expect to an 18 year old to go down and vote on the next leader based on Propaganda alone is dangerous
I wish we'd stop coddling these people like they're just too stupid to not want a white supremacist Christan dictatorship. They believe this stuff because they think it benefits them in some way and would like it that way.
Hey a Christian theocracy would benefit them greatly in that case and accomplish a lot of things they want to see happen. Sounds like something they'd logically desire
They may be religious, but their politics and values are specifically un-Christian. I don't know what religion they follow, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the teachings of Jesus
>The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.
The United States is a constitutional republic. All constitutional republics are BY DEFINITION democracies. Not all democracies are constitutional republics.
And we have preached the principles of democracy as being the key to America's greatness for decades. We fought wars over pushing democracy onto "evil communists".
But suddenly democracy is fine to discard because it is the only way for them to perpetuate their tyranny of the minority?
They don’t believe that they’ll be cast into the gutter once their votes aren’t needed anymore. Trump already said he doesn’t care about them, just their votes.
Idk how one can be anything but delusional to support the guy in the first place. Maybe if they were a complete ignoramus the first go around, but anymore?
No excuses.
They're either delusional, malicious, or both. (And the ones that are *only* malicious are people making millions sof dollars off this and securing their seats of power. No average voter has any gain from this shit, theure just idiots who are also probably bigoted and spiteful assholes)
No, they just think they'll be better off than those they hate and that's good enough. To them, nothing is more important than owning the libs and feeling superior to minorities.
> 2300 years of political development from the Greeks to the Romans to today have been thrown into the dustbin of Trumpist.
It's not like that was an entirely linear process. We're just in one of the setback periods.
Maybe.
Every generation fights this same fight between the ignorant, gullible, cowardly "conservatives" who are irrationally afraid of anything new or different and curious, open-minded, educated "progressives" who like to evaluate new things to see if they are a useful step forward or not.
"Socrates was a polarizing figure in Athenian society. In 399 BC, he was accused of impiety and corrupting the youth. After a trial that lasted a day, he was sentenced to death."
They're conservatives. Enlightenment thought that the US was founded in is an anathema to them. They're ultranationalist monarchists, which is just fascism.
The word democracy comes from the Greek word demokratia.
Demos means "people," and kratia means "rule."
So the word democracy means a government where the power comes from the citizens, not by virtue of noble birth or because someone has seized it by force.
The concept of democracy does not = Democractic Party
It does not mean alignment with left-leaning viewpoints.
It means power that comes from the people.
There are some members of Congress who don't
understand this and go on TV and say otherwise. Now you are less ignorant than them.
A Republic is a structure of government. A Constitutional Republic, by definition, uses representative democracy.
This means citizens elect officials to represent their interests and make laws and policies on their behalf.
We do have some direct democracy, in the form of things like ballot initiatives. But we mainly use representative democracy in the United States.
The United States is both a democracy and a republic.
Anyone who says otherwise is either operating from a place of ignorance and should not be trying to educate on government, or they are intentionally trying to mislead and should not be trying to educate on government.
If we don't have democracy, we have
authoritarianism. Democracy is flawed. But it's the best we have. It is fragile, and we must protect it.
We have to care about the principles of democracy more than we care about political parties.
We have to care more about the principles of democracy more than we care about candidate preferences.
Because without democracy, we have nothing.
Principle over party. Now and forever.
All these people do is parrot what they hear. And the people they hear it from never actually go beyond saying "America is not a democracy; It's a republic". Ask them to actually explain it, and they can't. They have no idea what they're actually repeating.
The interviewer even does this, to those two women, and they're completely stumped. They have no idea what these two words mean. She just tries to make stuff up that sounds like it makes sense in the moment.
And author being interviewed points out why: If people can be convinced that America isn't a democracy, then attacks on democracy aren't a bad thing. Attacking it then is actually a good thing because then it's fighting against this thing that the "other side" is trying to turn this country into. Trump attacking democracy is then easily re-framed as trying to protect America.
tOyOtA cAnT bE iN nAsCaR!
Checks internet, oh wait it's the only competing car made here. (at the time, I don't follow most things involving going in circles)
don't need to bother watching, I seen this song and dance play out many times. they think it's important that only the correct people vote, and somehow have deluded themselves into thinking their masters will include them on the list.
final word that needs to be said is a republic is a type of democracy, not the opposite of each other.
Obtaining power and wealth over others must feel very shallow at its core or people would not crave more of it like a drug. It makes you wonder what is capable of providing true satisfaction in life.
The absolute *freeze* when this guy asks those two women "what's the difference" between a Republic and a Democracy. Their brains enter a *hang* for a moment, it is agonizing to watch. If you read Mike Lee's asinine editorial or listen to Mike Johnson at length, they'll offer rationales or minutiae to explain why it's just different and why somehow Republicans always win in a Republic, but it's not a Republic if Democrats win the same way. These people can't even *pretend*. They're just echoing a massive talking point as a stand-in for "it's not legitimate if I don't vote for it."
I doubt the idiotic Trump supporters know the history of the phrase, but calling the USA a "republic not a democracy" is an old racist dog whistle from Jim Crow.
*As part of Talmadge's 1956 Senate campaign,*[*^(\[18\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge#cite_note-18) *he published the infamous segregationist pamphlet You and Segregation,*[*^(\[19\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge#cite_note-19) *arguing that desegregation was a communist plot, that the use of federal power to ban segregation was unconstitutional, and that, in the now-infamous phrase, the United States was a "Republic not a Democracy", since democracy was communist.*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman\_Talmadge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge)
His page has a link to a scan of the actual pamphlet if anyone wants to read it.
Thank you for this. I commented upthread that I've been hearing the phrase for over a decade (and longer), and couldn't remember where it may have originated (and was feeling too lazy to look it up).
Remind them USA is a constitutional Republic and they will look at you with those dead eyes, uncomprehending ignorant and oblivious of reality. Sadly these folks have been taught of late by echo chambers and addiction to social media that their bent vision is real, but the truth is some facts are not malleable. The elections in many countries on Earth are suspect, but in the USA, there is an integrity to the electoral process that aside from the debacle in Florida that gave us the war criminal Bush II, has never been legitimately called into question. These are dangerously dumb people who don’t care about being dumb or wrong.
Democracy and republic are essentially interchangeable terms at least for laypeople. If someone wants to dispute that and try to make the case that they’re meaningfully different terms they should at least actually have an argument. I know that people can feel put on the spot and off guard in a televised conversation, but damn, it seems like they have absolutely nothing to back up their opinions with.
And they will be the ones to scream the loudest when their brand new dictatorship takes away their guns or privatizes their interstate highways or makes them pay to educate their children in the new “American Academy” or arrests their newly out of the closet gay son… and they have no recourse to protest their government.
Y'all are overthinking this. "Democracy" sounds like "Democrat" so that's bad. "Republic" sounds like "Republican" so that's good. That is as deep as the MAGA logic goes
How would a "Republic" fairly and ethically chose leaders without democracy? I guess whomever is the richest, most powerful guy in town gets to be lord of the kingdom forever.
Wait wait, I like the game they play in the video:
Trump-fucks, what's the difference between a democracy and republic?
Quote: *A democracy is government controlled. I don't see freedom in democracy. I see freedom in the republic*
- White privilege making up for an utter disdain of education
At the 1:55 point, the Trump supporter stammers her way to a non answer on "What's the difference between a democracy and a republic?"
She has no idea, she just knows (maybe subconsciously) that Republics are good because she's a Republican and democracies are bad because Democrats are bad. I seriously think these people are that simple.
Then if you look at even a simple answer for each thing : democracy is popular vote takes the cake, republics have representative figures 'for the people'.
So yes, we have both in the US, democracy via district/city or state elects the representatives and those representatives make up the republic. But the representation can be heavily skewed to favor lower populations. When 8 million people are capped at 2 senators and another 2 senators can be representing 1 million people, it dilutes the voice of the 8 million. Then you add in gerrymandering (which no surprise here, Republicans have significantly benefited from), you've got yet another layer of non-equal representation.
Therein lies the problem claiming to be a Republic and not a Democracy - you're forfeiting your right to elect the representatives in the government. These people really should not vote.
Of course you don't want democracy if your ideas are wildly unpopular, you want to cram your unpopular ideas on the country via a skewed Republic.
They should just move to Texas then im sure its a great place to live for these idiots especially after we cut it off from any and all federal support and facilities.
I'm always amazed to see these same lines pop up every time despite all the easily available information that explains why they are meaningless. The founding fathers didn't keep us from being a "democracy". They kept us from being a "pure democracy at all levels of government".
And some of the specific systems they designed have stopped working over time due to other decisions they didn't plan for, like restricting the size of the House, and means that even the level of democracy they wanted is no longer realized.
So they're using inaccurate semantic arguments to defend a modern system that the founding fathers wouldn't even support based on a holistic analysis of their philosophy. Nor does it align with decades of the US preaching the principles of democracy to the world and trying to force it on some countries at gunpoint.
These white people just can’t handle being a political, and potentially a demographic, minority, like what much the rest of the country has to live with. Such snowflakes. Instead of accepting compromise and adapting and fitting in, they opt for authoritarianism to force their way onto people.
> The only forms of government are, the democratical, the aristocratical, the monarchical, and what is now called the representative. What is called a republic is not any particular form of government. It is wholly characteristical of the purport, matter or object for which government ought to be instituted, and on which it is to be employed, RES-PUBLICA, the public affairs, or the public good; or, literally translated, the public thing... Every government that does not act on the principle of a Republic, or in other words, that does not make the res-publica its whole and sole object, is not a good government. Republican government is no other than government established and conducted for the interest of the public, as well individually as collectively. It is not necessarily connected with any particular form, but it most naturally associates with the representative form, as being best calculated to secure the end for which a nation is at the expense of supporting it.
—Thomas Paine (Rights of Man, part 2)
> ... governments are republican only in proportion as they embody the will of their people, and execute it.
—Thomas Jefferson (a letter to Samuel Kercheval, 1816)
We saw this "we're not a democracy, we're a republic" line sneaking into the conversation with more frequency a few years ago. I believe it's an argument that has been built up in order to smooth less democratic changes in areas around representation and voting that the GOP would prefer to see in the future.
The facts are that whether you think you a republic, a constitutional republic, a representative republic or a representitve democracy that all of them are underpinned by democratic principles and set up in a way
where the words republic and democracy are interchangeable when they follow the word representative.
I don’t care what they think anymore. Their morals and ethics are compromised.
Hot tip. If you ever want anyone to believe anything you say, don’t support Trumps.
The only reason these cretins can own guns-is because we are a democracy. In a dictatorship, once the dictator solidifies his power base, the main threat to him is people with guns. So, guns, all guns, are confiscated.
I mean, technically, they aren't wrong, the US is a Federal Republic, it's very different from a Democracy.
By definition, a Republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution.
A Democracy is a government that is ruled according to the will of the peoples.
Also, the National Anthem actually specify that the US is a Republic.
These people don't realize that disbanding the USA makes it up for grabs by the rest of the world. At some point we'll become free real estate, instead of an ally.
We are a republic because power is with the people and their elected representatives. We are a Democracy because the majority or plurality is the winner. Not the loser, like Trump.
They are happy to scrap democracy to control the other side with their rules. But the real question is if they are also ok with the roles reversed and being controlled by their rules.
For the record, The United States of America is first and foremost a republic. It employs democratic principles in most elections.
This is the classic confusion of the colonials. They think that liberty in the US means "do what you want when you want" and that the USA is a "democracy" like ancient Greece (ie absolute democracy), which it IS most definitively NOT.
Thick as bricks
The constitution was drafted to empower the government based on the principles of democracy, the bill of rights was drafted to reign in the powers of government based on a the ideas of a republic. Many of the framers of the constitution believed in the republic, as James Madison is quoted saying that the rights of the opulent need to be protected against the tyranny of the majority.
Trump supporters aren’t wrong in this assertion. Especially since money has worked its way squarely into every step of the political process and is considered speech. The empowerment of selfish thinking has been a priority in the U.S. for decades, and we’re always getting more and more selfish. Democrats and those who believe in democracy, aren’t on board with that, and it’s to their detriment. You will lose every time.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administered; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, **and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.**" - Benjamin Franklin - Closing Speech at the Constitutional Convention (1787)
Grim reminder
The Founders were all Classicists. Lifelong students of Greek & Rome. And both of those ancient Democracies ended in Despotism. That descent into despotism is one of the major threads of thought in the Publius letters in the Federalist papers, and the underpinning logic as to why the Founders came up with the three equal branches of government - and our founding as a representative democracy as opposed to pure democracy.
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The framers definitely read Plato’s Republic, who believed all democracy eventually ends in Populist Dictatorship
Then they should be ok with president Biden canceling the upcoming election and just staying in power I guess.
Honestly, I'm curious what would happen if Biden brought that up during the debates. "You want Trump to have all this power if elected, but I'm elected right now. So does that mean I get that same power you want him to have? So why don't I just cancel the election, lock *him* up and keep going? Because I prefer democracy and you having the right to vote, the right to elect who you choose, and the freedom of the people whether you're on that side of the aisle or my side of it. That's what America is and should always be." Or something better written to the same effect. Would they conveniently edit out the rest and just leave the "cancel the election" part to blast across right wing media without full context like they did the "pants shitting" video? Or would some of the people actually listen to what he just said and *maybe* realize giving *any* President that level of power is fucking beyond stupid because that means they *all* have it.
They will take the sound bites and will ignore everything else
Just use more complex words and separate them a bit to prevent soundbites that a first grader can understand.
As a video editor, if he talked really fast it would make cutting the bites a bit tougher. Unfortunately that’s not joes strong suit lol
Tbf, when you're doing public speaking especially into a microphone, aren't you supposed to speak a bit more slowly? To help with reverb and making sure people can catch what you're saying?
[SUPER SLOWMO ZOOMED IN ON BIDEN'S EYES. SLOWMO RENDERS VOICE DEMONIC] *why don't I just cancel the election, lock him up and keep going?*
Dark Brandon to the rescue!
They’ll do that anyway
You’re appealing to logic. These people are emotional dipshits. They won’t follow. The only thing is they’ll double down on their idiocracy
Well, Trump should be locked up for the duration of the insurrection. The election can and should happen, but the law already allows enemies of the Constitution to be held without trial like any other prisoner of war.
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1. Biden should invoke the Militia, Insurrection and Enforcement Acts in any combination needed to oppose the insurrection, without trial, as the law allows. 2. Felony charges should be brought for EVERYONE this time. No more letting the Jeff Davis’ walk free.
Of course not -- obviously the 2020 election was stolen, so Biden goes to jail and Trump is president for life under the new constitution that Trump ad-libs during a 45-minute rant ratified by the SC
"Electric sharks, using windmills, will rig the election! My uncle went to MIT! The nucular!"
You forgot to include Taylor Swift. She's somehow involved too
There are MAGA subversives who actually think they can roll the dice and have better chances of winning in a fascist civil war played out in street brawls than in the election. They're trying to invent and propagandize scenarios to justify their fantasies. Some of them like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are thankfully in prison for sedition.
No No No you are taking it out of context LOL.
He says it like it is! Except that, and that, and *that* was taken out of context, and he really didnt mean *that*!
Fake News. LOL GOP guys in Wisconsin are having to clean up another mess. Same bullshit. "Nu Uhhh" is pretty much the line they are standing behind. SMFH its truly insane.
[https://newrepublic.com/post/182688/trump-trashes-milwaukee](https://newrepublic.com/post/182688/trump-trashes-milwaukee)
These people are square peg, round hole. They would respond that Trump is really the current president so whatever Biden tries is invalid
Makes perfect sense if you have no idea what a Democratic Republic is. Much like their complete misunderstanding of Socialisms or the 1st Amendment, vaccines, or how the court system works .. or really fucking anything in general. Most oblivious people in history
"I love the poorly educated." - Trump 2016
“I don’t care about you, I care about your vote.” - Trump 2024
He said the quiet part out loud yet again
Im more concerned about the stuff they aren’t yet saying since what they’re saying out loud is the stuff you and I would consider “the quiet part”.
It comes down to — at least for a large number of these people — to a weird, twisted version of semantics. They believe that as “Republicans” they are for a republic, whereas that means they are against a “democracy” because that’s what the “Democrats” favor. That’s their logic. They understand that people vote for their government, they just don’t like the word “democracy” because they associate it with “Democrat”. I am not joking. I worked with a guy who believed this and would try to show me “evidence” of this. He is a fucking moron who has had too many head injuries.
Yeah, That is the same reasoning behind their assertions that Nazis were liberals because "National Socialisms". Or the most liberal Joseph Stalin.
Aah the classic “Nazis were actually socialist” idiocy.
Nazis were liberal with all their “forced diversity” and “woke” political agendas….
They must really hate the Swedish Democrats
One time I told my dad I like Bernie Sanders and he went off how he was such a socialist and tried convincing me that the biggest socialist to ever live was Hitler. Which is made even sadder by the fact his own father fought in WWII.
Was he aware that the Nazis threw Communists into the concentration camps too? They were the ones wearing the red star. Not all Holocaust victims were Jewish.
Or the old gem that the democrats were the slavers in the US civil war
I mean, the Democratic party in the South at that time was largely the pro-slavery party, and the Republicans were the (relatively) progressive, anti-slavery party of that time. Don't forget that one of the most famous progressive politicians, Teddy Roosevelt, was a Republican. Unfortunately, the present GOP wants to ignore the last 160 years of history and pretend that the civil rights movement didn't result in the racists moving to the GOP.
Right, that second paragraph is the point that anyone who uses the "democrats were the slavers" argument ignores. It's intentionally dishonest
"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
"8 year olds, Dude."
“Am I the only one who gives a shit about the rules?”
And Republicans taking credit for emancipating blacks, even though the racists at that time were all Democrats and switched sides when LBJ pushed civil rights legislation through.
They also use it to justify the EC, Senate, and gerrymandering. Fair voting is for democracies. Republics are allowed biased structures according to them. When I point out many self proclaimed republics like France, Germany, etc look way more like what they call democracies it ends the conversation.
I believe you! Another thing that's painfully true is that after Trump entered politics, he single-handedly confirmed that America is full of ignorant and utterly stupid voters. Voting is a constitutional right. The only condition is we register. Regardless of whether we're dumb or smart, we can still vote for a candidate who's a finger-fucking rapist, a traitor, a lifelong criminal, and a convicted felon.
all because the last guy had the nerve to be black
Yup. For me one of the most demoralizing things about Trump's victory was the fact that he was in a very real way representative of the true nature of our country.
sovereign citizen wackos use similar non-logic
This is the answer, there is literally nothing more to it than that.
I think that may be the extent of it for some people, but it's quite clear that the reason people are saying it more in recent years is that it's a response to criticism of antidemocratic conduct by Republicans in recent years. It's the "life's not fair" of American civics. I.e.., if some prick does something really unfair, and someone points out that it's unfair, the prick says "life's not fair." Likewise, when Republicans do something deeply undemocratic, and critics point out that it's deeply undemocratic, Republicans say "America's not a democracy." I think this is important to keep in mind because I think for many of these people it really is just a rhetorical device to be deployed for that purpose, not a real perspective that informs their views in a consistent way--even a dumb perspective that is consistent with stupid views. It doesn't remain a meaningful part of their worldview when it's not giving them moral permission to dominate others. When Democrats obtain power and use it to advance their agenda, the same Republicans who are eager to shout "America's not a democracy!" when their leaders are being undemocratic will very promptly resort to populist language about "we the people," and they're very eager to claim that the majority of Americans are on their side. For many of these people, "America's not a democracy" is just an excuse for Republicans (and only Republicans) to pursue power by undemocratic means.
>too many head injuries. ...or not enough?
Sadly you’re correct. It really is that level of stupid.
Sadly I think you’re right.
💯 Just ask any of them to continue the "We the people..." line they have plastered on their cars, or even tattooed on their bodies. That's very often where it ends. Or, ask them about *any* amendment beyond the first two, and watch those rusty gears struggling to turn.
For their convenience, here's a link to the full US Constitution as amended. https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/full-text Search this text for the word "republic" and you'll see it exactly once, referring only to state governments. Search it for the phrase "the people" and you'll see it nine, count 'em, nine times.
I always end up singing it, thanks to Schoolhouse Rock.
This reminds me of an event that happened to me in high school. I'm Canadian, but went to high school in the US. In order to graduate everyone has to take a civics class and pass a final exam. A few days later the teacher gets up in front of the class and says "I am ashamed of every single one of you. The only person in this class to get 100% is the only person in this class that isn't American." I loved that teacher 😂.
You have got to understand, they aren't stupid. They just don't \*want\* nice things unless they can also have white supremacy. **If black folks have equal access to public stuff, all having nice things does is make majority white populations have to subsidize poor blacks instead of the other way around.** That's why red states try to fuck over cities, that's why conservatives are always voting "against their own interests", that's why they want to privatize everything, and that's why they consistently fail to win the popular vote. They turn to fascism because democracy has been delivering them pretty consistent L's for about as long as any of them have been alive. The history of politics in this country has been almost entirely about maintaining a continuous wealth transfer of wealth from black folks to white folks. It was about de jure white supremacy until MLK, and de facto white supremacy until Obama. Now it's entirely about revenge, and you need to believe that they would literally rather rule the ashes than share in prosperity.
Yeah, they take a thing, like Reagan's limited government, and push it and push it until it becomes a parody of its self. At this point, they have no idea what the original objective was, only that government is bad and government doing things is communism.
My brother in r/politics, the point of Regan's "limited government" slogan was *entirely* about giving white folks a justification to dismantle any form of governance that might result in a net wealth transfer to poors and blacks instead of the other way around.
"Socialism" means having to potentially wait in line behind someone they feel shouldn't be ahead of them.
Was there, can confirm.
Why don’t the reporters ever ask the follow-up question and make these dumbasses explain what they think a republic is? Let them show the world they think that, because they’re republicans and like that the words sound the same. The sheer idiocy of these cretins should be the billboard for funding education in this country.
Check out James O'Brien from LBC UK. Amazing pushback. It is UK politics, but he really shows how to do it
A Republic just means that the head of state is a civilian, not a monarch or active member of the military. The US is a republic and democracy, the UK is a democracy but not a republic. China is a republic, but not a democracy. For some reason, these people think that they will be the elite in a non-democratic republic (or even a monarchy) and will be protected by the law yet unbound by it. By the time they realise that they are not, it will be too late.
Trump supporters on Medicare should thank Democrats for it
If they could read they would be very upset.
Trump supporters aren't really capable of understanding complex ideas. It's why their "leaders" as it were need to dumb things way down into small, bite-sized ideas. "Build the Wall" is a perfect example.
A few of my favorite laughable catchphrases were: "Lock Her Up!" "Send Them Back!" "Stop The Count!" (Until Trump was losing and they changed it to:) "Count The Votes!"
Actually it “count the vote” and “stop the count” were happing simultaneously, depending on where he was winning/losing
Whenever someone tells me "we're a republic, not a democracy, there's a difference." I usually insist that they explain the difference. If I'm feeling extra spicy, I'll reply "I'm not wearing pants, I'm wearing jeans, there's a difference."
They know, they also know that white males are not a majority so they are against “mob rule” or democracy
I don’t know why you singled out white males, some of the most die-hard and aggressive republicans I’ve ever met were women. I’ll give you that they were definitely white though
Some are dumb enough to fall for the simple "branding" aspect of it, but the people in charge fully embrace being anti-democratic.
Their heads would explode if they were to learn the US is also a liberal democracy.
Scary dumb.
Party of bumper stickers.
Between the definitions of a Republic and a Democracy, there seems to be a lot of overlap: Republic: "A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch." Democracy: "A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives." It’s fascinating really and I’m not entirely sure what the difference is.
They can be used interchangeably in the us
Somebody should replace all those bibles in motels and hotels with a dictionary.
See these two Wikipedia pages describing the US as a democracy and as a presidential republic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Types_of_governmental_democracies and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#Head_of_state > Democracy has taken a number of forms, both in theory and practice. Some varieties of democracy provide better representation and more freedom for their citizens than others.[179][180] However, if any democracy is not structured to prohibit the government from excluding the people from the legislative process, or any branch of government from altering the separation of powers in its favour, then a branch of the system can accumulate too much power and destroy the democracy.
to be fair this is an education issue more than any thing our educations standards through out the US has not been good I remember taking a 15 mins out of a social studies class to go over the different political idea was and what each one was sadly it hit republic, fascism and last 30sec in a brief passing socialism (only because ppl were asking about how some thing worked) so yeah the rest of social studies was just a long a boring slide show of ppl doing "great" deeds they even threw in Jesus I know a few names of major leaders but what their ideas where and why they fought or did what they did was not mentioned and to expect to an 18 year old to go down and vote on the next leader based on Propaganda alone is dangerous
I wish we'd stop coddling these people like they're just too stupid to not want a white supremacist Christan dictatorship. They believe this stuff because they think it benefits them in some way and would like it that way.
Or they are just bigoted and / religiously indoctrinated
Hey a Christian theocracy would benefit them greatly in that case and accomplish a lot of things they want to see happen. Sounds like something they'd logically desire
They may be religious, but their politics and values are specifically un-Christian. I don't know what religion they follow, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the teachings of Jesus
Or they're stupid ***and*** believe this will benefit them, but I agree we should stop coddling them.
>The Constitution establishes a federal democratic republic form of government. That is, we have an indivisible union of 50 sovereign States. It is a democracy because people govern themselves. It is representative because people choose elected officials by free and secret ballot.
Yea it’s a democratic republic, but the democracy part is what defines the republic.
The United States is a constitutional republic. All constitutional republics are BY DEFINITION democracies. Not all democracies are constitutional republics.
And we have preached the principles of democracy as being the key to America's greatness for decades. We fought wars over pushing democracy onto "evil communists". But suddenly democracy is fine to discard because it is the only way for them to perpetuate their tyranny of the minority?
They want a dictatorial republic so bad.
They are delusional if they think that they will be safe in an autocracy.
They don’t believe that they’ll be cast into the gutter once their votes aren’t needed anymore. Trump already said he doesn’t care about them, just their votes.
And it's on video!
Idk how one can be anything but delusional to support the guy in the first place. Maybe if they were a complete ignoramus the first go around, but anymore? No excuses. They're either delusional, malicious, or both. (And the ones that are *only* malicious are people making millions sof dollars off this and securing their seats of power. No average voter has any gain from this shit, theure just idiots who are also probably bigoted and spiteful assholes)
No, they just think they'll be better off than those they hate and that's good enough. To them, nothing is more important than owning the libs and feeling superior to minorities.
What a way to live!
2300 years of political development from the Greeks to the Romans to today have been thrown into the dustbin of Trumpist. What geniuses.
> 2300 years of political development from the Greeks to the Romans to today have been thrown into the dustbin of Trumpist. It's not like that was an entirely linear process. We're just in one of the setback periods. Maybe.
Every generation fights this same fight between the ignorant, gullible, cowardly "conservatives" who are irrationally afraid of anything new or different and curious, open-minded, educated "progressives" who like to evaluate new things to see if they are a useful step forward or not.
"Socrates was a polarizing figure in Athenian society. In 399 BC, he was accused of impiety and corrupting the youth. After a trial that lasted a day, he was sentenced to death."
Hopefully not as long as the Middle Ages.
They're conservatives. Enlightenment thought that the US was founded in is an anathema to them. They're ultranationalist monarchists, which is just fascism.
The word democracy comes from the Greek word demokratia. Demos means "people," and kratia means "rule." So the word democracy means a government where the power comes from the citizens, not by virtue of noble birth or because someone has seized it by force. The concept of democracy does not = Democractic Party It does not mean alignment with left-leaning viewpoints. It means power that comes from the people. There are some members of Congress who don't understand this and go on TV and say otherwise. Now you are less ignorant than them. A Republic is a structure of government. A Constitutional Republic, by definition, uses representative democracy. This means citizens elect officials to represent their interests and make laws and policies on their behalf. We do have some direct democracy, in the form of things like ballot initiatives. But we mainly use representative democracy in the United States. The United States is both a democracy and a republic. Anyone who says otherwise is either operating from a place of ignorance and should not be trying to educate on government, or they are intentionally trying to mislead and should not be trying to educate on government. If we don't have democracy, we have authoritarianism. Democracy is flawed. But it's the best we have. It is fragile, and we must protect it. We have to care about the principles of democracy more than we care about political parties. We have to care more about the principles of democracy more than we care about candidate preferences. Because without democracy, we have nothing. Principle over party. Now and forever.
All these people do is parrot what they hear. And the people they hear it from never actually go beyond saying "America is not a democracy; It's a republic". Ask them to actually explain it, and they can't. They have no idea what they're actually repeating. The interviewer even does this, to those two women, and they're completely stumped. They have no idea what these two words mean. She just tries to make stuff up that sounds like it makes sense in the moment. And author being interviewed points out why: If people can be convinced that America isn't a democracy, then attacks on democracy aren't a bad thing. Attacking it then is actually a good thing because then it's fighting against this thing that the "other side" is trying to turn this country into. Trump attacking democracy is then easily re-framed as trying to protect America.
She even stood still until he pressed that question then she started walking and needed to think about it.
Tell me what to do daddy. With a Don't Tread on Me sticker on their Toyota pickup because they are real Americans.
To be fair, Toyota makes more cars in America than other manufacturers. Edit: they were until 2023 when they got beat by GM.
tOyOtA cAnT bE iN nAsCaR! Checks internet, oh wait it's the only competing car made here. (at the time, I don't follow most things involving going in circles)
Why do hate circles?
don't need to bother watching, I seen this song and dance play out many times. they think it's important that only the correct people vote, and somehow have deluded themselves into thinking their masters will include them on the list. final word that needs to be said is a republic is a type of democracy, not the opposite of each other.
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Obtaining power and wealth over others must feel very shallow at its core or people would not crave more of it like a drug. It makes you wonder what is capable of providing true satisfaction in life.
The absolute *freeze* when this guy asks those two women "what's the difference" between a Republic and a Democracy. Their brains enter a *hang* for a moment, it is agonizing to watch. If you read Mike Lee's asinine editorial or listen to Mike Johnson at length, they'll offer rationales or minutiae to explain why it's just different and why somehow Republicans always win in a Republic, but it's not a Republic if Democrats win the same way. These people can't even *pretend*. They're just echoing a massive talking point as a stand-in for "it's not legitimate if I don't vote for it."
I doubt the idiotic Trump supporters know the history of the phrase, but calling the USA a "republic not a democracy" is an old racist dog whistle from Jim Crow. *As part of Talmadge's 1956 Senate campaign,*[*^(\[18\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge#cite_note-18) *he published the infamous segregationist pamphlet You and Segregation,*[*^(\[19\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge#cite_note-19) *arguing that desegregation was a communist plot, that the use of federal power to ban segregation was unconstitutional, and that, in the now-infamous phrase, the United States was a "Republic not a Democracy", since democracy was communist.* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman\_Talmadge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Talmadge) His page has a link to a scan of the actual pamphlet if anyone wants to read it.
Ugh.
Thank you for this. I commented upthread that I've been hearing the phrase for over a decade (and longer), and couldn't remember where it may have originated (and was feeling too lazy to look it up).
Over and over and over and over republisimps demonstrate their absolute lack of critical thinking and common sense. The DUMBEST horde ever assembled.
Uneducated morons. They should be ousted from society
Ok good, then don't vote.
Remind them USA is a constitutional Republic and they will look at you with those dead eyes, uncomprehending ignorant and oblivious of reality. Sadly these folks have been taught of late by echo chambers and addiction to social media that their bent vision is real, but the truth is some facts are not malleable. The elections in many countries on Earth are suspect, but in the USA, there is an integrity to the electoral process that aside from the debacle in Florida that gave us the war criminal Bush II, has never been legitimately called into question. These are dangerously dumb people who don’t care about being dumb or wrong.
Painfully uneducated MAGA. Time to get their passports to Russia
Failure of education.
It's not a cult.
Democracy and republic are essentially interchangeable terms at least for laypeople. If someone wants to dispute that and try to make the case that they’re meaningfully different terms they should at least actually have an argument. I know that people can feel put on the spot and off guard in a televised conversation, but damn, it seems like they have absolutely nothing to back up their opinions with.
And they will be the ones to scream the loudest when their brand new dictatorship takes away their guns or privatizes their interstate highways or makes them pay to educate their children in the new “American Academy” or arrests their newly out of the closet gay son… and they have no recourse to protest their government.
Democracy is a system, a Republic is the result of that system. They just don't like the word.
Then they should stay home on November 5th.
A representative republic is a form of democracy.
Y'all are overthinking this. "Democracy" sounds like "Democrat" so that's bad. "Republic" sounds like "Republican" so that's good. That is as deep as the MAGA logic goes
Good. So we don't have to listen to people like you. 8)
Democracy doesn't work for them anymore since they're in the minority.
Unless Trump doesn't win then they'll say otherwise
How would a "Republic" fairly and ethically chose leaders without democracy? I guess whomever is the richest, most powerful guy in town gets to be lord of the kingdom forever.
Wait wait, I like the game they play in the video: Trump-fucks, what's the difference between a democracy and republic? Quote: *A democracy is government controlled. I don't see freedom in democracy. I see freedom in the republic* - White privilege making up for an utter disdain of education
Conservatives have been reminding people that "we're a Republic" for a while in order to try and argue that Democracy isn't good.
They're ok with it because they want everything to be their way or nothing at all.
I must be missing something here. The U.S. has always been a democratic republic, has it not?
Less and less democratic all the time. People like that are the cause. That's why they're okay with it.
If they don't want a voice, they should shut their mouths and abstain from voting
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Because democracy is for democrats right? We can’t have that!
The GOP is nothing but fucking losers and traitors. Let's send these assholes to a country without democracy and see how fast they fucking whine.
Well then by all means stop voting.
At the 1:55 point, the Trump supporter stammers her way to a non answer on "What's the difference between a democracy and a republic?" She has no idea, she just knows (maybe subconsciously) that Republics are good because she's a Republican and democracies are bad because Democrats are bad. I seriously think these people are that simple. Then if you look at even a simple answer for each thing : democracy is popular vote takes the cake, republics have representative figures 'for the people'. So yes, we have both in the US, democracy via district/city or state elects the representatives and those representatives make up the republic. But the representation can be heavily skewed to favor lower populations. When 8 million people are capped at 2 senators and another 2 senators can be representing 1 million people, it dilutes the voice of the 8 million. Then you add in gerrymandering (which no surprise here, Republicans have significantly benefited from), you've got yet another layer of non-equal representation. Therein lies the problem claiming to be a Republic and not a Democracy - you're forfeiting your right to elect the representatives in the government. These people really should not vote. Of course you don't want democracy if your ideas are wildly unpopular, you want to cram your unpopular ideas on the country via a skewed Republic.
Maybe we should ship them off to a communist country for a bit to see if that changes their mind.
Yet when *Trump himself* uses the word "democracy" when talking about the USA, they don't correct him.
The thing is, anti-majoritarian elements of the US system of government are meant precisely to prevent someone like Donald Trump from taking power.
that worked out well
they explain why the majority of uneducated support trump. you can't fix dumber then dumb!!
Everytime we see these "inside trump country" pieces I am struck by just how goddamn DUMB these people are.
This is what you get when you are taught to be servile from the moment you are baptized
*cult members
Republicans have been saying this longer than Maga has been around.
They’re cool with it when it’s their guy. It’s all tyranny and gadsden flags when it’s not.
Then their opinions dont matter.
They want to turn America into a White Christian version of North Korea
That part of the pledge of allegiance, stuck with them. “…and to the republic for which it stands…”
They're fine with it as long as *their* guy is in charge. Democrats are in charge? "It's an evil dictatorship!!!"
The shame IMO, is trump will never answer for his disruption of the democratic process not in any legitimate way.
If it isn’t a Democracy, why even vote then?
They should just move to Texas then im sure its a great place to live for these idiots especially after we cut it off from any and all federal support and facilities.
I'm always amazed to see these same lines pop up every time despite all the easily available information that explains why they are meaningless. The founding fathers didn't keep us from being a "democracy". They kept us from being a "pure democracy at all levels of government". And some of the specific systems they designed have stopped working over time due to other decisions they didn't plan for, like restricting the size of the House, and means that even the level of democracy they wanted is no longer realized. So they're using inaccurate semantic arguments to defend a modern system that the founding fathers wouldn't even support based on a holistic analysis of their philosophy. Nor does it align with decades of the US preaching the principles of democracy to the world and trying to force it on some countries at gunpoint.
These white people just can’t handle being a political, and potentially a demographic, minority, like what much the rest of the country has to live with. Such snowflakes. Instead of accepting compromise and adapting and fitting in, they opt for authoritarianism to force their way onto people.
Don’t like Democracy? Get out.
Conservatives are deeply miserable and bad people
> The only forms of government are, the democratical, the aristocratical, the monarchical, and what is now called the representative. What is called a republic is not any particular form of government. It is wholly characteristical of the purport, matter or object for which government ought to be instituted, and on which it is to be employed, RES-PUBLICA, the public affairs, or the public good; or, literally translated, the public thing... Every government that does not act on the principle of a Republic, or in other words, that does not make the res-publica its whole and sole object, is not a good government. Republican government is no other than government established and conducted for the interest of the public, as well individually as collectively. It is not necessarily connected with any particular form, but it most naturally associates with the representative form, as being best calculated to secure the end for which a nation is at the expense of supporting it. —Thomas Paine (Rights of Man, part 2) > ... governments are republican only in proportion as they embody the will of their people, and execute it. —Thomas Jefferson (a letter to Samuel Kercheval, 1816)
We saw this "we're not a democracy, we're a republic" line sneaking into the conversation with more frequency a few years ago. I believe it's an argument that has been built up in order to smooth less democratic changes in areas around representation and voting that the GOP would prefer to see in the future. The facts are that whether you think you a republic, a constitutional republic, a representative republic or a representitve democracy that all of them are underpinned by democratic principles and set up in a way where the words republic and democracy are interchangeable when they follow the word representative.
We give too much oxygen to these people even though I’m severely entertained by them….
Ya know who else didn’t like democracy? Hitler’s supporters.
It's not a democracy, it's a republic is such a smooth brain take. It's like saying it's not ice cream, it's *vanilla* ice cream!
I don’t care what they think anymore. Their morals and ethics are compromised. Hot tip. If you ever want anyone to believe anything you say, don’t support Trumps.
The only reason these cretins can own guns-is because we are a democracy. In a dictatorship, once the dictator solidifies his power base, the main threat to him is people with guns. So, guns, all guns, are confiscated.
I mean, technically, they aren't wrong, the US is a Federal Republic, it's very different from a Democracy. By definition, a Republic is a representative form of government that is ruled according to a charter, or constitution. A Democracy is a government that is ruled according to the will of the peoples. Also, the National Anthem actually specify that the US is a Republic.
I love the dingdongs that see it all ending in a civil war… They are willing it along. Traitors
These people don't realize that disbanding the USA makes it up for grabs by the rest of the world. At some point we'll become free real estate, instead of an ally.
Technically we are a republic. I
Maybe because it’s true… we are a constitutional republic…
We are a republic because power is with the people and their elected representatives. We are a Democracy because the majority or plurality is the winner. Not the loser, like Trump.
I’m a liberal from California. We do not live in a democracy. If we did, two of our recent elections would not have been decided by minority vote.
They are happy to scrap democracy to control the other side with their rules. But the real question is if they are also ok with the roles reversed and being controlled by their rules.
Clueless. No idea where their freedom comes from
>I love the poorly educated.
For the record, The United States of America is first and foremost a republic. It employs democratic principles in most elections. This is the classic confusion of the colonials. They think that liberty in the US means "do what you want when you want" and that the USA is a "democracy" like ancient Greece (ie absolute democracy), which it IS most definitively NOT. Thick as bricks
Put em down, all of them!
We have democraticly elected leaders in our Constitutional Republic. Technically correct to say we are not a democracy.
The constitution was drafted to empower the government based on the principles of democracy, the bill of rights was drafted to reign in the powers of government based on a the ideas of a republic. Many of the framers of the constitution believed in the republic, as James Madison is quoted saying that the rights of the opulent need to be protected against the tyranny of the majority. Trump supporters aren’t wrong in this assertion. Especially since money has worked its way squarely into every step of the political process and is considered speech. The empowerment of selfish thinking has been a priority in the U.S. for decades, and we’re always getting more and more selfish. Democrats and those who believe in democracy, aren’t on board with that, and it’s to their detriment. You will lose every time.
He loves the poorly educated for a reason.