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The outcome of this election will determine the outcome of the war in Ukraine.
Putin has been clinging on in Ukraine, with the help of Republicans, waiting for Trump to get back in office so they can roll over Ukraine unopposed. If Biden wins again, I don't think Putin can hang on another 4 years and hope for a friendly candidate, and he knows it.
So expect misinformation to reach a new level as the fall gets closer, Putin absolutely depends on Trump winning and will throw every resource he has available at this election.
The tone sure changed from the 80 & 90s towards the Russians, then they were compromised. Now you have top GOP being told by Putin to fly to Russia on the 4th of July without question
I know you are joking but 1984 was an electric year for pop culture and i could totally get on board. Purple rain, born in the usa, stop making sense, ghostbusters, the terminator, this is spinal tap, etc, etc, etc.
It takes time to match the level of materiel support the US can offer, which is why Europe has mostly been covering Ukraine's financial needs instead.
Something we did see, though, during that period of Republican fuckery was several European countries begin talking about putting boots on the ground. Especially France, who are now suffering from a disinformation assault that's causing all sorts of upset.
> who are now suffering from a disinformation assault that's causing all sorts of upset.
This is one of the reasons Russia needs to crash and burn. The west doesn't take this threat seriously enough.
Not to mention, Russia the gas station is done for. Europe was it's main customer, and all of Europe is going to unilaterally keep boycotting it, especially after mass investment in additional import capacity between EU countries and pors.
In addition to what others said, it's not like they were sitting around doing nothing. Many countries have been bolstering their own defenses in case ukraine falls, as well as continuous training with ukraine and NATO allies. It's not a hard on/ off switch.
Lot of people here confused as to why American military aid is so important. Maybe they’ve forgotten
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/SM_share_of_world_military_expenditure_of_the_15_countries_with_the_highest_spending_in_2022.png
How much we spend on our military budget.
Imagine how much more powerful the US military would be if they weren’t crippled by corporate greed and bureaucracy. For example, sometimes a simple Bolt used to fix equipment is hundreds of dollars. Imagine if those prices were FAIR prices… the amount of sheer military industrial output would be 2x+ what it is today. The output America achieves with all that bullshit in the way is astounding.
As an American, I agree, but tbf afaik there are many other countries with pork and largesse in their military budgets. E.g. Russia itself famously has a matériel diversion problem, particularly in maintenance.
You’re absolutely correct and not trying to say otherwise. To be fair to the opposite side, though, this is the military. “Military grade / military precision” is a term for a reason and manufacturing parts to those specifications is not exactly the easiest or cheapest thing in the world. Again, a hammer shouldn’t cost $400 but if you require a hammer to have a 0.1% spec tolerance, it’s not going to cost $15, either.
Hammer is just an example.
I’ve seen it broken down by military analysts.
Europe has *little choice* whether to ensure Ukraine doesn’t fall. They have plenty of military hardware and manpower.
Then who helps the US when it’s F’d, only thing left is Russian China North Korea Warlords and Sultans?
This is an issue of humanity versus parasitic cancers wearing imported suits.
Yes, I agree.
I would say it’s a struggle between the ideologies of the Enlightenment versus Authoritarianism. It’s freedom and democracy versus dictatorship.
Same as WWII.
Yes, humanity versus parasitic cancers wearing imported suits, yet it is drastically different than WW2. The stakes are significantly higher for the entire species; the few will sacrifice us all to rule over the ashes.
> The outcome of this election will determine the outcome of the war in Ukraine.
I don't disagree that Trump will fuck it up but Ukraine can still win this war. They could win it NOW if the west would give permissions to strike into Russia.
Why can’t Europe step up and fill the gap? There are multiple nations in Europe not just one. France is still busy doing neocolonial crap for its corporate interests in Africa.
Because historically they invested less in defense and relief on fortress USA. It made sense when they were rebuilding after WWII. America had broad shoulders. Still do.
They’ve known about Russia since at least the Georgia invasion years ago more than 15 years ago. How long does it take to build more ammunition and aircraft?
What's really fun is that Russia and the (former) Wagner group are actively trying to undermine french relations in Africa in order to just replace them. Russia is literally taking gold from Africa to fund its war.
Calling Russia the world's second most powerful military is irrational tankism. By all meaningful measures they are a modest power.
Especially given they are, yet again, at a stalemate in Ukraine.
“Especially given they are, yet again, at a stalemate in Ukraine.” Yeah dude, Ukraine is doing that on its own. It totally isn’t getting billions from other nations. The US lost to fucking Vietnam and couldn’t get anything done in Korea. Of course, there were very good reasons for this, in the same way that there are reasons why Ukraine hasn’t lost yet.
Lol. Do you truly believe that Russia has a more poweful military than China?
Vietnam was half a world away and the US lost because they withdrew. Until that point the Vietcong were being pummled. North Korea was lost because the US did not want war with China. China entered the war because NK were getting smashed.
Ukraine recieves equipment as they are an aspirant to the world's most powerful alliance. Their soldiers are their own. They are next door to Russia.
If Russia were as powerful as China they would be at Poland's border by now.
That third day of the three day special military operation sure is taking awhile...
They immediately fell flat on their face and lost all their "elite" troops who had no support... you just wish they'd succeeded.
They revealed to the world that they are a tissue paper bear. Much to the horror of the tiger who is likely the same material...
The stakes in the election are life and death for Trump and Putin - that's why they are capable of anything to win. Trump needs to win to stay out of jail. Putin needs Trump to win to defeat Ukraine.
Conservatives around the world are succeeding in taking control of countries, and it's getting pretty scary. Canada is in the crosshairs too.
Ukraine is in SO much trouble if Trump wins, and what's to stop Putin from going after Georgia and maybe Latvia and Estonia after?
> what's to stop Putin from going after Georgia and maybe Latvia and Estonia after?
well the good news is that the war in ukraine has crippled the russian military for a decade. Putin's stated next target is poland, but even with an end to NATO he's gonna have to hold off on that for some time.
Well, I suppose Trump might prevent Putin from invading them if he orders the US to invade them for him. We'll just be a puppet extension of Russian oligarchs.
They will gain more control when climate change gets worse and we have tens of millions of climate refugees and people from hot countries start moving to cold countries and the people there will flip out and vote for anyone anti-immigration.
Why? Like, honest question, why would we want to leave NATO?
NATO has built one of the largest cooperative security agreements in history. It has essentially allowed and helped maintain global American military power projection at a fraction the cost of if we had to deal with every member country individually. And, essentially, the US dominates NATO policy for better or worse.
Not to mention that the mutual defense pact (Article 5) has only been invoked once in history - 9/11. Our allies came to our aid during our darkest times.
I don't even know where to start. I could write out a longer response but I don't have a lot of time rn so I'll write a few of my first thoughts.
NATO is not a defensive alliance. It was created explicitly to stop the spread of socialism in western Europe. NATO armed terrorists and interfered with elections in Italy, France, and Belgium, undermining democracy to push American interests on Europe. NATO is absolutely an arm of American imperialism. Many were killed through the terrorists that NATO armed through Operation GLADIO. And of course, there's the hundreds of thousands who were killed in Libya and Yugoslavia ( and NO, those countries being controlled by dictators does not make killing civilians justified or okay at all). Many former Nazis occupied NATO high command in the 50s. Germany joining 9 years after fucking doing the holocaust really should tell you everything you need to know about the kind of company being kept by NATO
In a nutshell:
>It has essentially allowed and helped maintain global American military power projection at a fraction the cost of if we had to deal with every member country individually. And, essentially, the US dominates NATO policy for better or worse.
100% correct. I have this insane belief that it's actually bad to violently impose our political and military objectives all over the world at the price of killing innocent people, and that's exactly what NATO does.
Ok but NATO already exists.
You're confusing not ever creating NATO with just summarily dismantling it decades into its existence, and the damage that that would do.
The chaos in its absence would be catastrophic. If you want to dismantle NATO you'd need to do it slowly, and carefully, with an eye on how to mitigate the consequences, like a bloodthirsty Russia gobbling up every state in its sphere of influence.
Your take is impossibly juvenile, and simply ripping down NATO would result in an incalculable loss of life and disruption for numerous sovereign nations.
Yeah NATO exists and has nuclear weapons. Nuclear confrontation needs to be avoided at all costs, no exceptions. I personally don't think Russia would invade Poland or whatever after they're done with Ukraine, but even if they did I wouldn't want to be bound to a treaty which may drag us into nuclear war.
If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone. But when people on the left say they don't like NATO, these are the kinds of things they're talking about
>I personally don't think Russia would invade Poland or whatever after they're done with Ukraine
Brother, what in the preposterous fuck are you talking about. "You don't think?" You want to dismantle an entire world order on what you \*think\* wouldn't happen if you did it?
You realize you're literally just articulating the same exact logic about Germany that the world had prior to WWII?
If a nation like Russia thinks it can take a territory, and there's no hard military intervention to stop it, it will. That's the entire reason NATO exists. To stop massive land wars.
This is the reason NATO exists in the first place. It comes on the heels of decades of constant imperial aggression on the European continent and the loss of millions upon millions upon millions of lives.
And no, of course it isn't a perfect entity. Sure, it has the effect of smothering out ideologies like communism.
But it has prevented an extraordinary amount of bloodshed that we saw without it. And you can't just dismantle it and expect everything won't go to absolute shit.
Why do you think Russia WANTS to dismantle NATO to begin with? Why would you care unless your stated goal is rebuilding the USSR?
Russia is literally as we speak invading a democratic sovereign neighbor and slaughtering them by the tens of thousands, and you think they wouldn't do that if NATO military protections didn't insulate other nations like Poland?
Sorry I'm not getting to involved with this but the belief that Russia is just some bloodthirsty horde that's going to keep invading land out of nothing but lust for power is entirely untrue. The root issue is that Americans can't emphasize with their enemies or understand that even people who do awful things often do so because they have been deeply wronged and are forced into extreme circumstances (see Russia in the 90s).
It's also insane to act like anyone here is acting on anything other than their own opinions. Yeah I think they won't invade Poland. I should change my mind just cause someone else *thinks* they will? Yeah no.
I simply don't subscribe to this belief that constant foreign militarism is needed for national security. I don't believe it. I look at what happened in Iraq and Vietnam and I don't think we're the good guys, period. We need to view our enemies as human beings and bargain with them for some kind of diplomacy. The only alternative to this is nuclear war. That's what people really mean when they say "standing up to Russia". That's where all of these policies lead. And I'm simply against it. I would rather die as the better man than debase my people and our morals down to the level of bloodthirsty neocon hawks.
Oh dear god mate. The nineties *forced* Russia to invade Ukraine?
The country is literally run by a kleptocrat who embezzles hundreds of billions of dollars out of his own tax base and who continually starts land wars for his own personal glorification.
Their economy is in absolute shambles, their people are suffering as they've pretty much always suffered.
They literally [already invaded Poland in 1920](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_(1920)), and [Poland itself is warning everyone that Russia will invade it next](https://www.newsweek.com/poland-radoslaw-sikorski-russia-nato-attack-1895017).
I mean you have to just be living under the heaviest rock on the planet to deny this shit. It's a comical level of head-in-sand.
> I would rather die as the better man than debase my people and our morals down to the level of bloodthirsty neocon hawks.
The absolute irony of this statement as you're defending Russia's gruesome slaughter of innocent Ukranians just blows my mind. You're a bad person.
So, obviously reading NATO's own documents states they are a defensive alliance in nature (of course, that's their own documents so that's somewhat subjective), but personally speaking I don't see an issue with an anti-communist (not anti-socalist) alliance, particularly given the fact that there's [quite literally dozens of documented examples of crimes against humanity under "Communist" regimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity_under_communist_regimes). I think that communism and socialism get conflated way too much, but preventing the spread of the iron curtain and the influence of the Soviet Union, I don't really see an issue with among consenting bodies of the people.
Looking into (incredibly briefly) the history of election interference in various nations - I don't chalk this one as much up to NATO as "The Cold War" in general - the Soviets were doing it, the US was doing it, the Saudis were doing it, everyone and their grandma was doing it. Does that make it right, no, but it did happen. I'll give this one a net neutral - it was inevitable, but still bad on everyone. Unfortunately, People are People.
Regarding operation GLADIO, yes. It's bad. I won't have any issues stating that - no operation or political objective is clean in all of history. A few hundred people did die under those operations, if I am remembering correctly, but it is still (a bit callously, but objectively) "only" a few hundred people over decades. Still regrettable and bad, though. I'll always agree the deaths of civilians are always regrettable and bad. On the whole, though, I do still loop back to the fact that while NATO may be responsible for the deaths of civilians, so is everyone else on the world stage at that scale, and the difference in scale is all I really need to look at to see what horse I'm backing.
On the whole, I do think that NATO has done more good than harm, but I certainly do respect the opinion that people have that NATO isn't perfect and has done harm in the past. While I don't think we'll agree on things, I do want to thank you for actually typing out a response and providing me your reasoning as to why :)
He helped bring about Trump's 2016 win. Along with Zuckerberg, the Murdochs, the Mercers, and James Comey. Other than Comey they are all in play again.
It already is. Unless they're stopped in Ukraine. We'll see where historians draw the line but hopefully not. Although, if they have a line to draw hopefully we live to see it...
It’s not there yet. But you get it. Poland is NATO, that’s why Putin is toe-ing the line in Belarus. The foolish don’t understand that weapons and money to Ukraine = WWIII deterrent. I loathe that Ukraine is taking the brunt, and we can’t just go in and wipe Russia off the map over there. But there are all those thousands, dare say millions of pesky warheads….
If Trump wins, the three most powerful countries on Earth would be governed by a trifecta of dictators who have the courts in their pocket.
Anyone here miss 2012 yet?
That was his plan in 2020 and I genuinely think that’s why Trump was suddenly obsessed with Ukraine that year, he was following Putin’s plan to demonize Ukraine so when Putin launched his offensive, people would theoretically be apathetic about it. This failed and Putin having a much harder time with the war is largely because Trump lost. Make no mistake, Putin is gonna go all in on this because he has to, the path to victory begins with Trump getting elected and interfering with aid to Ukraine.
Remember Bolsonaro and Johnson.
It's hard to deny that Trump's term coincided with fascists in democratic offices around the globe.
The easiest way to topple an enemy's democracy is to convince the citizens of that country that they don't want a democracy anymore.
The CIA knows this.
What goes around comes around.
> The CIA knows this.
And they also know that the KGB got a big slice of the pie when Russian democracy collapsed. Don't assume the CIA will come down on our side when the shit hits the fan.
I'm not in a position to do shit about it, but I'm sure as fuck not about to vote for people who are looking for a license to go full authoritarian.
Assuming the CIA is rogue, all they can do is sneak around and mind fuck people. The only way this country is going to go fascist is if citizens forget what the Constitution means and start rounding up their fellow citizens.
He was obviously banking on a ~~Putin~~ Trump win in 2020 as well, then jumped the gun on Ukraine when he realized he might not get a better opportunity
From VF contributor Mikhail Zygar:
Now the Kremlin believes that if Trump wins in November, everything will be different. It hopes he will no longer pay attention to the liberal media or the criticism of the Democrats. Moreover, the Kremlin is convinced that Trump is ready (at least rhetorically) to dismantle the old world order and claim credit for creating a new one.
Most right wing political parties in the West have been completely overtaken by Putin. Make no mistake, this vile shit we are seeing is not some coincidental accident, it is very well orchestrated by Russia and pushed constantly online by their troll farms. These sentiments have always existed, but they are making it appear far more popular and thus acceptable then it organically/naturally would be.
The world is pretty obviously realigned into US-Europe and Russia-China blocs (not sure where India ends up, as they’re geopolitically aligned with the former group but ideologically aligned with the latter).
All Russia and China really need is for the US to embrace “neutrality” which will tip the scales grossly in their favor.
China is in the midst of an ugly border dispute with India, and India is more than happy to pick up contracts with companies pulling out of China. It's beneficial to them to play all sides but they definitely are not friendly with China at the moment.
A big difference is that NATO is a true alliance. China will do what is best for China. Putin may hope his interests align with China’s but if they don’t, China won’t come running to his side. Sure, China might want to see a weaker Europe and US, but if that looks unpromising, they’ll settle for some sweet sweet Russian natural resources when it all falls apart.
China wants to see Russia and the west fight it out, then pick over the corpses and relive their dreams of the good old days as hegemons.
But there's good reason to believe that the fight will be far more one-sided than many people expected.
I think he is banking on a Trump win, or a Trump loss followed by chaos as Trump refuses to concede and tries to overturn the result by any means he can think of.
Banking? Putin is doing everything in his power to achieve a win for trump, spreading misinformation, sponsoring extreme right. That’s why Trump is blurting out piss like this. He knows he’s backed up by Putin. The more stupid things Trump blurts out the more he’s convinced he’ll get the win served on a Russian plate. He can go on stage, say random things and he knows he has Putin support. While everyone thinks he’s deranged or lost it. It doesn’t matter.
I’ve been to Russia a couple of times. My trump loving acquaintances seem to think that living in Russia is wonderful? Food is cheaper the way of life if better. Tucker Carlson going to a grocery store in Moscow and saying it’s better stocked than the ones in America is so laughable I can barely stand it. Not only can Russians not afford to shop in a grocery store. They don’t have money for food most of the time, especially the senior citizens who get paid $100 from the Russian government per month to live on and it cost $500 a month to live in Moscow when you go to museums or Heritage sites they always have senior citizens working there because they have no money. There are no fancy cars on the street. There’s no fancy stores to buy your clothing in. There’s nothing for the local citizens of Russia. It’s disgusting that the Trump supporters truly believe that this is factual.🤷♀️
Thing is Putin an Xi both no that if they get Trump in power they will be able to do ANYTHING they want an Trump will find a way to justify it AS LONG AS HE GETS THE MONEY.
They know that if they throw enough money Trumps way he will do anything regardless of how much it hurts the American people.
Still find it funny when republicans say but Trumps rich so he can't be bribed. How do you think he got rich lol. He us as bent as a nine dollar note lol
The end goal is to destroy the West via infighting. The goal isn't to give Trump a seat at the table for the new world order. Neither Putin nor Xi care at all about Trump or the USA. Trump is just a means to an end.
>For them, Mikhail Gorbachev is not a democrat or a reformer. For former KGB officers, Gorbachev is a demagogue and a narcissist who desperately wanted to please the audience but had no plan of action; a president whose policies were so chaotic that the empire began to fall apart, with different parts declaring their independence.
Okay this is 100% true though lmao
They buy the fallacy that there was a solution other than letting the shithouse go up in flames. One big reason the empire collapsed was that the Russians were universally despised by nearly everyone under their heel, and the Russian economy was so riddled by corruption and incompetence that they couldn't afford to keep the vassal states at gunpoint anymore.
Deep down every leftist (myself included) has a very Mark-Wahlburg-on-9/11 type opinion about the collapse of the USSR lol
I could have figured it out tho. Wouldn't have gone down like that if I was around
He really isn't. He's banking on a loss so that it can push a few states to attempt to secede. He already had a puppet president. His goal is to break the US apart.
I agree with the second part. Putin has a win-win in the US; he’ll win if Trump gets a second term, and he also wins from the chaos he and Pooh Bear have sewn. Problem is both sides of the media here is also being played like a fiddle, and mostly unaware of it.
Though he's not stupid, Putin isn't some kind of genius, and his own position is more brittle than the media image of him. If oligarchs start catching colds, he'll be coming down with covid or worse. And Russia can't remain mired in Ukraine indefinitly. They've taken half a million casualties so far, out of a population with about six million young men.
And remember what "decimation" originally meant: every tenth man a casualty. They're very close to that point. In ancient times, it was believed that losses beyond that level were not sustainable.
Of course, war's full of uncertainty. But this summer, if Ukraine can get some better air cover in place, things could change fast. They've demonstrated their ability to destroy Russian assets. Their problem has been getting near enough to them. That's hard without at least local air superiority. And here come the Patriots and the F-16s.
And Putin's position could change precipitously as well. This is not a stable situation.
The US won't be broken apart. The secessionists will be drone fodder, and this time we'll do reconstruction the right way, starting with the complete expropriation and destruction of the traitorous ruling class.
> The secessionists will be drone fodder,
There's no way the federal government would fire on its rebelling citizenry. The plan isn't to win a civil war, or even start one. It's to play chicken with the federal government and create a constitutional crisis. The problem will be how do you keep South Carolina in the United States if it says it doesn't want to be, without killing people.
This, exactly this. The right-wing screaming and crying for seceding from the Union will be deafening if Biden wins. I'm assuming Putin has already given the troll farms their marching orders to push this narrative relentlessly.
The other thing you are going to see if Biden wins is Republicans in the Senate filibuster spending bills until the US defaults on its debt, which Putin would be absolutely delighted to watch.
> The right-wing screaming and crying for seceding from the Union will be deafening if Biden wins.
We saw how little it took to stop them on Jan 6. At this point, I'd strongly support turning them into pink mist if they take up arms against the US. See how much they still talk tough after that.
In no way would a state secede. The stayes.youre thinking of, need the federal government. No way would Russia just step into these and states and implement their government. Come on now
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this crazy long play is actually super clever. Misinformation campaign stretching over years starting in 2014. Wait until populist president takes over. Harvest results. Damn.
Trump doesn't know anything but how to bellow and whine. There were smarter people pulling his strings who had access to detailed knowledge of how to sabotage US institutions.
What's wrong with Bernie Sanders that he blocked Obama's pick to begin with, and his voters that they voted for Jill Stein allowing Trump an open vacancy with which to control the board? 🤔
Damn, who knew elections matter? 🫠
This is like the last election. More Russian propaganda from the left. You expected to believe that Putin is actively recruiting me to vote for Trump? It’s more conspiracy than fact/conjecture.
> It’s more conspiracy than fact/conjecture.
It was found in the Mueller investigation (whom I should remind you, is a Republican) that Russia 100% interfered in the 2016 election. What he didn't want to make the determination on is whether or not the Trump team knew that and were actively working with Russia. But it's clear that Russia has a vested interest in winning Trump the presidency. And if you don't believe me, then go read the report itself. It comes with plenty of receipts to back up that assertion.
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The outcome of this election will determine the outcome of the war in Ukraine. Putin has been clinging on in Ukraine, with the help of Republicans, waiting for Trump to get back in office so they can roll over Ukraine unopposed. If Biden wins again, I don't think Putin can hang on another 4 years and hope for a friendly candidate, and he knows it. So expect misinformation to reach a new level as the fall gets closer, Putin absolutely depends on Trump winning and will throw every resource he has available at this election.
Yeah Putin is all in with Trump 2024. And millions of so called patriots are okay with that...
The tone sure changed from the 80 & 90s towards the Russians, then they were compromised. Now you have top GOP being told by Putin to fly to Russia on the 4th of July without question
That July 4th Russia trip should be brought up at every single argument against the GOP and I genuinely wonder why a bigger deal isn't made about it.
Because Russia under Putin is a blue print of what the GOP wants for the US. That is much different than the 80's under Reagan.
They talk about Make America Great Again. I think America was pretty great when Red Dawn was in theaters. Can we get back to that America?
I know you are joking but 1984 was an electric year for pop culture and i could totally get on board. Purple rain, born in the usa, stop making sense, ghostbusters, the terminator, this is spinal tap, etc, etc, etc.
They aren’t patriots they are traitors that don’t know a thing about the USA it’s frightening how many there are
[https://www.zazzle.com/putin\_trump\_2020\_election\_bumper\_sticker-128096969475930603](https://www.zazzle.com/putin_trump_2020_election_bumper_sticker-128096969475930603)
While a Biden win will utterly fuck Putin, Europe would pick up the slack even with zero U.S. assistance.
Then why didn't they do exactly that while the Republicans were withholding aid for months in the US House?
It takes time to match the level of materiel support the US can offer, which is why Europe has mostly been covering Ukraine's financial needs instead. Something we did see, though, during that period of Republican fuckery was several European countries begin talking about putting boots on the ground. Especially France, who are now suffering from a disinformation assault that's causing all sorts of upset.
> who are now suffering from a disinformation assault that's causing all sorts of upset. This is one of the reasons Russia needs to crash and burn. The west doesn't take this threat seriously enough.
And a lot of that time was winter and early spring, when major military initiatives aren't all that feasible there. Ukrainian mud is something else.
Not to mention, Russia the gas station is done for. Europe was it's main customer, and all of Europe is going to unilaterally keep boycotting it, especially after mass investment in additional import capacity between EU countries and pors.
In addition to what others said, it's not like they were sitting around doing nothing. Many countries have been bolstering their own defenses in case ukraine falls, as well as continuous training with ukraine and NATO allies. It's not a hard on/ off switch.
Because their backs weren’t to the wall.
No one does war like us baby
Because Europe isn’t a homogenous nation and is actually dozens of countries with different political leanings and levels of military industry.
Lot of people here confused as to why American military aid is so important. Maybe they’ve forgotten https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/SM_share_of_world_military_expenditure_of_the_15_countries_with_the_highest_spending_in_2022.png How much we spend on our military budget.
Imagine how much more powerful the US military would be if they weren’t crippled by corporate greed and bureaucracy. For example, sometimes a simple Bolt used to fix equipment is hundreds of dollars. Imagine if those prices were FAIR prices… the amount of sheer military industrial output would be 2x+ what it is today. The output America achieves with all that bullshit in the way is astounding.
As an American, I agree, but tbf afaik there are many other countries with pork and largesse in their military budgets. E.g. Russia itself famously has a matériel diversion problem, particularly in maintenance.
VERY true. Greedys are gonna be greedy.
You’re absolutely correct and not trying to say otherwise. To be fair to the opposite side, though, this is the military. “Military grade / military precision” is a term for a reason and manufacturing parts to those specifications is not exactly the easiest or cheapest thing in the world. Again, a hammer shouldn’t cost $400 but if you require a hammer to have a 0.1% spec tolerance, it’s not going to cost $15, either. Hammer is just an example.
>Imagine how much more powerful the US military would be if they weren’t crippled by ~~corporate greed and bureaucracy~~ unfettered capitalism.
True. Capitalism is really an excellent model, but humans just abuse it.
if trump wins he will make active efforts for a Russian V over Ukraine
I don't think we have the military weight to pick up the slack against both Russia and pro Russia USA.
I’ve seen it broken down by military analysts. Europe has *little choice* whether to ensure Ukraine doesn’t fall. They have plenty of military hardware and manpower.
Then who helps the US when it’s F’d, only thing left is Russian China North Korea Warlords and Sultans? This is an issue of humanity versus parasitic cancers wearing imported suits.
Yes, I agree. I would say it’s a struggle between the ideologies of the Enlightenment versus Authoritarianism. It’s freedom and democracy versus dictatorship. Same as WWII.
Yes, humanity versus parasitic cancers wearing imported suits, yet it is drastically different than WW2. The stakes are significantly higher for the entire species; the few will sacrifice us all to rule over the ashes.
I don’t think the last EU elections are indicative of that 😬
No they won’t and you goddamn well know it
This is cope
They have to have americas support. America is arguably the most helpful country by far when it comes to conflicts like this
A Biden win won’t fuck Putin, and Europe’s army comes mainly from us anyways.
I worried it’s going to be more than just “misinformation”
"We suspect election irregularity. Please do not notice armed Russian International Election Monitor. There for security. All glory to Mother Russia."
> The outcome of this election will determine the outcome of the war in Ukraine. I don't disagree that Trump will fuck it up but Ukraine can still win this war. They could win it NOW if the west would give permissions to strike into Russia.
Why can’t Europe step up and fill the gap? There are multiple nations in Europe not just one. France is still busy doing neocolonial crap for its corporate interests in Africa.
Because Europe, even with the EU, is not a single nation.
That’s my point. Multiple sovereign independent nations vs just one USA.
Because historically they invested less in defense and relief on fortress USA. It made sense when they were rebuilding after WWII. America had broad shoulders. Still do.
They’ve known about Russia since at least the Georgia invasion years ago more than 15 years ago. How long does it take to build more ammunition and aircraft?
Because many are spending that capital on their own defenses just in case ukraine is not enough. NATO spending is way up across the board.
Fair enough. But as long as France is busy with their neocolonial crap in Africa, hard to feel sorry for Europe’s security.
What's really fun is that Russia and the (former) Wagner group are actively trying to undermine french relations in Africa in order to just replace them. Russia is literally taking gold from Africa to fund its war.
That’s cope. Ukraine’s fucked either way.
How much do they pay at the troll farm? It's summer break and I'm looking for a side gig.
My bad bro, a third world dogshit nation is definitely gonna beat the ass of the world’s second strongest superpower.
Ok. So Papua New Guinea won't defeat China. Got it. Now back to Russia and Ukraine...
Copium, through and through
Calling Russia the world's second most powerful military is irrational tankism. By all meaningful measures they are a modest power. Especially given they are, yet again, at a stalemate in Ukraine.
“Especially given they are, yet again, at a stalemate in Ukraine.” Yeah dude, Ukraine is doing that on its own. It totally isn’t getting billions from other nations. The US lost to fucking Vietnam and couldn’t get anything done in Korea. Of course, there were very good reasons for this, in the same way that there are reasons why Ukraine hasn’t lost yet.
Lol. Do you truly believe that Russia has a more poweful military than China? Vietnam was half a world away and the US lost because they withdrew. Until that point the Vietcong were being pummled. North Korea was lost because the US did not want war with China. China entered the war because NK were getting smashed. Ukraine recieves equipment as they are an aspirant to the world's most powerful alliance. Their soldiers are their own. They are next door to Russia. If Russia were as powerful as China they would be at Poland's border by now.
That third day of the three day special military operation sure is taking awhile... They immediately fell flat on their face and lost all their "elite" troops who had no support... you just wish they'd succeeded. They revealed to the world that they are a tissue paper bear. Much to the horror of the tiger who is likely the same material...
The stakes in the election are life and death for Trump and Putin - that's why they are capable of anything to win. Trump needs to win to stay out of jail. Putin needs Trump to win to defeat Ukraine.
Genuinely think actual votes get changed this election but it helps Trump win.
So are the Republicans
Putin can go pound salt! We don't need his loser boyfriend!
Conservatives around the world are succeeding in taking control of countries, and it's getting pretty scary. Canada is in the crosshairs too. Ukraine is in SO much trouble if Trump wins, and what's to stop Putin from going after Georgia and maybe Latvia and Estonia after?
> what's to stop Putin from going after Georgia and maybe Latvia and Estonia after? well the good news is that the war in ukraine has crippled the russian military for a decade. Putin's stated next target is poland, but even with an end to NATO he's gonna have to hold off on that for some time.
Well, I suppose Trump might prevent Putin from invading them if he orders the US to invade them for him. We'll just be a puppet extension of Russian oligarchs.
They will gain more control when climate change gets worse and we have tens of millions of climate refugees and people from hot countries start moving to cold countries and the people there will flip out and vote for anyone anti-immigration.
Trump will definitely move to leave NATO
He’ll just pull us straight out. Dictator from day 1.
Yes. He would probably leave NATO
God I wish this were true
Why? Like, honest question, why would we want to leave NATO? NATO has built one of the largest cooperative security agreements in history. It has essentially allowed and helped maintain global American military power projection at a fraction the cost of if we had to deal with every member country individually. And, essentially, the US dominates NATO policy for better or worse. Not to mention that the mutual defense pact (Article 5) has only been invoked once in history - 9/11. Our allies came to our aid during our darkest times.
"Cooperative" is all you had to say. That's why he doesn't support it. And it's incredibly short sighted. United We Stand.
I don't even know where to start. I could write out a longer response but I don't have a lot of time rn so I'll write a few of my first thoughts. NATO is not a defensive alliance. It was created explicitly to stop the spread of socialism in western Europe. NATO armed terrorists and interfered with elections in Italy, France, and Belgium, undermining democracy to push American interests on Europe. NATO is absolutely an arm of American imperialism. Many were killed through the terrorists that NATO armed through Operation GLADIO. And of course, there's the hundreds of thousands who were killed in Libya and Yugoslavia ( and NO, those countries being controlled by dictators does not make killing civilians justified or okay at all). Many former Nazis occupied NATO high command in the 50s. Germany joining 9 years after fucking doing the holocaust really should tell you everything you need to know about the kind of company being kept by NATO In a nutshell: >It has essentially allowed and helped maintain global American military power projection at a fraction the cost of if we had to deal with every member country individually. And, essentially, the US dominates NATO policy for better or worse. 100% correct. I have this insane belief that it's actually bad to violently impose our political and military objectives all over the world at the price of killing innocent people, and that's exactly what NATO does.
Ok but NATO already exists. You're confusing not ever creating NATO with just summarily dismantling it decades into its existence, and the damage that that would do. The chaos in its absence would be catastrophic. If you want to dismantle NATO you'd need to do it slowly, and carefully, with an eye on how to mitigate the consequences, like a bloodthirsty Russia gobbling up every state in its sphere of influence. Your take is impossibly juvenile, and simply ripping down NATO would result in an incalculable loss of life and disruption for numerous sovereign nations.
Yeah NATO exists and has nuclear weapons. Nuclear confrontation needs to be avoided at all costs, no exceptions. I personally don't think Russia would invade Poland or whatever after they're done with Ukraine, but even if they did I wouldn't want to be bound to a treaty which may drag us into nuclear war. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone. But when people on the left say they don't like NATO, these are the kinds of things they're talking about
>I personally don't think Russia would invade Poland or whatever after they're done with Ukraine Brother, what in the preposterous fuck are you talking about. "You don't think?" You want to dismantle an entire world order on what you \*think\* wouldn't happen if you did it? You realize you're literally just articulating the same exact logic about Germany that the world had prior to WWII? If a nation like Russia thinks it can take a territory, and there's no hard military intervention to stop it, it will. That's the entire reason NATO exists. To stop massive land wars. This is the reason NATO exists in the first place. It comes on the heels of decades of constant imperial aggression on the European continent and the loss of millions upon millions upon millions of lives. And no, of course it isn't a perfect entity. Sure, it has the effect of smothering out ideologies like communism. But it has prevented an extraordinary amount of bloodshed that we saw without it. And you can't just dismantle it and expect everything won't go to absolute shit. Why do you think Russia WANTS to dismantle NATO to begin with? Why would you care unless your stated goal is rebuilding the USSR? Russia is literally as we speak invading a democratic sovereign neighbor and slaughtering them by the tens of thousands, and you think they wouldn't do that if NATO military protections didn't insulate other nations like Poland?
Sorry I'm not getting to involved with this but the belief that Russia is just some bloodthirsty horde that's going to keep invading land out of nothing but lust for power is entirely untrue. The root issue is that Americans can't emphasize with their enemies or understand that even people who do awful things often do so because they have been deeply wronged and are forced into extreme circumstances (see Russia in the 90s). It's also insane to act like anyone here is acting on anything other than their own opinions. Yeah I think they won't invade Poland. I should change my mind just cause someone else *thinks* they will? Yeah no. I simply don't subscribe to this belief that constant foreign militarism is needed for national security. I don't believe it. I look at what happened in Iraq and Vietnam and I don't think we're the good guys, period. We need to view our enemies as human beings and bargain with them for some kind of diplomacy. The only alternative to this is nuclear war. That's what people really mean when they say "standing up to Russia". That's where all of these policies lead. And I'm simply against it. I would rather die as the better man than debase my people and our morals down to the level of bloodthirsty neocon hawks.
Oh dear god mate. The nineties *forced* Russia to invade Ukraine? The country is literally run by a kleptocrat who embezzles hundreds of billions of dollars out of his own tax base and who continually starts land wars for his own personal glorification. Their economy is in absolute shambles, their people are suffering as they've pretty much always suffered. They literally [already invaded Poland in 1920](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_(1920)), and [Poland itself is warning everyone that Russia will invade it next](https://www.newsweek.com/poland-radoslaw-sikorski-russia-nato-attack-1895017). I mean you have to just be living under the heaviest rock on the planet to deny this shit. It's a comical level of head-in-sand. > I would rather die as the better man than debase my people and our morals down to the level of bloodthirsty neocon hawks. The absolute irony of this statement as you're defending Russia's gruesome slaughter of innocent Ukranians just blows my mind. You're a bad person.
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So, obviously reading NATO's own documents states they are a defensive alliance in nature (of course, that's their own documents so that's somewhat subjective), but personally speaking I don't see an issue with an anti-communist (not anti-socalist) alliance, particularly given the fact that there's [quite literally dozens of documented examples of crimes against humanity under "Communist" regimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity_under_communist_regimes). I think that communism and socialism get conflated way too much, but preventing the spread of the iron curtain and the influence of the Soviet Union, I don't really see an issue with among consenting bodies of the people. Looking into (incredibly briefly) the history of election interference in various nations - I don't chalk this one as much up to NATO as "The Cold War" in general - the Soviets were doing it, the US was doing it, the Saudis were doing it, everyone and their grandma was doing it. Does that make it right, no, but it did happen. I'll give this one a net neutral - it was inevitable, but still bad on everyone. Unfortunately, People are People. Regarding operation GLADIO, yes. It's bad. I won't have any issues stating that - no operation or political objective is clean in all of history. A few hundred people did die under those operations, if I am remembering correctly, but it is still (a bit callously, but objectively) "only" a few hundred people over decades. Still regrettable and bad, though. I'll always agree the deaths of civilians are always regrettable and bad. On the whole, though, I do still loop back to the fact that while NATO may be responsible for the deaths of civilians, so is everyone else on the world stage at that scale, and the difference in scale is all I really need to look at to see what horse I'm backing. On the whole, I do think that NATO has done more good than harm, but I certainly do respect the opinion that people have that NATO isn't perfect and has done harm in the past. While I don't think we'll agree on things, I do want to thank you for actually typing out a response and providing me your reasoning as to why :)
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Lol so fucking shortsighted.
The average European would rather spit in your face for being American than shake your hand, no amount of Europe is worth an once of American blood
r/ShitAmericansSay
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r/ShitAmericansSay
Never doubted that for a moment. Ever since Obama passed the Magnitsky act Putin has been looking for ways to get it reversed.
He helped bring about Trump's 2016 win. Along with Zuckerberg, the Murdochs, the Mercers, and James Comey. Other than Comey they are all in play again.
Remember those names. Never forget that they imposed Trump on us and are trying to do it again. And never forgive.
Ukraine, then Moldova, then the Baltics, then Poland.
Then, the rest of the —stans in Central Asia? Then, the rest of former Eastern European bloc ?
Poland is NOT having that…
As a % of GDP poland is spending more than any other NATO partner on NATO defense.
If Putin sets foot in Poland, it’s WWIII
It already is. Unless they're stopped in Ukraine. We'll see where historians draw the line but hopefully not. Although, if they have a line to draw hopefully we live to see it...
It’s not there yet. But you get it. Poland is NATO, that’s why Putin is toe-ing the line in Belarus. The foolish don’t understand that weapons and money to Ukraine = WWIII deterrent. I loathe that Ukraine is taking the brunt, and we can’t just go in and wipe Russia off the map over there. But there are all those thousands, dare say millions of pesky warheads….
If Trump wins, the three most powerful countries on Earth would be governed by a trifecta of dictators who have the courts in their pocket. Anyone here miss 2012 yet?
Yes I do…
China and USA… who am I missing? I feel daft.
That was his plan in 2020 and I genuinely think that’s why Trump was suddenly obsessed with Ukraine that year, he was following Putin’s plan to demonize Ukraine so when Putin launched his offensive, people would theoretically be apathetic about it. This failed and Putin having a much harder time with the war is largely because Trump lost. Make no mistake, Putin is gonna go all in on this because he has to, the path to victory begins with Trump getting elected and interfering with aid to Ukraine.
Yes, and it’s all of Europe where he’s after. He’s recruiting North Korea as a meat shield.
Remember Bolsonaro and Johnson. It's hard to deny that Trump's term coincided with fascists in democratic offices around the globe. The easiest way to topple an enemy's democracy is to convince the citizens of that country that they don't want a democracy anymore. The CIA knows this. What goes around comes around.
> The CIA knows this. And they also know that the KGB got a big slice of the pie when Russian democracy collapsed. Don't assume the CIA will come down on our side when the shit hits the fan.
I'm not in a position to do shit about it, but I'm sure as fuck not about to vote for people who are looking for a license to go full authoritarian. Assuming the CIA is rogue, all they can do is sneak around and mind fuck people. The only way this country is going to go fascist is if citizens forget what the Constitution means and start rounding up their fellow citizens.
He was obviously banking on a ~~Putin~~ Trump win in 2020 as well, then jumped the gun on Ukraine when he realized he might not get a better opportunity
From VF contributor Mikhail Zygar: Now the Kremlin believes that if Trump wins in November, everything will be different. It hopes he will no longer pay attention to the liberal media or the criticism of the Democrats. Moreover, the Kremlin is convinced that Trump is ready (at least rhetorically) to dismantle the old world order and claim credit for creating a new one.
Trump and Republicans will obediently capitulate.
The GOP has been taken over by Russia.
Most right wing political parties in the West have been completely overtaken by Putin. Make no mistake, this vile shit we are seeing is not some coincidental accident, it is very well orchestrated by Russia and pushed constantly online by their troll farms. These sentiments have always existed, but they are making it appear far more popular and thus acceptable then it organically/naturally would be.
There's a reason his name is also Agent Orange. Trump is and has been an agent of putin for a while now.
Lol, he's too dumb to be an agent. A tool for sure, but nobody would want him as an agent.
billionaires backing trump will will get their business interests taken over by the GQP fascist rule
It’s funny how the conspiracy theorists always warn about the NWO, but never realize they are the ones bringing it upon us.
They are the same people in the 1930's that looked at Hitler and said "He wouldn't do that..."
Conservatives are pro Russia.
The world is pretty obviously realigned into US-Europe and Russia-China blocs (not sure where India ends up, as they’re geopolitically aligned with the former group but ideologically aligned with the latter). All Russia and China really need is for the US to embrace “neutrality” which will tip the scales grossly in their favor.
China is in the midst of an ugly border dispute with India, and India is more than happy to pick up contracts with companies pulling out of China. It's beneficial to them to play all sides but they definitely are not friendly with China at the moment.
A big difference is that NATO is a true alliance. China will do what is best for China. Putin may hope his interests align with China’s but if they don’t, China won’t come running to his side. Sure, China might want to see a weaker Europe and US, but if that looks unpromising, they’ll settle for some sweet sweet Russian natural resources when it all falls apart.
China wants to see Russia and the west fight it out, then pick over the corpses and relive their dreams of the good old days as hegemons. But there's good reason to believe that the fight will be far more one-sided than many people expected.
I think he is banking on a Trump win, or a Trump loss followed by chaos as Trump refuses to concede and tries to overturn the result by any means he can think of.
Banking? Putin is doing everything in his power to achieve a win for trump, spreading misinformation, sponsoring extreme right. That’s why Trump is blurting out piss like this. He knows he’s backed up by Putin. The more stupid things Trump blurts out the more he’s convinced he’ll get the win served on a Russian plate. He can go on stage, say random things and he knows he has Putin support. While everyone thinks he’s deranged or lost it. It doesn’t matter.
I got banned from this sub on my old account for suggesting this idea. My how things have changed!
I’ve been to Russia a couple of times. My trump loving acquaintances seem to think that living in Russia is wonderful? Food is cheaper the way of life if better. Tucker Carlson going to a grocery store in Moscow and saying it’s better stocked than the ones in America is so laughable I can barely stand it. Not only can Russians not afford to shop in a grocery store. They don’t have money for food most of the time, especially the senior citizens who get paid $100 from the Russian government per month to live on and it cost $500 a month to live in Moscow when you go to museums or Heritage sites they always have senior citizens working there because they have no money. There are no fancy cars on the street. There’s no fancy stores to buy your clothing in. There’s nothing for the local citizens of Russia. It’s disgusting that the Trump supporters truly believe that this is factual.🤷♀️
So are all the enemies of America. A vote for Trump is a vote for chaos.
Nice, a new world order Alex Jones would approve of
He's a loser little tittie baby.
Who is farting for his life.
Not gonna happen Vladimir Putito
Thing is Putin an Xi both no that if they get Trump in power they will be able to do ANYTHING they want an Trump will find a way to justify it AS LONG AS HE GETS THE MONEY. They know that if they throw enough money Trumps way he will do anything regardless of how much it hurts the American people. Still find it funny when republicans say but Trumps rich so he can't be bribed. How do you think he got rich lol. He us as bent as a nine dollar note lol
The end goal is to destroy the West via infighting. The goal isn't to give Trump a seat at the table for the new world order. Neither Putin nor Xi care at all about Trump or the USA. Trump is just a means to an end.
Simply put, you don’t have to like Biden to vote “NO” on Trump, Putin and Xi (or Netanyahu).
What’s his October surprise then? Putin’s got a lot riding on betting Trump wins. I expect he’s willing to go all in to sway the election.
Voting has consequences.
Putin invested a lot in Trump and the republicans in the USA after all. He wants more profit out of that.
Poor Vlad is going to be in for such a disappointment.
Every scumbag in the world is hoping he wins
>For them, Mikhail Gorbachev is not a democrat or a reformer. For former KGB officers, Gorbachev is a demagogue and a narcissist who desperately wanted to please the audience but had no plan of action; a president whose policies were so chaotic that the empire began to fall apart, with different parts declaring their independence. Okay this is 100% true though lmao
They buy the fallacy that there was a solution other than letting the shithouse go up in flames. One big reason the empire collapsed was that the Russians were universally despised by nearly everyone under their heel, and the Russian economy was so riddled by corruption and incompetence that they couldn't afford to keep the vassal states at gunpoint anymore.
Deep down every leftist (myself included) has a very Mark-Wahlburg-on-9/11 type opinion about the collapse of the USSR lol I could have figured it out tho. Wouldn't have gone down like that if I was around
He really isn't. He's banking on a loss so that it can push a few states to attempt to secede. He already had a puppet president. His goal is to break the US apart.
I agree with the second part. Putin has a win-win in the US; he’ll win if Trump gets a second term, and he also wins from the chaos he and Pooh Bear have sewn. Problem is both sides of the media here is also being played like a fiddle, and mostly unaware of it.
Though he's not stupid, Putin isn't some kind of genius, and his own position is more brittle than the media image of him. If oligarchs start catching colds, he'll be coming down with covid or worse. And Russia can't remain mired in Ukraine indefinitly. They've taken half a million casualties so far, out of a population with about six million young men. And remember what "decimation" originally meant: every tenth man a casualty. They're very close to that point. In ancient times, it was believed that losses beyond that level were not sustainable. Of course, war's full of uncertainty. But this summer, if Ukraine can get some better air cover in place, things could change fast. They've demonstrated their ability to destroy Russian assets. Their problem has been getting near enough to them. That's hard without at least local air superiority. And here come the Patriots and the F-16s. And Putin's position could change precipitously as well. This is not a stable situation.
The US won't be broken apart. The secessionists will be drone fodder, and this time we'll do reconstruction the right way, starting with the complete expropriation and destruction of the traitorous ruling class.
> The secessionists will be drone fodder, There's no way the federal government would fire on its rebelling citizenry. The plan isn't to win a civil war, or even start one. It's to play chicken with the federal government and create a constitutional crisis. The problem will be how do you keep South Carolina in the United States if it says it doesn't want to be, without killing people.
> a few states to attempt to secede Ahahaha. Right, let me laugh even harder. This shit is something people say who have no idea how US works.
Trumpers are gleefully participating in his play of fools.
This, exactly this. The right-wing screaming and crying for seceding from the Union will be deafening if Biden wins. I'm assuming Putin has already given the troll farms their marching orders to push this narrative relentlessly. The other thing you are going to see if Biden wins is Republicans in the Senate filibuster spending bills until the US defaults on its debt, which Putin would be absolutely delighted to watch.
> The right-wing screaming and crying for seceding from the Union will be deafening if Biden wins. We saw how little it took to stop them on Jan 6. At this point, I'd strongly support turning them into pink mist if they take up arms against the US. See how much they still talk tough after that.
In no way would a state secede. The stayes.youre thinking of, need the federal government. No way would Russia just step into these and states and implement their government. Come on now
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Duh.
Love the big head mode here
This isn’t Too Sweet at all!
His millennia empire, if you will.
And if Trump loses republicans will try to start a civil war and if that doesn’t go through he will try to nuke someone
I don’t see how they could possibly know half of the stuff this article claims to know… “Putin watched House of cards” says fucking who???
It could fucking happen, Europe. Watch out, Africa. LOL, Middle East. Enjoy, South America. Up for grabs, Asia. See you at the bar, Australia.
Hey ~~Russia~~ American allies and white knight hackers, if you’re listening…
And your Boomer parents are going to vote for him.
this crazy long play is actually super clever. Misinformation campaign stretching over years starting in 2014. Wait until populist president takes over. Harvest results. Damn.
Meanwhile, Biden has STILL NOT FIRED BALLOT BLOCKING DeJoy so this new World order could happen. What the hell is wrong with Biden?
He can't, the board needs to be replaced to fire him. Trump knew what he was doing when appointing DeJoy.
Trump doesn't know anything but how to bellow and whine. There were smarter people pulling his strings who had access to detailed knowledge of how to sabotage US institutions.
What's wrong with Bernie Sanders that he blocked Obama's pick to begin with, and his voters that they voted for Jill Stein allowing Trump an open vacancy with which to control the board? 🤔 Damn, who knew elections matter? 🫠
Paywall...
Didn’t Putin already denounce Trump as the less stable choice compared to Biden?
That was just a weak trolling on his part. He really is desperate for Biden to be gone.
Briccs is the threat to the current world order…
Well the NWO under Biden not working…
This is like the last election. More Russian propaganda from the left. You expected to believe that Putin is actively recruiting me to vote for Trump? It’s more conspiracy than fact/conjecture.
its sort of a conspiracy in the same vein as "ice melts when warm" lol honestly it'd be more of an unlikely cospiracy if russians WEREN'T involved.
> It’s more conspiracy than fact/conjecture. It was found in the Mueller investigation (whom I should remind you, is a Republican) that Russia 100% interfered in the 2016 election. What he didn't want to make the determination on is whether or not the Trump team knew that and were actively working with Russia. But it's clear that Russia has a vested interest in winning Trump the presidency. And if you don't believe me, then go read the report itself. It comes with plenty of receipts to back up that assertion.
Mueller believed that it was up to Congress to make that determination. But he made a very strong case.
You don't really think the guy is going to read a report that goes against his own wishful thinking.
Nope, but I enjoy calling them out on it.