As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We were screaming at the TV about why they didn't have water at those podiums.
I've done work that involves lots of speaking, there's some good remedies as simple as honey and tea, or sprays. Did they do anything?!
He seemed pretty doped up on cold medicines, which aren't well known to make you more alert.
Honey and tea is good, but wouldn't really relieve the symptoms if you were active and talking. Most remedies that would leave him somewhat cohesive are not long lasting, and even a cold itself tends to make one foggy.
Of course, going forward, everyone will forget what it's like to have a cold, so fun times ahead.
Age and comorbidity may be risk factors for a poor outcome. As we saw last night.
It is odd that by federal law commercial pilots are forced to retire at 60 for single pilot plane routes and 65 for multi-pilot plane routes. Median age of the House is 57.9 and the Senate 65.3, while Trump will be 78 during the election and Biden 82.
Respectfully, if you think a cold-induced rasp was the main issue here you may have missed the point. The man was, at times, utterly incoherent. It came across not that his stutter got the best of him, or he stumbled over his words as we all do at times - but that he was barely lucid and frankly looked like he could keel over at any moment. The cold didn’t help, but the problem is much bigger than that.
Frankly Biden looked bad during the SOTU address. Pundits claiming he was vigorous and vital and that he quieted his doubters were disingenuous or blind. Biden absolutely legitimized age related fears during SOTU - being angry does not in of itself suggest vigor or lucidity. He appeared to struggle with his thoughts at the lectern multiple times and looked like he could collapse at any moment.
Last night was worse, and now the reckoning.
I can see the point he was trying to make — that the amount of women that have died or will die due to Roe v. Wade being overturned exceeds those killed in the rare high profile case. But because (in my opinion) of his stutter and the fact that Trump had him on the ropes the whole time made that difficult for him to say.
I do not buy this cold thing regardless. It feels too reactionary. The wispiness and hoarseness of his voice, combined with his difficulties with stringing sentences together, made him sound a 1,000 years older than Trump, not three.
Trump lied throughout the debate, but he did so confidentially. The things he was honest about — like Ukraine, climate change, the environment, and his defense of the rioters that took over the capital — were truly frightening, but again said confidently. That’s what people will remember.
I worry for November.
Things can still turn around. There’s another debate. But I actually think Biden and the DNC's decision to have him run for a second term was malpractice and disgraceful. The should have considered what it would've been like for a man in his 80s to run against a true lunatic.
They should have known better. This is not just any election year. There are emboldened scary people who want to be given the reigns and not let go.
Fuck, even with all of her problems, Harris running as a "continuation of the Biden administration," but with some of her own idea thrown in would be a good idea.
You get to use the Biden name and everything he has done and give her credit for it as well since she was there by his side as VP. And you have A FUCKING PROSECUTOR on stage to eviscerate Trump.
They should’ve never pushed him 2020. They kept pushing this electability shit to say even if you don’t personally want Biden out of these choices, he is who everyone else will vote for so you need to get on wagon.
I don’t think he’s been a bad president. If he were 20 years younger I’d vote for him with full confidence in him, not just to block his opponent from winning. Last night he looked like when it was time to move Pappy into assisted living
Project 2025 will ensure that I vote for Biden even if he’s stammering.
But I worry about the massive amount of Americans who are willfully uninformed. They historically vote based on stupid shit.
Kennedy beat Nixon because Nixon was sweaty in the debates.
Howard Dean lost because of a scream.
Clinton gained a ton of support for playing a saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show.
The debates aren't there to convince party aligned voters, they're to convince "undecided" voters.
Anyone who saw that without already knowing their vote in November is not confident about voting for Biden.
The 1 term rumors seemed silly in 2020, but now I feel like it was a missed opportunity.
What he needed to do, or should have done, was just own it from the beginning:
“By the way, to the folks tuning in at home and abroad, I’m fighting off a bit of a cold now, so I want to thank you in advance for bearing with my raspy voice tonight.”
Something along those lines would have made him appear more personable and may have even given him some appeal in a sort of “aww-factor” way. Bc just going out there like that with zero explanation was way worse imo, especially for a first debate. Plus I’m sure some campaign writer could write a better, more personable disclaimer than I could ever think of.
They would say the same thing about his age and health if he did that. There's no getting around his age and if he was sick people would say they're worried that he sounded so fragile from just a cold.
Yeah, not getting ahead of it means that all the people wanting to see how he'd be saw him speaking roughly and slowly while losing his train of thought, and turned it off thinking they've seen enough.
Ya, even an admission of like "ya, I'm a little old, but I have good judgement and will be surrounding myself with a competent cabinet. Also, I don't want to literally destroy democracy as we know it or round up your friends and neighbors."
That was very close to my thoughts on how he should have handled that question. Play in his team, surrounding himself with strong people and reinforcing if something happens they can carry on.
That was a missed opportunity
It wasn't the voice that I had issues with.
Or the stuttering for that matter.
We all saw it.
We all saw that look.
I'm going to vote for him but we ALL saw that look.
What those immigrants who are both on Medicare medicade and social security while also stealing all the black and Hispanic folks jobs??? That shit came out so fking racist I can’t believe no one called him on it but no one ever does. I know Biden face was shocked as fk but mics off makes that moot.
Biden doesn't need water. The only thing Biden needs right now is to Benjaman Button this shit. If he can't do that you guys are fucked. Either that or change leadership.
The Whataboutism in this thread is crazy. The top comment is a guy saying "Biden needed some water, Trump needed to learn how to answer a question honestly".
No matter how water you give Biden, he can't answer a question.
Right. I saw nothing that surprised me. Was anyone really surprised by either performance? CNN blasting Bidens performance post debate was the only surprising thing that happened. Like, have these new anchors been so woefully unaware of the situation for the past 4 years? It felt like the democrats are using this opportunity to push him out.
It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. He looked pitiful. So did Trump, but Trump was not only on brand but gave his base exactly what they expected. Biden did none of that all while looking weak during the debate, and his campaign is now pushing lame excuses which also looks weak. Biden won by holding Trump accountable to his BS (that didn’t happen), presenting a plan to move forward with (barely happened), and appearing strong (also didn’t happen).
This debate was Biden’s to lose not Trump’s to win. Biden shot himself in the foot, reloaded, and shot some more.
The American public has a very short memory, and there’s a long time to go until the election. It’s way too early to be proclaiming this to be the watershed moment
This image of Biden will be an enduring picture of a president who has hung around too long. He isn’t going to be able to spin this with an A++ debate showing next time.
Many people on this sub were saying five weeks ago after the debates were agreed and announced that there'd be no chance Trump **wouldn't** drop out of the debates...
Yep. I remember seeing tons of people saying Trump would chicken out of the debate because he'd be afraid to face Biden. The idea that he'd have anything to be afraid of there seems pretty laughable now, unfortunately
I kind of thought people have lost the plot if they thought trump was going to chicken out. I mean trump literally looks at biden like hes a lost old man at some old folks home and cant even walk anymore. There was zero chance trump was every going to "chicken out" against biden when he literally thinks bottom of the barrel about the guy.
A cold doesn't make him lose his train of thought or never look into the camera (the latter is the fault of his staff, not so much him).
There's so many problems from that debate that have nothing to do with a cold and it's honestly insulting for them to roll it out in damage control and try to gaslight people.
Trump sucks. I'll vote for Biden if it's too narcissistic to drop out for someone else. But holy fuck what a nightmare. We should never have been able to get here and it is an abject failure of the Democratic party that we are.
It's not just a cold though. Plenty of people can competently argue and have reasonable discussions while they have a cold.
It's the fact the Dems are so weak they have served this retiree up as their best presidential candidate. He is so old and weak he is prone to sickness, and even more debilitated than normal when he does actually get sick. All of these factors are the least they should be taking into account when choosing who represents their party and values.
Imagine a Democrat party who has the guts to get this guy to stand down, and they actually put forward a president the people can get behind. It honestly doesnt take much at all to out maneuver an idiot like Trump.
But nope, these parties are run by absolute idiots and all we get is weakness and (mental/physical) sickness.
I don't know if that's true or not, but he REALLY did poorly tonight. Hopefully the next debate proves otherwise, because at this point, he's digging our countries grave by remaining in the running instead of stepping down like he should have.
The only hope is Trump being so narcissistic and loving to play the bully so much that he agrees to do it regardless. I could actually see that happening.
The person on CBS who reported this said she asked what's wrong in the *beginning* and they got silence for 45 minutes before they started texting telling her a cold. Also we heard him with a cold before. [His voice gets deeper.](https://twitter.com/ettingermentum/status/1806512760819183940)
He sounded this bad at a D-Day interview. Turned to my partner and we were like *whoa* and then turned on the debate tonight and were like *he’s still like that oh no.*
I am beyond confused. You're right, he sounded raspy 3 weeks ago during a D-day interview. But he sounded fine 2 weeks ago delivering a Juneteenth speech. And then yesterday night at this debate, he sounded raspy again.
Did he have 2 colds in the last month or his voice bipolar.
I wish he would have just said that during his first opportunity to speak. It would have put the whole evening in a different context. He looked and sounded terrible. And that’s all a lot of people are going to take away from tonight.
State of the Union Joe had to show up and he didn't. He was his usual self where he spoke softly near mumbling and I will say this over and over again. PERCEPTION IS REALITY. You have one chance to make a good impression and he failed. Trump was just his lying self but sadly the average American doesn't think. You just hope Biden's surrogates come through and pound the pavement.
I think the SoTU made the Democratic party overconfident and expected him to have a similar appearance tonight. This poor performance is something people have been warning against for years, yet Democrats again fail to heed criticism and are surprised when the inevitable happens. It happened with Hillary's FBI investigation, it's happening with Biden's age, and it will happen again in the future.
Biden needed to pretend Trump wasn't even there. Answer the questions, state your record and policy plans. When appropriate, contrast to your opponent's record. Going tit for tat in real-time with someone that makes things up and lies constantly is fruitless. And now we get to spend a week in disaster recovery instead of a draw or victory lap.
Just be glad this is happening in June and that the average voter’s memory is short (part of why I think they did this early). He has time to recover from a poor performance. If he can come back for the second debate in September and bring the Dark Brandon vibes, this probably won’t move the needle much.
And on the other hand, the absolute meltdown happening on the news outlets makes me think the economy has to be getting better. Record numbers of people going on vacation, Joe starting to beat Trump on the polls, they needed a new five-alarm fire to make us all anxious again…
If it was a cold this is Nixon/Kennedy 2.0.
But Biden rebutted almost no Trump attacks. There are no post birth abortions. Roe did not all abortion in the third trimester. Trump taking credit for things passed by Obama. Trump will not help with childcare.
The optics for Biden may be unrecoverable.
Last time I had a cold I didn’t have my train of thought derail every 10 seconds and just stare off into the void at random.
Really though, how are these our fucking choices? It’s a disgrace, truly. Biden’s drifting into senility and Trump’s literally a fascist. How did we get here?
1) First Past the Post voting inevitably leads to a two party system, heavily reducing competition for the fittest ideas, policies, and candidates
2) Citizens United ensures that the two party duopoly works for wealthy donors and corporations, not average citizens
I wouldn’t give up all hope after last night - Biden didn’t kill it by any means but Trump did not tell the truth. Do what you can, get out and vote, get other people to vote, get involved, stay positive. Most of all, don’t believe the media’s spin - make no mistake they want to make this race as close as they can for ratings and money. Also, many of them wouldn’t mind if Trump won because of ratings and money.
Trump did not tell the truth….
You think that matters to swing voters at this stage???? Everyone knows Trump now. If people are not already turned off by his lies, they never will be.
I think Biden potentially did kill it, if "it" is his campaign. Telling the truth unfortunately has nothing to do with anything in a presidential campaign. Honesty isn't how we pick presidents
The after show said it perfectly, it's a vote for Trump or a vote for President Kamala Harris. At this point I'm still willing to take the later to avoid Trump.
What cold? What source? Biden should have opened the debate by saying "Sorry for my voice tonight. I have a bit of a cold. This man over here is a lying, cheating criminal who should have never been President of our great country and should never be again."
For real, everyone here saying “yeah but Trump lied”. You think that matters at this stage?? Everyone knows Trump, anyone half considering voting for him is already comfortable with his lying ass.
It’s definitely cope. That was about as worst case scenario as possible. I couldn’t even finish watching from second hand embarrassment and I know I ain’t the only one.
It's honestly insane, so many people are going "don't care, still voting for Biden".
That's not who the debates are for. They're for undecided voters, who are 100 percent gonna be swayed by that absolute shit show of a performance.
You can't win in 2024 without reaching independent voters. The right wing narrative that JB has dementia is, for all intents and purposes, confirmed. The truth doesn't matter. Perception is that Joe Biden did not look well. He didn't look like someone fighting a cold. He can't recover from this.
There's also no way you can possibly pull out of the debate without looking just as awful/cowardly. I think the campaign made the less-bad choice here - a bad debate performance can be overcome much easier than Trump hounding Biden for running away for the next 5 months.
He should have opened the debate with a joke about having a cold or something, and could have jokingly mentioned it a few more times throughout the debate. It would have been humanizing and half the country wouldn't be talking about whether or not he was dying of old age
Honestly, not doing it at all. He would’ve been clowned on for being a coward (and rightfully so). It’s just a shame he had such an atrocious showing, and an even bigger blight on American politics that these two senile geezers are our only choices.
If Biden backs out, Trump stands there and spreads lies the entire time with no opposition or physical fact checker beside him saying it is.
If Biden backs out, every single Republican and right wing media outlet would spam Biden is too frail and weak to show up to debate the big strong manchild.
If Biden backs out, every Democrat begins questioning Biden's capability as a leader.
It would be a massive fucking L for the Democrats if he didn't show up. What he needs to do is release a video online afterward answering every question that was asked of citing he couldn't in the debate due to calling out Trump on all his lies and non-answers.
You're trying to tell me that those video clips are not worse than backing out of a debate? Sure, there would be stories for weeks, but holy shit, the first like 30 minutes of that thing were jaw-droppingly embarrassing. This debate should've been a layup. The entire narrative was "all he has to do is not look old" and he looked super old.
or freeze like biden? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vpIF65ISZU
the party is making mistake once again and is putting up extremely an weak candidate against trump
there's a lot of footage from tonight of biden looking old as fuck. from his voice to losing his words to just not being able to debate like a lively person
Absurd levels of cope all around. Read any mainstream media article coming out now. Terrible performance overall. Post-debate discussions are immediately revolving around finding a new candidate. Having a cold doesn't make you stop speaking mid sentence. We're absolutely fucked as a country if this is the best we got to go against Donald Trump and can't even recognize how dire the situation is.
Wow it’s like the Michael Jordan flu game if instead of scoring 38 points Michael Jordan had sat on the bench making weird faces and speaking incoherently and the Bulls lost to Utah by 40 points and then the Jazz became authoritarian dictators and dismantled the NBA.
Or Joe's unwillingness to step aside. He's doing the same thing RBG did. If he doesn't do it himself and back out of the race he's addicted to the power. There is no way he gets off that stage and thinks he's doing what's best to beat Trump. He calls Trump a threat to Democracy yet won't admit that he might be handing him the white house by staying.
Guys. Keep it together. If Trump wins we never get to see the outcome of the trials for J6, election fraud, and stealing classified docs. He is a threat to the country.
The one narrative that dogs Biden among his *supporters* (as opposed to the right-wing nonsense about Burisma or Hunter's laptop) is that he is too old. And tonight he turned those concerned into a full-fledged sunken stomach. Can this man govern for four more years if he seems incapable of forming mouth-words after careful debate preparation? To his credit, Biden's greatest asset is his humility and willingness to appoint actual experts to important positions, unlike his opponent who simply gives them to whoever pays the most, either in money or ass-slobber. Maybe a doddering old fool can be a perfectly capable President if he simply delegates decision-making to the right people.
But if his greatest concern (as he claims) is that a second Donald Trump Presidency will be a disaster for our nation, then he should do the right thing and just say, "I guess I'm not up to it any more." There's really no shame in it. I'm older now than I was three sentences ago.
I agree with you 100% I've really grown to admire and respect President Biden over the years. He has restored a level of decorum and efficacy that the previous 4 lacked. I will walk over glass to vote for him (and against Trump), but what he displayed tonight has finally made me see that it's time for the president to treat this existential threat to democracy as his priority and step down. I'm sad to say this.
We need a fighter who has the energy and mental acuity to take this fascist down. I have no doubt Biden could perform the job for another 4 years, but I doubt he'll be able to win after tonight and we have a potential generational lock of a right wing Supreme Court in the future if Trump wins.
If not him who? Republicans are incredibly good at villainizing prominent democrats in the eyes of the American public, Harris and Newsom poll even worse than he does. Bernie would've worked in the past but that ship has sailed. There's not another viable candidate who has the name recognition, the support of the voters, and the support of the party. It's Biden or bust. And while this debate was obviously not great it doesn't change the fact that he's still governed extremely well so personally this didn't really move the needle on my enthusiasm to vote for him.
Well thank god they spent a week wearing him down and hammering home all of these talking points that are turning out to be disastrous.
He needed a good performance, not a bullet point for each sentence of every topic.
Don’t know who prepped him for this, but they need to be removed from the campaign.
If people are going to vote for a felon who sold nuclear secrets and has made clear his intention to end democracy because of a fucking cold, maybe the U.S. deserves to fall as a civilization.
A cold? If this is how he performs while having a cold, we should thank God that colds are nearly impossible to catch once in a lifetime events. Oh, they're not? Well then that's the stupidest fucking excuse I've ever heard.
I don't even know what to say. I want Biden to win. He *must* win. So do. Fucking. Better.
Here comes the spin. Neither of these men should be leading us. Idk what the DNC was thinking but this race might be lost tonight alone. Trump is doing poor but Biden legit looks senile
The time for him to step down was months ago. But I’d still prefer to risk it and go with someone else. Trump is so unpopular people would love a hopefully younger alternative.
Tired of being told to hold back my truth because everyones so afraid of Trump. But after tonight I'm convinced that the only way to stop Trump is for Biden to go.
I personally would like two new candidates. But because this is what we've got ... Id rather a tired failing old man with the countries best interests at heart than a confident failing old man who would sell out the country if it increased his bottom line (or his ego)
Trump lied through the whole debate, but as others have pointed out, he did so confidently.
Biden muttered through the whole debate, getting lost once or twice.
In the end, I agree with Bidens policies more. This isn't a "perfect or nothing" election. It would have been a great election for a third party candidate. But we get Kennedy...
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Look, I know he stands on some principles, but some cold medicine and a red bull would've done absolute wonders
Or clearing his throat
We were screaming at the TV about why they didn't have water at those podiums. I've done work that involves lots of speaking, there's some good remedies as simple as honey and tea, or sprays. Did they do anything?!
They did have water. Was in the official list of rules. Maybe behind the podium
He seemed pretty doped up on cold medicines, which aren't well known to make you more alert. Honey and tea is good, but wouldn't really relieve the symptoms if you were active and talking. Most remedies that would leave him somewhat cohesive are not long lasting, and even a cold itself tends to make one foggy. Of course, going forward, everyone will forget what it's like to have a cold, so fun times ahead.
>Did they do anything?! What’s scary is they most likely did EVERYTHING and what we saw was the result.
God, if we end up in Nazi America because of a rhinovirus that is going to be the worst plot twist ever
Age and comorbidity may be risk factors for a poor outcome. As we saw last night. It is odd that by federal law commercial pilots are forced to retire at 60 for single pilot plane routes and 65 for multi-pilot plane routes. Median age of the House is 57.9 and the Senate 65.3, while Trump will be 78 during the election and Biden 82.
Respectfully, if you think a cold-induced rasp was the main issue here you may have missed the point. The man was, at times, utterly incoherent. It came across not that his stutter got the best of him, or he stumbled over his words as we all do at times - but that he was barely lucid and frankly looked like he could keel over at any moment. The cold didn’t help, but the problem is much bigger than that. Frankly Biden looked bad during the SOTU address. Pundits claiming he was vigorous and vital and that he quieted his doubters were disingenuous or blind. Biden absolutely legitimized age related fears during SOTU - being angry does not in of itself suggest vigor or lucidity. He appeared to struggle with his thoughts at the lectern multiple times and looked like he could collapse at any moment. Last night was worse, and now the reckoning.
I feel like that was making it worse.
A cold totally explains why he pivoted an abortion question into a mother being murdered by an illegal immigrant.
I can see the point he was trying to make — that the amount of women that have died or will die due to Roe v. Wade being overturned exceeds those killed in the rare high profile case. But because (in my opinion) of his stutter and the fact that Trump had him on the ropes the whole time made that difficult for him to say. I do not buy this cold thing regardless. It feels too reactionary. The wispiness and hoarseness of his voice, combined with his difficulties with stringing sentences together, made him sound a 1,000 years older than Trump, not three. Trump lied throughout the debate, but he did so confidentially. The things he was honest about — like Ukraine, climate change, the environment, and his defense of the rioters that took over the capital — were truly frightening, but again said confidently. That’s what people will remember. I worry for November.
The problem is the DNC should have been worried a long time ago, years ago and done some proactive work. Now they’re on the back foot and scrambling
Things can still turn around. There’s another debate. But I actually think Biden and the DNC's decision to have him run for a second term was malpractice and disgraceful. The should have considered what it would've been like for a man in his 80s to run against a true lunatic. They should have known better. This is not just any election year. There are emboldened scary people who want to be given the reigns and not let go.
I like Biden but this is infuriating, literally any younger democrat with the same policies would be walking over Trump.
Fuck, even with all of her problems, Harris running as a "continuation of the Biden administration," but with some of her own idea thrown in would be a good idea. You get to use the Biden name and everything he has done and give her credit for it as well since she was there by his side as VP. And you have A FUCKING PROSECUTOR on stage to eviscerate Trump.
They should’ve never pushed him 2020. They kept pushing this electability shit to say even if you don’t personally want Biden out of these choices, he is who everyone else will vote for so you need to get on wagon. I don’t think he’s been a bad president. If he were 20 years younger I’d vote for him with full confidence in him, not just to block his opponent from winning. Last night he looked like when it was time to move Pappy into assisted living
Or when he completely lost his train of thought speaking about Medicare
This is brutal.
I didn't have any idea it was this bad. I went from "I don't need to watch, we know how it's going to go" to "Ok, what are next steps?"
Project 2025 will ensure that I vote for Biden even if he’s stammering. But I worry about the massive amount of Americans who are willfully uninformed. They historically vote based on stupid shit. Kennedy beat Nixon because Nixon was sweaty in the debates. Howard Dean lost because of a scream. Clinton gained a ton of support for playing a saxophone on the Arsenio Hall Show.
The debates aren't there to convince party aligned voters, they're to convince "undecided" voters. Anyone who saw that without already knowing their vote in November is not confident about voting for Biden. The 1 term rumors seemed silly in 2020, but now I feel like it was a missed opportunity.
Biden definitely needed a glass of water. Trump needed to know how to stick to answering the question.
What he needed to do, or should have done, was just own it from the beginning: “By the way, to the folks tuning in at home and abroad, I’m fighting off a bit of a cold now, so I want to thank you in advance for bearing with my raspy voice tonight.” Something along those lines would have made him appear more personable and may have even given him some appeal in a sort of “aww-factor” way. Bc just going out there like that with zero explanation was way worse imo, especially for a first debate. Plus I’m sure some campaign writer could write a better, more personable disclaimer than I could ever think of.
I completely agree and was expecting to say something. Unfortunately it really ratcheted up the concern. He was very good at the last SOTU
Haha - I appreciate how much that actually sounds like him.
They would say the same thing about his age and health if he did that. There's no getting around his age and if he was sick people would say they're worried that he sounded so fragile from just a cold.
I remember Hilary hid her pneumonia in 2016 and conspiracies spiraled that she was terminally ill and only had weeks to live.
Was that what happened when she kinda collapsed or something in New York trying to get into a vehicle?
Right, but I think getting ahead of it would have been the leaders of the evils.
Yeah, not getting ahead of it means that all the people wanting to see how he'd be saw him speaking roughly and slowly while losing his train of thought, and turned it off thinking they've seen enough.
they're gonna do that anyway
Ya, even an admission of like "ya, I'm a little old, but I have good judgement and will be surrounding myself with a competent cabinet. Also, I don't want to literally destroy democracy as we know it or round up your friends and neighbors."
That was very close to my thoughts on how he should have handled that question. Play in his team, surrounding himself with strong people and reinforcing if something happens they can carry on. That was a missed opportunity
It wasn't the voice that I had issues with. Or the stuttering for that matter. We all saw it. We all saw that look. I'm going to vote for him but we ALL saw that look.
... What was the look? Old age? Tiredness?
What do you mean by that!? You know if we didn't have all those immigrants this wouldn't be a problem! *Sarcasm*
What those immigrants who are both on Medicare medicade and social security while also stealing all the black and Hispanic folks jobs??? That shit came out so fking racist I can’t believe no one called him on it but no one ever does. I know Biden face was shocked as fk but mics off makes that moot.
Biden wasn’t shocked by it. He never once refuted it and even brought it up on his own during the abortion topic for some reason
Biden doesn't need water. The only thing Biden needs right now is to Benjaman Button this shit. If he can't do that you guys are fucked. Either that or change leadership.
A sore throat is commonly known to cause you to forget how to talk
Did they not give them any water?
Not after Marco Rubio.
A week of prep and they never told him to close his mouth so he doesn’t look like a grandpa trying to use a touchscreen Coca Cola machine.
There were breaks
He also has an old.
The amount of comments saying that he just needed a glass of water…. Like we can’t be that delusional, can we?
Astroturfing and damage control
The Whataboutism in this thread is crazy. The top comment is a guy saying "Biden needed some water, Trump needed to learn how to answer a question honestly". No matter how water you give Biden, he can't answer a question.
Came down with a case of the eighties
This might go down as the worst cold in history.
Why couldn’t Biden pull together a Jordan flu game for us tonight, the nation needed it.
Because he's an 81-year-old man. Which is one of the reasons we probably shouldn't have an 81-year-old man in this position.
The nation needs this man to step down and a coherent individual to take his place
The worst cold in the history of colds, maybe ever
William Henry Harrison would like a word
Honestly, I believe the source... but I 100% understand people not believing it, because holy hell what kind of timing is this
I believe it, but I don’t believe a cold is responsible for anything other than his hoarse voice. The rest was normal Biden for the last four years.
Yeah. It would have been better to not say anything tbh.
Right. I saw nothing that surprised me. Was anyone really surprised by either performance? CNN blasting Bidens performance post debate was the only surprising thing that happened. Like, have these new anchors been so woefully unaware of the situation for the past 4 years? It felt like the democrats are using this opportunity to push him out.
It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. He looked pitiful. So did Trump, but Trump was not only on brand but gave his base exactly what they expected. Biden did none of that all while looking weak during the debate, and his campaign is now pushing lame excuses which also looks weak. Biden won by holding Trump accountable to his BS (that didn’t happen), presenting a plan to move forward with (barely happened), and appearing strong (also didn’t happen). This debate was Biden’s to lose not Trump’s to win. Biden shot himself in the foot, reloaded, and shot some more.
I have to move apartments today and I woke up with a terrible cold
Yeah we can tell, awesome that a cold could decide the fate of the nation.
The American public has a very short memory, and there’s a long time to go until the election. It’s way too early to be proclaiming this to be the watershed moment
This image of Biden will be an enduring picture of a president who has hung around too long. He isn’t going to be able to spin this with an A++ debate showing next time.
No chance Trump does another debate now. None.
Many people on this sub were saying five weeks ago after the debates were agreed and announced that there'd be no chance Trump **wouldn't** drop out of the debates...
Yep. I remember seeing tons of people saying Trump would chicken out of the debate because he'd be afraid to face Biden. The idea that he'd have anything to be afraid of there seems pretty laughable now, unfortunately
I kind of thought people have lost the plot if they thought trump was going to chicken out. I mean trump literally looks at biden like hes a lost old man at some old folks home and cant even walk anymore. There was zero chance trump was every going to "chicken out" against biden when he literally thinks bottom of the barrel about the guy.
I think that depends on the ratings. If Trump felt like this was an ego boost he'll be on camera demanding Biden do 10 more within 48 hrs .
If I'm Trump, seeing what I saw last night, I'd sign up for a full debate tour as loudly as possible.
This is just wishful thinking. There is a lot at stake here and Democrats need to take this very seriously.
A cold doesn't make him lose his train of thought or never look into the camera (the latter is the fault of his staff, not so much him). There's so many problems from that debate that have nothing to do with a cold and it's honestly insulting for them to roll it out in damage control and try to gaslight people. Trump sucks. I'll vote for Biden if it's too narcissistic to drop out for someone else. But holy fuck what a nightmare. We should never have been able to get here and it is an abject failure of the Democratic party that we are.
It's not just a cold though. Plenty of people can competently argue and have reasonable discussions while they have a cold. It's the fact the Dems are so weak they have served this retiree up as their best presidential candidate. He is so old and weak he is prone to sickness, and even more debilitated than normal when he does actually get sick. All of these factors are the least they should be taking into account when choosing who represents their party and values. Imagine a Democrat party who has the guts to get this guy to stand down, and they actually put forward a president the people can get behind. It honestly doesnt take much at all to out maneuver an idiot like Trump. But nope, these parties are run by absolute idiots and all we get is weakness and (mental/physical) sickness.
should have postponed it then the opitics of his start looked like Quimby vs Sideshow Bob
Flames added electronically by CNN.
I don't know if that's true or not, but he REALLY did poorly tonight. Hopefully the next debate proves otherwise, because at this point, he's digging our countries grave by remaining in the running instead of stepping down like he should have.
If I am Trump I stall out of another debate before the election it will do him no good
The only hope is Trump being so narcissistic and loving to play the bully so much that he agrees to do it regardless. I could actually see that happening.
The person on CBS who reported this said she asked what's wrong in the *beginning* and they got silence for 45 minutes before they started texting telling her a cold. Also we heard him with a cold before. [His voice gets deeper.](https://twitter.com/ettingermentum/status/1806512760819183940)
That seems pretty clear. He couldn’t clear his throat right from the beginning.
I thought he sounded like shit compared to sound bytes from even just a week ago. A cold may have just significantly changed history...
He sounded this bad at a D-Day interview. Turned to my partner and we were like *whoa* and then turned on the debate tonight and were like *he’s still like that oh no.*
I am beyond confused. You're right, he sounded raspy 3 weeks ago during a D-day interview. But he sounded fine 2 weeks ago delivering a Juneteenth speech. And then yesterday night at this debate, he sounded raspy again. Did he have 2 colds in the last month or his voice bipolar.
Or during the commercial breaks? He said great things, but that message is lost due to poor delivery.
Joe usually has throat problems though. It's not abnormal. He's always raspy these days. I just watched him in France and he was raspy.
That's not a good thing
No shit lol I'm telling this person it's not just because he's sick
I wish he would have just said that during his first opportunity to speak. It would have put the whole evening in a different context. He looked and sounded terrible. And that’s all a lot of people are going to take away from tonight.
Before we start, I'd just like to say I have a cold so my performance tonight is going to be absolutely diabolical. Thanks for your understanding.
I was thinking more of a polite, perfunctory, “Pardon my cough and my hoarse voice. I have a cold.”
State of the Union Joe had to show up and he didn't. He was his usual self where he spoke softly near mumbling and I will say this over and over again. PERCEPTION IS REALITY. You have one chance to make a good impression and he failed. Trump was just his lying self but sadly the average American doesn't think. You just hope Biden's surrogates come through and pound the pavement.
I think the SoTU made the Democratic party overconfident and expected him to have a similar appearance tonight. This poor performance is something people have been warning against for years, yet Democrats again fail to heed criticism and are surprised when the inevitable happens. It happened with Hillary's FBI investigation, it's happening with Biden's age, and it will happen again in the future.
Joe Biden could be a golden retriever and it would be an improvement over a guarantee of a fascist piece of shit.
He doesn’t even have to be a golden retriever, I’d take a Junkyard Cur.
Biden needed to pretend Trump wasn't even there. Answer the questions, state your record and policy plans. When appropriate, contrast to your opponent's record. Going tit for tat in real-time with someone that makes things up and lies constantly is fruitless. And now we get to spend a week in disaster recovery instead of a draw or victory lap.
Yea. Trump lies loudly and Biden says the truth quietly
Trump lies anytime he speaks, but Biden repeated several things that were debunked by snopes and other sources too.
Just be glad this is happening in June and that the average voter’s memory is short (part of why I think they did this early). He has time to recover from a poor performance. If he can come back for the second debate in September and bring the Dark Brandon vibes, this probably won’t move the needle much. And on the other hand, the absolute meltdown happening on the news outlets makes me think the economy has to be getting better. Record numbers of people going on vacation, Joe starting to beat Trump on the polls, they needed a new five-alarm fire to make us all anxious again…
Voter memory is short, but maga is good at keeping people whipped up
If it was a cold this is Nixon/Kennedy 2.0. But Biden rebutted almost no Trump attacks. There are no post birth abortions. Roe did not all abortion in the third trimester. Trump taking credit for things passed by Obama. Trump will not help with childcare. The optics for Biden may be unrecoverable.
Are. Are unrecoverable. Biden just gave them four months of the most damaging attack ads possible.
Last time I had a cold I didn’t have my train of thought derail every 10 seconds and just stare off into the void at random. Really though, how are these our fucking choices? It’s a disgrace, truly. Biden’s drifting into senility and Trump’s literally a fascist. How did we get here?
Its just damage control propaganda His brain is cooked
1) First Past the Post voting inevitably leads to a two party system, heavily reducing competition for the fittest ideas, policies, and candidates 2) Citizens United ensures that the two party duopoly works for wealthy donors and corporations, not average citizens
Clearly. I’d still rather have him and his relationship with facts & truth.
I agree but only because Trump is a psychopath.. Unfortunately, considering how close Trump came in 2020 this is getting scary.
Trump is going to win because people are fucking stupid. I already feel it in my butthole.
I wouldn’t give up all hope after last night - Biden didn’t kill it by any means but Trump did not tell the truth. Do what you can, get out and vote, get other people to vote, get involved, stay positive. Most of all, don’t believe the media’s spin - make no mistake they want to make this race as close as they can for ratings and money. Also, many of them wouldn’t mind if Trump won because of ratings and money.
Trump did not tell the truth…. You think that matters to swing voters at this stage???? Everyone knows Trump now. If people are not already turned off by his lies, they never will be.
Trump not telling the truth has never mattered.
I think Biden potentially did kill it, if "it" is his campaign. Telling the truth unfortunately has nothing to do with anything in a presidential campaign. Honesty isn't how we pick presidents
Sad, but 100% true.
The after show said it perfectly, it's a vote for Trump or a vote for President Kamala Harris. At this point I'm still willing to take the later to avoid Trump.
Facts and truth don’t matter though, what matters is how people feel
What cold? What source? Biden should have opened the debate by saying "Sorry for my voice tonight. I have a bit of a cold. This man over here is a lying, cheating criminal who should have never been President of our great country and should never be again."
Welp, we’re fucked
For real, everyone here saying “yeah but Trump lied”. You think that matters at this stage?? Everyone knows Trump, anyone half considering voting for him is already comfortable with his lying ass.
It’s definitely cope. That was about as worst case scenario as possible. I couldn’t even finish watching from second hand embarrassment and I know I ain’t the only one.
It's honestly insane, so many people are going "don't care, still voting for Biden". That's not who the debates are for. They're for undecided voters, who are 100 percent gonna be swayed by that absolute shit show of a performance.
You can't win in 2024 without reaching independent voters. The right wing narrative that JB has dementia is, for all intents and purposes, confirmed. The truth doesn't matter. Perception is that Joe Biden did not look well. He didn't look like someone fighting a cold. He can't recover from this.
Someone in his camp has to be an inside agent because there's no way you let this debate happen when he sounds the way he sounds right now.
There's also no way you can possibly pull out of the debate without looking just as awful/cowardly. I think the campaign made the less-bad choice here - a bad debate performance can be overcome much easier than Trump hounding Biden for running away for the next 5 months.
He should have opened the debate with a joke about having a cold or something, and could have jokingly mentioned it a few more times throughout the debate. It would have been humanizing and half the country wouldn't be talking about whether or not he was dying of old age
Then it would be a lose-lose for him to back out, making him look weak
Given how he presented, which would’ve been worse? Not doing it at all or what we saw?
Honestly, not doing it at all. He would’ve been clowned on for being a coward (and rightfully so). It’s just a shame he had such an atrocious showing, and an even bigger blight on American politics that these two senile geezers are our only choices.
If Biden backs out, Trump stands there and spreads lies the entire time with no opposition or physical fact checker beside him saying it is. If Biden backs out, every single Republican and right wing media outlet would spam Biden is too frail and weak to show up to debate the big strong manchild. If Biden backs out, every Democrat begins questioning Biden's capability as a leader. It would be a massive fucking L for the Democrats if he didn't show up. What he needs to do is release a video online afterward answering every question that was asked of citing he couldn't in the debate due to calling out Trump on all his lies and non-answers.
You're trying to tell me that those video clips are not worse than backing out of a debate? Sure, there would be stories for weeks, but holy shit, the first like 30 minutes of that thing were jaw-droppingly embarrassing. This debate should've been a layup. The entire narrative was "all he has to do is not look old" and he looked super old.
Can't really reschedule a national debate because you got a cold.
Yes he sounded terrible, but what got me, more than anything, was the blank stare he did occasionally. He didnt look good or well.
This debate seriously looked like elder abuse
if we finally beat Medicare
They also cut him off right at that moment.
He was about to freeze like mitch
or freeze like biden? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vpIF65ISZU the party is making mistake once again and is putting up extremely an weak candidate against trump
Because he was bumbling like an idiot who couldn’t get his words out. The moderator saved joe from embarrassment, or at least attempted to
Damage was already done at that point. A simple “I yield my time” when he first started tripping up would’ve been better
basically handing trump a gift-wrapped soundbyte. What the fuck.
there's a lot of footage from tonight of biden looking old as fuck. from his voice to losing his words to just not being able to debate like a lively person
Nah. They saved Biden by cutting off there. It would have been worse if he kept talking
I think I caught one watching it tonight. I was feeling fine before.
Biden looked aimless and incoherent. No fan of Trump but dems fucked this real good
Absurd levels of cope all around. Read any mainstream media article coming out now. Terrible performance overall. Post-debate discussions are immediately revolving around finding a new candidate. Having a cold doesn't make you stop speaking mid sentence. We're absolutely fucked as a country if this is the best we got to go against Donald Trump and can't even recognize how dire the situation is.
There was like a 15 second pause I thought my bluetooth in my car stopped working lol
Wow it’s like the Michael Jordan flu game if instead of scoring 38 points Michael Jordan had sat on the bench making weird faces and speaking incoherently and the Bulls lost to Utah by 40 points and then the Jazz became authoritarian dictators and dismantled the NBA.
Tonight was *bad* for Biden, Jesus
Cut the shit. The DNC made their bed, now we all have to sleep in it. Fucking asshats.
Be careful before you’re accused of being a Russian or Chinese bot
I’ll never forgive them for installing Biden as the 2020 nominee.
Or Joe's unwillingness to step aside. He's doing the same thing RBG did. If he doesn't do it himself and back out of the race he's addicted to the power. There is no way he gets off that stage and thinks he's doing what's best to beat Trump. He calls Trump a threat to Democracy yet won't admit that he might be handing him the white house by staying.
47 posts and I can't see shit. This might be the most broken I've ever seen Reddit.
Guys. Keep it together. If Trump wins we never get to see the outcome of the trials for J6, election fraud, and stealing classified docs. He is a threat to the country.
What you're saying is totally true which is why it would be ideal to have someone besides the fucking cryptkeeper running against him
That's funny. You think you're going to see the outcomes regardless for those trials?
Pointing out that the sky is blue is not what makes the sky blue. That was a complete disaster for Biden and pretending otherwise is pointless.
What happened to all the comments?
MAGA when Trump busts out an outlandish conspiracy theory: We believe him! MAGA when a guy has a cold: Liar!
Nah but like, claiming a cold is the biggest cope ever
Claiming it after the fact too. Just massive cope.
You sound foolish. This cold story is the icing on the cake.
The one narrative that dogs Biden among his *supporters* (as opposed to the right-wing nonsense about Burisma or Hunter's laptop) is that he is too old. And tonight he turned those concerned into a full-fledged sunken stomach. Can this man govern for four more years if he seems incapable of forming mouth-words after careful debate preparation? To his credit, Biden's greatest asset is his humility and willingness to appoint actual experts to important positions, unlike his opponent who simply gives them to whoever pays the most, either in money or ass-slobber. Maybe a doddering old fool can be a perfectly capable President if he simply delegates decision-making to the right people. But if his greatest concern (as he claims) is that a second Donald Trump Presidency will be a disaster for our nation, then he should do the right thing and just say, "I guess I'm not up to it any more." There's really no shame in it. I'm older now than I was three sentences ago.
I agree with you 100% I've really grown to admire and respect President Biden over the years. He has restored a level of decorum and efficacy that the previous 4 lacked. I will walk over glass to vote for him (and against Trump), but what he displayed tonight has finally made me see that it's time for the president to treat this existential threat to democracy as his priority and step down. I'm sad to say this. We need a fighter who has the energy and mental acuity to take this fascist down. I have no doubt Biden could perform the job for another 4 years, but I doubt he'll be able to win after tonight and we have a potential generational lock of a right wing Supreme Court in the future if Trump wins.
If not him who? Republicans are incredibly good at villainizing prominent democrats in the eyes of the American public, Harris and Newsom poll even worse than he does. Bernie would've worked in the past but that ship has sailed. There's not another viable candidate who has the name recognition, the support of the voters, and the support of the party. It's Biden or bust. And while this debate was obviously not great it doesn't change the fact that he's still governed extremely well so personally this didn't really move the needle on my enthusiasm to vote for him.
I mean he’s also really damn old. That was tough to watch
He should have started the debate with a joke about how Trump must have given him Covid again.
Well thank god they spent a week wearing him down and hammering home all of these talking points that are turning out to be disastrous. He needed a good performance, not a bullet point for each sentence of every topic. Don’t know who prepped him for this, but they need to be removed from the campaign.
You can tell. He has a cough.
He’s sounded like this for the past 6 months.
Cold? More like old age. He should be enjoying the last few years of his life instead of looking like a lost elder. It is sad to look at.
If people are going to vote for a felon who sold nuclear secrets and has made clear his intention to end democracy because of a fucking cold, maybe the U.S. deserves to fall as a civilization.
I had a suspicion but then why wasn't this disclosed? What an awful performance from that whole team tonight.
A cold? If this is how he performs while having a cold, we should thank God that colds are nearly impossible to catch once in a lifetime events. Oh, they're not? Well then that's the stupidest fucking excuse I've ever heard. I don't even know what to say. I want Biden to win. He *must* win. So do. Fucking. Better.
have any republicans in the media asked Trump to step aside for the good of the country?
He should be wearing a mask if he’s sick honestly
He has an OLD. Not a cold.
the coarse voice isn't what people are concerned about
Here comes the spin. Neither of these men should be leading us. Idk what the DNC was thinking but this race might be lost tonight alone. Trump is doing poor but Biden legit looks senile
My only hope is it’s June. Plenty of time to get back on track. Or have Biden step down
The time for him to step down was months ago. But I’d still prefer to risk it and go with someone else. Trump is so unpopular people would love a hopefully younger alternative.
Biden has a cold, source with human eyeballs and human ears says.
[удалено]
Tired of being told to hold back my truth because everyones so afraid of Trump. But after tonight I'm convinced that the only way to stop Trump is for Biden to go.
Goddamn well said.
If this is true. It's a costly cold.
Weird how the cold wasn’t mentioned until after he bombed so hard.
Sounds more like he over-practiced for the debate and his voice is shot
Maybe it’s an 81 year old cold? Sheeet
He was 100% desperately in need of a cough drop.
"145 comments" *no comments visible*
WTF is wrong with comments?
There were 0 solutions by Trump. Same old they say, everyone knows, everything was great, America is a third world country. Scary mindestb
Damage control
copium
They really should have released the "has a cold" bit *before* the debate...
Did we all watched his SOTU not that long ago and he fucking crushed. He had a bad night, but it was probably the WORST night to have a bad night.
Oh phew. That explains everything
I personally would like two new candidates. But because this is what we've got ... Id rather a tired failing old man with the countries best interests at heart than a confident failing old man who would sell out the country if it increased his bottom line (or his ego) Trump lied through the whole debate, but as others have pointed out, he did so confidently. Biden muttered through the whole debate, getting lost once or twice. In the end, I agree with Bidens policies more. This isn't a "perfect or nothing" election. It would have been a great election for a third party candidate. But we get Kennedy...