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Idk. But if it was cause he took adderall… why in gods name did he not take it again for this debate…… what the hell.
I’d rather have a president who uses Adderall occasionally than a fascist orange dictator
I'm watching clips of the debate right now. Biden clearly has a cold. The way everyone has been talking like he bombed totally. He just sounds like he's congested.
I watched it live. Right Biden sounded bad with the raspiness. But I didn't think it was the disaster that everyone seems to think it was. Trumo lied and avoided answering any question by constantly bringing up immigration. Biden answered questions clearly with a few exceptions where he got lost in the weeds of responding to the absolute bullshit that Trump was saying.
It wasn't a good debate for Biden by any means but from my perspective both of them showed us exactly who they are. An old man narcissist pathological liar and a competent but stuttering old man. Both choices kinda suck, one sucks waaay less.
It didn’t help that the moderators who said prior that they would be fact checking claims particularly about 2020 election and Jan 6 fact checked literally nothing and simply allowed Trump to lie constantly. But then what should we have expected from CNN.
Why not drop a fact check quickly before the next question? It's not like they don't know how, they do it all the time in interviews. The media should be unbiased on issues, but they should not be unbiased about facts and things that literally happened
They should have an additional person with the hosts fact checking live. It took me five seconds to google which presidents had the worst economies, it wasn’t Biden as Trump claims.
Thank you it’s like the media gaslighting everyone. It wasn’t that bad. Trump never answered a question and lied. He called our nation a 3rd world nation.
And repeatedly promised he would end the war if elected before even being sworn in. Which is either complete bullshit like everything else he promises, or admitting that his relationship to Putin is shady under the table deals and corruption. My bet is on utter bullshit
Putin could end the war instantly by getting out of Ukraine - the only way the West could end it is by forcing the Ukrainians out of Ukraine and handing it over to Putin. Unfortunately I don’t think Trump sees anything wrong with doing that.
Like don't get me wrong. It wasn't a good performance by Biden. But it is crazy to me that people keep repeating the CNN line that it was a disaster. It wasn't good, but he didn't answer a question about January 6th or climate change by talking about the border. Trump was incoherent because he was incoherent. Biden messed to a few times but he actually had relevant answers instead of ranting like some guy in a Denny's parking lot
It wasnt a disaster for well informed politcal junkies like most of us in this sub, but to the average folk they'll see one guy freezing on camera and staring into the abyss, and the other guy being much more energized. Even though he lied about pretty much everything, it'll go right over their head.
The very first televized presidential debate of JFK vs Nixon, people who listened on the radio thought Nixon won, people who watched thought JFK won. Presidential elections in america are unfortunately decided on optics rather than substance. The taller and more attractive candidates usually win.
Yup. For the kind of people like us, that are in this thread at all, we know the facts and that Trump was just making shit up as he went while Biden was stumbling occasionally over the truth.
Most of the electorate aren't like us. They don't know all the facts, but what they do know is how they feel when listening to two completely opposite characters on a stage. One was confident and maybe a little charasmatic, while the other seemed a bit overwhelmed and unsure of exactly what he was trying to say.
For those people who aren't us, Biden's performance was unequivocally a disaster.
I also watched it live and it was the worst performance I’ve ever seen in a debate. It doesn’t matter if at some point, in a transcript review perhaps, somebody can parse what Biden said and compare it to the ramblings and lies of Trump…in real time it was tragic and gave the impression that Biden was about to shuffle off this mortal coil. Sadly, most American voters only care about superficial performance, and by that metric this was an abject failure. I cannot express how disappointed I am that Biden decided to run for a second term and the DNC thought this would be a good idea in the most important election of our lives.
We all recognize that the election is going to be close, much closer than the number of voters who will decide based on which one appears to still have the energy of a 70 year old instead of a 90 year old and not based on the policies.
Biden’s primary issue was that he lost his voice/was hoarse and additionally was trying to speak too quickly. I assume he over-practiced. They should have had him on vocal rest leading up to the debate so this didn’t happen.
-What was with the audio/mics, why did they not adjust things to make Biden’s voice come through clearer (even Trump’s had some distortion) Instead it washed his voice out.
CNN also did both of them dirty with the
- extremely harsh lighting used. Such lighting tends to wash out paler skin tones.
-CNN also did not bother to fact check. I am seriously wondering how this was set up and moderated so poorly. And if it was intentional or not. It’s like an amateur was directing the set-up of the debate . Like wtf, how do you not figure out how to properly adjust the lighting and audio. Lack of fact-check was shameful
Trump’s primary issue is that he couldn’t string a coherent sentence together and was perseverating on the same 4-5 buzzwords about “the border.” It’s like his mind kept short-circuiting and was trying to return to factory settings
Most all of your points can be answered the same way. It’s CNN. Do not get it twisted the moderators plan from the beginning was zero follow up and no fact check (despite statements to the contrary) because they dare not risk their precious access to the lie spewing maga crowd
>Trump’s primary issue is that he couldn’t string a coherent sentence together and was perseverating on the same 4-5 buzzwords about “the border.” It’s like his mind kept short-circuiting and was trying to return to factory settings
I think this debate format actually helped Trump.
His biggest downfall for most listeners is that the longer he is allowed to talk, the more insane his ramblings become. Actually stopping his bullshit train from going off the rails by cutting his mic every couple minutes ends up making him appear *more* competent.
Same song he's been playing for years now. He was claiming that the election was rigged against him since before any votes were cast in 2016. He even kept it going after he won to claim that he really won the popular vote but fraud was somehow involved.
He really doesn't have any new material....
But it *does* make Biden look better. How can anyone consider any alternative?
And one other thing:
Did everyone forget that the VP and 25th amendment is a thing that exists? Worst case scenario with Biden is actually still better than Trump.
That would be great if you were the deciding factor in the election but other people vote also and we will see how this performance changes the minds of others if it does.
I think right now maybe, but what Trump said tonight is going to get more play in the coming days. Right now everyone is focused on Biden being old and not the crazy shit Trump keeps saying.
Ok, but which of Trump's answers made sense? I loved when he said he didn't bang a porn star. Like just because he can lie well doesn't mean he has a fucking clue what's going on in the world.
The thing is that Biden has certain standards and expectations to live up to, whereas Trump does not. Biden's biggest disadvantage against Trump is not having a cult following.
I understand Trump rambles, lies, is a traitor, and is a moron. This isn’t about his base. His base isn’t changing. This is about people who might have voted for Biden who now probably won’t bother at all which only helps Trump.
Republicans fall in line.
Democrats fall in love.
On election day, Trump could be in a wheelchair, drooling on himself, and shouting obscenities at everyone around him, but the Republican base would still vote for him.
Biden is already dealing with the young "Genocide Joe" voters who think the Democrats are going into the Middle East to kill every Palestinian. And he has to win over the "independent" voters who are still on the fence about whether to vote for Trump or Biden.
If the young "Genocide Joe" voters stay home, and the "independent" voters break for Trump, and Trump ekes out small victories in swing states like Michigan or Pennsylvania or Arizona, well then... there you go. That's it.
I see a lot people saying this but it’s not about the people like you. I don’t know which sane person watched the debate and thinks Biden is fit enough for four more years as president. Trump neither but Biden performed so bad that he took off the focus of all the lies Trump told. This debate couldn’t have gone worse. I can’t see Biden convincing any undecided voter with this performance. He underlined that his age concerns are very valid which was the worst thing that could have happened.
While I feel the same way, you yourself and I myself are not the only deciding factors in who wins the election. Moral grandstanding like this, even if morally correct, is not equivalent to a smart political strategy to win.
Democrats are correct in saying it is vital that Trump loses. That's exactly why Biden must drop out, and that's never been clearer than tonight. A politician has to be a good *politician* in order to win, and Biden is no longer capable of that. Being the morally correct choice and losing has exactly the same impact on policy as being the morally incorrect choice and losing. Winning is of utmost importance.
Bro has more than just a stammer. He unironically sounds like he’s got early stages of dementia or Alzheimer’s.
Even his performance from 4 years ago was LIGHT years better than this. Unless he shoots it out of the part at the next debate (somehow), he’s cooked and fucked us all for not stepping the fuck aside.
Biden looked old and confused it was very bad but let’s be honest here 5 months out and this could be buried under a mountain of other shit. The public has the memory of a goldfish.
Running Biden for president again should be considered elderly abuse
I live in.swing state and despite Biden's feebleness I'm voting democratic. I'm voting based on the party platform and not on the person. But I'm worried this will move the needle enough in the republicans direction that states like mine will flip to Trump. Crap.
>Will crawl over broken glass to vote Biden to defeat the convicted felon, proven rapist and insurrectionist traitor.
Same here. Biden and his team (or whoever is making things happen behind the scenes) have exceeded my expectations these past 3+ years. I'll vote for him again in November (provided he's still alive then).
Trump just spouted lies but he did it with energy and for the Trump faithful with surface level intellect, that’s good nuff.
God, Biden looked painfully weak (as seen through the lens of the MAGA morons) and that was my bigger concern because it will give political hay to the right wing news machines/online trolls who will invariably jump on it.
Neither came away looking better than when they started even though it is plain as day that Biden is the only sane choice. Biden just made himself all that much harder to sell. Let’s hope round two goes better.
The issue is the independent vote. If you are sitting at home not committed to either party it’s real difficult to come to the conclusion that Biden is fit for the job. Loyal MAGA will vote Trump no matter what. Loyal dems will vote Biden no matter what. Those are know quantities. The election is decided by the space in between those two and I don’t see this debate helping Biden in any way with the middle.
Why do they panic now? Wasn't this obvious year ago? Biden was supposed to be a 1 term president to get Trump out of office. That's it. Why the F is he running for reelection? We're all going to suffer for his hubris.
"But it's fine, the liberals/centrists are the adults in charge and know best. The childish progressives should stop calling things out and helping the GOP... Oh shit, they were right again and now we're fucked. Let's blame the progressives for drawing attention to it instead of owning our mistake. If they hadn't pointed it out years ago, no one would have noticed." - Their likely reasoning
It's so frustrating with the Boomers,yes,you did some good things.but this Ruth Bader syndrome,seems to affect them as a generation. "Only I can defeat Trump" Really? Biden had so many opportunities to deliver that knockout punch with every lie that spewed out of Trump's mouth,but instead he stood there like a Mitch McConnell. It's really too late to say this,but the Boomers should have stood aside years ago and let other generations bring forth their own Kennedys, Clintons and Obamas.
Biden is part of the silent generation. He's fucking older than boomers. Even the generation that is popular to hate on and call old and out of touch is younger than Biden.
I know people didn’t like him for a number of reasons but watching Pete Buttigeig stand up to Perry the other day with a sharp retort, rebuttal, and firm command of the facts and figures made me wish he, or someone like him, had been on stage against Trump.
He’s my generation and I feel like it’s our turn to run some stuff and not have our grandparents and parents still controlling things.
That's because the rich fucks who really run it would not actually be served by any kind of leftist success. They love to campaign and fundraise on the idea of progressive change, but they don't want to actually catch that car, it would affect their bottom lines. That's why the dream of universal healthcare that got Obama elected, turned into... mandatory participation in the capitalist hellforge of our insurance industry. Cool.
Because they tried hard to keep Biden out of this exact situation. They hoped with enough prep and very constrained debate rules they could get him across the finish line. The problem is that now that it’s all laid bare people have to face how bad the situation is.
Yep. If you even mentioned concerns you were labeled as a trump supporter. We are just supposed to pretend nothing is happening. Hopefully now people get it.
Honestly, before Biden won the primary, I thought Biden would retire and give rise to Harris. Look, Trump is blaming all of his lawsuits and troubles on Biden specifically. If Biden suddenly steps down and Harris takes over, how could you blame your legal troubles on the new candidate who was never president? I'm wondering if they held off because of the strenuous delay in Trump's legal proceedings. You throw a young candidate in for Biden and you're a shoe in.
What primary? They never seriously had one because they were so adamant about his capability and vigor to run it back.
Biden's administration not only stifled that issue when there was a chance to have a real primary, they called and pushed to make this debate happen.
I think even running Hillary again would be better than running Harris.
Realistically it probably needs to be neither. But at least Hillary has name recognition which will be super important for a late nominated candidate
Completely. Everyone citing these precedents about incumbents seem to keep forgetting that we are in uncharted waters at this point so historical trends start to lose their edge.
>Why the F is he running for reelection?
The power of incumbency is a real thing. Start with a fresh candidate and you lose that advantage, likely pitting some relative nobody against the guy with a dedicated following of lunatics that would lick his shoes and call it icecream.
It’s the optics. Whether or not Biden is up to the job, that debate didn’t look well.
If you watch Biden talk at length throughout his presidency, at rallys, summits, Congressional addresses, etc., he’s fine. He’s a little slower, sure, but he has all his wits about him. Everything the GOP has tried to throw at Biden’s age and capability thus far has been utter poppycock, from manipulating clips to asserting he uses PEDs. There’s been little actual concern from the Democrats, who are scared absolutely shitless of a second Trump term, because in Biden there’s little to actually be concerned about.
Tonight though he didn’t look all that good, but that’s not because the MAGA conspiracies that Biden is really an addled old man who’s off his rocker is actually true, he was just sick, and being sick and going up against the firehouse of lies that is Trump would lead to a poor performance for anybody. It was just an utter shit roll of the dice. If he wasn’t sick, this may have been an entirely different debate. But he was sick, and he did have a poor performance, so it doesn’t matter what could have been.
It doesn’t matter if up until now Biden hadn’t had a public performance that poorly, and if until the Election Day he never does again. What matters is a lot of people already have concerns in their mind and this *singular* performance confirms those biases and will continue to plague Biden conversationally going forward.
Democrats are freaking out because regardless of the reality of the situation this *looked really bad*. And unlike Raegan in ‘84, he doesn’t have another debate in a few weeks to give him another go to change perceptions.
They hadn’t freaked out before because there’s nothing actually to be concerned about with Biden. But the optics of him looking and sounding like he did, and performing as he did, even if it’s just a fluke and not a good representation of the reality of the situation- those optics alone can bury him.
It’s just *really, really, really bad optics*. And a lot of politics is showmanship and optics. That’s why Trump does so well, even if he is selling snake oil and lies, and why Biden, regardless of how he seems the other 364 days of the year, is in a much more precarious situation now.
I can’t understand why the DNC insists on going with him. The main (valid) arguments for voting for him have nothing to do with the man himself - it’s a vote against fascism, Project 2025, the end of democracy as we know it, etc. Those arguments all still hold if you swap him out with Kamala, Newsom, or literally any other Democrat.
I can’t imagine a voter who is enthusiastically pro-Biden who also wouldn’t still vote for any other Dem alternative. At this point he is literally just a figurehead for the idea of saving democracy and everyone who is voting for him is like “I would vote for literally anyone over that other piece of shit.” What is there to lose by switching to a more competent alternative?
This is the part that gets me. The best defense anyone seems to have is that they don't care how bad the performance was, and they would vote for anyone, a corpse, an inanimate object, etc., over Trump, therefore Biden should stay. Vote blue no matter who and all that
That's not the defense of Biden they think it is. None of those votes would be lost if he does drop out, so why not put in someone that people might actually vote for, instead of relying purely on anti-Trump sentiment?
My brother said this was a left-wing propaganda piece. He talked about it being CNN, the leftist ties of the moderators, a two-minute delay. I just texted him, because it's after 1 a.m. here, if he will at least admit he was wrong. I'm interested to hear what he says.
I was very disappointed. I had the house to myself. I made a pizza from scratch to enjoy as I watched. I had to stop watching after about 10 minutes in order to not barf up my pizza. The mistake I made was assuming this would be a normal debate. It was not. And this is not a normal election. This isn’t good faith politics or business as usual and it certainly isn’t entertainment. This is fucking serious and I feel sick now.
Neither man won. Trump was a nonstop firehose of bullshit and lies and whined constantly like a five year old. Biden was clearly off his feed and looked like he had a bad cold.
Afterward, in front of a live crowd at a watch party, Biden seemed to come to life again. Maybe he needs an audience more than Bloatboy does.
These debates aren’t for decided voters, they’re for people on the fence. And people on the fence don’t see Trump in the same absolute horror show the majority of us on Reddit do.
Having said that, Trump absolutely won. He lied and bullshitted but Joe just looked and sounded so frail and unfit to be a president. Trump probably picked up some undecided voters but worse Biden probably lost a lot who will just stay home rather than vote.
Dems are such idiots tbh (I say this as a progressive person). It was obvious he was a one term guy. They’re never brave enough to do the shit that needs done.
The problem is deeper than that. It all stems back to trying to sandbag Bernie to force Hillary down everyone’s throat because she felt entitled to be the first female president after growing up Republican, pretending to be southern with a fake Arkansas accent, then moving to New York to represent a state that she didn’t really live in previously, all while putting up with her husband’s numerous public affairs. Entitlement, nepotism, and machine politics will be the downfall of the Democratic party and possibly American democracy as a whole. But I will still take a dry mouthed stuttering yet coherent Biden over a guy that speaks in ABSOLUTE hyperbole at all times to cover the fact that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I can’t listen to Trump ramble on for one more second with “you know what they say, they’re saying this is the most worst thing in the history of the country ever, that’s what they’re saying, you should see the numbers, have you seen these numbers? its horrible, they’re laughing at us.” He is obviously full of shit like a kid doing a book report that never read the book. If anyone is dumb enough to buy his bullshit then fuck em. I will take the Weekend at Bernie’s version of Biden over the fascist downfall of America any day.
> accept the debate with trump
Even worse, his campaign proposed it. People need to be fired, and I mean that in a very serious & considered way.
Forget the fact that he was clearly sick and not at his best, that's mostly bad luck. Failing to mention that Trump is a felon until almost 45 minutes in — *and letting him bring it up first* — is some of the worst preparation & political strategy I've ever seen. They fundamentally misunderstood the mission tonight considering the answers Biden came in with.
The most glaring mistake by biden was allowing trump any air at all on the border thing. "I sat down with the GOP and gave them everything they wanted in a border bill, and this guy over here tanked it because he wanted to campaign on it. Now he's here saying all of this awful border stuff, most if which isn't even true, but lets be honest folks - he caused it. Whatever is happening at the order because he tanked the bill is on him. "
There were so many things Biden left on the table:
“My opponent continues to deny that he raped E Jean Carroll and now he’s saying he didn’t have an affair with a porn star. Could he please clarify?”
“I heard that my opponent has an excellent probation officer”
“Ask my opponent if he will finally concede that I beat him in 2020”
“Was it 6000 or 7000 votes you asked the Georgia State Department to ‘find’”
The list goes on and on.
If the only way to win an election is to avoid having the usual presidential debates, then maybe that person shouldn't have been the nominee in the first place.
I think this was the intended result. They have been in debate prep with him for days at Camp David there is no way his team would of been caught off guard by this.
Fair play to them if that's the case. If you know he would do just as badly in an October debate, go ahead and throw him up there before the convention so there's time for a new candidate.
Yeah, that was really rough. The denialism over Biden's aging has surely died today. Jon Stewart got flak for bringing it up in his first show, but he was totally correct.
I'm seeing many people say that he should be replaced on the ballot. Do y'all have any idea how much work and planning a political campaign entails? The ship has already sailed on that possibility. The bed has been made and we have to lie in it. Our best possible hope is that the fallout from this gets swept away due to the state of the 24 hour news cycle. May the miniscule attention span of the public save us.
No ship had sailed. It’s almost two months until the democrats have their nomination convention. If the democrats wanted to they could change candidate. Would it be a lot of work? Yes. But almost any moderate candidate would be a relief for all the voters that just doesn’t want Trump in office.
They need to make the right decision from where they are standing right now, not succumb to some sort of sunk cost fallacy with Biden
This is entirely false, not only is there already a contingency plan in place on both sides but there is certainly active discussions going on now as to whether or not he should be replaced. They didn’t hold the earliest debate in presidential history by accident.
It's absolutely insane to me that anyone can watch this debate and think "yea, that Donald fella sure made some good points"
It shouldn't even matter who the other side was because that man is just a broad collection of narsistic traits.
I did watch something about a study the other day about how the biggest factor, by a very large margin, in how people select their leaders is simply how much they've heard them babble. Someone who talks alot is seen as leader material regardless of the quality of speech. (I don't recall the source, it was about cult leaders).
Trump did what he always does. That’s the problem.
Trump was Trump tonight. Incoherent rambling for 9 years now. He never makes good points. But people have collectively agreed to hold him to a lower standard.
He done about 80% of the talking last night. As the night went on trump was the only one really talking compared to Biden.
They need to replace Biden otherwise it’s going to be 2016 all over again
What is wrong with the DNC? This is the candidate they field? Biden should have been held to his promise to not run for re-election. We need a young and vital democrat running who will occupy the office for the next 8 years. Instead we are praying that old man dodders to the finish line. Unbelievable.
We could have done that in 16 too. And 20. But we won't. 2 parties kills democracy. George Washington nailed it on his way out.
Half the country votes against a rapist conman and the other half votes against a geriatric puppet. Neither side wins because neither party is held accountable by the general public out of fear you're "helping the other side".
If you even posit a theory that Biden has an imperfect candidacy, the left shuns you out of the conversation. You're painted as a republican troll because saying anything negative is "helping the republicans".
Same on the other side. You dare not criticize dear orange leader or you're a woke liberal who is just concern trolling. Because any dissenting opinion necessarily means a loss at the polls.
If we had more than 2 actual representative parties, they could hold each other accountable and form conditional coalitions. But that takes power away from the 2 major parties, so they fight tooth and nail against it.
>If we had more than 2 actual representative parties, they could hold each other accountable and form conditional coalitions. But that takes power away from the 2 major parties, so they fight tooth and nail against it.
Yepppp you'd think this debate would wake people up and have them realizing it's all a sham. All they care about is that you put that little check next to their name jn November. The last thing they care to do is have a situation where people actually have power.
I can't believe everyone was expecting these debate rules to favor Biden. He looked like he desperately needed Trump to interrupt him with some jackass remark so he could stop rambling
They should have put another candidate into position two fucking years ago. When Trump becomes president again and fucks everything up I’m gonna blame both the republicans and the democrats.
***From Rolling Stone's Asawin Suebsaeng and Andrew Perez:***
At 9 p.m., Joe Biden and Donald Trump began their first televised debate of the 2024 presidential election. Less than an hour into it, various Democratic members of Congress and their staff were frantically messaging each other, panicking about the very real possibility of a second Trump administration and asking one another if there’s any way that Biden can be replaced as the party’s nominee by the Chicago convention in August.
Nine sources across the Democratic elite — lawmakers and aides on Capitol Hill, longtime party operatives, moneymen, and even current Biden officials — watched the debate in horror, and relayed their candid assessments and visceral panic to Rolling Stone in real time. All feared Biden’s performance at the debate could help hand the federal government back to an increasingly authoritarian and openly corrupt Trump and his MAGA zealots. Each one conceded it might be best if the sitting president were not the 2024 nominee, and wondered if, as one Democratic lawmaker put it, an “intervention” should be staged as soon as possible to push the White House to get Biden to step aside.
According to written communications reviewed by Rolling Stone and two sources familiar with the matter, as the Biden-Trump debate was ongoing, several Democratic lawmakers and numerous staffers on Capitol Hill were feverishly venting to one another that Biden should not be the party’s pick to face Trump on Election Day in November, and that intra-party pressure should immediately be applied to determine a successor.
Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-panic-over-bidens-debate-performance-1235048536/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-panic-over-bidens-debate-performance-1235048536/)
“How do I counter the nickname Sleepy Joe? I know, I’ll stand here with my eyes closed while I think, that will do it.” - President Biden, likely
That was too unsettling to watch after the first 5 minutes
A lot of people, me included, have been downvoted to oblivion multiple times for stating that Biden is probably the worst choice to field versus Trump. He is not popular, he is older and stumbles a lot, and basically anyone with a clean slate and with the DNC's backing can beat Trump. But now we are less than 6 months from the elections and the only way to change this is for Biden to drop out himself - at which point he has to nominate Kamala, which is probably the only other person that polls *worse* than Biden vs Trump
Good job, blind allegiance led us here and head-in-the-sand-ism will lead us to the election outcome
They dogwalked the elections in '08 and '12 with a young charismatic candidate. They ran deeply unlikable Hillary and Biden in 16/20/24 and now a felon is on the doorstep of the presidency. The signs were always there
Even if it doesn't change minds, it affects turnout. How many people are going to look at the performance, and then faced with the prospect of waiting in line in November to vote, think "If the Dems don't bother, why should I?"?
I didn’t watch the debate but turned on the Daily Show for their live recap… I know they cherry-picked lines and moments but I did not feel good after watching that *at all*.
Trump was his same old shitty lying self, there is no story or surprise there.
The story everyone will be talking about for months is that he is a running against a senile shell of a human being who is in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet. Guy was out there looking like Bub from Day of the Dead and there is no amount of cope that can possibly downplay it.
Yeah that's the real issue. Not that people that would have voted for Biden will vote for Trump now, but that they just won't vote at all. That's how Trump won in 2016 and that would be how he would win this year too. The more voter apathy there is the more it favors Trump.
Everybody who is posting these comments don't realize that old people exist and still get their news from TV. They aren't going to go online and read all the apologetics and Trump debunkings. This debate will be literally the only exposure they have to the candidates. And the scariest part of that... old people vote, big time.
This is such a fucking disaster. Democrats fucked up when they let Hillary run and all of her issues paved the way for Trump to get elected the first time. Biden wasn't a good candidate 4 years ago, but he was better than Trump. Now? He doesn't sound like he's capable of making decisions that impact our country. He could barely get complete sentence out. Half of what he said didn't make sense. Trump demolished Biden last night and no amount of Biden press or Trump fact checking can undo that damage. Trump just stood there and lied while Biden looked like he forgot which room is his at the retirement home.
I mean I don't think our votes are the problem. There's a lot of people out there who already decided who they are voting for. But I can't imagine an undecided voter in swing state seeing that performance and being enthusiastic
For everyone saying “doesn’t change anything I’m still not gonna vote for trump”
The issue is the US doesn’t have compulsory voting. The game isn’t about changing minds of who to vote for, it’s about convincing enough people to like your guy to go and vote. Having a candidate people can’t get enthusiastic about is how Trump got elected. Don’t repeat 2016. Get someone charismatic with energy and personality and presence who people can actually care about.
That entire debate was just a cheapfake. Biden actually ran out on the stage and spouted off his wisdom at an incredible pace. Totally edited to make him look bad. Seriously though, just went back and watched clips from the 2020 Democratic debate and it's astonishing how much Biden has declined since then. He was sharp and witty at that time. Will the democrats do the right thing and drop Biden for another candidate?
The debate confirmed the polls, people are not comfortable with a 81 years old running for the presidency regardless of how good he is, how smart, how strong and healthy he is. Bad decision to run again and to prove he’s behind in polls to a lying convicted criminal. No panic here, I got banned before and downvoted tons because I pointed out some of his positions and decision to run will risk democracy itself in the US
All set up to make Biden look worse. Sure, he's aged terribly but the media knew what they were doing by not regulating or fact checking this whole debate. The moderator was completely useless. Now they'll spin it as "Trump won" even though he couldn't answer a question and kept lying throughout. Dems need to step it up and keep driving the facts about what Biden has successfully done during his term and that this debate is no indication on how the President will control our Country. Media and GOP are the scum of the Earth.
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I wanted SOTU Biden, where did that guy go?
Idk. But if it was cause he took adderall… why in gods name did he not take it again for this debate…… what the hell. I’d rather have a president who uses Adderall occasionally than a fascist orange dictator
I'm watching clips of the debate right now. Biden clearly has a cold. The way everyone has been talking like he bombed totally. He just sounds like he's congested.
I watched it live. Right Biden sounded bad with the raspiness. But I didn't think it was the disaster that everyone seems to think it was. Trumo lied and avoided answering any question by constantly bringing up immigration. Biden answered questions clearly with a few exceptions where he got lost in the weeds of responding to the absolute bullshit that Trump was saying. It wasn't a good debate for Biden by any means but from my perspective both of them showed us exactly who they are. An old man narcissist pathological liar and a competent but stuttering old man. Both choices kinda suck, one sucks waaay less.
It didn’t help that the moderators who said prior that they would be fact checking claims particularly about 2020 election and Jan 6 fact checked literally nothing and simply allowed Trump to lie constantly. But then what should we have expected from CNN.
CNN was fact checking online, but I think their website was overloaded with traffic and went down partway through.
Why not drop a fact check quickly before the next question? It's not like they don't know how, they do it all the time in interviews. The media should be unbiased on issues, but they should not be unbiased about facts and things that literally happened
They should have an additional person with the hosts fact checking live. It took me five seconds to google which presidents had the worst economies, it wasn’t Biden as Trump claims.
Thank you it’s like the media gaslighting everyone. It wasn’t that bad. Trump never answered a question and lied. He called our nation a 3rd world nation.
Don’t forget he also admitted talking to Putin about invading Ukraine
And repeatedly promised he would end the war if elected before even being sworn in. Which is either complete bullshit like everything else he promises, or admitting that his relationship to Putin is shady under the table deals and corruption. My bet is on utter bullshit
Putin could end the war instantly by getting out of Ukraine - the only way the West could end it is by forcing the Ukrainians out of Ukraine and handing it over to Putin. Unfortunately I don’t think Trump sees anything wrong with doing that.
Like don't get me wrong. It wasn't a good performance by Biden. But it is crazy to me that people keep repeating the CNN line that it was a disaster. It wasn't good, but he didn't answer a question about January 6th or climate change by talking about the border. Trump was incoherent because he was incoherent. Biden messed to a few times but he actually had relevant answers instead of ranting like some guy in a Denny's parking lot
It wasnt a disaster for well informed politcal junkies like most of us in this sub, but to the average folk they'll see one guy freezing on camera and staring into the abyss, and the other guy being much more energized. Even though he lied about pretty much everything, it'll go right over their head. The very first televized presidential debate of JFK vs Nixon, people who listened on the radio thought Nixon won, people who watched thought JFK won. Presidential elections in america are unfortunately decided on optics rather than substance. The taller and more attractive candidates usually win.
Yup. For the kind of people like us, that are in this thread at all, we know the facts and that Trump was just making shit up as he went while Biden was stumbling occasionally over the truth. Most of the electorate aren't like us. They don't know all the facts, but what they do know is how they feel when listening to two completely opposite characters on a stage. One was confident and maybe a little charasmatic, while the other seemed a bit overwhelmed and unsure of exactly what he was trying to say. For those people who aren't us, Biden's performance was unequivocally a disaster.
Right? I'm going fucking crazy reading the takes this morning. Guess I can't be surprised its all show over substance
I also watched it live and it was the worst performance I’ve ever seen in a debate. It doesn’t matter if at some point, in a transcript review perhaps, somebody can parse what Biden said and compare it to the ramblings and lies of Trump…in real time it was tragic and gave the impression that Biden was about to shuffle off this mortal coil. Sadly, most American voters only care about superficial performance, and by that metric this was an abject failure. I cannot express how disappointed I am that Biden decided to run for a second term and the DNC thought this would be a good idea in the most important election of our lives.
Rofl... the fucking copium. A cold doesn't make you unable to finish a sentence and then blurt out that you defeated medicare
Does it really matter? Do you guys really need him to perform to recognise his policies will be less damaging?
The people in r/politics are not the ones to be worried about
We don’t need it, but anyone who is undecided at this point probably does
We all recognize that the election is going to be close, much closer than the number of voters who will decide based on which one appears to still have the energy of a 70 year old instead of a 90 year old and not based on the policies.
They are all pretty goddamn good policies. He and his administration have passed some incredible legislation.
Biden’s primary issue was that he lost his voice/was hoarse and additionally was trying to speak too quickly. I assume he over-practiced. They should have had him on vocal rest leading up to the debate so this didn’t happen. -What was with the audio/mics, why did they not adjust things to make Biden’s voice come through clearer (even Trump’s had some distortion) Instead it washed his voice out. CNN also did both of them dirty with the - extremely harsh lighting used. Such lighting tends to wash out paler skin tones. -CNN also did not bother to fact check. I am seriously wondering how this was set up and moderated so poorly. And if it was intentional or not. It’s like an amateur was directing the set-up of the debate . Like wtf, how do you not figure out how to properly adjust the lighting and audio. Lack of fact-check was shameful Trump’s primary issue is that he couldn’t string a coherent sentence together and was perseverating on the same 4-5 buzzwords about “the border.” It’s like his mind kept short-circuiting and was trying to return to factory settings
Most all of your points can be answered the same way. It’s CNN. Do not get it twisted the moderators plan from the beginning was zero follow up and no fact check (despite statements to the contrary) because they dare not risk their precious access to the lie spewing maga crowd
CNN is the new fox. Was prob intentional
>Trump’s primary issue is that he couldn’t string a coherent sentence together and was perseverating on the same 4-5 buzzwords about “the border.” It’s like his mind kept short-circuiting and was trying to return to factory settings I think this debate format actually helped Trump. His biggest downfall for most listeners is that the longer he is allowed to talk, the more insane his ramblings become. Actually stopping his bullshit train from going off the rails by cutting his mic every couple minutes ends up making him appear *more* competent.
Trump took no responsibility for Jan 6th and also wouldn't say he would peaceful accept the results of the election 🙄
Same song he's been playing for years now. He was claiming that the election was rigged against him since before any votes were cast in 2016. He even kept it going after he won to claim that he really won the popular vote but fraud was somehow involved. He really doesn't have any new material....
Thats not making Biden look any better. It just makes American democracy look like a joke.
But it *does* make Biden look better. How can anyone consider any alternative? And one other thing: Did everyone forget that the VP and 25th amendment is a thing that exists? Worst case scenario with Biden is actually still better than Trump.
At this point, I'm just voting to save Democracy. That's it.
Part 2
Electric bugaloo
Sadly that's what everyone thinks they're doing
I mean, my choices are an old man with a stammer or a dictator rapist felon, so I’m picking Grandpa. This debate changes nothing.
That would be great if you were the deciding factor in the election but other people vote also and we will see how this performance changes the minds of others if it does.
I think right now maybe, but what Trump said tonight is going to get more play in the coming days. Right now everyone is focused on Biden being old and not the crazy shit Trump keeps saying.
He said that crazy lying shit before his first term and still won.
If by everyone you mean the bots that brigade every election than yes
So many people joined a year ago, it's very strange.
It’s the same every 4 years.
Wake up dude. I am not saying there are not bots but seriously this was very bad for Biden regardless of how shitty Trump did.
It’s not just Biden being old. He also froze up, looked lost, and parts of some of his answers made no sense
Ok, but which of Trump's answers made sense? I loved when he said he didn't bang a porn star. Like just because he can lie well doesn't mean he has a fucking clue what's going on in the world.
The thing is that Biden has certain standards and expectations to live up to, whereas Trump does not. Biden's biggest disadvantage against Trump is not having a cult following.
I understand Trump rambles, lies, is a traitor, and is a moron. This isn’t about his base. His base isn’t changing. This is about people who might have voted for Biden who now probably won’t bother at all which only helps Trump.
Well none of trumps rambling made any sense, not to mention were devoid of a single ounce of truth.
Republicans fall in line. Democrats fall in love. On election day, Trump could be in a wheelchair, drooling on himself, and shouting obscenities at everyone around him, but the Republican base would still vote for him. Biden is already dealing with the young "Genocide Joe" voters who think the Democrats are going into the Middle East to kill every Palestinian. And he has to win over the "independent" voters who are still on the fence about whether to vote for Trump or Biden. If the young "Genocide Joe" voters stay home, and the "independent" voters break for Trump, and Trump ekes out small victories in swing states like Michigan or Pennsylvania or Arizona, well then... there you go. That's it.
I see a lot people saying this but it’s not about the people like you. I don’t know which sane person watched the debate and thinks Biden is fit enough for four more years as president. Trump neither but Biden performed so bad that he took off the focus of all the lies Trump told. This debate couldn’t have gone worse. I can’t see Biden convincing any undecided voter with this performance. He underlined that his age concerns are very valid which was the worst thing that could have happened.
Even if you don’t think biden lasts 4 more years, the presidency is more than a man- it’s the administration.
While I feel the same way, you yourself and I myself are not the only deciding factors in who wins the election. Moral grandstanding like this, even if morally correct, is not equivalent to a smart political strategy to win. Democrats are correct in saying it is vital that Trump loses. That's exactly why Biden must drop out, and that's never been clearer than tonight. A politician has to be a good *politician* in order to win, and Biden is no longer capable of that. Being the morally correct choice and losing has exactly the same impact on policy as being the morally incorrect choice and losing. Winning is of utmost importance.
Bro has more than just a stammer. He unironically sounds like he’s got early stages of dementia or Alzheimer’s. Even his performance from 4 years ago was LIGHT years better than this. Unless he shoots it out of the part at the next debate (somehow), he’s cooked and fucked us all for not stepping the fuck aside.
Next debate? LOL. Not a chance. Trump has zero reason to do that. The fascist party got exactly what they needed, no reason to risk anything else.
Biden looked old and confused it was very bad but let’s be honest here 5 months out and this could be buried under a mountain of other shit. The public has the memory of a goldfish. Running Biden for president again should be considered elderly abuse
You’re crazy if Trump doesn’t see how good this debate helps his numbers and challenges or agrees to another debate after that disastrous performance.
All he has to do is shut up and do nothing, and he wins
Trump has never in his life been able to shut up and do nothing.
I live in.swing state and despite Biden's feebleness I'm voting democratic. I'm voting based on the party platform and not on the person. But I'm worried this will move the needle enough in the republicans direction that states like mine will flip to Trump. Crap.
Don’t care. Will crawl over broken glass to vote Biden to defeat the convicted felon, proven rapist and insurrectionist traitor.
>Will crawl over broken glass to vote Biden to defeat the convicted felon, proven rapist and insurrectionist traitor. Same here. Biden and his team (or whoever is making things happen behind the scenes) have exceeded my expectations these past 3+ years. I'll vote for him again in November (provided he's still alive then).
But we “had H2O” when Trump was president!
They could keep Biden or change it up. I'm voting blue.
Trump just spouted lies but he did it with energy and for the Trump faithful with surface level intellect, that’s good nuff. God, Biden looked painfully weak (as seen through the lens of the MAGA morons) and that was my bigger concern because it will give political hay to the right wing news machines/online trolls who will invariably jump on it. Neither came away looking better than when they started even though it is plain as day that Biden is the only sane choice. Biden just made himself all that much harder to sell. Let’s hope round two goes better.
The issue is the independent vote. If you are sitting at home not committed to either party it’s real difficult to come to the conclusion that Biden is fit for the job. Loyal MAGA will vote Trump no matter what. Loyal dems will vote Biden no matter what. Those are know quantities. The election is decided by the space in between those two and I don’t see this debate helping Biden in any way with the middle.
Why do they panic now? Wasn't this obvious year ago? Biden was supposed to be a 1 term president to get Trump out of office. That's it. Why the F is he running for reelection? We're all going to suffer for his hubris.
Eerily similar to a recent Supreme Court situation… Democrats need to realize when to step down instead of clinging to power.
And Pelosi, and Feinstein
"But it's fine, the liberals/centrists are the adults in charge and know best. The childish progressives should stop calling things out and helping the GOP... Oh shit, they were right again and now we're fucked. Let's blame the progressives for drawing attention to it instead of owning our mistake. If they hadn't pointed it out years ago, no one would have noticed." - Their likely reasoning
Feinstein was totally fine you’re just being SEXIST /s
It's so frustrating with the Boomers,yes,you did some good things.but this Ruth Bader syndrome,seems to affect them as a generation. "Only I can defeat Trump" Really? Biden had so many opportunities to deliver that knockout punch with every lie that spewed out of Trump's mouth,but instead he stood there like a Mitch McConnell. It's really too late to say this,but the Boomers should have stood aside years ago and let other generations bring forth their own Kennedys, Clintons and Obamas.
Biden is part of the silent generation. He's fucking older than boomers. Even the generation that is popular to hate on and call old and out of touch is younger than Biden.
I know people didn’t like him for a number of reasons but watching Pete Buttigeig stand up to Perry the other day with a sharp retort, rebuttal, and firm command of the facts and figures made me wish he, or someone like him, had been on stage against Trump. He’s my generation and I feel like it’s our turn to run some stuff and not have our grandparents and parents still controlling things.
Ruth Bader Biden baby
Because Democrats never do anything they need to.
> if democrats are so fucking smart why do they lose so god damn always.
I also want McAvoy’s input on this
Like clockwork, Democrats biggest enemy continues to be itself.
I swear to god the Democrats are the Washington Generals. They just try so fucking hard to lose.
That's because the rich fucks who really run it would not actually be served by any kind of leftist success. They love to campaign and fundraise on the idea of progressive change, but they don't want to actually catch that car, it would affect their bottom lines. That's why the dream of universal healthcare that got Obama elected, turned into... mandatory participation in the capitalist hellforge of our insurance industry. Cool.
Suffering for hubris is in the DNC platform just above funding extremists on the right.
And deep throating corporate oligarchy! Dont forget that one they are incredible at that too
Because they tried hard to keep Biden out of this exact situation. They hoped with enough prep and very constrained debate rules they could get him across the finish line. The problem is that now that it’s all laid bare people have to face how bad the situation is.
It was obvious but everyone kept saying to not believe your lying eyes. Which was infuriating.
Yep. If you even mentioned concerns you were labeled as a trump supporter. We are just supposed to pretend nothing is happening. Hopefully now people get it.
Honestly, before Biden won the primary, I thought Biden would retire and give rise to Harris. Look, Trump is blaming all of his lawsuits and troubles on Biden specifically. If Biden suddenly steps down and Harris takes over, how could you blame your legal troubles on the new candidate who was never president? I'm wondering if they held off because of the strenuous delay in Trump's legal proceedings. You throw a young candidate in for Biden and you're a shoe in.
There are tons of better candidates than Harris. She would lose to Trump by even a bigger margin than Clinton did.
I agree. I think she'd have a tight race with RFK Jr. The people making decisions for the democratic party should have planned better.
Problem is, we deserved a primary, not a Harris coronation.
Harris has a worse chance of winning than Biden even if he were dead.
What primary? They never seriously had one because they were so adamant about his capability and vigor to run it back. Biden's administration not only stifled that issue when there was a chance to have a real primary, they called and pushed to make this debate happen.
To be fair, the party with the incumbent usually doesn’t have a primary. Not a serious one anyway.
I think even running Hillary again would be better than running Harris. Realistically it probably needs to be neither. But at least Hillary has name recognition which will be super important for a late nominated candidate
Because it’s almost unheard of to give up the incumbency advantage.
As is running as an 81 year old
Completely. Everyone citing these precedents about incumbents seem to keep forgetting that we are in uncharted waters at this point so historical trends start to lose their edge.
>Because it’s almost unheard of to give up the incumbency advantage What advantage? Incumbents are 4-3 in the last 50 years (4-4 if you count ford)
>Why the F is he running for reelection? The power of incumbency is a real thing. Start with a fresh candidate and you lose that advantage, likely pitting some relative nobody against the guy with a dedicated following of lunatics that would lick his shoes and call it icecream.
It’s the optics. Whether or not Biden is up to the job, that debate didn’t look well. If you watch Biden talk at length throughout his presidency, at rallys, summits, Congressional addresses, etc., he’s fine. He’s a little slower, sure, but he has all his wits about him. Everything the GOP has tried to throw at Biden’s age and capability thus far has been utter poppycock, from manipulating clips to asserting he uses PEDs. There’s been little actual concern from the Democrats, who are scared absolutely shitless of a second Trump term, because in Biden there’s little to actually be concerned about. Tonight though he didn’t look all that good, but that’s not because the MAGA conspiracies that Biden is really an addled old man who’s off his rocker is actually true, he was just sick, and being sick and going up against the firehouse of lies that is Trump would lead to a poor performance for anybody. It was just an utter shit roll of the dice. If he wasn’t sick, this may have been an entirely different debate. But he was sick, and he did have a poor performance, so it doesn’t matter what could have been. It doesn’t matter if up until now Biden hadn’t had a public performance that poorly, and if until the Election Day he never does again. What matters is a lot of people already have concerns in their mind and this *singular* performance confirms those biases and will continue to plague Biden conversationally going forward. Democrats are freaking out because regardless of the reality of the situation this *looked really bad*. And unlike Raegan in ‘84, he doesn’t have another debate in a few weeks to give him another go to change perceptions. They hadn’t freaked out before because there’s nothing actually to be concerned about with Biden. But the optics of him looking and sounding like he did, and performing as he did, even if it’s just a fluke and not a good representation of the reality of the situation- those optics alone can bury him. It’s just *really, really, really bad optics*. And a lot of politics is showmanship and optics. That’s why Trump does so well, even if he is selling snake oil and lies, and why Biden, regardless of how he seems the other 364 days of the year, is in a much more precarious situation now.
I can’t understand why the DNC insists on going with him. The main (valid) arguments for voting for him have nothing to do with the man himself - it’s a vote against fascism, Project 2025, the end of democracy as we know it, etc. Those arguments all still hold if you swap him out with Kamala, Newsom, or literally any other Democrat. I can’t imagine a voter who is enthusiastically pro-Biden who also wouldn’t still vote for any other Dem alternative. At this point he is literally just a figurehead for the idea of saving democracy and everyone who is voting for him is like “I would vote for literally anyone over that other piece of shit.” What is there to lose by switching to a more competent alternative?
This is the part that gets me. The best defense anyone seems to have is that they don't care how bad the performance was, and they would vote for anyone, a corpse, an inanimate object, etc., over Trump, therefore Biden should stay. Vote blue no matter who and all that That's not the defense of Biden they think it is. None of those votes would be lost if he does drop out, so why not put in someone that people might actually vote for, instead of relying purely on anti-Trump sentiment?
My brother said this was a left-wing propaganda piece. He talked about it being CNN, the leftist ties of the moderators, a two-minute delay. I just texted him, because it's after 1 a.m. here, if he will at least admit he was wrong. I'm interested to hear what he says.
You have to wait for the Maga collective to get fed fox news points.
Trumpers are incapable of admitting they were wrong.
He's my brother, I gotta have hope.
Honestly, what were they expecting? Biden is an old fuck. I am not voting for Biden; I am voting against Trump.
Ill take mumbling over fascism any day.
Can Jon Stewart just run for President please.
At least the state of the unions would be entertaining
If you came here looking for solutions there are none to be found here.
I was very disappointed. I had the house to myself. I made a pizza from scratch to enjoy as I watched. I had to stop watching after about 10 minutes in order to not barf up my pizza. The mistake I made was assuming this would be a normal debate. It was not. And this is not a normal election. This isn’t good faith politics or business as usual and it certainly isn’t entertainment. This is fucking serious and I feel sick now.
Neither man won. Trump was a nonstop firehose of bullshit and lies and whined constantly like a five year old. Biden was clearly off his feed and looked like he had a bad cold. Afterward, in front of a live crowd at a watch party, Biden seemed to come to life again. Maybe he needs an audience more than Bloatboy does.
These debates aren’t for decided voters, they’re for people on the fence. And people on the fence don’t see Trump in the same absolute horror show the majority of us on Reddit do. Having said that, Trump absolutely won. He lied and bullshitted but Joe just looked and sounded so frail and unfit to be a president. Trump probably picked up some undecided voters but worse Biden probably lost a lot who will just stay home rather than vote.
This feels like that moment when RBG refused to step aside.
Dems are such idiots tbh (I say this as a progressive person). It was obvious he was a one term guy. They’re never brave enough to do the shit that needs done.
The problem is deeper than that. It all stems back to trying to sandbag Bernie to force Hillary down everyone’s throat because she felt entitled to be the first female president after growing up Republican, pretending to be southern with a fake Arkansas accent, then moving to New York to represent a state that she didn’t really live in previously, all while putting up with her husband’s numerous public affairs. Entitlement, nepotism, and machine politics will be the downfall of the Democratic party and possibly American democracy as a whole. But I will still take a dry mouthed stuttering yet coherent Biden over a guy that speaks in ABSOLUTE hyperbole at all times to cover the fact that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I can’t listen to Trump ramble on for one more second with “you know what they say, they’re saying this is the most worst thing in the history of the country ever, that’s what they’re saying, you should see the numbers, have you seen these numbers? its horrible, they’re laughing at us.” He is obviously full of shit like a kid doing a book report that never read the book. If anyone is dumb enough to buy his bullshit then fuck em. I will take the Weekend at Bernie’s version of Biden over the fascist downfall of America any day.
Yep, they could have embraced the future. Bernie was the only Democratic candidate with any momentum since Obama
[удалено]
> accept the debate with trump Even worse, his campaign proposed it. People need to be fired, and I mean that in a very serious & considered way. Forget the fact that he was clearly sick and not at his best, that's mostly bad luck. Failing to mention that Trump is a felon until almost 45 minutes in — *and letting him bring it up first* — is some of the worst preparation & political strategy I've ever seen. They fundamentally misunderstood the mission tonight considering the answers Biden came in with.
The most glaring mistake by biden was allowing trump any air at all on the border thing. "I sat down with the GOP and gave them everything they wanted in a border bill, and this guy over here tanked it because he wanted to campaign on it. Now he's here saying all of this awful border stuff, most if which isn't even true, but lets be honest folks - he caused it. Whatever is happening at the order because he tanked the bill is on him. "
There were so many things Biden left on the table: “My opponent continues to deny that he raped E Jean Carroll and now he’s saying he didn’t have an affair with a porn star. Could he please clarify?” “I heard that my opponent has an excellent probation officer” “Ask my opponent if he will finally concede that I beat him in 2020” “Was it 6000 or 7000 votes you asked the Georgia State Department to ‘find’” The list goes on and on.
He also brought up migrant murder during a discussion on abortion for some reason
If the only way to win an election is to avoid having the usual presidential debates, then maybe that person shouldn't have been the nominee in the first place.
Biden’s team pushed for the debate
I think this was the intended result. They have been in debate prep with him for days at Camp David there is no way his team would of been caught off guard by this.
Fair play to them if that's the case. If you know he would do just as badly in an October debate, go ahead and throw him up there before the convention so there's time for a new candidate.
That's some 4D chess. Give Biden a solid reason that he needs to drop out.
No.. don’t you remember Biden released a whole video challenging Trump saying well make my day pal, I’ll even do it twice?
same I am actually in such shock!
Yeah, that was really rough. The denialism over Biden's aging has surely died today. Jon Stewart got flak for bringing it up in his first show, but he was totally correct. I'm seeing many people say that he should be replaced on the ballot. Do y'all have any idea how much work and planning a political campaign entails? The ship has already sailed on that possibility. The bed has been made and we have to lie in it. Our best possible hope is that the fallout from this gets swept away due to the state of the 24 hour news cycle. May the miniscule attention span of the public save us.
No ship had sailed. It’s almost two months until the democrats have their nomination convention. If the democrats wanted to they could change candidate. Would it be a lot of work? Yes. But almost any moderate candidate would be a relief for all the voters that just doesn’t want Trump in office. They need to make the right decision from where they are standing right now, not succumb to some sort of sunk cost fallacy with Biden
Guess which they’ll pick.
“Somehow Bernie returned”
This is entirely false, not only is there already a contingency plan in place on both sides but there is certainly active discussions going on now as to whether or not he should be replaced. They didn’t hold the earliest debate in presidential history by accident.
Don't understand why some people still say this is "dooming," It was an unmitigated disaster tonight.
It's absolutely insane to me that anyone can watch this debate and think "yea, that Donald fella sure made some good points" It shouldn't even matter who the other side was because that man is just a broad collection of narsistic traits. I did watch something about a study the other day about how the biggest factor, by a very large margin, in how people select their leaders is simply how much they've heard them babble. Someone who talks alot is seen as leader material regardless of the quality of speech. (I don't recall the source, it was about cult leaders).
Trump did what he always does. That’s the problem. Trump was Trump tonight. Incoherent rambling for 9 years now. He never makes good points. But people have collectively agreed to hold him to a lower standard.
He done about 80% of the talking last night. As the night went on trump was the only one really talking compared to Biden. They need to replace Biden otherwise it’s going to be 2016 all over again
People don’t want to vote for the guy who sucks less. They want to vote for someone inspiring. Biden is just a guy who sucks less.
What is wrong with the DNC? This is the candidate they field? Biden should have been held to his promise to not run for re-election. We need a young and vital democrat running who will occupy the office for the next 8 years. Instead we are praying that old man dodders to the finish line. Unbelievable.
So why didn't the so called 'democratic elite' put up a better candidate? Clearly a problem of their own making.
We could have had Bernie Sanders despite him being slightly older is still full of energy but no, we had to choose the establishment pick.
I can't imagine there's a voter out there who says 'I'd go to the polls in November to vote for Biden, but would stay home if Newsom replaces him'.
Just run Taylor Swift at this point.
I’d prefer Jon Stewart TBH
Is she 35?
She would be prior to inauguration.
Yeah, this is bleak as hell. I don’t see how we get out of this one.
I mean could not have ran someone who should be at home with his family and not trying to run the country
We could have done that in 16 too. And 20. But we won't. 2 parties kills democracy. George Washington nailed it on his way out. Half the country votes against a rapist conman and the other half votes against a geriatric puppet. Neither side wins because neither party is held accountable by the general public out of fear you're "helping the other side". If you even posit a theory that Biden has an imperfect candidacy, the left shuns you out of the conversation. You're painted as a republican troll because saying anything negative is "helping the republicans". Same on the other side. You dare not criticize dear orange leader or you're a woke liberal who is just concern trolling. Because any dissenting opinion necessarily means a loss at the polls. If we had more than 2 actual representative parties, they could hold each other accountable and form conditional coalitions. But that takes power away from the 2 major parties, so they fight tooth and nail against it.
>If we had more than 2 actual representative parties, they could hold each other accountable and form conditional coalitions. But that takes power away from the 2 major parties, so they fight tooth and nail against it. Yepppp you'd think this debate would wake people up and have them realizing it's all a sham. All they care about is that you put that little check next to their name jn November. The last thing they care to do is have a situation where people actually have power.
I think the dems have to run someone else. I’m literally in shock. I’m a diehard Biden supporter - but after tonight I just don’t see him winning
Just a wild juxtaposition from his state of the union speech to this
I can't believe everyone was expecting these debate rules to favor Biden. He looked like he desperately needed Trump to interrupt him with some jackass remark so he could stop rambling
They should have put another candidate into position two fucking years ago. When Trump becomes president again and fucks everything up I’m gonna blame both the republicans and the democrats.
***From Rolling Stone's Asawin Suebsaeng and Andrew Perez:*** At 9 p.m., Joe Biden and Donald Trump began their first televised debate of the 2024 presidential election. Less than an hour into it, various Democratic members of Congress and their staff were frantically messaging each other, panicking about the very real possibility of a second Trump administration and asking one another if there’s any way that Biden can be replaced as the party’s nominee by the Chicago convention in August. Nine sources across the Democratic elite — lawmakers and aides on Capitol Hill, longtime party operatives, moneymen, and even current Biden officials — watched the debate in horror, and relayed their candid assessments and visceral panic to Rolling Stone in real time. All feared Biden’s performance at the debate could help hand the federal government back to an increasingly authoritarian and openly corrupt Trump and his MAGA zealots. Each one conceded it might be best if the sitting president were not the 2024 nominee, and wondered if, as one Democratic lawmaker put it, an “intervention” should be staged as soon as possible to push the White House to get Biden to step aside. According to written communications reviewed by Rolling Stone and two sources familiar with the matter, as the Biden-Trump debate was ongoing, several Democratic lawmakers and numerous staffers on Capitol Hill were feverishly venting to one another that Biden should not be the party’s pick to face Trump on Election Day in November, and that intra-party pressure should immediately be applied to determine a successor. Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-panic-over-bidens-debate-performance-1235048536/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-panic-over-bidens-debate-performance-1235048536/)
“How do I counter the nickname Sleepy Joe? I know, I’ll stand here with my eyes closed while I think, that will do it.” - President Biden, likely That was too unsettling to watch after the first 5 minutes
A lot of people, me included, have been downvoted to oblivion multiple times for stating that Biden is probably the worst choice to field versus Trump. He is not popular, he is older and stumbles a lot, and basically anyone with a clean slate and with the DNC's backing can beat Trump. But now we are less than 6 months from the elections and the only way to change this is for Biden to drop out himself - at which point he has to nominate Kamala, which is probably the only other person that polls *worse* than Biden vs Trump Good job, blind allegiance led us here and head-in-the-sand-ism will lead us to the election outcome
He doesn’t nominate his replacement
Absolute disaster class from the democratic party. Easiest election in the world to win and they finda way to blow it
First time?
Democrats love to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm still voting blue but *hoo boy* am I tired of this nonsense.
They dogwalked the elections in '08 and '12 with a young charismatic candidate. They ran deeply unlikable Hillary and Biden in 16/20/24 and now a felon is on the doorstep of the presidency. The signs were always there
This is giving me Ruth Bader Ginsberg vibes all over again.
Anyone else tired of voting *against* someone and want to actually vote *for* someone? Really wish we could find someone who could rile us up
And he prepared for a week at camp david!
He should drop out. Yes it'll look shit, but it'll look shit for a few weeks and then it won't matter.
Even if it doesn't change minds, it affects turnout. How many people are going to look at the performance, and then faced with the prospect of waiting in line in November to vote, think "If the Dems don't bother, why should I?"?
I'm becoming more and more suicidal with each development.
What an odd world. Yes, Biden is old and a little out of it. He’s not a fascist convicted felon wannabe dictator.
I didn’t watch the debate but turned on the Daily Show for their live recap… I know they cherry-picked lines and moments but I did not feel good after watching that *at all*.
So I'm a Democratic Elite now? Cause I'm in Panic mode... and I'm not even American. You guys are so fucked.
The Democratic elite? That’s the guy THEY foisted on US!
He sounded like my gramps, I’m totally voting for him! I could barely stomach listening to that felon standing next to him.
Trump was his same old shitty lying self, there is no story or surprise there. The story everyone will be talking about for months is that he is a running against a senile shell of a human being who is in charge of the most powerful nation on the planet. Guy was out there looking like Bub from Day of the Dead and there is no amount of cope that can possibly downplay it.
My boy looked like Don Flamenco when he's stuck in the infinite combo
Oh fuck that. Trump is Trump. If anybody changes their mind after this they were always Trump voters
it's not about changing minds, it's about voter turnout. lots of people were already not excited to vote for Biden. now that number has gone wayyy up
Yeah that's the real issue. Not that people that would have voted for Biden will vote for Trump now, but that they just won't vote at all. That's how Trump won in 2016 and that would be how he would win this year too. The more voter apathy there is the more it favors Trump.
Everybody who is posting these comments don't realize that old people exist and still get their news from TV. They aren't going to go online and read all the apologetics and Trump debunkings. This debate will be literally the only exposure they have to the candidates. And the scariest part of that... old people vote, big time.
denying that people can change their minds because of a debate can and will lose us this electiob
This is such a fucking disaster. Democrats fucked up when they let Hillary run and all of her issues paved the way for Trump to get elected the first time. Biden wasn't a good candidate 4 years ago, but he was better than Trump. Now? He doesn't sound like he's capable of making decisions that impact our country. He could barely get complete sentence out. Half of what he said didn't make sense. Trump demolished Biden last night and no amount of Biden press or Trump fact checking can undo that damage. Trump just stood there and lied while Biden looked like he forgot which room is his at the retirement home.
Why is nobody panicking on republican side over a blatant liar in Donald who answered no questions?
It’s depressing but it doesn’t change my vote. Trump gave us this SCOTUS and a lot of other bad stuff. Fuck him.
I mean I don't think our votes are the problem. There's a lot of people out there who already decided who they are voting for. But I can't imagine an undecided voter in swing state seeing that performance and being enthusiastic
For everyone saying “doesn’t change anything I’m still not gonna vote for trump” The issue is the US doesn’t have compulsory voting. The game isn’t about changing minds of who to vote for, it’s about convincing enough people to like your guy to go and vote. Having a candidate people can’t get enthusiastic about is how Trump got elected. Don’t repeat 2016. Get someone charismatic with energy and personality and presence who people can actually care about.
Elite? Everyone who wants democracy has been afraid, our fears were validated, and now we are ALL freaked the fuck out!
On form as usual for the Democratic Party.
Bit late now. I mean who ever could have seen it coming….
That entire debate was just a cheapfake. Biden actually ran out on the stage and spouted off his wisdom at an incredible pace. Totally edited to make him look bad. Seriously though, just went back and watched clips from the 2020 Democratic debate and it's astonishing how much Biden has declined since then. He was sharp and witty at that time. Will the democrats do the right thing and drop Biden for another candidate?
Not just elites.. us regular democrats are pretty concerned also
The debate confirmed the polls, people are not comfortable with a 81 years old running for the presidency regardless of how good he is, how smart, how strong and healthy he is. Bad decision to run again and to prove he’s behind in polls to a lying convicted criminal. No panic here, I got banned before and downvoted tons because I pointed out some of his positions and decision to run will risk democracy itself in the US
All set up to make Biden look worse. Sure, he's aged terribly but the media knew what they were doing by not regulating or fact checking this whole debate. The moderator was completely useless. Now they'll spin it as "Trump won" even though he couldn't answer a question and kept lying throughout. Dems need to step it up and keep driving the facts about what Biden has successfully done during his term and that this debate is no indication on how the President will control our Country. Media and GOP are the scum of the Earth.
Obviously I’m still voting against Trump. But my confidence in Biden went from low to abysmal.
Al Franken 2024
Settle down. Does anybody actually believe that opinions were changed last night?
Old ass Democrats are going to cost y'all democracy and they're not even going to be alive to see the ramifications.
So I’m still voting Biden. But what do we think about running Gavin Newsom instead this year?
They had all the opportunities in the world to pick a younger, charismatic leader and they blew it