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In addition to the headline the article includes:
>When the survey asked respondents to choose between Biden and former President Trump, 45% chose the president and 44% chose the former commander-in-chief.
Which suggests there are voters who believe that Biden should be replaced but might vote for him anyway if he were to remain a nominee.
Interestingly the article also points out:
>That shows "President Joe Biden has lost no immediate ground to Trump," per Morning Consult's findings.
We may have to wait for polls in a couple of days to see if anything changed after this debate.
Biden most certainly lost ground among independents.
Team Stay Home gained a lot of voters last night. There is no scenario where that turns out well for Biden.
I don't doubt that there is some overlap between Independents and those who plan to stay home, but has there been any polling among Independents regarding this debate yet? The polls on 538 so far don't suggest that much has changed post-debate which makes me think that we may get better info in a couple of days. I'm sure pollsters asking whether people plan to stay home will be a frequently asked question.
I think whatever the pollsters find will be reflective of the knee jerk reaction from the debate.
Polls didn’t shift much for Trump or Biden after the NY trial verdict. The difference between the 2 is that the court room was closed to cameras and the debate laid bare in HD every single concern voters had about Biden and put an exclamation point on them.
That's a reasonable expectation to have, but until the polls come out with more information it's a bit too speculative for me. I'll be keeping a keen eye out for now.
Give it till Monday or Tuesday.
Biden went out and wrecked the car, pretty bad. It takes insurance adjusters and body shops a bit to come up with an estimate on the damages.
I do not understand the pro Biden people. Nobody that was going to vote for Biden would not vote for someone like Whitmer. It's the independent voters and left leaning voters who would rather stay home than vote for Biden, whom we need to win over.
It was wrong then, and it’s wrong now. This election isn’t about strongly partisan voters, it’s about undecided voters. You’re not going to convince undecided voters to vote for your party by causing historic levels of chaos within your own party just months before the election.
You almost got there but then went the entirely wrong direction with it. We are living in the era of historic chaos. Changing out a terrible candidate with months left till the election would barely be a blip on the radar these days. You’re not going to convince undecided voters to vote for your party by continuing to run a candidate that just showed them he belongs in hospice more than the White House.
And removing Biden won’t alienate his supporters? It’s a guaranteed loss if you deliberately disenfranchise the people who voted for him in 2020, knowing he would likely run again as the incumbent in 2024.
I voted for him in 2020 and wouldn't feel disenfranchised at all. In fact part of what helped me be confident voting for him in 2020 was his repeated public assurances that he would only serve one term.
You should probably work on empathizing with people that aren’t you. I also voted for him, but that doesn’t mean I supported him throughout the election, as I voted for Bernie. But some people did actually support him and continue to support him. They are neither you nor me, but I can still recognize that they exist and would be pissed off for being disenfranchised.
> his repeated public assurances that he would only serve one term
[That is not what he said](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1099766)… Don’t act like you have the answer when you don’t even know the facts of the situation.
I will point out that even in this poll Biden has a narrow lead 45-44 over Trump.
But enthusiasm is important. And manypeople might be enthusiastic to vote against a candidate, but very few seem enthusiastic to vote for a candidate this year.
Polls are absolutely meaningless in close elections. Hillary was ahead of Trump in every single poll but lost because the voters who showed up for Obama in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania did not turn out for her. I genuinely do not understand how people think that an 81 year old Biden who is showing clear signs of cognitive decline and had mediocre approval numbers before the disastrous debate is going to get anywhere near the level of turnout that he did in the middle of the pandemic in 2020.
He’s also running against someone who not was not a convicted criminal, adjudicated rapist, and adjudicated fraudster who tried to overturn an election in 2020.
I mean, he was always those things. We knew exactly who Trump was in 2020.
He was talking about denying election results throughout the election season. We already knew he was a rapist and a criminal and a fraud and a moron, etc etc etc.
You can't pretend that anyone's opinion on him has really changed. Even making it 'official' by convicting him is irrelevant. His supporters just think it was a political hit job and his detractors already knew he was a crook.
Biden is running against the same Trump, but Trump is not running against the same Biden.
You guys keep saying that as if it's going to somehow convince all these Trump voters of anything. What you're all so frustrated by is the fact that we've seen Trump be Trump for a decade now. None of what he did was new. It's the same as 2016 and 2020.
The convictions *don't matter*. His record *doesn't matter*. None of what he does matters because it's already expected. That's why no one's going on about the fact he lied. We knew he was going to do that from the start.
What we didn't expect was the condition Joe was in and him to go on meandering and stuttering rants that end with him saying we're going to defeat medicaid followed by an open mouth blank stare into the camera.
The novel thing is what people will naturally fixate on. Trump is just background noise at this point. You can tune him out at this point.
I do, none of these suggestions are electable vs Biden in poll after poll.
Whitmer can do it because I say so...polls say wrong, wrong & wrong.
"It's just a name rec thing" And Trump won't vet her every word, every single increment of her past life, and statements, also attaching Biden to her, she'll just get no vetting scot free?
Also see Newsom, neither is stupid- nor is Bernie, nor is Kamala: there's a reason they're protecting Biden.
>Trump will vet her every word
Ok and Biden can't even put words together, he most certainly could not take the heat last night. What is the point of trotting out a shitshow because we're too conservative (non-politically speaking) to take a shot on a better candidate? Let's just pretend beating Trump is a cakewalk like 2016.
Vetting is a pretty big deal. The amount of skeletons that can come out of the closet, real or not, without enough news cycles to overcome it is a problem. Everyone knows everything there is to know about Biden nationwide. Anyone else? Nope.
Kamala polls worse than Biden, for whatever reason she excites no one. If you pick anyone else you've fractured the party. None of the potential 2028 candidates would want to be the hail mary and tarnish a future run. It's all just a pipe dream that isn't worth entertaining. It is what it is, make sure anyone you know isn't apathetic about it.
>Vetting is a pretty big deal. The amount of skeletons that can come out of the closet, real or not, without enough news cycles to overcome it is a problem
Most of the names being mentioned are being groomed for 2028. They have already been thoroughly vetted.
The problem is switching now is a fucking mess. Democrats are already arguing about who would replace him. We’ll be fighting each other and playing into a narrative of confusion and weakness and Trump will just smugly sit there.
I’m one of those “pro-Biden” people. I’ve watched independents and left leaning voters abandon the party every year since Clinton.
There’s always a new reason, always a new apoplectic reaction to something. This year it’s ‘too old’.
I try to imagine how different things would have been had Gore not been abandoned by the left when he was too stiff. Imagine the climate policies that would have been in place.
Thankfully not all, but still, many on the left as well as independents like pretend they are above getting their hands dirty and do the work needed. Right now the work is literally fighting fascism.
If thats not enough of a reason I’d point to Biden’s sizable list of accomplishments.
Sure a younger candidate would be more ideal, but thats not what we have as an option. Dig in, dig deep. This fight is not just about electing one person.
A party that can't stand behind its own presumptive nominee when the going gets tough is not one I can take seriously. I would be HARD PRESSED to vote for whoever replaces him in this scenario.
Hm. I'm not an American. But I probably follow the US election a lot more than the average American. For example. I heard the names Whitmer and Newsom this election cycle. Not so much before. I know the states they are from and that they are Governors. I did have to google both of them to know what they look like.
I can't name a single thing they're done, good or bad. I don't know how popular they are. And If I don't know these things, the majority of Americans (outside their own states) won't know either.
Wouldn't you risk losing states like Maine, Virginia, New Hampshire, New Mexico with someone like Whitmer or Newsom? Maybe even Pennsylvania?
Name recognition is huge in an election, and so is being incumbent. I wouldn't be surprised if Kennedy stole a few extra % in those states against Whitmer or Newsom just because of his name, and people don't know who any of these people are.
Why would more people go out and vote for someone they don't know? Feels like most of the people here on this Reddit only sees the election through your own eyes and yes in that case switching out Biden does sound like a legit option at this point.
Biden has been polling pretty close to Trump. If the polls are a bit wrong in Biden's favor, he might actually be winning... We haven't seen any polls from after the debate yet. I saw a few polls with Newsome polling like 10-15 points behind Trump in Jan-Feb in PA and the other swing states.
Now, I'm not saying that these people would lose with 15% in the swing states. But I'm saying that there is no evidence that they would do better than Biden. There is very little time to get the people to know them, and I'm not sure if they have enough funds or time to actually pull that off. They would have to spend money in states Biden wouldn't just because people don't know them.
I also think the election is far enough away so that people will forget about this debate.
Whitmer actually polls much worse against Trump. https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/
That poll has 22% undecided, largely because they haven't heard of Whitmer I assume. That would change quickly if she were the new nominee, and she would gain most of Biden's support if he dropped out.
Yeah. This is game 7. It's a must win. We gotta bench Biden and go with the younger talent.
Our chances are better with Whitmer or Newsome or Pritzker or any number of other Democrats than with Biden. I firmly believe that.
lol. The conventions haven’t even happened yet. It’s game 1 at most.
Terminally online people like ourselves regularly declare “this is the end of (enter candidate).”
This debate won’t matter in 3 months.
Yeah, right up until the next debate where he may or may not have the same exact performance. But by that time, it really will be too late. Do you really want to gamble with that when he's already wildly unpopular?
Its got a better chance of winning than the guy who just told the country he beat Medicare and stared dead-eyed into space for the better part of the debate.
Leaving Kamala behind could alienate some voters or depress turnout. If you aren't gonna Kamala you need better justification than the state they live in.
Sanders got 2nd in the last real primary. That's solid justification.
I would take Harris over Biden at this point, honestly. Though I honestly doubt she could win. I love Bernie but he's even older than Biden, though admittedly a lot sharper. The best bet in my opinion would be a midwesterner from a swing state, which Whitmer fulfills. But you are right that passing over Harris would have to be addressed.
If anything the debate proved age is just a number. Very few are saying Trump looked too old despite being of similar age to both Biden and Bernie. Biden's health is the real problem not his age.
At least Bernie can motivate younger voters whose turnout fluctuates the most. And can even the most corporate Democrat really argue that older Democrats would flock back to Trump instead of holding their nose and voting Sanders? Maybe before Roe. Before 1/6. Nobody is leaving now just because Sanders is more progressive than Biden.
That's a fantasy. They'd be more likely to offer the nomination to a Republican than they would to Bernie.
And yes, "the state they live in" matters if we're talking about a swing state we'll need in November. Electoral math is a legitimate justification, and a big one.
Probably what matters more is not giving off the appearance of the DNC corruptly choosing a candidate behind the scenes. Bernie earned 2nd place last go around, polled well in head 2 heads against Trump, and motivates the demographic of voters whose turnout is most volatile.
Biden isn't the DNC and 2024 isn't a normal election. It isn't like 2020 at all. Not after Jan 6 and Roe. Democrats have very little reason to worry about losing older Democrat voters to Trump. They aren't gonna switch sides after a little red baiting by corporate media. They are locked in.
What matters is getting younger voters out and not creating a controversy over anti democratic processes
I don’t doubt that she did in February. I think it might be slightly different now. I also think these polls skew towards an incumbent as the presumptive nominee and she would poll differently if the nomination was open without Biden in the running.
That poll doesn't have Bernie Sanders on it despite him getting 2nd in the last two real democratic primaries. And despite Bernie always polling well in head to heads against Trump in past elections. Better than HRC in every major head 2 head of 2016 and better than Biden in many 2020 head 2 heads.
Bernie doesn't have the same cognitive issues of Biden and is a proven tested and hardened debator with a knack for exposing the corruption of the billionaire class.
Hard to argue besides maybe Kamala there is anyone beyond Bernie who is more deserving of a democratic nomination given his past performance
That's not going to happen, although I expect we'll see Sanders campaigning for whoever's on the ticket. This is not a game of who's "deserving". It's about math.
The math supports Bernie more than any other candidate. 2024 is a very unique election. After Jan 6 and Roe, Democrats don't have to worry as much about older Democrats fleeing back to Trump because they don't get a bland enough candidate. Those voters are locked in. This will be proven by the polling barely moving despite how poor Biden's performance was.
And Turnout doesn't fluctuate much except with younger voters. Where Bernie has proven he can marginally improve their turnout enough to matter in a general.
If they attack Bernie's age it won't hold up after the debate. Nobody cared that Biden was twice Paul Ryan's age in that debate because Biden performed phenomenally. He just can't anymore for health reasons that Bernie doesn't share.
Furthermore anyone else besides Kamala will create havoc within the ranks. Even Kamala who polled at like 2% before dropping out in 2020 could be seen as the DNC forcing an anti democratic process.
I'm not sure whether the math truly supports Bernie, but the DNC sure as hell doesn't, so it's not going to happen.
Replacing Biden may cause havoc, period, although I expect most voters will be quietly relieved. Although the KHive will be outraged if Harris isn't the pick (whether it's now or in 2028), most Dems would be relieved about that, as well.
As for "forcing an antidemocratic process", the DNC has never given a shit before, so why would they start now?
>Although the KHive will be outraged is Harris isn't the pick
Agreed but it is harder to argue against Bernie who did do well in the last 2 primaries and has already been campaigning in swing states. Replace Kamala with someone like Gavin or Gretchen and they will only be more upset.
I honestly think Republicans have gone so far right that even much of the business community could get behind Sanders if it is the most reliable way of stopping Trump. Those tariffs would destroy the economy
Don't bogart that doobie, man. KHive's not going to be less outraged if the pick is Sanders instead of Newsom or Whitmer--and we do not live in a universe where Sanders would be the pick.
Sanders has been in Congress longer than any of them and placed 2nd the last time we had a real vote of actual Democrats. They would also salivate at the thought of Bernie being only a 1 term president for the same age reasons while Gavin or Whitmer would certainly run again.
Maybe they would be as outraged but they shouldn't be.
Gretchen leapfrogging Kamala is a tough position to be in for the Dems.
If they don't want to appear elitist they either need to go with Kamala or go with whoever got 2nd in the last real primary Democrats had.
I don't think Biden's numbers will change much but he was still losing before the debate. A candidate like Sanders could dominate Trump in a debate while bringing in younger voters whose turnout fluctuates greatly. If anything the lack of real movement in the polls after this debate will be proof Democrats aren't gonna lose voters if they switch candidates. The voters are locked in. Beyond the young ones who might just stay home
I don’t think this threat will last for that long to be honest. In 2028, Gen Z and Millennials will make up the majority of voters, Trump won’t be fit to run, and republicans will never be able to win over the younger majority.
This election is make or break, it’s why republicans have been particularly ruthless this time around.
> in 2028 Gen Z and Millennials will make up the majority of voters
I used to really take stock in this. I thought it would help out a lot in 2024 vs 2020. But I actually see more young people being radicalized than I expected. I live in a pretty liberal area and many of the kids at my local high school are trumpers despite being raised in an school where trans kids were accepted whole heartedly and the school allowed walkout protests for George Floyd. There’s a strange backlash against progressive thought.
> There’s a strange backlash against progressive thought.
Yeah because if you question it then you’re chastised. Dollars to donuts this comment is downvoted for even mentioning the fact.
Generally yeah, if the goal is promote a society where there are different classes of people with different rights based on race, gender, personality, or preferred form of personal expression, it would be discouraged. Sadly, that’s what I see a lot of. It’s nonsense brainwashing like “women shouldn’t work. Women should let a man speak for them. Women should ask their man permission”. It doubly concerning that these same people are drawn to trumpism.
The idea that anything other than progressive ideology is automatically regressive is exactly what I’m talking about. You are sowing the seeds of your own destruction
Many topics are debatable and full of subtlety. I would hope that the question of treating people with respect and as individuals isn’t one of those topics.
If that was the full extent of the current ideology then few people would complain. But when you extend it from how you treat people to how you think then you’ve crossed a line.
For example, most people will treat trans individuals with kindness and respect, but asking them to believe that they’re literally the gender they identify as or they’re bigoted is effectively policing their thoughts.
When you give people that ultimatum you can’t be surprised when they don’t agree with you.
To claim that Democrats stand for democracy is absolutely ridiculous. We don't know who makes decisions. We have no idea who appoints the cabinet. They expect us to believe that the guy we saw on the stage last night is running America. Sorry, but enough is enough.
Some people here need to take a step back and really self evaluate. You don't have to live in another planet like Maga does. Normal people can all see it with their own eyes. This guy isn't just old, he has clearly deteriorated mentally. Go look at his debate with Paul Ryan on 2012, then with trump in 2020. It's a clear decline. Stop trying to deny what everyone else is clearly seeing, and this isn't even what's behind the scenes
Yep. There is so much rationalization. It’s really sad that people wont acknowledge what is happening. All the evidence is there but they have to be open to seeing it.
I thought the trump people were the kings of rationalizing, but r/politics is doing some hardcore mental gymnastics right now. It's going to look like ronald regans map if we can't get back to earth
What kind of convention scenario exists where the Democrats can come up with a candidate to “defend democracy” in a way that makes it somewhat look like the will of their voters versus a primary that was stolen?
The DNC royally royally screwed the pooch here.
In all of America, 14 million people voted for Biden in a primary election this year. That's less than voted for him in the 2020 primary. That's less than the people who will vote in November in *just the state of California* . And it's way fucking less than the 50 million who tuned into the disastrous debate this week.
Those 14 million will be fine voting again for a different democrat. I'm more concerned about the hundreds of millions of Americans and a 2nd Trump term.
Maybe they didn’t watch it, but they damn sure have heard about it from fam/friends/work or seen clips on FB, X, news, SC, etc etc etc. It’s 2024 news is everywhere instantly
Seriously. What is there to lose here?
Give us a candidate without any significant flaws.
Clinton lost because too many people didn't like her.. Including myself. If Biden loses it will be because he's too old to be president for another 4 years.
Give us anyone under the age of 70 and democrats will win.
I think that people generally would have preferred someone else for a while. Polls have shown that Biden hasn’t had a positive approval rating in most polls for years.
But the Dems don’t have anyone in the wings that they can pull up right now. Biden would have to drop out on his own to let another person take his place, and he’s given no indication that he’s going to do that.
So the Dems have to run with their guy, for better or worse. If you’re a Democrat voter, then get behind your guy. The alternative was on stage last night.
I agree. I appreciate Biden picking up the pieces from the Trump presidency and moving us forward, but I do wish he would pass the torch on to the next generation of leaders. However, the worst thing that could happen to our country is to endure another four years of terrible Trump leadership.
Debates have no major bearing on who gets elected , 60% polled said trump won the debate. But trumps favorability only rose .7% while bidens dropped .3%. What will matter is how the independent and undecided voters feel on Nov 5, 2020, like it always does.
Usually yes, but this debate was a car crash for Biden and Trumps' team just have to keep pushing out videos showing Bidens terrible responses. They don't have to do much else to win over any swing voters. This has to be the worst outcome of a TV debate of all time.
It would be impossible to set up a primary and a full presidential campaign in less than 4 months. The logistics, grassroots movement and the name recognition for the leading nominee wouldn't be there for campaign victory.
Newsom would be seen as elitist (California) and part of the establishment by the midwest swing voters and progressives
Whitmer and Harris would both have trouble getting in as they're women (+ with harris being black, a cop and who prosecuted non violent drug offenses)
Buttigieg is gay which means he may have trouble with swing voters
Not to mention that any replacement other than Harris would make black and POC voters angry as they're passing over the vice president.
If biden needed to be replaced it should've been much earlier so that his replacement could build name recognition and a proper campaign with a few rallies under the candidates belt
The only viable replacement would be Harris as she can just take over the biden campaign and she's well known (she's more unpopular than biden though and doesn't have charisma)
Harris has made herself unpopular, her being passed over isn't going to make minorities angry. Minorities aren't simpletons that just look at someone's skin color and decide they're voting for that person, they understand kamala harris is unlikable and very unpopular, and there's good reason for it, exaggerated a bit, but regardless it is. Gavin Newsom is a very good politican and talker, he can win over a lot of people, his main problem is his baggage and the perceptions of being governor of California.
Buttegig isn't a very good politician and comes across as disingenuous and weak. It's not because he's gay.
This is part of the problem with the democratic party, you guys think it's all about these labels and steer conversations into unimportant bullcrap. Put someone that is remotely likeable and doesn't come off as disingenuous and he or she will completely wipe the floor with trump. We saw this in 2020. The real excitement was worth Sanders, but when he didn't get the nomination, biden still won because he just seemed like a normal politican, and that's all you need to beat trump. If they can get someone exciting then they will win in a landslide. If they keep the guy that looks like he's got less than 5 years of life in him, independents aren't going to vote for him, Republicans aren't going to cross over, and he's going to loose a lot of democrats, especially those currently struggling. So where is the path to victory? Where does he gain votes from? This campaign is embarrassing and is going to hurt the democratic party in the eyes of normal people for a very long time. How are you going to believe the people that were denying what you could see with your own eyes
Anyone who follows trump or is an undecided swing voter right now is clearly stupid, not just minorities. so quite a few of them will be angry at the VICE PRESIDENT being passed over as a replacement.
Biden gave quite an energetic speech this morning, and polling suggests that support for him or trump didn't really change because of the debate. Calls for him to resign are premature. We should at least give him a chance to step up and put this behind him. It's early enough in the campaign that if Biden keeps this energy up, voters can dismiss the first debate as a fluke or a bad day.
I don't think regular people are stupid for looking at 2 people, and one can't form a proper full sentence and deciding both choices suck, and staying home. Most people don't know all the garbage that trump has done, and biden does not look physically and mentally fit to lead a country. Stop gaslighting and calling people stupid for what everyone can see plain with their own eyes. Nobody watched that teleprompter campaign speech this morning. What everyone did watch is one of the worst debate performances ever. People have been yelling for months wayyy before this that biden is not fit to go against trump, and should have just stepped down after one term. This isn't premature, it's long overdue
Anyone who thinks Project 2025, abortion bans, or a president who wants to be dictator are in any way acceptable enough to stay home for isn't worthy of respect. that goes for anyone wilfully living under a rock for the last 4 years
Maybe it would've been best if biden was a one term president and had groomed a good replacement by now. But rome can't be built in a day, and like it or not we're stuck with biden or Harris as it's too close to the election to pick anyone else.
Yes, biden's old, and his performance in the debates was terrible (he looked half dead on stage) but I just don't see another way forward.
Anyone who trades democracy for cheaper eggs is not a patriot.
Well, the DNC would select Newsom if given the chance, and it would cause a split with progressive voters with some who may choose to stay home come election night
I want someone who can lead us for the next 4 years. Last night’s performance showed Joe is near entering a nursing home. Let’s get a candidate who is younger.
this. We are getting closer and closer to world war. Biden cant do this shit anymore - folks need to stop kidding themselves. Its simple: find a better candidate, and let the voters decide. Why are folks here so afraid of that? Biden was never the best candidate to begin with.
The headline does not match the math in the article and the figure include Trump voting republicans who’d only benefit by having Biden replaced:
Of Democratic voters, 21% say Biden should "definitely not" be replaced, and 20% say "probably not."
When the survey asked respondents to choose between Biden and former President Trump, 45% chose the president and 44% chose the former commander-in-chief.
The results were similar to those from a poll following Trump's criminal conviction on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records linked to a $130,000 hush money payment.
That shows "President Joe Biden has lost no immediate ground to Trump," per Morning Consult's findings.
By the numbers: Still, most respondents—57%, of those who viewed the debate—said Trump outperformed Biden. That includes 19% of Democrats, 60% of Independents and 93% of Republicans.
It’s Kamala Harris or no one.
The Backbone of the democratic primary voters are black women. Replacing the current VP and next in line constitutionally with a white man or white woman instead of her is just asking the party to splinter.
It’s Biden or Harris. That’s it. There’s no other choice. You aren’t replacing the will of millions and millions of primary DNC voters.
Pretty racist assumption that black voters can only vote based on skin color and can intellectually evaluate a candidate. Kamala Harris is very unpopular with the general public and would be a poor replacement choice. The only person worse would be Hillary Clinton. I don't understand why there is this need to prop up these immensely unpopular candidates
And how can anyone else build a viable campaign in less than 4 months?
The logistics to even set up a campaign take a lot of money and time. Signs, tv + internet ads, merchandise, donation money, meet and greets, a grassroots movement and campaign rallies are needed to build up a candidate, and I think 4 months is too short of a time to build up a good campaign which can beat trump.
Harris can take over the Biden campaign, which is why she's the only viable alternative.
Because trump is a very poor candidate and doesn't need much to beat him. Signs, ads, and merchandise aren't needed for presidential campaigns. All eyes will be on that person, this isn't some senate or congressional race. They need some guys campaign rallies and to lay out a clear vision. This can be done. 4 months is plenty of time to do some rallies and lay out your plan, maybe a debate with trump if he would accept it. I doubt he would though, there's a reason he accepted 1 with biden but 0 with his republican competition
We can't underestimate trump. He's a stupid liar who doesn't have much support outside of his own base, but we can't dismiss the advantages biden has. He's the incumbent, well known, and he appeals to all sides of the political spectrum.
Thinking that Trump is easy to beat is the kind of hubris the democrats had, which allowed trump to win in 2016.
it would be less risky to stay the course and have biden step up and give the energy and vigor that voters expect from a leader rather than make a risky bet on another candidate so close to the election
He's in fact objectively stronger than in either 2016, or 2020, right now mainly because while Trump has not gained any real support overall- he's succeeded very well in breaking down his opposition inch by inch into divisions, divide and conquer being his strategy, while his cult is diehard for him no matter what.
Trump has never had better polling in H2Hs than in this cycle in 2024, against any Dem with a name, in fact I think it's understated that he's not weak at all anymore vs a generic R- arguably, the opposite.
Biden had abysmal approval ratings before the debate. There's no undoing the other night, he's not getting younger. If he stays, then this is over, trump wins. Biden lost all the normal people in that debate. All he can hope for is trump does something to loose an equal amount
Why then isn't Sanders considered next? he got 2nd in the last 2 primaries instead of just being handpicked by delegates. Nobody doubts he could dominate Trump in a debate. Motivates the group of voters whose turnout fluctuates the most. Do people really think older Democrats would leave the party and go back to Trump after all he has done? I don't. Seems like only upside
It's not a no brainer because she, like most other Dems, has problems with white voters as well but she's the VP and obv. Biden's heir apparent as things stand.
If it's not him, then it'll be her and whatever DNC establishment candidate they deem appealing-- at this point in time.
Replacing Biden with an 11th hour stalking horse candidate at the convention should be infuriating to card-carrying regular Democratic voters.
One of the biggest arguments this election has been about “defending democracy.” And you have a party that stopped a primary before it could begin, threatened to blackball any candidate who challenged Biden in a primary, and who would then be willing to take the matter out of the hands of their own voters in a back room convention deal.
I can’t think of a more undemocratic way of “defending democracy.”
The party bosses and handlers KNEW this was a problem 2 years ago. They KNEW it.
The Democratic base has every right to be furious. And they should be.
People on here can try and bully you into voting for biden all they want, but what you're saying is what a lot of Americans are saying after the debate that aren't on the Maga boat. The anti trump argument can only go so far. This is crazy, everyone is in such a fantasy world.
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In addition to the headline the article includes: >When the survey asked respondents to choose between Biden and former President Trump, 45% chose the president and 44% chose the former commander-in-chief. Which suggests there are voters who believe that Biden should be replaced but might vote for him anyway if he were to remain a nominee. Interestingly the article also points out: >That shows "President Joe Biden has lost no immediate ground to Trump," per Morning Consult's findings. We may have to wait for polls in a couple of days to see if anything changed after this debate.
Biden most certainly lost ground among independents. Team Stay Home gained a lot of voters last night. There is no scenario where that turns out well for Biden.
I don't doubt that there is some overlap between Independents and those who plan to stay home, but has there been any polling among Independents regarding this debate yet? The polls on 538 so far don't suggest that much has changed post-debate which makes me think that we may get better info in a couple of days. I'm sure pollsters asking whether people plan to stay home will be a frequently asked question.
I think whatever the pollsters find will be reflective of the knee jerk reaction from the debate. Polls didn’t shift much for Trump or Biden after the NY trial verdict. The difference between the 2 is that the court room was closed to cameras and the debate laid bare in HD every single concern voters had about Biden and put an exclamation point on them.
That's a reasonable expectation to have, but until the polls come out with more information it's a bit too speculative for me. I'll be keeping a keen eye out for now.
Proof? Stats? Polls?
Give it till Monday or Tuesday. Biden went out and wrecked the car, pretty bad. It takes insurance adjusters and body shops a bit to come up with an estimate on the damages.
Gretchen Whitmer can take Michigan. Possibly Pennsylvania. I feel like I'm banging my head against a table.
I do not understand the pro Biden people. Nobody that was going to vote for Biden would not vote for someone like Whitmer. It's the independent voters and left leaning voters who would rather stay home than vote for Biden, whom we need to win over.
This is the exact argument Bernie supporters made in 2016. Anyone who was voting Clinton was going party line anyways.
It was wrong then, and it’s wrong now. This election isn’t about strongly partisan voters, it’s about undecided voters. You’re not going to convince undecided voters to vote for your party by causing historic levels of chaos within your own party just months before the election.
You almost got there but then went the entirely wrong direction with it. We are living in the era of historic chaos. Changing out a terrible candidate with months left till the election would barely be a blip on the radar these days. You’re not going to convince undecided voters to vote for your party by continuing to run a candidate that just showed them he belongs in hospice more than the White House.
Bingo
Well, hospice might be a little extreme, but assisted living for sure. At what point is this elder abuse?
Which is why Hillary won?
No she won because she beat Trump in the debates. Oh wait, she still lost even though she won the debates.
And a big part of that was an alienated left that largely stayed home. The same thing is happening with Biden.
And removing Biden won’t alienate his supporters? It’s a guaranteed loss if you deliberately disenfranchise the people who voted for him in 2020, knowing he would likely run again as the incumbent in 2024.
I voted for him in 2020 and wouldn't feel disenfranchised at all. In fact part of what helped me be confident voting for him in 2020 was his repeated public assurances that he would only serve one term.
Forgot about that. He must have forgot.
You should probably work on empathizing with people that aren’t you. I also voted for him, but that doesn’t mean I supported him throughout the election, as I voted for Bernie. But some people did actually support him and continue to support him. They are neither you nor me, but I can still recognize that they exist and would be pissed off for being disenfranchised. > his repeated public assurances that he would only serve one term [That is not what he said](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1099766)… Don’t act like you have the answer when you don’t even know the facts of the situation.
I will point out that even in this poll Biden has a narrow lead 45-44 over Trump. But enthusiasm is important. And manypeople might be enthusiastic to vote against a candidate, but very few seem enthusiastic to vote for a candidate this year.
Polls are absolutely meaningless in close elections. Hillary was ahead of Trump in every single poll but lost because the voters who showed up for Obama in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania did not turn out for her. I genuinely do not understand how people think that an 81 year old Biden who is showing clear signs of cognitive decline and had mediocre approval numbers before the disastrous debate is going to get anywhere near the level of turnout that he did in the middle of the pandemic in 2020.
He’s also running against someone who not was not a convicted criminal, adjudicated rapist, and adjudicated fraudster who tried to overturn an election in 2020.
I mean, he was always those things. We knew exactly who Trump was in 2020. He was talking about denying election results throughout the election season. We already knew he was a rapist and a criminal and a fraud and a moron, etc etc etc. You can't pretend that anyone's opinion on him has really changed. Even making it 'official' by convicting him is irrelevant. His supporters just think it was a political hit job and his detractors already knew he was a crook. Biden is running against the same Trump, but Trump is not running against the same Biden.
You guys keep saying that as if it's going to somehow convince all these Trump voters of anything. What you're all so frustrated by is the fact that we've seen Trump be Trump for a decade now. None of what he did was new. It's the same as 2016 and 2020. The convictions *don't matter*. His record *doesn't matter*. None of what he does matters because it's already expected. That's why no one's going on about the fact he lied. We knew he was going to do that from the start. What we didn't expect was the condition Joe was in and him to go on meandering and stuttering rants that end with him saying we're going to defeat medicaid followed by an open mouth blank stare into the camera. The novel thing is what people will naturally fixate on. Trump is just background noise at this point. You can tune him out at this point.
I have an idea: what if trump had to run against someone younger?
I do, none of these suggestions are electable vs Biden in poll after poll. Whitmer can do it because I say so...polls say wrong, wrong & wrong. "It's just a name rec thing" And Trump won't vet her every word, every single increment of her past life, and statements, also attaching Biden to her, she'll just get no vetting scot free? Also see Newsom, neither is stupid- nor is Bernie, nor is Kamala: there's a reason they're protecting Biden.
>Trump will vet her every word Ok and Biden can't even put words together, he most certainly could not take the heat last night. What is the point of trotting out a shitshow because we're too conservative (non-politically speaking) to take a shot on a better candidate? Let's just pretend beating Trump is a cakewalk like 2016.
Vetting is a pretty big deal. The amount of skeletons that can come out of the closet, real or not, without enough news cycles to overcome it is a problem. Everyone knows everything there is to know about Biden nationwide. Anyone else? Nope. Kamala polls worse than Biden, for whatever reason she excites no one. If you pick anyone else you've fractured the party. None of the potential 2028 candidates would want to be the hail mary and tarnish a future run. It's all just a pipe dream that isn't worth entertaining. It is what it is, make sure anyone you know isn't apathetic about it.
>Vetting is a pretty big deal. The amount of skeletons that can come out of the closet, real or not, without enough news cycles to overcome it is a problem Most of the names being mentioned are being groomed for 2028. They have already been thoroughly vetted.
The problem is switching now is a fucking mess. Democrats are already arguing about who would replace him. We’ll be fighting each other and playing into a narrative of confusion and weakness and Trump will just smugly sit there.
I’m one of those “pro-Biden” people. I’ve watched independents and left leaning voters abandon the party every year since Clinton. There’s always a new reason, always a new apoplectic reaction to something. This year it’s ‘too old’. I try to imagine how different things would have been had Gore not been abandoned by the left when he was too stiff. Imagine the climate policies that would have been in place. Thankfully not all, but still, many on the left as well as independents like pretend they are above getting their hands dirty and do the work needed. Right now the work is literally fighting fascism. If thats not enough of a reason I’d point to Biden’s sizable list of accomplishments. Sure a younger candidate would be more ideal, but thats not what we have as an option. Dig in, dig deep. This fight is not just about electing one person.
A party that can't stand behind its own presumptive nominee when the going gets tough is not one I can take seriously. I would be HARD PRESSED to vote for whoever replaces him in this scenario.
Hm. I'm not an American. But I probably follow the US election a lot more than the average American. For example. I heard the names Whitmer and Newsom this election cycle. Not so much before. I know the states they are from and that they are Governors. I did have to google both of them to know what they look like. I can't name a single thing they're done, good or bad. I don't know how popular they are. And If I don't know these things, the majority of Americans (outside their own states) won't know either. Wouldn't you risk losing states like Maine, Virginia, New Hampshire, New Mexico with someone like Whitmer or Newsom? Maybe even Pennsylvania? Name recognition is huge in an election, and so is being incumbent. I wouldn't be surprised if Kennedy stole a few extra % in those states against Whitmer or Newsom just because of his name, and people don't know who any of these people are. Why would more people go out and vote for someone they don't know? Feels like most of the people here on this Reddit only sees the election through your own eyes and yes in that case switching out Biden does sound like a legit option at this point. Biden has been polling pretty close to Trump. If the polls are a bit wrong in Biden's favor, he might actually be winning... We haven't seen any polls from after the debate yet. I saw a few polls with Newsome polling like 10-15 points behind Trump in Jan-Feb in PA and the other swing states. Now, I'm not saying that these people would lose with 15% in the swing states. But I'm saying that there is no evidence that they would do better than Biden. There is very little time to get the people to know them, and I'm not sure if they have enough funds or time to actually pull that off. They would have to spend money in states Biden wouldn't just because people don't know them. I also think the election is far enough away so that people will forget about this debate.
Whitmer actually polls much worse against Trump. https://emersoncollegepolling.com/february-2024-national-poll-biden-performs-strongest-against-trump-among-prominent-democrats/
That poll has 22% undecided, largely because they haven't heard of Whitmer I assume. That would change quickly if she were the new nominee, and she would gain most of Biden's support if he dropped out.
And you think 5 months before the election is a great time to attempt to elevate a largely unknown politician to the national stage?
Yeah. This is game 7. It's a must win. We gotta bench Biden and go with the younger talent. Our chances are better with Whitmer or Newsome or Pritzker or any number of other Democrats than with Biden. I firmly believe that.
lol. The conventions haven’t even happened yet. It’s game 1 at most. Terminally online people like ourselves regularly declare “this is the end of (enter candidate).” This debate won’t matter in 3 months.
I'm saying the election is Game 7. Democracy is at stake. Not hyperbole.
I agree. If Trump is elected, the world ends within 30 years. I’m not being hyperbolic either.
And Biden won't beat him at this rate
Yeah, right up until the next debate where he may or may not have the same exact performance. But by that time, it really will be too late. Do you really want to gamble with that when he's already wildly unpopular?
A random person from the street is a better choice. Nobody wants someone that you wouldn't trust with a drivers license as president
But no POTUS is trusted with a driver's license (even after leaving office)!
Its got a better chance of winning than the guy who just told the country he beat Medicare and stared dead-eyed into space for the better part of the debate.
Leaving Kamala behind could alienate some voters or depress turnout. If you aren't gonna Kamala you need better justification than the state they live in. Sanders got 2nd in the last real primary. That's solid justification.
I would take Harris over Biden at this point, honestly. Though I honestly doubt she could win. I love Bernie but he's even older than Biden, though admittedly a lot sharper. The best bet in my opinion would be a midwesterner from a swing state, which Whitmer fulfills. But you are right that passing over Harris would have to be addressed.
If anything the debate proved age is just a number. Very few are saying Trump looked too old despite being of similar age to both Biden and Bernie. Biden's health is the real problem not his age. At least Bernie can motivate younger voters whose turnout fluctuates the most. And can even the most corporate Democrat really argue that older Democrats would flock back to Trump instead of holding their nose and voting Sanders? Maybe before Roe. Before 1/6. Nobody is leaving now just because Sanders is more progressive than Biden.
That's a fantasy. They'd be more likely to offer the nomination to a Republican than they would to Bernie. And yes, "the state they live in" matters if we're talking about a swing state we'll need in November. Electoral math is a legitimate justification, and a big one.
Probably what matters more is not giving off the appearance of the DNC corruptly choosing a candidate behind the scenes. Bernie earned 2nd place last go around, polled well in head 2 heads against Trump, and motivates the demographic of voters whose turnout is most volatile. Biden isn't the DNC and 2024 isn't a normal election. It isn't like 2020 at all. Not after Jan 6 and Roe. Democrats have very little reason to worry about losing older Democrat voters to Trump. They aren't gonna switch sides after a little red baiting by corporate media. They are locked in. What matters is getting younger voters out and not creating a controversy over anti democratic processes
Most countries have relatively short election seasons so it's not exactly unprecedented
Give it a week for the debate to affect polls.
February 2024... Back when we were told Biden was doing cartwheels.
I don’t doubt that she did in February. I think it might be slightly different now. I also think these polls skew towards an incumbent as the presumptive nominee and she would poll differently if the nomination was open without Biden in the running.
That poll doesn't have Bernie Sanders on it despite him getting 2nd in the last two real democratic primaries. And despite Bernie always polling well in head to heads against Trump in past elections. Better than HRC in every major head 2 head of 2016 and better than Biden in many 2020 head 2 heads. Bernie doesn't have the same cognitive issues of Biden and is a proven tested and hardened debator with a knack for exposing the corruption of the billionaire class. Hard to argue besides maybe Kamala there is anyone beyond Bernie who is more deserving of a democratic nomination given his past performance
That's not going to happen, although I expect we'll see Sanders campaigning for whoever's on the ticket. This is not a game of who's "deserving". It's about math.
The math supports Bernie more than any other candidate. 2024 is a very unique election. After Jan 6 and Roe, Democrats don't have to worry as much about older Democrats fleeing back to Trump because they don't get a bland enough candidate. Those voters are locked in. This will be proven by the polling barely moving despite how poor Biden's performance was. And Turnout doesn't fluctuate much except with younger voters. Where Bernie has proven he can marginally improve their turnout enough to matter in a general. If they attack Bernie's age it won't hold up after the debate. Nobody cared that Biden was twice Paul Ryan's age in that debate because Biden performed phenomenally. He just can't anymore for health reasons that Bernie doesn't share. Furthermore anyone else besides Kamala will create havoc within the ranks. Even Kamala who polled at like 2% before dropping out in 2020 could be seen as the DNC forcing an anti democratic process.
I'm not sure whether the math truly supports Bernie, but the DNC sure as hell doesn't, so it's not going to happen. Replacing Biden may cause havoc, period, although I expect most voters will be quietly relieved. Although the KHive will be outraged if Harris isn't the pick (whether it's now or in 2028), most Dems would be relieved about that, as well. As for "forcing an antidemocratic process", the DNC has never given a shit before, so why would they start now?
>Although the KHive will be outraged is Harris isn't the pick Agreed but it is harder to argue against Bernie who did do well in the last 2 primaries and has already been campaigning in swing states. Replace Kamala with someone like Gavin or Gretchen and they will only be more upset. I honestly think Republicans have gone so far right that even much of the business community could get behind Sanders if it is the most reliable way of stopping Trump. Those tariffs would destroy the economy
Don't bogart that doobie, man. KHive's not going to be less outraged if the pick is Sanders instead of Newsom or Whitmer--and we do not live in a universe where Sanders would be the pick.
Sanders has been in Congress longer than any of them and placed 2nd the last time we had a real vote of actual Democrats. They would also salivate at the thought of Bernie being only a 1 term president for the same age reasons while Gavin or Whitmer would certainly run again. Maybe they would be as outraged but they shouldn't be.
It's funny, these people are telling you polls don't matter, then when you bring up Gavin Newsom and Whitmer, they use polls to discredit them
Andy Beshear and Roy Cooper would be interesting candidates.
Andy Beshear is a perfect VP. Too soft spoken for President, but would go a long way to fix the Dem/Rep split.
Proof?
If anyone thinks a woman could win in this deeply misogynistic country, they haven’t been paying attention.
Gretchen leapfrogging Kamala is a tough position to be in for the Dems. If they don't want to appear elitist they either need to go with Kamala or go with whoever got 2nd in the last real primary Democrats had. I don't think Biden's numbers will change much but he was still losing before the debate. A candidate like Sanders could dominate Trump in a debate while bringing in younger voters whose turnout fluctuates greatly. If anything the lack of real movement in the polls after this debate will be proof Democrats aren't gonna lose voters if they switch candidates. The voters are locked in. Beyond the young ones who might just stay home
Yeah, I got a real hardon for Gretchen.
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If saving democracy requires Democrats to win every election from now on, then I have some bad news for you...
I don’t think this threat will last for that long to be honest. In 2028, Gen Z and Millennials will make up the majority of voters, Trump won’t be fit to run, and republicans will never be able to win over the younger majority. This election is make or break, it’s why republicans have been particularly ruthless this time around.
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> in 2028 Gen Z and Millennials will make up the majority of voters I used to really take stock in this. I thought it would help out a lot in 2024 vs 2020. But I actually see more young people being radicalized than I expected. I live in a pretty liberal area and many of the kids at my local high school are trumpers despite being raised in an school where trans kids were accepted whole heartedly and the school allowed walkout protests for George Floyd. There’s a strange backlash against progressive thought.
> There’s a strange backlash against progressive thought. Yeah because if you question it then you’re chastised. Dollars to donuts this comment is downvoted for even mentioning the fact.
Generally yeah, if the goal is promote a society where there are different classes of people with different rights based on race, gender, personality, or preferred form of personal expression, it would be discouraged. Sadly, that’s what I see a lot of. It’s nonsense brainwashing like “women shouldn’t work. Women should let a man speak for them. Women should ask their man permission”. It doubly concerning that these same people are drawn to trumpism.
The idea that anything other than progressive ideology is automatically regressive is exactly what I’m talking about. You are sowing the seeds of your own destruction
Many topics are debatable and full of subtlety. I would hope that the question of treating people with respect and as individuals isn’t one of those topics.
If that was the full extent of the current ideology then few people would complain. But when you extend it from how you treat people to how you think then you’ve crossed a line. For example, most people will treat trans individuals with kindness and respect, but asking them to believe that they’re literally the gender they identify as or they’re bigoted is effectively policing their thoughts. When you give people that ultimatum you can’t be surprised when they don’t agree with you.
Fascism following late state capitalism is an inevitable step.
To claim that Democrats stand for democracy is absolutely ridiculous. We don't know who makes decisions. We have no idea who appoints the cabinet. They expect us to believe that the guy we saw on the stage last night is running America. Sorry, but enough is enough.
Some people here need to take a step back and really self evaluate. You don't have to live in another planet like Maga does. Normal people can all see it with their own eyes. This guy isn't just old, he has clearly deteriorated mentally. Go look at his debate with Paul Ryan on 2012, then with trump in 2020. It's a clear decline. Stop trying to deny what everyone else is clearly seeing, and this isn't even what's behind the scenes
Yep. There is so much rationalization. It’s really sad that people wont acknowledge what is happening. All the evidence is there but they have to be open to seeing it.
I thought the trump people were the kings of rationalizing, but r/politics is doing some hardcore mental gymnastics right now. It's going to look like ronald regans map if we can't get back to earth
What kind of convention scenario exists where the Democrats can come up with a candidate to “defend democracy” in a way that makes it somewhat look like the will of their voters versus a primary that was stolen? The DNC royally royally screwed the pooch here.
Their primary was non existent, nobody is going to feel screwed
In all of America, 14 million people voted for Biden in a primary election this year. That's less than voted for him in the 2020 primary. That's less than the people who will vote in November in *just the state of California* . And it's way fucking less than the 50 million who tuned into the disastrous debate this week. Those 14 million will be fine voting again for a different democrat. I'm more concerned about the hundreds of millions of Americans and a 2nd Trump term.
How many of the people polled are republicans who want chaos in the democratic party?
He can stay if he runs on a platform of expanding the Supreme Court to restore its legitimacy and rendering Thomas and Alito completely impotent.
Did you forget about the Senate?
You don’t think that announcement would spur turnout and down-ballot voting too?
No fan of the current SCOTUS, but that’s a terrible idea.
60% of voters didn't even watch the debate, give me a fuckin' break.
I saw some comments saying 60% of people wanted Biden to not run again in the last year anyway, so that hasn't changed?
Exactly this is completely irrelevant. And meant to demoralize
Biden's performance at the debate is what demoralized people
Maybe they didn’t watch it, but they damn sure have heard about it from fam/friends/work or seen clips on FB, X, news, SC, etc etc etc. It’s 2024 news is everywhere instantly
i think 60% of us wanted both candidates replaced before the debate, too.
If they did, the numbers would be worse for Biden.
Seriously. What is there to lose here? Give us a candidate without any significant flaws. Clinton lost because too many people didn't like her.. Including myself. If Biden loses it will be because he's too old to be president for another 4 years. Give us anyone under the age of 70 and democrats will win.
Even if Biden becomes incapacitated in a year there is still VP so you'll get 60 year old president anyways, so voting for Biden is a no brainer.
And even then she got more votes.
I think that people generally would have preferred someone else for a while. Polls have shown that Biden hasn’t had a positive approval rating in most polls for years. But the Dems don’t have anyone in the wings that they can pull up right now. Biden would have to drop out on his own to let another person take his place, and he’s given no indication that he’s going to do that. So the Dems have to run with their guy, for better or worse. If you’re a Democrat voter, then get behind your guy. The alternative was on stage last night.
Whitmer/Beshear. We wouldn’t even have to debate.
"But the Dems don’t have anyone in the wings that they can pull up right now." Again, this is a fact.
Sad reality, sad reality...
I can't believe we have to choose between these two. What has this country come to.
I hear you. It’s either an elderly guy who wants to preserve democracy or an elderly guy who wants to turn the county into a dictatorship.
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I agree. I appreciate Biden picking up the pieces from the Trump presidency and moving us forward, but I do wish he would pass the torch on to the next generation of leaders. However, the worst thing that could happen to our country is to endure another four years of terrible Trump leadership.
I like how you framed it like, "Yeah, one of those elderly guys wants to end Democracy, but one doesn't- not a clear difference," wow.
To be fair, given his debate he's still going to be a one term president
We don't have to. He can do the right thing and step down and endorse someone else. He needs to be convinced to do so.
Polls are fake news. Biden is going nowhere. He is here to stay.
The DNC bots are doing a good job of downvoting these threads to oblivion but not the comments lmao
Debates have no major bearing on who gets elected , 60% polled said trump won the debate. But trumps favorability only rose .7% while bidens dropped .3%. What will matter is how the independent and undecided voters feel on Nov 5, 2020, like it always does.
Usually yes, but this debate was a car crash for Biden and Trumps' team just have to keep pushing out videos showing Bidens terrible responses. They don't have to do much else to win over any swing voters. This has to be the worst outcome of a TV debate of all time.
My mom (73 and a life long Democrat) is now saying she will not vote for Biden. Edit: Down voting doesn't change anything. This is a serious problem.
It would be impossible to set up a primary and a full presidential campaign in less than 4 months. The logistics, grassroots movement and the name recognition for the leading nominee wouldn't be there for campaign victory. Newsom would be seen as elitist (California) and part of the establishment by the midwest swing voters and progressives Whitmer and Harris would both have trouble getting in as they're women (+ with harris being black, a cop and who prosecuted non violent drug offenses) Buttigieg is gay which means he may have trouble with swing voters Not to mention that any replacement other than Harris would make black and POC voters angry as they're passing over the vice president. If biden needed to be replaced it should've been much earlier so that his replacement could build name recognition and a proper campaign with a few rallies under the candidates belt The only viable replacement would be Harris as she can just take over the biden campaign and she's well known (she's more unpopular than biden though and doesn't have charisma)
Harris has made herself unpopular, her being passed over isn't going to make minorities angry. Minorities aren't simpletons that just look at someone's skin color and decide they're voting for that person, they understand kamala harris is unlikable and very unpopular, and there's good reason for it, exaggerated a bit, but regardless it is. Gavin Newsom is a very good politican and talker, he can win over a lot of people, his main problem is his baggage and the perceptions of being governor of California. Buttegig isn't a very good politician and comes across as disingenuous and weak. It's not because he's gay. This is part of the problem with the democratic party, you guys think it's all about these labels and steer conversations into unimportant bullcrap. Put someone that is remotely likeable and doesn't come off as disingenuous and he or she will completely wipe the floor with trump. We saw this in 2020. The real excitement was worth Sanders, but when he didn't get the nomination, biden still won because he just seemed like a normal politican, and that's all you need to beat trump. If they can get someone exciting then they will win in a landslide. If they keep the guy that looks like he's got less than 5 years of life in him, independents aren't going to vote for him, Republicans aren't going to cross over, and he's going to loose a lot of democrats, especially those currently struggling. So where is the path to victory? Where does he gain votes from? This campaign is embarrassing and is going to hurt the democratic party in the eyes of normal people for a very long time. How are you going to believe the people that were denying what you could see with your own eyes
Anyone who follows trump or is an undecided swing voter right now is clearly stupid, not just minorities. so quite a few of them will be angry at the VICE PRESIDENT being passed over as a replacement. Biden gave quite an energetic speech this morning, and polling suggests that support for him or trump didn't really change because of the debate. Calls for him to resign are premature. We should at least give him a chance to step up and put this behind him. It's early enough in the campaign that if Biden keeps this energy up, voters can dismiss the first debate as a fluke or a bad day.
I don't think regular people are stupid for looking at 2 people, and one can't form a proper full sentence and deciding both choices suck, and staying home. Most people don't know all the garbage that trump has done, and biden does not look physically and mentally fit to lead a country. Stop gaslighting and calling people stupid for what everyone can see plain with their own eyes. Nobody watched that teleprompter campaign speech this morning. What everyone did watch is one of the worst debate performances ever. People have been yelling for months wayyy before this that biden is not fit to go against trump, and should have just stepped down after one term. This isn't premature, it's long overdue
Anyone who thinks Project 2025, abortion bans, or a president who wants to be dictator are in any way acceptable enough to stay home for isn't worthy of respect. that goes for anyone wilfully living under a rock for the last 4 years Maybe it would've been best if biden was a one term president and had groomed a good replacement by now. But rome can't be built in a day, and like it or not we're stuck with biden or Harris as it's too close to the election to pick anyone else. Yes, biden's old, and his performance in the debates was terrible (he looked half dead on stage) but I just don't see another way forward. Anyone who trades democracy for cheaper eggs is not a patriot.
No primary needed… wasn’t necessary the two times the DNC shafted Bernie.
Well, the DNC would select Newsom if given the chance, and it would cause a split with progressive voters with some who may choose to stay home come election night
A lot more progressives are going to stay home with biden on the ticket.
He should be replaced.
Why? Do you not like the rebound the country is currently experiencing? Or do you prefer felons?
I want someone who can lead us for the next 4 years. Last night’s performance showed Joe is near entering a nursing home. Let’s get a candidate who is younger.
this. We are getting closer and closer to world war. Biden cant do this shit anymore - folks need to stop kidding themselves. Its simple: find a better candidate, and let the voters decide. Why are folks here so afraid of that? Biden was never the best candidate to begin with.
I'd like to think Democrats wouldn't replace him with a felon.
The headline does not match the math in the article and the figure include Trump voting republicans who’d only benefit by having Biden replaced: Of Democratic voters, 21% say Biden should "definitely not" be replaced, and 20% say "probably not." When the survey asked respondents to choose between Biden and former President Trump, 45% chose the president and 44% chose the former commander-in-chief. The results were similar to those from a poll following Trump's criminal conviction on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records linked to a $130,000 hush money payment. That shows "President Joe Biden has lost no immediate ground to Trump," per Morning Consult's findings. By the numbers: Still, most respondents—57%, of those who viewed the debate—said Trump outperformed Biden. That includes 19% of Democrats, 60% of Independents and 93% of Republicans.
Leave Biden alone the boomers like him and that’s all that matters since young people don’t want to vote.
No. Just no.
It’s Kamala Harris or no one. The Backbone of the democratic primary voters are black women. Replacing the current VP and next in line constitutionally with a white man or white woman instead of her is just asking the party to splinter. It’s Biden or Harris. That’s it. There’s no other choice. You aren’t replacing the will of millions and millions of primary DNC voters.
Pretty racist assumption that black voters can only vote based on skin color and can intellectually evaluate a candidate. Kamala Harris is very unpopular with the general public and would be a poor replacement choice. The only person worse would be Hillary Clinton. I don't understand why there is this need to prop up these immensely unpopular candidates
And how can anyone else build a viable campaign in less than 4 months? The logistics to even set up a campaign take a lot of money and time. Signs, tv + internet ads, merchandise, donation money, meet and greets, a grassroots movement and campaign rallies are needed to build up a candidate, and I think 4 months is too short of a time to build up a good campaign which can beat trump. Harris can take over the Biden campaign, which is why she's the only viable alternative.
Facts, only she would have COH to do so then, but whichever VP she picked would be divisive and we'd likely be in a bigger mess period.
Because trump is a very poor candidate and doesn't need much to beat him. Signs, ads, and merchandise aren't needed for presidential campaigns. All eyes will be on that person, this isn't some senate or congressional race. They need some guys campaign rallies and to lay out a clear vision. This can be done. 4 months is plenty of time to do some rallies and lay out your plan, maybe a debate with trump if he would accept it. I doubt he would though, there's a reason he accepted 1 with biden but 0 with his republican competition
We can't underestimate trump. He's a stupid liar who doesn't have much support outside of his own base, but we can't dismiss the advantages biden has. He's the incumbent, well known, and he appeals to all sides of the political spectrum. Thinking that Trump is easy to beat is the kind of hubris the democrats had, which allowed trump to win in 2016. it would be less risky to stay the course and have biden step up and give the energy and vigor that voters expect from a leader rather than make a risky bet on another candidate so close to the election
He's in fact objectively stronger than in either 2016, or 2020, right now mainly because while Trump has not gained any real support overall- he's succeeded very well in breaking down his opposition inch by inch into divisions, divide and conquer being his strategy, while his cult is diehard for him no matter what. Trump has never had better polling in H2Hs than in this cycle in 2024, against any Dem with a name, in fact I think it's understated that he's not weak at all anymore vs a generic R- arguably, the opposite.
Biden had abysmal approval ratings before the debate. There's no undoing the other night, he's not getting younger. If he stays, then this is over, trump wins. Biden lost all the normal people in that debate. All he can hope for is trump does something to loose an equal amount
It's a fact, not an opinion: it's going to be Harris if it's not him, is where we're at.
To be fair, something like 55% wanted him replaced before the debate.
Serious question, why is Kamala the VP being totally passed over?
She’s extremely unpopular.
She doesn't connect with anyone except young women and minorities. And she's too "West coast". Not enough.
Why then isn't Sanders considered next? he got 2nd in the last 2 primaries instead of just being handpicked by delegates. Nobody doubts he could dominate Trump in a debate. Motivates the group of voters whose turnout fluctuates the most. Do people really think older Democrats would leave the party and go back to Trump after all he has done? I don't. Seems like only upside
>Minorities >Young women So the base of the party then, got it, really going to win an election without those groups-- not.
My choice for VP was Val Demings from FL.
This is what I thought. She should be a no brainer to run against Trump.
It's not a no brainer because she, like most other Dems, has problems with white voters as well but she's the VP and obv. Biden's heir apparent as things stand. If it's not him, then it'll be her and whatever DNC establishment candidate they deem appealing-- at this point in time.
Kamala is the only person that wants to see herself become president…
Lolz howabout Kamala Harris with Biden as VP?
Pritzker would be great. There needs to be a good messanger with energy.
“You don’t change horses midstream”
If the horse starts shitting blood and collapsed, I'm changing fucking horses.
Replacing Biden with an 11th hour stalking horse candidate at the convention should be infuriating to card-carrying regular Democratic voters. One of the biggest arguments this election has been about “defending democracy.” And you have a party that stopped a primary before it could begin, threatened to blackball any candidate who challenged Biden in a primary, and who would then be willing to take the matter out of the hands of their own voters in a back room convention deal. I can’t think of a more undemocratic way of “defending democracy.” The party bosses and handlers KNEW this was a problem 2 years ago. They KNEW it. The Democratic base has every right to be furious. And they should be.
Replace Biden if you want my vote.
So you’d rather see Trump win than Biden?
he wasn't going to vote for a dem anyway, he is just bullshitting for karma
Except it always costs karma around here to be critical of Biden.
If I wanted Trump to win, I'd be happy with Biden on the ticket.
People on here can try and bully you into voting for biden all they want, but what you're saying is what a lot of Americans are saying after the debate that aren't on the Maga boat. The anti trump argument can only go so far. This is crazy, everyone is in such a fantasy world.
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Not realistically, no.
60% is way too low.
I'm guessing most of those are Republicans.
47% of Democrats polled said he should be replaced. A plurality polled also support Biden over Trump.
so 53% of Democrats don't want that?
If you count people who are undecided on it, yeah.
Nope. I think it’s anyone with functioning eyes and ears that watched last night.