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The very important asterisk is that this is Harris before having the spotlight back on her. People like Kamala much more on paper than in reality as we’ve seen in her 2020 campaign and throughout the Biden presidency. When the campaigning and negative ads start, her numbers would drop.
all they would have to do is bring up her record on prosecuting and her numbers would drop.
I mean who wants to a president who would keep you in jail for weed offences.
> all they would have to do is bring up her record on prosecuting and her numbers would drop.
Again no it wouldn't. Tough on crime is a massive sell in the general election.
We're not talking about the Dem primary anymore, this is the general election.
Yeah, in 2024 being a top cop is a boon among many of the same democrats who were pretending to have ironclad BLM commitments in 2024. It’s kind of pathetic but it’s reality.
Sure Harris isn't gonna lose older voters against Trump over that. In fact older voters are already mostly locked in. It is younger voters whose turnout fluctuates. And she could lose some of them especially if they feel the DNC let a 16th place primary candidate whose vice presidency has been very quiet leapfrog over better candidates that appeal to them more.
if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns.
>if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns.
Is this a coy plea for Bernie? Picking someone older than Biden who had a heart attack on the last campaign trail is a bad idea.
Bernie won in a landslide in the state he had a heart attack in. Fetterman did very well after a stroke. What matters more is mental health. being attacked for age didn't hurt Reagan because he easily dismissed those concerns. Biden may not be able to do so as the concerns are far more valid
Replacing Biden with someone older is not going to work in the current climate. That's before anyone starts hammering home Bernie's "poor physical health." It doesn't matter that Bernie is probably healthier than Trump, that old heart attack will be used against him. and that's just for Democrats who like him!
Everyone else will be turned off by him being a "self proclaimed socialist." It doesn't matter what he actually said or what socialist means, it's a a dirty word to a lot of the US.
Bernie has given the other side too much ammo and most people aren't critical thinkers, so they believe it.
there is just no evidence that older Dem voters are gonna sit home because Fox News lies about the cost of public Healthcare.
there is plenty of evidence that younger voters will stay at home if you go with Kamala
None of what you mentioned, Fox News lies about public healthcare costs, older Dem voters, or Kamala Harris, are part of my arguments why Bernie is a bad choice.
She was voted to be the one to replace Joe Biden by 81.2 million people.
Anyone else taking this from her could be viewed as leap frogging her.
Especially by black voters. Black women voters in particular.
> And she could lose some of them especially if they feel the DNC let a 16th place primary candidate whose vice presidency has been very quiet leapfrog over better candidates that appeal to them more.
>if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns.
If Biden steps aside at this point the natural first choice is the VP. The VP role literally only has two jobs. Breaking ties in the Senate and to be there as the replacement for the president. It would have been nice if Biden stepped aside late last year before the primary season but going with the VP at this point is not leapfrogging anyone.
The DNC selecting anyone else in a back room deal would be leapfrogging the VP. Leapfrogging a black VP to pick a white candidate would be a PR/messaging nightmare.
>Leapfrogging a black VP to pick a white candidate would be a PR/messaging nightmare.
What is actually a bigger nightmare for Democrats? Picking someone who has a history of cratering support with the voters whose turnout fluctuates the most or picking someone who has gotten 2nd in the last 2 real primaries?
>Picking someone who has a history of cratering support with the voters
This could have been said about Biden pre-2020 considering he threw his hat in the ring multiple times before then.
>Or picking someone who has gotten 2nd in the last 2 real primaries?
Bernie's great but the time has passed for him to be an option.
Picking an 82 year to replace an 81 year old who is suffering an age related mental decline would be a horrible call and definitely worse than going with the VP.
If Biden stepped aside they need someone who is at least under 70.
>ould have been said about Biden pre-2020 considering he threw his aht in the ring multiple times before then
The 2024 election will likely be a little more similar to 2016. The youth have a harder time turning out for an incumbent Dem president than to stop an active Republican president. Especially with inflation.
It's not hard to see how the youth need a little more pep in their step. But can Kamala do that or will she end up even worse than Biden? Biden had strong ties to a still very popular Obama. Kamala has strong ties to someone who the youth now are heavily disillusioned by.
Sure we've got some things going for us we didn't in 2016 so you could be correct. But I can't imagine anyone arguing in good faith that Sanders wouldn't prove more resilient with young voters. The only real question is if older voters would actually sit out and I just don't see a compelling argument for that.
Even in 2020 I might agree with you. But after Roe and Jan 6 i just don't think you'll talk those older voters into sitting home. Sanders also has a stronger Healthcare reform argument given lowering Healthcare inflation would actually allow the Fed to lower rates. While throughout the Obama administration and 2020 voters couldn't even fathom what high inflation would do to interest rates
are you trying to nominate Bernie or Warren? Cause the age factor still applies there. Dunno who else would be palatable and could possibly win. Plus Harris is +8 vs Biden in terms of younger voters according to that poll
I think standing by and let Israel destroy medical facilities, sanitary infrastructure, slow build a famine situation is unconscionable act of cowardice. But enough Americans don't see a problem with it. The world doesn't care what I think. Nor do the the independents about my idea of law and order.
>I think standing by and let Israel destroy medical facilities, sanitary infrastructure, slow build a famine situation is unconscionable act of cowardice.
I think the same of kidnapping women, have the hostages been returned yet?
> If Hamas doesn't return the hostages should Israel continue to kill tens of thousands more?
yes, they should do everything in their power to get back their citizens.
Lol. And you were indignant about keeping prisoners pass their sentences. Sounds like Harris isn't going to be law and order enough for you.
Edit: Reply and then blocked me so I couldn't see your response. That's grade A weaseling.
This is why Democrats shoot themselves in the foot ALOT. Republicans will get behind ONE guy (literally no matter what we've seen it) and the Democrats can't get behind anyone. One issue they don't like about a candidate, they get written off complete while Republicans have chose to stand by Trump through every single thing...one after the other including now becoming King.
No matter who Demcrats choose. they will eat each other apart because it's not PeRfEcT! All I hear is people scrambling for other candidates but everyone is up in fucking arms about every single choice...Republicans know this too, just Democrats haven't learned from 2016 why Trump came into power in the first place when Clinton was spelling it out loud to everyone.
Look at this very thread as prime example
* Independent Here
If we are changing candidates why not get one that's *better*? This isn't about a "perfect candidate" it's about one that people actually want to vote for. Biden is the "he's not trump" candidate already, and that's all Harris has going for her too.
I agree with you. My point is that every candidate is going to have some sort of flaw. People need to stop focusing on just flaws. Look at the post above mine. Granted some flaws are worse than others, but Harris being a former DA is not a fatal flaw and may even attract the law and order centrists. A few polls are starting to come out showing Harris competitive with Trump.
This was why I didn’t support her for President and was honestly disappointed Biden chose her for Veep. That being said she’s probably the best option right now, she could potentially add a Josh Shapiro as VP and get a big boost in PA.
I've always felt being VP has held Harris back. If she was the one with the power I think she'd be more forceful. Presidential immunity for official acts? She'd be much more likely to test it than Biden.
Off the top of my head, they’d go after her for her prosecution record, the accusation of her fucking the mayor to get her position as SF DA, and her record on persecuting minorities. I have no idea what independents would think of that, but if that’s the direction we go I hope they have thought that through.
This election will be won with women. If Kamala can give an amazing speech at the DNC and really be profound on the campaign trail, she’s likely to recapture a lot of the voters who have strayed.
There are a lot of “I hope it’s not Kamala,” people out there, but when push comes to shove they got a young woman who isn’t Trump.
>This election will be won with women.
People hate when you try to play identity politics, but honestly, as strong as people have been showing up to support abortion rights in our post roe world, having Harris up front hammering abortion and woman's rights might be our best bet. I have no problem saying this and supporting it even as someone that doesn't like Kamala.
Ideally pick a younger progressive as vp and try to make some genuine outreaches to that side of the party, and hopefully helps keep everyone motivated to show up and vote from both sides of the party.
Too polarizing. She went too hard off the bat and fought too hard against established Dems like Pelosi. I think she realized there was a lot of wisdom there and has backed off. She admitted her Green New Deal = banning cow farts was her fault.
She'll be ready in 8-10 years.
It’ll come down to her drawing in non-political first time or irregular voters versus independent voters pearl clutching and running back to republican party. If she can have a 2004 Obama-esque DNC speech that highlights unity, democracy and hope, she’ll recapture the moment and make this her year. She’ll get the Times Obama cover treatment and reshape the trajectory of this race.
Or let’s be realistic. She’ll give a Kamala speech. Good but not exhilarating. She’ll bring together the democratic party but stop there. Shes not a once in a generation orator and there’s been no evidence that she can give amazing speeches that meet the moment.
For the sake of our democracy, I hope it’s the former and not the latter. Maybe Kamala doesn’t give great speeches all the time but hopefully because of the falling sky moment, she can muster a speech for the ages. Hopefully the White House experience has transformed Kamala into a stronger, more seasoned candidate.
No one is concerned with the mental capabilities of a 59 year old showing no signs of decay. Harris's problem is she just isn't likeable and comes across as phony.
Phony? sure. Unlikeable? Not at all! When she isn’t trying to be all “woman of destiny” she can be fucking hilarious. Honestly, xan-ed out wine mom would be a major improvement over senile geezers.
There's a video of an interview with I don't remember who where during a commercial break or when they were prepping her she was talking about how she cooks a turkey. Or was it a chicken? The details don't matter. She was hilarious.
It is also poor politics to think women aren't gonna turn out unless they have a female president. Older women are reliable voters.
it is the young of both genders that will lose this election for Democrats by staying home. Harris in the 2020 primary saw her numbers rapidly erode in a matter of weeks. Her polling now is not what it will be after 3 months as the figurehead.
Democrats have a tested candidate that has been part of the national discussion since 2016 whose favorables with independents and young people has remained top of the class:
[https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3617170-sanders-has-highest-favorability-among-possible-2024-contenders-poll/](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3617170-sanders-has-highest-favorability-among-possible-2024-contenders-poll/)
As a progressive that has voted for bernie in the previous primaries, replacing biden with someone that will be 83 by the time he takes office is not the right move. I would have loved to have president sanders, but that opportunity has passed.
Biden had signs of dementia 4 years ago but nobody cared then. I'll take a healthy old candidate that is popular with the voters whose turnout fluctuates the most over someone who has proven that at the slightest bit of negative ad spend their numbers crater
She's not a good politician and she got pretty thoroughly stomped in the selection process in 2019. Her record as a prosecutor in San Francisco is a negative and the only press I've heard from her since the election are reports on the levels of dysfunction in her office.
So her or Hillary is the obvious choice for the DNC to replace Biden with.
>Her record as a prosecutor in San Francisco is a negative
Having been a prosecutor is a negative for a Democratic primary, but would it be such a negative in a general election against Trump?
As a Democrat the GOP is naturally going to try to claim she isn't tough on crime, but the race would be a prosecutor against a convicted felon.
I don't her history as prosecutor would scare away any left wing voters that voted for Biden last time since they were able to get over the 1994 Crime Bill that Biden drafted the Senate version of.
I'd say the GOP would figure out a way to either negate it or turn it into a negative. Either she'll be a hypocrite because her prosecutor record won't jive with stump speeches or she'll be a miserable failure because liberal San Francisco is bad and it's her fault.
I'd be more concerned about depressing Democratic turnout.
Fine go with Harris but she better learn how to become a firebrand and learn to fight instead of panicking about public perception if she is not civil. Now is not the time for civility politics its time for boldness and taking risk.
Do we really want a conservative-lite prosecutor with a sketchy history *with* another conservative-lite that doesn't believe in single payer Healthcare and many other basic things democrats like?
I'm so fucking tired of our options being "they're not trump" while they're actually more conservative than most of the democratic party would like to go.
>Do we really want a conservative-lite prosecutor with a sketchy history
Being a former prosecutor is a lot different in the general where Dems are criticized for being too light on crime.
>with another conservative-lite that doesn't believe in single payer Healthcare
The VP doesn't get to set policy. If the president supports single payer then it's the administration's stance. If the president doesn't then that's the administration's stance.
The President will set the administration's agenda. The VP's only actual roles are breaking ties in the Senate and being prepared if the President needs to be replaced. Outside of those official tasks they just fill an outreach or attack dog role.
A week ago I would have said that Harris is a non-starter.
I don't think that's true anymore. I would prefer Whitmer, but Harris gets the Biden war chest. And you can't bypass Harris without alienating a lot of the Democratic base.
It gets really messy with anyone but Harris, because you can't just transfer it to another candidate.
If it goes to the DNC or a PAC, they're allowed to work on behalf of a candidate, but they're not allowed to directly coordinate with the campaign.
I feel like Harris is under-estimated, and not sure why reddit is quite so hard on her. Not perfect, but Biden was far from perfect in the first place.
Though I do think Whitmer would have a much easier time winning and do much better in swing states.
If one of Newsome's problems is being from California as some are saying, well that is an issue for Harris also.
Because Harris polls poorly. Almost as bad as Biden. Whitmer and Mayor Pete are polling the best.
https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
She polls awful, she gives awful peaches and talks weird, and she has a horrible career record of doing sketchy and morally wrong things to help the police and fuck people over.
If you really don't understand why people don't like her then you just haven't learned enough about her.
The war chest is pointless. Negative ads will not hurt Trump. Positive ads will not help Harris. Ignore the money and find someone people will want to root for.
Right because sexual predators with a well documented history of also being a lying scam artist being favored to win is a textbook example of "simply how presidential elections go"
Call me crazy, but id entertain the idea of a unity ticket. Bring on a common sense moderate Republican (don’t laugh) to pair up with the Dem. President candidate. Campaign on unity and coming together to solve problems. The Republican Party gets a new pillar of leadership to help pry it away from MAGA.
Please don't. She is intelligent and accomplished, but with zero relatability or likeability and is polling nearly as bad as Biden. This is a surefire way to lose the election. The only difference is that instead of a landslide, we'll lose by less.
I think my labradoodle would poll better than Biden right now. That doesn’t mean shit.
If Kamala Harris was such a great candidate, then people wouldn’t be SO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT BIDENS AGE.
They so would just be like cool, she can take over when the worst happens.
But that’s not the general vibe out there. There are a LOT of people that don’t want to see her president. Including people in her own party, or they wouldn’t be floating new names.
It's not about trusting the media or anyone else. It's about the fact that after the debate, having Biden at the top of the ticket means Dems will lose up and down the ballot.
So they have to try something different. They could very well still lose with Harris at the top of the ticket, but it's better than simply accepting defeat 4 months out from the election.
they should have tried something different 4 years ago, they didn't.
so instead of a man well past his prime, you choose the person who can easily be called out for her keeping prisoners locked up past the end of their sentences and even innocent people locked up?
thats who you think to push instead?
and you trust a CNN poll claiming she will beat trump?
the best way to beat trump is not run an entrenched democrat, you need your own trump, and you don't have one.
They are reporters. They report. They are not the one telling you Biden if fine. They are telling you that democrats are telling you Biden is fine. They have also been complaining non stop that they have no access to him. So much so that NYT made a public statement and led to the WH shutting them out.
Will literally vote for anyone or anyTHING against Trump but I do find it hard to imagine Harris even having a successful phone call with Putin, let alone anything in person
Kamala is one of the worst politicians I’ve ever seen. Her being chosen as VP after submitting a remarkably terrible presidential campaign where she couldn’t even make it to Iowa epitomizes failing upward. She has no strong convictions, evidenced by her endless flip-flopping on virtually every policy issue since becoming a senator in 2016. And she is such a bad public speaker that the defining theme of her as VP is awkward word salad.
And yet, she’s a marginally better candidate than Biden at this point. Democrat elites have backed themselves into an impossible corner by playing identity politics in choosing Kamala and then effectively closing the primary off from any challengers to Biden running again.
Neither one can beat Trump, though Kamala at least has a chance at not suffering one of the biggest blowouts in history (which is Biden’s certain fate).
I honestly believe Biden will step down. The calls are getting louder. There's no way around it. It will be Kamala 100%.
She needs to pick a VP who will appeal to undecided voters and who's the most qualified to take over if something happens to her. I'm getting excited to see new life in the Democratic party!
Let's Go!!! 🌊
Here's the best poll you'll ever get to see, the internal campaign poll:
https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
Check out page 13.
The head to head there says clearly Whitmer is the best candidate in a head to head in the swing states.
If Whitmer can win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and NE-2, that's ALL I need.
To tell you the truth I'm confident that Biden will win MI as well. The GOP here has been a trainwreck even by GOP standards. If you're not familiar with it look into Ottawa Impact and you will see the great job the MAGA county commission has done in one of the most populated counties that Trump needs to dominate to win the state. That doesn't even go into the drama the ex GOP chair is causing.
Yes, Whitmer is my preference. A lot of people have floated Whitmer/Shapiro to get that MI/PA combo. I have no problem with Buttigieg but I was surprised that poll said he would do that well, being part of the current admin.
That document quite literally says that every alternative candidate polls better than Biden:
>All alternative candidates poll ahead of Biden in every battleground state.
I am going by the puck-reported leak and the most recent data on 538. On 538 Whitmer and Booker are at Trump+2 whereas Biden, Harris and others are +3 or more.
In the Puck internal poll there are models showing that Whitmer and Buttigieg would win, with Biden, Harris and Newsom losing.
The poll you've linked just shows an image to me, I don't see an article. Maybe it's my network being blocked.
Additionally there is an anti-incumbency thing going on as people blame Biden's admin for inflation- AND depending how bad Biden's state of mind is, she might have to deal with a lot of issues with regards to concealing it from the public.
I agree that she would do better than Biden, but the linked image says former dem rep. says Kamala should be the nominee. I frankly don't trust elder or former dems to make these decisions, because their lack of common sense is what got us into this situation. Not to mention Biden handing it off to her would be particularly undemocratic, no one voted for her to be president, only to take over if Biden died, and frankly the last primary was not real. There should at least be an open convention so people can become acquainted with those running, and we can poll it. Then if Kamala runs against Whitmer and Buttigieg and becomes the most popular, absolutely she is the right choice.
It's hard for me to tell what this data is, because the link is just goes to a photo when I click it. What I saw in the other Puck leaked poll showed Whitmer doing better with swing states.
If we are going to go through the chaos of replacing Biden we need to do it the right way. We should have an open convention so people can see the process, and they can poll more as people get acquainted with the candidates. This idea that we can just have Biden step aside and quietly continue with Harris is BS to me because it's going to be a huge deal regardless. So we should do it the most democratic way possible, and select who is best, even if it is slightly messier. If you check that internal poll leaked Puck, the models show that Harris would do better but lose, where as Whitmer and Buttigieg would win.
Plus you could easily put a Governor on the ticket. I'm an unaffiliated, but pissed I have to run for a convicted lying sack of shit that sucks Putin's dick or a mummified corpse of a senator from the 80's. Of course I would vote for the corpse over the "Great Value" Nazi, but it shouldn't be this kind of choice in a real Democratic Republic. Its a symbol of the end to me for the US.
Harris has a fighting chance, and she preferable to Biden, I would ever argue she’s a little underrated. However, the correct play is an open convention, if she comes out of that as the nominee that is one thing but if the party just tried to switch her and Biden like we won’t notice it will go poorly
She's better than the product that was on display at the debated. Any semi-competent younger candidate is better than Biden. This is what voters have asked for the last 4 years.
This is why Democrats shoot themselves in the foot ALOT. Republicans will get behind ONE guy (literally no matter what we've seen it) and the Democrats can't get behind anyone. One issue they don't like about a candidate, they get written off complete while Republicans have chose to stand by Trump through every single thing...one after the other including now becoming King. Even before the debate last week, I've seen plenty of liberal voters say they won't vote for Biden just because of Palestine while one party is talking about fascism out in the open.
No matter who Democrats choose. they will eat each other apart because it's not PeRfEcT! All I hear is people scrambling for other candidates but everyone is up in fucking arms about every single choice...Republicans know this too, just Democrats haven't learned from 2016 why Trump came into power in the first place when Clinton was spelling it out loud to everyone.
Look at this very thread as prime example
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Man CNN really is going in for maximum drama for ratings.
2 months from now "Trump is better for the country than a divisive democrat, please ignore our ratings bonanza".
They're just reporting on what's happening. As much as you think they control the narrative, they're just asking the questions that viewers want answered. There's no doubt that Biden will step aside and we're just watching history unfold.
I wouldn't say there's no doubt, it's possible he tries to solider on. But the calls for him to let someone else run are getting louder, and they're starting to come from within his own party.
She has the personality of a 2x4.
Abandoning Biden for Harris is the classic short-sighted oblivious bullshit the DNC has been pulling since 2016.
The need to run Newsom or Butigieg.
All are fine with me, but Whitmer would have this locked up. Imagine being able to attack Donald Trump from the perspective of being the target of one his posse’s failed attempts to actually kidnap and torture an opposing politician.
Certain corners of the party will accuse everyone else of being racist for not wanting to anoint Kamala. That’s a landmine that could further destroy the Dem coalition before November.
This is what the party gets for choosing a VP based purely on identity as opposed to any meaningful political acumen or talent.
>Abandoning Biden for Harris is the classic short-sighted oblivious bullshit the DNC has been pulling since 2016.
Well, so is sticking with a candidate that their voters don't want.
Remember that in 2016, Sanders beat out Clinton with pledged delegates (i.e. delegates pledged through primaries and caucuses) and it was only because super-delegates were allowed to vote in the first round that she beat him out.
> Remember that in 2016, Sanders beat out Clinton with pledged delegates (i.e. delegates pledged through primaries and caucuses) and it was only because super-delegates were allowed to vote in the first round that she beat him out.
Hillary had 2205 pledged delegates. Bernie had 1846 pledged delegates. Hillary had almost 400 more pledged delegates than Bernie not even counting superdelegates. Which isn't surprising as she won 11 more contests than Bernie and she won 9 out of the top ten largest states (and 15 out of the top 20). She also had 16,917,853 popular vote compared to Bernie's 13,210,550.
Yes for Newsom.
He's got some baggage but there's a reason why he won the recall hands down.
Harris is a good VP for him. She was a prosecutor.
Plus they're both Californians which idk I think is good. I'd rather every state turn into California than New Russia.
Butigieg is a no from me. The Boeing situation.
Harris has some of the same issues at Clinton! They just aren’t likable and has nothing to do with what their job performance would be as POTUS!
I didn’t bode well for Harris last time so this time would be reflective of that scenario!
If Biden steps down I would only vote for Gretchen Whitmer. Harris, Newsom, whoever else wouldn't win. Josh Shapiro is cool and handsome but Whitmer is far more capable and proven so.
She's starting at a lower recognition point than most of the other names but she's what we'd call a high-upside candidate. On a first impressions level she's on the surface quite likeable, speaks well, isn't a pushover and isn't too politically extreme. She seems to have more charm than Harris and is more down to earth and less "slick" than Newsom. The potential for higher popularity is there but you don't know for sure until you put her out there, that's the main risk.
People don't know her yet. She's closest to Trump out of everyone. I want to be honest. I don't think I'm for this yet. But if polls don't improve quickly I'm throwing my hat in the ring for Whitmer and her chosen VP.
It doesn't work that way. The campaign alone might be enough to put her in a dark place. Unlike Hillary she never wanted to be in politics and doesn't handle it well.
Honestly I think it's just too late. Every poll shows Trump is ahead of dems.
I feel like 2020 a lot of promises were made to voters, especially by progressives, and people do not feel the results living up to the promises.
At this point nobody is beating Trump but Biden. Let’s not forget the only one to beat him so far. The only way I want Biden stepping down is if Trump also steps down and that’s not happening so let’s go Joe!
None of the available data supports that position. Biden was losing in the critical states before he imploded on television. It’s going to get worse for him, not better.
Anyone still willing to vote Biden at this point is doing so to try and keep the orange anus out of office. This group of people will be happy to support whoever the Democratic nominee is, but that isn’t enough. Swapping in a fresh, younger fighter who has the mental and physical
stamina to campaign like the fate of the world depends on it is the only option at earning back support from the swing voters in the 6-7 states that get to decide the election.
“Available data” hahaha please stop with this shit. None of this data can tell you anything real. It’s all bad data. And just to play your game up until the debate Joe was leading in the polls. Ironic that he’s the one being asked to be replaced in this situation especially when you realize he WON the debate if you listen to the content. Hell, Trump didn’t even answer a question.
Bringing in a new candidate (even Kamala) would be an instant death sentence and guarantee victory for Trump. Last I checked the only person to beat him so far is Biden.
The ONLY way we should accept Biden stepping down is if the Orange Clown does as well. That’s it!
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The very important asterisk is that this is Harris before having the spotlight back on her. People like Kamala much more on paper than in reality as we’ve seen in her 2020 campaign and throughout the Biden presidency. When the campaigning and negative ads start, her numbers would drop.
all they would have to do is bring up her record on prosecuting and her numbers would drop. I mean who wants to a president who would keep you in jail for weed offences.
> all they would have to do is bring up her record on prosecuting and her numbers would drop. Again no it wouldn't. Tough on crime is a massive sell in the general election. We're not talking about the Dem primary anymore, this is the general election.
Yeah, in 2024 being a top cop is a boon among many of the same democrats who were pretending to have ironclad BLM commitments in 2024. It’s kind of pathetic but it’s reality.
Sure Harris isn't gonna lose older voters against Trump over that. In fact older voters are already mostly locked in. It is younger voters whose turnout fluctuates. And she could lose some of them especially if they feel the DNC let a 16th place primary candidate whose vice presidency has been very quiet leapfrog over better candidates that appeal to them more. if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns.
>if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns. Is this a coy plea for Bernie? Picking someone older than Biden who had a heart attack on the last campaign trail is a bad idea.
This would be peak DNC. Biden is too old and trump is too old therefore we nominate Bernie
I thought DNC was conspiring against Bernie and all the progressives. I can’t keep up with their evil/incompetent/corrupt plans.
Bernie won in a landslide in the state he had a heart attack in. Fetterman did very well after a stroke. What matters more is mental health. being attacked for age didn't hurt Reagan because he easily dismissed those concerns. Biden may not be able to do so as the concerns are far more valid
Replacing Biden with someone older is not going to work in the current climate. That's before anyone starts hammering home Bernie's "poor physical health." It doesn't matter that Bernie is probably healthier than Trump, that old heart attack will be used against him. and that's just for Democrats who like him! Everyone else will be turned off by him being a "self proclaimed socialist." It doesn't matter what he actually said or what socialist means, it's a a dirty word to a lot of the US. Bernie has given the other side too much ammo and most people aren't critical thinkers, so they believe it.
there is just no evidence that older Dem voters are gonna sit home because Fox News lies about the cost of public Healthcare. there is plenty of evidence that younger voters will stay at home if you go with Kamala
None of what you mentioned, Fox News lies about public healthcare costs, older Dem voters, or Kamala Harris, are part of my arguments why Bernie is a bad choice.
fetterman turned into a republican zionist post stroke
She was voted to be the one to replace Joe Biden by 81.2 million people. Anyone else taking this from her could be viewed as leap frogging her. Especially by black voters. Black women voters in particular.
> And she could lose some of them especially if they feel the DNC let a 16th place primary candidate whose vice presidency has been very quiet leapfrog over better candidates that appeal to them more. >if the DNC went with somebody popular with younger voters who did well in the last 2 primaries it would assuage their concerns. If Biden steps aside at this point the natural first choice is the VP. The VP role literally only has two jobs. Breaking ties in the Senate and to be there as the replacement for the president. It would have been nice if Biden stepped aside late last year before the primary season but going with the VP at this point is not leapfrogging anyone. The DNC selecting anyone else in a back room deal would be leapfrogging the VP. Leapfrogging a black VP to pick a white candidate would be a PR/messaging nightmare.
>Leapfrogging a black VP to pick a white candidate would be a PR/messaging nightmare. What is actually a bigger nightmare for Democrats? Picking someone who has a history of cratering support with the voters whose turnout fluctuates the most or picking someone who has gotten 2nd in the last 2 real primaries?
>Picking someone who has a history of cratering support with the voters This could have been said about Biden pre-2020 considering he threw his hat in the ring multiple times before then. >Or picking someone who has gotten 2nd in the last 2 real primaries? Bernie's great but the time has passed for him to be an option. Picking an 82 year to replace an 81 year old who is suffering an age related mental decline would be a horrible call and definitely worse than going with the VP. If Biden stepped aside they need someone who is at least under 70.
>ould have been said about Biden pre-2020 considering he threw his aht in the ring multiple times before then The 2024 election will likely be a little more similar to 2016. The youth have a harder time turning out for an incumbent Dem president than to stop an active Republican president. Especially with inflation. It's not hard to see how the youth need a little more pep in their step. But can Kamala do that or will she end up even worse than Biden? Biden had strong ties to a still very popular Obama. Kamala has strong ties to someone who the youth now are heavily disillusioned by. Sure we've got some things going for us we didn't in 2016 so you could be correct. But I can't imagine anyone arguing in good faith that Sanders wouldn't prove more resilient with young voters. The only real question is if older voters would actually sit out and I just don't see a compelling argument for that. Even in 2020 I might agree with you. But after Roe and Jan 6 i just don't think you'll talk those older voters into sitting home. Sanders also has a stronger Healthcare reform argument given lowering Healthcare inflation would actually allow the Fed to lower rates. While throughout the Obama administration and 2020 voters couldn't even fathom what high inflation would do to interest rates
are you trying to nominate Bernie or Warren? Cause the age factor still applies there. Dunno who else would be palatable and could possibly win. Plus Harris is +8 vs Biden in terms of younger voters according to that poll
Whitmer.
yeah Whitmer is a good choice to win the midwest, just not sure how she energizes youth vote though.
Independents like the law and order type.
so you think keeping prisoners past the end of their sentence is Law and Order and not corrupt?
I think standing by and let Israel destroy medical facilities, sanitary infrastructure, slow build a famine situation is unconscionable act of cowardice. But enough Americans don't see a problem with it. The world doesn't care what I think. Nor do the the independents about my idea of law and order.
>I think standing by and let Israel destroy medical facilities, sanitary infrastructure, slow build a famine situation is unconscionable act of cowardice. I think the same of kidnapping women, have the hostages been returned yet?
Is Biden supporting Hamas too? If Hamas doesn't return the hostages should Israel continue to kill tens of thousands more?
> If Hamas doesn't return the hostages should Israel continue to kill tens of thousands more? yes, they should do everything in their power to get back their citizens.
Lol. And you were indignant about keeping prisoners pass their sentences. Sounds like Harris isn't going to be law and order enough for you. Edit: Reply and then blocked me so I couldn't see your response. That's grade A weaseling.
>And you were indignant about keeping prisoners pass their sentences. kinda like keeping hostages.
Just stop. Now is not the time for the perfect candidate. Biden is dead in the water. He’s losing New Jersey for God ‘s sake. It’s time to move on.
This is why Democrats shoot themselves in the foot ALOT. Republicans will get behind ONE guy (literally no matter what we've seen it) and the Democrats can't get behind anyone. One issue they don't like about a candidate, they get written off complete while Republicans have chose to stand by Trump through every single thing...one after the other including now becoming King. No matter who Demcrats choose. they will eat each other apart because it's not PeRfEcT! All I hear is people scrambling for other candidates but everyone is up in fucking arms about every single choice...Republicans know this too, just Democrats haven't learned from 2016 why Trump came into power in the first place when Clinton was spelling it out loud to everyone. Look at this very thread as prime example * Independent Here
If we are changing candidates why not get one that's *better*? This isn't about a "perfect candidate" it's about one that people actually want to vote for. Biden is the "he's not trump" candidate already, and that's all Harris has going for her too.
I agree with you. My point is that every candidate is going to have some sort of flaw. People need to stop focusing on just flaws. Look at the post above mine. Granted some flaws are worse than others, but Harris being a former DA is not a fatal flaw and may even attract the law and order centrists. A few polls are starting to come out showing Harris competitive with Trump.
Well, the Democrats would apparently be the new party of Law and Order since we’re not the party of a convicted felon.
yeah keeping people in jail past the end of their sentences is very Law and Order.
Better than Donald Trump who wants to see them executed for drug offenses.
Sorry, but anything pro cop wins elections. I know that's not what your leftist bubble thinks, but its true.
This was why I didn’t support her for President and was honestly disappointed Biden chose her for Veep. That being said she’s probably the best option right now, she could potentially add a Josh Shapiro as VP and get a big boost in PA.
Actually wouldn’t a race between a prosecutor and a convicted felon be pretty neat? Just my opinion
I've always felt being VP has held Harris back. If she was the one with the power I think she'd be more forceful. Presidential immunity for official acts? She'd be much more likely to test it than Biden.
Off the top of my head, they’d go after her for her prosecution record, the accusation of her fucking the mayor to get her position as SF DA, and her record on persecuting minorities. I have no idea what independents would think of that, but if that’s the direction we go I hope they have thought that through.
This election will be won with women. If Kamala can give an amazing speech at the DNC and really be profound on the campaign trail, she’s likely to recapture a lot of the voters who have strayed. There are a lot of “I hope it’s not Kamala,” people out there, but when push comes to shove they got a young woman who isn’t Trump.
>This election will be won with women. People hate when you try to play identity politics, but honestly, as strong as people have been showing up to support abortion rights in our post roe world, having Harris up front hammering abortion and woman's rights might be our best bet. I have no problem saying this and supporting it even as someone that doesn't like Kamala. Ideally pick a younger progressive as vp and try to make some genuine outreaches to that side of the party, and hopefully helps keep everyone motivated to show up and vote from both sides of the party.
AOC maybe?
Too polarizing. She went too hard off the bat and fought too hard against established Dems like Pelosi. I think she realized there was a lot of wisdom there and has backed off. She admitted her Green New Deal = banning cow farts was her fault. She'll be ready in 8-10 years.
It’ll come down to her drawing in non-political first time or irregular voters versus independent voters pearl clutching and running back to republican party. If she can have a 2004 Obama-esque DNC speech that highlights unity, democracy and hope, she’ll recapture the moment and make this her year. She’ll get the Times Obama cover treatment and reshape the trajectory of this race. Or let’s be realistic. She’ll give a Kamala speech. Good but not exhilarating. She’ll bring together the democratic party but stop there. Shes not a once in a generation orator and there’s been no evidence that she can give amazing speeches that meet the moment. For the sake of our democracy, I hope it’s the former and not the latter. Maybe Kamala doesn’t give great speeches all the time but hopefully because of the falling sky moment, she can muster a speech for the ages. Hopefully the White House experience has transformed Kamala into a stronger, more seasoned candidate.
Might be copium, but I think she’s far more proficient as a speaker now. She gave some fiery speeches about abortion lately.
she has her problems. she has been crapped on for 4 years by places like fox and a lot of people see her as too rigid.
59 years young!
>59 years young! Almost 20 years younger than Trump, too
No one is concerned with the mental capabilities of a 59 year old showing no signs of decay. Harris's problem is she just isn't likeable and comes across as phony.
Phony? sure. Unlikeable? Not at all! When she isn’t trying to be all “woman of destiny” she can be fucking hilarious. Honestly, xan-ed out wine mom would be a major improvement over senile geezers.
There's a video of an interview with I don't remember who where during a commercial break or when they were prepping her she was talking about how she cooks a turkey. Or was it a chicken? The details don't matter. She was hilarious.
Right. Because people who act phony don’t make it far.
It is also poor politics to think women aren't gonna turn out unless they have a female president. Older women are reliable voters. it is the young of both genders that will lose this election for Democrats by staying home. Harris in the 2020 primary saw her numbers rapidly erode in a matter of weeks. Her polling now is not what it will be after 3 months as the figurehead. Democrats have a tested candidate that has been part of the national discussion since 2016 whose favorables with independents and young people has remained top of the class: [https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3617170-sanders-has-highest-favorability-among-possible-2024-contenders-poll/](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3617170-sanders-has-highest-favorability-among-possible-2024-contenders-poll/)
As a progressive that has voted for bernie in the previous primaries, replacing biden with someone that will be 83 by the time he takes office is not the right move. I would have loved to have president sanders, but that opportunity has passed.
So your plan is to replace a candidate that is 81 years old, for the reason that he is too old; with a man who is 83 years old?
Biden had signs of dementia 4 years ago but nobody cared then. I'll take a healthy old candidate that is popular with the voters whose turnout fluctuates the most over someone who has proven that at the slightest bit of negative ad spend their numbers crater
Damn she looks great.
Stunning, even.
Kamala gives an amazing speech at the DNC? Don't hold your breath.
Pigs will fly first. Zero charisma
It speaks volumes that her favorability is even lower than Biden's, which is already abysmal.
She's not a good politician and she got pretty thoroughly stomped in the selection process in 2019. Her record as a prosecutor in San Francisco is a negative and the only press I've heard from her since the election are reports on the levels of dysfunction in her office. So her or Hillary is the obvious choice for the DNC to replace Biden with.
I mean primaries don't really mean anything tbh, Biden got stomped in 08 and won in 2020.
>Her record as a prosecutor in San Francisco is a negative Having been a prosecutor is a negative for a Democratic primary, but would it be such a negative in a general election against Trump? As a Democrat the GOP is naturally going to try to claim she isn't tough on crime, but the race would be a prosecutor against a convicted felon. I don't her history as prosecutor would scare away any left wing voters that voted for Biden last time since they were able to get over the 1994 Crime Bill that Biden drafted the Senate version of.
I'd say the GOP would figure out a way to either negate it or turn it into a negative. Either she'll be a hypocrite because her prosecutor record won't jive with stump speeches or she'll be a miserable failure because liberal San Francisco is bad and it's her fault. I'd be more concerned about depressing Democratic turnout.
I guess I forgot to add the /s
Fine go with Harris but she better learn how to become a firebrand and learn to fight instead of panicking about public perception if she is not civil. Now is not the time for civility politics its time for boldness and taking risk.
She would need an attack dog VP.
Buttigieg would be one option. He's great at being able to go on right wing debate and get his point across
Do we really want a conservative-lite prosecutor with a sketchy history *with* another conservative-lite that doesn't believe in single payer Healthcare and many other basic things democrats like? I'm so fucking tired of our options being "they're not trump" while they're actually more conservative than most of the democratic party would like to go.
>Do we really want a conservative-lite prosecutor with a sketchy history Being a former prosecutor is a lot different in the general where Dems are criticized for being too light on crime. >with another conservative-lite that doesn't believe in single payer Healthcare The VP doesn't get to set policy. If the president supports single payer then it's the administration's stance. If the president doesn't then that's the administration's stance. The President will set the administration's agenda. The VP's only actual roles are breaking ties in the Senate and being prepared if the President needs to be replaced. Outside of those official tasks they just fill an outreach or attack dog role.
Nobody can respect him after he at a cinnamon roll like a chicken wing.
Honestly have no idea what you’re even talking about so this sounds like a hang up only you have.
I should have clarified I was being sarcastic. I just remember everyone dogging him for it during the 2020 primary.
Katie porter it would also help Harris with progressive voters.
I like this take. I’m not crazy about Kamala, but if she stopped giving a shit and just called it like it is, it could resonate with a lot of people.
A week ago I would have said that Harris is a non-starter. I don't think that's true anymore. I would prefer Whitmer, but Harris gets the Biden war chest. And you can't bypass Harris without alienating a lot of the Democratic base.
Forgive my ignorance on the whole "war chest" thing. If a candidate steps down can’t they just transfer the unused funds to the DNC?
It gets really messy with anyone but Harris, because you can't just transfer it to another candidate. If it goes to the DNC or a PAC, they're allowed to work on behalf of a candidate, but they're not allowed to directly coordinate with the campaign.
Break campaign finance laws, get the presidency, then pardon :)
Not a terrible idea 🤣
I’ve got to assume the outpouring of donations would dwarf that though.
I feel like Harris is under-estimated, and not sure why reddit is quite so hard on her. Not perfect, but Biden was far from perfect in the first place. Though I do think Whitmer would have a much easier time winning and do much better in swing states. If one of Newsome's problems is being from California as some are saying, well that is an issue for Harris also.
Because Harris polls poorly. Almost as bad as Biden. Whitmer and Mayor Pete are polling the best. https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
She polls awful, she gives awful peaches and talks weird, and she has a horrible career record of doing sketchy and morally wrong things to help the police and fuck people over. If you really don't understand why people don't like her then you just haven't learned enough about her.
I think Whitmer would do better, but I can't see how that happens. Harris is probably the only slightly-realistic option.
The war chest is pointless. Negative ads will not hurt Trump. Positive ads will not help Harris. Ignore the money and find someone people will want to root for.
The war chest is replaceable. A new candidate would drive so much excitement and fundraising overnight.
Campaign funds are for much more than advertising. They pay for staff, transportation, event costs, voter turnout efforts, and legal fees.
That's simply not how presidential elections go
Right because sexual predators with a well documented history of also being a lying scam artist being favored to win is a textbook example of "simply how presidential elections go"
I'd like to know how good your American history knowledge is Do you think Trump is the worst president in US history?
Harris is fine with me. But a black woman as president? That would ignite the far right like never before and usher in an even worse era of radicalism
I'd like to see the far-right coping.
That’s what Trump was. Coping from Obama
Same. Give her a dynamic running mate and roll the dice. It can’t hurt…. But they won’t.
Call me crazy, but id entertain the idea of a unity ticket. Bring on a common sense moderate Republican (don’t laugh) to pair up with the Dem. President candidate. Campaign on unity and coming together to solve problems. The Republican Party gets a new pillar of leadership to help pry it away from MAGA.
That would be excellent.
Please don't. She is intelligent and accomplished, but with zero relatability or likeability and is polling nearly as bad as Biden. This is a surefire way to lose the election. The only difference is that instead of a landslide, we'll lose by less.
Couldn’t agree more! I thought she had so much potential when she was a presidential candidate but once she became VP, I was so disappointed
I think my labradoodle would poll better than Biden right now. That doesn’t mean shit. If Kamala Harris was such a great candidate, then people wouldn’t be SO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT BIDENS AGE. They so would just be like cool, she can take over when the worst happens. But that’s not the general vibe out there. There are a LOT of people that don’t want to see her president. Including people in her own party, or they wouldn’t be floating new names.
Let the anti-bedwetting brigade bury this too.
Joe Biden cannot win. Full stop.
It seems that Harris isn't at the disadvantage some have been concerned she might be.
you really trust the media now?
It's not about trusting the media or anyone else. It's about the fact that after the debate, having Biden at the top of the ticket means Dems will lose up and down the ballot. So they have to try something different. They could very well still lose with Harris at the top of the ticket, but it's better than simply accepting defeat 4 months out from the election.
they should have tried something different 4 years ago, they didn't. so instead of a man well past his prime, you choose the person who can easily be called out for her keeping prisoners locked up past the end of their sentences and even innocent people locked up? thats who you think to push instead? and you trust a CNN poll claiming she will beat trump? the best way to beat trump is not run an entrenched democrat, you need your own trump, and you don't have one.
The media wasn't the one assuring the public that Biden was fine.
good to know CNN, MSNBC are not considered "The Media".
They are not the one assuring you Biden was fine. They are reporting what democrats are spewing.
so they were mouth pieces for the democrats and you still trust them?
They are reporters. They report. They are not the one telling you Biden if fine. They are telling you that democrats are telling you Biden is fine. They have also been complaining non stop that they have no access to him. So much so that NYT made a public statement and led to the WH shutting them out.
and the reported lies, and you still trust them.
… until she opens her mouth. She was a bad pick in 2020, she’s a bad pick now. Offer her AG and have everyone move on.
Will literally vote for anyone or anyTHING against Trump but I do find it hard to imagine Harris even having a successful phone call with Putin, let alone anything in person
Kamala is one of the worst politicians I’ve ever seen. Her being chosen as VP after submitting a remarkably terrible presidential campaign where she couldn’t even make it to Iowa epitomizes failing upward. She has no strong convictions, evidenced by her endless flip-flopping on virtually every policy issue since becoming a senator in 2016. And she is such a bad public speaker that the defining theme of her as VP is awkward word salad. And yet, she’s a marginally better candidate than Biden at this point. Democrat elites have backed themselves into an impossible corner by playing identity politics in choosing Kamala and then effectively closing the primary off from any challengers to Biden running again. Neither one can beat Trump, though Kamala at least has a chance at not suffering one of the biggest blowouts in history (which is Biden’s certain fate).
I honestly believe Biden will step down. The calls are getting louder. There's no way around it. It will be Kamala 100%. She needs to pick a VP who will appeal to undecided voters and who's the most qualified to take over if something happens to her. I'm getting excited to see new life in the Democratic party! Let's Go!!! 🌊
I didn't support her in 2020 but I'm so ready for a Kamala Harris presidency
Excellent username on an unrelated note.
CNN is controlled opposition. DO NOT trust anything they say.
Do not I repeat DO NOT put Kamala Harris up to the job. She is very unlikeable, we will lose.
Nope, not her.
Please, not Harris. Pete or Whitmer. Someone who isn’t from California and isn’t Biden ir Harris
She is worse than all the others and projected to lose.
These polling data say otherwise re: doing worse.
Here's the best poll you'll ever get to see, the internal campaign poll: https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf Check out page 13.
The head to head there says clearly Whitmer is the best candidate in a head to head in the swing states. If Whitmer can win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and NE-2, that's ALL I need.
I'm in MI and she all but has the state locked up.
And she also said she's confident Biden can win MI. She's literally the co-chair of Biden's re-election campaign
To tell you the truth I'm confident that Biden will win MI as well. The GOP here has been a trainwreck even by GOP standards. If you're not familiar with it look into Ottawa Impact and you will see the great job the MAGA county commission has done in one of the most populated counties that Trump needs to dominate to win the state. That doesn't even go into the drama the ex GOP chair is causing.
Yes, Whitmer is my preference. A lot of people have floated Whitmer/Shapiro to get that MI/PA combo. I have no problem with Buttigieg but I was surprised that poll said he would do that well, being part of the current admin.
That document quite literally says that every alternative candidate polls better than Biden: >All alternative candidates poll ahead of Biden in every battleground state.
I am going by the puck-reported leak and the most recent data on 538. On 538 Whitmer and Booker are at Trump+2 whereas Biden, Harris and others are +3 or more. In the Puck internal poll there are models showing that Whitmer and Buttigieg would win, with Biden, Harris and Newsom losing. The poll you've linked just shows an image to me, I don't see an article. Maybe it's my network being blocked. Additionally there is an anti-incumbency thing going on as people blame Biden's admin for inflation- AND depending how bad Biden's state of mind is, she might have to deal with a lot of issues with regards to concealing it from the public. I agree that she would do better than Biden, but the linked image says former dem rep. says Kamala should be the nominee. I frankly don't trust elder or former dems to make these decisions, because their lack of common sense is what got us into this situation. Not to mention Biden handing it off to her would be particularly undemocratic, no one voted for her to be president, only to take over if Biden died, and frankly the last primary was not real. There should at least be an open convention so people can become acquainted with those running, and we can poll it. Then if Kamala runs against Whitmer and Buttigieg and becomes the most popular, absolutely she is the right choice.
Swing states matter more than overall
It's hard for me to tell what this data is, because the link is just goes to a photo when I click it. What I saw in the other Puck leaked poll showed Whitmer doing better with swing states.
Well after the debate, Biden is definitely losing, so what's the risk?
If we are going to go through the chaos of replacing Biden we need to do it the right way. We should have an open convention so people can see the process, and they can poll more as people get acquainted with the candidates. This idea that we can just have Biden step aside and quietly continue with Harris is BS to me because it's going to be a huge deal regardless. So we should do it the most democratic way possible, and select who is best, even if it is slightly messier. If you check that internal poll leaked Puck, the models show that Harris would do better but lose, where as Whitmer and Buttigieg would win.
Plus you could easily put a Governor on the ticket. I'm an unaffiliated, but pissed I have to run for a convicted lying sack of shit that sucks Putin's dick or a mummified corpse of a senator from the 80's. Of course I would vote for the corpse over the "Great Value" Nazi, but it shouldn't be this kind of choice in a real Democratic Republic. Its a symbol of the end to me for the US.
Harris has a fighting chance, and she preferable to Biden, I would ever argue she’s a little underrated. However, the correct play is an open convention, if she comes out of that as the nominee that is one thing but if the party just tried to switch her and Biden like we won’t notice it will go poorly
If Biden is going to drop, please don't slot Kamala in there instead. Put Whitmer or Newsom in at least.
She's better than the product that was on display at the debated. Any semi-competent younger candidate is better than Biden. This is what voters have asked for the last 4 years.
I have such a hard time believing this. Harris has been a ghost and when she was here I can’t recall any positive impressions media or otherwise.
Well, if you vote for Biden, you're likely gong to get Harris at some point.
This is why Democrats shoot themselves in the foot ALOT. Republicans will get behind ONE guy (literally no matter what we've seen it) and the Democrats can't get behind anyone. One issue they don't like about a candidate, they get written off complete while Republicans have chose to stand by Trump through every single thing...one after the other including now becoming King. Even before the debate last week, I've seen plenty of liberal voters say they won't vote for Biden just because of Palestine while one party is talking about fascism out in the open. No matter who Democrats choose. they will eat each other apart because it's not PeRfEcT! All I hear is people scrambling for other candidates but everyone is up in fucking arms about every single choice...Republicans know this too, just Democrats haven't learned from 2016 why Trump came into power in the first place when Clinton was spelling it out loud to everyone. Look at this very thread as prime example * Independent Here
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Man CNN really is going in for maximum drama for ratings. 2 months from now "Trump is better for the country than a divisive democrat, please ignore our ratings bonanza".
They're just reporting on what's happening. As much as you think they control the narrative, they're just asking the questions that viewers want answered. There's no doubt that Biden will step aside and we're just watching history unfold.
I wouldn't say there's no doubt, it's possible he tries to solider on. But the calls for him to let someone else run are getting louder, and they're starting to come from within his own party.
Yep. This is pretty fucking dramatic.
Sure buddy sure.
She has the personality of a 2x4. Abandoning Biden for Harris is the classic short-sighted oblivious bullshit the DNC has been pulling since 2016. The need to run Newsom or Butigieg.
Newsome looses the rust belt. Gotta be Whitmer or Shapiro.
All are fine with me, but Whitmer would have this locked up. Imagine being able to attack Donald Trump from the perspective of being the target of one his posse’s failed attempts to actually kidnap and torture an opposing politician.
I’d take anyone at this point.
Whitmer seems viable.
Certain corners of the party will accuse everyone else of being racist for not wanting to anoint Kamala. That’s a landmine that could further destroy the Dem coalition before November. This is what the party gets for choosing a VP based purely on identity as opposed to any meaningful political acumen or talent.
I kind of put it in another thread, but what about Newsom w/ Buttigieg for VP planning for 2032. Then Harris runs for California Governor.
>Abandoning Biden for Harris is the classic short-sighted oblivious bullshit the DNC has been pulling since 2016. Well, so is sticking with a candidate that their voters don't want. Remember that in 2016, Sanders beat out Clinton with pledged delegates (i.e. delegates pledged through primaries and caucuses) and it was only because super-delegates were allowed to vote in the first round that she beat him out.
> Remember that in 2016, Sanders beat out Clinton with pledged delegates (i.e. delegates pledged through primaries and caucuses) and it was only because super-delegates were allowed to vote in the first round that she beat him out. Hillary had 2205 pledged delegates. Bernie had 1846 pledged delegates. Hillary had almost 400 more pledged delegates than Bernie not even counting superdelegates. Which isn't surprising as she won 11 more contests than Bernie and she won 9 out of the top ten largest states (and 15 out of the top 20). She also had 16,917,853 popular vote compared to Bernie's 13,210,550.
Yes for Newsom. He's got some baggage but there's a reason why he won the recall hands down. Harris is a good VP for him. She was a prosecutor. Plus they're both Californians which idk I think is good. I'd rather every state turn into California than New Russia. Butigieg is a no from me. The Boeing situation.
I see we didn't learn anything about Hillary..
The problem with Harris is that she is not going to be able to raise even a fraction of what Biden could.
er why this an issue? Harris as VP already has access to the entire Biden campaign warchest
Crazy that there's more comments than upvotes on this. A lot of people in denial
Russian downvote bots. Known strategy
Harris has some of the same issues at Clinton! They just aren’t likable and has nothing to do with what their job performance would be as POTUS! I didn’t bode well for Harris last time so this time would be reflective of that scenario!
Harris could be president. She is more capable then biden.
If Biden steps down I would only vote for Gretchen Whitmer. Harris, Newsom, whoever else wouldn't win. Josh Shapiro is cool and handsome but Whitmer is far more capable and proven so.
Except these dara suggest otherwise, as much as I also love Whitmer
She's starting at a lower recognition point than most of the other names but she's what we'd call a high-upside candidate. On a first impressions level she's on the surface quite likeable, speaks well, isn't a pushover and isn't too politically extreme. She seems to have more charm than Harris and is more down to earth and less "slick" than Newsom. The potential for higher popularity is there but you don't know for sure until you put her out there, that's the main risk.
People don't know her yet. She's closest to Trump out of everyone. I want to be honest. I don't think I'm for this yet. But if polls don't improve quickly I'm throwing my hat in the ring for Whitmer and her chosen VP.
Harris would lose too. Michelle Obama or bust.
There is zero indication she is interested. She is the Colin Powel of the dems, someone who could have been president if they wanted.
If she is the only one that could beat Trump and thinks fascism is better than being inconvenienced then she sucks.
She had mental health issues in the whitehouse related to the attacks of the Republicans. I can see why she doesn't want that times 100
Couldn't she run then step aside after she wins? She wouldn't have to be president, just win the election.
It doesn't work that way. The campaign alone might be enough to put her in a dark place. Unlike Hillary she never wanted to be in politics and doesn't handle it well.
Honestly I think it's just too late. Every poll shows Trump is ahead of dems. I feel like 2020 a lot of promises were made to voters, especially by progressives, and people do not feel the results living up to the promises.
At this point nobody is beating Trump but Biden. Let’s not forget the only one to beat him so far. The only way I want Biden stepping down is if Trump also steps down and that’s not happening so let’s go Joe!
None of the available data supports that position. Biden was losing in the critical states before he imploded on television. It’s going to get worse for him, not better. Anyone still willing to vote Biden at this point is doing so to try and keep the orange anus out of office. This group of people will be happy to support whoever the Democratic nominee is, but that isn’t enough. Swapping in a fresh, younger fighter who has the mental and physical stamina to campaign like the fate of the world depends on it is the only option at earning back support from the swing voters in the 6-7 states that get to decide the election.
“Available data” hahaha please stop with this shit. None of this data can tell you anything real. It’s all bad data. And just to play your game up until the debate Joe was leading in the polls. Ironic that he’s the one being asked to be replaced in this situation especially when you realize he WON the debate if you listen to the content. Hell, Trump didn’t even answer a question. Bringing in a new candidate (even Kamala) would be an instant death sentence and guarantee victory for Trump. Last I checked the only person to beat him so far is Biden. The ONLY way we should accept Biden stepping down is if the Orange Clown does as well. That’s it!
Sure. A woman that sounds like a nagging mom has a chance. Our country is way too sexist for her.
Is it sexist to despise a toxic person if she happens to be a woman? All the reasons I find Kamala repellant have nothing to do with her sex.