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So, another unpopular woman against Trump. Can’t imagine how well that’s going to go. WHY is the Democratic Party so averse to rallying ANY enthusiasm?
Newsom cannot win. A California liberal will not win a Midwest or rust belt state… I love the guy, but it just won’t happen. Buttigieg is openly gay, there’s literally zero chance enough Americans actually vote for him (tragic statement but it’s true). Whitmer is the only one who maybe has a shot, but it would require a massive, MASSIVE PR campaign to get her name out there as she’s relatively unknown.
It’s not about distrust, but there’s a non negligible percentage of Americans who would not be comfortable having an openly gay president, who may not vote for one, who would vote for Biden, Harris or Whitmer. They probably wouldn’t vote for Trump either, but abstaining from voting would have the same impact.
I feel like anyone aside from John Stewart would lose in polling right at this moment because no one else has been campaigning or "marketing" themselves.
For Newsom, most Americans know nothing about him unless they heard some really fucking stupid take from Fox News.
For Whitmere, I doubt most Americans even know who she is.
She would easily win Michigan and they could tout her legislative accomplishments there recently which would probably also motivate young voters to turn out as well.
I disagree. A different nominee would instantly be one of the most known people in the world. For people who haven't already decided, it's not going to matter that they didn't know who the person was in July.
I feel that's exactly why somebody else would win! In general, the more intimately Americans get to know a politician, the more they dislike them. Whoever gets the nomination is obviously going to reach anyone interested in voting for them with a basic message. That would be plenty for most people, since most people are voting against Trump rather than for another particular candidate. I think Kamala is basically the only other choice that could also lose....good choice dems....but most other candidates just aren't known well enough to be universally hated by the American people yet.
I hope that isn’t the case. Stay home when the actual bedrock of our republic is on the line??? “I didn’t like either candidate, so I let a dictator take over.”
People are irrational when they are angry. They are tired of doing the anti-trump vote and seeing it get them nowhere because Roe v. Wade still fell people aren’t capable of complex thought. I’m in a purple state so I’m going to do everything I can. But people HAVE to understand that a significant portion of people won’t fight when they don’t feel it’s going to do a bit of good.
How many more rights do you want to lose when Trump appoints another third of the court, after it’s just granted itself supreme authority over federal regulations that they don’t understand, and you have no hope of a sane majority in your lifetime? This is bigger than Trump, or Biden, or Harris.
No matter what happens on the Democratic ticket, it’s risky. No matter what happens, you need to communicate to everyone you know that the stakes are your country as you know it. You want clean air and water, and workplace safety prioritized over corporate profits? Fight for it.
Doing all I can. But apathy will destroy us, so one can also fight for democracy by advocating for the party to bring us a candidate that can wake up the apathetic. That carries far more influence than my tiny little mouth talking to a few people.
A few million tiny little mouths talking to a few people has always been the answer. The party won’t save us. You don’t need a savior. You need to move a couple of voters.
The point they are making is that uninformed voters are less likely to participate if they don't immediately see the results. I am an informed voter and even I'm exhausted and nearly fed up with the way things are. I'm not motivated. At. All. And do not have it in me to canvas.
I have the luxury of a mail-in ballot., but imagine, for a moment, those low (and well) informed voters who have reduced access or hurdles...Those people need a candidate to rally behind and be excited about.
Democrats have to stop bringing store-bought and nearly expired potato salad to the potluck. Nobody wants it-- but they'll eat the stale chips because at least it has salsa.
I don’t know what you expect. If Democrats choose to run one of the most unpopular vice presidents in history, they’re going to be punished by voters for it.
We don’t have to do dumb things. We can run candidates who don’t suck. Rather than resigning ourselves to doom and simply saying “blue no matter who”, we have a very good opportunity to pick a candidate who will actually motivate voters right now.
Who else is gonna do it? Running takes money. The Biden war chest isn't open to just anyone. Legally, people donated to Biden & Harris. If the nominee isn't one of them, people could mount legal challenges and it'd be a fucking nightmare to untangle in time for Election Day.
Candidates drop out of races all the time, especially before nominations have occurred. It’s nothing unusual and federal law has been written to accommodate that.
The Biden campaign funds will get transferred to the party committee who will use the money to run huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. This is something they already do normally, they’ll just have a somewhat bigger pot than normal.
> A candidate’s authorized committee may transfer unlimited campaign funds to a party committee or organization. Any nonfederal law that would prohibit such a transfer to a party organization is preempted by federal law.
https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/taking-receipts-political-party/transfers-or-party-committees/
Mm, perhaps. Didn't know that.
Well, we'll see who they pick, if anyone. I'd love a Whitmer/Beshear ticket more than Kamala, thats for sure. But first we gotta get this clown to step down.
Buttigieg has as much rizz as a cauliflower, but still more than Harris.
Newsom is the rizz king, but people will hate him for being a coastal elite and governor of Commiefornia.
My money is on Whitmer. She is governor of a swing(ish) state. She is conventionally attractive and a good public speaker. She has also been a very effective governor and Michigan has seen some pretty progressive changes under her leadership.
Now, will the Democratic party actually do this? Probably not. They seem intent on losing to Trump again.
Newsome could win. I think Whitmer could too. Both are younger and smarter. Newsome is slightly problematic, but he'd be fun in a debate with Trump. Whitmer I think could really rally people. She's tough and has been gov of a pretty purple state. I think she'd be able to really gather support and momentum and present a much more viable option to Trump. I think Harris would turn off a lot of swing voters and is just fuel for MAGA.
This is why I think replacing Biden is a bad idea. Everyone is raging about the Democrats refusing to replace him, but if they do replace him, we'll see at least as many people raging that they picked the wrong candidate. After all, they didn't see a primary, and didn't receive a mandate from voters.
This is the trap. The Republicans can run literally the worst person on the planet and the Democrats have to sift through every person who has ever held public office like we're at a thrift store.
Full disclosure: I *really* don't like Kamala, or her stans. But she's the only possible replacement that would be able to seamlessly step into the Biden war chest & GOTV operation, since she's his running mate. Nobody else would easily be able to access those dollars, and it takes BILLIONS to even have a shot at winning.
SO. Is she a charismatic black hole? Yes. Is a Harris/OtherDem ticket still an uphill battle? Yes. But she's the only person who the donor class would accept as the ticket headliner, she's the only person who wouldn't have to waste time building out her campaign apparatus. She's the only compromise position that's realistically on the table.
We're going to be lucky to get rid of Biden *at all*, we are not in a position to quibble over "Well I *would have* preferred \[insert Democratic governor here\]". I say this as a socialist. The realpolitik of this situation *sucks ass* but that's what it is.
Call your elected officials and DEMAND they call for Biden to step down.
EDIT: It might be easier to transfer funds to other candidates, than I thought. Certainly not an election finance lawyer. It it *could* be someone other than Kamala, I'd vastly prefer that.
Kamala has a significant edge in one scenario; Biden steps down from the presidency before the end of the month.
This gets all the "woman president" muck out of the way and gives her a few months to demonstrate that she is capable of doing the job. Voting for Kamala in November while Biden is still President means she is an unknown. Voting for Kamala as the incumbent is a totally different story.
I agree with most of what you said except her being the only possible replacement. Most likely for them to pick sure, but I think there is only one good choice with a solid chance of winning, as no new leaders, centrist or progressive, have come forward since 2020 and every other centrist in 2020 including Kamala proved unpopular.
Since the DNC will never let that happen, the best option is to let this blow over since it's really mostly a segment of Democrats who were ignoring this reality for the past 4 years anyways and focus on the anti-Trump campaign, since that's what really won last time and the anti-Trump sentiment has only gotten stronger with events since then. To the majority of Americans who disliked Biden and didn't think he was capable in the first place, this really changes nothing, if anything it might be an improvement if Biden's advisors are actually running things. Focus on the priority, preserving democracy.
If Biden not only chose not to run for reelection, but actually decided to step down as President, then Kamela would suddenly become the first woman President in American history.
This alone would give her a bit of a boost, plus it would give her several months to show the world that she can do the job well.
The majority of our party wasn’t ever enthusiastic for Biden. They were just resigned to him and found him “acceptable”, despite his wins. Harris is part of the reason for the lack of enthusiasm. A new candidate would keep the loyal voters and envoke at least some enthusiasm and optimism in what many feel is now a hopeless race.
No one had enthusiasm for Biden in the first place, Biden was the first president to win while being down in the enthusiasm polling, it was always an anti-Trump vote, not a pro-Biden vote. Biden was more a "least offensive pick" being the only one that could actually challenge Sanders in the primary, Harris polled at 8% in her own state and dropped out, I have no idea what possessed Biden to pick her as VP, but she is deeply unpopular and has no positive impact on the ticket.
Because they follow the rules. In their rules, she would be next. Just like Hilary and her "it's my turn" strategy.
If Biden continues he will lose to Trump. If Harris runs she will lose to Trump.
Democrats love blaming their losses on the voters instead of their horrible strategies. When Biden loses it will be Ageism. When Harris loses it will be another bout of Sexism.
I'll never vote for Trump but damn the DNC are losers.
How would you propose a brand new candidate pays for the supermassive ad campaign they’ll have to run in order to even have a remote chance? Biden can’t just give his $ millions in the war chest to whoever asks for it.
They are probably hoping there will be another Obama moment at the polls if they put her there, hanging the entire election on a single demographic.
The biggest issue right now is the demotivation after the debate. People may have decided they aren’t voting for anyone. And that is not good for the Dems, they need record level turnout outs to win this one.
My personal opinion is that if she was so very popular a choice, then why TF is everyone freaking out about Biden’s age? If she was that good a pick, no one would be worried. 🤷🏽♂️
They’re stuck. They have to get really creative to figure out a way to bypass the sitting VP and first black Asian woman VP at that. If they go with her, it’ll probably be a disaster, if they don’t, it’ll be a disaster. They have to figure out some convoluted way to pull this off. No way Harris goes willingly.
They have to stage a new primary or something. A quick vote to show who the party voters really want.
This is why replacing Biden is a huge risk. You actually care who the candidate is. So do lots of other people and you don’t all agree. We don’t have time to hold a real primary so whoever gets the nod will be illegitimate.
Picking a candidate is an ordeal. How many people failed to show up in 2016 because they didn’t think HRC’s nomination was legit?
Not saying I want to stick with Biden, but a switch is a massive risk that will almost certainly end in tears. We are in a REALLY bad spot.
If Biden chooses to retire, democrats should hold a pre-convention debate, let the American people see their options. Poll the populace, and then conduct an open convention.
Harris may be the best, but she should earn that position. She has earned the position of vice president 2020-2024, but not presidential nominee. This does a disservice to everyone else.
There may be some financial reasons, donor money rules in particular, that may be complicating such a move, but I do believe the best is to give the people a chance to be heard. This will return energy to a seriously lethargic party.
One of the advantages of replacing Biden is not having to defend any of the actions from his admin, like afghan withdrawal, Israel funding or inflation. Keeping Kamala is like the worst of both worlds.
Replace the worst polling candidate with the second worst polling candidate all because Harris can’t just act like an adult and realize she isn’t popular
Wait until the convention to do anything. Biden steps down and a replacement is chosen. Hopefully they choose 8 more years with Whitmer.
If it’s Kamala, get ready for Trump 2.0.
Yeah I personally can’t see the Democrats foregoing all the campaign money and the infrastructure the Biden-Harris ticket has accumulated. Plus Harris just doesn’t have the physical infirmity that will be the catalyst and driving force behind Joe dropping out. It’ll be Harris if Joe drops out, for good or for ill.
The only way all these dem governors get a shot as a replacement candidate is if Harris lets them. And I honestly just don’t see her doing that.
The internal polling that leaked yesterday says otherwise
She isn't my top choice but handing her the reigns makes the most sense and probably causes the least amount of chaos within the party. Harris was elected to be the 1st in line if the president can't fulfill his duties.
We are literally there right now
I don't see how you pass over her without admitting she was never qualified to begin with, which Republicans would clobber us with in November
Also good luck explaining that move to black women who are the most reliable democratic voting bloc in the country
Republicans are going to clobber us with all kinds of stupid bullshit no matter what.
You don’t make decisions based on that. You make decisions based on what’s best.
Nobody in the real world gives a flying fuck about Kamala Harris being passed over. They care about the intrigue of replacing Biden and who is going to be the best person to do that.
Edited: clarity
I think a black woman VP being passed over might not play super well with some very dependable voters.
I wish Kamala was better, but I wouldn’t be surprised if just the act of Biden stepping down and her giving a good acceptance speech caused a positive swing.
There are better black women that could be candidates for president. This isn't about Kamala being black. It's about her not being a very good candidate.
There simply isn't a perfect candidate for everyone to rally behind
Mayor Pete is gay and not popular with minorities
Whitmer is a relative unknown on the national stage
Newsome isn't popular in the Midwest and south
If there was a person we could sub in that had none of the baggage I would line up behind them immediately. But there isn't, so I think going with the current VP (who is already on the ticket) makes the most sense
This seems like a problem of the left fracturing among themselves, like how the Toronto pride parade got ended early because of Palestine protesters, whereas the conservatives have no problem rallying behind Trump.
I would lump him in with Whitmer in the "relatively unknown" category. I know he's gov of Illinois but I had to look up his first name. Yes I'm an idiot, but I like to think I'm more dialed into national politics than the average American
she is qualified, the question is "is she popular enough" if she takes over she needs to be more authentic because ever time she speaks you can see her doing the math about what she is saying.
the old way of being a politician is seen as being robotic. the trick nowadays is to be authentic have ups and downs that make you seem like a real person..... while not having negative media cling onto your downs and have them define you
Who is "everyone"? I keep seeing this being mentioned at how much she is hated. Why and by who? She may not be everyone's top choice but neither was Biden and he won. People out there are flying way to high on their dream scenario as if it would be that easy. Kamala, as the VP, is best suited imo.
People in this sub aren’t going to like anyone that can win. Biden beat Trump by being centrist enough that Republicans who didn’t like Trump could accept him. It’s not as exciting to us as someone more progressive, but centrism is the appropriate way to run for what is an anti-Trump coalition.
It is a "have my cake and eat it" situation. You all want Biden to drop out (which he should) but at the same time ignore the most logical and obvious choice because of some far fetched dream team you came up with that you believe crushes Trump.
Biden needs to resign for this to work, she needs to have the gloves off the minute she takes office and wield what the Supreme Court has given The Executive branch. This will give her momentum going into the convention and energize the base. I
God I hate being a Democrat. The other side is literally MTG, Matt Gaetz, Donald Trump, etc. and we can’t figure out how to beat them. Here’s some advice. Joe, Kamala, Hillary, are the worst picks you can make. The worst!!!! Jeff Jackson, Pete Buttigieg, a democrat governor are the no-brainers. Maybe the DNC could try what the voters actually want for once instead of being authoritarian just with more steps?
I don't know if Jeff Jackson would be a good pick solely because I don't think he is known. And his TikTok vote that he was kinda eviscerated on TikTok for. And I don't know his policies. But I do love the person (barring his vote on the ban)
He didn't just win, they really love him. There were signs for a Democrat for Governor in the most stuck up fuck you I got mine Republican neighborhoods. It was insane.
Why are you all so confident that Kamala would lose? I've been listening to her debate against Pence, she is articulate and confident. Plus, as other people have said, she would get to keep the campaign donations, instead of starting over. Her name is nationally recognized as the VP and she could pick Pete Buttigieg as her running mate, the first gay VP ever. Those two would run laps around Trump and who ever his lame VP pick is. So I ask again, why not Kamala?
Question: Does anyone know if the ticket could as easily keep its current war chest if Kamala stayed on as the VP nominee and someone else was put at the top of the ticket?
Most likely scenario if Biden decides to stop his run for reelection is that his campaign would donate most of its funds to the National Democratic Party, who would then donate some/most/all of the funds to campaign of whomever gets the nomination.
The Biden campaign could also donate some/all funds to a charity or a super pac. It wouldn’t be a surprise if at least some of its funds go to a charity - specifically one based on raising funds for a Biden Presidential Library.
They need to do this by the electoral map and Harris needs to realize that. Whitmer and Shapiro are Dem governors who won their swing states by 10+ points. If we can get MI and PA in the bag we are golden.
The only candidate should be Whitmer. She would win all the Dem safe states Biden would win, would easily win Michigan, and most likely win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania state being a well liked rust belt governor. That right there is enough to win the election.
For all her issues, Harris has been at her best when grilling people trying to bullshit her (Barr, Kavanaugh, Pence)
The prosecutor (Harris) facing the criminal (Trump) is a narrative that would absolutely get eyeballs.
To quote the godfather:
*I'm talking about a dishonest man - a crooked man who got mixed up in the rackets and got what was coming to him. That's a terrific story.*
Whitmer, MI / Shapiro PA
Governors from 2 swing states who both won election / reelection with decent margins.
Both good campaigners, speakers and debaters.
What kills me is everyone was happy with the general performance of the current government and given a chance to continue that there's this sudden panic and armchair diagnosis of dementia. Then when given the chance to pick the person presumably doing all the actual work you scream no and start trying to remember old anti-Harris talking points. No one will be good enough for you because you've been manipulated as much as a Fox News viewer but you don't know it.
Anyone but Biden
Oh and Harris because she's boring
Oh and mayor Pete because he's gay
Oh and Whitmer because she's unknown
Oh and Newsom because he's from California
But like I said, anyone but Biden....
The problem is this half-witted idea that going with someone else can be painless, and they think they can just install Harris without issue. It is going to be painful regardless, so have an open convention and poll people. The convention itself will get people interested and excited, and get media coverage that is exceptionally hard to get right now. Harris can throw her hat in the ring.
Am I insane for having no idea why Harris is so unpopular?
The most commonly cited reasons are either a niche thing that only progressives care about (her history as AG), or just vague reasons about “identity politics”?
Ya, her record as AG, her performance and answers in dem debates, overall smugness and lack of warmth and honesty. You can tell she is playing a part and isn't exactly good at it IMO. Then look at Trump. He's exactly who he is which I think resonates with people even though it's not good IMO. But what do I know
> In a Reuters/Ipsos poll published Tuesday, Harris trailed Trump by one percentage point at 42% to 43%, a difference that was well within the poll's 3.5 percentage point margin of error, a showing statistically just as strong as Biden's.
And this is before she’s even tried. Maybe she’s not so unpopular, just not known to the people yet.
There’s 4 months left… she’s really the only other option. Her name is already on ballots and bumper stickers, and she’d inherit the campaign donations. She’s female which aligns with the top issue driving people to the polls (women’s right). Going with someone else will disengage her demographic. Her VP can be a white male diversity pick.
> she’d inherit the campaign donations
If Biden withdraws, FEC rules allow him to transfer all his donations to the party, which could then distribute them to whichever candidate secures the nomination.
Harris would not be my choice... Why is the DNC so predictable and stupid? She's unpopular. She barely registered when she ran in the the primary. Why on earth would you make her the de facto candidate when democracy is literally on the line? Whitmer, Mayor Pete, Newsom. Literally anyone else with positive recognition that's under 60 will win in a landslide. My choice would be Whitmer. Have someone familiar with the troubles of the middle of this country in charge for a change.
There are still a lot of independents that are on the fence between Biden and Trump, somehow, and I think it's pretty obvious that anyone who's even considering voting for Donald Trump would never vote for a woman, let alone a woman of color.
I understand that I am voting for Kamala Harris with my vote for Joe Biden, and i would support and vote for her. But it's a guaranteed loss in this political environment, especially this late in the election year.
The time to replace Biden with Harris would have been about a year ago. We're well into the race now, so whether you like Biden or not, you're going to have to choose between the old white guy and the old white fascist felon rapist.
I'm not against a woman running for president but if Harris takes Biden's place she'll lose like Hilary Clinton did
Both of them don't have the likeability. Obama won on likeability. It would have to be someone completely different outside the current administration if the Dems decide to change the ticket.
Why does Biden need to drop out ? Why can’t he run on the strength of his policies over the last 4 years and replace Harris with a stronger VP candidate like Newsom ?
She has really not been given a chance to shine and just seems like a token for the admin to use during 2020. I really don't know if she even cares, or her heart is in it, but I don't think she's a top choice other than just being a logical successor based on her position as VP.
Why? She has no chance, no one is getting excited at the prospect of president Harris, it would be better to leave Biden in, he might have a chance, Harris has none
Come on Dems! What the hell is going on? We have no chance against Humpty Trumpty with this train of thought. We need to get serious and stop fucking around.
Flip President and VP as needed:
Whitmer / Buttigieg
Whitmer / Warnock
Harris / Whitmer
Whitmer / Raskin
Whitmer / Mark Kelly
Whitmer / Ossofff
I think you're getting from here that I'm a fan of Whitmer. But I just think she is our best shot at winning against Trump as well. There are some other names I mentioned here that I'm not hearing mentioned as often and I'm not sure why.
Dems need to realize the base is not enough to win. They need the middle. Put up a smart candidate with some charisma. Do not give us another Walter Mondale or Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or Hilary Clinton. Kamala is the imperfect mix of the last two. Insufferably arrogant.
I work with a number of lifelong republican voters who swear they wont vote for Trump this time around.
However they cant' fathom Kamala in office. I prod a bit and ask why... they never have a great answer. Its always something like "I just don't think she's up to the job". They can never elaborate on that or tell me what makes them feel that way. I mean... I suspect I know at least one or two reasons why they feel this but we all know they wont say it out loud.
So typical Republicans that like most Republicans who still believe that Obama was neither born in Hawaii or Christan and they can't put their finger on why Harris shouldn't get their vote.
A friend of mine from Kentucky mentioned Andy Beshear. While he doesn’t have strong name recognition, he won governor in a red state TWICE. I’m not sure how I feel about that scenario but it sort of makes sense. He can win over red state voters.
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So, another unpopular woman against Trump. Can’t imagine how well that’s going to go. WHY is the Democratic Party so averse to rallying ANY enthusiasm?
Whitmere, Buttigeg and Newsom might all lose to Trump but they’ll lose a hell of a lot less to him than fucking Kamala
Newsom cannot win. A California liberal will not win a Midwest or rust belt state… I love the guy, but it just won’t happen. Buttigieg is openly gay, there’s literally zero chance enough Americans actually vote for him (tragic statement but it’s true). Whitmer is the only one who maybe has a shot, but it would require a massive, MASSIVE PR campaign to get her name out there as she’s relatively unknown.
I mean the people who distrust gays ain't voting Democrat either way.
It’s not about distrust, but there’s a non negligible percentage of Americans who would not be comfortable having an openly gay president, who may not vote for one, who would vote for Biden, Harris or Whitmer. They probably wouldn’t vote for Trump either, but abstaining from voting would have the same impact.
I feel like anyone aside from John Stewart would lose in polling right at this moment because no one else has been campaigning or "marketing" themselves. For Newsom, most Americans know nothing about him unless they heard some really fucking stupid take from Fox News. For Whitmere, I doubt most Americans even know who she is.
She’s my governor and the country would be lucky to have her as president.
She would easily win Michigan and they could tout her legislative accomplishments there recently which would probably also motivate young voters to turn out as well.
100% would support Whitmere. She turned Michigan around incredibly fast and would be a boon for the US as president.
I don’t disagree but she is less known around the country.
I think whitmer from what I know of her at least is a great choice.
I disagree. A different nominee would instantly be one of the most known people in the world. For people who haven't already decided, it's not going to matter that they didn't know who the person was in July.
A Whitmer/Shapiro ticket would be instantly known and popular in two of the most important swing states as well.
No one knows who Shapiro is outside of Pennsylvania. I had to google him.
Who's Shapiro?
Penn governor. He’d almost assuredly deliver his state, which is must win.
>For Whitmere, I doubt most Americans even know who she is. Wasn't she the one who was targeted in an assassination attempt?
She was because she is actually cleaning house in Michigan and fighting back against all the MAGA bullshit.
Nobody really knew much about Obama. He is such a dynamic speaker that he earned everyone’s respect.
He also had more than a few months to build his profile
Pretty sure it won’t take long for people to learn considering it would be one of the biggest stories the world news covers this decade.
I think andy bashear would poll pretty high.
Would be a terrible loss for Kentucky though
I feel that's exactly why somebody else would win! In general, the more intimately Americans get to know a politician, the more they dislike them. Whoever gets the nomination is obviously going to reach anyone interested in voting for them with a basic message. That would be plenty for most people, since most people are voting against Trump rather than for another particular candidate. I think Kamala is basically the only other choice that could also lose....good choice dems....but most other candidates just aren't known well enough to be universally hated by the American people yet.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that if there’s no enthusiasm, people will stay home which means we will lose down ballot as well
I hope that isn’t the case. Stay home when the actual bedrock of our republic is on the line??? “I didn’t like either candidate, so I let a dictator take over.”
People are irrational when they are angry. They are tired of doing the anti-trump vote and seeing it get them nowhere because Roe v. Wade still fell people aren’t capable of complex thought. I’m in a purple state so I’m going to do everything I can. But people HAVE to understand that a significant portion of people won’t fight when they don’t feel it’s going to do a bit of good.
How many more rights do you want to lose when Trump appoints another third of the court, after it’s just granted itself supreme authority over federal regulations that they don’t understand, and you have no hope of a sane majority in your lifetime? This is bigger than Trump, or Biden, or Harris. No matter what happens on the Democratic ticket, it’s risky. No matter what happens, you need to communicate to everyone you know that the stakes are your country as you know it. You want clean air and water, and workplace safety prioritized over corporate profits? Fight for it.
Doing all I can. But apathy will destroy us, so one can also fight for democracy by advocating for the party to bring us a candidate that can wake up the apathetic. That carries far more influence than my tiny little mouth talking to a few people.
A few million tiny little mouths talking to a few people has always been the answer. The party won’t save us. You don’t need a savior. You need to move a couple of voters.
The point they are making is that uninformed voters are less likely to participate if they don't immediately see the results. I am an informed voter and even I'm exhausted and nearly fed up with the way things are. I'm not motivated. At. All. And do not have it in me to canvas. I have the luxury of a mail-in ballot., but imagine, for a moment, those low (and well) informed voters who have reduced access or hurdles...Those people need a candidate to rally behind and be excited about. Democrats have to stop bringing store-bought and nearly expired potato salad to the potluck. Nobody wants it-- but they'll eat the stale chips because at least it has salsa.
I don’t know what you expect. If Democrats choose to run one of the most unpopular vice presidents in history, they’re going to be punished by voters for it. We don’t have to do dumb things. We can run candidates who don’t suck. Rather than resigning ourselves to doom and simply saying “blue no matter who”, we have a very good opportunity to pick a candidate who will actually motivate voters right now.
Who else is gonna do it? Running takes money. The Biden war chest isn't open to just anyone. Legally, people donated to Biden & Harris. If the nominee isn't one of them, people could mount legal challenges and it'd be a fucking nightmare to untangle in time for Election Day.
Candidates drop out of races all the time, especially before nominations have occurred. It’s nothing unusual and federal law has been written to accommodate that. The Biden campaign funds will get transferred to the party committee who will use the money to run huge ad campaigns for the presidential race. This is something they already do normally, they’ll just have a somewhat bigger pot than normal. > A candidate’s authorized committee may transfer unlimited campaign funds to a party committee or organization. Any nonfederal law that would prohibit such a transfer to a party organization is preempted by federal law. https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/taking-receipts-political-party/transfers-or-party-committees/
Mm, perhaps. Didn't know that. Well, we'll see who they pick, if anyone. I'd love a Whitmer/Beshear ticket more than Kamala, thats for sure. But first we gotta get this clown to step down.
are we sure all 3 of them are willing to step into the race at this point?
Buttigieg has as much rizz as a cauliflower, but still more than Harris. Newsom is the rizz king, but people will hate him for being a coastal elite and governor of Commiefornia. My money is on Whitmer. She is governor of a swing(ish) state. She is conventionally attractive and a good public speaker. She has also been a very effective governor and Michigan has seen some pretty progressive changes under her leadership. Now, will the Democratic party actually do this? Probably not. They seem intent on losing to Trump again.
Newsome could win. I think Whitmer could too. Both are younger and smarter. Newsome is slightly problematic, but he'd be fun in a debate with Trump. Whitmer I think could really rally people. She's tough and has been gov of a pretty purple state. I think she'd be able to really gather support and momentum and present a much more viable option to Trump. I think Harris would turn off a lot of swing voters and is just fuel for MAGA.
This is why I think replacing Biden is a bad idea. Everyone is raging about the Democrats refusing to replace him, but if they do replace him, we'll see at least as many people raging that they picked the wrong candidate. After all, they didn't see a primary, and didn't receive a mandate from voters.
Having a primary doesn't stop the raging anyways.
This is the trap. The Republicans can run literally the worst person on the planet and the Democrats have to sift through every person who has ever held public office like we're at a thrift store.
I just wish we didn’t have to depend on the enthusiasm of voters.
Full disclosure: I *really* don't like Kamala, or her stans. But she's the only possible replacement that would be able to seamlessly step into the Biden war chest & GOTV operation, since she's his running mate. Nobody else would easily be able to access those dollars, and it takes BILLIONS to even have a shot at winning. SO. Is she a charismatic black hole? Yes. Is a Harris/OtherDem ticket still an uphill battle? Yes. But she's the only person who the donor class would accept as the ticket headliner, she's the only person who wouldn't have to waste time building out her campaign apparatus. She's the only compromise position that's realistically on the table. We're going to be lucky to get rid of Biden *at all*, we are not in a position to quibble over "Well I *would have* preferred \[insert Democratic governor here\]". I say this as a socialist. The realpolitik of this situation *sucks ass* but that's what it is. Call your elected officials and DEMAND they call for Biden to step down. EDIT: It might be easier to transfer funds to other candidates, than I thought. Certainly not an election finance lawyer. It it *could* be someone other than Kamala, I'd vastly prefer that.
Kamala has a significant edge in one scenario; Biden steps down from the presidency before the end of the month. This gets all the "woman president" muck out of the way and gives her a few months to demonstrate that she is capable of doing the job. Voting for Kamala in November while Biden is still President means she is an unknown. Voting for Kamala as the incumbent is a totally different story.
I agree with most of what you said except her being the only possible replacement. Most likely for them to pick sure, but I think there is only one good choice with a solid chance of winning, as no new leaders, centrist or progressive, have come forward since 2020 and every other centrist in 2020 including Kamala proved unpopular. Since the DNC will never let that happen, the best option is to let this blow over since it's really mostly a segment of Democrats who were ignoring this reality for the past 4 years anyways and focus on the anti-Trump campaign, since that's what really won last time and the anti-Trump sentiment has only gotten stronger with events since then. To the majority of Americans who disliked Biden and didn't think he was capable in the first place, this really changes nothing, if anything it might be an improvement if Biden's advisors are actually running things. Focus on the priority, preserving democracy.
Agreed. It was never a vote for Biden. It's always been a vote against Trump.
If Biden not only chose not to run for reelection, but actually decided to step down as President, then Kamela would suddenly become the first woman President in American history. This alone would give her a bit of a boost, plus it would give her several months to show the world that she can do the job well.
This is what I am curious of
Who has enthusiasm for Biden-Harris, but no enthusiam for Harris? We'd basically be electing her anyway.
The majority of our party wasn’t ever enthusiastic for Biden. They were just resigned to him and found him “acceptable”, despite his wins. Harris is part of the reason for the lack of enthusiasm. A new candidate would keep the loyal voters and envoke at least some enthusiasm and optimism in what many feel is now a hopeless race.
No one had enthusiasm for Biden in the first place, Biden was the first president to win while being down in the enthusiasm polling, it was always an anti-Trump vote, not a pro-Biden vote. Biden was more a "least offensive pick" being the only one that could actually challenge Sanders in the primary, Harris polled at 8% in her own state and dropped out, I have no idea what possessed Biden to pick her as VP, but she is deeply unpopular and has no positive impact on the ticket.
Exactly, and who has enthusiasm for Biden-Harris, period? There’s nowhere to go from here but up so let’s hope they pick an exciting VP for her
Because they follow the rules. In their rules, she would be next. Just like Hilary and her "it's my turn" strategy. If Biden continues he will lose to Trump. If Harris runs she will lose to Trump. Democrats love blaming their losses on the voters instead of their horrible strategies. When Biden loses it will be Ageism. When Harris loses it will be another bout of Sexism. I'll never vote for Trump but damn the DNC are losers.
How would you propose a brand new candidate pays for the supermassive ad campaign they’ll have to run in order to even have a remote chance? Biden can’t just give his $ millions in the war chest to whoever asks for it.
Honest question, why can't he?
Campaign finance laws
Just call it an official presidential act and move along
I do like that answer
No one likes her.
They are probably hoping there will be another Obama moment at the polls if they put her there, hanging the entire election on a single demographic. The biggest issue right now is the demotivation after the debate. People may have decided they aren’t voting for anyone. And that is not good for the Dems, they need record level turnout outs to win this one. My personal opinion is that if she was so very popular a choice, then why TF is everyone freaking out about Biden’s age? If she was that good a pick, no one would be worried. 🤷🏽♂️
They’re stuck. They have to get really creative to figure out a way to bypass the sitting VP and first black Asian woman VP at that. If they go with her, it’ll probably be a disaster, if they don’t, it’ll be a disaster. They have to figure out some convoluted way to pull this off. No way Harris goes willingly. They have to stage a new primary or something. A quick vote to show who the party voters really want.
The democratic party already gave us trump once, so maybe they are trying for a coy replay.
The dnc has their ways A swap would be good harris hasn't been hated by propaganda for years leading up to her chance
This is why replacing Biden is a huge risk. You actually care who the candidate is. So do lots of other people and you don’t all agree. We don’t have time to hold a real primary so whoever gets the nod will be illegitimate. Picking a candidate is an ordeal. How many people failed to show up in 2016 because they didn’t think HRC’s nomination was legit? Not saying I want to stick with Biden, but a switch is a massive risk that will almost certainly end in tears. We are in a REALLY bad spot.
If Biden chooses to retire, democrats should hold a pre-convention debate, let the American people see their options. Poll the populace, and then conduct an open convention. Harris may be the best, but she should earn that position. She has earned the position of vice president 2020-2024, but not presidential nominee. This does a disservice to everyone else.
There may be some financial reasons, donor money rules in particular, that may be complicating such a move, but I do believe the best is to give the people a chance to be heard. This will return energy to a seriously lethargic party.
Since voting for Biden is basically voting for Harris and the polls are still dropping there is really no need to put Harris front and center.
One of the advantages of replacing Biden is not having to defend any of the actions from his admin, like afghan withdrawal, Israel funding or inflation. Keeping Kamala is like the worst of both worlds.
Amen
No. Just no.
If Kamala is the Prez who will be the VP? they need to get someone with some charm to counteract
Replace the worst polling candidate with the second worst polling candidate all because Harris can’t just act like an adult and realize she isn’t popular
Wait until the convention to do anything. Biden steps down and a replacement is chosen. Hopefully they choose 8 more years with Whitmer. If it’s Kamala, get ready for Trump 2.0.
Don't they have to decide beforehand to do the early ohio nomination?
Yeah I personally can’t see the Democrats foregoing all the campaign money and the infrastructure the Biden-Harris ticket has accumulated. Plus Harris just doesn’t have the physical infirmity that will be the catalyst and driving force behind Joe dropping out. It’ll be Harris if Joe drops out, for good or for ill. The only way all these dem governors get a shot as a replacement candidate is if Harris lets them. And I honestly just don’t see her doing that.
They wouldn’t forego it. It would get rolled over by the Democratic Party to the new ticket decided at the convention.
If they do decide to replace Biden, Harris the LAST candidate we want
The elite don't give a shit what normal people want.
I don't think she'd do any better, nobody likes Harris
She'd likely do worse tbh.
yes
We’re royally fucked then because she’ll lose in probably even bigger of a Trump landslide than Biden. Everyone hates her guts
The internal polling that leaked yesterday says otherwise She isn't my top choice but handing her the reigns makes the most sense and probably causes the least amount of chaos within the party. Harris was elected to be the 1st in line if the president can't fulfill his duties. We are literally there right now I don't see how you pass over her without admitting she was never qualified to begin with, which Republicans would clobber us with in November Also good luck explaining that move to black women who are the most reliable democratic voting bloc in the country
Republicans are going to clobber us with all kinds of stupid bullshit no matter what. You don’t make decisions based on that. You make decisions based on what’s best. Nobody in the real world gives a flying fuck about Kamala Harris being passed over. They care about the intrigue of replacing Biden and who is going to be the best person to do that. Edited: clarity
I think a black woman VP being passed over might not play super well with some very dependable voters. I wish Kamala was better, but I wouldn’t be surprised if just the act of Biden stepping down and her giving a good acceptance speech caused a positive swing.
There are better black women that could be candidates for president. This isn't about Kamala being black. It's about her not being a very good candidate.
It's just, no one is excited for Harris. If Biden steps down people can rally behind someone new. Harris is not new...
There simply isn't a perfect candidate for everyone to rally behind Mayor Pete is gay and not popular with minorities Whitmer is a relative unknown on the national stage Newsome isn't popular in the Midwest and south If there was a person we could sub in that had none of the baggage I would line up behind them immediately. But there isn't, so I think going with the current VP (who is already on the ticket) makes the most sense
This seems like a problem of the left fracturing among themselves, like how the Toronto pride parade got ended early because of Palestine protesters, whereas the conservatives have no problem rallying behind Trump.
Pritzker? Just spitballing the one omission you had. I agree though there’s no cut and dry alternative
I would lump him in with Whitmer in the "relatively unknown" category. I know he's gov of Illinois but I had to look up his first name. Yes I'm an idiot, but I like to think I'm more dialed into national politics than the average American
she is qualified, the question is "is she popular enough" if she takes over she needs to be more authentic because ever time she speaks you can see her doing the math about what she is saying. the old way of being a politician is seen as being robotic. the trick nowadays is to be authentic have ups and downs that make you seem like a real person..... while not having negative media cling onto your downs and have them define you
Who is "everyone"? I keep seeing this being mentioned at how much she is hated. Why and by who? She may not be everyone's top choice but neither was Biden and he won. People out there are flying way to high on their dream scenario as if it would be that easy. Kamala, as the VP, is best suited imo.
People in this sub aren’t going to like anyone that can win. Biden beat Trump by being centrist enough that Republicans who didn’t like Trump could accept him. It’s not as exciting to us as someone more progressive, but centrism is the appropriate way to run for what is an anti-Trump coalition.
It is a "have my cake and eat it" situation. You all want Biden to drop out (which he should) but at the same time ignore the most logical and obvious choice because of some far fetched dream team you came up with that you believe crushes Trump.
Dumber. They’re both poison and everyone knows it, including the DNC
Biden needs to resign for this to work, she needs to have the gloves off the minute she takes office and wield what the Supreme Court has given The Executive branch. This will give her momentum going into the convention and energize the base. I
If Joe goes, Ill support any democrat PERIOD ! Time for individual biasis are over folks; It's democracy or KING TYRANT, no other contest counts.
God I hate being a Democrat. The other side is literally MTG, Matt Gaetz, Donald Trump, etc. and we can’t figure out how to beat them. Here’s some advice. Joe, Kamala, Hillary, are the worst picks you can make. The worst!!!! Jeff Jackson, Pete Buttigieg, a democrat governor are the no-brainers. Maybe the DNC could try what the voters actually want for once instead of being authoritarian just with more steps?
Gretchen Whitmer is my top pick, if nothing else she's the "Governor that beat maga" which is something no other candidate has going.
If they can blast her name for four months it could work. She needs name recognition and a STRONG VP
I don't know if Jeff Jackson would be a good pick solely because I don't think he is known. And his TikTok vote that he was kinda eviscerated on TikTok for. And I don't know his policies. But I do love the person (barring his vote on the ban)
Andy Beshear needs to be in the conversation. He's a popular Democrat governor in Kentucky of all places.
Exactly. He won in Kentucky. Kentucky!
He didn't just win, they really love him. There were signs for a Democrat for Governor in the most stuck up fuck you I got mine Republican neighborhoods. It was insane.
As a moderate, I’d totally vote for Jeff Jackson
Dude we're really going to have a 2016 repeat aren't we?
Equating Kamala to Hillary isn’t fair. Kamala needs to debate Trump prosecutor style.
Why are the Democrats so hell-bent on losing to trump, especially since they know what's at stake
Why are you all so confident that Kamala would lose? I've been listening to her debate against Pence, she is articulate and confident. Plus, as other people have said, she would get to keep the campaign donations, instead of starting over. Her name is nationally recognized as the VP and she could pick Pete Buttigieg as her running mate, the first gay VP ever. Those two would run laps around Trump and who ever his lame VP pick is. So I ask again, why not Kamala?
She has a reputation of not reading daily debriefs. She had one job to deal with in the border and failed. The heels up stigma is still with her too.
Question: Does anyone know if the ticket could as easily keep its current war chest if Kamala stayed on as the VP nominee and someone else was put at the top of the ticket?
Most likely scenario if Biden decides to stop his run for reelection is that his campaign would donate most of its funds to the National Democratic Party, who would then donate some/most/all of the funds to campaign of whomever gets the nomination. The Biden campaign could also donate some/all funds to a charity or a super pac. It wouldn’t be a surprise if at least some of its funds go to a charity - specifically one based on raising funds for a Biden Presidential Library.
This country is so fucked.
They need to do this by the electoral map and Harris needs to realize that. Whitmer and Shapiro are Dem governors who won their swing states by 10+ points. If we can get MI and PA in the bag we are golden.
The only candidate should be Whitmer. She would win all the Dem safe states Biden would win, would easily win Michigan, and most likely win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania state being a well liked rust belt governor. That right there is enough to win the election.
For all her issues, Harris has been at her best when grilling people trying to bullshit her (Barr, Kavanaugh, Pence) The prosecutor (Harris) facing the criminal (Trump) is a narrative that would absolutely get eyeballs. To quote the godfather: *I'm talking about a dishonest man - a crooked man who got mixed up in the rackets and got what was coming to him. That's a terrific story.*
Harris would lose to Trump biggly.
Whitmer, MI / Shapiro PA Governors from 2 swing states who both won election / reelection with decent margins. Both good campaigners, speakers and debaters.
Yeah right.
What kills me is everyone was happy with the general performance of the current government and given a chance to continue that there's this sudden panic and armchair diagnosis of dementia. Then when given the chance to pick the person presumably doing all the actual work you scream no and start trying to remember old anti-Harris talking points. No one will be good enough for you because you've been manipulated as much as a Fox News viewer but you don't know it.
Interesting how quickly we go from ‘Anyone but Biden’ to doomsaying about Harris.
Anyone but Biden Oh and Harris because she's boring Oh and mayor Pete because he's gay Oh and Whitmer because she's unknown Oh and Newsom because he's from California But like I said, anyone but Biden....
The problem is this half-witted idea that going with someone else can be painless, and they think they can just install Harris without issue. It is going to be painful regardless, so have an open convention and poll people. The convention itself will get people interested and excited, and get media coverage that is exceptionally hard to get right now. Harris can throw her hat in the ring.
Exactly. They fear discord (i.e., the way parties nominated candidates for decades) more than they fear losing.
Whoever these brilliant “advisors” are might as well just start printing the Trump Inaugural Invitations now. They are *absolutely* delusional!
Am I insane for having no idea why Harris is so unpopular? The most commonly cited reasons are either a niche thing that only progressives care about (her history as AG), or just vague reasons about “identity politics”?
Ya, her record as AG, her performance and answers in dem debates, overall smugness and lack of warmth and honesty. You can tell she is playing a part and isn't exactly good at it IMO. Then look at Trump. He's exactly who he is which I think resonates with people even though it's not good IMO. But what do I know
> smugness and lack of warmth and honesty > Then look at Trump My brother in Christ I am losing my mind here
> In a Reuters/Ipsos poll published Tuesday, Harris trailed Trump by one percentage point at 42% to 43%, a difference that was well within the poll's 3.5 percentage point margin of error, a showing statistically just as strong as Biden's. And this is before she’s even tried. Maybe she’s not so unpopular, just not known to the people yet.
We’re fucked
There’s 4 months left… she’s really the only other option. Her name is already on ballots and bumper stickers, and she’d inherit the campaign donations. She’s female which aligns with the top issue driving people to the polls (women’s right). Going with someone else will disengage her demographic. Her VP can be a white male diversity pick.
> she’d inherit the campaign donations If Biden withdraws, FEC rules allow him to transfer all his donations to the party, which could then distribute them to whichever candidate secures the nomination.
Harris would not be my choice... Why is the DNC so predictable and stupid? She's unpopular. She barely registered when she ran in the the primary. Why on earth would you make her the de facto candidate when democracy is literally on the line? Whitmer, Mayor Pete, Newsom. Literally anyone else with positive recognition that's under 60 will win in a landslide. My choice would be Whitmer. Have someone familiar with the troubles of the middle of this country in charge for a change.
What a sad decision. What would you like for lunch, a shit sandwich or a shit salad?
There are still a lot of independents that are on the fence between Biden and Trump, somehow, and I think it's pretty obvious that anyone who's even considering voting for Donald Trump would never vote for a woman, let alone a woman of color. I understand that I am voting for Kamala Harris with my vote for Joe Biden, and i would support and vote for her. But it's a guaranteed loss in this political environment, especially this late in the election year. The time to replace Biden with Harris would have been about a year ago. We're well into the race now, so whether you like Biden or not, you're going to have to choose between the old white guy and the old white fascist felon rapist.
I'm not against a woman running for president but if Harris takes Biden's place she'll lose like Hilary Clinton did Both of them don't have the likeability. Obama won on likeability. It would have to be someone completely different outside the current administration if the Dems decide to change the ticket.
No
Why does Biden need to drop out ? Why can’t he run on the strength of his policies over the last 4 years and replace Harris with a stronger VP candidate like Newsom ?
Because people vote for confidence, not policy.
Not a Harris fan, but she's an improvement. With a decent VP pick, if she has any fight in her she could win.
One would hope the DNC would have learned a lesson the last time they ran a controversial candidate for President. She has way too much baggage.
From the jaws of defeat into another jaws of defeat... At this point, it seems the DNC is in cahoots with 'RumpCo...
tin foil hat theory: Biden's camp is leaking this out so that people hope he stays in the race
Haha, no. She really isn’t.
She has really not been given a chance to shine and just seems like a token for the admin to use during 2020. I really don't know if she even cares, or her heart is in it, but I don't think she's a top choice other than just being a logical successor based on her position as VP.
That would be a disaster. You would be handing the election to Trump lol
Eventually I’d like to see a female POTUS but let’s not take unnecessary risks this time around
Why? She has no chance, no one is getting excited at the prospect of president Harris, it would be better to leave Biden in, he might have a chance, Harris has none
Come on Dems! What the hell is going on? We have no chance against Humpty Trumpty with this train of thought. We need to get serious and stop fucking around.
NO SHE ISN'T. Wtf is this?
Bernie would win.
I would sure vote for him but it wouldn't make sense to nominate someone even older than Biden.
She’s a less likable Hillary Clinton. Yeah that’ll go great.
Flip President and VP as needed: Whitmer / Buttigieg Whitmer / Warnock Harris / Whitmer Whitmer / Raskin Whitmer / Mark Kelly Whitmer / Ossofff I think you're getting from here that I'm a fan of Whitmer. But I just think she is our best shot at winning against Trump as well. There are some other names I mentioned here that I'm not hearing mentioned as often and I'm not sure why.
I mean.... Duh?
Just like Hillary Clinton all the sexist would vote for Trump. It’s a terrible idea.
Dems need to realize the base is not enough to win. They need the middle. Put up a smart candidate with some charisma. Do not give us another Walter Mondale or Michael Dukakis or Al Gore or Hilary Clinton. Kamala is the imperfect mix of the last two. Insufferably arrogant.
That would be a complete disaster.
I work with a number of lifelong republican voters who swear they wont vote for Trump this time around. However they cant' fathom Kamala in office. I prod a bit and ask why... they never have a great answer. Its always something like "I just don't think she's up to the job". They can never elaborate on that or tell me what makes them feel that way. I mean... I suspect I know at least one or two reasons why they feel this but we all know they wont say it out loud.
So typical Republicans that like most Republicans who still believe that Obama was neither born in Hawaii or Christan and they can't put their finger on why Harris shouldn't get their vote.
Good way to make sure we lose democracy forever Now is not the time for this
A friend of mine from Kentucky mentioned Andy Beshear. While he doesn’t have strong name recognition, he won governor in a red state TWICE. I’m not sure how I feel about that scenario but it sort of makes sense. He can win over red state voters.
Talk about out of the frying pan, into the fire.
This was the plan along. They could put Casey Anthony against Trump and even she’d win.
I don't know anyone who likes her or thinks she would be a good president. So many other better choices.
Disastrous choice. I hope we’re not dumb enough to go that route.
And she'll lose America is not ready for an African American woman President I'd love to see it happen but I know my countrymen
I’m just going to say it: John Stewart. Be the hero we need, sir.
If you want to lose, there is no better plan.
Oh God, why? Is Jerry Springer’s mistress unavailable?
I just heard of her and already a fan. Whitmer for prez24
The Dems must start bringing a gun to a gunfight, not a feather duster.
I guess if you want the candidate that was made VP only because she is African American and a woman with a shoddy record… Auto win for Republicans.