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And republicans will instate articles of impeachment close to the convention for maximum chaos.
Force everyone to either.. come to Biden’s defense and tie themselves to him… or damage Biden irrecoverably at a point where it is to later to choose another path.
It’s delusional to think Biden can easily win this. Look at the polling and his popularity. The only thing he has going for him is an extreme distaste for Trump. And that’s not enough to win. Ask Hillary.
> Trump is going to use "your own party doesn't even want you. they begged you to step down because they know your mental state has declined so much" over and over.
He will be right.
That can all be true, but that sure didn't stop Biden following him on immigration policy, the Iran deal, the Abraham accords, Cuba policy and China tariffs did it?
Biden is historically unpopular even before he shat the bed at the debate *he asked for*, and for him to stay in at a time like this is nothing but the temper-tantrum of a snot-nosed brat. Nothing more. Bidenites are gambling the future of American democracy on a man who can’t function after 4pm.
This is the key! He and his team showed they are not viewing this objectively by challenging Trump to a debate. They either knew he would be this bad and decided to do it anyway, or didn’t know and I don’t know which is worse.
And the later they will unleash Hillary’s old “3am call” ads. Except Hillary’s argument was “Obama is too inexperienced” and that just didn’t seem like much of an issue. In this case, I don’t know who answers the phone, Full throated joint session speech Biden, just has a cold Biden, zonked out because he worked to hard earlier in the day Biden, worn out debate Biden (aka it was just a reaction to cough syrup Biden) etc.
To the extent that the 3am question is a valid question, Biden has a real problem. And a lot of people (judging from back when Hillary asked it) place a lot of importance on the 3am answer.
Yeah, and who’s fault is that? The overreaction from the media (to play into Trump’s hand) and places like this sub, who have an unrealistic fantasy that some outsider is going to rise to prominence and go from unknown to president in a few months.
It wasn't an overreaction. I have friends (not a flex) in the political space who all agree that when you ask, "What's the worst thing that could happen?", this was the worst. Biden played into one of Trump's many narratives about him.
He was so bad, put one of them, that it overshadowed the fact that Trump was awful too. Biden will be lucky if Trump agrees to debate him again. I wouldn't.
> He was so bad, put one of them, that it overshadowed the fact that Trump was awful too. Biden will be lucky if Trump agrees to debate him again. I wouldn't.
Why not? There is a high probability that Biden will look even worse a next time.
It wasn’t the media. I haven’t watched TV through my fingers since I was a child, but I wanted to as soon as Biden started speaking. You can’t simultaneously acknowledge the stakes of the election and deny the debate was a horror show.
He could have shown that his performance was an aberration, but instead he and his campaign opted for denial (suggesting the performance is normal) and an announcement that he wouldn’t campaign so hard (despite his already relaxed schedule).
Actually, he literally legally does. The fallout from everyone freaking out in 2016 about super delegates potentially being able to throw the primary to Clinton, even if Bernie won all the other delegates, led to a reorganisation of how delegates are awarded and their legal obligations.
Currently, delegates are legally obligated to vote for Biden because he won every primary. The party has no legal means of influencing their vote.
Biden has to be convinced to step down, or he's the nominee and literally no one can do anything about it.
The super delegates were never quite that powerful. They held about 20% of the vote. They also tended to switch sides if the popular vote went opposite to the way they had pledged. In 2008 Hillary Clinton had a big lead in super delegates but they eventually switched sides when it was clear that Obama had won the states.
The DNC didn't have the power to force anyone to run who didn't want to run. It's not a strong organization. And the potentially strong candidates probably wouldn't have wanted to run against an incumbent even with strong urging. Part of the problem here is that Biden's staffers, aides, and such have arguably been hiding just how bad he's gotten, if it weren't for that, it would have been easier to make the argument against Biden earlier, but the DNC may simply not have known how bad things are due to how secretive Bidenworld has been with this stuff
Yet another reason for Biden to drop out. Increasingly their only defense is “incumbent advantage” but incumbent advantage means nothing when your approval rating is at 36% and dropping. This should be the easiest decision for the democrats. It’s time to stop dragging this out and force Biden out.
Democrats need to start acting a bit like Republicans here. They’re too afraid of confrontation but now’s the time to get our shit together and confront Biden. Too much is at stake and he simple cannot overcome this level of bad press and polling. A candidate half his age would struggle. But Biden cant be left to talk without a teleprompter, can’t be trusted to debate, can’t interview without pre approved questions and is unable to campaign at the level we need him to. So why are they so adamant he can do this? This last week proved he can’t.
Good news for the DNC. Soon they'll be able to swap out the "help us retake the SCOTUS!" fundraising emails that are old and dated now the fascist majority is locked in for a generation with snazzy new "help us stop the GOP from calling a constitutional convention!" messages.
The way to avoid this if Biden won’t step down isn’t to constantly publish articles on him losing but to highlight things like project 2025. Is Biden too old? Fuck yes, but if he’s not going to step down, then roasting him in the media isn’t going to help. We need to focus on the other side of the aisle and their insane agenda. Go look at other media outlets and tell me how many Biden is old stories you see versus project 2025 or articles talking about Trump’s obvious insanity or the crazy Supreme Court rulings.
I hope some congresspeople have the stones to fight back against this. We're watching this man run the party into the ground in real time.
"There was a primary! If you didn't like me then you should've voted me out!"
Maybe if you took live questions from reporters like, ever, more voters would be aware of your condition. Fair or not, the *majority* of Americans think you are too old to have the mental capacity to run the country. You had a chance to steady the ship, and you failed. Listen to voters, and please step aside.
The whole “there was a primary” line of reasoning needs to go away. In many states he was the only candidate allowed on ballots and in Florida they canceled it all together.
To be fair, Biden's advisors were doing a heck of a job keeping all of this under-wraps. That was partially the 2020 campaign plan: towards the end they just kept Biden out of the spotlight and let Trump ruin it for himself. Now they can't do that and people are panicking because they realized the one trick Biden did to actually win a Presidency is dead in the water and his Plan B is "lose by a landslide because I'm too inept and old to fix this."
The problem with non-committed is it doesn't tell you anything specific about the voters. At the time of the primary, non-committed meant you were protesting Biden for the war in Gaza but still had a strong likelihood of supporting him in the general election. How do we know who voted non-committed because of Gaza or because they wanted a candidate other than Biden?
Dems are stupidly spending three weeks arguing about the unfit-ness of their candidate instead of talking about the "black jobs" comment and the "hispanic jobs" comment and the chipping away at abortion rights across the nation and about all of TRUMPS lapses of memory and about all of the huge corporate donations from climate destroyers to Trump.
What part do you not understand? Dems are going to vote for Biden if they vote. Independents are not going to vote for Biden. The only way Biden wins this election is with massive voter turnout and (not or) some help from the independents/undecideds. Do you really think Biden is capable of inspiring massive voter turnout? He is going to lose and he is going to take the House , the senate, state elections, and a SCOTUS appointment or two with him. This is not business as usual, Biden fucked over the voters by hiding his mental decline. His Legacy is already ruined it will only get worse if he doesn't drop out.
I didn't say that Biden should stay in the race. But instead of disparaging their current candidate, and talking about how un-electable most of the other Dem choices are, immediately following the debate we should have be pointing out every Trump lie, continuing to talk about loss of rights all over the country, discussing the horrible pandemic economy that was handed to Biden, reminding voters how Obama cleaned up the Bush/Cheney economy, discussing the states that are denying summer lunches to kids, and not letting Trump get away with saying that he cleaned up the border. He didn't , not even close. And here we sit, letting the swing-state voters sit back and watch us argue incessantly about which of our possible candidates is the worst.
It’s what democrats do best. We deserved trump for how they attacked Clinton and the blame of “it’s all Biden’s fault” is laughable. Everyone supported him until the debate. Maybe it changed but the vast vast majority of the party still support him.
But sure let’s keep burying a guy we supposedly like just because.
Biden will win. Americans know a fascist dicktater when they see one. They came out in record numbers to squash the orange dildo in 2020, and I think even more will this time. Including Republicans that are sick of this shit. Project2025 is really waking people up to this election cycle. And the people that have been paying closer attention this whole time will vote for Biden on his death bed. I will gladly send Joe to that glorious 2nd term in the sky if it means keeping my damn country.
Joe Biden has the lowest approval ratings of any all time in 2024, is losing the young votes to trump, and is polling historically the lowest with African Americans
What kind of kool-aid are the Americans drinking?
Trump is an all out stark raving mad lunatic, and you all are OK with that, but you want Biden gone? Biden is 81 years old. Of course he's going to have senior moments and maybe show some fatigue. So what? Rather a president that needs some breaks than one that is going to turn the US into a single party Christo-Fascist state! The GOP are currently the Christian equivalent of Hamas. Give your heads a collective shake.
Some people seem to have trouble separating or distinguishing between two important questions.
One question is, will you vote for the Democratic nominee, presumably Joe Biden?
Another question is, do you think Joe Biden will defeat Donald Trump in the election?
The people who are saying they'd like Biden gone are not saying this because of question one, but because of question two. They fear that if Biden is the nominee, he is going to lose. They see the poll numbers that give Trump a strong chance to win the popular vote for the first time ever, while to prevail in the electoral college Biden would need to be leading Trump by the same margin. And they just do not see the path for an 81 year old man who sometimes struggles to articulate his thoughts to move the margins by 5-10%.
Forget about the polls they are just snapshots! Polls had the the far right in France and the UK winning and what happened they both lost so enough about the polls
That’s not what changed in France. What changed in France was that Macron saw the writing on the wall and made a dramatic gambit to avoid a bleak outcome.
Specifically, they reached an arrangement with a coalition of liberal parties that ultimately led to many candidates leaving the race, to consolidate the opposition to the far right.
The lesson learned from France should not be ‘do nothing and hope the polls are wrong’, that’s not what happened and it’s not wise even if it were.
As for the UK, polls absolutely did not have the Tories winning. This election was expected to be a bloodbath from the beginning.
We’re aware of the danger of Trump. The problem is Biden needs the votes of independents and undecideds. He’s lost them for good in the span of a week. If the dems put a younger candidate forward, those who hate that both the current candidates are geriatrics would have a reason to vote for the new Dem.
Exactly. I will vote to get rid of Trump, but I want a candidate who can keep him in Mar-a-Lago and out of the White House. Biden is guaranteeing us another Trump "administration" (as though Trump could administer anything) by staying in the race.
>Biden is 81 years old. Of course he's going to have senior moments and maybe show some fatigue. So what?
Some people actually believe that having one of the most influential jobs in the World shouldn't be held by someone who's shown to have senior moments. Trump is trump, that's not changing. Democrats *could* get a young aggressive candidate that galvanizes young voters as well as the independent/moderates that will probably sit this one out.
But it IS The Democratic Party, so I'm convinced they'll keep the status quo and by Midnight of the election, Trump will have won.
I’ll try. Right now we are talking about Biden the candidate. He has never been a great political candidate: not the best speaker, has a stutter, makes off the cuff comments that aren’t great. Biden the president however has been one of the most effective presidents in the last 30 years. Maybe some of that is the team he put around him. At the end of the day I am voting for a president not a debater or a public speaker. The DNC needs to focus on the action, track record, and plans of Biden and not this organizational chaos.
I agree with what you stated, but that doesn't mean undecided voters see things the same way. Most Democrats are going to vote for Biden at the end of the day to stop Trump. But Biden needs more than just Democrats and he is currently losing to Trump because he has lost those votes to Trump, to third parties, or to apathy.
It’s because the Americans that will decide the future of the country don’t see it like you. They see gas prices, food prices, and short clips of Biden looking 120 years old and believe “it can’t happen here.”
So many democrats see what the average American sees and believe he’s toast. I’m a plugged in Democrat and I had to stop watching the debate after a few minutes. We’re obsessed with getting him replaced because we know without a doubt he cannot win.
It's not pundit brain, it's fear and denial. If they admit Trump is likely to win against Biden, everything we've been worried about—Project 2025, gutting climate action, a conservative Supreme Court for the next fifty years—all of that becomes much more real, less hypothetical. They simply can't handle it.
Instead of recognizing the situation and organizing to fight *harder* to make sure it doesn't happen, they're pouting in the corner repeating "This is not happening" over and over again. It's a childish rejection of reality. That sounds harsh, but at this point I'm all out of fucks to give.
lol Biden beat Trump by less than 50,000 votes in swing states to win through the Electoral College, but go off on how Biden is going to "crush" a candidate he's currently polling behind, when in 2020 he was already in the lead.
If anyone is going to crush anyone, it’ll be Trump crushing the eventual Democrat. Biden or another Dem will not crush Trump - the Democrats need a 3-4% win in the popular vote to win the electoral college, and Biden is currently down by about 6% in an average of polls.
Edit: Sorry, down 3-5% depending on whether 3rd parties and independents are included. Don’t want to be inaccurate.
[Link](https://www.realclearpolitics.com)
Those the same polls that predicted the overwhelming "red wave" in 2022?
Political polling is almost useless nowadays. Biden beat trump before, he certainly can do it again. They were both old as hell last time around too
*shrugs* You don’t have to believe them. But I think that dismissing them, especially after Biden laid a steaming hot turd on stage at the debate to justify all the right has been saying about him being senile for 4 years, is dangerous. And yes, people say debates don’t matter. But what if the debate performance was monumentally, historically bad? 50+ million people watched it. Last election had what, about 160 million votes cast? So almost a third of the number that voted last time watched Biden lay an egg. Doesn’t inspire confidence from me.
I hear you, but there's a long stretch before November. We'll see what happens in the future.
I also just don't think there are truly that many people sitting on the fence that could vote Biden or Trump.
I think it's more likely that people are mostly decided on who they want, but they're not decided on if they will vote or not. I think a lot of democrats that did sit on the bench for HRC still recognize the shit sandwich they got because of that, and so even if Biden is a drooling mushmouth, they'll still show up and do the thing for him - over the abhorrent asshole that is Trump.
It’s worse than that. New poll today says Trumps approval rating is now positive at 51%
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/07/trump-presidency-viewed-more-favorably-poll-finds/74292329007/
People really struggle to realize they’re voting for an administration. A cabinet full of qualified professionals. No president has the necessary knowledge to run this country, they are speaking and acting on behalf of their cabinet.
Vote for the administration filled with qualified and deserving individuals not cronies and idiots
> People really struggle to realize they’re voting for an administration.
Democrats understand this. Undecided voters are not prioritizing that message. Saying it doesn't matter if our candidate is too old because he has a great team to manage him isn't going to win those voters back.
I mean, even without the time zones emergencies are illegal the other 18 hours a day.
Also fun fact with sun downing is the windows of lucidity shrink with time. By November they’re probably cutting those hours back.
"We"? As is the tuned-in folks on a politics subreddit? That was never in question. Biden doesn't need "us". He needs the tuned-out voters, and a lot of them at that. And he has shown he has no ability to win their votes.
This. 100% this. This will play out very similar to Trump vs Hillary, albeit for somewhat different reasons. And every day they delay on a new candidate is one less day that person will have to drum up the type of support they will need.
Democrats regularly insult gen z, calling them Hamas supporters, antisemites, say they're stupid, unreliable, and that leftist politics are irrelevant. They then turn around and simply expect their votes because the other option is worse.
We give the generation with the least to lose, and the most physically able to survive the fascist policies being pushed by the right, a party of bigots or a party of open minded people that seemingly only despise bigots, leftists, and youth. We then tell them they need to vote for the people showing disdain for them in order to save the country they openly hate on and blame for many of the world's problems, including what they believe to be a genocide in Gaza.
I feel like I'm going crazy because I can't understand how people think this is a winning strategy. I don't expect them to vote for Trump, although the Democrats losing support among youth (and black and Latino) voters should be raising alarms.
It’s not a winning strategy. This chaos, just like 2016, is a stark reminder for progressives that a huge percentage of Democrats are as hostile towards us as Republicans. Just look at how condescending the comments in support of Biden are in the last few days.
By the way, I’m not even Gen Z, I just have eyes and understand how to read polls. The Biden camp are the ones tearing the party apart. The Biden camp are the children in the room, threatening to take the ball home with them if they don’t like the ref’s call. The Biden camp are unwilling to listen to reason or data, in favor of blind hope. If we lose this election, it is the fault of the Biden camp.
You mean the people literally telling us they don't want to vote for Biden? You just expect them to do it anyway? It's 2016 all over again, except this time we know better but are just going to cover our eyes and ear and hope things turn out better.
I mean, I don't want to vote for Biden either. But I will if he's the option against Trump.
I didn't want to vote for him in 2020 either, or Clinton in 2016. But I did because Trump would have been (in 2020) and was (in 2016) worse.
At some point, the whole "lesser of two evils" thing runs its course and stops working. It was never a viable long-term strategy. At some point you simply have to offer voters something to vote *for*. The Republican Party is where it is today—ready to assume control over all three branches of the government, potentially for a very long time—because it learned to listen to its voters, however misguided they are. Evangelicals used to sit out elections before the 1970s. Now look where we are.
The future I want to live in is the one in which Republicans impotently lament the fact that the Democratic Party decided to start catering to this country's massive disenchanted left wing.
I absolutely agree with you. But it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting against a fascist regime ready to make sure elections never happen again, and until major changes are made to the election system in the US, the Dems are the only sane option. 3rd party isn't viable, neither is not voting.
That is what 75% of those committed to voting for Biden say. That is damning because we don't want him, we just Don't want Trump. Running anyone else would be better because we don't have the Biden baggage that is building up the longer this goes on. Different problems, a very hard fight, but at least gives us a Change to win. Biden is a guaranteed loss.
> If we vote, Axelrod will be fucking wrong. Vote! Don't miss this election.
Democrats voting Biden won't be enough for Biden to beat Trump. Trump is going to win amnyway. Biden already lost swing states and even some blue states.
Of course he didn't "lose" since the election hasn't taken place, but Biden was already polling 3 points ahead of Trump at this time during 2020 and right now he's behind like 5 and that's being generous. An incumbent trailing his opponent is a really bad sign.
Forget it. His letter to lawmakers that was released today sounds JUST like one of Trump’s Truth Social posts. This fucking killed him, I have NO idea what he was thinking or what his staff was thinking by writing that. Humiliating
Most of this sub will all vote for Biden. It won’t be enough. He won’t have enough support.
My advice, vote and encourage everyone you know to vote, but also mentally prepare. I give it an 80% chance that Biden loses this election.
As a blue centrist. No. If you want our vote, earn it. If you want Trump, keep ignoring us. Many people I spoke to over the holiday weekend, are not voting if Biden stays in.
One is dead set that Biden will drop out, and refused to entertain the idea that he stays in.
These are people that voted Obama into the Whitehouse, and came back for Biden.
> No. If you want our vote, earn it
Yikes, you're what's wrong with America and why 2016 happened. Vote blue no matter what or what happened in 2016-2020 is going to be a fever dream compared to what's coming up.
Hence why I'm centrist blue. I value who I give my vote to. So do the people who also sat out in 2016.
We are not the problem. We do not just blindly give our votes out.
If you want our vote, earn it.
> We are not the problem. We do not just blindly give our votes out.
This is the most ignorant statement I've ever read.
So you value who you give your vote to but you will actively not vote for someone out of spite which will inevitably guarantee Trump a win in November?
Sitting on your high horse and watching the world burn because you don't like Biden is the most selfish bullshit reason you could have to subliminally say you don't mind Donald Trump ruining the country.
I don't think you understand. We don't sit on our "high horse". This is literally just being normal. If people stopped just handing their votes to the first person with a (D) or (R) that they give you, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
If having basic standards is now controversial, then I don't want to participate. Plain as that.
So many of the people here are mystified by the idea of a bad candidate that is underwater on favourability earning a vote rather than just being entitled to it because Trump is their opponent. Completely unable to understand that non-party die hards want something to vote *for*. All this "I would vote for Biden in a coma / Biden's corpse / a brick," is a horrible endorsement for their candidate because it shows they have rock bottom standards for a candidate. What non blue MAGA sees is "Vote for our 2/10! The other guy's 1/10! What do you mean you want a 5/10 minimum? We're not doing that! Thanks for making us lose!"
If Biden drops out, I'll gladly vote for a real candidate.
Don't blame the bystanders for not bailing out the ship you put holes in. If you truly didn't want Trump, you wouldn't stick with Biden.
That's on you.
I'll vote for a wet, chunky fart over Trump. I'll vote for a 95 year old man who will predictably die on day 0 of his 2nd term against Trump. I don't give a fuck who the candidate is as long as it's not Trump. If the DNC wanted to put someone else in place, that's who I'm voting for. For now, it's Biden. This isn't a game. People's rights will be taken away even more so.
I don't even know why I'm talking to you - you're an Adjective-Noun-Number which means you're 95% an astroturfer, but for those that are reading these comments, please swallow your pride and vote.
>please swallow your pride and vote.
I mean, if that's the campaign you're running on, you can't be surprised when people don't want to vote for you. Obama didn't have this problem in 2008 and 2012. He's starting to look more & more like an anomaly in the DNC Presidential books and that's NOT good.
You'll be saying this exact same thing if Biden drops out and Harris steps in. Let's be real. You and those like you would rather watch things go to hell and be right than to protect democracy. I think Biden should step down but I also think if he doesn't, then we vote for the idiot to give us a fighting chance for 2028 to get a candidate we can feel proud to want. Think of the bigger picture
Let's be real, if Harris ran, I'd vote for her. If Biden continues, and I just hand him my vote again, the main Democrats will learn nothing, and we will have Biden v Trump 2.0 replacements in 2028. Because we all know, Trump's pick will be auto railroaded through the RNC.
Everyone I know (besides the one who "knows" Biden will drop out) thinks this way.
We were made this same promise in 2020, vote Biden and we'll get a real candidate for 2024, and now it's 2024 and nothing changed.
Truthfully, I thought Trump would be shuffled off the mortal coil due to his poor health by now and all the MAGAts would wake up but I was wrong on both counts and now p2025 is in full swing
Blame the DNC. Why is it one person’s responsibility to save the country when the system fucks us over anyway? Biden was supposed to be a one term president. Now he’s acting like Trump.
And what would you have us do? We’ve told the DNC multiple times that their candidates are shit. We can’t rely on republicans to ditch the dictator in chief. I’ll vote for Biden if he stays in, but he’s going to lose now. Guaranteed. So you can act like you’re on a moral high ground all you like, it won’t change the minds of the voters Biden needs.
As far as I’m concerned, we deserve Trump.
You don’t think Biden sounds EXACTLY like Trump in his letter? That letter just fucking killed him, I’m sorry. Talking about how all the polls are fake, how he’ll obliterate anyone who dares challenge him at the convention, how he’s the only one who matters, etc. It’s an atrocious look and he’s pissing even more Dem politicians and lawmakers off now than he already has. They need to get him the fuck out of here ASAP before he ruins EVERYTHING for the party
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Every day that Biden stays in inches us closer to the end of our democracy. The damage is irreversible at this point and Biden’s going to lose bigly. We’re fucked.
Biden won the election by 4-5 points in 2020 and barely won a bunch of swing states. He's consistently losing in all swing states now within the margin of error.
Republicans have the advantage because of the electoral college. Biden needs to be up to have a shot.
Yeah he was bro.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
Scroll down in the polls to prior to June 25. He was behind in both general and swing state polls.
You are denying reality.
Someone who knows about Hasan Piker but doesn’t know about Destiny? Interesting. But he’s a debater on Kick who’s subreddit seems to talk about Hasan a bit too much.
Just the fact that it was going to be competitive(before the trainwreck debate) should have been a huge red flag for you about Biden being our nominee. There is no excuse for us not putting forth a candidate that will crush Trump. Didn't look good for Biden before the debate and he's absolute toast now.
Losing by the margin of error still means it's far more likely than not that you're behind. Just that there is less than a 90% chance (usually it's 99%) that trump is ahead. Still a very high chance.
Biden is [losing](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1dwduf9/biden_rejects_independent_medical_evaluation_in/lbtxyv2/) the Electoral College.
> Biden was ahead by a fair margin in popular vote polling averages (more than Hillary was in 2016) and ended up with a noticeably smaller margin (538's popular vote average was +8 Biden and the final result was around +4.5 Biden, in 2016 Hillary was at +4 and actually got +2).
If you go on RCP, you’ll see polls from NYT/Sienna, WSJ, Harris, and CNN that were released in the past few days showing as much. You’ll also see the recent Bloomberg polls showing Biden losing Arizona and Nevada by six or seven points. The Harris poll showed that most respondents had followed the debate and that 40% had said that it made them less likely to vote for Biden, similar numbers said it made them more likely to vote Trump.
All these polls have shown movement in the same direction. Just hand waving the existential threat of a landslide loss as ‘fake news’ isn’t going to help.
I am NOT voting for Biden or Trump.
Good luck with your agendas without our support. You can thank Biden, Kamala, and the DNC for their hubris when it’s all falling apart. We’re not at fault because we refuse to accept shit candidates anymore. What’s the point of keepig the status quo going when it’s like this every cycle?
Either Biden steps down, or the DNC loses many of us forever. Sick of this “it’s my turn” bullshit. Do what’s right for America, step aside Joe.
Maga will push a federal ban on abortion. Sixteen people Trump’s administration wrote Project 2025. Trump has been espousing Project 2025’s talking points for well over 2 yrs at his rallies.
This is the reality you deserve when you bury your head in the sand.
If Biden had slayed drumpy in the first debate then Shitzhispants wouldn't attend the second one closer to the vote. Did Chetto Mussolini dodge reporters recently, are there more & worse crimes being unearthed in the next three months ...
Axelrod helped to destroy the Democratic party https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/the-decimation-of-the-democratic-party-visualized/
Trump could, at the rate this is going.
[Electoral College map](https://www.270towin.com)
Play with this a little - give Trump all the swing states plus New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota and New Hampshire. Maybe the couple house districts in Nebraska and Maine for good measure. Number goes past 350 real easy. Anything over 300 these days is a pretty good win, 350 would definitely be an electoral college landslide.
A lot of people say he should step aside. None of those people ever have an answer for who would be a better choice.
Shut the fuck up unless you have an alternative.
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Not me; I want Trump to step down. He’s a convicted felon, a bigot, a liar and a sexual pervert.
Can we get both?
Both can be true at the same time.
Yes, they can, but it’s hardly a balanced scale. And Joe is CURRENTLY DOING THE JOB.
And republicans will instate articles of impeachment close to the convention for maximum chaos. Force everyone to either.. come to Biden’s defense and tie themselves to him… or damage Biden irrecoverably at a point where it is to later to choose another path.
> come to Biden’s defense and tie themselves to him Hopefully, because that would mean we easily win the election
It’s delusional to think Biden can easily win this. Look at the polling and his popularity. The only thing he has going for him is an extreme distaste for Trump. And that’s not enough to win. Ask Hillary.
> Trump is going to use "your own party doesn't even want you. they begged you to step down because they know your mental state has declined so much" over and over. He will be right.
Trump has never been right. Selfish, cruel, greedy, no empathy, no compassion. Sick, psychotic a hole
That can all be true, but that sure didn't stop Biden following him on immigration policy, the Iran deal, the Abraham accords, Cuba policy and China tariffs did it?
He absolutely will be correct, unfortunately.
Democrats are straight-up tanking this election in record time, if it wasn't at the cost of so many's individual freedoms it would be hilarious.
Registered Democrat since 2000: First time?
Biden is historically unpopular even before he shat the bed at the debate *he asked for*, and for him to stay in at a time like this is nothing but the temper-tantrum of a snot-nosed brat. Nothing more. Bidenites are gambling the future of American democracy on a man who can’t function after 4pm.
This is the key! He and his team showed they are not viewing this objectively by challenging Trump to a debate. They either knew he would be this bad and decided to do it anyway, or didn’t know and I don’t know which is worse.
And the later they will unleash Hillary’s old “3am call” ads. Except Hillary’s argument was “Obama is too inexperienced” and that just didn’t seem like much of an issue. In this case, I don’t know who answers the phone, Full throated joint session speech Biden, just has a cold Biden, zonked out because he worked to hard earlier in the day Biden, worn out debate Biden (aka it was just a reaction to cough syrup Biden) etc. To the extent that the 3am question is a valid question, Biden has a real problem. And a lot of people (judging from back when Hillary asked it) place a lot of importance on the 3am answer.
Already happening https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/1808596765387731339
> Already happening https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/1808596765387731339 This is pretty good propaganda actually.
it'd be the first true thing trump has said too
Yeah, and who’s fault is that? The overreaction from the media (to play into Trump’s hand) and places like this sub, who have an unrealistic fantasy that some outsider is going to rise to prominence and go from unknown to president in a few months.
It wasn't an overreaction. I have friends (not a flex) in the political space who all agree that when you ask, "What's the worst thing that could happen?", this was the worst. Biden played into one of Trump's many narratives about him. He was so bad, put one of them, that it overshadowed the fact that Trump was awful too. Biden will be lucky if Trump agrees to debate him again. I wouldn't.
> He was so bad, put one of them, that it overshadowed the fact that Trump was awful too. Biden will be lucky if Trump agrees to debate him again. I wouldn't. Why not? There is a high probability that Biden will look even worse a next time.
It wasn’t the media. I haven’t watched TV through my fingers since I was a child, but I wanted to as soon as Biden started speaking. You can’t simultaneously acknowledge the stakes of the election and deny the debate was a horror show. He could have shown that his performance was an aberration, but instead he and his campaign opted for denial (suggesting the performance is normal) and an announcement that he wouldn’t campaign so hard (despite his already relaxed schedule).
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I'd argue the DNC have a hand in it too.
Almost delusional. Stay united and beat the psycho
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I mean...he doesn't have to be a willing participant. The DNC should have had a spine on this from the beginning and forced a full primary season.
Actually, he literally legally does. The fallout from everyone freaking out in 2016 about super delegates potentially being able to throw the primary to Clinton, even if Bernie won all the other delegates, led to a reorganisation of how delegates are awarded and their legal obligations. Currently, delegates are legally obligated to vote for Biden because he won every primary. The party has no legal means of influencing their vote. Biden has to be convinced to step down, or he's the nominee and literally no one can do anything about it.
The super delegates were never quite that powerful. They held about 20% of the vote. They also tended to switch sides if the popular vote went opposite to the way they had pledged. In 2008 Hillary Clinton had a big lead in super delegates but they eventually switched sides when it was clear that Obama had won the states.
The DNC didn't have the power to force anyone to run who didn't want to run. It's not a strong organization. And the potentially strong candidates probably wouldn't have wanted to run against an incumbent even with strong urging. Part of the problem here is that Biden's staffers, aides, and such have arguably been hiding just how bad he's gotten, if it weren't for that, it would have been easier to make the argument against Biden earlier, but the DNC may simply not have known how bad things are due to how secretive Bidenworld has been with this stuff
And why wouldn’t he?
Are we supposed to act like it *hasn't?*
Exactly. Trump is going to have a field day with this.
Yet another reason for Biden to drop out. Increasingly their only defense is “incumbent advantage” but incumbent advantage means nothing when your approval rating is at 36% and dropping. This should be the easiest decision for the democrats. It’s time to stop dragging this out and force Biden out. Democrats need to start acting a bit like Republicans here. They’re too afraid of confrontation but now’s the time to get our shit together and confront Biden. Too much is at stake and he simple cannot overcome this level of bad press and polling. A candidate half his age would struggle. But Biden cant be left to talk without a teleprompter, can’t be trusted to debate, can’t interview without pre approved questions and is unable to campaign at the level we need him to. So why are they so adamant he can do this? This last week proved he can’t.
Good news for the DNC. Soon they'll be able to swap out the "help us retake the SCOTUS!" fundraising emails that are old and dated now the fascist majority is locked in for a generation with snazzy new "help us stop the GOP from calling a constitutional convention!" messages.
And democrats will complain the emails used the wrong font so they won’t do the work
Since when is Axelrod right about anything?
Obama.
The way to avoid this if Biden won’t step down isn’t to constantly publish articles on him losing but to highlight things like project 2025. Is Biden too old? Fuck yes, but if he’s not going to step down, then roasting him in the media isn’t going to help. We need to focus on the other side of the aisle and their insane agenda. Go look at other media outlets and tell me how many Biden is old stories you see versus project 2025 or articles talking about Trump’s obvious insanity or the crazy Supreme Court rulings.
I hope some congresspeople have the stones to fight back against this. We're watching this man run the party into the ground in real time. "There was a primary! If you didn't like me then you should've voted me out!" Maybe if you took live questions from reporters like, ever, more voters would be aware of your condition. Fair or not, the *majority* of Americans think you are too old to have the mental capacity to run the country. You had a chance to steady the ship, and you failed. Listen to voters, and please step aside.
The whole “there was a primary” line of reasoning needs to go away. In many states he was the only candidate allowed on ballots and in Florida they canceled it all together.
States could have done like MN and voted non-committed, but they did not. People can't take primaries for granted.
Not every state has that option in primaries
To be fair, Biden's advisors were doing a heck of a job keeping all of this under-wraps. That was partially the 2020 campaign plan: towards the end they just kept Biden out of the spotlight and let Trump ruin it for himself. Now they can't do that and people are panicking because they realized the one trick Biden did to actually win a Presidency is dead in the water and his Plan B is "lose by a landslide because I'm too inept and old to fix this."
The problem with non-committed is it doesn't tell you anything specific about the voters. At the time of the primary, non-committed meant you were protesting Biden for the war in Gaza but still had a strong likelihood of supporting him in the general election. How do we know who voted non-committed because of Gaza or because they wanted a candidate other than Biden?
Where do you get your information from?? Ben Franklin was 81 when he signed the constitution. They had to carry him in.
I'll be watching him win in a landslide then.
Goodbye, democracy
Dems are stupidly spending three weeks arguing about the unfit-ness of their candidate instead of talking about the "black jobs" comment and the "hispanic jobs" comment and the chipping away at abortion rights across the nation and about all of TRUMPS lapses of memory and about all of the huge corporate donations from climate destroyers to Trump.
What part do you not understand? Dems are going to vote for Biden if they vote. Independents are not going to vote for Biden. The only way Biden wins this election is with massive voter turnout and (not or) some help from the independents/undecideds. Do you really think Biden is capable of inspiring massive voter turnout? He is going to lose and he is going to take the House , the senate, state elections, and a SCOTUS appointment or two with him. This is not business as usual, Biden fucked over the voters by hiding his mental decline. His Legacy is already ruined it will only get worse if he doesn't drop out.
I didn't say that Biden should stay in the race. But instead of disparaging their current candidate, and talking about how un-electable most of the other Dem choices are, immediately following the debate we should have be pointing out every Trump lie, continuing to talk about loss of rights all over the country, discussing the horrible pandemic economy that was handed to Biden, reminding voters how Obama cleaned up the Bush/Cheney economy, discussing the states that are denying summer lunches to kids, and not letting Trump get away with saying that he cleaned up the border. He didn't , not even close. And here we sit, letting the swing-state voters sit back and watch us argue incessantly about which of our possible candidates is the worst.
It’s what democrats do best. We deserved trump for how they attacked Clinton and the blame of “it’s all Biden’s fault” is laughable. Everyone supported him until the debate. Maybe it changed but the vast vast majority of the party still support him. But sure let’s keep burying a guy we supposedly like just because.
Biden is not leaving unless he is disparaged. He is showing that it is about him, not us. Biden is the definition of an elite Washington insider.
Biden lost the moment he started speaking on that debate stage. A lot can change from now until November but I don’t think Biden will win.
Hell, even just walking onto the stage I realized, “Oh no”
Biden will win. Americans know a fascist dicktater when they see one. They came out in record numbers to squash the orange dildo in 2020, and I think even more will this time. Including Republicans that are sick of this shit. Project2025 is really waking people up to this election cycle. And the people that have been paying closer attention this whole time will vote for Biden on his death bed. I will gladly send Joe to that glorious 2nd term in the sky if it means keeping my damn country.
Joe Biden has the lowest approval ratings of any all time in 2024, is losing the young votes to trump, and is polling historically the lowest with African Americans
What kind of kool-aid are the Americans drinking? Trump is an all out stark raving mad lunatic, and you all are OK with that, but you want Biden gone? Biden is 81 years old. Of course he's going to have senior moments and maybe show some fatigue. So what? Rather a president that needs some breaks than one that is going to turn the US into a single party Christo-Fascist state! The GOP are currently the Christian equivalent of Hamas. Give your heads a collective shake.
Some people seem to have trouble separating or distinguishing between two important questions. One question is, will you vote for the Democratic nominee, presumably Joe Biden? Another question is, do you think Joe Biden will defeat Donald Trump in the election? The people who are saying they'd like Biden gone are not saying this because of question one, but because of question two. They fear that if Biden is the nominee, he is going to lose. They see the poll numbers that give Trump a strong chance to win the popular vote for the first time ever, while to prevail in the electoral college Biden would need to be leading Trump by the same margin. And they just do not see the path for an 81 year old man who sometimes struggles to articulate his thoughts to move the margins by 5-10%.
This is so difficult to understand, so I’m just going to attack you and feel superior.
Forget about the polls they are just snapshots! Polls had the the far right in France and the UK winning and what happened they both lost so enough about the polls
That’s not what changed in France. What changed in France was that Macron saw the writing on the wall and made a dramatic gambit to avoid a bleak outcome. Specifically, they reached an arrangement with a coalition of liberal parties that ultimately led to many candidates leaving the race, to consolidate the opposition to the far right. The lesson learned from France should not be ‘do nothing and hope the polls are wrong’, that’s not what happened and it’s not wise even if it were. As for the UK, polls absolutely did not have the Tories winning. This election was expected to be a bloodbath from the beginning.
Exactly. I would vote for Biden if he was a corpse.
Me too, but I’d rather vote for someone that has the mental and physical stamina to serve for 4 years.
We don't have a choice right now....
Which is why we’re pushing for the hard choice to be made to put a different Dem up
We’re aware of the danger of Trump. The problem is Biden needs the votes of independents and undecideds. He’s lost them for good in the span of a week. If the dems put a younger candidate forward, those who hate that both the current candidates are geriatrics would have a reason to vote for the new Dem.
Exactly. I will vote to get rid of Trump, but I want a candidate who can keep him in Mar-a-Lago and out of the White House. Biden is guaranteeing us another Trump "administration" (as though Trump could administer anything) by staying in the race.
>Biden is 81 years old. Of course he's going to have senior moments and maybe show some fatigue. So what? Some people actually believe that having one of the most influential jobs in the World shouldn't be held by someone who's shown to have senior moments. Trump is trump, that's not changing. Democrats *could* get a young aggressive candidate that galvanizes young voters as well as the independent/moderates that will probably sit this one out. But it IS The Democratic Party, so I'm convinced they'll keep the status quo and by Midnight of the election, Trump will have won.
Does it not matter to you that Trump shows FAR more of those than Biden?
That doesn't explain why Biden should be the democratic nominee
I’ll try. Right now we are talking about Biden the candidate. He has never been a great political candidate: not the best speaker, has a stutter, makes off the cuff comments that aren’t great. Biden the president however has been one of the most effective presidents in the last 30 years. Maybe some of that is the team he put around him. At the end of the day I am voting for a president not a debater or a public speaker. The DNC needs to focus on the action, track record, and plans of Biden and not this organizational chaos.
I agree with what you stated, but that doesn't mean undecided voters see things the same way. Most Democrats are going to vote for Biden at the end of the day to stop Trump. But Biden needs more than just Democrats and he is currently losing to Trump because he has lost those votes to Trump, to third parties, or to apathy.
It’s because the Americans that will decide the future of the country don’t see it like you. They see gas prices, food prices, and short clips of Biden looking 120 years old and believe “it can’t happen here.” So many democrats see what the average American sees and believe he’s toast. I’m a plugged in Democrat and I had to stop watching the debate after a few minutes. We’re obsessed with getting him replaced because we know without a doubt he cannot win.
Like Carlin said - "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
Voter turnout is going to be suppressed this year, but I firmly believe that Biden is going to crush Trump.
Based on what freaking data??? This sub is lost in the sauce
Hey neighbor! Ohioan here…pass me some of what you’re smoking.
This sub is full of folks with pundit brain.
It's not pundit brain, it's fear and denial. If they admit Trump is likely to win against Biden, everything we've been worried about—Project 2025, gutting climate action, a conservative Supreme Court for the next fifty years—all of that becomes much more real, less hypothetical. They simply can't handle it. Instead of recognizing the situation and organizing to fight *harder* to make sure it doesn't happen, they're pouting in the corner repeating "This is not happening" over and over again. It's a childish rejection of reality. That sounds harsh, but at this point I'm all out of fucks to give.
lol Biden beat Trump by less than 50,000 votes in swing states to win through the Electoral College, but go off on how Biden is going to "crush" a candidate he's currently polling behind, when in 2020 he was already in the lead.
Polling in July is absolute dogshit.
Polling from July to November typically sees minimal fluctuations. Things can shift, but they usually don't shift by much.
If anyone is going to crush anyone, it’ll be Trump crushing the eventual Democrat. Biden or another Dem will not crush Trump - the Democrats need a 3-4% win in the popular vote to win the electoral college, and Biden is currently down by about 6% in an average of polls. Edit: Sorry, down 3-5% depending on whether 3rd parties and independents are included. Don’t want to be inaccurate. [Link](https://www.realclearpolitics.com)
Those the same polls that predicted the overwhelming "red wave" in 2022? Political polling is almost useless nowadays. Biden beat trump before, he certainly can do it again. They were both old as hell last time around too
Precisely. People thinking polls, especially still in JULY, are reliable is absurd.
*shrugs* You don’t have to believe them. But I think that dismissing them, especially after Biden laid a steaming hot turd on stage at the debate to justify all the right has been saying about him being senile for 4 years, is dangerous. And yes, people say debates don’t matter. But what if the debate performance was monumentally, historically bad? 50+ million people watched it. Last election had what, about 160 million votes cast? So almost a third of the number that voted last time watched Biden lay an egg. Doesn’t inspire confidence from me.
I hear you, but there's a long stretch before November. We'll see what happens in the future. I also just don't think there are truly that many people sitting on the fence that could vote Biden or Trump. I think it's more likely that people are mostly decided on who they want, but they're not decided on if they will vote or not. I think a lot of democrats that did sit on the bench for HRC still recognize the shit sandwich they got because of that, and so even if Biden is a drooling mushmouth, they'll still show up and do the thing for him - over the abhorrent asshole that is Trump.
It’s worse than that. New poll today says Trumps approval rating is now positive at 51% https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/07/trump-presidency-viewed-more-favorably-poll-finds/74292329007/
People really struggle to realize they’re voting for an administration. A cabinet full of qualified professionals. No president has the necessary knowledge to run this country, they are speaking and acting on behalf of their cabinet. Vote for the administration filled with qualified and deserving individuals not cronies and idiots
> People really struggle to realize they’re voting for an administration. Democrats understand this. Undecided voters are not prioritizing that message. Saying it doesn't matter if our candidate is too old because he has a great team to manage him isn't going to win those voters back.
He'll get back to you on this in 1-2 business weeks betwen the hours of 10AM and 4 PM
In a 5 minute teleprompted speech. He will not take questions.
It's okay, right? There's no time-zone differences where Biden would need to be up at Midnight to deal with a crisis, right? right???
I mean, even without the time zones emergencies are illegal the other 18 hours a day. Also fun fact with sun downing is the windows of lucidity shrink with time. By November they’re probably cutting those hours back.
Really, so Americans will vote for a felon who raped little girls over an old guy?
The presidency is a popularity contest, like it or not it doesn't change it. And Biden just became the most unpopular candidate.
If we vote, Axelrod will be fucking wrong. Vote! Don't miss this election.
"We"? As is the tuned-in folks on a politics subreddit? That was never in question. Biden doesn't need "us". He needs the tuned-out voters, and a lot of them at that. And he has shown he has no ability to win their votes.
This. 100% this. This will play out very similar to Trump vs Hillary, albeit for somewhat different reasons. And every day they delay on a new candidate is one less day that person will have to drum up the type of support they will need.
I trust young voters born 2003-2006 to get out the vote. Celebrities like Taylor Swift will certainly tell people to vote and back Biden.
The demographic thats being insulted the most?
Democrats regularly insult gen z, calling them Hamas supporters, antisemites, say they're stupid, unreliable, and that leftist politics are irrelevant. They then turn around and simply expect their votes because the other option is worse. We give the generation with the least to lose, and the most physically able to survive the fascist policies being pushed by the right, a party of bigots or a party of open minded people that seemingly only despise bigots, leftists, and youth. We then tell them they need to vote for the people showing disdain for them in order to save the country they openly hate on and blame for many of the world's problems, including what they believe to be a genocide in Gaza. I feel like I'm going crazy because I can't understand how people think this is a winning strategy. I don't expect them to vote for Trump, although the Democrats losing support among youth (and black and Latino) voters should be raising alarms.
It’s not a winning strategy. This chaos, just like 2016, is a stark reminder for progressives that a huge percentage of Democrats are as hostile towards us as Republicans. Just look at how condescending the comments in support of Biden are in the last few days. By the way, I’m not even Gen Z, I just have eyes and understand how to read polls. The Biden camp are the ones tearing the party apart. The Biden camp are the children in the room, threatening to take the ball home with them if they don’t like the ref’s call. The Biden camp are unwilling to listen to reason or data, in favor of blind hope. If we lose this election, it is the fault of the Biden camp.
You absolutely should not trust them. Lmao
More so on the issue of climate change.....think about how they reacted, when Biden approved the "Willow Project". Not good for Biden.
You mean the people literally telling us they don't want to vote for Biden? You just expect them to do it anyway? It's 2016 all over again, except this time we know better but are just going to cover our eyes and ear and hope things turn out better.
I mean, I don't want to vote for Biden either. But I will if he's the option against Trump. I didn't want to vote for him in 2020 either, or Clinton in 2016. But I did because Trump would have been (in 2020) and was (in 2016) worse.
At some point, the whole "lesser of two evils" thing runs its course and stops working. It was never a viable long-term strategy. At some point you simply have to offer voters something to vote *for*. The Republican Party is where it is today—ready to assume control over all three branches of the government, potentially for a very long time—because it learned to listen to its voters, however misguided they are. Evangelicals used to sit out elections before the 1970s. Now look where we are. The future I want to live in is the one in which Republicans impotently lament the fact that the Democratic Party decided to start catering to this country's massive disenchanted left wing.
I absolutely agree with you. But it doesn't change the fact that we are fighting against a fascist regime ready to make sure elections never happen again, and until major changes are made to the election system in the US, the Dems are the only sane option. 3rd party isn't viable, neither is not voting.
That is what 75% of those committed to voting for Biden say. That is damning because we don't want him, we just Don't want Trump. Running anyone else would be better because we don't have the Biden baggage that is building up the longer this goes on. Different problems, a very hard fight, but at least gives us a Change to win. Biden is a guaranteed loss.
> If we vote, Axelrod will be fucking wrong. Vote! Don't miss this election. Democrats voting Biden won't be enough for Biden to beat Trump. Trump is going to win amnyway. Biden already lost swing states and even some blue states.
Where did he lose these states? I need a source please.
Of course he didn't "lose" since the election hasn't taken place, but Biden was already polling 3 points ahead of Trump at this time during 2020 and right now he's behind like 5 and that's being generous. An incumbent trailing his opponent is a really bad sign.
Forget it. His letter to lawmakers that was released today sounds JUST like one of Trump’s Truth Social posts. This fucking killed him, I have NO idea what he was thinking or what his staff was thinking by writing that. Humiliating
Most of this sub will all vote for Biden. It won’t be enough. He won’t have enough support. My advice, vote and encourage everyone you know to vote, but also mentally prepare. I give it an 80% chance that Biden loses this election.
As a blue centrist. No. If you want our vote, earn it. If you want Trump, keep ignoring us. Many people I spoke to over the holiday weekend, are not voting if Biden stays in. One is dead set that Biden will drop out, and refused to entertain the idea that he stays in. These are people that voted Obama into the Whitehouse, and came back for Biden.
> No. If you want our vote, earn it Yikes, you're what's wrong with America and why 2016 happened. Vote blue no matter what or what happened in 2016-2020 is going to be a fever dream compared to what's coming up.
Hence why I'm centrist blue. I value who I give my vote to. So do the people who also sat out in 2016. We are not the problem. We do not just blindly give our votes out. If you want our vote, earn it.
> We are not the problem. We do not just blindly give our votes out. This is the most ignorant statement I've ever read. So you value who you give your vote to but you will actively not vote for someone out of spite which will inevitably guarantee Trump a win in November? Sitting on your high horse and watching the world burn because you don't like Biden is the most selfish bullshit reason you could have to subliminally say you don't mind Donald Trump ruining the country.
I don't think you understand. We don't sit on our "high horse". This is literally just being normal. If people stopped just handing their votes to the first person with a (D) or (R) that they give you, perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. If having basic standards is now controversial, then I don't want to participate. Plain as that.
What don't you understand? Not voting at all is equal to a vote for Donald Trump, especially if you live in a pivotal swing state.
So many of the people here are mystified by the idea of a bad candidate that is underwater on favourability earning a vote rather than just being entitled to it because Trump is their opponent. Completely unable to understand that non-party die hards want something to vote *for*. All this "I would vote for Biden in a coma / Biden's corpse / a brick," is a horrible endorsement for their candidate because it shows they have rock bottom standards for a candidate. What non blue MAGA sees is "Vote for our 2/10! The other guy's 1/10! What do you mean you want a 5/10 minimum? We're not doing that! Thanks for making us lose!"
lol okay. Thanks for destroying this country further.
If Biden drops out, I'll gladly vote for a real candidate. Don't blame the bystanders for not bailing out the ship you put holes in. If you truly didn't want Trump, you wouldn't stick with Biden. That's on you.
I'll vote for a wet, chunky fart over Trump. I'll vote for a 95 year old man who will predictably die on day 0 of his 2nd term against Trump. I don't give a fuck who the candidate is as long as it's not Trump. If the DNC wanted to put someone else in place, that's who I'm voting for. For now, it's Biden. This isn't a game. People's rights will be taken away even more so. I don't even know why I'm talking to you - you're an Adjective-Noun-Number which means you're 95% an astroturfer, but for those that are reading these comments, please swallow your pride and vote.
You are a number-adjective-noun
>please swallow your pride and vote. I mean, if that's the campaign you're running on, you can't be surprised when people don't want to vote for you. Obama didn't have this problem in 2008 and 2012. He's starting to look more & more like an anomaly in the DNC Presidential books and that's NOT good.
You'll be saying this exact same thing if Biden drops out and Harris steps in. Let's be real. You and those like you would rather watch things go to hell and be right than to protect democracy. I think Biden should step down but I also think if he doesn't, then we vote for the idiot to give us a fighting chance for 2028 to get a candidate we can feel proud to want. Think of the bigger picture
Let's be real, if Harris ran, I'd vote for her. If Biden continues, and I just hand him my vote again, the main Democrats will learn nothing, and we will have Biden v Trump 2.0 replacements in 2028. Because we all know, Trump's pick will be auto railroaded through the RNC. Everyone I know (besides the one who "knows" Biden will drop out) thinks this way. We were made this same promise in 2020, vote Biden and we'll get a real candidate for 2024, and now it's 2024 and nothing changed.
Truthfully, I thought Trump would be shuffled off the mortal coil due to his poor health by now and all the MAGAts would wake up but I was wrong on both counts and now p2025 is in full swing
Blame the DNC. Why is it one person’s responsibility to save the country when the system fucks us over anyway? Biden was supposed to be a one term president. Now he’s acting like Trump.
Another astroturfer - sure thing boss.
And what would you have us do? We’ve told the DNC multiple times that their candidates are shit. We can’t rely on republicans to ditch the dictator in chief. I’ll vote for Biden if he stays in, but he’s going to lose now. Guaranteed. So you can act like you’re on a moral high ground all you like, it won’t change the minds of the voters Biden needs. As far as I’m concerned, we deserve Trump.
You don’t think Biden sounds EXACTLY like Trump in his letter? That letter just fucking killed him, I’m sorry. Talking about how all the polls are fake, how he’ll obliterate anyone who dares challenge him at the convention, how he’s the only one who matters, etc. It’s an atrocious look and he’s pissing even more Dem politicians and lawmakers off now than he already has. They need to get him the fuck out of here ASAP before he ruins EVERYTHING for the party
Loud speakers will shout WE FUCKING TOLD YOU YOU OLD FUCK when he loses
There is a reason he’s been out of the game for over a decade. Since 2012 he’s been busy losing elections in Europe.
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Every day that Biden stays in inches us closer to the end of our democracy. The damage is irreversible at this point and Biden’s going to lose bigly. We’re fucked.
David Axelrod is the guy who put Obama in the White House, for folks who would try to minimize him or his opinions
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Biden won the election by 4-5 points in 2020 and barely won a bunch of swing states. He's consistently losing in all swing states now within the margin of error. Republicans have the advantage because of the electoral college. Biden needs to be up to have a shot.
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He was losing even prior to this debate and media shitstorm.
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Yeah he was bro. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/ Scroll down in the polls to prior to June 25. He was behind in both general and swing state polls. You are denying reality.
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Just name the polling outlets that you consider reputable because nobody is going to be able to guess who you consider to be that
You’re a Destiny viewer, makes sense that you’re in denial. Can you explain how Biden can win without using poll numbers if they’re all bad?
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Someone who knows about Hasan Piker but doesn’t know about Destiny? Interesting. But he’s a debater on Kick who’s subreddit seems to talk about Hasan a bit too much.
Just the fact that it was going to be competitive(before the trainwreck debate) should have been a huge red flag for you about Biden being our nominee. There is no excuse for us not putting forth a candidate that will crush Trump. Didn't look good for Biden before the debate and he's absolute toast now.
Losing by the margin of error still means it's far more likely than not that you're behind. Just that there is less than a 90% chance (usually it's 99%) that trump is ahead. Still a very high chance.
Biden is [losing](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1dwduf9/biden_rejects_independent_medical_evaluation_in/lbtxyv2/) the Electoral College. > Biden was ahead by a fair margin in popular vote polling averages (more than Hillary was in 2016) and ended up with a noticeably smaller margin (538's popular vote average was +8 Biden and the final result was around +4.5 Biden, in 2016 Hillary was at +4 and actually got +2).
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This is delusional
Lets make it $1000. Bidens fucked and I'll take your money
If you go on RCP, you’ll see polls from NYT/Sienna, WSJ, Harris, and CNN that were released in the past few days showing as much. You’ll also see the recent Bloomberg polls showing Biden losing Arizona and Nevada by six or seven points. The Harris poll showed that most respondents had followed the debate and that 40% had said that it made them less likely to vote for Biden, similar numbers said it made them more likely to vote Trump. All these polls have shown movement in the same direction. Just hand waving the existential threat of a landslide loss as ‘fake news’ isn’t going to help.
NYT and WSJ both have Trump ahead by 6
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https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/trump-expands-lead-over-biden-after-debate-as-voters-age-worries-grow-wsj-poll-finds-c3a793ab
“We have hearsay and conjecture. Those are *kinds* of evidence.”
You don't say? Someone from CNN saying Biden won't win? The same CNN that prevented Trump from spouting bullshit? Go on, Axelrod, tell us more.
I am NOT voting for Biden or Trump. Good luck with your agendas without our support. You can thank Biden, Kamala, and the DNC for their hubris when it’s all falling apart. We’re not at fault because we refuse to accept shit candidates anymore. What’s the point of keepig the status quo going when it’s like this every cycle? Either Biden steps down, or the DNC loses many of us forever. Sick of this “it’s my turn” bullshit. Do what’s right for America, step aside Joe.
> I am NOT voting for Biden or Trump. > > So you're voting for Trump - got it.
Maga will push a federal ban on abortion. Sixteen people Trump’s administration wrote Project 2025. Trump has been espousing Project 2025’s talking points for well over 2 yrs at his rallies. This is the reality you deserve when you bury your head in the sand.
Well said. It's years of vote 'blue no matter who' that created this unaccountable monster.
Exactly. Enough is enough. The people need to clean house at the DNC and build a party that actually listens to its voters.
If Biden had slayed drumpy in the first debate then Shitzhispants wouldn't attend the second one closer to the vote. Did Chetto Mussolini dodge reporters recently, are there more & worse crimes being unearthed in the next three months ...
Axelrod helped to destroy the Democratic party https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/the-decimation-of-the-democratic-party-visualized/
No one is going to win this by a landslide.
Trump could, at the rate this is going. [Electoral College map](https://www.270towin.com) Play with this a little - give Trump all the swing states plus New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota and New Hampshire. Maybe the couple house districts in Nebraska and Maine for good measure. Number goes past 350 real easy. Anything over 300 these days is a pretty good win, 350 would definitely be an electoral college landslide.
Why would you give him Colorado and New Hampshire?
Saw recent news stories with polls showing that Trump was close in New Mexico, Colorado, and New Hampshire. Probably (hopefully) outliers.
A lot of people say he should step aside. None of those people ever have an answer for who would be a better choice. Shut the fuck up unless you have an alternative.