It's really a matter of preference.
Think of it this way, if you are using a plain white surface, the blackest black you can get is when you have the least amount of reflected light. So if all the lights in the room are off, and your projector is turned off, your white screen will look perfectly black. If you have any lights on in the room, the white screen is not black anymore but very slightly white. The more light you have in the room (including from your projector) the worse your black level becomes. And since your projector doesn't get any brighter when the room is bright, your contrast ratio declined and the image looks washed out.
The idea is that switching to a grey or black screen will make the blacks appear blacker even if there is a bit of ambient light because now your darkest color isn't white, it's grey or black and they absorb a bit more light. This does help but what you gain in darker blacks, you lose in brightness because your brightest bright isn't white anymore, it's grey/black.
You can improve the brights on a grey screen by using a higher gain material. Essentially this is done by using a more reflective material. But now you can get hotspots because the light isn't diffusing on the screen, it's reflecting like a mirror. You can also opt for an ambient light rejection or ceiling light rejection screen. These screens have ridges that act like microscopic umbrellas to block undesired light from reflecting back to the viewer.
You will find that some people love grey or black screens for better blacks while some people prefer white for brighter whites. It really comes down to trying the screen with your projector and seeing what you like best.
Wow thanks dude. This definitely makes sense. I see our household wanting the best black in a picture. It’s how we adjust the picture in anything we watch/play. Man it’s crazy being new to something. I had no idea about the screen color/material having such an affect on the experience. I just thought there were only variations of ‘white’ screens. Maybe that’s due to only being exposed to movie theaters - all those screens appear to be white. I need to do better research 🫠
Great explanation! Blacks get washed out by ambient light from the room and by light from the projector, like you said, but even if you project a totally black screen, the projector will still project a rectangle of light. You can easily notice this if you watch a movie with a wider aspect ratio, the "black" bars at the top and bottom are clearly visible and brighter than the surrounding space. I don't know if it's just DLP projectors that do this or if it's every projector?
It's essentially the same problem as regular LCD displays, where the entire screen is lit up irregardless of how dark the pixels are. What we need is OLED for projectors.
Yeah I used to hate the “black bars” light spilling off top/bottom when viewing a zoomed out 2.40:1 movie on my old low end Sony projector, but now I have one of the more high end ones I found they have a feature called “masking” which allow you to turn off / blank any number of rows on top bottom as needed. I don’t exactly know if it blocks light mechanically or not but I definitely see the spill light disappearing as I increase the masking. Then it is saved as part of picture preset with zoom/focus/position - much better than the cheaper projectors.
I don't think there's a masking feature on the BenQ W2700/HT3550 :(
The black bars are annoying but not the real problem, I was just using them to illustrate my point. Even with masking, the blacks and dark colours within the frame get washed out because projectors project light across the entirity of the screen. What I want is for every pixel or ray of light emitted by the lens to be able to scale in brightness all the way down to zero brightness for total black.
In terms of black levels, we’re actually getting closer to “OLED for projectors” than you might think. Tech isn’t quite there yet but it’s in development and getting better every minute. This YouTube video should demonstrate how the process called “Lightsteering” works, and how Hisense is currently hard at work integrating it:
[https://youtu.be/qmnNyGBGQwg?si=Tn7MhNMJpFxiyWaD](https://youtu.be/qmnNyGBGQwg?si=Tn7MhNMJpFxiyWaD)
Sony VPL-VW360ES.
The other good thing about blanking I forgot to mention is when you stop the movie and go back to main PLEX menus etc you don’t get the entire horrible 16:9 menus on your wall and ceiling! It stays chopped perfectly at 2.40:1
You know what I’ve noticed though? While watching on a white screen, the light colors are so bright in normal scenes that your eyes are very dilated and see the light grey from the white screen as black. I think the only time you really can notice it is in very dark scenes.
What do you think?
Then i would do it - because the LS11000 has not the best Blacks AND you have more than enough "reserve" Lightoutput with your 120" Screen because the LS11000 can do easily 150".
How the heck are you getting 120” with a 10-foot throw? I’ve been looking at the 11000/12000/np5 and at 10 feet the largest screen I can get is ~100” according to all of the throw distance calculators online.
To cut down on reflection- I cutout a sheet into thick strips to create a darker border around the screen to dampen light bleed/reflection issues
Notice at the top of my picture, you can see the light reflecting. That adds to the total ambient light, which is lethal to the strength of blacks and contrast
Yep I can totally see that. Wow. Thanks dude. I’m so glad I didn’t pull the trigger on some white screens I’ve been eyeing. I appreciate that explanation!
Awwsome! Glad to hear you’re getting into projectors.
Essentially- a white wall(and even screen) is great at colors, but lacks in contrast in black levels. White surfaces reflect more light, and that reflection washes out the darks. Unless you had dark walls and ceiling, white paint walls/ceiling will shine extra light reflected from your projecting surface.
A gray screen cuts down on reflection and makes the blacks deeper, contrast stronger, and overall better image. At least for my setup/room
Only if you have ambient light and/or white walls
However, white screen in a black room will yield the highest contrast (true black plus brightest colors):
https://fb.watch/8Nd-TmSTbQ/
Projectors can't do absence of light perfectly. There's a little bleed through. Going grey will help the projector out a little bit do blacks, since the grey material will eat the bled through light when the projector tries to do black. And then on some projectors you can tell it what gain you have on your grey screen and it'll boost the image to get it brighter where it needs (where you want light on the screen). So you'll get better blacks without dulling the image. . .you'll get better contrast since your blacks will be blacker.
Yes- I noticed my wall was reflecting too much light. Look into what would work best for you. My blacks were never a full black- light a gray glow. Images with a lot of contrast- like a moon in space, would cause the space to be gray and not black. Here is 2001 with the gray screen
https://preview.redd.it/ccpk10omkcyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d390be48912f588584c9441636ee439e1dbccd3d
that's really great to see what covering even one wall and the screen does. I think if you have a bright enough projector then you will still have the brighter whites. what project is this? I'm running the BENQ HT3550.
have you looked in the projector room paint that would be non reflective? seems like it might even be worth it for one wall if you didn't want to go too nuts at first.
This is the epson 3800
I’ve thought about paint, but I’m renting. I’ve wondered about wallpaper, but the missus is less than excited about doing something regarding the walls and ceiling
I had a white pull down screen that developed bad waves so switched to a grey fixed. Immediate overall improvement. Even in full dark since my room has a lot of reflections.
Back wall is a dark flat gray, walls are top-to-bottom black curtains. Ceiling is white - pending a paint job delayed by the energy required to cover everything before I paint.
I got just the right thing for your roof to avoid any light reflection there! Checkout my history of a post I just made. Lol. I'm not a bot btw :D
It's some sticky fabric I got off Amazon. I will definitely look into getting a dark/grey screen once I switch my projector. It's got like 10 000 equivalent lamp hours on it so it's not the brightest projector currently and I think a white screen serves me better for now :D
:D I've been debating that for a while but like I said my room is poorly ventilated and it gets pretty hot in the summer. Instead of buying a bulb for ~$150, thinking of selling the projector for ~$400, and get a 2060 which has led light For ~700. It's like an extra 150-200 bucks overall which I think is worth it?
I appreciate your suggestion and opinion
Hard to tell- lots of variables. I’d check out some comparison vids on YouTube to see what would work best for your gear and room. For me- brightness would just increase the ambient light and reflections of light
This one is the 110” Silver Ticket Gray material screen.
There are a ton of helpful youtube vids showcasing comparisons between screens. I’d check those out and consider your viewing conditions, then proceed from there
Awesome! I was literally looking at getting this one. Same one?
https://preview.redd.it/k3k9ujv7zfyc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a0b81ab22b34070401aeaf928f8ab8e22e0ed2f
Exactly! And just double check the size of the wall against the size of the frame. The frame is larger than the screen. I couldn’t use the frame because while the screen fit perfectly- I had no room for the frame
One detail— my screen came with a frame. While the screen fit my wall, my screen also came with a frame. The frame extended the size of the screen in total, and this did not fit my wall. Pay attention to screen size vs total frame size
https://preview.redd.it/l0ql2lppagyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1071e556e73177ff380e94c5f6b93f28347bcf89
Here’s a typical look- colors were good, but everything is kind of washed out.
Epson 3800
The brighter the scene- the more colors pop, but the more blacks are lost. It’s a balance thing
Nice improvement. Still have a white screen and looking to change, black fabric sits a few inches in front of the screen to cutdown the light which helps the screen stand out but still seeing the washed out image from the ceiling reflections.
https://preview.redd.it/d28naam0ogyc1.jpeg?width=4030&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e2561dadc15795a30f9b23f44b3869e3f2b17f6
Older Epson Home Cinema 8350 (eco mode disabled).
Champion. This is awesome to see.
I just moved into my own home and have a 120” white screen in a dedicated cinema room. Im very happy with it but in a few years I might look at a grey screen too.
So I’m super new to this sub, projector setup in the works. Why is a gray screen superior over white?
It's really a matter of preference. Think of it this way, if you are using a plain white surface, the blackest black you can get is when you have the least amount of reflected light. So if all the lights in the room are off, and your projector is turned off, your white screen will look perfectly black. If you have any lights on in the room, the white screen is not black anymore but very slightly white. The more light you have in the room (including from your projector) the worse your black level becomes. And since your projector doesn't get any brighter when the room is bright, your contrast ratio declined and the image looks washed out. The idea is that switching to a grey or black screen will make the blacks appear blacker even if there is a bit of ambient light because now your darkest color isn't white, it's grey or black and they absorb a bit more light. This does help but what you gain in darker blacks, you lose in brightness because your brightest bright isn't white anymore, it's grey/black. You can improve the brights on a grey screen by using a higher gain material. Essentially this is done by using a more reflective material. But now you can get hotspots because the light isn't diffusing on the screen, it's reflecting like a mirror. You can also opt for an ambient light rejection or ceiling light rejection screen. These screens have ridges that act like microscopic umbrellas to block undesired light from reflecting back to the viewer. You will find that some people love grey or black screens for better blacks while some people prefer white for brighter whites. It really comes down to trying the screen with your projector and seeing what you like best.
Wow thanks dude. This definitely makes sense. I see our household wanting the best black in a picture. It’s how we adjust the picture in anything we watch/play. Man it’s crazy being new to something. I had no idea about the screen color/material having such an affect on the experience. I just thought there were only variations of ‘white’ screens. Maybe that’s due to only being exposed to movie theaters - all those screens appear to be white. I need to do better research 🫠
very good explanation
Great explanation! Blacks get washed out by ambient light from the room and by light from the projector, like you said, but even if you project a totally black screen, the projector will still project a rectangle of light. You can easily notice this if you watch a movie with a wider aspect ratio, the "black" bars at the top and bottom are clearly visible and brighter than the surrounding space. I don't know if it's just DLP projectors that do this or if it's every projector? It's essentially the same problem as regular LCD displays, where the entire screen is lit up irregardless of how dark the pixels are. What we need is OLED for projectors.
Yeah I used to hate the “black bars” light spilling off top/bottom when viewing a zoomed out 2.40:1 movie on my old low end Sony projector, but now I have one of the more high end ones I found they have a feature called “masking” which allow you to turn off / blank any number of rows on top bottom as needed. I don’t exactly know if it blocks light mechanically or not but I definitely see the spill light disappearing as I increase the masking. Then it is saved as part of picture preset with zoom/focus/position - much better than the cheaper projectors.
I don't think there's a masking feature on the BenQ W2700/HT3550 :( The black bars are annoying but not the real problem, I was just using them to illustrate my point. Even with masking, the blacks and dark colours within the frame get washed out because projectors project light across the entirity of the screen. What I want is for every pixel or ray of light emitted by the lens to be able to scale in brightness all the way down to zero brightness for total black.
In terms of black levels, we’re actually getting closer to “OLED for projectors” than you might think. Tech isn’t quite there yet but it’s in development and getting better every minute. This YouTube video should demonstrate how the process called “Lightsteering” works, and how Hisense is currently hard at work integrating it: [https://youtu.be/qmnNyGBGQwg?si=Tn7MhNMJpFxiyWaD](https://youtu.be/qmnNyGBGQwg?si=Tn7MhNMJpFxiyWaD)
Interesting! Can't seem to find any videos properly showcasing the technology, but if it really does what they're claiming then that would be amazing.
Which projector do you have?
Sony VPL-VW360ES. The other good thing about blanking I forgot to mention is when you stop the movie and go back to main PLEX menus etc you don’t get the entire horrible 16:9 menus on your wall and ceiling! It stays chopped perfectly at 2.40:1
You know what I’ve noticed though? While watching on a white screen, the light colors are so bright in normal scenes that your eyes are very dilated and see the light grey from the white screen as black. I think the only time you really can notice it is in very dark scenes. What do you think?
so in a perfectly light controlled room, zero light other than the projector, white is the best option?
Not for a DLP Projector!
what about 3LCD, I have an Epson LS11000
Depends mainly on your Screen Size then.
120 inches, it goes wall to wall. 10 foot throw
Then i would do it - because the LS11000 has not the best Blacks AND you have more than enough "reserve" Lightoutput with your 120" Screen because the LS11000 can do easily 150".
How the heck are you getting 120” with a 10-foot throw? I’ve been looking at the 11000/12000/np5 and at 10 feet the largest screen I can get is ~100” according to all of the throw distance calculators online.
Thank you for this, I'm on my first projector and first theater room. And had no clue about any of this
So if we can make room as dark as possible then white wall is totally fine?
I think you just talked me out of wanting a projector lol.
Best description! 
r/BestOf
To cut down on reflection- I cutout a sheet into thick strips to create a darker border around the screen to dampen light bleed/reflection issues Notice at the top of my picture, you can see the light reflecting. That adds to the total ambient light, which is lethal to the strength of blacks and contrast
Yep I can totally see that. Wow. Thanks dude. I’m so glad I didn’t pull the trigger on some white screens I’ve been eyeing. I appreciate that explanation!
Happy to— check out YouTube. A ton of comparison videos. Do some research before making a final decision and happy viewing :)
Awwsome! Glad to hear you’re getting into projectors. Essentially- a white wall(and even screen) is great at colors, but lacks in contrast in black levels. White surfaces reflect more light, and that reflection washes out the darks. Unless you had dark walls and ceiling, white paint walls/ceiling will shine extra light reflected from your projecting surface. A gray screen cuts down on reflection and makes the blacks deeper, contrast stronger, and overall better image. At least for my setup/room
Only if you have ambient light and/or white walls However, white screen in a black room will yield the highest contrast (true black plus brightest colors): https://fb.watch/8Nd-TmSTbQ/
Or you use a DLP Projector and not a Epson...
Projectors can't do absence of light perfectly. There's a little bleed through. Going grey will help the projector out a little bit do blacks, since the grey material will eat the bled through light when the projector tries to do black. And then on some projectors you can tell it what gain you have on your grey screen and it'll boost the image to get it brighter where it needs (where you want light on the screen). So you'll get better blacks without dulling the image. . .you'll get better contrast since your blacks will be blacker.
I'm beaming on a white wall for a couple years now too. I really should just buy a damn screen!
Yes- I noticed my wall was reflecting too much light. Look into what would work best for you. My blacks were never a full black- light a gray glow. Images with a lot of contrast- like a moon in space, would cause the space to be gray and not black. Here is 2001 with the gray screen https://preview.redd.it/ccpk10omkcyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d390be48912f588584c9441636ee439e1dbccd3d
that's really great to see what covering even one wall and the screen does. I think if you have a bright enough projector then you will still have the brighter whites. what project is this? I'm running the BENQ HT3550. have you looked in the projector room paint that would be non reflective? seems like it might even be worth it for one wall if you didn't want to go too nuts at first.
This is the epson 3800 I’ve thought about paint, but I’m renting. I’ve wondered about wallpaper, but the missus is less than excited about doing something regarding the walls and ceiling
[удалено]
that's a really good idea. I'm definitely looking into this! when you did yours did you paint over the existing paint or did you need to do some prep?
I had a white pull down screen that developed bad waves so switched to a grey fixed. Immediate overall improvement. Even in full dark since my room has a lot of reflections.
I have been using a relatively cheap white Elite Screen for years, tempted to upgrade to a grey screen in my ambient-light controlled room.
What color are your walls and ceiling?
Back wall is a dark flat gray, walls are top-to-bottom black curtains. Ceiling is white - pending a paint job delayed by the energy required to cover everything before I paint.
Sounds good- watch some YouTube video comparisons between various shades and pick what you think is best to your room and preference.
I’ve been using a $200 elite pulldown also. It’s good, but maybe gray and upping price point would make it great?
I got just the right thing for your roof to avoid any light reflection there! Checkout my history of a post I just made. Lol. I'm not a bot btw :D It's some sticky fabric I got off Amazon. I will definitely look into getting a dark/grey screen once I switch my projector. It's got like 10 000 equivalent lamp hours on it so it's not the brightest projector currently and I think a white screen serves me better for now :D
Get a new bulb!
:D I've been debating that for a while but like I said my room is poorly ventilated and it gets pretty hot in the summer. Instead of buying a bulb for ~$150, thinking of selling the projector for ~$400, and get a 2060 which has led light For ~700. It's like an extra 150-200 bucks overall which I think is worth it? I appreciate your suggestion and opinion
If there were no context here, some of these comments would sound highly sus😂
"Years of a white WALL"... Some People really need a "little" longer... \^\_°
Hah! Finally realized what I had been missing
Did you lose significant brightness and color pop after the switch?
Still pretty vivid. I feel the gains in blacks and contrast is less than the loss in vividity and brightness.
The projector made him look very handsome
Is there any tangible difference between switching from white to a grey screen, and simply turning down the brightness of your projector?
Hard to tell- lots of variables. I’d check out some comparison vids on YouTube to see what would work best for your gear and room. For me- brightness would just increase the ambient light and reflections of light
I am looking for a screen. What screen did you go with?
This one is the 110” Silver Ticket Gray material screen. There are a ton of helpful youtube vids showcasing comparisons between screens. I’d check those out and consider your viewing conditions, then proceed from there
Awesome! I was literally looking at getting this one. Same one? https://preview.redd.it/k3k9ujv7zfyc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a0b81ab22b34070401aeaf928f8ab8e22e0ed2f
Exactly! And just double check the size of the wall against the size of the frame. The frame is larger than the screen. I couldn’t use the frame because while the screen fit perfectly- I had no room for the frame
Thanks. I think you sold me on it lol
Lol I am not sponsored!
https://preview.redd.it/cfy2qm42lgyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfeb8528c9801fc5120d8930cc57737e95b2daed
https://preview.redd.it/jv6guxi3lgyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82a62c8593a53be1d6883e6754ef41a5960ff978
The grey HC (High Contrast) Version is even better!
I’ll have to look into it. Definitely need a high quality screen
One detail— my screen came with a frame. While the screen fit my wall, my screen also came with a frame. The frame extended the size of the screen in total, and this did not fit my wall. Pay attention to screen size vs total frame size
Thanks for the info. I have to measure my wall and see. I think I’ll be alright.
Have any before pictures? Also what projector are you using with it?
https://preview.redd.it/ryvaj8g7bgyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9732d92b577b795c11b390a28bbbf89946f51aca After—
https://preview.redd.it/l0ql2lppagyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1071e556e73177ff380e94c5f6b93f28347bcf89 Here’s a typical look- colors were good, but everything is kind of washed out. Epson 3800 The brighter the scene- the more colors pop, but the more blacks are lost. It’s a balance thing
Nice improvement. Still have a white screen and looking to change, black fabric sits a few inches in front of the screen to cutdown the light which helps the screen stand out but still seeing the washed out image from the ceiling reflections. https://preview.redd.it/d28naam0ogyc1.jpeg?width=4030&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e2561dadc15795a30f9b23f44b3869e3f2b17f6 Older Epson Home Cinema 8350 (eco mode disabled).
https://preview.redd.it/coa0pm95bgyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5645ed34058f5862a3d03b2a40f3b34c37f29947 Another before
Would love to see a direct after comparison (same frame of content) if you are willing :)
https://preview.redd.it/5f4qlct6chyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2643f8435fee31864c75654294750e1c397a9c48
Champion. This is awesome to see. I just moved into my own home and have a 120” white screen in a dedicated cinema room. Im very happy with it but in a few years I might look at a grey screen too.
Happy viewing 😃
Went from wall - white - grey - white. I just like how the colours pop on white screen. Also on grey i got some hotspots. For me white is king.
I use my wall which is white 💀 I didn’t know I was missing something