There have been Nazis in the Texas scene since it’s existed. The good news is the trash takes itself out pretty fast. Call out to the Murphy’s Law show where someone pointed out a Hammerskin at a show in Austin the whole floor turned into a swarm beating.
You just have to be a bit careful if you are going to attack someone based on rumour and hearsay.
This girl, Sarah, who used to come out to shows and parties when we were teenagers, would pick a guy she decided she didn't like that night and tell every other guy that he sexually assaulted her, in an attempt to start a fight.
She loved the idea of people fighting because of her.
That's definitely not the norm. And it shouldn't be everyone's first thought when someone comes forward about being assaulted. But it also underscores the importance of not jumping straight to violence with no evidence.
Is the evidence not the giant nazi symbol on his wrist? I’m not attacking him, but if someone else sees him with the black sun on his arm and jumps him because of that, it’s kind of on him??
Yes, I addressed that already.
Obviously there is some very compelling evidence that this asshat is a racist neonazi.
By all means, smack some sense into him.
My comment was more general. Plenty of innocent people have been seriously injured or killed in the name of vigilante justice; because people don't always look for evidence before getting violent.
Absolutely, especially as there's historical precedence for that kind of tactic being used as a weapon against black men under the guise of "protecting white women" and also considering the current trend of MAGA types and conservatives referring to anyone even remotely trans-friendly as "groomers" or supporting grooming at the very least
all I saw on that dudes wrist was a black sun wheel. that symbol is older than nazis. has much older, pagan roots. I've seen Indians and other cultures use that symbol. he may or may not be a racist. either way, I'm not going to fight a racist at a show unless they are there starting shit.
I actually was a victim of that sort of slander. This girl that i was friends with made a pass at me and i shut her down because i wasnt sexually attracted to her. She called all her friends and said i raped her. I was living at a motel at the time, she lived across the hall. Her friends gathered down at the parking lot. It must have been about 40 dudes. Someone knocked on my door and told me about that. I got so pissed off that i immediately went down there into that crowd of people and said she was a liar and i would fight anyone who said different. And i told them that i would fight to the death. I was in a crowd of 40 dudes and no one took me up on my offer. I was pissed and showed it. Every one of those guys backed down. I dont care if you believe me or not. This is a true story
ive only seen a situation like this once but it was a drunken belligerent asshat who kept inviting himself to a dance up on some random girl, she nearly swung on him until a couple security guards scooped the dude up and 86d him, pretty satisfying to watch but watching that girl lay him out wouldve been awesome.
Late 80’s Houston there were some epic battles vs skinheads… those shits would show up at shows and try to stab people in the ass w icepicks in the pit etc
I’ve heard. I’ve heard shows in Dallas in the 90’s leading into the early 00’s was unpredictably violent with the nazi/bonehead presence.
I suspect they’re all still around just a little more quiet now.
Seem post about the Red Blood Club that I posted above. Since that incident, I have not seen/heard anything about Nazi Punks at Dallas shows, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
Or how about the MDC show at the Red Blood Club in Dallas? After being kicked out, two Nazis came back in swinging HEAVY DUTY chains at everyone in the room. I also believe (not positive) they stabbed the security that had removed them so they could regain access to the club. I have never been so scared in my life. The incident absolutely killed (no pun intended) a great, scrappy (and much needed in the area) Punk venue within a couple of weeks of the incident. That was in 2007, and we have yet to get another "proper" Punk space since. (Come at me Three Links fanatics.....GREAT shows, but shitty overpriced young-money bar and patrons)
The club is now just a generic venue called "RBC" and vowed to become the "White Claw Capital of Dallas" when the new owner re-vamped and re-opened the venue. Yeah.... Sounds like a fucking blast.
“After being kicked out, two Nazis came back in swinging HEAVY DUTY chains at everyone in the room. I also believe (not positive) they stabbed the security that had removed them so they could regain access to the club. I have never been so scared in my life.”
THANK YOU for sharing that part. It’s easy for people, especially younger people, to posture on the internet about violence. But when you are there in real life and people (whether you disagree with their ideals or not) are getting seriously fucked up, like beyond an assbeating - it *is* terrifying.
I personally can not get into the mindset of hurting random people whatsoever in a violent manner like that. I just don’t understand it and it’s one of the scariest things to me.
Some of the old ones slither out sometimes but people remember their faces.
It’s not smart for people like OP posted about to be overly comfortable being out in the open. The white power crews don’t have the numbers or the presence they used to.
im a black girl and i do not feel like being arrested for assault by our shitty local police department while he gets comforted, will definitely get someone else to do that though!
And saying that they, in fact, did beat them with a barstool does not help a fan against a nazi, and especially if that person is non-white and/or non-male.
What I mean by don't say shit is don't tell them what they did. Say the fucker tripped, or give them an alibi, never try and make an argument about the legality of what they did it only helps them twist words.
Edit: sorry, used my main account initially.
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but couldn't giving false information to the police like that get you in trouble? Like I get where you're coming from morally, but that seems like legally it could be a tightrope to walk. Then again asking a complete stranger on Reddit for legal advice might be a bad idea
Just print what you have here and place it up around shows and hand it to people. Let the rest handle itself and prepare for a shouting match just in case.
Dude you’re not gonna deal with cops. Is the new generation really this weak? I loved listening to l older black punks talk about fighting Nazis here in Toronto and as a POC you gotta get a hit in.
This type of person doesn't want a conversation with you. He wants to marginalize others and spread his cancer. Nazi punks used to show up at shows and jump black and brown punks all the time when I was coming up. They'll do it again if they're allowed.
No quarter for bigots. Introduce him to the bottoms of your boots.
Edit to add: if that's not your style, then just steering clear of assholes like him. Sorry if I came in hot.
What do you think will happen to a black female trying to get rid of Nazis in the US? Yes she has the right, but considering how cops treat POC, a white male should step up to deal with this. Use your privilege and protect POC.
Absolutely. Take out the fucking trash. If one of us isn’t safe, then none of us are safe and I can’t imagine I’m the only one who feels that way, but is too small to do anything about it
I love shows where everyone is unified against BS. I remember one VFW a XXX kid basically got trounced and tossed out for getting handsy with a 15yr old girl (granted this was back in the day, ain’t been to none recently that weren’t everyone doing bullshit for reactions 😑
Its good to post things like this. Even if you're not from Houston, you'll know who this little turd is if he tries to show up in your scene. Make these guys afraid to go anywhere.
It’s being shared throughout our community, I just wanted to post it here just in case. It’s mostly on instagram so it might not hit other places. (and also the search function on reddit makes it so that anyone can see this in the future if they search up houston in this subreddit)
Lol first thing I thought of too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badmotorfinger
"The Badmotorfinger logo on the cover of the album was drawn by guitarist Mark Dancey of the Sub Pop band Big Chief and consists of a jagged, cyclone-like design, in the center of which is a triangle that has the album's title along the interior perimeter and a spark plug in the middle."
Fair, but the sonnenrad specifically was invented by the Nazis, it's not an ancient symbol. Although certainly it's modeled after or is a variation on a swastika, which is. It also wasn't called the black sun until the 1990s.
Two things- That's not some new phenomenon. The NSDAP themselves used those emblems. It's not just down to misinformed Nazi kids in this modern era. AND when Europeans or people of European descent use ancestrally relevant symbols, that's not misappropriation, that's me using my own shit. Just because you don't like the politics of someone doesn't mean their use of it is not legit. I'm not appropriating European symbols as a white man anymore than I'm a thief if I walk into MY OWN kitchen and make a sandwich in MY OWN house.
At the risk of being unpopular, can I suggest that jumping people solely based on a social media post about them is not a good idea. For all you know some asshole has made this because he's bitter about the guy who's dating his ex.
Wait until they start shouting racist shit, then find a way to solve the problem.
Except it’s not.
> Because sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear.
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad
Ironically, the image they took the symbol from was the ADL page I linked that says it’s not exclusively a white supremacy symbol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/comments/1dy7td7/comment/lc6tqa0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
> they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear
* in a community that often attracts violence and nazism, in the south, on a guy with tear drop tats.
this is so boring. Is/was the swastika and black sun used in other cultures? Yes and maybe. But everyone in the west knows that after the 1920s this symbols meaning was completely determined by the nazis. We are not somewhere in asia where there is a complete different meaning associated with it. Even if you argue that this might be a guy who is into viking/northern lore, there are hundreds of runes he could use as a tatoo, but if he willingly decides to put 3 fucking swastikas on his arm, this guy is a nazi.
They're completely wrong, by the way, as they often are. There are no examples of the sonnenrad prior to the mosaic at Wewelsburg made by the Nazis. There are other, vaguely similar designs - swastikas, but that tattoo is exclusively a Nazi symbol.
Because I’ve seen these social media things kick off before and it’s been an angry ex girlfriend saying “this guys a paedo, jump him” or a stalker being like “this girls missing, please dm me if you see her” and this could easily be the same tbh
I’m not fighting to make excuses for nazis, if he is; fuck him, but I’d need a bit more than just this to start wailing on someone
I'm not telling anyone to jump straight to violence, but if you got a black sun tat and you're white....you're a nazi. Like if you got a tattoo of Hitler on you, maybe you're just really into WW2, but in reality you're just a Nazi.
“this guy is a pedo” is not the same as “this guy has a black sun tattoo and is known for trying to recruit people so stay away from him” 😭?
i genuinely don’t see how you could be in the scene and get a black sun tattoo by accident? you’d think he would know by now? like this could be so plausible if he didn’t literally have racist symbolism permanently embedded onto his wrist. it’s very clearly intentional.
this is a whole other conversation but i feel like sometimes people take too much time trying to give racists the benefit of the doubt. “she didn’t know the n word is bad” “they’re young, they don’t understand what they’re doing” etc. he is a grown ass man lol
Nobody is getting a sun wheel tattooed just because they picked it off of a wall or out of a book. That’s not something a regular tattoo artist would just do on a whim.
He literally has it tattooed on his forearm, are you fucking dense?
[And no, it's not an ambiguous symbol. That IS a Nazi symbol.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol))
I'd say the person who goes around punching people he's never met before, all because an internet stranger told him to, is the dense one tbh.
Someone shows up to a show (or anywhere else) showing off nazi symbols then yeah we have a problem.
But what if this picture is photoshopped by a disgruntled ex? What if this guy has a younger brother who looks like him?
I'm not making excuses for Nazis; I'm making excuses for people who may have been mislabelled as Nazis.
If you were in the same room as this guy it would take exactly 5 seconds to verify the claims being made. That's all I'm asking.
not photoshopped, there are multiple angles and images of him, there are a million white punks that look alike and this guy has face tattoos and the obvious tat on his wrist. nobody is going around jumping random people. and i, as a black person, am not walking up to a possible nazi to kindly ask if they are a nazi or not, and immediately make myself a target if they are.
again, he has a tattoo which is strictly used for nazi imagery as confirmed by multiple people. i trust fellow punks and i especially trust fellow black punks who speak out. if this was truly disgruntling him and wasn’t true, he could defend himself considering he’s definitely seen this post.
> Because sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear.
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad
ADL is going to be a more educated source, as opposed to an openly edited Wikipedia page. Remember, Nazis appropriated many symbols that mean things entirely different from what they tried to use them for. Context and totality of circumstances matter. Don’t go beating people solely for a tattoo (or really even an ideology, even if it is a disgusting, hateful, and ignorant one.)
Did you even read your own fucking quote? Note "Sonnenrad\*\*-like\*\*". The "black sun" is a family of folk symbols like the Slavic kolovrat, which is still used in Eastern European paganism (though its historicity is debated.)
This particular symbol he has tattooed, however, was an invention of the SS. To quote two paragraphs up from your own:
>The symbol's design consists of twelve radial sig runes, similar to the symbols employed by the SS in their logo. It first appeared in Nazi Germany as a design element in a castle at Wewelsburg remodeled and expanded by the head of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, which he intended to be a center for the SS.
Also:
>ADL is going to be a more educated source, as opposed to an openly edited Wikipedia page.
1. The page is protected.
2. The ADL was recently dropped as an approved Wikipedia source on the Gaza genocide, because they're **not a reliable source on antisemitism**.
thank you dude, why tf is everyone acting like this guy just loves his european roots SO much he got them tattooed visibly on his wrists to go to shows known for anti-nazism??? 😫 reddit does literally anything to argue, make excuses, and dig for defenses against racists. like let’s be serious and critically think on the context of this.
It says it was appropriated by nazis, just the way the swastika was. For centuries before nazis bastardized it, the swastika was a symbol of peace and love to Buddhists. Nazis could fuck up a wet dream!
eh, it’s not worth the risk. i’m not attacking him if i see him but i’m also not going up to him to ask if it’s true or not. more of a stay aware and stay away situation for me, especially because i attend shows with an all black friend group; and even more especially considering the black sun tat.
He's probably more experienced in fighting and has less to lose anyway. Which translates to, "you better be willing to fight until someone is hospitalized or dead if you start shit with him." You don't usually come out of prison softer after running with crews like that. The US prison tends to make people like him into more dangerous criminals with less empathy than when they went in.
Neat, now its only a matter of time till someone of us finds him and makes his face meet with the bar stool a couple of times, kinda wish i lived in Texas so i could do it myself)
Not sure if thats just me being lucky/unlucky or something, but nazis are farely rare to show up at shows here where i live, they prefer to wait for us after shows instead.
Fair that i might not be taking him down alone, but bars aren't an issue to me at all here, neither to my teenage friends. Not as if i had any studies to focus on in current state, i kinda just got to wait a year now and then i can do whatever after taking my papers from school.
Time for some of y’all to learn what it actually takes to get rid of someone from coming around to shows, it sure as hell ain’t posting about it on Reddit…
Nope. But you and the scene your from need to be prepared for everything that comes with forcing someone who’s like that and is connected to prison shit out of your scene.
Norse heathen here (the non-racist kind). The Anti-Defamation League is actually mistaken on this one. Despite using runes and Norse symbols, the Black Sun has never been found in any archaeological excavations of pre-Christian Germanic/Scandinavian sites. The sig rune itself is historic and represents seig (victory) and the sun, but the arrangement is not. The Black Sun is purely a Nazi SS invention used first in Himmler’s design of the Wewelsburg castle and connected to the Nazi occult appropriation of Nordic symbols in their development of an Aryan mythology. Its connection with the modern heavy metal community is usually a dog-whistle for white supremacy, something the metal scene struggles with.
I have no idea, I’m not the one that posted the original PSA. the OP is a black punk so I’m assuming they’ve had run ins with this guy and know the full context of the tattoo or his intention behind it. It’s probably similar to the nazi buddhist symbol mixup discourse.
Yeah I think OP is right tho. It isn't the speed metal symbol at least cause I just googled it and that has a very specific, different sign. Thanks for the genuine response though
One of the top Nazis designed the symbol (Himmler, maybe? Feel free to correct me)
The speed metal wheel is a different symbol someone literally got from a phonebook
I would start with an a cappella version of "[Nazi Punks Fuck Off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkRuV0aCcI)" in 4-part harmony while posturing myself as if I might not take it amiss were he to throw a punch at me.
He looks soft AF.
That’s completely untrue. The Sonnenrad is a fertility symbol that dates back to the 7th century AD. It was appropriate by the Nazis.
There are certain variations of the sonnenrad that are specific to the Nazis, but as a whole no it was not “invented” by the Nazis.
Sonnenrad means "sun wheel". The swastika is a sun wheel; yes, there are many similar ancient symbols. In modern Western usage "sonnenrad" refers specifically to that exact, specific Nazi symbol, which did not exist prior to the 1930s.
Maybe in Germany among anthropologists discussing ancient symbols that's different, idk, but not here.
No. In fact, in the same article on the Sonnenrad that is in this post ([link](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad)) it says “Because Sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear.”
Every time I see this, I remember the damages nazis did and do to other cultures by turning their symbols unacceptable. Runes, vikings symbols, svastikas, and so on, all were first part of a cultural heritage that's now collateral victim and yet to be hidden with shame while they had nothing to reproach.
Just tell him there are plenty of willing recruits in the 3rd and 5th wards. The only way to truly appreciate them is to go on foot at night.Very walkable area with plenty of street vendors.
I'm in Houston and you have to be beyond stupid to be a racist here, this city is a melting pot of different ethnicities. Is honestly the only thing I like about this shithole.
There's a bunch of weird Trump supporters punks here though, there's one band that claims to be libertarian but they're alt right af
This guy won't last long in Houston. Been to plenty of shows and seen plenty of people with the wrong idea get beat up and thrown out. Rednecks that think it's a metal show and they can just beat people up, Crusty Chuck who turned out to be a rapist and a Nazi (kind of an AJJ lyric). I remember when the queen of the SHARPs rose up with her group and beat the ever loving shit out of the original skinheads group in the area. There's a population of racists, but they always learn to GTFO or stay silent.
Yo have y'all considered talking to him like at least try to talk to him he might not be a complete lost cause yet better to try to convince him that he's wrong then beating him or yelling at him cuz that's just gonna convince him that he's right
Btw that tattoo on his arm could literally just be something he thought looked cool assuming it's some nazi shit is a stretch and just straight stupid I can't find the meaning of the scares but the tear just means he's killed someone
For what we know he might just be uneducated on race issues and a bit stupid so how about nobody beat him and instead try to talk to him and maybe help him out of the nazi shit if he is in it
There's an entire generation of you fa**ots who are so glad this isn't the 1980's anymore... You just don't know you're glad. First off this guy doesn't appear to be much but as we all know looks can be deceiving. I'm fairly cynical of the validity of what passes for a "Nazi" these days even if they openly proclaim that they are. The people who claim to be Nazis are a lot like the people who claim they'll fight Nazis (their only relevance is on the Internet). Wasn't the case in the 1980's/early 90's... I love that you little kids think you'd just walk up and attack an actual NS skinhead and that would be the end of it. This is how people end up getting their feelings hurt. Say what you want but these guys have BEEN about violence from the jump, you all just recently became emboldened and discovered the thrill of a good scrap. It's one thing to punch some goofball in a MAGA hat and tell yourself you just did your bit to fight fascism, but expect a different outcome if this were a legit WP skinhead. Just something to think about.
What? I grew up in the hardcore scene in Jax from '84-'88, and there would be full-on riots in the streets between confederate hammerskins versus literally ever single other type of person around. Punks, normal skins, rednecks, gay new wavers, goth people, black people listening to the Fat Boys: if they were in the vicinity, they'd band together to give these tykes an ass-whooping.
It was a huge, huge problem, and you're right, the violence was extreme and deadly. But "kids these days" say the same thing we said when we were kids; ie, Nazi punks fuck off. The only difference is that today's generation has an arsenal of weapons in the form of social media, so they know beforehand when the assholes come to town.
You are right that Nazi skins are violent and not to be taken lightly. But I take issue with your assertion that Nazi skins specifically are as violent and organized as they were in the '80s (I'm writing a book about this and have been doing a ton of research based on archival FBI and SPLC sources, local police reports, members of skinhead groups back then, and the bands that provided the soundtrack for all this violence.) The scene is much more fragmented and atomized than it it was back then, and racists have many more options for demonstrating their hatred than just lurking around in the parking lot of the local armory.
But mainly, I take issue with you calling people who are probably very similar to you and to me as far as their commitment to punching Nazis goes "little kids," and to discouraging them from conking a racist because they are younger than you. I'm also genuinely curious where and when you came up, what your experiences are, and whether you'd be willing to talk to me for the thing I'm writing. We ought to be encouraging these people to get out there and scrap, because I believe the children are our future. Not engaging in a dick-measuring contest because of the year we happened to be born in. I was a tiny 16-year-old girl back in 1985 when the 70 of us at the Black Flag concert beat the shit out of the Nazis who interrupted the show to beat the shit out of the band. I don't even have a dick, but mine is probably at least as long as yours.
Let me know if you want to talk to me. I'd love to hear your stories. And I hope you will encourage the youngins to follow in the old-heads' footsteps, because they are awesome, and we need them. They make me proud.
I made no assertion that skinheads are as organized/violent today as they were then (I know they aren't ) but that's only to the extent that they don't actually exist. And the key thing that I took from your above paragraph was that all those various folks would participate in a swarm beating. Yes. It TOOK all those "People" to do it. That's the sort of caliber of men you're dealing with.
This is what punk communities should always do. MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN!
There have been Nazis in the Texas scene since it’s existed. The good news is the trash takes itself out pretty fast. Call out to the Murphy’s Law show where someone pointed out a Hammerskin at a show in Austin the whole floor turned into a swarm beating.
yeah i think this guy is genuinely cooked if he shows up anywhere else 💀 the first show i went so someone got swung at for rape accusations, god bless
You just have to be a bit careful if you are going to attack someone based on rumour and hearsay. This girl, Sarah, who used to come out to shows and parties when we were teenagers, would pick a guy she decided she didn't like that night and tell every other guy that he sexually assaulted her, in an attempt to start a fight. She loved the idea of people fighting because of her. That's definitely not the norm. And it shouldn't be everyone's first thought when someone comes forward about being assaulted. But it also underscores the importance of not jumping straight to violence with no evidence.
Having said that, if someone is dumb enough to brand themself with a nazi tattoo, fill yer boots!
Is the evidence not the giant nazi symbol on his wrist? I’m not attacking him, but if someone else sees him with the black sun on his arm and jumps him because of that, it’s kind of on him??
Yes, I addressed that already. Obviously there is some very compelling evidence that this asshat is a racist neonazi. By all means, smack some sense into him. My comment was more general. Plenty of innocent people have been seriously injured or killed in the name of vigilante justice; because people don't always look for evidence before getting violent.
Absolutely, especially as there's historical precedence for that kind of tactic being used as a weapon against black men under the guise of "protecting white women" and also considering the current trend of MAGA types and conservatives referring to anyone even remotely trans-friendly as "groomers" or supporting grooming at the very least
all I saw on that dudes wrist was a black sun wheel. that symbol is older than nazis. has much older, pagan roots. I've seen Indians and other cultures use that symbol. he may or may not be a racist. either way, I'm not going to fight a racist at a show unless they are there starting shit.
I actually was a victim of that sort of slander. This girl that i was friends with made a pass at me and i shut her down because i wasnt sexually attracted to her. She called all her friends and said i raped her. I was living at a motel at the time, she lived across the hall. Her friends gathered down at the parking lot. It must have been about 40 dudes. Someone knocked on my door and told me about that. I got so pissed off that i immediately went down there into that crowd of people and said she was a liar and i would fight anyone who said different. And i told them that i would fight to the death. I was in a crowd of 40 dudes and no one took me up on my offer. I was pissed and showed it. Every one of those guys backed down. I dont care if you believe me or not. This is a true story
That's a psychopath
I can't argue with that
No you don’t also that guy acted in a way that was aggressive and quasi sexual I’m not saying he assaulted me but he made me feel unsafe
Where are you from if I may ask
Stop.
ive only seen a situation like this once but it was a drunken belligerent asshat who kept inviting himself to a dance up on some random girl, she nearly swung on him until a couple security guards scooped the dude up and 86d him, pretty satisfying to watch but watching that girl lay him out wouldve been awesome.
86 that stress away is what i always say
OP what is this content violation you received? I’ve never seen on like this before.
“Doxxing” 😭
Late 80’s Houston there were some epic battles vs skinheads… those shits would show up at shows and try to stab people in the ass w icepicks in the pit etc
I’ve heard. I’ve heard shows in Dallas in the 90’s leading into the early 00’s was unpredictably violent with the nazi/bonehead presence. I suspect they’re all still around just a little more quiet now.
Hammerskins in Deep Ellum
Yep.
Seem post about the Red Blood Club that I posted above. Since that incident, I have not seen/heard anything about Nazi Punks at Dallas shows, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
I was in one of those battles at the Axiom. The Bark Hard show in the lobby by the bar.
That takes me back, I remember getting chased down McKinney by a truckload of those shitheads one night
They still show up to shows in Long Beach with knives or picks. Fuckers
Or how about the MDC show at the Red Blood Club in Dallas? After being kicked out, two Nazis came back in swinging HEAVY DUTY chains at everyone in the room. I also believe (not positive) they stabbed the security that had removed them so they could regain access to the club. I have never been so scared in my life. The incident absolutely killed (no pun intended) a great, scrappy (and much needed in the area) Punk venue within a couple of weeks of the incident. That was in 2007, and we have yet to get another "proper" Punk space since. (Come at me Three Links fanatics.....GREAT shows, but shitty overpriced young-money bar and patrons) The club is now just a generic venue called "RBC" and vowed to become the "White Claw Capital of Dallas" when the new owner re-vamped and re-opened the venue. Yeah.... Sounds like a fucking blast.
“After being kicked out, two Nazis came back in swinging HEAVY DUTY chains at everyone in the room. I also believe (not positive) they stabbed the security that had removed them so they could regain access to the club. I have never been so scared in my life.” THANK YOU for sharing that part. It’s easy for people, especially younger people, to posture on the internet about violence. But when you are there in real life and people (whether you disagree with their ideals or not) are getting seriously fucked up, like beyond an assbeating - it *is* terrifying.
I personally can not get into the mindset of hurting random people whatsoever in a violent manner like that. I just don’t understand it and it’s one of the scariest things to me.
Yeah I grew up in Dallas and some bands like lagwagon and wouldn't even play there because of the hammer skins.
Some of the old ones slither out sometimes but people remember their faces. It’s not smart for people like OP posted about to be overly comfortable being out in the open. The white power crews don’t have the numbers or the presence they used to.
How it should be.
[удалено]
Mike, you’re a dork and your grammar is bad.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
i will certainly start screaming heinous things if i see him at any show soon
dont do that. just hit him with a barstool.
im a black girl and i do not feel like being arrested for assault by our shitty local police department while he gets comforted, will definitely get someone else to do that though!
Just saying, if I saw you hit a nazi over the head with a barstool, I wouldn't say shit. But keeping yourself away from shitass cops is important too.
>if I saw you hit a nazi over the head with a barstool I'd say that the nazi made death threats and the woman was acting out of fear for her life.
Don't say shit He slipped 🤷 Never talk to cops
>Don't say shit I feel obligated to help a fan against a nazi, and especially if that person is non-white and/or non-male.
And saying that they, in fact, did beat them with a barstool does not help a fan against a nazi, and especially if that person is non-white and/or non-male. What I mean by don't say shit is don't tell them what they did. Say the fucker tripped, or give them an alibi, never try and make an argument about the legality of what they did it only helps them twist words. Edit: sorry, used my main account initially.
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but couldn't giving false information to the police like that get you in trouble? Like I get where you're coming from morally, but that seems like legally it could be a tightrope to walk. Then again asking a complete stranger on Reddit for legal advice might be a bad idea
Unfortunately this doesn't usually work for black people. We don't get the benefit of the doubt.
I'd try anyway.
that’s fair.
I'll do it
Just print what you have here and place it up around shows and hand it to people. Let the rest handle itself and prepare for a shouting match just in case.
that’s smart!! i’ll do that, it’ll be a while till i can though cause of the hurricane :,(
Best of luck riding this one out. Sending love!
Dude you’re not gonna deal with cops. Is the new generation really this weak? I loved listening to l older black punks talk about fighting Nazis here in Toronto and as a POC you gotta get a hit in.
[удалено]
yes, all of the nazis left the scene because we asked nicely. i forgot that part of history.
I forgot the part where they actually left
The Nazis currently in the U.S. are wearing police uniforms because they're also *cops.*
How do you think Nazi punks got kicked out of the scene in the first place? They voluntarily left because they felt left out?
Found the pussy.
[удалено]
My bud over at the end won't tolerate his shit in his venue.
My first thought was also kick his ass. The types of people who cannot have a non aggressive conversation leave me only with violence as a solution.
This type of person doesn't want a conversation with you. He wants to marginalize others and spread his cancer. Nazi punks used to show up at shows and jump black and brown punks all the time when I was coming up. They'll do it again if they're allowed.
Yes. They’re low life trash.
No quarter for bigots. Introduce him to the bottoms of your boots. Edit to add: if that's not your style, then just steering clear of assholes like him. Sorry if I came in hot.
But also remember that anyone could be carrying a gun, and not all punk fans are white males. Advocating for violence is a privilege not everyone has.
Everyone has the right to get rid of Nazis
What do you think will happen to a black female trying to get rid of Nazis in the US? Yes she has the right, but considering how cops treat POC, a white male should step up to deal with this. Use your privilege and protect POC.
I just got off a 2 day ban for using my privilege here :) Oh and I don't worry I do. Especially since my partner is Amhara.
Let me correct it a bit: "if you see him at local shows, fuck him up"\*
And forcibly remove his ass from the venue afterwards. See if you can rally a group of people to help. Shouldn't be too hard.
Absolutely. Take out the fucking trash. If one of us isn’t safe, then none of us are safe and I can’t imagine I’m the only one who feels that way, but is too small to do anything about it
Exactly, together we can keep the scene safe and fun.
Keep my distance? Nah, I have a better idea.
Dude might end up recruiting some steel toe boots to join his ass.
I love shows where everyone is unified against BS. I remember one VFW a XXX kid basically got trounced and tossed out for getting handsy with a 15yr old girl (granted this was back in the day, ain’t been to none recently that weren’t everyone doing bullshit for reactions 😑
I saw some guy get manhandled by a drunk girl he decked in the face on purpose a few days ago LOL
Yeah fr you gotta be a lead singer and do it over text or aol instant messenger if you want underage girls in hardcore in the early aughts
Its good to post things like this. Even if you're not from Houston, you'll know who this little turd is if he tries to show up in your scene. Make these guys afraid to go anywhere.
Agreed. Once Houston punks give him the boot, he might move to a different city.
Probably would be more effective to share with locals
It’s being shared throughout our community, I just wanted to post it here just in case. It’s mostly on instagram so it might not hit other places. (and also the search function on reddit makes it so that anyone can see this in the future if they search up houston in this subreddit)
I literally just got back from a three day ban so obviously I can't say what I actually want to happen to this schmuck...but you can figure it out.
Looks like that one soundgarden album lol
Lol first thing I thought of too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badmotorfinger "The Badmotorfinger logo on the cover of the album was drawn by guitarist Mark Dancey of the Sub Pop band Big Chief and consists of a jagged, cyclone-like design, in the center of which is a triangle that has the album's title along the interior perimeter and a spark plug in the middle."
first thing that comes to mind too
I've always wondered about that.
I've got plenty of homies in the Houston area scene I'll have them keep a look out.
I deeply hate the misappropriation of Nordic religion into Nazism. People who do that kind of shit *are* shit.
Fair, but the sonnenrad specifically was invented by the Nazis, it's not an ancient symbol. Although certainly it's modeled after or is a variation on a swastika, which is. It also wasn't called the black sun until the 1990s.
Two things- That's not some new phenomenon. The NSDAP themselves used those emblems. It's not just down to misinformed Nazi kids in this modern era. AND when Europeans or people of European descent use ancestrally relevant symbols, that's not misappropriation, that's me using my own shit. Just because you don't like the politics of someone doesn't mean their use of it is not legit. I'm not appropriating European symbols as a white man anymore than I'm a thief if I walk into MY OWN kitchen and make a sandwich in MY OWN house.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I go to local punk shows all the time here in Houston. I think we all know what we have to do
This is one of the things that attracts me to this community. The consistent hatred towards Nazis. Fuck yea!
In the words of DK. Nazi punks $uck off!
Really, can we just be done with scumbags like this? Don’t avoid him, I employee someone to leave him under the next show he shows up at!
Let his ass know that shit isn’t tolerated
At the risk of being unpopular, can I suggest that jumping people solely based on a social media post about them is not a good idea. For all you know some asshole has made this because he's bitter about the guy who's dating his ex. Wait until they start shouting racist shit, then find a way to solve the problem.
Lol he literally has a huge black sun tatooed on his arm
right? i didnt wanna be rude but someone else confirmed that’s *only* seen in nazi ideology 😅
Except it’s not. > Because sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear. https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad Ironically, the image they took the symbol from was the ADL page I linked that says it’s not exclusively a white supremacy symbol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/punk/comments/1dy7td7/comment/lc6tqa0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button > they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear * in a community that often attracts violence and nazism, in the south, on a guy with tear drop tats.
this is so boring. Is/was the swastika and black sun used in other cultures? Yes and maybe. But everyone in the west knows that after the 1920s this symbols meaning was completely determined by the nazis. We are not somewhere in asia where there is a complete different meaning associated with it. Even if you argue that this might be a guy who is into viking/northern lore, there are hundreds of runes he could use as a tatoo, but if he willingly decides to put 3 fucking swastikas on his arm, this guy is a nazi.
They're completely wrong, by the way, as they often are. There are no examples of the sonnenrad prior to the mosaic at Wewelsburg made by the Nazis. There are other, vaguely similar designs - swastikas, but that tattoo is exclusively a Nazi symbol.
You’d be surprised the dumb shit people get tattooed that they have no idea about
why are you fighting so hard to make excuses for this?
Because I’ve seen these social media things kick off before and it’s been an angry ex girlfriend saying “this guys a paedo, jump him” or a stalker being like “this girls missing, please dm me if you see her” and this could easily be the same tbh I’m not fighting to make excuses for nazis, if he is; fuck him, but I’d need a bit more than just this to start wailing on someone
I'm not telling anyone to jump straight to violence, but if you got a black sun tat and you're white....you're a nazi. Like if you got a tattoo of Hitler on you, maybe you're just really into WW2, but in reality you're just a Nazi.
“this guy is a pedo” is not the same as “this guy has a black sun tattoo and is known for trying to recruit people so stay away from him” 😭? i genuinely don’t see how you could be in the scene and get a black sun tattoo by accident? you’d think he would know by now? like this could be so plausible if he didn’t literally have racist symbolism permanently embedded onto his wrist. it’s very clearly intentional. this is a whole other conversation but i feel like sometimes people take too much time trying to give racists the benefit of the doubt. “she didn’t know the n word is bad” “they’re young, they don’t understand what they’re doing” etc. he is a grown ass man lol
You would not believe the amount of dumbass regrettable tattoos I have seen in my years in the punk scene, picked straight out of a flash book.
and he cant cover it with bracelets? wear a long sleeve? get a cover up?
Nobody is getting a sun wheel tattooed just because they picked it off of a wall or out of a book. That’s not something a regular tattoo artist would just do on a whim.
Then he should cover it But he doesn't.
Well I hope he learns tough lesson real soon.
He literally has it tattooed on his forearm, are you fucking dense? [And no, it's not an ambiguous symbol. That IS a Nazi symbol.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol))
Confirmed by a German, not an ancient European symbol, just pure Nazi shit
Also confirmed by a Norse Heathen, we explicitly *don't* use Nazi shit in our practice.
I'd say the person who goes around punching people he's never met before, all because an internet stranger told him to, is the dense one tbh. Someone shows up to a show (or anywhere else) showing off nazi symbols then yeah we have a problem. But what if this picture is photoshopped by a disgruntled ex? What if this guy has a younger brother who looks like him? I'm not making excuses for Nazis; I'm making excuses for people who may have been mislabelled as Nazis. If you were in the same room as this guy it would take exactly 5 seconds to verify the claims being made. That's all I'm asking.
not photoshopped, there are multiple angles and images of him, there are a million white punks that look alike and this guy has face tattoos and the obvious tat on his wrist. nobody is going around jumping random people. and i, as a black person, am not walking up to a possible nazi to kindly ask if they are a nazi or not, and immediately make myself a target if they are. again, he has a tattoo which is strictly used for nazi imagery as confirmed by multiple people. i trust fellow punks and i especially trust fellow black punks who speak out. if this was truly disgruntling him and wasn’t true, he could defend himself considering he’s definitely seen this post.
> Because sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear. https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad ADL is going to be a more educated source, as opposed to an openly edited Wikipedia page. Remember, Nazis appropriated many symbols that mean things entirely different from what they tried to use them for. Context and totality of circumstances matter. Don’t go beating people solely for a tattoo (or really even an ideology, even if it is a disgusting, hateful, and ignorant one.)
Did you even read your own fucking quote? Note "Sonnenrad\*\*-like\*\*". The "black sun" is a family of folk symbols like the Slavic kolovrat, which is still used in Eastern European paganism (though its historicity is debated.) This particular symbol he has tattooed, however, was an invention of the SS. To quote two paragraphs up from your own: >The symbol's design consists of twelve radial sig runes, similar to the symbols employed by the SS in their logo. It first appeared in Nazi Germany as a design element in a castle at Wewelsburg remodeled and expanded by the head of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, which he intended to be a center for the SS. Also: >ADL is going to be a more educated source, as opposed to an openly edited Wikipedia page. 1. The page is protected. 2. The ADL was recently dropped as an approved Wikipedia source on the Gaza genocide, because they're **not a reliable source on antisemitism**.
thank you dude, why tf is everyone acting like this guy just loves his european roots SO much he got them tattooed visibly on his wrists to go to shows known for anti-nazism??? 😫 reddit does literally anything to argue, make excuses, and dig for defenses against racists. like let’s be serious and critically think on the context of this.
It says it was appropriated by nazis, just the way the swastika was. For centuries before nazis bastardized it, the swastika was a symbol of peace and love to Buddhists. Nazis could fuck up a wet dream!
I do find it ironic that we hate nazis so much, but people totally condone them stealing symbols and such and just let them get away with it.
eh, it’s not worth the risk. i’m not attacking him if i see him but i’m also not going up to him to ask if it’s true or not. more of a stay aware and stay away situation for me, especially because i attend shows with an all black friend group; and even more especially considering the black sun tat.
He's probably more experienced in fighting and has less to lose anyway. Which translates to, "you better be willing to fight until someone is hospitalized or dead if you start shit with him." You don't usually come out of prison softer after running with crews like that. The US prison tends to make people like him into more dangerous criminals with less empathy than when they went in.
He looks soft AF to me.
Well have at it.
Cheers!
Nah he is just a piece of shit and should be treated as such.
Dude has a black sun tattoo that he wears proudly. There's not many assumptions here.
The fucking black sun, I see that shit everyday in Ukraine
You could DM this to TripSixHTX on insta if they aren’t already informed
Neat, now its only a matter of time till someone of us finds him and makes his face meet with the bar stool a couple of times, kinda wish i lived in Texas so i could do it myself) Not sure if thats just me being lucky/unlucky or something, but nazis are farely rare to show up at shows here where i live, they prefer to wait for us after shows instead.
[удалено]
Fair that i might not be taking him down alone, but bars aren't an issue to me at all here, neither to my teenage friends. Not as if i had any studies to focus on in current state, i kinda just got to wait a year now and then i can do whatever after taking my papers from school.
Time for some of y’all to learn what it actually takes to get rid of someone from coming around to shows, it sure as hell ain’t posting about it on Reddit…
do you want me to personally hunt him down myself? getting the word around is what helps others identify him.
Nope. But you and the scene your from need to be prepared for everything that comes with forcing someone who’s like that and is connected to prison shit out of your scene.
I know Houston and the punx there. He'll get dealt with soon enough.
Ok genuine question I also thought it was a religious symbol as well as a symbol for Speed Metal
Norse heathen here (the non-racist kind). The Anti-Defamation League is actually mistaken on this one. Despite using runes and Norse symbols, the Black Sun has never been found in any archaeological excavations of pre-Christian Germanic/Scandinavian sites. The sig rune itself is historic and represents seig (victory) and the sun, but the arrangement is not. The Black Sun is purely a Nazi SS invention used first in Himmler’s design of the Wewelsburg castle and connected to the Nazi occult appropriation of Nordic symbols in their development of an Aryan mythology. Its connection with the modern heavy metal community is usually a dog-whistle for white supremacy, something the metal scene struggles with.
I have no idea, I’m not the one that posted the original PSA. the OP is a black punk so I’m assuming they’ve had run ins with this guy and know the full context of the tattoo or his intention behind it. It’s probably similar to the nazi buddhist symbol mixup discourse.
Yeah I think OP is right tho. It isn't the speed metal symbol at least cause I just googled it and that has a very specific, different sign. Thanks for the genuine response though
One of the top Nazis designed the symbol (Himmler, maybe? Feel free to correct me) The speed metal wheel is a different symbol someone literally got from a phonebook
Look at those titties!
Used to love being a SHARP with high numbers in my city. We got the riff raff out quick and they rarely cane back for more.
I don't see any tattoos under his cheek... Unless it's not his face cheek...?
Are we not jumping these dudes till they stop showing up anymore? Or is that just a northeast thing?
I would start with an a cappella version of "[Nazi Punks Fuck Off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkRuV0aCcI)" in 4-part harmony while posturing myself as if I might not take it amiss were he to throw a punch at me. He looks soft AF.
Is the Sonnenrad always a bonehead/nazi symbol or could it be neutral as well? I know the Volksnuss symbol can go either way. Just curious.
Sonnenrad was invented by Nazis, not an old Norse symbol
I guess you could call that damning evidence then.
That’s completely untrue. The Sonnenrad is a fertility symbol that dates back to the 7th century AD. It was appropriate by the Nazis. There are certain variations of the sonnenrad that are specific to the Nazis, but as a whole no it was not “invented” by the Nazis.
Sonnenrad means "sun wheel". The swastika is a sun wheel; yes, there are many similar ancient symbols. In modern Western usage "sonnenrad" refers specifically to that exact, specific Nazi symbol, which did not exist prior to the 1930s. Maybe in Germany among anthropologists discussing ancient symbols that's different, idk, but not here.
No. In fact, in the same article on the Sonnenrad that is in this post ([link](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/sonnenrad)) it says “Because Sonnenrad imagery is used by many cultures around the world, one should not assume that most sonnenrad-like images necessarily denote racism or white supremacy; rather, they should be analyzed carefully in the context in which they appear.”
Why is it that the Ubermensch always look like this?
Every time I see this, I remember the damages nazis did and do to other cultures by turning their symbols unacceptable. Runes, vikings symbols, svastikas, and so on, all were first part of a cultural heritage that's now collateral victim and yet to be hidden with shame while they had nothing to reproach.
sure is a lot of poc in that Pic considering he doesn't want to be around them
it’s houston, there’s going to be poc everywhere. there arent whites only punk shows.
All it needs now is “if you do not forward this image to 25 people in the next 10 minutes he’s gonna SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR.”
Just tell him there are plenty of willing recruits in the 3rd and 5th wards. The only way to truly appreciate them is to go on foot at night.Very walkable area with plenty of street vendors.
I'm in Houston and you have to be beyond stupid to be a racist here, this city is a melting pot of different ethnicities. Is honestly the only thing I like about this shithole. There's a bunch of weird Trump supporters punks here though, there's one band that claims to be libertarian but they're alt right af
Stay tf away more like grab some friends and get closer
NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF!!!!!!!
I think that dude is just looking for a bra.
By far the toughest comment section I’ve ever seen 🤓 Ya’ll are cool!
The only good nazi is a….
Looks Hispanic, true white power dude would never accept him
You guys are fucking scary
This guy won't last long in Houston. Been to plenty of shows and seen plenty of people with the wrong idea get beat up and thrown out. Rednecks that think it's a metal show and they can just beat people up, Crusty Chuck who turned out to be a rapist and a Nazi (kind of an AJJ lyric). I remember when the queen of the SHARPs rose up with her group and beat the ever loving shit out of the original skinheads group in the area. There's a population of racists, but they always learn to GTFO or stay silent.
Nazis in punk??? 🫣🫣🫣
Yo have y'all considered talking to him like at least try to talk to him he might not be a complete lost cause yet better to try to convince him that he's wrong then beating him or yelling at him cuz that's just gonna convince him that he's right Btw that tattoo on his arm could literally just be something he thought looked cool assuming it's some nazi shit is a stretch and just straight stupid I can't find the meaning of the scares but the tear just means he's killed someone For what we know he might just be uneducated on race issues and a bit stupid so how about nobody beat him and instead try to talk to him and maybe help him out of the nazi shit if he is in it
yes bro, let me (a black girl) walk up to him and ask him if he’s actually a nice person and not a nazi, this will go so well for me 🙏 thanks man
Punk ?
Kick his fucking ass
The people in the background look racist too 😂
Houston, get your stomping boots on
There's an entire generation of you fa**ots who are so glad this isn't the 1980's anymore... You just don't know you're glad. First off this guy doesn't appear to be much but as we all know looks can be deceiving. I'm fairly cynical of the validity of what passes for a "Nazi" these days even if they openly proclaim that they are. The people who claim to be Nazis are a lot like the people who claim they'll fight Nazis (their only relevance is on the Internet). Wasn't the case in the 1980's/early 90's... I love that you little kids think you'd just walk up and attack an actual NS skinhead and that would be the end of it. This is how people end up getting their feelings hurt. Say what you want but these guys have BEEN about violence from the jump, you all just recently became emboldened and discovered the thrill of a good scrap. It's one thing to punch some goofball in a MAGA hat and tell yourself you just did your bit to fight fascism, but expect a different outcome if this were a legit WP skinhead. Just something to think about.
What? I grew up in the hardcore scene in Jax from '84-'88, and there would be full-on riots in the streets between confederate hammerskins versus literally ever single other type of person around. Punks, normal skins, rednecks, gay new wavers, goth people, black people listening to the Fat Boys: if they were in the vicinity, they'd band together to give these tykes an ass-whooping. It was a huge, huge problem, and you're right, the violence was extreme and deadly. But "kids these days" say the same thing we said when we were kids; ie, Nazi punks fuck off. The only difference is that today's generation has an arsenal of weapons in the form of social media, so they know beforehand when the assholes come to town. You are right that Nazi skins are violent and not to be taken lightly. But I take issue with your assertion that Nazi skins specifically are as violent and organized as they were in the '80s (I'm writing a book about this and have been doing a ton of research based on archival FBI and SPLC sources, local police reports, members of skinhead groups back then, and the bands that provided the soundtrack for all this violence.) The scene is much more fragmented and atomized than it it was back then, and racists have many more options for demonstrating their hatred than just lurking around in the parking lot of the local armory. But mainly, I take issue with you calling people who are probably very similar to you and to me as far as their commitment to punching Nazis goes "little kids," and to discouraging them from conking a racist because they are younger than you. I'm also genuinely curious where and when you came up, what your experiences are, and whether you'd be willing to talk to me for the thing I'm writing. We ought to be encouraging these people to get out there and scrap, because I believe the children are our future. Not engaging in a dick-measuring contest because of the year we happened to be born in. I was a tiny 16-year-old girl back in 1985 when the 70 of us at the Black Flag concert beat the shit out of the Nazis who interrupted the show to beat the shit out of the band. I don't even have a dick, but mine is probably at least as long as yours. Let me know if you want to talk to me. I'd love to hear your stories. And I hope you will encourage the youngins to follow in the old-heads' footsteps, because they are awesome, and we need them. They make me proud.
I made no assertion that skinheads are as organized/violent today as they were then (I know they aren't ) but that's only to the extent that they don't actually exist. And the key thing that I took from your above paragraph was that all those various folks would participate in a swarm beating. Yes. It TOOK all those "People" to do it. That's the sort of caliber of men you're dealing with.
im not reading all that
…what?
It’s me. Do your worst
boy no it’s not 😭😭 get a grip
🤓👆
All these wannabe tough guys in the online punk scene. If you were as tough as you act online then there wouldn’t be Nazis in the punk scene.