Arthur:Mr. Downes! we need tha-
Mr downes: *cough*
Arthur: *dies*
Edit:how the hell did this foolish comment get so many upvotes fellers? I just realized that it got more upvotes than the actual post š
Jack.
If Jack wasn't with Arthur during the fishing mission, Arthur would've terminated the two Pinkerton officers.
Edit: Milton and Ross, who were key people.
is it where he places his hand above his revolver but then he looks at jack and he picks up the fishing stuff? just looked it up on youtube. Amazing detail
that won't change the outcome though.
Milton and Ross are just the appointed Pinkertons doing what the rich told them to do, if Arthur kills them, there will just be more Pinkertons, more laws, and eventually, the army, and the gang will literally get wiped if the army shows up.
it'll only be worse imo.
Milton goes to confront Arthur and gives him a chance, if Arthur kills Milton and Ross, that will literally be him declaring war against the Pinkertons and laws.
I think by starting that confrontation earlier, it would have kept the gang together longer, since they would all be fighting for a common cause. Maybe they'd die for it but that might've been better than what happened otherwise.
Probably worse, Milton, despite being the scumbag he is, gave the gang chances. He acted within the law when given the chance, he let Molly go, presumably because he could only legally hold her for so long.
Killing them would just make the gang come down harder and with less chances.
I mean, Milton was probably only comfortable with his back turned on Arthur because he knew western outlaws had honor and wouldn't commit murder in front of a 4 year old. If Jack wasn't there Milton would've took more precautions to make sure Arthur never got that chance. Milton seemed pretty honorable to, Jacks presence was probably what stopped Milton from having Ross shoot Arthur the second he turned down his deal.
*Gunslingers* had honor and Arthur absolutely wasnāt a gunslinger. He outright tells Theodore Levin this in The Noblest of Men, and a Woman side mission. In fact he even says he shoots people in the back. Besides in the cutscene you can see Arthur reaching for his gun before he remembers Jack is with him.
And Milton is absolutely not honorable LMFAO. At that point in the story all he cared about was getting Dutch which is something he even tells Arthur. Thatās why he was more ārespectfulā. Milton sure as shit wasnāt honorable when he had Lakay shot up knowing damn well a 4 year old was there and could have been a casualty. He sure as hell wasnāt honorable when he had Abigail tied to a chair with the full intention of killing her.
I called him an outlaw, not a gunslinger. Why is Milton willing to spare everyone except Dutch if he isn't honorable? Why didn't he have Ross shoot Arthur when he had the chance? Bros just doing his job lol. He had no intention of killing Abigail. He tried questioning Molly and when she refused he let her go. Why would it be any different with Abigail? He had already warned them twice before shooting up Lakay. Once at the end of Chapter 3, and another right before.
I know what you called him. I was saying that Outlaws werenāt the ones with honor is that period, gunslingers were. Colm OāDriscoll was an outlaw and he sure as shit didnāt have any honor. On the other hand however Emmet Granger was a piece of shit but still had enough honor to where he dueled Arthur instead of just shooting him because he was gunslinger.
He wasnāt honorable for offering a deal to the other members of the gang because he didnāt do it cause the kindness of his heart, he did it because they didnāt matter to him. He didnāt care about anyone but Dutch despite there being bounty posters for Hosea and Arthur because he knew Dutch was the leader. Cut the head off the snake and all. Hell, Milton didnāt know what Hosea looked like or who John even was. Thatās how unimportant they were to him. Itās the same reason why he let Molly go. The moment he felt disrespected by them refusing to take his offer however he was dead set on killing them all. It doesnāt matter if he gave them two warnings about what he was planning to do. He still knew full well that a literal child and several other members whoās worst crimes were at most pickpocketing were in those buildings and still shot it up. Thatās not honorable no matter how you try to slice it.
And what do you mean he had no intention of killing Abigail? He intended on killing everyone in that room! Itās the whole reason why he felt comfortable enough to tell Arthur that Micah was a rat! Because he thought he won and didnāt plan on letting him, Abigail, or Sadie leave alive.
Outlaws from the west did have honor. Colm was an exception. Most wouldn't shoot or rob anything where women and children were involved. Yes he was doing it out of kindness, he feels bad that they've been mislead and brainwashed by Dutch. Thats why he says "Who made you the messiah to these lost souls you've lead so horribly ashtray." Arthurs bounty is $5000, and Hoseas is probably even higher. Milton has no reason to throw away $5000+ if not for honor. So Arthur suddenly mattered to him once he found out that he was already dying? Abigail is a prostitute, Molly is his main targets girlfriend. Tell me again who matters more? If he let Molly go he was definitely going to let Abigail go lol. Jack isn't even tall enough to get shot by the gatling gun lmao. Those were likely warning shots to, as he knows they are still alive once he stops firing. Honor only goes to some extent. By that logic, high honor Arthur isn't honorable either. Hes still murdering like 80% of the FBI even on his death bed.
Possibly, but then they'd have just been replaced, the hunt would still be on. After Milton's death the Pinks still gave chase, If it wasn't Ross then it would be whoever else was next in line.
I think Arthur is also smart enough not to kill Milton and Ross right there and then since the camp is crazy near so killing (presumably) two high ranking agents will make that general area and valentine a pretty hot spot way too soon
Yep, same reason he lets Jimmy Brooks go (if you choose that path). The whole town saw Arthur take off after him - it would've been a big deal if his body had been found at the bottom of a cliff later that day. I always think that shouldn't have been a choice since Arthur was big on keeping things quiet - when he wasn't drinking anyway lol
Just like they could have down when they conveniently walked into the camp that one time and then the whole gang just let them walk out. Wouldnāt it be a bit beneficial to just shoot them?
A bit salty, aren't you? I said what I saw in that scene, you are the one with the delusions. How would you know if there were more Pinkertons around there? And if there were, how would you know all the different events that could've happened? Jack's presence in that scene is important.
Well, if you played the game you would see that even off-cutscenes (when you gather enough bounty) Pinkertons ALWAYS show up in numbers, not just two guys walking up to a guy whose bounty is apparently 5K dollars, which was huge back then. And if you dont agree with my logic, then it also applies to your logic, that Arthur didnt react exactly because Jack was there, which you wouldnt know is the reason why he didnt react...
Story and gameplay are two different things, you know. Arthur has a bounty set on him because of lore reasons. It affects the map and that's it. If story and gameplay were to be the same, then Pinkertons would've been chasing Arthur non-stop at every town he goes to. Which isn't the case, as you would already know if you played the game.
All these things that you are saying are presumptions and nothing more. I said what I saw in the scene and expressed Jack's importance in the story.
True, Milton and Ross were most likely not alone. But if Arthur was killed that day, it means that John, Abigail, and Jack would not have been able to escape the gang and eventually start their ranch. So, the events of rdr1 would not even have happened.
Playing through the series with my gf and The Stranger was our favorite side character by far. Except maybe Seth and Irish. Me personally I wish we saw more Jonah and Eli.
Iāll never forget my jackass pre-med roomie cutting in to say that eyes donāt have tendons. If Heidiās eye was hanging by anything, it was by the optic nerve.
Thomas Downes of course for obvious reasons, but also Leviticus Cornwall. Cornwall only has probably a few minutes of screen time, but heās the force behind a lot of what happens to the gang.
The only times I remember him onscreen are outside the saloon in Valentine, which was less than a minute, and then on the boat in Annesburg which maybe lasted a couple of minutes. I'm just saying that I have well over a thousand hours playing this game and I'm wondering if I've forgotten some other time when he was on screen for a long time?
You don't have to worry about being that guy because you're totally wrong. Cornwall is only on screen like two to three times. And those cutscenes with him are barely like two or three minutes each.
This is my answer. Cornwall and Downes are correct as well, but they drive the "physical" plot/narrative portion of the story. She's the lynchpin for the emotional turning point that drives the character portion towards the promised land. "Take a gamble that love exists, and do a loving act."
Seconding this. The "take a gamble that love exists" line is one of the most hard-hitting quotes in the entire game, and for me was the thing that solidified Arthur's ultimate redemption arc. Plus she's just cool AF.
Heidi McCourt, the girl Dutch shot at Blackwater. Literally zero seconds of screentime but one of the most important characters in the story of both games.
It has been a decade since I played the first game too so I don't remember either lmao.
But basically what I was trying to say is:
Heidi is killed by Dutch in Blackwater -> The gang is forced to run away and into hiding + the Pinkertons are on their trail -> Yadda yadda yadda the gang is fucked up and the ones that lived wish revenge on Micah -> John kills Micah -> Micah's death puts the Bureau on John's trail -> events of Red Dead Redemption.
So everything is a consequence of the botched Blackwater Robbery/Heidi's death.
Do we know enough about the Blackwater job to say that for certain? Maybe the job still goes bad and the story still plays out regardless of whether he kills her?
>Do we know enough about the Blackwater job to say that for certain?
No because the situation as a whole is pretty shady, but it is heavily implied that Dutch shooting her made the situation a thousand times worse than it would if they just failed to rob the ferry or something like that.
I think it was also the first time the gang saw Dutch was willing to kill in cold blood forgetting all the nonsense about being "moral" by only robbing the rich
He completely abandoned everyone he loved, started going on murderous temper tantrums, tried to kill John in the second game multiple times while intentionally killing tons of civilians for no reason and in both games he takes advantage of multiple minority groups for his own personal gain and abandoned all his "morals" because *he* got his own best friend killed and blamed it on everyone around him endangering everyone, killed old all of the braithwaits because he was careless and got jack kidnapped, killed multiple sheriff's and robbed banks killing hundreds of innocent people in the process, stole from struggling parents dooming their children for death, and crippling local economies abd you wanna say he isn't at least slightly like a villain?
I donāt know how many times it needs to be said but the entire gang are villains. Theyāre rotten bastards but people get caught up with Arthurās redemption arc like it actually makes up for all of the cold blooded killing he happily did for years.
Some are worse than others obviously but by and large they are not good or righteous people.
Tilly and Jack can get a pass but Pearson willingly went along with the gang for a long time knowing damn well they were doing terrible things. He kept them nice and fed so they could continue to pillage the surrounding communities.
Heās one of the least bad but still not exactly a good dude.
LENNY MY BOAH!
I like Pearson too, I just think itās kind of silly that people gloss over Arthurās and several other gang memberās misdeeds because they eventually ādid the right thing.ā
I dont mind being downvoted beyond all reason. I just think we should think about this critticaly:
Thsi Video might help u verify or change your oppinion:
https://youtu.be/l2z5yBqcnbw?si=JXybIusUTo-y8xnG
You have a good point. But also (i may be way off on this one) we dont know the background. Who was this girl and what happend before he killed her? Im not saying that it was okay for him to kill her like that, but we dont know the baackstory. Or maybe its just me.
It sure does. I agree with you. Him trusting Micah in any way makes him a bad person imo. Man, i absolutely hate that rat. What a parasite. Works me up even thinking about him.
Dutch was slipping into insanity long before the head injury. The tram crash and Hosea's death were merely accelerants, much like the exertions of Guarma accelerated Arthur's tuberculosis.
Sad to think about arthurs demise. I feel so much for Arthur. I legit looked up to him.
Cryed my eyes out when he died looking at the sunrise. Geez, even now it stirs me up.
I mean, Dutch is a gang leader who, at the very least, hurt and robbed people. Sure, he used to help people as well, but Dutch doesnāt mind Arthur just killing those people in the train. He doesnāt mind that the gang sometimes kills people for money, people that donāt deserve to die. He doesnāt mind the loan sharking, robbing, and more. Likeā¦ the gang isnāt good people, that is the point.
This isnāt even mentioning that he is a straight up villain in the 1st game.
I would say Cornwall, he's breifly in two scenes and probably gets about a minute of dialogue altogether. The gang were on the run prior to robbing his train, yet they'd severed any chance of going off grid once they provoked him into hiring the Pinkertons.
Hosea states to Dutch that he'd doom the gang if he targeted Cornwall. With his financial backing, the Pinkertons were far more able and numerous to give chase and flush the gang out. Yes there was BW, yet Cornwall set the stage for the hunt that spanned throughout the game.
Leviticus Cornwall. He is mentioned by name multiple times and only shows up in chapter 6. He's the one who hires the Pinkertons in the first place and there are multiple missions where we rob him. So yeah, i'd say him.
Sauron from lord of the rings.
Heās the biggest example.
Lord of the rings influenced red dead redemption writers into writing western stories for video games
Arthur:Mr. Downes! we need tha- Mr downes: *cough* Arthur: *dies* Edit:how the hell did this foolish comment get so many upvotes fellers? I just realized that it got more upvotes than the actual post š
This is the only correct answer
(Baby villager death sound)
Came here to write Lenny, saw this, and realized nothing else compared.
āI got itā¦ beating a man, for a few bucksā
Remember! It was for Strauss ma boah š¤
The only time where the coughing baby wins
Jack. If Jack wasn't with Arthur during the fishing mission, Arthur would've terminated the two Pinkerton officers. Edit: Milton and Ross, who were key people.
That's right. He is going into dead eye as they walk off, then stops when he remembers Jack is there.
Holy shit, I never noticed that before, but you're right. That's awesome detail!
is it where he places his hand above his revolver but then he looks at jack and he picks up the fishing stuff? just looked it up on youtube. Amazing detail
Yeah that's it, reaching for his gun to shoot!
Yeah. The camera even starts to do the little zoom out thing it does when you get into fights in other missions, but it stops once Jack talks.
that won't change the outcome though. Milton and Ross are just the appointed Pinkertons doing what the rich told them to do, if Arthur kills them, there will just be more Pinkertons, more laws, and eventually, the army, and the gang will literally get wiped if the army shows up.
I'm not saying things would've been better than it was, I'm just saying things would've been different. Better or worse, who knows?
it'll only be worse imo. Milton goes to confront Arthur and gives him a chance, if Arthur kills Milton and Ross, that will literally be him declaring war against the Pinkertons and laws.
I think by starting that confrontation earlier, it would have kept the gang together longer, since they would all be fighting for a common cause. Maybe they'd die for it but that might've been better than what happened otherwise.
Might have pushed some to leave Dutch and his far reaching plans for something more concrete and immediate.
Probably worse, Milton, despite being the scumbag he is, gave the gang chances. He acted within the law when given the chance, he let Molly go, presumably because he could only legally hold her for so long. Killing them would just make the gang come down harder and with less chances.
Thats right
I mean, Milton was probably only comfortable with his back turned on Arthur because he knew western outlaws had honor and wouldn't commit murder in front of a 4 year old. If Jack wasn't there Milton would've took more precautions to make sure Arthur never got that chance. Milton seemed pretty honorable to, Jacks presence was probably what stopped Milton from having Ross shoot Arthur the second he turned down his deal.
*Gunslingers* had honor and Arthur absolutely wasnāt a gunslinger. He outright tells Theodore Levin this in The Noblest of Men, and a Woman side mission. In fact he even says he shoots people in the back. Besides in the cutscene you can see Arthur reaching for his gun before he remembers Jack is with him. And Milton is absolutely not honorable LMFAO. At that point in the story all he cared about was getting Dutch which is something he even tells Arthur. Thatās why he was more ārespectfulā. Milton sure as shit wasnāt honorable when he had Lakay shot up knowing damn well a 4 year old was there and could have been a casualty. He sure as hell wasnāt honorable when he had Abigail tied to a chair with the full intention of killing her.
I called him an outlaw, not a gunslinger. Why is Milton willing to spare everyone except Dutch if he isn't honorable? Why didn't he have Ross shoot Arthur when he had the chance? Bros just doing his job lol. He had no intention of killing Abigail. He tried questioning Molly and when she refused he let her go. Why would it be any different with Abigail? He had already warned them twice before shooting up Lakay. Once at the end of Chapter 3, and another right before.
I know what you called him. I was saying that Outlaws werenāt the ones with honor is that period, gunslingers were. Colm OāDriscoll was an outlaw and he sure as shit didnāt have any honor. On the other hand however Emmet Granger was a piece of shit but still had enough honor to where he dueled Arthur instead of just shooting him because he was gunslinger. He wasnāt honorable for offering a deal to the other members of the gang because he didnāt do it cause the kindness of his heart, he did it because they didnāt matter to him. He didnāt care about anyone but Dutch despite there being bounty posters for Hosea and Arthur because he knew Dutch was the leader. Cut the head off the snake and all. Hell, Milton didnāt know what Hosea looked like or who John even was. Thatās how unimportant they were to him. Itās the same reason why he let Molly go. The moment he felt disrespected by them refusing to take his offer however he was dead set on killing them all. It doesnāt matter if he gave them two warnings about what he was planning to do. He still knew full well that a literal child and several other members whoās worst crimes were at most pickpocketing were in those buildings and still shot it up. Thatās not honorable no matter how you try to slice it. And what do you mean he had no intention of killing Abigail? He intended on killing everyone in that room! Itās the whole reason why he felt comfortable enough to tell Arthur that Micah was a rat! Because he thought he won and didnāt plan on letting him, Abigail, or Sadie leave alive.
Outlaws from the west did have honor. Colm was an exception. Most wouldn't shoot or rob anything where women and children were involved. Yes he was doing it out of kindness, he feels bad that they've been mislead and brainwashed by Dutch. Thats why he says "Who made you the messiah to these lost souls you've lead so horribly ashtray." Arthurs bounty is $5000, and Hoseas is probably even higher. Milton has no reason to throw away $5000+ if not for honor. So Arthur suddenly mattered to him once he found out that he was already dying? Abigail is a prostitute, Molly is his main targets girlfriend. Tell me again who matters more? If he let Molly go he was definitely going to let Abigail go lol. Jack isn't even tall enough to get shot by the gatling gun lmao. Those were likely warning shots to, as he knows they are still alive once he stops firing. Honor only goes to some extent. By that logic, high honor Arthur isn't honorable either. Hes still murdering like 80% of the FBI even on his death bed.
Possibly, but then they'd have just been replaced, the hunt would still be on. After Milton's death the Pinks still gave chase, If it wasn't Ross then it would be whoever else was next in line.
I think Arthur is also smart enough not to kill Milton and Ross right there and then since the camp is crazy near so killing (presumably) two high ranking agents will make that general area and valentine a pretty hot spot way too soon
Yep, same reason he lets Jimmy Brooks go (if you choose that path). The whole town saw Arthur take off after him - it would've been a big deal if his body had been found at the bottom of a cliff later that day. I always think that shouldn't have been a choice since Arthur was big on keeping things quiet - when he wasn't drinking anyway lol
Just like they could have down when they conveniently walked into the camp that one time and then the whole gang just let them walk out. Wouldnāt it be a bit beneficial to just shoot them?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A bit salty, aren't you? I said what I saw in that scene, you are the one with the delusions. How would you know if there were more Pinkertons around there? And if there were, how would you know all the different events that could've happened? Jack's presence in that scene is important.
Well, if you played the game you would see that even off-cutscenes (when you gather enough bounty) Pinkertons ALWAYS show up in numbers, not just two guys walking up to a guy whose bounty is apparently 5K dollars, which was huge back then. And if you dont agree with my logic, then it also applies to your logic, that Arthur didnt react exactly because Jack was there, which you wouldnt know is the reason why he didnt react...
Story and gameplay are two different things, you know. Arthur has a bounty set on him because of lore reasons. It affects the map and that's it. If story and gameplay were to be the same, then Pinkertons would've been chasing Arthur non-stop at every town he goes to. Which isn't the case, as you would already know if you played the game. All these things that you are saying are presumptions and nothing more. I said what I saw in the scene and expressed Jack's importance in the story.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wtf are you talkin about dude š
True, Milton and Ross were most likely not alone. But if Arthur was killed that day, it means that John, Abigail, and Jack would not have been able to escape the gang and eventually start their ranch. So, the events of rdr1 would not even have happened.
bro why are you being hostile about this lmfao
No one said anything about what would have happened after he shot them
You might even be able to spor him. Who knows? *Giggles
Does that same theory apply when they walk into camp in Chapter 3?
Like all the other times that they fought off the pinkerton's?
He has quite a bit of screentime tbh. He's always walking around camp too
I donāt get why the gang didnāt kill them the second time they showed up. He threatened to come back with fifty men, just blow them away.
if jack wasn't with arthur then agent milton and his meat rider wouldn't of even approached him lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Heidi McCourt. She was a good looking girl, until her brains were plastered all over the wall, and her eye was hanging out by a thread of tendon.
Playing through the series with my gf and The Stranger was our favorite side character by far. Except maybe Seth and Irish. Me personally I wish we saw more Jonah and Eli.
I also have a bit of a strange obsession with the strange man
Iāll never forget my jackass pre-med roomie cutting in to say that eyes donāt have tendons. If Heidiās eye was hanging by anything, it was by the optic nerve.
Random people in the late 19th/early 20th century probably didn't have quite the anatomy knowledge as a modern med student.
My point is he was a buzz kill.
Thomas Downes of course for obvious reasons, but also Leviticus Cornwall. Cornwall only has probably a few minutes of screen time, but heās the force behind a lot of what happens to the gang.
I hate to be that guy but he's a bit closer to about half half half an hour of screen time but your point still stands
The only times I remember him onscreen are outside the saloon in Valentine, which was less than a minute, and then on the boat in Annesburg which maybe lasted a couple of minutes. I'm just saying that I have well over a thousand hours playing this game and I'm wondering if I've forgotten some other time when he was on screen for a long time?
Pretty sure that's all the screentime he has. He gets mentioned a lot but those are the only times we ever see or hear him
How do you work out half an hour? We only see him twice - once in Valentine and once at Annesburg.
You don't have to worry about being that guy because you're totally wrong. Cornwall is only on screen like two to three times. And those cutscenes with him are barely like two or three minutes each.
1/2 ( 1/2)= 1/4
Bruuuuhhhhh
Sister Calderon
This is my answer. Cornwall and Downes are correct as well, but they drive the "physical" plot/narrative portion of the story. She's the lynchpin for the emotional turning point that drives the character portion towards the promised land. "Take a gamble that love exists, and do a loving act."
Seconding this. The "take a gamble that love exists" line is one of the most hard-hitting quotes in the entire game, and for me was the thing that solidified Arthur's ultimate redemption arc. Plus she's just cool AF.
I never did those side missions in my play throughs but Iām gonna give them a shot this time around.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
She absolutely does. Man, you played the game wrong son. She's Arthur's conscience personified. Without her, Arthur's redemption wouldn't have worked.
Low honour much?
LOL try again.
One of the Strange Manās tests is centered around her
Been years since I played but doesnāt that Native American chief reallly change Arthur and his trajectory story wise
Rain Falls - really sets Arthur down the road of contemplating morality and, ironically, redemption.
Yes but he has quite a bit of screen time in chapter 6.
Gavin?
Well, u got the "little screentime" right LOL
Gav? where are you???
I'm so worried! My best chap he is!
Maybe Thomas?
Yea Thomas had a big impact on the story and Arthurās redemption
Heidi McCourt, the girl Dutch shot at Blackwater. Literally zero seconds of screentime but one of the most important characters in the story of both games.
Itās been a decade since I played the first one, how was she important in that game?
It has been a decade since I played the first game too so I don't remember either lmao. But basically what I was trying to say is: Heidi is killed by Dutch in Blackwater -> The gang is forced to run away and into hiding + the Pinkertons are on their trail -> Yadda yadda yadda the gang is fucked up and the ones that lived wish revenge on Micah -> John kills Micah -> Micah's death puts the Bureau on John's trail -> events of Red Dead Redemption. So everything is a consequence of the botched Blackwater Robbery/Heidi's death.
Do we know enough about the Blackwater job to say that for certain? Maybe the job still goes bad and the story still plays out regardless of whether he kills her?
>Do we know enough about the Blackwater job to say that for certain? No because the situation as a whole is pretty shady, but it is heavily implied that Dutch shooting her made the situation a thousand times worse than it would if they just failed to rob the ferry or something like that.
I think it was also the first time the gang saw Dutch was willing to kill in cold blood forgetting all the nonsense about being "moral" by only robbing the rich
IMO Strauss
strauss has solid screen time imo
But compared to his impact itās quite a substantial difference
Ahhhh i dont like that sack of shit at all
Colm
The lady in the woods up north that Arthur can help learn to hunt and survive. Cant remember her name
Charlotte. And I always treated those quests as a vacation for Arthur. Nice to get away from it all.
Definitely some of my favorite parts of the game. Charlotte and that guy with the missing leg and the devil horse.
Hamish Sinclair
Hot air balloon guy
I kinda liked that guy
Strange Man
Ohhhh waiting to read that. Would be like super amazing if he like apeared in GTA VI dont u think? LoL
Agent milton
He has way more screen time than any other "villain" other than Micah and dutch
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He completely abandoned everyone he loved, started going on murderous temper tantrums, tried to kill John in the second game multiple times while intentionally killing tons of civilians for no reason and in both games he takes advantage of multiple minority groups for his own personal gain and abandoned all his "morals" because *he* got his own best friend killed and blamed it on everyone around him endangering everyone, killed old all of the braithwaits because he was careless and got jack kidnapped, killed multiple sheriff's and robbed banks killing hundreds of innocent people in the process, stole from struggling parents dooming their children for death, and crippling local economies abd you wanna say he isn't at least slightly like a villain?
I donāt know how many times it needs to be said but the entire gang are villains. Theyāre rotten bastards but people get caught up with Arthurās redemption arc like it actually makes up for all of the cold blooded killing he happily did for years. Some are worse than others obviously but by and large they are not good or righteous people.
Except a couple of the gang members didn't really do any of that (Tilly, jack and Pearson)
Tilly and Jack can get a pass but Pearson willingly went along with the gang for a long time knowing damn well they were doing terrible things. He kept them nice and fed so they could continue to pillage the surrounding communities. Heās one of the least bad but still not exactly a good dude.
The general store visits make him a good guy because I said so. But aren't you forgetting someone? LENNY! LNENY! YNNEL!
LENNY MY BOAH! I like Pearson too, I just think itās kind of silly that people gloss over Arthurās and several other gang memberās misdeeds because they eventually ādid the right thing.ā
Also reverend Swanson is a good guy š
I dont mind being downvoted beyond all reason. I just think we should think about this critticaly: Thsi Video might help u verify or change your oppinion: https://youtu.be/l2z5yBqcnbw?si=JXybIusUTo-y8xnG
He was insane from the start with how Charles describes him killing ruthlessly in blackwater
You have a good point. But also (i may be way off on this one) we dont know the background. Who was this girl and what happend before he killed her? Im not saying that it was okay for him to kill her like that, but we dont know the baackstory. Or maybe its just me.
I understand but Charles also said he went on a rampage with Micah if that helps
It sure does. I agree with you. Him trusting Micah in any way makes him a bad person imo. Man, i absolutely hate that rat. What a parasite. Works me up even thinking about him.
The rest of the gang weren't much better but they did it to help everyone
Dutch was slipping into insanity long before the head injury. The tram crash and Hosea's death were merely accelerants, much like the exertions of Guarma accelerated Arthur's tuberculosis.
Sad to think about arthurs demise. I feel so much for Arthur. I legit looked up to him. Cryed my eyes out when he died looking at the sunrise. Geez, even now it stirs me up.
I forgot to mention I have seen the vid
The head injury theory is bullshit lol. Dutch was going insane long before the trolly robbery.
I see your point. But remember; he had a plan all along xD
I mean, Dutch is a gang leader who, at the very least, hurt and robbed people. Sure, he used to help people as well, but Dutch doesnāt mind Arthur just killing those people in the train. He doesnāt mind that the gang sometimes kills people for money, people that donāt deserve to die. He doesnāt mind the loan sharking, robbing, and more. Likeā¦ the gang isnāt good people, that is the point. This isnāt even mentioning that he is a straight up villain in the 1st game.
Kieran Duffy
might be colm
Mysterious Stranger
does he even count for Red Dead 2 if you only ever see him in a painting and the mirror?
This subreddit is not RDR2 specific, nor was this question.
nor was my response, i was just focusing on the Red Dead 2 side of the idea.
Cornwall
Hamish Sinclair
Cornwall literally invested into the pinkertons so they would force their hand on em more
Tuberculosis
Sean,his death affected the gang and was the beginning of the end
Molly O'Shea
The only real answer: the dude that time over time gets bitten by a snakeā¦
I suppose Kieran did as he saved Arthurās life.
Trelawny
Agent Edgar Ross. he has like 2 maybe three scenes in RDR2, but we know so much out about him because of Rdr1
Sister Calderon. Assuming you actually encounter her, this is the correct answer
Swanson
Gavin.
Herbert Moon
Cornwall only appears twice if I'm not wrong
Cornwall
I would say Cornwall, he's breifly in two scenes and probably gets about a minute of dialogue altogether. The gang were on the run prior to robbing his train, yet they'd severed any chance of going off grid once they provoked him into hiring the Pinkertons. Hosea states to Dutch that he'd doom the gang if he targeted Cornwall. With his financial backing, the Pinkertons were far more able and numerous to give chase and flush the gang out. Yes there was BW, yet Cornwall set the stage for the hunt that spanned throughout the game.
Seamus cousin
*By marriage
Cain
Bufallo
And mister fish
Gavin??!!
Sister Calderon - guiding Arthur down the road to Redemption? Has to be her.
Kieran
Definitely Leviticus Cornwall
Sister Calderon or Leviticus Cornwall, both made huge impacts to the story with very little screen time.
Tomoe in sekiro,and laurence in bloodborne.
Angelo Bronte
colm o driscoll
Cthulhu
Leviticus Cornwall. He is mentioned by name multiple times and only shows up in chapter 6. He's the one who hires the Pinkertons in the first place and there are multiple missions where we rob him. So yeah, i'd say him.
Sean, depending on when you rescue him
The Pinkertons at the end of the epilogue
Lenny
The whole ass
gavin :(
Thomas Downes Colm O'Driscoll Sister Calderon
So many Thomas downes, Jimmy brooks, reverend Swanson, Catherine braithwaite, evenleyn miller, Sean, Kieran, Strauss,Molly, colm, Brontƫ
thomas downes ig
Jimmy Brooks
Dutch in the first game. I remember when we saw him for the first time and feeling chills.
The strange man
Downes for sure
Rains Fall and sister Calderon are the only reason we know about Eliza and Isaac
Thomas Downes
Janet Leigh in Psycho.
Milton... his death is what led to RDR1
Pretty much Cornwall, most of the story happens because of him
Cornwall or Mr. Downes
Jimmy brooks
The bananafarmers of tahiti
LENNY!!
Agent Ross
Sierra was pretty chill
I gotta say Leviticus Cornwall. Dude had 2 scenes and helped undo the gangā¦
Arturo. I mean without him John wouldāve not escaped which means John wouldāve got hanged which means rdr1 wouldāve never happened
Hamish, possibly?
Cornwall
Nate Johns for RDR1.
Ynnel.
Kieran
Cornwall seen once if IRC but we rob him for half the story
colm o driscoll
The Saint Denis doctor
Sauron from lord of the rings. Heās the biggest example. Lord of the rings influenced red dead redemption writers into writing western stories for video games
Colm
Karen. Hardly featured. But her jugs will impact me for the rest of my life