Really feel for ETH. Could argue for against him getting the sack, but to have this come out before the biggest game of the season is absolutely disgraceful.
I don't see how it helps them. If we lose the FA Cup ETH is fairly obviously leaving and we're going to need a new manager. Increasingly instability before the game just makes us more likely to lose, and therefore more likely to need a new manager (and thus more likely to nab McKenna).
Same here, been gutted since all these stories started leaking.
I’m not saying he’s 100% blamless and we all know the manager bites the bullet but good god, all those injuries? Is he also to blame for player mistakes that have led to losses and draws after leading games?
He deserves to at least see out he’s final year - with players back, a few signings to bulk up the depth and what looks like a better/improving structure upstairs.
We are just back in that loop - and even the options? Who there can you say has better ‘pedigree’ than Erik?
the first season was absurdly good. His foolish stubbornness is what cost him but I would prefer we hold fire. No reason to believe any change but squad changes would fix things.
Most amount of individual injuries, and if you count Sancho as an injury we are second for minutes missed with injury.
And we were 8 points off our performance last season, seams right to me.
'"Is he also to blame for player mistakes that have led to losses and draws after leading games?"
As the manager, yeah this does fall on him a bit. He's trained the players, he's even recruited some of them, he's chosen the players on the pitch and could have subbed someone off. It's still largely down to the player, but the manager has got to own some of the performance.
The structural deficiencies of the team are completely on him. That 4-0-6 formation he persisted with until he finally decided to start playing Amrabat in midfield, the fact that we got hit with the same cutback goal that has been happening all season and how he easily dismissed the number of shots our new keeper was facing. Not to mention how he refused to give other players a chance despite some of his starters, Rashford and Antony, being awful for weeks.
Have you seen our bench at times. Literally academy kids without a minute of pro football.
If he threw on some of them say in the Brentford game when three nil down he'd be getting battered how could he do this to a kid and ruining the kids career confidence etc.
Sometimes he was in a lose lose.
Two things I can say not picking mad sooner and persistent with MC tominay casimero and Antony.
The formation not changing to make it less open.
Even still if he changed those things and we continued to lose maybe by less goals he'd still be getting sack
He literally played a bit different and less open and we performed better the last few games. He was unwilling to change with the injuries mounting. That's my main gripe about him. Same with his unwillingness to not play Antony.
Step one - sack ETH
Step two - hire Tuchel because he’s ‘elite’ or something
Step three - spend bucketloads on one or two players in their late 20s who aren’t wanted by actual top clubs because they’re on the slide
Step four - qualify for the CL and say ‘we’re on our way back!’
Step five - have a shite season and be baffled about it, see if Ole’s around to step in
This is the Glazer playbook. Let’s see if INEOS are smarter, shall we?
It’s drawing serious parallels to the LVG/Mourinho debacle so we will see. I hope INEOS get it right but the proof will be in the pudding. I’m not going to blindly accept and not question everything they do just because they’re not the Glazers
Get it right? Stick with Haag. People really are delusional to the impact of the injury the clubs had this year. It’s been horrific.
The club need stability, so stick with him. The bad apples are rotten and have out lasted many managers before them, so now it has to be the other way round. Should it be Hag? Probably not, but it has to be imo.
What the owners have been doing is what Chelsea did 15/20 years ago. However, the only reason it worked for Chelsea is the mid 2000’s is because that squad had quality and leaders. We don’t have that, at all.
There’s an infrastructure forming behind him, that will control the signings. Now it’s about building an environment that provides stability and direction. Having commitment in your gaffer, is the best trait for future candidates for the position, managers and players.
The ball needs to be in our court for a change, not players and managers we want to bring in. People have to want to come here.
Ramble / waffle over.
ETH's made the worst of a bad situation. What we can see on the pitch and what metrics show are borne out by what's being leaked regarding: his communication (too much of it and not put across in a way that players find understandable); mixed to poor man-management, except for the few young players which, to give him credit, he has brought through; general refusal to adapt ( Newcastle and Arsenal apart, to an extent) in his set-up; poor eye for a player and insistence upon retaining a strong voice in player purchases. The metrics are awful- bad chance creation numbers, more shots conceded than some of the poorest teams in PL history.
Yes, he had good moments at Ajax, but then again De Boer was winning straight Eredivises and came over to promptly lose every game he played. Last season was ETH compromising more but also riding off a more balanced squad (Fred, for all his faults covered over a few cracks with his energy when Casemiro or Eriksen were out; Casemiro and Eriksen were less done). Even that was basically 1/2 a good season, with rough patches before the World Cup and then a downturn after the League Cup final. No other club aspiring to top level tolerates consistently bad results And consistently bad performances without clear sign of a payoff: even Arteta's Arsenal pre title-push and on the fringes of European places were better in actual style and chance creation.
The fee we sold Fred for, was only good enough to loan out a player for 1 season. That player barely played because the manager refused to unless he knew the team was going to be embarrassed. Amrabat may not be the best but he has played in the last 3 games and we have looked significantly less open in midfield.
Agreed. He is simply better than Casemiro, which isn't difficult. ETH's decisions this season have all been so bad I can't believe keeping him is even on the table.
Players can't understand? For real. That's not an excuse. You think Pep would put up with that. The same players cried about no tactics or too simple tactics and drills. I also don't think he's as bad at communicating as people think. When not in a presser at informal talks he's pretty good. I think he's holding back a lot because the press have given nothing but animosity for months.
It's time to part ways for both. But could have been handled better I don't think he was ever gonna survive the palace game
I do not and will not ever give too shits about the leaks, whoever the source of the leak is the problem, not Hag. Those young players are arguably the over performers…?
I agree about the chances being created but like you even said with the Fred departure, he wasn’t replaced. We wanted De Jong, and ended with a desperate and cheap alternative (that’s the structures fault).
Hag won the FA cup? I don’t think the De Boer comparison is fair. You’re talking about these problems as if every other single managers before hand didn’t do the same thing and the next one won’t.
If you think the next manager will make these mistakes without the proper infrastructure, then just keep him. Stability is the most important thing right now.
Most shots conceded is what digs the knife in for me. I know we’ve had injuries, no one would disagree with that but there was nothing close to a consistent play style all year.
The only reason you’d keep him is for the sake of not sacking another manager and hoping it works out, especially with INEOS now. Which I understand. Even the signings situation where we would assume ETH would majority of control atm given who’s come in - this doesn’t happen at clubs like City and Liverpool and I assume it will be the same for us considering the DOFs, etc we are targeting. Which would hopefully start to give our managers the best opportunity to actually compete.
But would this save ETH or do we start clean? Either way we’re going to be in pain for a while tbh.
Why did you have to finish your point with that embarrassing lie about Arsenal?
Why can't people just refrain from talking about things they clearly don't know about?
Show your working then! Or are you also going off the sight test? I don't have the numbers in front of me (it's a comment section, not an Athletic column, so we can be a bit more fast and loose) but I don't recall Arsenal's metrics, as I saw them reported, being that bad - a few games in that horrible start of season run they had in his 2nd season notwithstanding.
> are you also going off the sight test?
Did you watch them with your eyes closed in that case?
Arsenal were nothing short of a meme before last season. Go through the comments here on reddevils if you want, hundreds of them detailing how at least our banter era is nowhere near as bad as theirs.
Arteta's regime objectively started off much, much worse than Ten Hag's... the fact that you're even inferring that is up for debate only further proves you didn't watch them.
They've most likely cost us an FA cup.
Which top level manager is going to come to a club that consistently treats their manager this way for a long term project?
You're right. Just because they been doing relatively better than the loathed Glazers doesn't mean that they can do no wrong. I wished we could've given Erik one more season under the new structure but apparently the decision has already been made. Other thing that worries me is the impact that his sacking will have in FFP. We will have to pay him and his aides and that can impact the transfer budget.
Tuchel does not like meddling in transfers. He liked his job at Chelsea where the management decided the transfer strategy. Probably a minority opinion, but he would awesome for this United squad.
You're right. Plus INEOS made some questionable decisions at the beginning of their OGC Nice ownership. They've rectified it to some degree. Let's say if they've really learned their lessons.
At the end of the video I thought it was notable that Winter still said it was “probably the right decision”, although obviously the timing of it is terrible and in his own words “grim”.
Realistically if a decision was already taken internally to replace Ten Hag, I’m not sure if it was genuinely possible to keep it quiet from the media until a day or two after the final. In that case maybe it would have been better if it was publicly mentioned earlier? But that would also serve as a distraction in the lead-up to the final and I think we’d simply get more stories over the whole week from the media about how it would be bad timing to do so.
It’s a tough situation regardless for everyone at the club and I do feel for Ten Hag that this came out before the final though.
Both Barca and Bayern made it clear that they were moving on months ago. Despite the clown shows it devolved into after the announcements that they were parting with their managers. We could’ve done the same thing, especially because the hierarchy has legitimate reasons. They could’ve said that we are parting with ten hag at the end of the season because we have a new sporting project, or whatever other excuses they wanted. Maybe Ten hag refused but that should’ve been the way it went. It coming out a day before the cup final just makes it even worse if we lose.
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but Barca only recently signaled they were dissatisfied with Xavi. I mean they were begging him to change his mind and stay not even 1 month ago: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/40022583/why-xavi-decided-reverse-course-stay-barcelona
The winds only changed for Xavi about a week ago.
regardless whether you think this is the right call or not this is just the worst possible way to handle this situation 😭 we had no chance against City anyway but now i don’t even know how fucked that locker room is leading up to tomorrow
Genuine question, what could the club do in this situation if it got leaked outside of their control? Surely they had to move quickly if managers are being contacted by rival clubs.
Yeah the only way we move this quick is because we’re going for someone that the club thinks can’t wait whilst Chelsea, Bayern etc are actively looking
Not make the decision when they said they were going to wait? Obviously they’re saying one thing publicly and another one privately if this is true. Is it too much to ask that the people who run the club be a little transparent and genuine? Should United really be the kind of club who loses their shit and starts panicking because Todd Bo and his team of clowns want to hire someone?
If the club are transparent = same situation where his sacking is announced before the final (although maybe not the day before) but then you end up in a situation like Liverpool where the klopp announcement had an impact on performance
If the club are looking to replace him and have tried to hide it (which is what it looks like) we get this situation
If the club don’t look to replace him until after the final we potentially lose out on targets to other clubs
Either way it’s a messy situation with no perfect resolution, given how many other clubs are needing new managers
So what if we miss out on targets? Is whether or not we hire Kieran McKenna going to make or break this club? This situation is ridiculous and damages the club, its reputation, the trust between the club and the fans. This is publicly humiliating a coach, it’s a disgrace.
If INEOS knew he was never lasting, they should have announced it. It's not like we were competing for shit in the first place. What harm would it have done to just be out in front of it and actually be the ones in control?
They're in control of fuck all currently.
Also, making said announcement would have put us in pole position for a new signing. Rather than managers saying "Let me wait and see what happens at United," they would be coming to United first and we wouldn't have to compete as much.
It really doesn't matter how it leaked, or if it's just one big rumor, but INEOS haven't denied the claim publicly, and they said one thing to the public about giving a manager time, such as Arteta, to sacking a manager. So they have done nothing right either.
Klopp is a good manager, but he's delusional. He thinks he's SAF reincarnated and it was quite egregiously obvious that he thought he would bow out in similar fashion after his announcement.
The truth is that none of the 4 man short-list are terribly exciting bar McKenna, who is a Championship manager. Ten Hag should not have been walked to the gallows before the end of the season for any of these men.
This is far too reasonable and logical for this subreddit. But I agree, pretty grim behaviour from the club hierarchy if this is true and the decision has already been made.
Meet the new owners: same as the old owners.
I actually think that this could work somehow. Despite all the shit we've been through this season, it's been obvious that this squad didn't have any problem with the manager. Therefore, they may end putting up a good fight if they think it's going to be his last match here.
If they are not going to sack him, the club has to come out with a statement ASAP.
Writing's on the wall, though. It really does feel like he's being replaced. What an awful conclusion to this season.
They already told the [BBC that nothing's changed](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c033gxr2w7lo) - Erik's future will be decided post-season.
What for? There is zero reason to engage on media gossip. What statement can they say? The only statement would give to pick up his +1 option, and since he is getting sacked why would they?
I'd have liked him to have said specifically that it's shit of Steinberg for this.
Is this in the public interest? No. Thats someone's job and Steinberg is acting like a red top hack.
Just wait for him to talk about having a 'duty' as if he's reporting in a war.
That is not how it works lol. They’re journalists no matter how serious you think they are.
If anything the meaningless of football makes it more understandable to break news.
People in this sub bashing EtH continuously and putting all the blame for a shit season on him are getting on my nerves. This shit season isn’t just about or because of the manager.
ABUS in the journo class. Funny how they fall all over themselves over Citeh and barely mention the 115 but on the eve of a the Cup final, they stir up drama.
I think it’s ETH’s last match win or lose but fucking hell do miss David Gill. We had such better message discipline back then.
The problem is that the context is sort forever expanding.
When he had a fit and firing squad (mostly), he finished 2nd and won a trophy. With an injury hit season and players way off form, we finished 8th.
Can argue for and against the nuance behind everything, but mostly it’s just a shame that another manager comes in and leaves after 18 months or so.
We've been in bad form since March 2023 post that Rashford purple patch. Enough of this revisionism. Ten Hag's made the worst out of a crappy situation.
Yes, we've sacked and hired wrong managers in the past. No, that doesn't justify keeping him.
Unfortunately, he compounded the issues with our injuries by forcing the team to play an expansive system that was reliant on a level of organisation, discipline and athleticism that our available players just don't demonstrate.
I've been saying for a while now that, if he is sacked, there are so many things he could have done to avoid it that he refused to do.
I will be agreeing with you if this is the same person who hired and fired him.
But to be fair to Ineos, they have every right to bring in a new manager who they think is the right person to bring the club forward.
If Ineos is hiring and firing the new manager in 2 seasons, then yes Ineos deserved some criticism
Journalist force information out and then parade around calling it a disgrace that they were able to do that? Especially when it was from a different party? You guys wanted dirt and you found dirt.
This is a classic damn if you do / damn if you don't situation.
What if the next manager fails? INEOS will be criticised saying that ETH could have done better with more time.
What if things don't get better under ETH? INEOS will be criticised saying that ETH should have been sacked after his awful season.
Both sides are correct. There is no simple answer, and I guess the new board just decided to do everything their way.
r/reddevils: 'I trust INEOS to make the right decisions, they may make tough calls but they have more knowledge of what's happening inside the club and they won't be swayed by reactionary fans'
INEOS: give Ten Hag the entire season, internally audit the club, at the end of it decide to sack him
r/reddevils: *shocked Pikachu face*
Letting him see his contract out is such a no-brainer **safe** decision for them. Just start working on the backroom staff and squad with their game model vision for recruitment this summer. If he's still shit next season with new players and fewer injuries then he's already out of contract and they can just say we gave him a chance, thank you bye-bye you were an old hire and we want to bring in our own man in now, after having already spent a year at the club to get their own systems in place.
If he somehow turns it around then you haven't goofed up and you have more stability and continuity on the project. Instead if you sack him and bring **your guy** everything that goes wrong from here on out is **your fault** and if the next guy is shit and they have to sack him after a year or two then they're just Glazers 2.0 to the Fandom and they've lost all the good will their PR team worked so hard for. Just look at Chelsea. We'll basically turn into that except with way lower investment. It's such a gamble from INEOS when they can easily have a whole year free trial and a easy exit if things go wrong.
If they genuinely thinks that ETH is not fit for the job and they have one or several managers they think would do a better job, why would they keep him?
Number one priority for an owner should be how can they improve the performance of the club not the optics
Some fans of the club still support the manager.
Does that really shock you that much? That people have a different opinion on the football team they support.
To be clear, the matchgoing fans also express support for him numerous times towards the end of this season. It’s more fascinating to me that we have online fans that are totally disconnected from the match going fans.
Because our alternatives are a mid table PL manager, a manager who is at best a side grade and has been sacked by Chelsea, a manager who has only managed in the championship or Tuchel who is a bit of a wildcard.
choice is clear for me then. Thomas Tuchel. Dont even know how we can consider others. I mean just listening to what you say makes it so clear. Yeah Tuchel is not a guarantee for success, but damn, who ever is? The guy is certainly a top 5 manager in terms of tactical knowledge and a cup competition monster. Would take him every single day over the others
Sacked Moyes after finishing 9th and previously winning their first ever European trophy for playing shit football, terrible defensive metrics, and poor underlying numbers. Can’t say their standards haven’t rose
I understand the fatigue of manager roulette but ineos have every right to bring in whoever they think can do the job. Ten hag did no favors to convince them with that horrendous season. Tired of the injuries excuse too. Chelsea and newcastle finished higher with much worse squad deficiencies. Injuries doesn't explain why we cant score against brentford and burnley
When the new manager wins the league next season with half the starters injured and Johnny Evans and Kambwala at cb then people will understand. Then you probably think those two will be good enough to win the CL the year after?
I feel like many, including myself, think it's a shame he didn't get a shot while having the proper structure around him, which INEOS are now starting to put into place - but all the same I agree that the situation is too bad for him to continue and his position is basically untenable.
Even with the injuries, he hasn't shown that he has enough innovation or ingenuity to adapt. He's making the same mistakes with team selection and strategy that he was in late 2023.
Does he?
I think all of this stuff swirling around about his future is distasteful but has he really earned another season? We've been horrendously shit this season, and there's been no sign of improvement.
There are mitigating factors. I want you to tell me with a straight face that this squad is capable of anything more than top 4. Then, I want you to factor in 60-70 whatever injuries and tell me what this already top 4 squad looks like and where it should be finishing under such circumstances.
You look at this season, and I'll look at the season before. Players were fit, Old Trafford was an absolute fortress and had the best home record in a long time. We finished 3rd. Won a cup. Went into another cup final.
On the balance of both seasons, and understanding the context, yes I do think he deserves a third season. And it helps INEOS and the new board to settle down and see if things improve. If they don't, sack him with little to no compensation.
There were mitigating factors, but Ten Hag made things so much worse for himself in stubbornly sticking to his tactical system even though it was clear that it wasn't working. And we saw precious little sign that he was successfully coaching the players to operate better in it.
How many times did we need to see the opposition running free in a wide open midfield before he changed the setup? It was never going to work, and everyone could see that. Our players never looked like they knew how to press in an organised fashion, and it was Ten Hag's job to either teach them to or to not ask them to do what they couldn't do.
Aston Villa have overperformed and haven't had nearly as many injury concerns in key areas. Their main players have all been on form and available for the entire season. Meanwhile we haven't had a left back for the entire season and up until the last game we didn't have a single CB.
Newcastle and Chelsea have fallen off massively and only finished a couple points above us. 60 or 63 points does it really matter?
Deeper squads. Ours is paper thin. Aging squad and I genuinely think our players are too low IQ and lack fitness for EtH and they'd be too low IQ for any other manager. He will go to another team and kill it; win leagues and trophies. We'll trundle along with INEOS praying.
I'm not saying this based on the fact we finished 8th, which is shit anyway. I'm saying it based on the fact that basically every side in the league has outplayed us at least once this season. That is nowhere near fucking good enough, regardless of the mitigating factors.
Yes, but that is where injuries have played their part. We still don't have a left back. We have barely had a fit CB, let alone a reliable back four. Our best players from last season are out of form.
Look, could Ten Hag have been more pragmatic and ditched his philosophy to survive? Maybe so, but at the same time these are growing pains of a team that is nowhere near the finished article. Rather keep the progress growing by making the players who are available to adapt, rather than wasting a season just surviving.
This is all well and good but everything I've seen this season leads me to think that sticking with Ten Hag would be the real waste of time because he has shown absolutely nothing at all to give me belief that the team will progress under him.
We have been, again, completely shit this season. There are next to no positive things I have to say about our performances on the pitch. No improvement has been made throughout the course of the season; we were shite in the first match against Wolves and we've been just as shite ever since.
Injuries have played a massive part, yes, but can anybody tell me with a straight face that our tactics simply could not be better than they currently are? The players always look lost, there are always huge gaps in midfield, we're constantly conceding north of 20 shots per game, we don't create enough. So what is it that is supposed to be giving me hope here? You're asking me to put my faith in Ten Hag - what has he done to earn it?
By having a great 1st season. He can obviously do something with this club, as he proved it then. Yes this season was shit, but in sir Alex's first few seasons he had an 11th and a 13th place finish. Sometimes sticking is better, even if it doesn't look like it at the time
Home record good last season.
Away record has been shit for two years. How do we still not have an away win against a top 8-9 team in the league? It’s insanity how bad we are at away games, 0 signs of improvement by ETH either.
If we’re sacking managers after 2 years - one bad season, 1 trophy and 2 cup finals, then I don’t know how we’re going to get back to the top. Fans are looking for divine intervention that is gonna get us back to the top without bumps in the road along the way
The decision ultimately has nothing to do with fans.
The club have conducted an audit and seemingly come to the conclusion that ten hag isn't the man to lead us forward for reasons they're likely more privy to.
This isn't just a "bad" season, though. We've been fucking catastrophic, and the FA Cup doesn't change that.
I'm all for giving managers time when they do something to earn it but nobody can actually give me anything that Ten Hag has done to merit that time.
As I say, everything this season points to a major regression, and it's not as though we've been getting any better in the latter half. If there are signs of encouragement on the pitch then I'm all for being patient but I've seen absolutely none.
Do you know the league position when sir Alex won his 1st cup? 13th. We finished 13th and won the cup. Look what happened after that. You have to allow a few shit seasons unfortunately for the manager to settle in fully. We can't keep going as we are otherwise it will be the same in 2 years time, but we will be wishing we didn't sack eth
100% agreed, sadly, these times are mostly gone. Life is too fast nowadays, noone has patience anymore, and it does reflect in football as well. Everything is so reactionary, three bad games and everythign else is forgotten. A big big shame. Sacking ETH is in my opinion worse than ALL the other sackings before at this club. He may not be the guy but my god we so desperately needed to fix other things at the club first.
i’m going to be glib for a second, but we’re facing down the prospect of firing a manager who got top four, a cup (possibly 2), and 3 cup finals in two seasons for a guy who has never managed a top flight match. this could turn out to be a masterstroke, but it could also look *really* bad in a few years time.
do you think we'll even bother with a clear-out of the squad players who have failed multiple managers already, or more of the same then under a new name hoping he gets the best out of them this time?
United doesn't want to face the fact a lot of our players, the young lads aside, just aren't just good enough.
> United doesn't want to face the fact a lot of our players, the young lads aside, just aren't just good enough.
I don't get this take? They've literally put out that virtually every one of our players is for sale.
We haven't been giving out contract renewals or triggering contract extension options we have (Varane, for example) like we used to.
It isn't possible to shift 10+ players in a single window but aside from a few youngsters and Bruno, it seems we have everyone else up for a potential sale.
>it isn’t possible to shift 10+ players in a single window
This.
However, the slight blessing in disguise by missing Europe this season would be that we don’t have to worry about meeting the UEFA homegrown quota lol and we would be a bit more free to clear out some dead weight.
Eh, the PL has a similar homegrown quota so its not like how we approach it is much different.
What might be the blessing is we can spend more than if we were in the UECL because we don't have to meet the UECL's FFP rules.
Isn’t the PL rule just that at least 8/25 must be trained at an English club, whereas the UEFA one is that 4 of those also needs to be “true homegrown” raised within our organization?
I believe we had 5 players meeting the UEFA criteria going into this season (Evans, Rashford, McTominay, Shaw and Heaton), and another 4 that met the PL requirement (AWB, Sancho, Maguire and Mount). And that doesn’t include Brandon Williams and Hannibal, who are out on loan.
I’m also not sure if Amad would qualify, given that he was loaned out to Scotland for a bit.
So while it won’t allow us to go crazy, it would give us more freedom in the sense that we could increase non-United but FA trained players and decrease United trained players.
Technically, the PL one is a max of 18 non-home grown players which is basically the same thing.
We have a bunch of recent grads that we could register in the Home Grown Club spots (like Garnacho, Mainoo, Kambawala) if we needed to. They've all been here over 3 years, though they're not 21 so you don't *need* to register them if you don't have to.
I mean, he didn't cause players to throw away Brentford, Chelsea then Liverpool within a week.
What was that, 8 points lost in 3 games?
that's literally the difference between having a go at top 4 or not, since Villa finished 8 points above.
The players didn’t throw those games. We got absolutely battered in those games and were fortunate to get anything in them. Brentford dominated us and should have scored 3/4 goals.
> he didn't cause players to throw away Brentford, Chelsea then Liverpool within a week
By that same logic he didn't cause players to take the lead against Brentford in stoppage time, come back from 2-0 down to lead 3-2 at Chelsea, and score 2 wonder goals against Liverpool to come back from 1-0 down either.
Throwing games away has been the theme for the whole season. We were battered against Liverpool and Brentford all game. Chelsea we conceded two simple goals early on. Funny how when the players actually fought back in those game the coach get the credit but when there are defensive howlers its on the players not on how the coach set his team up to just inviting pressure.
I was ready to give him a chance for most of the season but if I was Ratcliffe I'd have climbed down from the stands during the last 10 minutes of the Coventry debacle and called him an Uber.
Entirely disagree. You cannot have the worst league performance since 1990 and "deserve" another season.
He doesn't deserve this kind of media circus, though it doesn't seem like it is the club doing this at all, just like how LVG didn't deserve the treatment he got on his last days.
Lol he absolutely doesn’t “deserve” another season, if we had kept him on it would have been us taking a massive gamble on a manager who’s shown nothing in the last 15 months that he’s got the ability to right the ship
Utter failure by the club. Ineos seem no better than the glazers.
All to hire an inexperienced manager who was run out of the club previously. These players will turn on him again.
Just a disgrace all around.
The British footballing media are absolutely fucking scumbags, constantly trying to push their narrative into becoming reality. They’ve been so painfully anti ETH from day one. We need to give this man another season under an ownership with proper structure and people who know their shit rather than what we’ve had for the last decade or so.
I don’t even care if you’re ETH in or ETH out - we are embarrassing as a club.
We used to be one of the best run clubs in the world. Now, a day before (probably) our biggest game in 2 years, leaks are coming out and causing more drama.
From what I see, the players are still backing the manager. The last few managers lost the dressing room, but there hasn’t been much coming out from the players side where they’re trying to push the manager out. We had SOME sort of unity in the dressing room before a final, and now we’re in shambles again. We couldn’t wait till Monday?
Ten Hag has been disappointing this season, but my fear is that we’re going to get a new manager, keep the problematic players, and the cycle will continue. What are we going to do in 2 years when we start getting bad results again? Are we going to be in limbo for 10 more years?
This is a project - whether or not ETH is the right man for that, that’s debatable. But I just want to give ONE manager more than 2 years to finish a project. I’d be happy to sack him if there were fantastic managers available, but McKenna has zero prem experience. I’ll support anyone we bring in, but I’m hoping we make the correct decision.
All things aside - Where's the Duty of care (mental health) for Erik? , I'd sue Man Utd for that coming out and having to be subjected to that because he's right "Your getting sacked in the morning will be sung all game". Ineos are Ametuers. Wheres is the class?
Agree with Winter that it’s probably the right decision but the timing is horrid.
Ultimately, I think it’s because we’re also talking to McKenna and Chelsea leak the news.
But come on, we cannot continue with a stubborn manager who cannot change his tactics like this. A manager who cannot control game, who allows us to be so open throughout this season. Who allow 7-0, 6-3 to happen even in the “good” season. Yes the players are also to a very large extent to blame but comeon great manager, a truly UNITED will know a way through that doesn’t involve the humiliations we went through with ETH.
I do hope he gets the FA Cup win to send off though, both on a human and club level.
Erik was just too stubborn of a coach. Should’ve benched Rashford way earlier and shoul’ve ditched his ridiculous single pivot dm system after the wolves fiasco
I wonder if Chelsea know poch is going to utd and heard through the grapevine about eth and maybe tipped off the journo in spite if it's true the journo is a Chelsea fan
Obviously the leak which never happened before 24 hours ago, happened because it was from inside the club and from individuals who were extremely against the decision to sack the current manager and decided to leak it to media. This implies that it is highly possible that sacking him would be a very unpopular decision internally.
Don’t forget that there was also a leaked team line up for the FA cup final floating around. Clearly the club is in chaos because of this decision made by the owners (INEOS or glazers or both).
General consensus seems to be that it's coming from the Chelsea journos, who are being briefed by agents / Chelsea that the candidates that Chelsea are speaking to, are also speaking to us.
Shameful that it's come out this way for sure, however some solace in the fact it's seemingly not coming from our side
People seriously need to get over the idea that the club leaked this story. They so obviously didn't and wouldn't.
It's tabloid speculation based on fairly obvious assumptions. It may well turn out to be true but that does not mean for a moment that the club has been feeding them this info.
I reckon an agency has leaked it, we have obviously been speaking to agents of managers which we have had no choice as the Brighton and Chelsea moves have forced our hand - once we did this third parties become involved and it goes out of our hands.
Our players absolutely blow, and have for over a decade. Dude doesn’t deserve any of this shit- neither did the previous coaches, except for Moyes perhaps.
Fucking leeches all these journos are.
Same with these knobhead social media clowns like Goldbridge.
If I were sir Jim I’d be sending cease and desist letters to them all and making it the summer goal to weed out this entire squad.
Play the U 18 squad who won their league with the few good players left in this squad and do a proper from the ground up rebuild.
The toxicity has run deep into the ground. Fucking level it all and start over
It’s shit on EtH. How fucking difficult is it to just wait another week. It undermines the manager ahead of the final. New ownership, same old bollocks.
Regardless of whether you think Ten Hag has been a good or bad manager, to be put through the wringer like this so publicly is not something any manager deserves. United needs to keep a better lid on this shit and UK sports media needs to develop some fucking class and respect. Shit stirring parasites.
Being let go after underperforming at your job isn't a public humiliation. He will get his millions, lead out the team in a cup final, and may yet win a trophy before he goes. He's a relatively young coach, he's handled himself well on a personal level, I'm sure he will have no problem finding a new job at a big club in a few years (or a slightly less big club to rebuild his reputation).
Also don't understand how fans can be spending all season saying we should "clear out the deadwood" and bin this player or sell that player but as soon as the manager's future is up for debate everyone is clutching their pearls?!
This is Manchester United. You finished 8th and arguably that was an overachievement considering how badly the team played. I'm sure he's known for a while that he's done.
To those who want Ten Hag to stay: I'm honestly sorry that you feel that way..but ask yourself if you are wanting him to stay because you believe he will come good, or just because you are tired of the managerial merry-go-round or don't want to be proven wrong after advocating for his hiring 2 years ago. If its the latter two things, then those are not good reasons to hang onto someone who is doing a bad job.
Really feel for ETH. Could argue for against him getting the sack, but to have this come out before the biggest game of the season is absolutely disgraceful.
Fully eth out but yeah, whoever leaked this its trash. Leak it way before or after, not 24 hours before the final.
It’s by a Chelsea journo
It definitely feels like Chelsea. The team met with McKenna and so Chelsea leaked this to cause drama
More than likely, seems like the kind of underhanded, low, dirty tactics that Chelsea are notorious for. Scummy club.
I don't see how it helps them. If we lose the FA Cup ETH is fairly obviously leaving and we're going to need a new manager. Increasingly instability before the game just makes us more likely to lose, and therefore more likely to need a new manager (and thus more likely to nab McKenna).
if we win chelsea lose europa league..
Europa and also another factor, chelsea is also rebuilding like us, if we win tonightvwhile they dont win anything season they will be compared to us
Name him pls
twitter.com/JacobSteinberg
It’s unlikely this was leaked by anyone who cares or has an obligation to do right by the club tbh.
Yeah, I imagine McKenna made it clear that he’d like to wait out Chelsea’s offer. Since he’d pick us over them, they just leaked it out of spite
If he says I fucking hope they nuke the Guardian, like Fergie did to the BBC.
Honestly either way, hope they ban the Guardian. Absolute shit timing almost certainly done on purpose.
What a fucking circus, changing manager is a mad thing to do this time. But looking at Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, and others, it’s like oh wells
Same here, been gutted since all these stories started leaking. I’m not saying he’s 100% blamless and we all know the manager bites the bullet but good god, all those injuries? Is he also to blame for player mistakes that have led to losses and draws after leading games? He deserves to at least see out he’s final year - with players back, a few signings to bulk up the depth and what looks like a better/improving structure upstairs. We are just back in that loop - and even the options? Who there can you say has better ‘pedigree’ than Erik?
Remember arsneal collapsing last season from losing saliba. Imagine just from 1 player… now think if they had our injuries this season.
All these asking for ETH out will have their wish now, and we get the Ipswich manager. Well done everyone
the first season was absurdly good. His foolish stubbornness is what cost him but I would prefer we hold fire. No reason to believe any change but squad changes would fix things.
Most amount of individual injuries, and if you count Sancho as an injury we are second for minutes missed with injury. And we were 8 points off our performance last season, seams right to me.
Mate, statistically we are supposed to be at 15th position. If anything, we are at 8th because of individual brilliance.
Statistically? Statistically we’re 8th by the only real stats that matter. ExG is such a bullshit stat
'"Is he also to blame for player mistakes that have led to losses and draws after leading games?" As the manager, yeah this does fall on him a bit. He's trained the players, he's even recruited some of them, he's chosen the players on the pitch and could have subbed someone off. It's still largely down to the player, but the manager has got to own some of the performance.
The structural deficiencies of the team are completely on him. That 4-0-6 formation he persisted with until he finally decided to start playing Amrabat in midfield, the fact that we got hit with the same cutback goal that has been happening all season and how he easily dismissed the number of shots our new keeper was facing. Not to mention how he refused to give other players a chance despite some of his starters, Rashford and Antony, being awful for weeks.
Have you seen our bench at times. Literally academy kids without a minute of pro football. If he threw on some of them say in the Brentford game when three nil down he'd be getting battered how could he do this to a kid and ruining the kids career confidence etc. Sometimes he was in a lose lose. Two things I can say not picking mad sooner and persistent with MC tominay casimero and Antony. The formation not changing to make it less open. Even still if he changed those things and we continued to lose maybe by less goals he'd still be getting sack
He literally played a bit different and less open and we performed better the last few games. He was unwilling to change with the injuries mounting. That's my main gripe about him. Same with his unwillingness to not play Antony.
I hope Ajax gets him back and they win the league with him next season.
They already have a new manager
I hope he goes to Bayern or Barca and wins a fucking treble. Maybe then people will look at the players
Bayern are getting Kompany and Barca have got Hansi Flick. Only half decent jobs available atm are Chelsea and AC Milan
Ac Milan have Fonseca
Step one - sack ETH Step two - hire Tuchel because he’s ‘elite’ or something Step three - spend bucketloads on one or two players in their late 20s who aren’t wanted by actual top clubs because they’re on the slide Step four - qualify for the CL and say ‘we’re on our way back!’ Step five - have a shite season and be baffled about it, see if Ole’s around to step in This is the Glazer playbook. Let’s see if INEOS are smarter, shall we?
It’s drawing serious parallels to the LVG/Mourinho debacle so we will see. I hope INEOS get it right but the proof will be in the pudding. I’m not going to blindly accept and not question everything they do just because they’re not the Glazers
Get it right? Stick with Haag. People really are delusional to the impact of the injury the clubs had this year. It’s been horrific. The club need stability, so stick with him. The bad apples are rotten and have out lasted many managers before them, so now it has to be the other way round. Should it be Hag? Probably not, but it has to be imo. What the owners have been doing is what Chelsea did 15/20 years ago. However, the only reason it worked for Chelsea is the mid 2000’s is because that squad had quality and leaders. We don’t have that, at all. There’s an infrastructure forming behind him, that will control the signings. Now it’s about building an environment that provides stability and direction. Having commitment in your gaffer, is the best trait for future candidates for the position, managers and players. The ball needs to be in our court for a change, not players and managers we want to bring in. People have to want to come here. Ramble / waffle over.
ETH's made the worst of a bad situation. What we can see on the pitch and what metrics show are borne out by what's being leaked regarding: his communication (too much of it and not put across in a way that players find understandable); mixed to poor man-management, except for the few young players which, to give him credit, he has brought through; general refusal to adapt ( Newcastle and Arsenal apart, to an extent) in his set-up; poor eye for a player and insistence upon retaining a strong voice in player purchases. The metrics are awful- bad chance creation numbers, more shots conceded than some of the poorest teams in PL history. Yes, he had good moments at Ajax, but then again De Boer was winning straight Eredivises and came over to promptly lose every game he played. Last season was ETH compromising more but also riding off a more balanced squad (Fred, for all his faults covered over a few cracks with his energy when Casemiro or Eriksen were out; Casemiro and Eriksen were less done). Even that was basically 1/2 a good season, with rough patches before the World Cup and then a downturn after the League Cup final. No other club aspiring to top level tolerates consistently bad results And consistently bad performances without clear sign of a payoff: even Arteta's Arsenal pre title-push and on the fringes of European places were better in actual style and chance creation.
Actually hilarious how much we ended up missing Fred
The fee we sold Fred for, was only good enough to loan out a player for 1 season. That player barely played because the manager refused to unless he knew the team was going to be embarrassed. Amrabat may not be the best but he has played in the last 3 games and we have looked significantly less open in midfield.
Agreed. He is simply better than Casemiro, which isn't difficult. ETH's decisions this season have all been so bad I can't believe keeping him is even on the table.
Fred’s the new day cult hero really
It’s a disgrace he left before mctominay.
Genuinely couldn't name you a single united fan who wanted Fred gone. Would have been a terrific squad player to keep.
Players can't understand? For real. That's not an excuse. You think Pep would put up with that. The same players cried about no tactics or too simple tactics and drills. I also don't think he's as bad at communicating as people think. When not in a presser at informal talks he's pretty good. I think he's holding back a lot because the press have given nothing but animosity for months. It's time to part ways for both. But could have been handled better I don't think he was ever gonna survive the palace game
I do not and will not ever give too shits about the leaks, whoever the source of the leak is the problem, not Hag. Those young players are arguably the over performers…? I agree about the chances being created but like you even said with the Fred departure, he wasn’t replaced. We wanted De Jong, and ended with a desperate and cheap alternative (that’s the structures fault). Hag won the FA cup? I don’t think the De Boer comparison is fair. You’re talking about these problems as if every other single managers before hand didn’t do the same thing and the next one won’t. If you think the next manager will make these mistakes without the proper infrastructure, then just keep him. Stability is the most important thing right now.
Most shots conceded is what digs the knife in for me. I know we’ve had injuries, no one would disagree with that but there was nothing close to a consistent play style all year. The only reason you’d keep him is for the sake of not sacking another manager and hoping it works out, especially with INEOS now. Which I understand. Even the signings situation where we would assume ETH would majority of control atm given who’s come in - this doesn’t happen at clubs like City and Liverpool and I assume it will be the same for us considering the DOFs, etc we are targeting. Which would hopefully start to give our managers the best opportunity to actually compete. But would this save ETH or do we start clean? Either way we’re going to be in pain for a while tbh.
Why did you have to finish your point with that embarrassing lie about Arsenal? Why can't people just refrain from talking about things they clearly don't know about?
Show your working then! Or are you also going off the sight test? I don't have the numbers in front of me (it's a comment section, not an Athletic column, so we can be a bit more fast and loose) but I don't recall Arsenal's metrics, as I saw them reported, being that bad - a few games in that horrible start of season run they had in his 2nd season notwithstanding.
> are you also going off the sight test? Did you watch them with your eyes closed in that case? Arsenal were nothing short of a meme before last season. Go through the comments here on reddevils if you want, hundreds of them detailing how at least our banter era is nowhere near as bad as theirs. Arteta's regime objectively started off much, much worse than Ten Hag's... the fact that you're even inferring that is up for debate only further proves you didn't watch them.
They've already got it wrong. Absolute clowns.
I meant long term, cos yeah they fucked up on this one
They've most likely cost us an FA cup. Which top level manager is going to come to a club that consistently treats their manager this way for a long term project?
You're right. Just because they been doing relatively better than the loathed Glazers doesn't mean that they can do no wrong. I wished we could've given Erik one more season under the new structure but apparently the decision has already been made. Other thing that worries me is the impact that his sacking will have in FFP. We will have to pay him and his aides and that can impact the transfer budget.
Tuchel does not like meddling in transfers. He liked his job at Chelsea where the management decided the transfer strategy. Probably a minority opinion, but he would awesome for this United squad.
You're right. Plus INEOS made some questionable decisions at the beginning of their OGC Nice ownership. They've rectified it to some degree. Let's say if they've really learned their lessons.
I have a feeling the team aren't that interested in Tuchel. It'll be McKenna or Poch, it seems
Half of this squad leaked MC Kenna didn't know what he was doing. So what they gonna listen to him now
History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes
Jim's money to squander but this move is his legacy. We'll see, he'll be remembered for mufc more than anything else
Sad thing is it will happen exactly like that, or worse we’ll get Max Allegri.
That is exactly what we did to olé
Henry Winter is a fan of the club and he’s sparing no one with this statement. Go on Winter!
At the end of the video I thought it was notable that Winter still said it was “probably the right decision”, although obviously the timing of it is terrible and in his own words “grim”. Realistically if a decision was already taken internally to replace Ten Hag, I’m not sure if it was genuinely possible to keep it quiet from the media until a day or two after the final. In that case maybe it would have been better if it was publicly mentioned earlier? But that would also serve as a distraction in the lead-up to the final and I think we’d simply get more stories over the whole week from the media about how it would be bad timing to do so. It’s a tough situation regardless for everyone at the club and I do feel for Ten Hag that this came out before the final though.
Also doesn’t give city the bragging rights to say that they got our manager sacked if they were somehow lucky to beat us tomorrow.
who cares what these prats brag about
Both Barca and Bayern made it clear that they were moving on months ago. Despite the clown shows it devolved into after the announcements that they were parting with their managers. We could’ve done the same thing, especially because the hierarchy has legitimate reasons. They could’ve said that we are parting with ten hag at the end of the season because we have a new sporting project, or whatever other excuses they wanted. Maybe Ten hag refused but that should’ve been the way it went. It coming out a day before the cup final just makes it even worse if we lose.
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but Barca only recently signaled they were dissatisfied with Xavi. I mean they were begging him to change his mind and stay not even 1 month ago: https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/40022583/why-xavi-decided-reverse-course-stay-barcelona The winds only changed for Xavi about a week ago.
regardless whether you think this is the right call or not this is just the worst possible way to handle this situation 😭 we had no chance against City anyway but now i don’t even know how fucked that locker room is leading up to tomorrow
Genuine question, what could the club do in this situation if it got leaked outside of their control? Surely they had to move quickly if managers are being contacted by rival clubs.
Yeah the only way we move this quick is because we’re going for someone that the club thinks can’t wait whilst Chelsea, Bayern etc are actively looking
Not make the decision when they said they were going to wait? Obviously they’re saying one thing publicly and another one privately if this is true. Is it too much to ask that the people who run the club be a little transparent and genuine? Should United really be the kind of club who loses their shit and starts panicking because Todd Bo and his team of clowns want to hire someone?
If the club are transparent = same situation where his sacking is announced before the final (although maybe not the day before) but then you end up in a situation like Liverpool where the klopp announcement had an impact on performance If the club are looking to replace him and have tried to hide it (which is what it looks like) we get this situation If the club don’t look to replace him until after the final we potentially lose out on targets to other clubs Either way it’s a messy situation with no perfect resolution, given how many other clubs are needing new managers
So what if we miss out on targets? Is whether or not we hire Kieran McKenna going to make or break this club? This situation is ridiculous and damages the club, its reputation, the trust between the club and the fans. This is publicly humiliating a coach, it’s a disgrace.
If INEOS knew he was never lasting, they should have announced it. It's not like we were competing for shit in the first place. What harm would it have done to just be out in front of it and actually be the ones in control? They're in control of fuck all currently. Also, making said announcement would have put us in pole position for a new signing. Rather than managers saying "Let me wait and see what happens at United," they would be coming to United first and we wouldn't have to compete as much. It really doesn't matter how it leaked, or if it's just one big rumor, but INEOS haven't denied the claim publicly, and they said one thing to the public about giving a manager time, such as Arteta, to sacking a manager. So they have done nothing right either.
Klopp is a good manager, but he's delusional. He thinks he's SAF reincarnated and it was quite egregiously obvious that he thought he would bow out in similar fashion after his announcement. The truth is that none of the 4 man short-list are terribly exciting bar McKenna, who is a Championship manager. Ten Hag should not have been walked to the gallows before the end of the season for any of these men.
This is far too reasonable and logical for this subreddit. But I agree, pretty grim behaviour from the club hierarchy if this is true and the decision has already been made. Meet the new owners: same as the old owners.
Hopefully players will feel bad for him and play their hearts out to give him the trophy
I actually think that this could work somehow. Despite all the shit we've been through this season, it's been obvious that this squad didn't have any problem with the manager. Therefore, they may end putting up a good fight if they think it's going to be his last match here.
Who is that snake that leaked it
If they are not going to sack him, the club has to come out with a statement ASAP. Writing's on the wall, though. It really does feel like he's being replaced. What an awful conclusion to this season.
They already told the [BBC that nothing's changed](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c033gxr2w7lo) - Erik's future will be decided post-season.
No chance they’ll back themselves into that corner.
They also wouldn’t make a statement lol they’d just tell the manager.
What for? There is zero reason to engage on media gossip. What statement can they say? The only statement would give to pick up his +1 option, and since he is getting sacked why would they?
Ffs I’m depressed
Just wait it can get worse
Winter bang on here
I love his takes, always some nuance to his reporting and he doesn't shy away from adding some emotion as a fan himself.
I mean, Journalists leaked it (if true).... For all we know it's a bullshit story.
I'd have liked him to have said specifically that it's shit of Steinberg for this. Is this in the public interest? No. Thats someone's job and Steinberg is acting like a red top hack. Just wait for him to talk about having a 'duty' as if he's reporting in a war.
He’s not going to criticise a journalist for doing their job. He’s a reporter breaking a story. It’s literally his job.
You can barely call these people like Steinberg journalists.
But this is my point. They are sports.writers not serious journalists and I think the world would be better if they could remember that.
That is not how it works lol. They’re journalists no matter how serious you think they are. If anything the meaningless of football makes it more understandable to break news.
They’re journalists but you can have a bit of decorum. They’re some serious unscrupulous journalists out there. I hope karma bites their head off.
People in this sub bashing EtH continuously and putting all the blame for a shit season on him are getting on my nerves. This shit season isn’t just about or because of the manager.
ABUS in the journo class. Funny how they fall all over themselves over Citeh and barely mention the 115 but on the eve of a the Cup final, they stir up drama. I think it’s ETH’s last match win or lose but fucking hell do miss David Gill. We had such better message discipline back then.
The problem is that the context is sort forever expanding. When he had a fit and firing squad (mostly), he finished 2nd and won a trophy. With an injury hit season and players way off form, we finished 8th. Can argue for and against the nuance behind everything, but mostly it’s just a shame that another manager comes in and leaves after 18 months or so.
We've been in bad form since March 2023 post that Rashford purple patch. Enough of this revisionism. Ten Hag's made the worst out of a crappy situation. Yes, we've sacked and hired wrong managers in the past. No, that doesn't justify keeping him.
Unfortunately, he compounded the issues with our injuries by forcing the team to play an expansive system that was reliant on a level of organisation, discipline and athleticism that our available players just don't demonstrate. I've been saying for a while now that, if he is sacked, there are so many things he could have done to avoid it that he refused to do.
I will be agreeing with you if this is the same person who hired and fired him. But to be fair to Ineos, they have every right to bring in a new manager who they think is the right person to bring the club forward. If Ineos is hiring and firing the new manager in 2 seasons, then yes Ineos deserved some criticism
Such a garbage club. What happened to us.
Well he looks significantly different to his Twitter avatar
Journalist force information out and then parade around calling it a disgrace that they were able to do that? Especially when it was from a different party? You guys wanted dirt and you found dirt.
If they really cared they wouldn't have run with the stories and caused the public humiliation.
This is a classic damn if you do / damn if you don't situation. What if the next manager fails? INEOS will be criticised saying that ETH could have done better with more time. What if things don't get better under ETH? INEOS will be criticised saying that ETH should have been sacked after his awful season. Both sides are correct. There is no simple answer, and I guess the new board just decided to do everything their way.
r/reddevils: 'I trust INEOS to make the right decisions, they may make tough calls but they have more knowledge of what's happening inside the club and they won't be swayed by reactionary fans' INEOS: give Ten Hag the entire season, internally audit the club, at the end of it decide to sack him r/reddevils: *shocked Pikachu face*
Letting him see his contract out is such a no-brainer **safe** decision for them. Just start working on the backroom staff and squad with their game model vision for recruitment this summer. If he's still shit next season with new players and fewer injuries then he's already out of contract and they can just say we gave him a chance, thank you bye-bye you were an old hire and we want to bring in our own man in now, after having already spent a year at the club to get their own systems in place. If he somehow turns it around then you haven't goofed up and you have more stability and continuity on the project. Instead if you sack him and bring **your guy** everything that goes wrong from here on out is **your fault** and if the next guy is shit and they have to sack him after a year or two then they're just Glazers 2.0 to the Fandom and they've lost all the good will their PR team worked so hard for. Just look at Chelsea. We'll basically turn into that except with way lower investment. It's such a gamble from INEOS when they can easily have a whole year free trial and a easy exit if things go wrong.
If they genuinely thinks that ETH is not fit for the job and they have one or several managers they think would do a better job, why would they keep him? Number one priority for an owner should be how can they improve the performance of the club not the optics
You’re spot on. This is a no lose situation for them.
No matter what. Respect for ETH
Mahn this is fucking shit. ETH deserves another season.
2 things could be true: - He doesn't deserve to be treated like that. - He doesn't deserve another season.
This sub’s defence of ETH despite being shit for over a year is fascinating to me at this stage
Some fans of the club still support the manager. Does that really shock you that much? That people have a different opinion on the football team they support.
To be clear, the matchgoing fans also express support for him numerous times towards the end of this season. It’s more fascinating to me that we have online fans that are totally disconnected from the match going fans.
> It’s more fascinating to me that we have online fans that are totally disconnected from the match going fans. Not really shocking tho, is it?
Because our alternatives are a mid table PL manager, a manager who is at best a side grade and has been sacked by Chelsea, a manager who has only managed in the championship or Tuchel who is a bit of a wildcard.
choice is clear for me then. Thomas Tuchel. Dont even know how we can consider others. I mean just listening to what you say makes it so clear. Yeah Tuchel is not a guarantee for success, but damn, who ever is? The guy is certainly a top 5 manager in terms of tactical knowledge and a cup competition monster. Would take him every single day over the others
It's honestly a bit mental. I feel that West Ham fans hold their manager to a higher standard than this.
Moyes literally won them a European Cup and their fans were unhinged when calling for him leaving all of this season.
Sacked Moyes after finishing 9th and previously winning their first ever European trophy for playing shit football, terrible defensive metrics, and poor underlying numbers. Can’t say their standards haven’t rose
I understand the fatigue of manager roulette but ineos have every right to bring in whoever they think can do the job. Ten hag did no favors to convince them with that horrendous season. Tired of the injuries excuse too. Chelsea and newcastle finished higher with much worse squad deficiencies. Injuries doesn't explain why we cant score against brentford and burnley
I didn’t gather statistics obviously, but it feels like 50/50 when I go through comments
When the new manager wins the league next season with half the starters injured and Johnny Evans and Kambwala at cb then people will understand. Then you probably think those two will be good enough to win the CL the year after?
I feel like many, including myself, think it's a shame he didn't get a shot while having the proper structure around him, which INEOS are now starting to put into place - but all the same I agree that the situation is too bad for him to continue and his position is basically untenable. Even with the injuries, he hasn't shown that he has enough innovation or ingenuity to adapt. He's making the same mistakes with team selection and strategy that he was in late 2023.
Does he? I think all of this stuff swirling around about his future is distasteful but has he really earned another season? We've been horrendously shit this season, and there's been no sign of improvement.
There are mitigating factors. I want you to tell me with a straight face that this squad is capable of anything more than top 4. Then, I want you to factor in 60-70 whatever injuries and tell me what this already top 4 squad looks like and where it should be finishing under such circumstances. You look at this season, and I'll look at the season before. Players were fit, Old Trafford was an absolute fortress and had the best home record in a long time. We finished 3rd. Won a cup. Went into another cup final. On the balance of both seasons, and understanding the context, yes I do think he deserves a third season. And it helps INEOS and the new board to settle down and see if things improve. If they don't, sack him with little to no compensation.
There were mitigating factors, but Ten Hag made things so much worse for himself in stubbornly sticking to his tactical system even though it was clear that it wasn't working. And we saw precious little sign that he was successfully coaching the players to operate better in it. How many times did we need to see the opposition running free in a wide open midfield before he changed the setup? It was never going to work, and everyone could see that. Our players never looked like they knew how to press in an organised fashion, and it was Ten Hag's job to either teach them to or to not ask them to do what they couldn't do.
Aston Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle have all had massive injuries this season. All finished above us.
Aston Villa have overperformed and haven't had nearly as many injury concerns in key areas. Their main players have all been on form and available for the entire season. Meanwhile we haven't had a left back for the entire season and up until the last game we didn't have a single CB. Newcastle and Chelsea have fallen off massively and only finished a couple points above us. 60 or 63 points does it really matter?
Deeper squads. Ours is paper thin. Aging squad and I genuinely think our players are too low IQ and lack fitness for EtH and they'd be too low IQ for any other manager. He will go to another team and kill it; win leagues and trophies. We'll trundle along with INEOS praying.
Most of our worst players are players that he signed.
Like who?
I'm not saying this based on the fact we finished 8th, which is shit anyway. I'm saying it based on the fact that basically every side in the league has outplayed us at least once this season. That is nowhere near fucking good enough, regardless of the mitigating factors.
Yes, but that is where injuries have played their part. We still don't have a left back. We have barely had a fit CB, let alone a reliable back four. Our best players from last season are out of form. Look, could Ten Hag have been more pragmatic and ditched his philosophy to survive? Maybe so, but at the same time these are growing pains of a team that is nowhere near the finished article. Rather keep the progress growing by making the players who are available to adapt, rather than wasting a season just surviving.
This is all well and good but everything I've seen this season leads me to think that sticking with Ten Hag would be the real waste of time because he has shown absolutely nothing at all to give me belief that the team will progress under him. We have been, again, completely shit this season. There are next to no positive things I have to say about our performances on the pitch. No improvement has been made throughout the course of the season; we were shite in the first match against Wolves and we've been just as shite ever since. Injuries have played a massive part, yes, but can anybody tell me with a straight face that our tactics simply could not be better than they currently are? The players always look lost, there are always huge gaps in midfield, we're constantly conceding north of 20 shots per game, we don't create enough. So what is it that is supposed to be giving me hope here? You're asking me to put my faith in Ten Hag - what has he done to earn it?
By having a great 1st season. He can obviously do something with this club, as he proved it then. Yes this season was shit, but in sir Alex's first few seasons he had an 11th and a 13th place finish. Sometimes sticking is better, even if it doesn't look like it at the time
Home record good last season. Away record has been shit for two years. How do we still not have an away win against a top 8-9 team in the league? It’s insanity how bad we are at away games, 0 signs of improvement by ETH either.
If we’re sacking managers after 2 years - one bad season, 1 trophy and 2 cup finals, then I don’t know how we’re going to get back to the top. Fans are looking for divine intervention that is gonna get us back to the top without bumps in the road along the way
The decision ultimately has nothing to do with fans. The club have conducted an audit and seemingly come to the conclusion that ten hag isn't the man to lead us forward for reasons they're likely more privy to.
This isn't just a "bad" season, though. We've been fucking catastrophic, and the FA Cup doesn't change that. I'm all for giving managers time when they do something to earn it but nobody can actually give me anything that Ten Hag has done to merit that time. As I say, everything this season points to a major regression, and it's not as though we've been getting any better in the latter half. If there are signs of encouragement on the pitch then I'm all for being patient but I've seen absolutely none.
Do you know the league position when sir Alex won his 1st cup? 13th. We finished 13th and won the cup. Look what happened after that. You have to allow a few shit seasons unfortunately for the manager to settle in fully. We can't keep going as we are otherwise it will be the same in 2 years time, but we will be wishing we didn't sack eth
100% agreed, sadly, these times are mostly gone. Life is too fast nowadays, noone has patience anymore, and it does reflect in football as well. Everything is so reactionary, three bad games and everythign else is forgotten. A big big shame. Sacking ETH is in my opinion worse than ALL the other sackings before at this club. He may not be the guy but my god we so desperately needed to fix other things at the club first.
i’m going to be glib for a second, but we’re facing down the prospect of firing a manager who got top four, a cup (possibly 2), and 3 cup finals in two seasons for a guy who has never managed a top flight match. this could turn out to be a masterstroke, but it could also look *really* bad in a few years time.
do you think we'll even bother with a clear-out of the squad players who have failed multiple managers already, or more of the same then under a new name hoping he gets the best out of them this time? United doesn't want to face the fact a lot of our players, the young lads aside, just aren't just good enough.
I'm not suggesting that we stick with the same squad next season, I'm suggesting we should get rid of both a number of players and the manager.
> United doesn't want to face the fact a lot of our players, the young lads aside, just aren't just good enough. I don't get this take? They've literally put out that virtually every one of our players is for sale. We haven't been giving out contract renewals or triggering contract extension options we have (Varane, for example) like we used to. It isn't possible to shift 10+ players in a single window but aside from a few youngsters and Bruno, it seems we have everyone else up for a potential sale.
>it isn’t possible to shift 10+ players in a single window This. However, the slight blessing in disguise by missing Europe this season would be that we don’t have to worry about meeting the UEFA homegrown quota lol and we would be a bit more free to clear out some dead weight.
Eh, the PL has a similar homegrown quota so its not like how we approach it is much different. What might be the blessing is we can spend more than if we were in the UECL because we don't have to meet the UECL's FFP rules.
Isn’t the PL rule just that at least 8/25 must be trained at an English club, whereas the UEFA one is that 4 of those also needs to be “true homegrown” raised within our organization? I believe we had 5 players meeting the UEFA criteria going into this season (Evans, Rashford, McTominay, Shaw and Heaton), and another 4 that met the PL requirement (AWB, Sancho, Maguire and Mount). And that doesn’t include Brandon Williams and Hannibal, who are out on loan. I’m also not sure if Amad would qualify, given that he was loaned out to Scotland for a bit. So while it won’t allow us to go crazy, it would give us more freedom in the sense that we could increase non-United but FA trained players and decrease United trained players.
Technically, the PL one is a max of 18 non-home grown players which is basically the same thing. We have a bunch of recent grads that we could register in the Home Grown Club spots (like Garnacho, Mainoo, Kambawala) if we needed to. They've all been here over 3 years, though they're not 21 so you don't *need* to register them if you don't have to.
I mean, he didn't cause players to throw away Brentford, Chelsea then Liverpool within a week. What was that, 8 points lost in 3 games? that's literally the difference between having a go at top 4 or not, since Villa finished 8 points above.
The players didn’t throw those games. We got absolutely battered in those games and were fortunate to get anything in them. Brentford dominated us and should have scored 3/4 goals.
> he didn't cause players to throw away Brentford, Chelsea then Liverpool within a week By that same logic he didn't cause players to take the lead against Brentford in stoppage time, come back from 2-0 down to lead 3-2 at Chelsea, and score 2 wonder goals against Liverpool to come back from 1-0 down either.
Throwing games away has been the theme for the whole season. We were battered against Liverpool and Brentford all game. Chelsea we conceded two simple goals early on. Funny how when the players actually fought back in those game the coach get the credit but when there are defensive howlers its on the players not on how the coach set his team up to just inviting pressure.
He doesn’t deserve another season. Tbh he’s lucky that he survived that UCL clusterfuck. Any other major club would have canned him after that.
I was ready to give him a chance for most of the season but if I was Ratcliffe I'd have climbed down from the stands during the last 10 minutes of the Coventry debacle and called him an Uber.
he does
Entirely disagree. You cannot have the worst league performance since 1990 and "deserve" another season. He doesn't deserve this kind of media circus, though it doesn't seem like it is the club doing this at all, just like how LVG didn't deserve the treatment he got on his last days.
Lol he absolutely doesn’t “deserve” another season, if we had kept him on it would have been us taking a massive gamble on a manager who’s shown nothing in the last 15 months that he’s got the ability to right the ship
Why does he deserve another season give me a good reason please
He absolutely does not deserve another season.
Utter failure by the club. Ineos seem no better than the glazers. All to hire an inexperienced manager who was run out of the club previously. These players will turn on him again. Just a disgrace all around.
You think the club leaked this?
The British footballing media are absolutely fucking scumbags, constantly trying to push their narrative into becoming reality. They’ve been so painfully anti ETH from day one. We need to give this man another season under an ownership with proper structure and people who know their shit rather than what we’ve had for the last decade or so.
I don’t even care if you’re ETH in or ETH out - we are embarrassing as a club. We used to be one of the best run clubs in the world. Now, a day before (probably) our biggest game in 2 years, leaks are coming out and causing more drama. From what I see, the players are still backing the manager. The last few managers lost the dressing room, but there hasn’t been much coming out from the players side where they’re trying to push the manager out. We had SOME sort of unity in the dressing room before a final, and now we’re in shambles again. We couldn’t wait till Monday? Ten Hag has been disappointing this season, but my fear is that we’re going to get a new manager, keep the problematic players, and the cycle will continue. What are we going to do in 2 years when we start getting bad results again? Are we going to be in limbo for 10 more years? This is a project - whether or not ETH is the right man for that, that’s debatable. But I just want to give ONE manager more than 2 years to finish a project. I’d be happy to sack him if there were fantastic managers available, but McKenna has zero prem experience. I’ll support anyone we bring in, but I’m hoping we make the correct decision.
All things aside - Where's the Duty of care (mental health) for Erik? , I'd sue Man Utd for that coming out and having to be subjected to that because he's right "Your getting sacked in the morning will be sung all game". Ineos are Ametuers. Wheres is the class?
He must know
Agree with Winter that it’s probably the right decision but the timing is horrid. Ultimately, I think it’s because we’re also talking to McKenna and Chelsea leak the news. But come on, we cannot continue with a stubborn manager who cannot change his tactics like this. A manager who cannot control game, who allows us to be so open throughout this season. Who allow 7-0, 6-3 to happen even in the “good” season. Yes the players are also to a very large extent to blame but comeon great manager, a truly UNITED will know a way through that doesn’t involve the humiliations we went through with ETH. I do hope he gets the FA Cup win to send off though, both on a human and club level.
This is disgusting
3-0 loss to 115 charge FC incoming
Erik was just too stubborn of a coach. Should’ve benched Rashford way earlier and shoul’ve ditched his ridiculous single pivot dm system after the wolves fiasco
I wonder if Chelsea know poch is going to utd and heard through the grapevine about eth and maybe tipped off the journo in spite if it's true the journo is a Chelsea fan
Obviously the leak which never happened before 24 hours ago, happened because it was from inside the club and from individuals who were extremely against the decision to sack the current manager and decided to leak it to media. This implies that it is highly possible that sacking him would be a very unpopular decision internally. Don’t forget that there was also a leaked team line up for the FA cup final floating around. Clearly the club is in chaos because of this decision made by the owners (INEOS or glazers or both).
I don’t understand your logic here - why is it obvious it came from inside the club by people against the decision?
Your claim is abit stretched and frankly out of your ass.
Who is there internally to be against the decision? Everyone in power has been replaced. There’s a whole new structure incoming.
General consensus seems to be that it's coming from the Chelsea journos, who are being briefed by agents / Chelsea that the candidates that Chelsea are speaking to, are also speaking to us. Shameful that it's come out this way for sure, however some solace in the fact it's seemingly not coming from our side
I wonder if we will get players gloating that Hag got sacked… pogba style…. It’s a big win for Sancho anyway
Very good take
Glazers out!
People seriously need to get over the idea that the club leaked this story. They so obviously didn't and wouldn't. It's tabloid speculation based on fairly obvious assumptions. It may well turn out to be true but that does not mean for a moment that the club has been feeding them this info.
I reckon an agency has leaked it, we have obviously been speaking to agents of managers which we have had no choice as the Brighton and Chelsea moves have forced our hand - once we did this third parties become involved and it goes out of our hands.
What a fuckin circus show this has become
The amount of articles written is beyond a joke now
Our players absolutely blow, and have for over a decade. Dude doesn’t deserve any of this shit- neither did the previous coaches, except for Moyes perhaps.
Makes the club look weak and gives strength to narratives of players like Sancho, Cr9, lingard etc
He should be sacked, but the manner of it is unacceptable and unbecoming of our name. Not cool.
Fucking leeches all these journos are. Same with these knobhead social media clowns like Goldbridge. If I were sir Jim I’d be sending cease and desist letters to them all and making it the summer goal to weed out this entire squad. Play the U 18 squad who won their league with the few good players left in this squad and do a proper from the ground up rebuild. The toxicity has run deep into the ground. Fucking level it all and start over
It’s shit on EtH. How fucking difficult is it to just wait another week. It undermines the manager ahead of the final. New ownership, same old bollocks.
Even with Ineos taking over the football side of things, the rot and lack of respect is still here. What a pathetic way to go into a final.
Regardless of whether you think Ten Hag has been a good or bad manager, to be put through the wringer like this so publicly is not something any manager deserves. United needs to keep a better lid on this shit and UK sports media needs to develop some fucking class and respect. Shit stirring parasites.
This fkin club is absolutely shameful, total embarrassment yet again.
Being let go after underperforming at your job isn't a public humiliation. He will get his millions, lead out the team in a cup final, and may yet win a trophy before he goes. He's a relatively young coach, he's handled himself well on a personal level, I'm sure he will have no problem finding a new job at a big club in a few years (or a slightly less big club to rebuild his reputation). Also don't understand how fans can be spending all season saying we should "clear out the deadwood" and bin this player or sell that player but as soon as the manager's future is up for debate everyone is clutching their pearls?! This is Manchester United. You finished 8th and arguably that was an overachievement considering how badly the team played. I'm sure he's known for a while that he's done. To those who want Ten Hag to stay: I'm honestly sorry that you feel that way..but ask yourself if you are wanting him to stay because you believe he will come good, or just because you are tired of the managerial merry-go-round or don't want to be proven wrong after advocating for his hiring 2 years ago. If its the latter two things, then those are not good reasons to hang onto someone who is doing a bad job.
What an embarrassment this club is.
The Guardian is an activist paper, not a newspaper. Know the difference, people!